Here's my message to all of the Eve veterans who might have their heads stuck in the Eve fishbowl:

Dust 514 and Eve cannot be compared and cannot be held to the same standards.

I know.. your eyes started twitching, your face is red, and your neck started itching a little. I'll explain:

Eve Online, from what I understand is some no-holds-barred free for all MMO, with a deep economy and faction system. From what I've seen in videos, combat looks like a ship sitting still in space while a bunch of laser fly around. Basically, Eve Online is a unique and quirky MMO that has the distinct luxury of being held by it's own standard.

Now that CCP has created Dust 514, that luxury is gone.

When CCP created Dust 514, they stepped into the largest, highest earning, and most competitive genre in all of gaming: first-person shooter games. And whether they like it or not, their game is held to that standard. Gone is the unique privilege of playing by your own rules and expecting everyone to accept it. Economy, loot tables, skill systems, planetary conquest, faction warfare and all other things are secondary in priority to gameplay control, game balance, and accessibility of new players. And if you think I'm dead wrong about not being held to your own standard, let me remind you who decides. Here's a hint: It's not you.

This game will live or die by the experience of players within the first 30-45 minutes of playing.

I'm an incredibly patient gamer, which is why I'm still here. (400-lap races in Gran Turismo, anyone?) Unfortunately, most players are not very patient. They know that Dust 514 is an FPS game before they play it, and they're going to hold it to the standard of other games like Call of Duty and Battlefield the first time they play it whether you like it or not. And frankly, that's their right. Ultimately they have a choice, and they'll choose what's most fun in that moment. After all, video games are an escape from reality so you need to replace reality with something fun and not so tedious. There were many times when I first started playing Dust 514 when I asked myself, "Why am I doing this when I could be playing Battlefield 3 and actually win?"

This is getting too ranty, so I'll cut it short here. Keep in mind that we're competing for the attention of FPS players against the heaviest hitters in the industry. Unless we make sure they have fun from the start, we'll lose them. When choosing the direction of Dust 514, everything takes a back seat to gameplay controls, game balance, and new player accessibility.

No you missed "CoD clone", "Dust is a vision. SOON", "Dust is an MMO not an FPS", "META!!!!!!"

Probably a lot more....Just click on my name and look at my posts...nearly every 3rd of 4th response has something along these lines.

That point only works with the recent FPS community that hold their Call of Duty copies under their pants.

Seriously though that only hits part of the FPS community, I have played plentiful games that require skill (Black on PS2 anyone?) or planning and strategies (Battlefront and old Battlefield games how I miss you <3 )

It is however a relevant point nonetheless, Dust WAS created to break the mould of current kitten "here have your game fed with a spoon" gameplay

Also now comes the big question, what requires more patience, PS2 or Dust?

The only fundamental thing a FPS has to have is good controls, Aiming is one of if not the most important thing in a FPS, and CCP falls kind of short in that aspect. Everything else is great about this game considering the bugs and glitches will get fixed.

No this game does not have to dragged down to the standards of other shooters it can be different.

Let's see. HTFU, welcome to New Eden, adapt or die, QQ more. Did i hit all the standard answers? :)

Basically no. I know, your eye just twitched. First off, Dust does not have to generate COD numbers. It's not even meant to, thus Dust does not have to cater to the bottom feeders like the" big boys ".

Second, Dust needs to be profitable for CCP. That is it. All of the ridiculous speculation about Dust living or dying based on these preconceptions is just irrelevant. As long as CCP finds Dust to be profitable, it will exist. If not, it won't.

Lastly, as an aside, I think CCP know a lot more about what they need to do to make the product that is Dust a success, based on their own terms, than any random forum goers here. Most people on these forums don't know squat about software development, maintenance, marketing, or support, so you're just exposing your ignorance by trying to tell CCP how to succeed. They don't need your (or my)" expert "advice.

HEY! It's been awhile since I've seen a "DUST is bad, DUST is dead" thread! Woo! Go haters, go haters go!

For all you blowhards that somehow know what CCP should do... perhaps you should apply for a job. What? CCP doesn't have a position open for your expertise?

I wonder why.

When CCP created Dust 514, they stepped into the largest, highest earning, and most competitive genre in all of gaming: first-person shooter games.

Gone is the unique privilege of playing by your own rules and expecting everyone to accept it.

And if you think I'm dead wrong about not being held to your own standard, let me remind you who decides. Here's a hint: It's not you.

I'm an incredibly patient gamer, which is why I'm still here. (400-lap races in Gran Turismo, anyone?)

Unfortunately, most players are not very patient.

They know that Dust 514 is an FPS game before they play it, and they're going to hold it to the standard of other games like Call of Duty and Battlefield the first time they play it whether you like it or not. And frankly, that's their right.

Keep in mind that we're competing for the attention of FPS players against the heaviest hitters in the industry. Unless we make sure they have fun from the start, we'll lose them. When choosing the direction of Dust 514, everything takes a back seat to gameplay controls, game balance, and new player accessibility.

It's also entirely their loss. And the game is better for it, to be honest. It's meant to be different, not your ordinary BF3 or COD, whether it rises above or simply stands alone in the sea of generic FPS games that are available, it was never meant to emulate any of them. It is a companion for EVE first, a shooter second.



I tend to find that gamers claim they are looking for something different, but what they are actually looking for is an emulation of something they are good at with different content to make it feel more "new" without actually having to do something new. These are the kind of gamers that DUST can do without, and not something CCP should be sacrificing their vision of the game in order to pander to a gaming audience that can't get over the fact that this shooter is actually different.

It's also entirely their loss. And the game is better for it, to be honest. It's meant to be different, not your ordinary BF3 or COD, whether it rises above or simply stands alone in the sea of generic FPS games that are available, it was never meant to emulate any of them. It is a companion for EVE first, a shooter second.



I tend to find that gamers claim they are looking for something different, but what they are actually looking for is an emulation of something they are good at with different content to make it feel more "new" without actually having to do something new. These are the kind of gamers that DUST can do without, and not something CCP should be sacrificing their vision of the game in order to pander to a gaming audience that can't get over the fact that this shooter is actually different.

I think the point the OP is trying to make is if the game mechanics are not sound then everything else doesn't matter. Take planetary Conquest for example, currently TeamPlayers has been fighting Seraphim Initiative for control of a district however because they are a Euro corp the winner of each match has gone to whoever got the server (SI won on Euro Server, TeamP on U.S.). The framerates regularly drop below 10fps and players are constantly yoyoing across the map. In short, its a terrible shooter experience. Victories are cheapened because they aren't earned from greater strategy or skill, but rather ther region the server is located. Defeat leaves you with a sense of "whats the point? the battles are just a toss up of who gets the server so why put in the effort of corming corporations, farming isk, and taking planets?". In short it's a terrible shooter experience.

If these issue's are not hammered out first then what is the point of owning districts? At it's core Dust is slated to be a very unique and special FPS game, but it's still an FPS.

That is the most hypocritical statement I have ever read.

Huh? WHAT!!!

THIS.

You found the entire point of my topic. An FPS has to have good controls. This is the first priority, and CCP needs to recognize this. Dust 514 will always have the extra stuff and will always be unique, but you've got to nail down the basics or else new players won't stay long enough to enjoy the unique experience that Dust 514 provides.

Then you obviously haven't read much by Ken Ham lately.

It's also entirely their loss. And the game is better for it, to be honest. It's meant to be different, not your ordinary BF3 or COD, whether it rises above or simply stands alone in the sea of generic FPS games that are available, it was never meant to emulate any of them. It is a companion for EVE first, a shooter second.

Matakage, You see these morons dont even get what your saying. If you want good controls and game play your a Cod fanboi. These derps dont relize many of us here hate and dont play Cod or BF. We want a game with all the depth that Dust has to offer. But we also need the game shoot and play well. Dust right now is nowhere near other AAA games.

Go watch the fanfest videos.

Lots of talk about Dust being a "AAA" shooter and an esport.

Also have you played the game? The maps, the vehicles, the FPS mechanics...all of it is near identical to BF3...only with crap controls bad maps and an SP/leveling/grinding system cut and pasted from EvE.

Would you idiots stop making claims that are just no there in the game play.

"CCP has a vision. Yippy!!"

Fine they have a vision...can we actually talk about the actual game we are playing now? or do we have navel gaze forever?

Case in point.

Controls- Aim mechanics

Balance- You will eventually get there, just gotta grind to get proto/complex- everything. PC has balance because everyone is using their best fits. IB and FW- that's reserved for stomping.

Accessibility- How much content is in the game to keep me going.

If none of these matter to the rest of you in dust besides all the bells and whistles, then maybe you shouldn't even be playing dust let alone a FPS. These are the core mechanics that make or break this genre. I really do like what CCP is doing with this game. But if any of these 3 mechanics turn off a CASUAL/HARDCORE FPS player then they will leave not even giving a hoot that there will be improvements.

This whole "debate" thing doesn't work if you don't interpret the words I type correctly. Not once did I say that Dust should produce COD numbers. What I'm saying is that Dust 514 will be held to the standard of CoD and BF3 by reviewers and players alike, whether CCP or any of the veteran players like it or not.
And what I find so amusing is the elitist stance that everyone takes as soon as I point that out. "OH YEAH? WELL WHO NEEDS THEM ANYWAY?" Sorry, but you kinda need new players. And you kinda need good reviews to get new players. If you're gonna get bad reviews and lose players, let's NOT have it be due to poor controls and a poor experience by new players.


Hey, we agree on something! Players and reviewers will hold Dust 514 to the gameplay standard set by CoD and BF3, but the same sales standard? Nobody expects that. I would define success by Dust 514 as "consistent growth." We know Dust 514 is far from being done, so the best goal is to slowly and steadily wedge our niche deeper into the FPS genre over time.


Well now we've touched upon the point of the entire topic: It is indeed the experience of the random player that CCP should value the most. I'm a random player, and a pretty experienced FPS player at that. I also have no experience with EVE whatsoever, so there's another plus. (Yes, it is actually beneficial to look at Dust 514 from an unbiased standpoint.)
And you know what I think is ignorant? People who put game developers on a pedestal. They're humans, they make mistakes, and they work very long hours. Most of them are so deeply focused on a specific task that they start to lose their grasp on the big picture.
Some of us are logical thinkers. Some of us are reasonable and open to suggestions and change. Some of us are leaders. These forums are for sharing your thoughts and bouncing it off other people and I'll do it all I want.