DUST Search - Think Dust 514 can be held to its own standard? Think again.

Matakage wrote:

Buster Friently wrote:

Basically no. I know, your eye just twitched. First off, Dust does not have to generate COD numbers. It's not even meant to, thus Dust does not have to cater to the bottom feeders like the" big boys ".

This whole "debate" thing doesn't work if you don't interpret the words I type correctly. Not once did I say that Dust should produce COD numbers. What I'm saying is that Dust 514 will be held to the standard of CoD and BF3 by reviewers and players alike, whether CCP or any of the veteran players like it or not.
And what I find so amusing is the elitist stance that everyone takes as soon as I point that out. "OH YEAH? WELL WHO NEEDS THEM ANYWAY?" Sorry, but you kinda need new players. And you kinda need good reviews to get new players. If you're gonna get bad reviews and lose players, let's NOT have it be due to poor controls and a poor experience by new players.

Buster Friently wrote:

Second, Dust needs to be profitable for CCP. That is it. All of the ridiculous speculation about Dust living or dying based on these preconceptions is just irrelevant. As long as CCP finds Dust to be profitable, it will exist. If not, it won't.

Hey, we agree on something! Players and reviewers will hold Dust 514 to the gameplay standard set by CoD and BF3, but the same sales standard? Nobody expects that. I would define success by Dust 514 as "consistent growth." We know Dust 514 is far from being done, so the best goal is to slowly and steadily wedge our niche deeper into the FPS genre over time.

Buster Friently wrote:

Lastly, as an aside, I think CCP know a lot more about what they need to do to make the product that is Dust a success, based on their own terms, than any random forum goers here. Most people on these forums don't know squat about software development, maintenance, marketing, or support, so you're just exposing your ignorance by trying to tell CCP how to succeed. They don't need your (or my)" expert "advice.

Well now we've touched upon the point of the entire topic: It is indeed the experience of the random player that CCP should value the most. I'm a random player, and a pretty experienced FPS player at that. I also have no experience with EVE whatsoever, so there's another plus. (Yes, it is actually beneficial to look at Dust 514 from an unbiased standpoint.)
And you know what I think is ignorant? People who put game developers on a pedestal. They're humans, they make mistakes, and they work very long hours. Most of them are so deeply focused on a specific task that they start to lose their grasp on the big picture.
Some of us are logical thinkers. Some of us are reasonable and open to suggestions and change. Some of us are leaders. These forums are for sharing your thoughts and bouncing it off other people and I'll do it all I want.


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Buster Friently Rosen Association 466	Posted - 2013.05.20 20:56:00 - [1] - Quote Matakage wrote: Here's my message to all of the Eve veterans who might have their heads stuck in the Eve fishbowl: Dust 514 and Eve cannot be compared and cannot be held to the same standards. I know.. your eyes started twitching, your face is red, and your neck started itching a little. I'll explain: Eve Online, from what I understand is some no-holds-barred free for all MMO, with a deep economy and faction system. From what I've seen in videos, combat looks like a ship sitting still in space while a bunch of laser fly around. Basically, Eve Online is a unique and quirky MMO that has the distinct luxury of being held by it's own standard. Now that CCP has created Dust 514, that luxury is gone. When CCP created Dust 514, they stepped into the largest, highest earning, and most competitive genre in all of gaming: first-person shooter games. And whether they like it or not, their game is held to that standard. Gone is the unique privilege of playing by your own rules and expecting everyone to accept it. Economy, loot tables, skill systems, planetary conquest, faction warfare and all other things are secondary in priority to gameplay control, game balance, and accessibility of new players. And if you think I'm dead wrong about not being held to your own standard, let me remind you who decides. Here's a hint: It's not you. This game will live or die by the experience of players within the first 30-45 minutes of playing. I'm an incredibly patient gamer, which is why I'm still here. (400-lap races in Gran Turismo, anyone?) Unfortunately, most players are not very patient. They know that Dust 514 is an FPS game before they play it, and they're going to hold it to the standard of other games like Call of Duty and Battlefield the first time they play it whether you like it or not. And frankly, that's their right. Ultimately they have a choice, and they'll choose what's most fun in that moment. After all, video games are an escape from reality so you need to replace reality with something fun and not so tedious. There were many times when I first started playing Dust 514 when I asked myself, "Why am I doing this when I could be playing Battlefield 3 and actually win?" This is getting too ranty, so I'll cut it short here. Keep in mind that we're competing for the attention of FPS players against the heaviest hitters in the industry. Unless we make sure they have fun from the start, we'll lose them. When choosing the direction of Dust 514, everything takes a back seat to gameplay controls, game balance, and new player accessibility. Basically no. I know, your eye just twitched. First off, Dust does not have to generate COD numbers. It's not even meant to, thus Dust does not have to cater to the bottom feeders like the" big boys ". Second, Dust needs to be profitable for CCP. That is it. All of the ridiculous speculation about Dust living or dying based on these preconceptions are just irrelevant. As long as CCP finds Dust to be profitable, it will exist. If not, it won't. Lastly, as an aside, I think CCP knows a lot more about what they need to do to make the product that is Dust a success, based on their own terms, than any random forum goers here. Most people on these forums don't know squat about software development, maintenance, marketing, or support, so you're just exposing your ignorance by trying to tell CCP how to succeed. They don't need your (or my)" expert "advice.
Buster Friently Rosen Association 466	Posted - 2013.05.20 23:03:00 - [2] - Quote Matakage wrote: Buster Friently wrote: Basically no. I know, your eye just twitched. First off, Dust does not have to generate COD numbers. It's not even meant to, thus Dust does not have to cater to the bottom feeders like the" big boys ". This whole "debate" thing doesn't work if you don't interpret the words I type correctly. Not once did I say that Dust should produce COD numbers. What I'm saying is that Dust 514 will be held to the standard of CoD and BF3 by reviewers and players alike, whether CCP or any of the veteran players like it or not. And what I find so amusing is the elitist stance that everyone takes as soon as I point that out. "OH YEAH? WELL WHO NEEDS THEM ANYWAY?" Sorry, but you kinda need new players. And you kinda need good reviews to get new players. If you're gonna get bad reviews and lose players, let's NOT have it be due to poor controls and a poor experience by new players. Buster Friently wrote: Second, Dust needs to be profitable for CCP. That is it. All of the ridiculous speculation about Dust living or dying based on these preconceptions is just irrelevant. As long as CCP finds Dust to be profitable, it will exist. If not, it won't. Hey, we agree on something! Players and reviewers will hold Dust 514 to the gameplay standard set by CoD and BF3, but the same sales standard? Nobody expects that. I would define success by Dust 514 as "consistent growth." We know Dust 514 is far from being done, so the best goal is to slowly and steadily wedge our niche deeper into the FPS genre over time. Buster Friently wrote: Lastly, as an aside, I think CCP know a lot more about what they need to do to make the product that is Dust a success, based on their own terms, than any random forum goers here. Most people on these forums don't know squat about software development, maintenance, marketing, or support, so you're just exposing your ignorance by trying to tell CCP how to succeed. They don't need your (or my)" expert "advice. Well now we've touched upon the point of the entire topic: It is indeed the experience of the random player that CCP should value the most. I'm a random player, and a pretty experienced FPS player at that. I also have no experience with EVE whatsoever, so there's another plus. (Yes, it is actually beneficial to look at Dust 514 from an unbiased standpoint.) And you know what I think is ignorant? People who put game developers on a pedestal. They're humans, they make mistakes, and they work very long hours. Most of them are so deeply focused on a specific task that they start to lose their grasp on the big picture. Some of us are logical thinkers. Some of us are reasonable and open to suggestions and change. Some of us are leaders. These forums are for sharing your thoughts and bouncing it off other people and I'll do it all I want. Let's just agree to disagree. I'm not putting anyone on a pedestal, but I'm not going to try to tell a group of professionals how to do their job when I know none of the details. Also, you are suggesting that CCP cater to the CoD fanboys by suggesting that CCP make the game the" randoms " expect. CCP can cater to a minority and still be profitable. They don't need COD numbers. Take movies as an analogue, CCP might be making the equivalent of an indie cerebral action flick. It might not have big name actors, and it might have relatively poor special effects, but assuming enough people buy tickets, the movie will make back what it cost, plus some profit. This is Dust. It's different. It's not meant to attract everyone. Stop trying to measure it's success or failure based on this metric. It's not relevant.