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Think Dust 514 can be held to its own standard? Think again.

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Matakage WildCard Ninja Clan 82	Posted - 2013.05.20 17:10:00 - [1] - Quote Here's my message to all of the Eve veterans who might have their heads stuck in the Eve fishbowl: Dust 514 and Eve cannot be compared and cannot be held to the same standards. I know.. your eyes started twitching, your face is red, and your neck started itching a little. I'll explain: Eve Online, from what I understand is some no-holds-barred free for all MMO, with a deep economy and faction system. From what I've seen in videos, combat looks like a ship sitting still in space while a bunch of laser fly around. Basically, Eve Online is a unique and quirky MMO that has the distinct luxury of being held by it's own standard. Now that CCP has created Dust 514, that luxury is gone. When CCP created Dust 514, they stepped into the largest, highest earning, and most competitive genre in all of gaming: first-person shooter games. And whether they like it or not, their game is held to that standard. Gone is the unique privilege of playing by your own rules and expecting everyone to accept it. Economy, loot tables, skill systems, planetary conquest, faction warfare and all other things are secondary in priority to gameplay control, game balance, and accessibility of new players. And if you think I'm dead wrong about not being held to your own standard, let me remind you who decides. Here's a hint: It's not you. This game will live or die by the experience of players within the first 30-45 minutes of playing. I'm an incredibly patient gamer, which is why I'm still here. (400-lap races in Gran Turismo, anyone?) Unfortunately, most players are not very patient. They know that Dust 514 is an FPS game before they play it, and they're going to hold it to the standard of other games like Call of Duty and Battlefield the first time they play it whether you like it or not. And frankly, that's their right. Ultimately they have a choice, and they'll choose what's most fun in that moment. After all, video games are an escape from reality so you need to replace reality with something fun and not so tedious. There were many times when I first started playing Dust 514 when I asked myself, "Why am I doing this when I could be playing Battlefield 3 and actually win?" This is getting too ranty, so I'll cut it short here. Keep in mind that we're competing for the attention of FPS players against the heaviest hitters in the industry. Unless we make sure they have fun from the start, we'll lose them. When choosing the direction of Dust 514, everything takes a back seat to gameplay controls, game balance, and new player accessibility.
Matakage WildCard Ninja Clan 86	Posted - 2013.05.20 17:33:00 - [2] - Quote Rorschach Mustang wrote: Let's see. HTFU, welcome to New Eden, adapt or die, QQ more. Did i hit all the standard answers? :) haha, yes you did
Matakage WildCard Ninja Clan 86	Posted - 2013.05.20 17:34:00 - [3] - Quote Raizor Feddie wrote: HEY! It's been awhile since I've seen a "DUST is bad, DUST is dead" thread! Woo! Go haters, go haters go! Sorry, but your wait for that type of thread will have to continue. The point of the thread was to highlight that the standard FPS elements of Dust 514 should remain the highest priority as the game develops.
Matakage WildCard Ninja Clan 90	Posted - 2013.05.20 17:57:00 - [4] - Quote Cpt Murd0ck wrote: No this game does not have to dragged down to the standards of other shooters it can be different. When you neglect the standards by which the common player holds all FPS games, you do so to your own detriment. This is a business -- you don't get to just make the game you want and ignore gameplay and accessibility of new players.
Matakage WildCard Ninja Clan 94	Posted - 2013.05.20 18:00:00 - [5] - Quote Arthur Uthyrsson wrote: Quote: Unfortunately, most players are not very patient. They know that Dust 514 is an FPS game before they play it, and they're going to hold it to the standard of other games like Call of Duty and Battlefield the first time they play it whether you like it or not. And frankly, that's their right. Ultimately they have a choice, and they'll choose what's most fun in that moment. After all, video games are an escape from reality so you need to replace reality with something fun and not so tedious. I'm down with that. Completely. I'm quite happy not having yappy bored QQ gamers playing alongside me. I like folks who can play the long game. I hate FPS games. I love DUST. 'Nuff said. You're a unique guy, and if CCP wants to cater to the minority they can do that. I just wanted to highlight that while Dust 514 is indeed a niche FPS experience, the average player who downloads it on PSN is not going to give it extra credit for that. Appealing the masses is important, but only in certain ways: DO make your game easy to control and fun for new players. DO NOT dumb down the skill point / player progression system.
Matakage WildCard Ninja Clan 94	Posted - 2013.05.20 18:01:00 - [6] - Quote SoTa ReGnUM PoP wrote: The OP is half right and half wrong. While DUST514 is indeed an FPS - it's one that offers a huge universe of 10 years worth of meta. While game mechanics SHOULD TAKE PRIORITY OVER META, it's the meta that will keep people here. You can shoot a gun at anyone in any FPS - but will shooting that person lead to an entire planet being conquered? You won't find that experience anywhere else. EVE tards are taking there way of things too far and will ultimately be despised by the FPS community. Which will lead DUST down the same road EVE did - which is not what CCP wants, and nothing any of us says seems to help these guys understand that. If DUST has 100+ planets eventually with thousands of districts... but the population is only 4,000 at any given time... then we have a lot of empty spaces that will never be filled - why? Because EVE wants there way which harms the player experience. Thanks, I appreciate the feedback.
Matakage WildCard Ninja Clan 94	Posted - 2013.05.20 18:04:00 - [7] - Quote Malkai Inos wrote: Different people have different interests. Dust caters to those that are not satisfied by what the current market offers. Just like eve has survived not in spite but because it made things very different then the rest. There's more than the generic FPS shooter fan and CCP knows this. It doesn't matter how unique your game is if the core gameplay mechanics handle worse than the current FPS market champions, or if it doesn't offer enjoyment to new players. The game should definitely be unique, but as the game progresses, the first priority should be gameplay and accessibility for new players.
Matakage WildCard Ninja Clan 96	Posted - 2013.05.20 18:07:00 - [8] - Quote I keep throwing out that term accessibility for new players, so I should probably be explicit in my definition of it: Accessibility for new players means that the player feels as though they have a viable character build from the start. And no, this doesn't mean that the player has to do well. - When a new player has his first match, does horribly, but experiences a few shining moments where he sees potential for improvement, you have succeeded. - When a player has his first match, does horribly, and sees no hope for advancement other than tedious grinding you have failed.
Matakage WildCard Ninja Clan 96	Posted - 2013.05.20 18:16:00 - [9] - Quote Raizor Feddie wrote: Matakage wrote: Malkai Inos wrote: Different people have different interests. Dust caters to those that are not satisfied by what the current market offers. Just like eve has survived not in spite but because it made things very different then the rest. There's more than the generic FPS shooter fan and CCP knows this. It doesn't matter how unique your game is if the core gameplay mechanics handle worse than the current FPS market champions, or if it doesn't offer enjoyment to new players. The game should definitely be unique, but as the game progresses, the first priority should be gameplay and accessibility for new players. Well OBVIOUSLY what OP is saying is...Make it CoD in space and you'll succeed I really hope that's sarcasm...
Matakage WildCard Ninja Clan 96	Posted - 2013.05.20 18:17:00 - [10] - Quote Eskel Bondfree wrote: Matakage wrote: There were many times when I first started playing Dust 514 when I asked myself, "Why am I doing this when I could be playing Battlefield 3 and actually win?" Well, answer that question, and you found one of the reasons why Dust has a right to exist the way CCP has made it. If CCP wanted to make another Battlefield or Call of Duty, they would have done it. And of course they would have failed, which is why they didn't do it in the first place. I'll repeat myself yet again: Prioritize gameplay mechanics, balance, and ease of new player accessibility over the uniqueness of Dust 514, because those first 3 elements are being held to the standard of popular FPS games by potential players -- NOT the uniquess of Dust 514.

Matakage WildCard Ninja Clan 116	Posted - 2013.05.20 21:04:00 - [11] - Quote SERPENT-Adamapple wrote: The only fundamental thing a FPS has to have is good controls, Aiming is one of if not the most important thing in a FPS, and CCP falls kind of short in that aspect. Everything else is great about this game considering the bugs and glitches will get fixed. THIS. You found the entire point of my topic. An FPS has to have good controls. This is the first priority, and CCP needs to recognize this. Dust 514 will always have the extra stuff and will always be unique, but you've got to nail down the basics or else new players won't stay long enough to enjoy the unique experience that Dust 514 provides.
Matakage WildCard Ninja Clan 118	Posted - 2013.05.20 21:15:00 - [12] - Quote Buster Friently wrote: Basically no. I know, your eye just twitched. First off, Dust does not have to generate COD numbers. It's not even meant to, thus Dust does not have to cater to the bottom feeders like the" big boys ". This whole "debate" thing doesn't work if you don't interpret the words I type correctly. Not once did I say that Dust should produce COD numbers. What I'm saying is that Dust 514 will be held to the standard of CoD and BF3 by reviewers and players alike, whether CCP or any of the veteran players like it or not. Buster Friently wrote: Second, Dust needs to be profitable for CCP. That is it. All of the ridiculous speculation about Dust living or dying based on these preconceptions is just irrelevant. As long as CCP finds Dust to be profitable, it will exist. If not, it won't. Hey, we agree on something! Players and reviewers will hold Dust 514 to the gameplay standard set by CoD and BF3, but the same sales standard? Nobody expects that. I would define success by Dust 514 as "consistent growth." We know Dust 514 is far from being done, so the best goal is to slowly and steadily wedge our niche deeper into the FPS genre over time. Buster Friently wrote: Lastly, as an aside, I think CCP know a lot more about what they need to do to make the product that is Dust a success, based on their own terms, than any random forum goers here. Most people on these forums don't know squat about software development, maintenance, marketing, or support, so you're just exposing your ignorance by trying to tell CCP how to succeed. They don't need your (or my)" expert "advice. Well now we've touched upon the point of the entire topic: It is indeed the experience of the random player that CCP should value the most. I'm a random player, and a pretty experienced FPS player at that. I also have no experience with EVE whatsoever, so there's another plus. (Yes, it is actually beneficial to look at Dust 514 from an unbiased standpoint.) And you know what I think is ignorant? People who put game developers on a pedestal. They're humans, they make mistakes, and they work very long hours. Most of them are so deeply focused on a specific task that they start to lose their grasp on the big picture. Some of us are logical thinkers. Some of us are reasonable and open to suggestions and change. Some of us are leaders. These forums are for sharing your thoughts and bouncing it off other people and I'll do it all I want.

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