The Amarr bonus is a bit beefy but we can deal with that at a later date if there are even any real issues.

I've been a logi since I started as well and I disagree that there is only one bad apple. They are all bad apples. A logi doesn't need 4 highs and 4 lows or any variation of that many mod slots. They are supposed to be the equipment guys. As it stands now we get the best of everything. Good base health (only about 30 less than assaults), best CPU/PG, the light weapon slot, most highs and lows, and most equipment. It's the god suit.

I'm still pushing the lower our slots and/or make our light a sidearm. And I'm a logi pushing for this.

4 slots of everything is fine, do you guys not realize how much SP it takes to upgrade modules so that you can even fit them?

Logis are SP-sinks.

I've been a logi since I started as well and I disagree that there is only one bad apple. They are all bad apples. A logi doesn't need 4 highs and 4 lows or any variation of that many mod slots. They are supposed to be the equipment guys. As it stands now we get the best of everything. Good base health (only about 30 less than assaults), best CPU/PG, the light weapon slot, most highs and lows, and most equipment. It's the god suit.

I'm still pushing the lower our slots and/or make our light a sidearm. And I'm a logi pushing for this.

People are complaining about logis having all these slots because they don't.

Why would you want to take that away from someone else instead of just boosting your own class build?

Because logis are doing a better job at assault than assault. Plus with 4 high and 4 low, you can't really boost the assault even more because there's no room to grow there. You'd have to give all 4 racial variants of assault 5 high and 5 low and even then the logi would be better at assault since they can self support themselves with all the equipment.

If there was more room to grow I would see your point, but as it stands now logis are pretty much maxed out everywhere. There should be no suit like this, regardless of the investment involved.

le sigh...

Again, you fail to read the entire posting, thus nullifying any attempt at argument you make.

By quoting lines out of context without the whole you not only dilute the actual statement made but corrupt its meaning and twist it to fit what you THINK you want because you can't look at a bigger picture than what already exists.

Imagine if a Proto Cal assault had 4H,3L and 2E, Gall 3/4/2... Min 4/3/2 or Amarr 3/5/1...
With their notably higher base stats than the logi suits they would at most break even if a logi attempted to run assault which is what, unfortunately, 90% of players want to run because they want the average bland mud-pie FPS and can't even begin to imagine something infinitely better which is what DUST has the opportunity to give us.

So give those racial spec Assault and Heavy suits more CPU/PG as well, and increase the CPU/PG demand of related spec focused modules like damage modifiers, thus restricting those to either weakened "assaut" logis or the THEN more significantly powered proper frontline assault Assaults.

Ive said it half a dozen times already, though not all contained here. Stop asking to REDUCE another players gameplay style, but rather balance UP to make yours better.

There needs to be a clearly defined benefit to skilling into the racial specialty suits. Right now, Logistics is the only one that has it, and it fits, it's balanced. The issue is that the Assault, Heavy, and Scout race spec suits don't. THAT is what needs fixing, not "nerfing" something else that other players have worked hard for and earned.

I don't agree that the Caldari is broken, but I agree other specs need to be adjusted. The Caldari proto assault already has a fair amount of slots, just not equipment. If their base EHP were higher, they had a slightly better movement edge, or they had better passive spec bonuses - the extra slots on the logi wouldn't matter. The extra logi module slots can allow them to be flexible. If they decide to go all-in for assault, that's takes sacrificing all those slots, and I imagine in the "best" case scenario that a Caldari Logi with a shield bonus might be beating a Caldari Assault at shields, but by sacrificing damage. Similarly, by going all damage mods, the logi would comparatively crippled in protection compared to the Assault.

The high slot count is something I see as allowing logis to adjust their build around protection, EWAR, hacking, or combat roles. Assault should have a better default combat state, but a logi going all-out on defense should be slightly better than an assault - worse than a heavy in total hp (at the expense of something else in their lego build).

This is aside from the more obvious counters - even a Caldari Logi maxing their shield bonus (very expensive, it should be mentioned) can get them wiped in a single flux, is vulnerable to anti-shield weapons, etc. Of course, people also need to consider that damage was just buffed again by 10%, and even maxing protection won't protect you long (ARs already have a 110 bonus to to shields, Scramblers will have more).

Imagine if a Proto Cal assault had 4H,3L and 2E, Gall 3/4/2... Min 4/3/2 or Amarr 3/5/1...

I've been a logi since I started as well and I disagree that there is only one bad apple. They are all bad apples. A logi doesn't need 4 highs and 4 lows or any variation of that many mod slots. They are supposed to be the equipment guys. As it stands now we get the best of everything. Good base health (only about 30 less than assaults), best CPU/PG, the light weapon slot, most highs and lows, and most equipment. It's the god suit.

I'm still pushing the lower our slots and/or make our light a sidearm. And I'm a logi pushing for this.

The major issue with the logistics seems to be the bonuses. I think they got the role and racial bonuses wrong. Logistics role bonus should be decrease is cpu/pg for equipment. This would be for ALL logistics. Then the racial, I would think some sort of tank bonus at this point so amarr bonus to plates, gallente get rep bonus, mini get shield recharge, and caldari get extenders? Just think out loud here, but I really think the role bonus should be to equipment, not tank. That is their "role" right?

The major issue with the logistics seems to be the bonuses. I think they got the role and racial bonuses wrong. Logistics role bonus should be decrease is cpu/pg for equipment. This would be for ALL logistics. Then the racial, I would think some sort of tank bonus at this point so amarr bonus to plates, gallente get rep bonus, mini get shield recharge, and caldari get extenders? Just think out loud here, but I really think the role bonus should be to equipment, not tank. That is their "role" right?

It's not just the logi class and the other suits, CCP anounced that they were going to double nerf the HMG and that made a ton of them quit and become logis while they ninja nerfed everything else. HMG nerf is the source of the ****ing problem, but the other suits being crappy compared to the logi is another piece of the puzzle.

Pfft...you can have my +1 Armor Repair if it will mean all the QQ will HTFU. Touch my hacking bonus and I'll gut you. Fair enough?

I'll keep throwing this out there until I get someone to either shut me down or tell me its and okay idea.

What about the possible implementation of say a unique slot class restricted to the logi suit?

Medium Slots would fill the roles of improving the logisitics suits sub systems or other logisitical functions.

For example rather than having 4 High and 4 Low. The Suit might have something like, and depending on its racial bent.

3 High 3 Low, and 2 Medium. The meduim slots however would fit specialised modules like Nanite Regulator (bonus to injector base HP upon revival, Repair Triage Sub Systems (bonus to Armour repair rate), a shift of scanning modules to Medium so that they become useful to specialised scan logi's,, etc so that while the logi can tank the way they want, they dont over tank the Assault. Heavy suits by a great deal as well as getting more customisable options for how a logi wants their suit to operate.

Assaults are fine. Heavies will be fine once we get the new range system. Scouts suck, or at least they will once the hit detection gets fixed.

This is just Assault users QQing and trying to nerf an entire class because of one sightly OP suit.

[lThere needs to be a way to make Logi suits more about Logi.

Maybe a penalty to equiping higher tier weapons? Like instead of costing a flat amount of cpu/pg they take up a percentage of each? Like basic light weapins take 35%, advanced takes 45, proto 55, officer 60? Percentages can be tweaked, I'm unfamiliar with the pg/cpu output on logi suits (I roll fatty) but perhaps something like that? Or lower their overall cpu/ pg but give them a class bonus to reduce cpu/pg consumption of equipment (not sure how that one woukd work, people could just forgo the equipment still). I think cpu/pg penalties to "offensive" modules and high end weapons may help.

Min Logi hack bonus is not just for hacking now, but for more of the Ewar stuff in the future. Hacking enemy nanohives, drop uplinks, and more. On top of that the hacking bonus only helps your team if you are a logi that can play the frontline and hack while your teammates hold off enemies at an objective. Thus the even number of highs and lows.

Amarr logi is the sorriest of the bunch, Assaults suits are better at logi than this loadout. 2 equpment slots and only 3h/3l on the proto level. It needs a +1low and a +1 equipment slot. NO logi should have less than 3 equipment slots. It should just be gospel, doctrine, universal truth. And Amar is should have 1 more low slot... he's Amarr and the balancing does not seem fair to gain a sidearm and lose a 1H/1L/2E from the standard logi. 1High (normally devoted to +ehp or repair) 1 Low (all sorts of modules, ARMOR or repper) and 2E (the basic roll of a logi is to have lots of this... he has the equivalent of an old assault suit?). Broke in the bad way.

Mind you that the Devs may want us to look at the whole thing as a new game, but we are running comparisons to the chromosome build. Based on the Proto logi we had the 4/4/4 was expected. We are not seeing the balance in this build of how the old logi suit can vary among the races as having a flow between those numbers with the Caldari and Gallente versions and totally miss on the Amarr Logi suit... go figure.

As to nerfing Logis, that's messed up yo. The bonuses for the logis are for self repair - no one else will do it - and tanking a bit more to live long enough to help other players. This is not a new post, many other threads have spoken to it. The logi has never been better than the Assault suits until now, and that is just the killer bee builds. While people died by a logi's hands in Chromosome the great slayers were never in Logi gear. Always assault. So, if that has changed then the appeal of bonuses have changed and the Assaults need a buff not a logi nerf.

The issue at hand is the Assault suits and bonuses. The logi bonuses and limitations (speed, lower ehp) can be over come with proto modules. A few speed modules and the speed is over come, and playing on the nature of the racial suit the appropriate tanking module will buff HP. They loose the role that you can use the suit for. Gone are the possibilities for scanning modules, hack modules, and other items that only fit into those slots where the speed modules were - that a logi uses just for that purpose. They have created a nonversitile speed tank. It is one build. One that is destroying us right now, but just one build.

That the build is so predominant points to a break in the game, which may be addressed by new equipment or may not. Is there a counter to the Caldari or Gallente logi tanks? We will see.

Wow, I wish I could figure out how to make my Minmatar Logi Proto suit the god-like being folks are complaining about. Not sure what makes it so beastly...

Must be the whopping 213 HP of shields I have from that awesome 90 HP base and 3 Enhanced Shield Extenders I have.

Or is it the staggering 265 HP of armor that a 150 HP base gets me combined with one Enhanced Armor Plate. Yeah...478 total Hit Points should have you all wetting your dropsuit.

I know...it is the Duvolle Assualt Rifle that EVERYONE else in a proto suit carries. A real game changer.

Super speedy shield recharge (25.45)? Rapid Armor Repair Rate (7)? What could it be?

It's gotta be the CPU/PG output right? I mean the fact that I am maxed out with the only Proto thing attached being that Duvolle and I have to use a Militia CPU Upgrade to get that means I am OP, correct?

Can't be the BDR-2 Repair Tool...or the KIN-012 Nanite Injector...K-2 Nanohives aren't that great anymore....

AH HA!!!!! I got it....has to be the Basic Active Scanner!!! Damn, I knew I would figure it out. Thanks everyone. Thanks for showing me how OP my 135k ISK fitting, that cost me 9 million Skill Points to get into is.

Nerf Me...please