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The "Logistics" Connundrum: Time To Lay It Down

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Chankk Saotome SyNergy Gaming EoN. 239	Posted - 2013.05.10 12:24:00 - [1] - Quote Okay, I know there are a million of these threads but as a logistics player for nearly a year now I'm gonna set some things straight as well as make some statements that are probably against what a lot of people want but in my honest personal opinion I think that's because people are just too inept to think about the real issue and try to find a way to solve that rather than just quick fixes to bring it all to a common baseline. I will state, and not deny, that I am coming at this from my own direction which purposefully went for the Min logi and it's 4/4/4 (High slot / Low slot / Equipment slot, I've been using this denotation for logistics for months now and will continue to do till the day I stop playing) slots setup specifically FOR its versatility on the field... at logi-ing, so there is a slight bias perhaps? I've tried to keep it to the facts. So here it goes. There is nothing wrong with most logis as they stand, Minmatar, Gallente, or Amarr. There's just one bad apple in the bunch and it's sad that one race has to cheat the system and the whole class-line gets rammed up the exhaust valve for it. Caldari Logistics bonus, you have to go buddy, and I'm not sorry in the least. The Amarr bonus is a bit beefy but we can deal with that at a later date if there are even any real issues. With their lowered H/L/E, They could use that armor rep bonus to validate them as a more hardy logi though limited in logi-ing and mobile support. As for all the rest, it's perfectly fine and you all know it deep inside. The truth isn't the apparent strength of the logistics class, it's the obvious weaknesses of other class spec suits, especially considering that the basic frame types ARE the Scout, Assault, and Heavy spec suits but for millions of SP less, only more ISK investment which is meaningless to people with hundreds of millions currently. What we need is a PG/CPU and Module increase to Spec Assaults and Heavies. I really don't know what to do with scouts, they're already scary enough as it is... Everyone stop screaming "NERF" because something is seemingly too powerful. You should instead ask that other things be brought UP to that level rather than the one be brought DOWN. This would be like telling Usain Bolt or Tyson Gay they just can't compete in the Olympics because they're just too damn fast. The point of champions and heroes is the ability to look UP to them as something to rise to and achieve ourselves. The same ideology should be applied in game-balancing. Weakening someone else's gameplay style doesn't make anyone happy in the long run. You have to strengthen the counterplay styles to it and give them higher incentives. Increase Assault and Heavy CPU/PG, Increase Damage Mod demands. And for heaven's sake, increase Assault and heavy module slots. This makes everyone happy and doesn't hurt anyone's preferred gameplay mechanic. I say this as a mixed combat/frontline/defensive support logi. Yes, I get my kills and assists too but that's because I realize that IN a firefight most of the time, the best support you can give is out the business end of your firearm, and then deal with cleanup duty as the action starts to tail off. Just my 0.02 ISK, but I just hope to get some people thinking about moving things in a positive direction overall rather than lowering this game into entropic and endless identical repetitive oblivion with everyone __________ A strong man can do many things, But the strongest knows he cannot do everything alone.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION 1502	Posted - 2013.05.10 13:43:00 - [2] - Quote Bump, such a well written and interesting post shouldn't go unseen.
I-X-I Kinsho Swords Caldari State 1	Posted - 2013.05.10 14:54:00 - [3] - Quote Quote: The Amarr bonus is a bit beefy but we can deal with that at a later date if there are even any real issues. Trust me the Amarr Logi is not as "beefy" as it seems. I regret my choice, but it was my fault. I picked it to stay true to my toons faction. This looks like the suite CCP wanted to be a more agressive logi. The "best" suite we get has 3 High, and 3 Low. The other classes get 5/4 and 5/3. Yea we get a sidearm, but I am spending more time trying to run support rather than fight enough to warrant carrying a side arm. Plus if I equip Armor plates to get the most out of the racial bonus my speed takes a big hit.
Delirium Inferno Edoras Corporation 186	Posted - 2013.05.10 15:01:00 - [4] - Quote I've been a logi since I started as well and I disagree that there is only one bad apple. They are all bad apples. A logi doesn't need 4 highs and 4 lows or any variation of that many mod slots. They are supposed to be the equipment guys. As it stands now we get the best of everything. Good base health (only about 30 less than assaults), best CPU/PG, the light weapon slot, most highs and lows, and most equipment. It's the god suit. I'm still pushing the lower our slots and/or make our light a sidearm. And I'm a logi pushing for this.
Repe Susi Rautaleijona 376	Posted - 2013.05.10 15:10:00 - [5] - Quote 4 slots of everything is fine, do you guys not realize how much SP it takes to upgrade modules so that you can even fit them? Logis are SP-sinks.
Chankk Saotome SyNergy Gaming EoN. 243	Posted - 2013.05.10 15:21:00 - [6] - Quote Delirium Inferno wrote: I've been a logi since I started as well and I disagree that there is only one bad apple. They are all bad apples. A logi doesn't need 4 highs and 4 lows or any variation of that many mod slots. They are supposed to be the equipment guys. As it stands now we get the best of everything. Good base health (only about 30 less than assaults), best CPU/PG, the light weapon slot, most highs and lows, and most equipment. It's the god suit. I'm still pushing the lower our slots and/or make our light a sidearm. And I'm a logi pushing for this. Reppe Susi wrote: 4 slots of everything is fine, do you guys not realize how much SP it takes to upgrade modules so that you can even fit them? Logis are SP-sinks. This is the whole point. 2mil for the proto basic Medium. 5mil for the proto logi or proto assault. The benefit is balanced by the investment. The problem is that the Assault doesn't have a major benefit over the basic Medium frame, which it should. People are complaining about logis having all these slots because they don't. Why would you want to take that away from someone else instead of just boosting your own class build? That's what I'm arguing for. Making Assaults and Heavies better, not kicking logis for benefiting from their SP investment. The fact that you missed this entirely makes me a sad panda. I'm trying to HELP all you assaults and heavies here.
Thog A Kuma Planetary Response Organisation 77	Posted - 2013.05.10 15:22:00 - [7] - Quote Delirium Inferno wrote: I've been a logi since I started as well and I disagree that there is only one bad apple. They are all bad apples. A logi doesn't need 4 highs and 4 lows or any variation of that many mod slots. They are supposed to be the equipment guys. As it stands now we get the best of everything. Good base health (only about 30 less than assaults), best CPU/PG, the light weapon slot, most highs and lows, and most equipment. It's the god suit. I'm still pushing the lower our slots and/or make our light a sidearm. And I'm a logi pushing for this. When you sink a couple mill SP into a suit class and the ancillary bits 4/4/4 is not unreasonable. Our suits can (pretty sure) cost more than everyones when you load all that equipment in. when we are playing our role we need to be able to survive while equipment changes reviving and repping. Most teams aren't targeting the LOGI first ( yet) but they will be in PC
Delirium Inferno Edoras Corporation 186	Posted - 2013.05.10 15:25:00 - [8] - Quote Chankk Saotome wrote: People are complaining about logis having all these slots because they don't. Why would you want to take that away from someone else instead of just boosting your own class build? Because logis are doing a better job at assault than assault. Plus with 4 high and 4 low, you can't really boost the assault even more because there's no room to grow there. You'd have to give all 4 racial variants of assault 5 high and 5 low and even then the logi would be better at assault since they can self support themselves with all the equipment. If there was more room to grow I would see your point, but as it stands now logis are pretty much maxed out everywhere. There should be no suit like this, regardless of the investment involved.
xxMemphis KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 14	Posted - 2013.05.10 15:31:00 - [9] - Quote I will admit I have seen alot of Logi that use it as a modded assault guy not a support player and that is a problem. I agree if I have to sink 5mil SP to have a logi that is slightly better than your 1.8 base assault tough suck it up. Change the base suits and make them no better than the advanced suits last build....you want to have a proto great suit then sink 5 mil into it...not 2 mil. I have playing as an assault guy bu tit makes since....4mil SP and 140k isk and you have a very very solid build....but to be a low level logi you have to put 4.5mil and only about 50k isk that seems wrong. How hard would it be to either make the base suits...base nothing special. At this point what racial assault bonus is so great that it is worth going into over a logi assault build....none of them, you already have a very good assault build that you were forced to get...so go logi and then you have 2 very good builds....should not work that way
Chankk Saotome SyNergy Gaming EoN. 243	Posted - 2013.05.10 17:57:00 - [10] - Quote Delirium Inferno wrote: Chankk Saotome wrote: People are complaining about logis having all these slots because they don't. Why would you want to take that away from someone else instead of just boosting your own class build? Because logis are doing a better job at assault than assault. Plus with 4 high and 4 low, you can't really boost the assault even more because there's no room to grow there. You'd have to give all 4 racial variants of assault 5 high and 5 low and even then the logi would be better at assault since they can self support themselves with all the equipment. If there was more room to grow I would see your point, but as it stands now logis are pretty much maxed out everywhere. There should be no suit like this, regardless of the investment involved. le sigh... Again, you fail to read the entire posting, thus nullifying any attempt at argument you make. By quoting lines out of context without the whole you not only dilute the actual statement made but corrupt its meaning and twist it to fit what you THINK you want because you can't look at a bigger picture than what already exists. Imagine if a Proto Cal assault had 4H,3L and 2E, Gall 3/4/2... Min 4/4/2 or Amarr 4/5/1... With their notably higher base stats than the logi suits they would at most break even if a logi attempted to run assault which is what, unfortunately, 90% of players want to run because they want the average bland mud-pie FPS and can't even begin to imagine something infinitely better which is what DUST has the opportunity to give us. So give those racial spec Assault and Heavy suits more CPU/PG as well, and increase the CPU/PG demand of related spec focused modules like damage modifiers, thus restricting those to either weakened "assaut" logis or the THEN more significantly powered proper frontline assault Assaults. Ive said it half a dozen times already, though not all contained here. Stop asking to REDUCE another players gameplay style, but rather balance UP to make yours better. There needs to be a clearly defined benefit to skilling into the racial specialty suits. Right now, Logistics is the only one that has it, and it fits, it's balanced. The issue is that the Assault, Heavy, and Scout race spec suits don't. THAT is what needs fixing, not "nerfing" something else that other players have worked hard for and earned.

Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 144	Posted - 2013.05.10 18:58:00 - [11] - Quote Chankk Saotome wrote: Delirium Inferno wrote: Chankk Saotome wrote: People are complaining about logis having all these slots because they don't. Why would you want to take that away from someone else instead of just boosting your own class build? Because logis are doing a better job at assault than assault. Plus with 4 high and 4 low, you can't really boost the assault even more because there's no room to grow there. You'd have to give all 4 racial variants of assault 5 high and 5 low and even then the logi would be better at assault since they can self support themselves with all the equipment. If there was more room to grow I would see your point, but as it stands now logis are pretty much maxed out everywhere. There should be no suit like this, regardless of the investment involved. le sigh... Again, you fail to read the entire posting, thus nullifying any attempt at argument you make. By quoting lines out of context without the whole you not only dilute the actual statement made but corrupt its meaning and twist it to fit what you THINK you want because you can't look at a bigger picture than what already exists. Imagine if a Proto Cal assault had 4H,3L and 2E, Gall 3/4/2... Min 4/3/2 or Amarr 3/5/1... With their notably higher base stats than the logi suits they would at most break even if a logi attempted to run assault which is what, unfortunately, 90% of players want to run because they want the average bland mud-pie FPS and can't even begin to imagine something infinitely better which is what DUST has the opportunity to give us. So give those racial spec Assault and Heavy suits more CPU/PG as well, and increase the CPU/PG demand of related spec focused modules like damage modifiers, thus restricting those to either weakened "assaut" logis or the THEN more significantly powered proper frontline assault Assaults. Ive said it half a dozen times already, though not all contained here. Stop asking to REDUCE another players gameplay style, but rather balance UP to make yours better. There needs to be a clearly defined benefit to skilling into the racial specialty suits. Right now, Logistics is the only one that has it, and it fits, it's balanced. The issue is that the Assault, Heavy, and Scout race spec suits don't. THAT is what needs fixing, not "nerfing" something else that other players have worked hard for and earned. I don't agree that the Caldari is broken, but I agree other specs need to be adjusted. The Caldari proto assault already has a fair amount of slots, just not equipment. If their base EHP were higher, they had a slightly better movement edge, or they had better passive spec bonuses - the extra slots on the logi wouldn't matter. The extra logi module slots can allow them to be flexible. If they decide to go all-in for assault, that's takes sacrificing all those slots, and I imagine in the "best" case scenario that a Caldari Logi with a shield bonus might be beating a Caldari Assault at shields, but by sacrificing damage. Similarly, by going all damage mods, the logi would comparatively crippled in protection compared to the Assault. The high slot count is something I see as allowing logis to adjust their build around protection, EWAR, hacking, or combat roles. Assault should have a better default combat state, but a logi going all-out on defense should be slightly better than an assault - worse than a heavy in total hp (at the expense of something else in their lego build). This is aside from the more obvious counters - even a Caldari Logi maxing their shield bonus (very expensive, it should be mentioned) can get them wiped in a single flux, is vulnerable to anti-shield weapons, etc. Of course, people also need to consider that damage was just buffed again by 10%, and even maxing protection won't protect you long (ARs already have a 110 bonus to to shields, Scramblers will have more).
Hey Fatty SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 4	Posted - 2013.05.10 19:15:00 - [12] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: Chankk Saotome wrote: Delirium Inferno wrote: Chankk Saotome wrote: People are complaining about logis having all these slots because they don't. Why would you want to take that away from someone else instead of just boosting your own class build? Because logis are doing a better job at assault than assault. Plus with 4 high and 4 low, you can't really boost the assault even more because there's no room to grow there. You'd have to give all 4 racial variants of assault 5 high and 5 low and even then the logi would be better at assault since they can self support themselves with all the equipment. If there was more room to grow I would see your point, but as it stands now logis are pretty much maxed out everywhere. There should be no suit like this, regardless of the investment involved. le sigh... Again, you fail to read the entire posting, thus nullifying any attempt at argument you make. By quoting lines out of context without the whole you not only dilute the actual statement made but corrupt its meaning and twist it to fit what you THINK you want because you can't look at a bigger picture than what already exists. Imagine if a Proto Cal assault had 4H,3L and 2E, Gall 3/4/2... Min 4/3/2 or Amarr 3/5/1... With their notably higher base stats than the logi suits they would at most break even if a logi attempted to run assault which is what, unfortunately, 90% of players want to run because they want the average bland mud-pie FPS and can't even begin to imagine something infinitely better which is what DUST has the opportunity to give us. So give those racial spec Assault and Heavy suits more CPU/PG as well, and increase the CPU/PG demand of related spec focused modules like damage modifiers, thus restricting those to either weakened "assaut" logis or the THEN more significantly powered proper frontline assault Assaults. Ive said it half a dozen times already, though not all contained here. Stop asking to REDUCE another players gameplay style, but rather balance UP to make yours better. There needs to be a clearly defined benefit to skilling into the racial specialty suits. Right now, Logistics is the only one that has it, and it fits, it's balanced. The issue is that the Assault, Heavy, and Scout race spec suits don't. THAT is what needs fixing, not "nerfing" something else that other players have worked hard for and earned. I don't agree that the Caldari is broken, but I agree other specs need to be adjusted. The Caldari proto assault already has a fair amount of slots, just not equipment. If their base EHP were higher, they had a slightly better movement edge, or they had better passive spec bonuses - the extra slots on the logi wouldn't matter. The extra logi module slots can allow them to be flexible. If they decide to go all-in for assault, that's takes sacrificing all those slots, and I imagine in the "best" case scenario that a Caldari Logi with a shield bonus might be beating a Caldari Assault at shields, but by sacrificing damage. Similarly, by going all damage mods, the logi would comparatively crippled in protection compared to the Assault. The high slot count is something I see as allowing logis to adjust their build around protection, EWAR, hacking, or combat roles. Assault should have a better default combat state, but a logi going all-out on defense should be slightly better than an assault - worse than a heavy in total hp (at the expense of something else in their lego build). This is aside from the more obvious counters - even a Caldari Logi maxing their shield bonus (very expensive, it should be mentioned) can get them wiped in a single flux, is vulnerable to anti-shield weapons, etc. Of course, people also need to consider that damage was just buffed again by 10%, and even maxing protection won't protect you long (ARs already have a 110 bonus to to shields, Scramblers will have more). Truth.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2906	Posted - 2013.05.10 19:36:00 - [13] - Quote Chankk Saotome wrote: Imagine if a Proto Cal assault had 4H,3L and 2E, Gall 3/4/2... Min 4/3/2 or Amarr 3/5/1... I really, REALLY don't want to see this. A secondary Medium suit variant with 2 Equipment slots to act as a "mini Logi" suit while skilling up would be nice, but I DON'T want to see a game where ALL the suits end up being "master of all trades" as you skill into them. Logis are currently great at everything - particularly the Caldari Logi. I think all the Logi suits need a slight rebalance - MIGHT be a nerf, might not, to make them more role-specific. I don't think they need to be made weaker, just less of a super-Assault. 4/4/4 as you described it makes for a beastly Logi fitting, but it can ALSO make an amazing frontline combat suit. There needs to be a way to make Logi suits more about Logi. Assaults need a buff to be in line with how effective the Logi is, but NOT a buff that includes extra equipment slots so they can take the role of a Logi when they want to. Scouts could use a little extra on our PG/CPU, and maybe a module slot or two, and actually having a better base scan range would be nice. Either reduce the range on all the other suits, and reduce the Light Frame by less, or buff the LIght Frame range a little, and the Scout suit more.
Cat Merc BetaMax. CRONOS. 991	Posted - 2013.05.10 19:36:00 - [14] - Quote I do think that even base amount of slots is kinda low, and everyone should have at least two more slots. As in both standard, advanced and proto suits all gain two extra slots.
Hecarim Van Hohen The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION 28	Posted - 2013.05.10 19:38:00 - [15] - Quote This was a awesome thread but it might be making too much sense for these forums, +1 to you good sir.
RydogV Shadow Company HQ 144	Posted - 2013.05.10 22:24:00 - [16] - Quote Wow, I wish I could figure out how to make my Minmatar Logi Proto suit the god-like being folks are complaining about. Not sure what makes it so beastly... Must be the whopping 213 HP of shields I have from that awesome 90 HP base and 3 Enhanced Shield Extenders I have. Or is it the staggering 265 HP of armor that a 150 HP base gets me combined with one Enhanced Armor Plate. Yeah...478 total Hit Points should have you all wetting your dropsuit. I know...it is the Duvolle Assualt Rifle that EVERYONE else in a proto suit carries. A real game changer. Super speedy shield recharge (25.45)? Rapid Armor Repair Rate (7)? What could it be? It's gotta be the CPU/PG output right? I mean the fact that I am maxed out with the only Proto thing attached being that Duvolle and I have to use a Militia CPU Upgrade to get that means I am OP, correct? Can't be the BDR-2 Repair Tool...or the KIN-012 Nanite Injector...K-2 Nanohives aren't that great anymore.... AH HA!!!!! I got it....has to be the Basic Active Scanner!!! Damn, I knew I would figure it out. Thanks everyone. Thanks for showing me how OP my 135k ISK fitting, that cost me 9 million Skill Points to get into is. Nerf Me...please
NeoWraith Acedia Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 294	Posted - 2013.05.10 22:49:00 - [17] - Quote Delirium Inferno wrote: I've been a logi since I started as well and I disagree that there is only one bad apple. They are all bad apples. A logi doesn't need 4 highs and 4 lows or any variation of that many mod slots. They are supposed to be the equipment guys. As it stands now we get the best of everything. Good base health (only about 30 less than assaults), best CPU/PG, the light weapon slot, most highs and lows, and most equipment. It's the god suit. I'm still pushing the lower our slots and/or make our light a sidearm. And I'm a logi pushing for this. Movement speed. The assault suits are better for combat because of movement speed alone, but all people see is EHP and automatically think it's "god mode"
Spademan The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 58	Posted - 2013.05.10 22:59:00 - [18] - Quote I really dont see the problem with any logistics, let alone the Caldari ones. When you throw a flux they get very squishy very quick. Plus, they're kinda slow.
Jakob Evhin Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 25	Posted - 2013.05.10 23:01:00 - [19] - Quote Excellent post, and it's good to see some actual thought go into why Logistics, well, Assault is broken at the moment. The bonuses wouldn't be that bad, if they just provided more meaningful bonuses, whats the Caldari Assault bonus, shield recharge rate? 5% reduction in PG/CPU of hybrid weaponry? The community has shown that the Logistics 5% shield extender bonus is much more desirable, so you gotta ask, why is Logistics getting a bonus that seems to be for Assault players? On top of an additional H/L slot? Don't nerf logis, although I would support a module slot nerf, but just make Assault suits better Assault suits. Provide some incentive for people to use the right suit. And give logistic suits meaningful logistics bonuses, right now the only one that makes sense to me is the Gallente one. A hacking bonus to Minmatar logistics? That's great and all, but doesn't help for an actual logistics role,. Amarr armor repair rate bonus? Again, does this really help make you a better logi? These bonuses just seem to be tacked on for lore purposes, without any real purpose towards specialization.
P14GU3 The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 51	Posted - 2013.05.10 23:02:00 - [20] - Quote The major issue with the logistics seems to be the bonuses. I think they got the role and racial bonuses wrong. Logistics role bonus should be decrease is cpu/pg for equipment. This would be for ALL logistics. Then the racial, I would think some sort of tank bonus at this point so amarr bonus to plates, gallente get rep bonus, mini get shield recharge, and caldari get extenders? Just think out loud here, but I really think the role bonus should be to equipment, not tank. That is their "role" right?

RydogV Shadow Company HQ 145	Posted - 2013.05.10 23:21:00 - [21] - Quote P14GU3 wrote: The major issue with the logistics seems to be the bonuses. I think they got the role and racial bonuses wrong. Logistics role bonus should be decrease is cpu/pg for equipment. This would be for ALL logistics. Then the racial, I would think some sort of tank bonus at this point so amarr bonus to plates, gallente get rep bonus, mini get shield recharge, and caldari get extenders? Just think out loud here, but I really think the role bonus should be to equipment, not tank. That is their "role" right? Pfft...you can have my +1 Armor Repair if it will mean all the QQ will HTFU. Touch my hacking bonus and I'll gut you. Fair enough?
DudeMcGuy 06 L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION 8	Posted - 2013.05.11 00:00:00 - [22] - Quote OK, I realize this thread is along the lines of "Don't nerf Logi's, make assaults better!" But I will list my "nerf" idea here since this is the best overall Logi-balance discussion thread I have come across so far. So my idea is... What if the Logi's could only fill their high slots (however many they have) with a maximum of 3 shield extenders? Meaning a Caldari Logi would have a base EHP of 337.5 (With passives maxed: 180 x 1.25 + 90 x 1.25) plus 297 extra shield (Three extenders with max role bonus and max extender bonus: 66 x 3 x 1.50) for a total of 634.5 HP. This number is slightly less than a Caldari assault suit with the same 3 complex shield mod's and passives maxed (660 EHP). This way the Caldari assault suit becomes the better shield tanker, (since it could put on up to 4 extenders) which combined with it's better speed and a sidearm would make it more suited for front line combat then the Logistics version (as it should be). Granted, someone who still wants to play Caldari Logi as an assault suit could stack armor on the four low slots (dual tanking), but then they would be reducing their speed even more, and the assault could do the same thing and still be faster with a side arm. This way none of the Logi's support functions are effected (They can use the extra 2 high slots for other things) and the assault variant is the better choice for dedicated combat. So what does everyone think? Is this a solution to the "Killer bees" problem?
Chankk Saotome SyNergy Gaming EoN. 255	Posted - 2013.05.11 01:40:00 - [23] - Quote P14GU3 wrote: The major issue with the logistics seems to be the bonuses. I think they got the role and racial bonuses wrong. Logistics role bonus should be decrease is cpu/pg for equipment. This would be for ALL logistics. Then the racial, I would think some sort of tank bonus at this point so amarr bonus to plates, gallente get rep bonus, mini get shield recharge, and caldari get extenders? Just think out loud here, but I really think the role bonus should be to equipment, not tank. That is their "role" right? I like this idea too, though honestly I think the current Amarr and Gall Logi bonuses are spot on for what they are. Even more bolstered Armor Rep for a heavy armor tank logi, Lowered PG/CPU per equipment with 4 loaded up. Spot on. As for Min, it doesn't seem to fit but I recognize that at lvl3 only I hack as fast as 2 people by myself. That's a fast enough hack time to take a CRU or objective to prevent respawns while my team holds people off. Then I can turn around to revive anyone downed and repair everyone. Being a heavy skirmish player that's awesome to me but I can recognize it's a somewhat worthless bonus for probably most Min logis. The Cal Logi bonus should probably be dropped to either Recharge bonus or Regulator bonus. Leave them their 5 slots, if they load up all shield extenders no problem. So they sit around 360 from modules, 225 from base. 580 shield if that's ALL they've loaded up? That's more acceptable than the nearly 700 currently and while a Regulator bonus would help it recharge sooner they'd still have to wait a while to actually get it all back. Most will realize they need a Recharger or two to balance it out dropping some shields to do so. And they still have to deal with their 90 armor if that all gets lost which can be a harrowing experience for them when they come up against anti-shield weaponry. __________ While I see something going on with the Caldari Logi skill bonus, I maintain the issue is with suit builds themselves. AND I will still maintain that the real issue is that there's no meaningful incentive or purpose to spec into racial Assault variants which is what needs changing, not anything on the logistics SUIT side.
NeoWraith Acedia Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 298	Posted - 2013.05.11 01:41:00 - [24] - Quote I want people to see this thread and give tell me exactly how logis are Op? https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=75780&find=unread
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 640	Posted - 2013.05.11 01:44:00 - [25] - Quote It's not just the logi class and the other suits, CCP anounced that they were going to double nerf the HMG and that made a ton of them quit and become logis while they ninja nerfed everything else. HMG nerf is the source of the ****ing problem, but the other suits being crappy compared to the logi is another piece of the puzzle.
Johnny Guilt Algintal Core Gallente Federation 71	Posted - 2013.05.11 01:49:00 - [26] - Quote Lower the slots for logi suits and lower there cost of SP just so you dont feel cheated for investing in a supportive suit.
NeoWraith Acedia Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 299	Posted - 2013.05.11 01:49:00 - [27] - Quote Cosgar wrote: It's not just the logi class and the other suits, CCP anounced that they were going to double nerf the HMG and that made a ton of them quit and become logis while they ninja nerfed everything else. HMG nerf is the source of the ****ing problem, but the other suits being crappy compared to the logi is another piece of the puzzle. Assaults are fine. Heavies will be fine once we get the new range system. Scouts suck, or at least they will once the hit detection gets fixed. This is just Assault users QQing and trying to nerf an entire class because of one sightly OP suit.
P14GU3 The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 58	Posted - 2013.05.11 01:50:00 - [28] - Quote RydogV wrote: P14GU3 wrote: The major issue with the logistics seems to be the bonuses. I think they got the role and racial bonuses wrong. Logistics role bonus should be decrease is cpu/pg for equipment. This would be for ALL logistics. Then the racial, I would think some sort of tank bonus at this point so amarr bonus to plates, gallente get rep bonus, mini get shield recharge, and caldari get extenders? Just think out loud here, but I really think the role bonus should be to equipment, not tank. That is their "role" right? Pfft...you can have my +1 Armor Repair if it will mean all the QQ will HTFU. Touch my hacking bonus and I'll gut you. Fair enough? Lulz! I knew the "winmatar" would say this, the hack bonus enticed me too. I was just spitballing tbh. I really think the role bonus is the OP factor tho, because the slot layout isn't a big advantage..
Harkon Vysarii Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 247	Posted - 2013.05.11 01:52:00 - [29] - Quote I'll keep throwing this out there until I get someone to either shut me down or tell me its and okay idea. What about the possible implementation of say a unique slot class restricted to the logi suit? Medium Slots would fill the roles of improving the logisitics suits sub systems or other logisitical functions. For example rather than having 4 High and 4 Low. The Suit might have something like, and depending on its racial bent. 3 High 3 Low, and 2 Medium. The meduim slots however would fit specialised modules like Nanite Regulator (bonus to injector base HP upon revival, Repair Triage Sub Systems (bonus to Armour repair rate), a shift of scanning modules to Medium so that they become useful to specialised scan logi's,, etc so that while the logi can tank the way they want, they dont over tank the Assault. Heavy suits by a great deal as well as getting more customisable options for how a logi wants their suit to operate.
NeoWraith Acedia Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 299	Posted - 2013.05.11 01:54:00 - [30] - Quote Harkon Vysarii wrote: I'll keep throwing this out there until I get someone to either shut me down or tell me its and okay idea. What about the possible implementation of say a unique slot class restricted to the logi suit? Medium Slots would fill the roles of improving the logisitics suits sub systems or other logisitical functions. For example rather than having 4 High and 4 Low. The Suit might have something like, and depending on its racial bent. 3 High 3 Low, and 2 Medium. The meduim slots however would fit specialised modules like Nanite Regulator (bonus to injector base HP upon revival, Repair Triage Sub Systems (bonus to Armour repair rate), a shift of scanning modules to Medium so that they become useful to specialised scan logi's,, etc so that while the logi can tank the way they want, they dont over tank the Assault. Heavy suits by a great deal as well as getting more customisable options for how a logi wants their suit to operate. If you include hacking in there then I'm all for it.



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