DUST Search - Sticky:Weapon damage model/HMG balance

Master Jaraiya wrote:

Liner ReXiandra wrote:

It's really unbelieveable that this was allowed to happen.

We've spend a year in beta with subpar graphics that got excused by the "we want to focus on getting the core shooter game good". Then you upgrade the graphics and throw the entire core gun gameplay out with the bathwater.

Removing a skill because 'everyone will skill to 5 anyway' is a poor excuse; but if you want me to indulge you about truly useless skills: why can I skill up "dropsuit command" to 5, when there are no skills up the tree that need requirements beyond level 3? The skill itself gives no bonus to anything whatsoever. Why don't you nerf *that* instead?

I was wondering about this myself. If I remember correctly in Chromosome you needed Dropsuit Command Lvl 5 in order to unlock Heavy dropsuits. Dropsuit Command also gave a bonus to your scan profile.

Now Heavy at level 3 with nothing beyond. I skilled straight to lvl 5 Dropsuit Command as I knew I would be running heavy. Then I looked and seen I only needed lvl 3 DOH! Admittedly that is my fault entirely but, something needs to be given for the extra two levels of dropsuit command.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
J Lav Opus Arcana Orion Empire 62	Posted - 2013.05.10 10:57:00 - [31] - Quote The described weapon mechanics of having an optimal range - effective range - etc... sounds good. Given the size of maps, and engagement distances, I hope these numbers are mature, encouraging skillful gunplay. I look forward to the coming hotfix :)
ChromeBreaker SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 447	Posted - 2013.05.10 10:57:00 - [32] - Quote DONT DO IT please think some more about this!! No one has complained about the damage of any other weapon. just the hmg. Dont blanket fix a +10% increase Grenades are close to OP as it is, Forge guns, tactical AR's, Lasers... think a bit more about this people.
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp Orion Empire 29	Posted - 2013.05.10 10:57:00 - [33] - Quote Liner ReXiandra wrote: It's really unbelieveable that this was allowed to happen. We've spend a year in beta with subpar graphics that got excused by the "we want to focus on getting the core shooter game good". Then you upgrade the graphics and throw the entire core gun gameplay out with the bathwater. Removing a skill because 'everyone will skill to 5 anyway' is a poor excuse; but if you want me to indulge you about truly useless skills: why can I skill up "dropsuit command" to 5, when there are no skills up the tree that need requirements beyond level 3? The skill itself gives no bonus to anything whatsoever. Why don't you nerf that instead? I was wondering about this myself. If I remember correctly in Chromosome you needed Dropsuit Command Lvl 5 in order to unlock Heavy dropsuits. Dropsuit Command also gave a bonus to your scan profile. Now Heavy at level 3 with nothing beyond. I skilled straight to lvl 5 Dropsuit Command as I knew I would be running heavy. Then I looked and seen I only needed lvl 3 DOH! Admittedly that is my fault entirely but, something needs to be given for the extra two levels of dropsuit command.
General Tiberius1 ZionTCD Unclaimed. 640	Posted - 2013.05.10 10:58:00 - [34] - Quote thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you
Alex Bradshaw The Merc Net 29	Posted - 2013.05.10 10:59:00 - [35] - Quote good news, should address the weak feel of ARs and pistols since the last build.
ChromeBreaker SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 447	Posted - 2013.05.10 11:00:00 - [36] - Quote General Tiberius1 wrote: thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you Yes HMG fix good.... BUt what about 10% genade dmg? or Tactical ARS someone tell me different
General Tiberius1 ZionTCD Unclaimed. 641	Posted - 2013.05.10 11:00:00 - [37] - Quote StarCrash II wrote: Good call ccp but just one question are you going to put the ranges in the list of stats on each gun coz it would be nice to know what my opt and fall off ranges are when i look to see which gun i want to use on the map. this, this is needed, we have it in eve, lets us set up our prefered engagment range, guestimating in dust though is NOT fun
Gaff Origami ZionTCD Unclaimed. 62	Posted - 2013.05.10 11:01:00 - [38] - Quote Master Jaraiya wrote: Liner ReXiandra wrote: It's really unbelieveable that this was allowed to happen. We've spend a year in beta with subpar graphics that got excused by the "we want to focus on getting the core shooter game good". Then you upgrade the graphics and throw the entire core gun gameplay out with the bathwater. Removing a skill because 'everyone will skill to 5 anyway' is a poor excuse; but if you want me to indulge you about truly useless skills: why can I skill up "dropsuit command" to 5, when there are no skills up the tree that need requirements beyond level 3? The skill itself gives no bonus to anything whatsoever. Why don't you nerf that instead? I was wondering about this myself. If I remember correctly in Chromosome you needed Dropsuit Command Lvl 5 in order to unlock Heavy dropsuits. Dropsuit Command also gave a bonus to your scan profile. Now Heavy at level 3 with nothing beyond. I skilled straight to lvl 5 Dropsuit Command as I knew I would be running heavy. Then I looked and seen I only needed lvl 3 DOH! Admittedly that is my fault entirely but, something needs to be given for the extra two levels of dropsuit command. Probably reserved for future expansion...Different suit classes, etc.
Musta Tornius BetaMax. CRONOS. 331	Posted - 2013.05.10 11:02:00 - [39] - Quote General Tiberius1 wrote: StarCrash II wrote: Good call ccp but just one question are you going to put the ranges in the list of stats on each gun coz it would be nice to know what my opt and fall off ranges are when i look to see which gun i want to use on the map. this, this is needed, we have it in eve, lets us set up our prefered engagment range, guestimating in dust though is NOT fun Here you go guys: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=40886&find=unread Excuse the unfinished update after uprising, not enough sp to test everything, more ppl needed for giving a helping hand!
Djheffer O.Q.R.D. 1	Posted - 2013.05.10 11:02:00 - [40] - Quote Kicking so many fixes and balances, great job!

General Tiberius1 ZionTCD Unclaimed. 641	Posted - 2013.05.10 11:03:00 - [41] - Quote Master Jaraiya wrote: Liner ReXiandra wrote: It's really unbelieveable that this was allowed to happen. We've spend a year in beta with subpar graphics that got excused by the "we want to focus on getting the core shooter game good". Then you upgrade the graphics and throw the entire core gun gameplay out with the bathwater. Removing a skill because 'everyone will skill to 5 anyway' is a poor excuse; but if you want me to indulge you about truly useless skills: why can I skill up "dropsuit command" to 5, when there are no skills up the tree that need requirements beyond level 3? The skill itself gives no bonus to anything whatsoever. Why don't you nerf that instead? I was wondering about this myself. If I remember correctly in Chromosome you needed Dropsuit Command Lvl 5 in order to unlock Heavy dropsuits. Dropsuit Command also gave a bonus to your scan profile. Now Heavy at level 3 with nothing beyond. I skilled straight to lvl 5 Dropsuit Command as I knew I would be running heavy. Then I looked and seen I only needed lvl 3 DOH! Admittedly that is my fault entirely but, something needs to be given for the extra two levels of dropsuit command. think i did this too, a year of needing it as a heavy made it a habit that was hard to break
Chibi Andy Forsaken Immortals Gentlemen's Agreement 152	Posted - 2013.05.10 11:03:00 - [42] - Quote hmmmm a 10% increase to the other weapons would be bad since they are already powerful as it is. CCP should just increase the HMG damage.
General Tiberius1 ZionTCD Unclaimed. 641	Posted - 2013.05.10 11:04:00 - [43] - Quote ChromeBreaker wrote: General Tiberius1 wrote: thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you Yes HMG fix good.... BUt what about 10% genade dmg? or Tactical ARS someone tell me different lol, more grenade spams and the tactical is a seasonal weapon, not worried. think some tankers are going to be mad about the FG buff though
General Tiberius1 ZionTCD Unclaimed. 641	Posted - 2013.05.10 11:06:00 - [44] - Quote Musta Tornius wrote: General Tiberius1 wrote: StarCrash II wrote: Good call ccp but just one question are you going to put the ranges in the list of stats on each gun coz it would be nice to know what my opt and fall off ranges are when i look to see which gun i want to use on the map. this, this is needed, we have it in eve, lets us set up our prefered engagment range, guestimating in dust though is NOT fun Here you go guys: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=40886&find=unread Excuse the unfinished update after uprising, not enough sp to test everything, more ppl needed for giving a helping hand! holy hell....well done man, well done request linked thread be stickied if numbers are correct
Weapon Kaiser The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 3	Posted - 2013.05.10 11:07:00 - [45] - Quote Good stuff! Hope the mouse tweaks fix the issues we've been having! Atm it feels like i'm playing the ******** olympics version of shooting.
martinofski Rebelles A Quebec Orion Empire 82	Posted - 2013.05.10 11:07:00 - [46] - Quote Raw damage output inst the issue on the hmg, it's the crazy dispersion and hit detection. Which cut the effective range about in half. So a boundless shooting effectively to 40m on papers is actually doing good at 20m since half is bullets hit, or even less(this considering the player stay on target all the time). Having 110% dmg in effective range on the already strong AR and 95% dmg for the hmg should be all 100%, and from what I read, it will. Lets see how this hot fix turn out. Will be better for sure. But weaponry 10% given to everyone? Tactical will be even more separated I guess with their 71.6 dmg per shot.
Rurouni Kenshin Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 3	Posted - 2013.05.10 11:07:00 - [47] - Quote Guys tryit first before you judge. There is a aiming fix in the patch notes today and the 10% damage are for handheld weapons only which I believe does not include grenades. Double check the skill tree. I believe it's under explosives.
Otoky DIOS EX. Gentlemen's Agreement 64	Posted - 2013.05.10 11:07:00 - [48] - Quote CCP Cmdr Wang wrote: GÇó In the next hot-fix weapons will all get a 10% damage increase to compensate for the removal of the Weaponry skill bonus. Noooooo Why dont you give back weaponary skill bonus?
Medic 1879 The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION 272	Posted - 2013.05.10 11:09:00 - [49] - Quote Any chance of fixing the MD so where the smoke trail lands and where the explosion occurs are the same place? I can live with its radius nerf but its hard to be accurate when you have to fire and ignore the tracer effect knowing that the explosion is usually a few meters further away than where the smoke part lands. It is effectively like aiming a rifle with sights that are bent yes you know what happens and you can adjust your aim knowing the problem but it is annoying none the less.
ChromeBreaker SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 447	Posted - 2013.05.10 11:09:00 - [50] - Quote General Tiberius1 wrote: ChromeBreaker wrote: General Tiberius1 wrote: thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you Yes HMG fix good.... BUt what about 10% genade dmg? or Tactical ARS someone tell me different lol, more grenade spams and the tactical is a seasonal weapon, not worried. think some tankers are going to be mad about the FG buff though think of it as a 10% decrease to your sexy new hp buff The HMG NEEDED something done... blanket fixes are bad

jonahbenhurrrr Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2013.05.10 11:09:00 - [51] - Quote what is being done about the nanite injectior/pick up stick problem it still wont let ya raise people when standing on them ?
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp Orion Empire 30	Posted - 2013.05.10 11:10:00 - [52] - Quote Musta Tornius wrote: General Tiberius1 wrote: StarCrash II wrote: Good call ccp but just one question are you going to put the ranges in the list of stats on each gun coz it would be nice to know what my opt and fall off ranges are when i look to see which gun i want to use on the map. this, this is needed, we have it in eve, lets us set up our prefered engagment range, guestimating in dust though is NOT fun Here you go guys: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=40886&find=unread Excuse the unfinished update after uprising, not enough sp to test everything, more ppl needed for giving a helping hand! Thanks dude but it would be really nice if we could see this in game under the attributes tab for each weapon. It just makes sense to have the info readily available to all DUST players.
Himiko Kuronaga SyNergy Gaming EoN. 378	Posted - 2013.05.10 11:12:00 - [53] - Quote ChromeBreaker wrote: General Tiberius1 wrote: ChromeBreaker wrote: General Tiberius1 wrote: thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you Yes HMG fix good.... BUt what about 10% genade dmg? or Tactical ARS someone tell me different lol, more grenade spams and the tactical is a seasonal weapon, not worried. think some tankers are going to be mad about the FG buff though think of it as a 10% decrease to your sexy new hp buff If I pretend I was playing chromosome before downtime, it's still an HP buff
KEROSIINI-TERO Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 340	Posted - 2013.05.10 11:12:00 - [54] - Quote CCP Cmdr Wang wrote: GÇó In the near future, we will address range issues by removing the hard stop that currently takes place at maximum weapon range. LIKE! That's a huge improvement! Congratulations on honest, analytical, informative and defining post.
Rurouni Kenshin Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 4	Posted - 2013.05.10 11:13:00 - [55] - Quote jonahbenhurrrr wrote: what is being done about the nanite injectior/pick up stick problem it still wont let ya raise people when standing on them ? Dude go and read the maintenance hot fix notes in the announcements section.
Chilled Pill Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION 56	Posted - 2013.05.10 11:14:00 - [56] - Quote While I agree that the HMG does need a buff, I don't think the 10% cross the board increase in handheld weapon damage would not be wise for a number of reasons: 1. The longer fire fights and strafe contests are due to people still adjusting to the new aiming paradigm of Uprising. Once people get used to it, with this added damage, expect more QQ-ing. 2. That 10% damage increase would simply reward 'getting lucky' hits in those strafe contests a boon instead of rewarding good marksmanship. Since aiming is still...well...weird. 3. Currently, having a bit of difficulty taking out targets promotes team play. Focus firing as a squad anyone? 4. The Duvolle Tac AR will do 80++ damage. Taking out scouts in 3-4 hits. (I'm a Scout who uses Tac ARs -- full disclosure)
Medic 1879 The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION 272	Posted - 2013.05.10 11:16:00 - [57] - Quote Rurouni Kenshin wrote: jonahbenhurrrr wrote: what is being done about the nanite injectior/pick up stick problem it still wont let ya raise people when standing on them ? Dude go and read the maintenance hot fix notes in the announcements section. That announces that call for help will be automatic now but the main problem is the injector just refuses to work sometimes no matter how much you stab, even with a symbol it can sometimes be impossible to find the "stabby spot." and also if people are looking at the kill screen you can stab them but they wont get up till you stab them after they close that screen.
bolsh lee Ahrendee Mercenaries 92	Posted - 2013.05.10 11:17:00 - [58] - Quote ChromeBreaker wrote: WAIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please please dont say its a blanket +10% !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Tactical AR's dont need it. Forge guns dont need it Grenades dont need it!!!!!!!!!!!!! PLEASE be careful with this! HMG i can understand but 10% might mess with everything else Exactly wtf this is a mistake if the above gets the buff..... ?
SolusNothos The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 14	Posted - 2013.05.10 11:18:00 - [59] - Quote I'm sure I'm going to get flamed massively for this, but I don't think raw damage is the issue. I think it feels like it is because of a mix of it being a lot harder to aim this build compared to last and everyone running proto/complex builds due to having all their isk back. Moving around feels so much heavier this build. I'm slowly getting used to it and as I am, I'm finding it easier to kill people. It's also getting easier as people start to bleed off their isk and are dropping back to fits they'd normally run rather than dropping like a million isk worth of Proto gear in a match. On the range thing, can you guys check out what's up with the Breach? (Low ROF, high damage one) Rifle. It feels like it has shorter range than an SMG. Also double complex damage mod Proto Tac rifles are crazy good, might want to check that :P Everything else is feeling really great though. Game looks really good, sounds amazing. I really hope there's a cool new intro video :)
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries 1216	Posted - 2013.05.10 11:19:00 - [60] - Quote I hate to be the one to say it.....but what is going to be done about the aiming???????? I am glad that ccp is attempting to solve some issues and it shows they are listening but the gamebreaking issue (aiming and sluggish movements) have yet to be addressed.



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