DUST Search - Sticky:Weapon damage model/HMG balance

Vexen Krios wrote:

I personally don't care for or against the HMG nerf or buff...whatever...doesn't bother me. Headshots do wonders. The thing that bugs me is that CCP stated that Heavies were meant to defend an objective, not be the frontline soldiers everyone tried to use them as. CCP didn't mean for militia fit heavies with all bpo gear and a militia HMG to be going 41-3. I could understand a heavy gunning down two assaults depending on who fires first. But if two assaults get the jump on a heavy he should be toast if the Assaults are any good.

Heavies using HMG's should not be running around taking out four man squads and only getting their shields taken out. Heavies and HMG's and scout shotgunners are the current "I win" button. I was in a match the other night where most of the team were minmatar shotgunners....I think that was the race, who ever had the speed bonus, use that scout suit with the speed bonus, a few damage mods and sprint boosters and a shotgun? decimate all.

1.because shotguns can take out 200+ shields and 300+armor with one shot.
2.they jump around like theyre playin freakin halo...who needs gravity?!
3.the speed they currently have (if skilled right I assume) is ridiculous.

They were moving so quick that I couldn't turn my gun fast enough to even lead the shot!! and that was while trying to hip fire. that's insane. But rarely do I complain about anything so there is my small rant.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
NAV HIV The Generals EoN. 206	Posted - 2013.05.10 12:29:00 - [91] - Quote Thank you...
ChromeBreaker SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 450	Posted - 2013.05.10 12:30:00 - [92] - Quote DJINN leukoplast wrote: ChromeBreaker wrote: DJINN leukoplast wrote: Too many heavy buffs... one step at a time please, CCP. Heavies only needed a tiny nudge, that's it. Let those fat turkeys learn how to play their role properly (support) before buffing them due to mass QQ in forums. And +10% damage to all players? Why? It was nice not insta-dying in 1/16th a second. Now it's going back to being insta-killed if exposed for a split second. Dust needs to be more of an arcade shooter, and letting everybody kill eachother 10% faster is not the right choice. ? how would you like them to support ? Sitting back at a taken objective (mmm sounds fun) Or helping the front line shooting marshmellows at the enemy? the 10% bit is right on. Let's see, how about supporting your fellow logi, assault, and even scout shotgun players? You fatboys arent meant to be one-man slayers that can take on anybody and everybody. You are supposed to backup all other classes by laying down blankets of cover fire with your massive amount of of health to distract and injure the enemy player, while the rest of us do our jobs (or actually go AV as you were designed for, but obviously nobody in Dust expects heavies to go AV .. that's like hell, and some place freezing over ). Fatties need to play their roles correctly and stop QQing on the forums to get buffs they don't need or deserve. I agree lol, however we cant put down cover fire or demand attention as the HMG doesnt have the range or dmg. The enemy shoots the assault next to you because theyre more dangerous. Heavies are easily flanked, charge one, one on one, and you deserve to die. get in under the gun or out range him. (well... see how this hot fix works....) ... I run proto Assault FG's... i get get more kills with them then the hmg lol
Dazereth the 2nd Stoned Kloned Killers 33	Posted - 2013.05.10 12:36:00 - [93] - Quote CCP Cmdr Wang wrote: GÇó In the near future, we will address range issues by removing the hard stop that currently takes place at maximum weapon range. Hopefully soon, it's unplayable. Please increase AR range to mid-range. There are short range and long range weapons, but no mid-range weapons. I can throw a grenade further than the max range on the ARs.
DJINN leukoplast Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 423	Posted - 2013.05.10 12:37:00 - [94] - Quote ChromeBreaker wrote: I agree lol, however we cant put down cover fire or demand attention as the HMG doesnt have the range or dmg. The enemy shoots the assault next to you because theyre more dangerous. Heavies are easily flanked, charge one, one on one, and you deserve to die. get in under the gun or out range him. (well... see how this hot fix works....) ... I run proto Assault FG's... i get get more kills with them then the hmg lol I don't enjoy being forge sniped any more than the next player, but at least you are prepared to take on some kind of vehicle (that is if the vehicle is more intriguing than the infantry player )
Kharga Lum Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 47	Posted - 2013.05.10 12:39:00 - [95] - Quote Will the ranges for hand held weapons be displayed in their profile?
ChromeBreaker SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 450	Posted - 2013.05.10 12:41:00 - [96] - Quote DJINN leukoplast wrote: ChromeBreaker wrote: I agree lol, however we cant put down cover fire or demand attention as the HMG doesnt have the range or dmg. The enemy shoots the assault next to you because theyre more dangerous. Heavies are easily flanked, charge one, one on one, and you deserve to die. get in under the gun or out range him. (well... see how this hot fix works....) ... I run proto Assault FG's... i get get more kills with them then the hmg lol I don't enjoy being forge sniped any more than the next player, but at least you are prepared to take on some kind of vehicle (that is if the vehicle is more intriguing than the infantry player ) If it helps its a little more difficult atm, you dont show up so easily on the overview, and of course the general aiming difficulties we're having. Vehicle hunting is back to being a bit more of a skill.
martinofski Rebelles A Quebec Orion Empire 83	Posted - 2013.05.10 12:43:00 - [97] - Quote DJINN leukoplast wrote: ChromeBreaker wrote: DJINN leukoplast wrote: Too many heavy buffs... one step at a time please, CCP. Heavies only needed a tiny nudge, that's it. Let those fat turkeys learn how to play their role properly (support) before buffing them due to mass QQ in forums. And +10% damage to all players? Why? It was nice not insta-dying in 1/16th a second. Now it's going back to being insta-killed if exposed for a split second. Dust needs to be more of an arcade shooter, and letting everybody kill eachother 10% faster is not the right choice. ? how would you like them to support ? Sitting back at a taken objective (mmm sounds fun) Or helping the front line shooting marshmellows at the enemy? the 10% bit is right on. Let's see, how about supporting your fellow logi, assault, and even scout shotgun players? You fatboys arent meant to be one-man slayers that can take on anybody and everybody. You are supposed to backup all other classes by laying down blankets of cover fire with your massive amount of of health to distract and injure the enemy player, while the rest of us do our jobs (or actually go AV as you were designed for, but obviously nobody in Dust expects heavies to go AV .. that's like hell, and some place freezing over ). Fatties need to play their roles correctly and stop QQing on the forums to get buffs they don't need or deserve. You understand that from the moment everyone know that HMG make nothing more than a scary Heavy gun sound with nothing to back it off, your covering fire is damn useless. We don't want slayers, just something we can also earn some points with. Give me point for making covering fire then, even though I don't kill anything, I'll be making covering fire from the MCC lol since this isnt even fun Heavy being a covering fire role only to attact the attention and spounge bullet is a misconception from the other player who think this is what it should be really. From BRP description, it shouldn't be like that... Heavy Weapons are a different animal altogether, and can only be wielded by mercenaries in heavy dropsuits. They also tend to utilize a high amount of dropsuit power, making them unsuitable for a more GÇ£generalistGÇ¥ approach to your weapon and equipment load out. They are, however, devastating in the right hands, and heavy gunners are feared across battlefields the galaxy over. Where is the fear it should bring now? Also said the dropsuit should survive going toe-to-toe against vehicles...lol to that. I am getting rolled over by LAv more easily than other suits since I can run away.
Heavy Breaks Ill Omens EoN. 43	Posted - 2013.05.10 12:45:00 - [98] - Quote Yay! I'm so glad I stick with my HMG! Thank you CCP.
ReGnUM Public Relations Imperfects Public Relations 208	Posted - 2013.05.10 12:58:00 - [99] - Quote Keeping it classy Mr Wangster
Vexen Krios The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION 5	Posted - 2013.05.10 13:07:00 - [100] - Quote I personally don't care for or against the HMG nerf or buff...whatever...doesn't bother me. Headshots do wonders. The thing that bugs me is that CCP stated that Heavies were meant to defend an objective, not be the frontline soldiers everyone tried to use them as. CCP didn't mean for militia fit heavies with all bpo gear and a militia HMG to be going 41-3. I could understand a heavy gunning down two assaults depending on who fires first. But if two assaults get the jump on a heavy he should be toast if the Assaults are any good. Heavies using HMG's should not be running around taking out four man squads and only getting their shields taken out. Heavies and HMG's and scout shotgunners are the current "I win" button. I was in a match the other night where most of the team were minmatar shotgunners....I think that was the race, who ever had the speed bonus, use that scout suit with the speed bonus, a few damage mods and sprint boosters and a shotgun? decimate all. 1.because shotguns can take out 200+ shields and 300+armor with one shot. 2.they jump around like theyre playin freakin halo...who needs gravity?! 3.the speed they currently have (if skilled right I assume) is ridiculous. They were moving so quick that I couldn't turn my gun fast enough to even lead the shot!! and that was while trying to hip fire. that's insane. But rarely do I complain about anything so there is my small rant.

Pugnacious Squirrel Planetary Response Organization 0	Posted - 2013.05.10 13:09:00 - [101] - Quote Give me a break. If they are essentially giving everyone their weaponry bonus back then EVERY weapon should get it. I am really tiring of all these heavies crying. ChromeBreaker wrote: WAIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please please dont say its a blanket +10% !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Tactical AR's dont need it. Forge guns dont need it Grenades dont need it!!!!!!!!!!!!! PLEASE be careful with this! HMG i can understand but 10% might mess with everything else
hydraSlav's Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 102	Posted - 2013.05.10 13:10:00 - [102] - Quote These changes sound awesome
ChromeBreaker SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 450	Posted - 2013.05.10 13:13:00 - [103] - Quote Pugnacious Squirrel wrote: Give me a break. If they are essentially giving everyone their weaponry bonus back then EVERY weapon should get it. I am really tiring of all these heavies crying. ChromeBreaker wrote: WAIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please please dont say its a blanket +10% !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Tactical AR's dont need it. Forge guns dont need it Grenades dont need it!!!!!!!!!!!!! PLEASE be careful with this! HMG i can understand but 10% might mess with everything else They are giving everything the bonus. thats the problem lol
Dazereth the 2nd Stoned Kloned Killers 35	Posted - 2013.05.10 13:16:00 - [104] - Quote Vexen Krios wrote: I personally don't care for or against the HMG nerf or buff...whatever...doesn't bother me. Headshots do wonders. The thing that bugs me is that CCP stated that Heavies were meant to defend an objective, not be the frontline soldiers everyone tried to use them as. CCP didn't mean for militia fit heavies with all bpo gear and a militia HMG to be going 41-3. I could understand a heavy gunning down two assaults depending on who fires first. But if two assaults get the jump on a heavy he should be toast if the Assaults are any good. Heavies using HMG's should not be running around taking out four man squads and only getting their shields taken out. Heavies and HMG's and scout shotgunners are the current "I win" button. I was in a match the other night where most of the team were minmatar shotgunners....I think that was the race, who ever had the speed bonus, use that scout suit with the speed bonus, a few damage mods and sprint boosters and a shotgun? decimate all. 1.because shotguns can take out 200+ shields and 300+armor with one shot. 2.they jump around like theyre playin freakin halo...who needs gravity?! 3.the speed they currently have (if skilled right I assume) is ridiculous. They were moving so quick that I couldn't turn my gun fast enough to even lead the shot!! and that was while trying to hip fire. that's insane. But rarely do I complain about anything so there is my small rant. Agreed, these speed scouts need to be nerfed. I watched a guy in a scout kit sprint around nova knifing everyone, like this was bloody halo.
Thog A Kuma Planetary Response Organisation 77	Posted - 2013.05.10 13:19:00 - [105] - Quote [lots of snarky peevish comments I have no business making about CCP that they don't deserve to hear, I know you are trying and are working hard] It seems like you guys are kinda knee jerking, chill out. y'all changed a large # of variables all at once. You should have left game play essentially the same and just improved the visuals (then rolled out your balance changes) , but what is done is done, good luck. SirManBoy wrote: The mass driver needs some serious TLC. Some arbitrary 10% buff isn't going to adequately address its extensive list of new shortcomings, including its damage (it needs far more than a 10% buff), its splash area, and its aiming. In its current state, the mass driver is a hot mess that no longer commands any respect on the battlefield, which means all of its tactical value is gone. This is especially true for logi bros who used it to enhance their support role. A mass driver used to scare people away long enough to make revives, throw down nanos, and make repairs. This is no longer the case. Are there 200 MD players? is it that there aren't many of us so we (logically) aren't a very high priority? CCP, you didn't even mention you were feeling like taking the nurf bat to the MD, now there are us tiny insignificant portion of your player base stuck tossing water balloons at power-lifters wondering where all our bruises came from. There have been a few mostly troll free threads on the MD detailing the misleading visual smoke trail the misplaced and/or miss timed explosion at the end. we've mentioned that our oponents seem to be able to jump over our damage. We've mentioned that the accumulated effect of nurfing nanohive, adding to peoples shield tanking, and severely limiting scan resolution (the only other weapon nearly as hurt by surprise encounters is the FG but at least the heavy cannot kill himself), with all the overt nurfs to our weapon you have kinda made us a joke. heck, when I do manage to kill someone you removed the sound effect and his body disappears so we very often have to go looking through our smoke screen to make sure he's really dead. Can you please throw us a bone and explain the thought process behind the MD nurf, what do you see the MD roll as in the future?
Disturbingly Bored Universal Allies Inc. 196	Posted - 2013.05.10 13:28:00 - [106] - Quote Thanks for listening CCP! The gun game is going to feel much more like the last build this way. (Sans sharpshooter.) Honestly, I sorely missed the 10% Weaponry bonus. Guns just felt squishy and less lethal overall in Uprising, and this will help address it. HMG is a doorkicker/near-range bruiser again, which suits me just fine.
Joey-Number1 Maniacal Miners INC The Omega Industries 41	Posted - 2013.05.10 13:28:00 - [107] - Quote Wait thanks for this CCP but what about our nanohives.. I know its done to specialize into them, but its quite frustrating when those advance and prototype variants which has the best range of different kinds requires like 60 to 90 CPU and to 16 PG... Please do something about it and offer at least some variants on advanced tier that can carry 3 and 2 active nanohives.. the main issue with this is the CPU and PG requirements the skilling into them isn't. I don't mind other items that much as nanohives.
Dis Cord Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 88	Posted - 2013.05.10 13:31:00 - [108] - Quote I have to say, these changes do not address the core problem of range for the HMG (and indeed, all weapons). This is by far the biggest issue. You're going to release PC with heavies and tanks still non-viable??? This is an enormous mistake. I know, May 14th, 5-14, hurr durr! Seriously though, the core game mechanics have been fubarred with Uprising. You need more drastic fixes to release such a major game component.
Aighun Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 839	Posted - 2013.05.10 13:31:00 - [109] - Quote All good news. Especially about the upcoming changes to how damage will work over range. The 10 % overall increase in weaon damage will set a new baseline which should be an improvement on where we are right now. The new baseline should be a better place to start out from when dialing down damage to achieve better weapon balance.
Sponglyboy Squaredoo Not Guilty EoN. 23	Posted - 2013.05.10 13:32:00 - [110] - Quote Joey-Number1 wrote: Wait thanks for this CCP but what about our nanohives.. I know its done to specialize into them, but its quite frustrating when those advance and prototype variants which has the best range of different kinds requires like 60 to 90 CPU and to 16 PG... Please do something about it and offer at least some variants on advanced tier that can carry 3 and 2 active nanohives.. the main issue with this is the CPU and PG requirements the skilling into them isn't. I don't mind other items that much as nanohives. Yeah nanohives also deserve a upgrade

Scramble Scrub Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 165	Posted - 2013.05.10 13:55:00 - [111] - Quote Yay, more pew pew pew!
Beren Hurin OMNI Endeavors 434	Posted - 2013.05.10 13:58:00 - [112] - Quote It would be nice to know how dispersion interacts with falloff... Is it a direct cone of spread? My MD doesn't care so much, but I think others might. Could your dispersion be such that even inside your optimals, the full cone of spread hits outside a normal suit's width effectively reducing damage amount below 100%?
Iskandar Zul Karnain Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 381	Posted - 2013.05.10 14:02:00 - [113] - Quote Thank you CCP! For the second time since the 6th I'm excited to play. Great job with the hotfix; I really did not expect these results so quickly.
Alina Heart DIOS EX. Gentlemen's Agreement 117	Posted - 2013.05.10 14:21:00 - [114] - Quote ChromeBreaker wrote: WAIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please please dont say its a blanket +10% !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Tactical AR's dont need it. Forge guns dont need it Grenades dont need it!!!!!!!!!!!!! PLEASE be careful with this! HMG i can understand but 10% might mess with everything else Tacticals are still the same as they were when we had the weaponry skill, this applies to all weapons in fact. Consider this going back to Chromosome DMG levels, which was balanced. Direct Damage on Forge guns and Grenades have always been OHKO's.
Cygnus 2112 D3LTA FORC3 Orion Empire 5	Posted - 2013.05.10 14:40:00 - [115] - Quote +1 Thanks for listening CCP. I dont usually play as a heavy but if their listening to this perhaps there is hope Dust can regain its former awesomeness.
Jak'Saan 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 4	Posted - 2013.05.10 14:44:00 - [116] - Quote Sweet! This explains what happened to my beloved breach.
Jin Robot Polar Gooks 424	Posted - 2013.05.10 14:50:00 - [117] - Quote I hope everyone that was rude to CCP feels bad and I hope they also will have more faith and patience now. It is less than a week into the build and they are already resolving issues. CCP, you guys are pretty tops as far as game devs go.
Lucivar Athonille Planetary Response Organisation 0	Posted - 2013.05.10 14:58:00 - [118] - Quote CCP listens It's why we love CCP Please keep it up friend
Atticus Wolf ROGUE SPADES EoN. 18	Posted - 2013.05.10 14:58:00 - [119] - Quote This is an excellent step in the right direction. Now can we have our old aiming system back too. I am not sure what happened to the aiming system ... Point detection, smaller hit boxes...... Can't put my finger on it but it is not the same. The new system is a downgrade as I end up dancing a lot with people at close range and can't hit at medium/long, I know my corp mates are experiencing the same thing. I know the extra damage will help but that aiming system was just better in chromosome. I will also voice my concern about giving the TAC AR more damage, that thing is beast
TECH-SARGE Talon Strike Force LTD Orion Empire 3	Posted - 2013.05.10 15:02:00 - [120] - Quote Still i feel little change after a few games, the HMG still seems to be a paper gun compared to tac AR. I think you got it all wrong, tac AR should do low damage but have more range than normal AR and HMG should have huge damage output and low range spread gets bad after 100m. Nothing feels changed. I do appreciate them trying to hotfix, but the buff should have happened for certain things not all. Good Luck CCP Also think about the matchmaking system whole teams of noobs are going up against whole team of proto players this has to change drastically.



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