I got confused with the "Remove Base, Advanced, and Prototype Frames" part. Can you use an example, like Amarr medium frames and its specialization, which tiers will be available in the basic frames, and which tiers will be available in the specializations?

A major discrepancy right now is that in almost every situation the Proto Basic frame outperforms any T2 variant except for the Proto T2.

That is, a Caldari Assault C/1 is outperformed by a Proto Caldari Medium Frame. You see 0 benefit for speccing into T2 suits until you have spent 3mil SP. There is no progression. It is Proto or nothing on the T2 end.

A major discrepancy right now is that in almost every situation the Proto Basic frame outperforms any T2 variant except for the Proto T2.

That is, a Caldari Assault C/1 is outperformed by a Proto Caldari Medium Frame. You see 0 benefit for speccing into T2 suits until you have spent 3mil SP. There is no progression. It is Proto or nothing on the T2 end.

Hence The whole idea in the first place, Day 1 assault suit in this new layout would have the same exact bonuses localized bonuses as the previous frame but similar to the previous frame the fittings will be limited until you raise the skill up further.

(With no tree changes)

Old Progression:
Amarr Heavy Militia Suit
Amarr heavy suit A-1
Amarr Heavy Suit A/1
Amarr Heavy Suit Ak. 0
Amarr Sentinel suit A-1
Amarr Sentinel A/1 Suit
Amarr Sentinel Ak.0

This idea's new progression:
Amarr Heavy Militia Suit
Amarr Heavy Suit
Amarr Sentinel Suit.

Level of the suit skill will increase the quality of gear that can be fitted onto the suit, at lvl 1 the frame may only be able to support close to full base modules, at lvl 5 it can support a mix of prototype and advanced modules.

This could be alleviated by changing the specialized requirements from linear to a tandem approach

For Assault this means:

Assault I needs Medium I
Assault II needs Medium II
Assault n needs Medium n

This would allow to preserve the STD=>ADV=>PRO situation and allow players to decide between faster specialization and overall performance. It also allows for more gradual progress than the current system.

So the specializations will only have 1 tier available equivalent to prototype.
Will the basic frame version also be prototype equivalent?
What will the militia be equivalent to?
(I reorganized your progression example to better understand)

Militia suits in this progression will be reworked to the following:
Limited Fittings but similar slot layout as the Military Grade Frames.
No Per Level Bonus
No Skill Requirement
Host of strong (25-40%!) 'built-in' bonuses that sample's that suit's future progression.

Do you imagine those bonuses to reflect the possible specilizations or rather to point to the basic suits?

If it's the former i can see how people will fit all "bonused" modules and mask the "gimped" nature such a suit would have otherwise, if fitting attributes allow for it.

Don't take away the Logi Sidearm. I know there are a lot of Caldari logis running around like Assault+1 but don't punish the whole suit class. Logistics + Mass Drivers is like peanut butter and jelly. (Nerfed jelly)

This is why I noted there is range bonus for side arms and the needs for a better side arms bunch such as carbine rifles.

This is why I noted there is range bonus for side arms and the needs for a better side arms bunch such as carbine rifles.

Logis:

Well if you've been around the past days you already KNOW im against Logis being the most powerful suits. Here are some objective and FAIR ways that the drop suits could be balanced.

1st Option: Leave them as they are, but have a BIG CPU/PG decrease. Also replace the Path skill :+1HP to dropsuit armor rep rate , TO : 5% CPU/PG REDUCTION of equipment per level.

2nd Option:Limit the weapons they can use so people dont abuse Logi armors as Assault v.2.0. Weapons could be Sidearms, Laser rifles, Plasma cannons,shotguns,swarm launchers. No assault type weapons and no sniper rifles.

3rd option, have individual Balance tweaks to each suit:
Logi Min:- +0.2 speed increase.
- Minus one equipment slot.
Logi Cal: -Change= ''+5% efficiency to shield extenders per level ''/ To = '' +3% efficiency to shield extenders per level''
- 8 slots. take out 1 low powered slot [--]. Total 5-3
-Increase the Depleted shield recharge to 8s.
Logi Amarr:- 10 - 20 More Armor
- one more equipment slot
- 10 more stamina
Logi Gal:- 8 more stamina
- Sield recharge rate to 12 per s

SCOUTS:
The scouts got a huge nerf. The Proto suit from chromosome had a total of 6 slots (3 and 3) and now the maximum total is 5 slots for scouts. Any reason the scout s needed a NERF? And while all other suits got more powerful the scout is now even weaker.

Possible Fix:

-Both Drop Suits: Change Shield depleted time to 6s.
If speed is their thing, make them REAL speedy, + 0.2 in both movement and sprinting speed.

Scout Gal. Give them a High powered [ | ] Slot. That should make the trick . Total slots 6. ( 2 [ | ] and 4 [--] )
Scout Min. Give them Another High powered slot [ | ]. Total 6.. ( 4 [ | ] and 2 [--] )

Heavy:
The heavy is another weird case. Somehow the fact it now has 405 both shield and armor makes it gain great passive bonuses. They are cheaper , so thats good. But the fact that proto Logi suits can tank more and better than the heavy just beats its purpose.They are supposed to be he most powerful drop suits in terms of Resistance.

Possible Fix:
-1 High Powered slot [ | ]. Making it ( 2 [ | ] and 4 [--] ). If logis have so much slots because they dont have sidearms, Heavies deserve one more at least for not being able to carry equipment)
-Replace The +2% Heavy weapon Reload Speed. That path bonus is ******** since there is already a skill to do that and heavy weapons will always be slow to reload anyways. Instead put something usefull, like: +2% Armor Damage resistance. Similar like what Vehicles have, this skill would make that at level 5 of the Amarr heavy path the Soldier would receive 10% LESS DAMAGE FROM ALL WEAPONS while being hit (Applies only to armor, not shields). Not only would this make the suit a lot more attractive but actually worth in completing the whole Amarr Heavy path and give these drop suits a chance in the battlefield.As it is the bonuses of the heavy suit are just crap.
-Slight CPU/PG increase

Assaults:

The assault suits are pretty much balanced at the moment. They all have 7 slots except the Amarr that has 6.
Some minor twiches and they would be fine.

All assaults:Assaults are , well , offensive units. They need speed in order to be offensive. + 0.2 increase in speed too all assault suits. except Minmatar. Minmatar +0.2 movement speed and +0.1 sprinting speed.

Assault Minmatar: Increase Stamina to 200. Depleted Shield recharge to 8s.Shield recharge rate to 15/s.
Assault Caldari:I think the drop suit is balanced.With the speed increase they would do great.
Assault AMARR: Since they have as path bonus, something that benefits LASERS, a now almost useless weapon, give them 1 more equipment slot.
Assault Gal:I think the drop suit is balanced.With the speed increase they would do great.

I am not trying to 'nerf' the logi but encourage more of a support and assist role, not combat kings.

I am very open to the idea of giving them dual wield with the side arms. (provided they're one hand operational)

It will be a mix that supposed to help theme what what those size of suits are about. Military grade suits will outstrip the militia's in terms of equipment they can bring out but the performance of the militia wont be too terribly so far behind.

Concerning the MLT bonuses, allow me to refrain my earlier point.

You stated:

I can extract two meanings for that:

1. Generic bonuses that teaches how to fit that size/race before taking the later specilization into consideration.
2. Specific bonuses to certain modules that are supposed to show what that size is supposed to do later on.

The former could be composed in such a way that taking advantage of all of them is encouraged and intended to teach competent fitting.

The latter would need carefull balance as to not encourage hybrid builds that may stop beeing viable once we reach Military grade suits.

Of course this can very well be intended as a first lesson of specilization. I'm interested what you think about that.

Edit: Note to cosgar. Imagine what a potent range bonus would do to the flaylock.

Mass Driver = Support
Logistics = Support

I don't know what else I can say on the topic. Wait until other dedicated logibros find out about this. Check my character sheet. I have a ~0.95 KDR, I'm not a slayer, I'm support. When I'm not repping, reviving, and resupplying, I'm giving covering fire with grenade rounds to pin down enemies so the slayers in my squad can flank. They've already taken that away from me with the ninja MD nerf and I'm trying to find more creative and strategic ways to use it. Everyone has their last straw and this is mine. Take away my mass driver and I quit.

Besides, have you seen how good some of the sidearms now. You think limiting logis is going to stop these new killer bees? Give them a few weeks and we'll be right here again talking about this, and I'll say "I told you so." Go ahead and give them dual wield and extra sidearm range, that'll get us here faster.

Flaylock = Side Arm Mass Driver, and based on Fan fest was superior in damage and damage application in exception to range.

So basically you're saying that skilling into a dropsuit would simply allow you to fit better level modules? You keep the STD, ADV and PRO determined by the modules equipped instead? I REALLY like this idea.

With this idea, how would ISK prices work? Because right now there is quite a difference between the price of a standard and prototype suit.

Also most this stuff sounds wonderful, especially how each Tech 2 suit would get a different slot configuration than the tech 1s, which is a big problem right now. What time frame are we talking though for when such a thing could be implemented?

If they changed the slots to sidearm I would expect another respec because I know my fellow Caldari Logistics people would hate to be stuck with a sidearm. Personally I haven't even gotten to play yet because update 3.04 keeps getting 80710723 error before finishing then making me start from the beginning.

After a bit of thought, I'm good with the skill change and advanced/proto removal (only for suits though, it MUST stay for gear). The skill system you propose would make having multiple suits of each class workable like EVE ships, and increases the value of the skills, which are kind of underwhelming as it.
Current advanced and proto could maybe come back with the player market in the form of faction army and pirate gear from limited rewards. Nubs earn it, sell it to vets for a windfall, and we use it for those special occasions for that edge.

I really need to recommend you stop defending the idea of sidearm only logi, Wolf. It isn't a good one, let it die man. A reason isn't needed as an excuse, just advocate straight up for more variety of sidearms (and heavy weapons), but don't just give something up as a pressure to get them.

If you're really hung up on a sidearm logi with appropriate bonuses, push for it to be a Type-II, or Type-III even, and let the meta decide what's more awesome.

Wait, isn't the Caldari Logi the real problem?

I don't mean to sound snarky when I ask that, I am just wondering what your end goal for this thread/idea is? Simply to see if people like it, or to try and get CCp to act on it?

Well I am in a difficult pickle of how to lower the combat edge of the logistics that would not compromise the entire suit. The Logistics Suit's Tank, Utility, and Flexibility of the suit is far too crucial to ignore as the class's niche own attributes but the simple fact its far too good in combat with the damage output... I am open to other ideas on tuning the damage output down without making the class useless.

You're aware IWS is a member of the CPM, right?

While I agree that there is a problem with the logistics dropships compared with the assault ones, I disagree that the solution are the changes to logi that you proposed.

I've been playing with a logi + MD for six months. I have now Minmatar Logi 3 and MD Proficiency 4, but if the Light weapon slot in logi suits becomes a second side arm slot, I will stop using logi dropsuits altogether, retrain as assault and carry on using the mass driver.

At first I will only have one equipment slot for the nanoinjector, later with the second slot I will be able to fit the nanohives. In the end, I will be using an assault suit as a basic/gimped logi, but increasing my combat capabilities. It would simply reverse the current situation having people use an assault suit to perform support duties.

You may think that there can't be such a big difference between using a medium range weapon as the carabine you suggested and a MD, but what is going to happen is that assault suits will be killing logis with total impunity with tactical rifles.

It is frustrating as it is already with the 66% area nerf to MDs which make it extremely hard to hit anything further away than 50m, if I didn't even have the option of using a MD, I would just not bother using logi suits when I can get most of the joy I get from res-ing and resupplying my teammates with an assault suite without having to give up the light weapon. I would even gain a side arm slot for a flaylock or a SMG. The One or Two extra equipment slots alone would not be worth the price to pay for using logi dropsuits.

The best solution in my opinion is the obvious one, and it has been suggested further up.

Take High and/or Low slots from the logi (depending on racial flavour), and/or reduce the CPU and PG output, give them a role bonus that reduces the CPU and PG cost of equipment and suddenly assault suits become relevant again.

Agreed with everything you said as a *former* Mass Driver user, only I think the solution is to improve the Assault suits rather then nerf the Logi suits.

Yes, I am wondering if this is something he is actually trying to get CCP to do or if this is just an idea he is kicking around. If it is something he is trying to push, how much does he actually think they would change to their core system?

EDIT: Wait wait, I ****ing got it, how you can have your cake IWS. Ships in EVE can have bonuses like "20% reduced CPU need for Cloaking Devices per level". Leave the light and sidearm slots as is, add a bonus (either straight or divided by level) "90% reduced CPU and Powergrid need for Sidearms", and cut the suit's CPU/PG by one sidearms worth. You can run the same fit you have right now, OR have more CPU/PG available by running two Sidearms instead. Options expanded, no nerfs!

Yes, I am wondering if this is something he is actually trying to get CCP to do or if this is just an idea he is kicking around. If it is something he is trying to push, how much does he actually think they would change to their core system?

at what point did we get tech 2 suits or modules? all i see on market are tech 1 variants, std,adv and proto ,just like in eve. surely if we had tech 2 it would say that on the mod,weapon,suits.and if what we have now is supposedly t2 then this game is dumbing down far to much .maybe its just my perspective, but i want a game that will allow my char to grow, i would like to spend time getting into a real t2 suit , with maybe t2 resists and t2 bonuses. what we have now is just t1 stuff with added sp sinks to try and slow players progression. the proto basic frames are like buying a cruiser without any bonuses and the specialized suits are no different to standard t1 ships . t2 would be what we have now but with another set of bonuses . imagine a t2 heavy with bonuses to maybe tanking Hav damage long enough to stand toe to toe for a Short time and not being one shotted ,maybe a logi suit that actually improved remote rep rates or a revive% increase .of course non of this can happen if the game is simplified any more.

Minmatar Medium Frame

Starts with 100 PG/CPU (example numbers), all other stats apart from bonuses the same as Aurum Frame.

Minmatar Medium Frame Skill Bonus: 10% to PG/CPU and 5% to ammo capacity per level

Minmatar Medium Aurum Frame

Starts with 120 PG/CPU (example numbers), all other stats apart form bonuses the same as Normal Frame.

Minmatar Medium Frame Skill Bonus: 5% to PG/CPU and 5% to ammo capacity per level

Minmatar Assault Frame

Minmatar Medium Frame Skill Bonus: 10% to PG/CPU and 5% to ammo capacity per level

Minmatar Assault Frame Skill Bonus: 3% to Projectile Weapon Damage and 3% Clip Size Bonus per level

Minmatar Aurum Assault Frame

Minmatar Medium Frame Skill Bonus: 10% to PG/CPU and 5% to ammo capacity per level

Minmatar Assault Frame Skill Bonus: 3% to Projectile Weapon Damage per level

Role bonus: 15% increase to Weapon Clip Size

I've been thinking more about how Aurum suits would fit in to a Dust where there's only a single tier of suits, and using my previous post's example figures I've come up with a rough idea:



In the above example the Aurum suit is better than the normal suit until Minmatar Medium Frame V is trained where upon both suits function exactly the same. It gives people an incentive to buy Aurum suits while not giving them an advantage over people who have specialised in to the same role, the same situation as now.



Again, the Aurum suit is better than the normal suit until Minmatar Assault Frame V is trained where upon they both function exactly the same.

Also in your first post you mention resist bonuses, I would shy away from suggesting these to CCP, except on maybe the Sentinel, as they offer very little over an HP increase on medium and light dropsuits and would just confuse people.

Resist bonuses do three things:
- Increase HP
- Improve your local active tank
- Improve the effectiveness of remote reps being use on you

In dropsuit frontline combat local reppers and remote reppers make very little impact, except in a Heavy-Logi pairing, so for medium and light frames I'd like CCP to balance their tank through HP adjustments only.

I am not trying to 'nerf' the logi but encourage more of a support and assist role, not combat kings.

I am very open to the idea of giving them dual wield with the side arms. (provided they're one hand operational)

What you overlooked is
1: akimbo flalocks will make all logos op

2: you fail to address the real problem that caldary logis have 90 billion high slots you don't solve that by giving it akimbo flalocks you solve that by taking away some of the high slots

3: since all sidearms are close range and even though the logi is a support suit it has to be a versitile combat unit I'm not saying it's ok to have the op caldari logi but the have to be able to be versitile in order to heal and revive his teammates in a mid-range combat situations without being a living target what I'm saying is the logi needs a light weapon otherwise it wont be able to support in mid-range combat without getting killed

4: As a logibro I can't stress this enough THE CALDARI LOGI IS EFFING OP however I run a gallante logi with enhanced armour plates and I only have about 25 more armour than a gallante unmodded gallante assault is that op? No it isn't neather is the minmatar or ammar logi so why bother them.

5: why yet rid of an equipment slot when you can put remote explosives there to increase combat effectiveness or use that spare slot for nanohives to make sure your teammates never run out of ammo or even use that spare slot for an active scanner to mark targets for your teammates.

After reading this you will hopefully understand why your suggestion is terrible and unbeleavably flawed

By the way (and this part will blow your mind) I'm 12

Removing Basic, Advanced, and Prototype suits, making sure every suit has a special feel to it, and keeping the monetezation in to keep the business going are the highlight points of the idea.

Idea Update:
At the suggestion early feedback removed all 'Fitting' (High/Low) slots. Its better for CCP to figure that one out.

I really didn't think there was anything wrong with the current suit layout to be honest...... Whats a bigger problem in my opinion is the racial suit SP requirement. It takes 1.8 million SP to get the proto basic suit for a race, but it takes an additional 3 million just to get the same suit with a small specialized bonus. That's a bit much I think..... and in addition to that I think they could work on the market UI for suits, between AUR gear, and other gear, it all comes out to one big confusing list.

It's baffling that CCP have went with a tiered system for DUST while actively trying to remove the tiers from EVE.

A tiered system just creates a lot of useless items that nobody uses after they've skilled up enough, every item, except militia stuff, should have its place on the battlefield regardless of skill level.

The prototype, advanced and standard system works for weapons as the higher performing gear comes with massive fitting penalties, more advanced dropsuits don't have any penalty and are objectionably better than less advanced dropsuits.

I think removing standard/advanced/prototype suits and just giving the one suit better CPU/PG as you upgrade the skill will create the same problem we have now where you get to the tech 2 standard and it feels like you are starting over.

The CPU/PG bonus is reliant on the Medium Frame skill, not the specialized Assault suit skill. With the Assault suits you get two sets of bonuses (like in EVE), one reliant on the basic Medium Frame skill and one reliant on the Assault suit skill. To use Assault suits you must already have the prerequisite Medium Frame skill at V so you would get the full bonus to PG/CPU straight away in my examples.

It is a bit confusingly worded but that's the way it's done in EVE with tech II ships so that's why I wrote it that way. Perhaps the prerequisite skills should just be role bonuses in the description (or built in to the suit in regards to the PG/CPU bonus) as that would be far easier to understand.

Don't take away the Logi Sidearm. I know there are a lot of Caldari logis running around like Assault+1 but don't punish the whole suit class. Logistics + Mass Drivers is like peanut butter and jelly. (Nerfed jelly)

+1

To Iron wolf,

Hell No, dude I can tell you never served in the military. Simply because, in the real army where big boys and girls shoot real weapons at each other. The Logibro/Medic is going to carry a sidearm and a combat rifle/shotgun.


Please, stop with these silly ideas, CCP has more than enough on their plates now. Also, since when did the CPM get the power to affect/change game balance. I thought you guys were just implementing the voting system.

Sorry I come from the part of the military where everyone is a firefighter/damage control first and whatever sailor second. Only the Master at Arms, watch standers, Boatswain Mates and if any Seals have weapons aboard.

External weapon of the day 50 cal MGs and up.

Interior weapons of the day M9 Pistols and whatever SMGs the seals pick for themselves and probably 12 ga. shotguns as well.

Our medics defiantly have no weapons. Unless you want to count water and sharp knives.

My job in the military was quality of assurance for delivery of force, ensuring that a 2000 lbs bomb lands perfectly on the target with no issue.

Also anyone that looks to RL for balance should be fired off the balance team off the bat because if that was the case 1-3 bullets should kill everyone, tanks would be OHK from AV weapons. RL is good for inspiration nothing more in this game. We're not trying to mimic Battle simulator 2014 afterall.

No wonder, sorry bro stay on your boat. Because, you no nothing of Land Operations. But, back to my other question. Why are you doing/discussing game balance, this was not in the job description?

+1 to the idea. somehow i think a simplified system such as this brings a subtle form of depth, but thats just me.

while i do have concerns about some of the propositions, i can understand the decision removing the light weapon slot and replacing it with a sidearm so that the logi can focus on his role.

in my honest opinion, the job of a logistics operator would be a pure support role. not with mass drivers or assault rifles , not in terms of providing covering fire towards the enemy , but with distribution of priority in maintaining squad-level efficiency.


why would i support this?

Because i can relate; before uprising, my logistics fit had alot of equipment, but because i had that much equipment, i was concerned that using my Gek- rifle would hinder by ability to do my job and i found using a pistol forced me to focus on my squad's health. (Assault pistols for the win)
i was so focused on my job being a logi as a result, i was constantly favored among my former corp as quote: " a World-class Logi"

Move the repair tool from equipment to a light weapon slot? It would cause a logi to really commit to focusing on logistics. Would the repair tool in its current form be strong enough to justify that kind of change?

i would agree, however doing that would completely render a logi combat-ineffective. example would be a logi separated from his squad, faced up against an enemy soldier? he or she's is boned in all aspects. Logis should have at least something so they have a chance of surviving the encounter.

i think repair tools should remain an equipment slot, however logis arent always Combat medics

Think logistics as the stuff happening beyond the fighting and the bullets flying everywhere; EWar, communications, supply allocation, troop allocation, Vehicle management, they are the ones who can hack an objective better than assault personnel, they are the ones who can defend their allies in the Ewar front better than the others. they are the ones who assist and revive fellow comrades, and they are the ones who can help a tank commander or a pilot perform their jobs a little easier.

No wonder, sorry bro stay on your boat. Because, you no nothing of Land Operations. But, back to my other question. Why are you doing/discussing game balance, this was not in the job description?

All I ask is that logi's keep their rep bonus. No one else is around to do it. Other than that great post, I like the simpler system, but there should be more varients at the the Tech 2 level.

With medium frames having at least 2 E slots will they be able to out logi the logi, as the current game allows for the Sad and Lowly Amarr logi vs.... anyone else.

Minmatar Medium Frame

Minmatar Medium Frame Skill Bonus: 10% to PG/CPU and 5% to ammo carried per level

CPU: 150 (225 at all level V)
PG: 30 (45 at all level V)
Shield: 150
Armour:135
Movement speed: 5.3
Sprint Speed: 7.4
Stamina: 175
Scan profile: 50
Scan precision: 55
Scan radius: 10
High slots:3
Low slots: 2
Equipment slots: 2

Minmatar Assault Frame

Minmatar Assault Frame Skill Bonus: 2% to Projectile Weapon Damage and 3% Clip Size Bonus per level

Role bonus: 25% to ammo carried per level

CPU: 275
PG: 60
Shield: 165
Armour:135
Movement speed: 5.0
Sprint Speed: 7.2
Stamina: 175
Scan profile: 55
Scan precision: 50
Scan radius: 10
High slots: 4
Low slots: 3
Equipment slots: 1

Minmatar Assault Frame (Skirmishing Armour example)

Minmatar Assault Frame Skill Bonus: 2% to Projectile Weapon Damage and 3% Projectile Range per level

Role bonus: 25% to ammo carried per level

CPU: 265
PG: 62
Shield: 100
Armour:185
Movement speed: 4.8
Sprint Speed: 7.8
Stamina: 140
Scan profile: 55
Scan precision: 50
Scan radius: 10
High slots: 3
Low slots: 4
Equipment slots: 1

Minmatar Medium Frame

Minmatar Medium Frame Skill Bonus: 10% to PG/CPU and 5% to ammo carried per level

CPU: 150 (225 at all level V)
PG: 30 (45 at all level V)
Shield: 150
Armour:135
Movement speed: 5.3
Sprint Speed: 7.4
Stamina: 175
Scan profile: 50
Scan precision: 55
Scan radius: 10
High slots:3
Low slots: 2
Equipment slots: 2

Minmatar Logistics Frame (Combat support)

Minmatar Logistics Skill bonus: 5% to nanohive capacity and nanohive replenishment rate per level

Role bonus: 50% reduction to equipment PG/CPU

Light weapon only

CPU: 250
PG: 55
Shield: 90
Armour:150
Movement speed: 5
Sprint Speed: 7
Stamina: 175
Scan profile: 55
Scan precision: 45
Scan radius: 12.5
High slots: 4
Low slots: 4
Equipment slots: 3

Minmatar Logistics Frame (Heavy Armour support)

Minmatar Logistics Skill bonus: 5% to Repair Tool Efficency and 2% to Projectile Weapon Damage per level

Role bonus: 50% reduction to equipment PG/CPU

Sidearm only

CPU: 255
PG: 52
Shield: 140
Armour:90
Movement speed: 5
Sprint Speed: 7
Stamina: 175
Scan profile: 55
Scan precision: 45
Scan radius: 13.5
High slots: 4
Low slots: 4
Equipment slots: 4

Might as well just remove the light weapon slot from scouts and logis, and remove the heavy weapon slot from heavy dropsuits.

Nevermind just delete all classes.


dust.dead.game.

Personal suggestion:

Skill Changes:

Dropsuit Command:
-+The basic operation of dropsuits.
-+2% increased max stamina for all dropsuits per skill level.
-+Unlocks Medium dropsuits at level 1; Light dropsuits at level 2; Heavy dropsuits at level 3; and specializations at level 5.

[Race] [FrameSize] Dropsuits:
-+Skill at operating [Race] [FrameSize] Dropsuits.
GùÿBonuses are moved from the skill to the individual dropsuit.
GùïPrerequisites:
GÇóDropsuit Command 1-3 depending on [FrameSize]

[Specialization] Dropsuits:
-+Skill for the operation of [Specialization] class dropsuits.
GùÿBonuses are moved from the skill to the individual dropsuit.
GùÿThis skill does not govern what racial dropsuits you can use.
GùïPrerequisites:
GÇóDropsuit Command 5
GÇó[ExtraPrerequisiteSkill1] 5
GÇó[ExtraPrerequisiteSkill2] 5

Examples:

Assault Dropsuits:
-+Skill for the operation of Assault class dropsuits.
GùïPrerequisites:
GÇóDropsuit Command 5
GÇóHandheld Weapon Upgrades 5
GÇóDropsuit Biotic Upgrades 5

Logisitics Dropsuits:
-+Skill for the operation of Logistics class dropsuits.
GùïPrerequisites:
GÇóDropsuit Command 5
GÇóDropsuit Engineering 5
GÇóDropsuit Electronics 5

Scout Dropsuits
-+Skill for the operation of Scout class dropsuits.
GùïPrerequisites:
GÇóDropsuit Command 5
GÇóDropsuit Electronics 5
GÇóDropsuit Biotic Upgrades 5

Sentinel Dropsuits:
-+Skill for the operation of Sentinel class dropsuits.
GùïPrerequisites:
GÇóDropsuit Command 5
GÇóDropsuit Armor Upgrades 5
GÇóDropsuit Shield Upgrades 5

---

Dropsuit Changes:

-+Dropsuits do away with STD/ADV/PRO levels; tier systems are bad; all suits should be useful.
-+All dropsuits get two per level bonuses from their operation skills: One for defence, one for offence.
-+Specialization suits get an extra two bonuses from the specialization skill, relevant to the specialization.

Example:

Amarr Medium Dropsuit:
-+General all-purpose dropsuit, suited for almost every purpose, but specializing in none. A jack-of-all-trades frame.
GùÿAmarr Medium Dropsuits skill bonus per level:
-+2% reduction to speed penalty of Armor Plates.
-+5% reduction to heat generated by Laser weaponry.
GùïPrerequisites:
GÇóDropsuit Command 1
GÇóAmarr Medium Dropsuits 1

Amarr Assault Dropsuit:
-+Front-line fighter. Balanced between mobility and offensive capability.
GùÿAmarr Medium Dropsuits skill bonus per level:
-+2% reduction to speed penalty of Armor Plates.
-+5% reduction to heat generated by Laser weaponry.
GùÿAssault Dropsuits skill bonus per level:
-+5% bonus to max stamina and stamina regeneration.
-+2% bonus to efficacy of damage modifiers.
GùïPrerequisites:
GÇóDropsuit Command 5
GÇóAmarr Medium Dropsuits 5
GÇóAssault Dropsuits 1

Amarr Logistics Dropsuit:
-+Support-oriented dropsuit with more PG/CPU, designed to be a force multiplier; part of a team.
GùÿAmarr Medium Dropsuits skill bonus per level:
-+2% reduction to speed penalty of Armor Plates.
-+5% reduction to heat generated by Laser weaponry.
GùÿLogistics Dropsuits skill bonus per level:
-+5% reduction to CPU/PG cost of Equipment.
-+2% bonus to Armor resistance.
GùïPrerequisites:
GÇóDropsuit Command 5
GÇóAmarr Medium Dropsuits 5
GÇóLogistics Dropsuits 1

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This particular system makes specializations independent of race, but you still need the racial dropsuit skill to 5 to use that race of specialized dropsuit. Additionally, with the removal of suit tiers, all dropsuits can be better balanced against one another, and so we get better tactical play with certain suits countering each other more easily than others (it's still mainly down to user skill to take advantage of this however).

The SP sinks are moved from useless skills that don't particularly give anything useful, to skills that aid the suit you're training for (for example, extra speed and CPU for scout suits, who rely on speed and need all the CPU they can get). There's nothing wrong with SP sinks, they just need to give something meaningful in return for each level.

Giving skill bonuses to all suits replicates aspects of the tier system, but in less radical ways than offering extra fittings and/or slots. There's a huge difference between being able to fit one basic mod, and someone else able to get away with three complex ones. Doing away with suit tiers means the difference is only in gear quality and the bonuses from the suit operation skill. This is much more even footing than currently.

I've purposely left out discussing slot layouts and specific stats, because those are down to CCP; but I'd like to see specializations have similar slot counts to basics, but with different distributions to suit the role.
For example:
Caldari Basic suit: 11 slots, 4H/2L/2E + 1 Light, 1 Sidearm and 1 grenade slot.
Caldari Assault suit: 11 slots, 3H/3L/1E + 1 Light, 1 Sidearm and 2 grenade slots.
Caldari Logistics suit: 11 slots, 5H/1L/3E + 1 Light, 1 Sidearm and no grenade slots (or 2 Sidearms).

Well what bonuses logi get is a bit up in the air, I would like to see racial bonuses done but there is only 2 tanking options available and one race doesn't do armor or shield primarily.

The core concept of this idea is fabulous and I love it. My one question, however, is why does the Pilot suit lose HP when the Scout suit retains it? From my perspective I wouldn't view the "Scout" as the "Combat role" of "T2" light suits. (wow, that was a lot of quotation marks)

I would think the scout should specialize even more on stealth, sensor, etc. (and therefore lose HP) especially so if the Pilot suit is losing sensor abilities. It could be said that the Pilot suit wouldn't/shouldn't need the HP because it gets bonuses to vehicles, but I personally feel the loss of the light weapon slot is more than enough justification for it.

Considering we won't have a weapon to swap to when we have to reload, and that most of our combat bonuses will be going to the vehicles, making the pilot frame even less "useful" outside of a vehicle is a bit risky when you'll be inclined to use really expensive equipment on it.

My opinion would be to allow it to be equal to the "T1" in HP and keep everything else the same (Reduce the sensors, stealth capabilities, remove the light weapon, etc). But I only have a minor issue with it and if CCP were to implement everything mostly exactly how you put it I would be A-OK.

Well the idea is to prevent pilot suits from being forward and present fighters and forces them to be in vehicles more. Pilots could possibly run much faster than the scouts for their lowered survivability out of vehicles so they can go about getting another suit changed out or vehicle called down.

Either way many things are up in the air of where they can go from things they trade off to how they are specialized who knows maybe the pilot suit could pick up a light weapons as well or it could be just a racial trait (amarrian?) .