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Restructuring Drop-suit Progression

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Kesi Raae Kaae Much Crying Old Experts 66	Posted - 2013.05.10 15:20:00 - [1] - Quote In EVE it's like this: Rifter (Tech 1 Frigate) Minmatar Frigate Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Small Projectile Turret damage and 7.5% bonus to tracking per level Wolf (Tech II Assault Frigate) Minmatar Frigate Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Small Projectile Turret damage and 7.5% bonus to tracking per level Assault Ships Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Small Projectile Turret Damage per level and 10% bonus to Small Projectile Falloff Range per level So in your example for DUST it would be something like this? Minmatar Medium Frame Minmatar Medium Frame Skill Bonus: 10% to PG/CPU and 5% to ammo capacity per level Minmatar Assault Frame Minmatar Medium Frame Skill Bonus: 10% to PG/CPU and 5% to ammo capacity per level Minmatar Assault Frame Skill Bonus: 3% to Projectile Weapon Damage and 3% Clip Size Bonus per level That means, when using an Assault suit, that even if you only have the Assault Frame Skill to level 1 you'll still benefit from 50% extra fitting and 25% extra ammo due to you having the Medium Frame skill to level V.
Kesi Raae Kaae Much Crying Old Experts 66	Posted - 2013.05.11 18:38:00 - [2] - Quote I've been thinking more about how Aurum suits would fit in to a Dust where there's only a single tier of suits, and using my previous post's example figures I've come up with a rough idea: Quote: Minmatar Medium Frame Starts with 100 PG/CPU (example numbers), all other stats apart from bonuses the same as Aurum Frame. Minmatar Medium Frame Skill Bonus: 10% to PG/CPU and 5% to ammo capacity per level Minmatar Medium Aurum Frame Starts with 120 PG/CPU (example numbers), all other stats apart form bonuses the same as Normal Frame. Minmatar Medium Frame Skill Bonus: 5% to PG/CPU and 5% to ammo capacity per level In the above example the Aurum suit is better than the normal suit until Minmatar Medium Frame V is trained where upon both suits function exactly the same. It gives people an incentive to buy Aurum suits while not giving them an advantage over people who have specialised in to the same role, the same situation as now. Quote: Minmatar Assault Frame Minmatar Medium Frame Skill Bonus: 10% to PG/CPU and 5% to ammo capacity per level Minmatar Assault Frame Skill Bonus: 3% to Projectile Weapon Damage and 3% Clip Size Bonus per level Minmatar Aurum Assault Frame Minmatar Medium Frame Skill Bonus: 10% to PG/CPU and 5% to ammo capacity per level Minmatar Assault Frame Skill Bonus: 3% to Projectile Weapon Damage per level Role bonus: 15% increase to Weapon Clip Size Again, the Aurum suit is better than the normal suit until Minmatar Assault Frame V is trained where upon they both function exactly the same.
Kesi Raae Kaae Much Crying Old Experts 66	Posted - 2013.05.11 18:47:00 - [3] - Quote Also in your first post you mention resist bonuses, I would shy away from suggesting these to CCP, except on maybe the Sentinel, as they offer very little over a ase HP increase on dropsuits and would just confuse people. Resist bonuses do three things: - Increase HP - Improve your local tank - Improve the effectiveness of remote reps being use on you In dropsuit frontline combat local reppers and remote reppers make very little impact, except in a Heavy-Logi pairing, so for medium and light frames I'd like CCP to balance their tank through HP adjustments only.
Kesi Raae Kaae Much Crying Old Experts 66	Posted - 2013.05.12 16:59:00 - [4] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Removing Basic, Advanced, and Prototype suits, making sure every suit has a special feel to it, and keeping the monetezation in to keep the business going are the highlight points of the idea. It's baffling that CCP have went with a tiered system for DUST while actively trying to remove the tiers from EVE. A tiered system just creates a lot of useless items that nobody uses after they've skilled up enough, every item should have its place on the battlefield regardless of skill level.
Kesi Raae Kaae Much Crying Old Experts 69	Posted - 2013.05.12 20:31:00 - [5] - Quote Moonracer2000 wrote: I think removing standard/advanced/prototype suits and just giving the one suit better CPU/PG as you upgrade the skill will create the same problem we have now where you get to the tech 2 standard and it feels like you are starting over. The CPU/PG bonus is reliant on the Medium Frame skill, not the specialized Assault suit skill. With the Assault suits you get two sets of bonuses (like in EVE), one reliant on the basic Medium Frame skill and one reliant on the Assault suit skill. To use Assault suits you must already have the prerequisite Medium Frame skill at V so you would get the full bonus to PG/CPU straight away in my examples. It is a bit confusingly worded but that's the way it's done in EVE with tech II ships so that's why I wrote it that way. Perhaps the prerequisite skills should just be role bonuses in the description (or built in to the suit in regards to the PG/CPU bonus) as that would be far easier to understand.
Kesi Raae Kaae Much Crying Old Experts 69	Posted - 2013.05.13 16:24:00 - [6] - Quote I don't think this thread should get bogged down in the Logistics specifics, the point Iron Wolf is making is that Logistic suits should be specialized in to their role and be slightly weaker than basic medium frames in straight up combat. Similarly Assault suits should be better than basic medium frames in straight up combat but lose out in utility compared to them. The stat changes to the suits he suggested were just an example of how it could be done to better illustrate the wider point of specialization and tiericide.
Kesi Raae Kaae Much Crying Old Experts 70	Posted - 2013.05.16 10:57:00 - [7] - Quote Bumping this thread with more detailed examples, looking at how a Assault dropsuit could compare to a medium dropsuit stats-wise. Quote: Minmatar Medium Frame Minmatar Medium Frame Skill Bonus: 10% to PG/CPU and 5% to ammo carried per level CPU: 150 (225 at all level V) PG: 30 (45 at all level V) Shield: 150 Armour:135 Movement speed: 5.3 Sprint Speed: 7.4 Stamina: 175 Scan profile: 50 Scan precision: 55 Scan radius: 10 High slots:3 Low slots: 2 Equipment slots: 2 Quote: Minmatar Assault Frame Minmatar Assault Frame Skill Bonus: 2% to Projectile Weapon Damage and 3% Clip Size Bonus per level Role bonus: 25% to ammo carried per level CPU: 275 PG: 60 Shield: 165 Armour:135 Movement speed: 5.0 Sprint Speed: 7.2 Stamina: 175 Scan profile: 55 Scan precision: 50 Scan radius: 10 High slots: 4 Low slots: 3 Equipment slots: 1 As you can see from the above examples the Assault suit is tougher and capable of putting out more damage than the basic suit, but it's more reliant on support than the basic frame due to its scan, movemnet and equipment slot weaknesses. Maybe you're reading this and don't like the direction of the Assault suit, maybe you think it should be focused on Armourtanking or skirmishing, well that's the beauty of a tierless system, there can be many different types of suits occupying the same role while not obsoleting each other. Here's another example of what an Assault suit might look like: Quote: Minmatar Assault Frame (Skirmishing Armour example) Minmatar Assault Frame Skill Bonus: 2% to Projectile Weapon Damage and 3% Projectile Range per level Role bonus: 25% to ammo carried per level CPU: 265 PG: 62 Shield: 100 Armour:185 Movement speed: 4.8 Sprint Speed: 7.8 Stamina: 140 Scan profile: 55 Scan precision: 50 Scan radius: 10 High slots: 3 Low slots: 4 Equipment slots: 1 The above example is more focused on armour tanking, it's good sprint speed and range bonus allows it to skirmish, Minmatar style, but its poor stamina and movement speed means its vulnerable to being overwhelmed if you're not careful. Just as the Wolf and Jaguar are two Minmatar Assault ships in EVE which are different to each other while sharing the same general strengths and weaknesses when compared to a Rifter, the above Assault suits are different to each other while sharing the same general weaknesses to a basic medium frame.
Kesi Raae Kaae Much Crying Old Experts 70	Posted - 2013.05.16 11:12:00 - [8] - Quote Now for Logistics examples; Quote: Minmatar Medium Frame Minmatar Medium Frame Skill Bonus: 10% to PG/CPU and 5% to ammo carried per level CPU: 150 (225 at all level V) PG: 30 (45 at all level V) Shield: 150 Armour:135 Movement speed: 5.3 Sprint Speed: 7.4 Stamina: 175 Scan profile: 50 Scan precision: 55 Scan radius: 10 High slots:3 Low slots: 2 Equipment slots: 2 Quote: Minmatar Logistics Frame (Combat support) Minmatar Logistics Skill bonus: 5% to nanohive capacity and nanohive replenishment rate per level Role bonus: 50% reduction to equipment PG/CPU Light weapon only CPU: 250 PG: 55 Shield: 90 Armour:150 Movement speed: 5 Sprint Speed: 7 Stamina: 175 Scan profile: 55 Scan precision: 45 Scan radius: 12.5 High slots: 4 Low slots: 4 Equipment slots: 3 The above Logistics example is well suited to supporting a group of friendly medium frames with its bonus to nanohives and light weapon slot. It's lower scan precision means its a poor at spotting enemies but its increas scan radius allows it to keep track of allies more easily. Quote: Minmatar Logistics Frame (Heavy Armour support) Minmatar Logistics Skill bonus: 5% to Repair Tool Efficency and 2% to Projectile Weapon Damage per level Role bonus: 50% reduction to equipment PG/CPU Sidearm only CPU: 255 PG: 52 Shield: 140 Armour:90 Movement speed: 5 Sprint Speed: 7 Stamina: 175 Scan profile: 55 Scan precision: 45 Scan radius: 13.5 High slots: 4 Low slots: 4 Equipment slots: 4 The above Logistics suit is very capable of supporting vehicles and Heavy frames with its bonus to repair tools and extra equipment slot, it only has a sidearm slot, though, so it's better suited in a pure logistics role. I'm sure there's holes to be picked in the stats and the suggestions but I hope what people take away from this is how good for the game specialization and dropsuit tiericide can be.
Kesi Raae Kaae Much Crying Old Experts 70	Posted - 2013.05.16 12:41:00 - [9] - Quote LittleCuteBunny wrote: Might as well just remove the light weapon slot from scouts and logis, and remove the heavy weapon slot from heavy dropsuits. Nevermind just delete all classes. dust.dead.game. Wait, what are you going on about?

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