Medics needles don't work anymore Nano-hive is useless now Way to little ammo

Logistics can't re-spec to a use full medic

Moving forward I would like to make a personal belief I have extremely clear. This hasn't been the case, but I want to kill off in the crib the concept of having the CPM being involved in specific balance issue where the community isn't being involved as well.

CCP should always look to the community first when it comes to balancing and tweaking specific items, weapons, suits, etc. Some of the issues right now, if the community was given access to specific and IN DEPTH stats beforehand, would have been easily spotted before the build was locked in. I do not have confidence in 6 people being who CCP runs to first when there are major issues with specifics and would like suggestions for balance passes. CCP should come to the community first in a clear and concise way. Honesty and upfront communication must be the norm.

The community needs a full stats dump for all of the assets currently in the game. This needs to include all the details, suit slots, rate of fire, cpu requirements, damage, basic optimal range before falloff, damage bonuses for headshots, effectiveness against shields/armor, all of it. The community needs to be given a chance to make things right. The CPM can help advocate for the community, but it needs to be the community being involved directly with CCP.

I agree with my CPM mate Kane regarding the fact that any modification brought to Dust in terms of balance, even if so little, needs to be out to the public PRIOR to any actual modification. Reasons have to be given on why it is done, feedback has to be taken regarding of it is a good idea or not, if it is done in the right scale etc...

There is nothing wrong with transparency. And like Kane said, none of us in the CPM wants to decide for all of you.

I find that very hard to believe if I'm honest.

Same

Not one vehicle person in the CPM

We are ****** right now in this build and future builds i believe

AR514

The CPM were picked because they're NOT part of the 'hurr durr durr nerf everything except what I use' crowd. They are people who actually want the best for the game and it's community as a whole.

That being said, something akin to CCP Fozzie's balance threads over in the EVE forums would be a very welcome addition over here for future 'tweaks' with the nerf mallet.

Conflict management is as much about manageing expectations as much as it is about design and intelligence.

[ That being said, something akin to CCP Fozzie's balance threads over in the EVE forums would be a very welcome addition over here for future 'tweaks' with the nerf mallet.

To be Honest about a lot of things I have played eve since 2007 This patch was quite a let down

There is a lot of shiny new things in this patch here is a list of things done right and wrong please add to it people so CPP get the message

Things done right.
6 person squad
Voice on all channels
Shiny new colors
Working on Re balance

Things to fix
New spawn Menu should have used same keys X to select default and x to start like always

Re Balance is messed up you have Nerfed all the weapons way to much there should have been some done to Laser, Sniper,
Maybe a little less damage on a heavy and Forge Gun

The suit fittings are all messed up now as far as PG/ CPU

You have taken away what we had before and not replaced it with skills

Changing all the skills was a bad Idea now most people have chosen skills that do not relate or work

The HUD does not work well can't see who needs a medic

Medics needles don't work anymore Nano-hive is useless now Way to little ammo

Logistics can't re-spec to a use full medic

A lot of the default suit fitting are fit wrong and don't give you what is needed to be a default player in that role

Players are getting stuck, Map is freezing.

When you die get rid of the screen that shows you who killed you you want to see what is going on.

You have messed with the core of what DUST was. All you had to do was some balancing and new shinny stuff.

There is probably a lot that I have not seen yet so please add to it people. In a nice way to get it fixed a list of what you like and what needs to be fixed

Jammer JAMS

Hey guys, the sentiment is not going unnoted. I have sent this thread and other similar ones off to people. Hopefully we can get a more detailed breakdown of stuff for you, both in the near and distant future.

Hey guys, the sentiment is not going unnoted. I have sent this thread and other similar ones off to people. Hopefully we can get a more detailed breakdown of stuff for you, both in the near and distant future.

Please CCP Eterne we need a test server. While providing data on suits/guns/gear is helpful how the game actually plays is whats really important.

If you guys would have released a detailed Dev blog on the respec in early April like you'd talked about, we would have been doing all this complaining about a spreadsheet instead of your game. The obvious stuff could have been fixed or at least we would have mentioned the issues we saw coming.

Hey guys, the sentiment is not going unnoted. I have sent this thread and other similar ones off to people. Hopefully we can get a more detailed breakdown of stuff for you, both in the near and distant future.

Bull

You will do nothing. You have scammed us, lied to us, stolen from us, and you expect a paragraph like that will actually revive the faith we had in you guys?

Haha no.

At least he took the time to say something man.
I'm giving ccp til the end of the month to at least have plans to fix what they have broken then I'm gone

At least he took the time to say something man.
I'm giving ccp til the end of the month to at least have plans to fix what they have broken then I'm gone

I been gaming for years and this is the worste update ever. From the 1st time I played dust I havnt played anything but dust. But now. Its not even fun anymore. You still had people trying to learn and as was said earlier play catch up. This update was like a completely new game. Rather than spending more money and time in this game id rather just find something else. Truley a disappointment.

Hey guys, the sentiment is not going unnoted. I have sent this thread and other similar ones off to people. Hopefully we can get a more detailed breakdown of stuff for you, both in the near and distant future.

I agree with my CPM mate Kane regarding the fact that any modification brought to Dust in terms of balance, even if so little, needs to be out to the public PRIOR to any actual modification. Reasons have to be given on why it is done, feedback has to be taken regarding of it is a good idea or not, if it is done in the right scale etc...

There is nothing wrong with transparency. And like Kane said, none of us in the CPM wants to decide for all of you.

Hey guys, the sentiment is not going unnoted. I have sent this thread and other similar ones off to people. Hopefully we can get a more detailed breakdown of stuff for you, both in the near and distant future.

Hey guys, the sentiment is not going unnoted. I have sent this thread and other similar ones off to people. Hopefully we can get a more detailed breakdown of stuff for you, both in the near and distant future.

I really appreciate that. The last thing we need is for us to devolve into a us vs. them situation. I have confidence that CCP and the greater community can work together. I'm not going to sugar coat it though. I am DEEPLY concerned with where we are right now. It's time for all of us to push up our sleeves and get our hands dirty.

Injectors work, and the basic nanohives were nerfed so that there was an actual benefit in skilling into Nanocircuitry.

Logistics suits can definitely be useful medics.

Kain sorry but you are wrong. The community will never be able to balance anything because they want what they spec into to be the best so they cry for nerfs on all the other things. The only thing the community should do is play the game and point out bugs. The right way to balance a game is to have a couple of players who are specialists in their field. But Zitro how does that balance anything? Ok slowpoke, have tank guy and av guy argue till they find balance. Was that so hard?

People who are real specialist in their field out of the 4,500 players need to tell the other 4,494 players to just quit thing to "balance" things

I would love to get some groups of role experts together, but the community can help and deserves to have all the cards on the table. Trying to concentrate balance only to experts would be just as bad as only leaving it to the CPM. We need an all of the above strategy.

I really appreciate that. The last thing we need is for us to devolve into a us vs. them situation. I have confidence that CCP and the greater community can work together. I'm not going to sugar coat it though. I am DEEPLY concerned with where we are right now. It's time for all of us to push up our sleeves and get our hands dirty.

and in all honesty... even SOME sort of response from the Devs and CCP employees on various topics.. much like foxfour was doing previously.. really goes a long way with keeping the community at least to some extent, informed.

I understand we're going on 24 hours since this has been out, but there are several issues that affect CORE gameplay that have been addressed, with not so much as a simple 'this has been confirmed' or 'we are aware of this and working on it' reply from CCP.

anyone with half a brain can understand the fact you cant just flip a switch and fix/change everything in 1 stroke.

Nor should anyone expect CCP to be completely forthcoming at all times, as this is a business after all, BUT keep us in the loop.

its amazing what that little 'Dev' sticky next to a thread can do in terms of communicating

I really appreciate that. The last thing we need is for us to devolve into a us vs. them situation. I have confidence that CCP and the greater community can work together. I'm not going to sugar coat it though. I am DEEPLY concerned with where we are right now. It's time for all of us to push up our sleeves and get our hands dirty.

I would love to get some groups of role experts together, but the community can help and deserves to have all the cards on the table. Trying to concentrate balance only to experts would be just as bad as only leaving it to the CPM. We need an all of the above strategy.

Logi suits can respec yes but oohh hell no injectors does not work at all !!! I'm a logi and my suit is nice i really like it. What i don't like is running around like a headless chicken with Benny hill playing in the background while trying to find the downed teammate who just went straight to the map screen and didn't call for help. (sooo few do that)

Make it mandatory that you'll always call for revive when downed. The distance counter is really nice but the downed player also gets a countdown on when he'll bleedout. Can't this also be shown to the medics ??
Maybe make this part of the logi role so that only logis get the countdown to when people will bleedout.

The community deserves nothing! This game isn't charity, which you CPM members are good with but that doesn't help at understanding a console game, let alone a FPS. They tried balancing from the lower end of the player base why not try and balance it for a more competitive play style than carebear city.

Injectors work, and the basic nanohives were nerfed so that there was an actual benefit in skilling into Nanocircuitry.

Logistics suits can definitely be useful medics.

My first big question; is to those who were at fanfest; was Uprising THIS AWFUL ?????????

As from the tourny we all watched, gameplay looked much better, smoother and everything. So, CCP, WTF DID YOU DO !!!!!

At this point, i'd say scrap all of Uprising and give us Chromo back for another 1-3 months till you figure out how to put out an adequate new build. Uprising has been the worst build by far no comparison (as ive been here since early Replication build); and there isn't anything to give this build a gleam of hope to get better.

Lets look at the pos & neg :

POS:
+6 man squads
+no UVTs
+game looks graphically a bit nicer

Neg:
-game is ISK sink
-game is SP sink
-movement is sluggish
-weapons are worthless
-SP gain is atrocious
-ambush isn't worth playing
-skirmish isn't worth playing
-starting players are F"d beyond any help
-skilling into anything of need is a massive SP sink (there is grind, then there is worthless WTF are you thinking)
-Nanohives are worthless till lv4 or 5
-spawn system is still pathetic
-Still no balance b/t suits, weapons, vehicles; or anything

Should i keep going? Seriously CCP, did you hand off Uprising to a bunch of people with Down syndrome to make and test (as your in house testing group should be FIRED ASAP). There isn't anything remotely acceptable that was given to us. I know i may get banned for this; but CCP, you need a wakeup call from the community and not have anything sugarcoated.

I do give credit to CCP Eterne for making a post; but hopefully something comes of it; otherwise see player counts drop even more then they have the last few months.

I go through phases right now. When I read this I want to yell F yeah and break my keyboard at work. But then I go through phases where I try to remain calm and hope they just have to tweak a few things.

One thing is for certain. As a 34 year old man, I'll never get so emotionally invested in a video game. However I've invested enough real money in this game that I'll be here for a while out of principle.

The CPU/PG thing for vehicles makes me think they are just too far off. How would something like this not get noticed? Did not one single tester try and fit a vehicle and play a match? I think they honestly just have maxed out everything and play around with stuff. There is no way that anybody created a character and started from scratch. Not with what we downloaded yesterday.

My first big question; is to those who were at fanfest; was Uprising THIS AWFUL ?????????

As from the tourny we all watched, gameplay looked much better, smoother and everything. So, CCP, WTF DID YOU DO !!!!!

At this point, i'd say scrap all of Uprising and give us Chromo back for another 1-3 months till you figure out how to put out an adequate new build. Uprising has been the worst build by far no comparison (as ive been here since early Replication build); and there isn't anything to give this build a gleam of hope to get better.

Lets look at the pos & neg :

POS:
+6 man squads
+no UVTs
+game looks graphically a bit nicer

Neg:
-game is ISK sink
-game is SP sink
-movement is sluggish
-weapons are worthless
-SP gain is atrocious
-ambush isn't worth playing
-skirmish isn't worth playing
-starting players are F"d beyond any help
-skilling into anything of need is a massive SP sink (there is grind, then there is worthless WTF are you thinking)
-Nanohives are worthless till lv4 or 5
-spawn system is still pathetic
-Still no balance b/t suits, weapons, vehicles; or anything

Should i keep going? Seriously CCP, did you hand off Uprising to a bunch of people with Down syndrome to make and test (as your in house testing group should be FIRED ASAP). There isn't anything remotely acceptable that was given to us. I know i may get banned for this; but CCP, you need a wakeup call from the community and not have anything sugarcoated.

I do give credit to CCP Eterne for making a post; but hopefully something comes of it; otherwise see player counts drop even more then they have the last few months.

Hey guys, the sentiment is not going unnoted. I have sent this thread and other similar ones off to people. Hopefully we can get a more detailed breakdown of stuff for you, both in the near and distant future.

Hey guys, the sentiment is not going unnoted. I have sent this thread and other similar ones off to people. Hopefully we can get a more detailed breakdown of stuff for you, both in the near and distant future.

My first big question; is to those who were at fanfest; was Uprising THIS AWFUL ?????????

As from the tourny we all watched, gameplay looked much better, smoother and everything. So, CCP, WTF DID YOU DO !!!!!

At this point, i'd say scrap all of Uprising and give us Chromo back for another 1-3 months till you figure out how to put out an adequate new build. Uprising has been the worst build by far no comparison (as ive been here since early Replication build); and there isn't anything to give this build a gleam of hope to get better.

Lets look at the pos & neg :

POS:
+6 man squads
+no UVTs
+game looks graphically a bit nicer

Neg:
-game is ISK sink
-game is SP sink
-movement is sluggish
-weapons are worthless
-SP gain is atrocious
-ambush isn't worth playing
-skirmish isn't worth playing
-starting players are F"d beyond any help
-skilling into anything of need is a massive SP sink (there is grind, then there is worthless WTF are you thinking)
-Nanohives are worthless till lv4 or 5
-spawn system is still pathetic
-Still no balance b/t suits, weapons, vehicles; or anything

Should i keep going? Seriously CCP, did you hand off Uprising to a bunch of people with Down syndrome to make and test (as your in house testing group should be FIRED ASAP). There isn't anything remotely acceptable that was given to us. I know i may get banned for this; but CCP, you need a wakeup call from the community and not have anything sugarcoated.

I do give credit to CCP Eterne for making a post; but hopefully something comes of it; otherwise see player counts drop even more then they have the last few months.

I agree with my CPM mate Kane regarding the fact that any modification brought to Dust in terms of balance, even if so little, needs to be out to the public PRIOR to any actual modification. Reasons have to be given on why it is done, feedback has to be taken regarding of it is a good idea or not, if it is done in the right scale etc...

There is nothing wrong with transparency. And like Kane said, none of us in the CPM wants to decide for all of you.

Is this the mild spoken Berserker I know?

Im sorry, as much as the message is nice Kain, all of you from the CPM pretty much praised the new updates and gave us much hope.

Now you are saying you are taking the community side?

And CCP, I have been with you since the beginning of this beta, spent a fair amount of money supporting you, but I wish I could get my money fully refunded now. This type of changes is simply too much. You made it even more unfair for new players to catch up to the pro players. And of course, mistakes cannot be changed.

Ill just leave my account in passive SP for a long time most likely, might fire it up a bit next week for new weapons. I think a lot of us are done with this game.

Full launch?! What the hell is that honestly, anyone can download this game for months now. This is a joke.

Is this the mild spoken Berserker I know?

I dont think I ever heard zerk even raise his voice. This sums up uprising

While no Dev will actually take the time to read this far into a "You screwed up again CCP" thread. I got to voice my support for showing us stat changes before hand as well as being more open. The only time I see a dev blog is when they are talking about some event or "introducing" a person they decided to represent the entire community. CCP given very little attention to the community or feedback to the community on updates and alot of people our tired of that.

There is no point in making a list of while this build sucks as bad as the last. CCP has failed two other times during beta even after thousands of people told them what was messed up. combined with their slow update speed during the beta it was pretty clear they are not listening to us, so I might as well not even say anything.

This is not the build they played at fanfest. CCP lied to them too.

lol, i do believe thor got it right, no one wants to steal CCP's garbage, the player count is a great way of seeing how alive (oops, i meant dead) the game REALLY is. if people that tried it loved it, we would have hundreds of thousands.....not barely 5000

This is not the build they played at fanfest. CCP lied to them too.

This is not the build they played at fanfest. CCP lied to them too.

should be limited to closed beta vets since we've been here forever just a thought

New players have as much right to make comment and post thoughts on balance. "I was here first" doesn't give any of us niche protection, nor should it.

New players have as much right to make comment and post thoughts on balance. "I was here first" doesn't give any of us niche protection, nor should it.

The community deserves nothing!

No, but -usually- with age comes wisdom.

Pretty sure being a closed beta vet doesn't prove that you're old enough for that to apply.

Having an intresting chat in corp atm (mainly because we cba to play)

I have a corp of 50 and the general consensus is that we cba to play a game that isnt FUN. The fun has been sucked out of this game by QQers, whiners, moaners and ccp employees who seem to be the same guys who decided that mandatory captains cabin in eve was a great idea (btw i really enjoyed protesting in dodixie lol)

I was really wanting to spend time in this game, put the leg work in, build a corp etc but now my over-riding feeling is that it's not worth it. I really dont see myself putting in the same 8 years i put into eve online. Hell i cant even be bothered to cap out this week, whats the point?

You think the player base is bad now, just wait, if the major problems are not fixed by "release" the reviewers / metacritic / whoever are gonna rip this to shreds. And if most people are like me, we research our games b4 we put time/money into them.

Gaming is ment to be FUN, this

Ofcourse that would be the only thing you would right away pick out from my post stankfeet and if you read my comment i never said they didnt have the right to make comments and post thoughts on balances maybe you need to reread a few more time

Pretty sure there were more members in ZTCD when I was in it then the entire current memberbase.

ZionShad is looking like a hero right now too.

EVERYTHINGS CHANGING :(

your comment indicates that you wish to exclude others than a few angry beta players from participating in testing.

thus limiting meaningful feedback to said players.

not a good precedent.

the new player experience is as critical to the game as the bittervets being happy

New players have as much right to make comment and post thoughts on balance. "I was here first" doesn't give any of us niche protection, nor should it.

Faction Warfare doesn't even work correctly in this build, you have to skill into dropsuit shield extenders in order to get vehicle extenders (Even though they have a vehicle shield extender skill now), and nanite injectors hardly ever work. CCP needs to work on its attention to detail. Grand plans are one thing but CCP is counting its chickens at the moment while the eggs sit unattended to. Stop telling us what the game will be like in 10 years and start discussing important near term changes.

Furthermore the maps look great, however they are not functional at the moment. One example is on manu's peak behind the twin peak that is closes to the small bowl there is a small rock... this small rock blocks everything from passing in a 10 meter radius. The terrain is full of magnets that cause you to stick to them not being able to move, and it feels like your constantly wobbling around due to slight terrain changes.

Lastly why does it sound like i broke every bone in my leg when i take slight falling damage.

THIS. When dramatic changes are being made CCP needs to be upfront with WHY those changes are being implemented. Throw numbers and statistics at us. Give us graphs and spreadsheets. It may be a lot of work, but I'm confident that the community's ability to work through this issues will make the investment worth your while, CCP.

Completely agree this build has had some radical changes and quite honestly has become far more complex and will be even harder to retain new players especially when they buy a raven suit they will have to get medium suits to proto level to use something they paid real money for.

I really hope CCP sees all the qq threads and realizes much better communication could have prevented it. My corp has slowly shrunk in size the last few months and I had hopes this build would bring them back. I am not sure the expectations will match what they get due to poor CCP communication.

yeah, saw the viziam go from god mode to "lol, you trying to kill my with that? NOPE"

lol was funny

but +1 to CCP for the change

This build is a mixed bag for me. Some of the changes are pretty sweet, like new dropsuits that are actually differentiated, cleaner visuals, and the simplified skill tree. On the other hand, some things are just down right ******, like MD nerf, vehicles skills getting fubar'd, HMG getting double-nerfed for no obvious reason, and the new skill-tree beign a huge SP sink to the point where I am not even half of what I was last build with 10.5mil SP for my logi. (Also not fond of making logis banana yellow of "Shoot me first!" because that is dumb).

Honestly with this massive of an overhaul we should have been given much more concrete details on stuff to pour over and look at, because I am sure that as FotM as shown, some things are definitely more powerful than others, and some things really are UP.

In terms of what I think needs to be fixed first:
1) range buff to all weapons since SS is gone
2) better weapon balancing so it isn't AR514

It seems clear to me that many community members, including CPMs who were at FanFest and got to poke around in the new build, are unhappy with how portions of this update have turned out, and like many others have said, CCP you could have avoided this headache with some better transparency so close to release. If this build ***** hard enough, you might even want to consider another respecc since this skill tree is so SP intensive and much more unforgiving than the last iteration.

Edit: Also, CCP you said you were leaving Militia BPOs. MAG tribute suits are not militia. I now have a worthless 20k Aurum sink in my inventory because I didn't want to spec into that racial dropsuit. Not cool.

All you had to do was:
Update graphics/UI
Remove sharpshooter - would have fixed the HMG without further touching its range/dmg
Fix iron sights
Not mess with nanite injectors/calling for help.

Instead, it appears you dev'd with a wrecking ball instead of a surgeon's scalpel.

Whoever decided this mess is launch ready should be fired.

This is CCP's AAA shooter? A dumbed down sc-fi version of CoD? CoD is AA at best, mind you.

Guns shoot more than 50 meters. I don't care if you say shooting someone at 200+ meters is overpowered. We need realistic guns and not pieces of crap that shoot shorter than I can throw a football. Last I checked most real life ARs get passed 300 meter ranges. CCP was so proud of their 5 km maps and we can't shoot past 50 meters. This makes no sense and is an affront to the Dust 514 playerbase. This was supposed to be New Eden and not a place where we pander to the *****ing pubbies who lacked the New Eden hardened fortitude to continue to skill up sharpshooter on their own.

Way to pander to a minority where the majority gets screwed. Is that how we do it in New Eden now?

Let's not forget that a AAA shooter is realistic while being new and revolutionary. Two thumbs down for Uprising.

the main reason everyone is upset i bet.

i can throw grenades farther than my HMG can reach, that's just sad

Pretty sure this thread is longer then the HMG can shoot. Just sayin'.

lol, did your main get banned again

LMAO

Yup. :D 1 month this time ;)

40m HMG range? I'm bored killing heavies. I feel bad for them now. Its bad sport.
Where was the data so we could take a long look and decide how to adjust things? Were rannge issues resolved in Uprising? No. It was condensed and compounded by making weapons at the upper and lower effective ranges less useful. CCP flattened a game we only play because we don't want to play a flat game.

I want to hear this from an actual CPM or anyone that was at FF before I believe this.

they have transparency, but only in eve.

and it took them 10 years to get there, AND a riot

Make no mistake, this is a riot.

Moving forward I would like to make a personal belief I have extremely clear. This hasn't been the case, but I want to kill off in the crib the concept of having the CPM being involved in specific balance issues where the community isn't being involved as well.

CCP should always look to the community first when it comes to balancing and tweaking specific items, weapons, suits, etc. Some of the issues right now, if the community was given access to specific and IN DEPTH stats beforehand, would have been easily spotted before the build was locked in. I do not have confidence in 6 people being who CCP runs to first when there are major issues with specifics and would like suggestions for balance passes. CCP should come to the community first in a clear and concise way. Honesty and upfront communication must be the norm.

The community needs a full stats dump for all of the assets currently in the game. This needs to include all the details, suit slots, rate of fire, cpu requirements, damage, basic optimal range before falloff, damage bonuses for headshots, effectiveness against shields/armor, all of it. The community needs to be given a chance to make things right. The CPM can help advocate for the community, but it needs to be the community being involved directly with CCP.

both hans AND kain have voiced their displeasure in a VERY public fashion, to me, that screams "you ****** everything up CCP"

we don't have a statue to shoot though


how are we to riot anyway, as a heavy i have to be 2 feet from what i shoot, or use the FG and stop protesting after 16 shots....

These forums and the public IRC are our statue to shoot.

Hey guys, the sentiment is not going unnoted. I have sent this thread and other similar ones off to people. Hopefully we can get a more detailed breakdown of stuff for you, both in the near and distant future.

they have transparency, but only in eve.

and it took them 10 years to get there, AND a riot

having watched the Q&A at fanfest with the CPM, i REALLY hope CCP gives them that list of threads the make note of

Our concerns right now go far beyond making sure CCP notices this thread or that thread. Even amongst the trolling which only makes sorting through the information a more difficult chore, there is no shortage of expert advice amongst those of you in the community documenting the changes, discussing the problems with them, and posting effective solutions. The problem as I see it is that the expert advice is not being utilized efficiently (or at all in some cases) and a feedback loop has emerged where frustrated players post up solutions, see no result, get more frustrated, post twice as hard, and then get twice as frustrated.

This has of course come to a head with the deployment of Uprising, resulting in forums that have been unusable for days. I personally believe that this is a natural consequence of making noticeable and frustrating changes to the game without proper documentation, and without cluing the community into the reason why any of these changes were made in the first place. This is a perfect storm of the following:

1.) Seemingly arbitrary balancing changes made without advance notification to the community.
2.) Some balancing changes (like weapon ranges) completely alter the feel of combat and create negative side effects
3.) Lack of supporting explanation of said balancing changes
4.) Wasted player effort on trying to compile data that should be made public anyways, and weeks in advance
5.) Wasted player effort on trying to assess WHY a change was made, when the developers could just tell us.
6.) Forums that are inefficient at best and unusable at worst because discussions are not contained to concrete threads initiated by the developers responsible for the balancing changes.

Regardless of Telcontar's laughable claim that we are some spineless entity who exists to assist CCP with PR and who refuses to say anything critical to CCP, neither I nor the rest of the CPM will be standing idly while these issues continue to threaten the potential that Uprising has, which many of us saw at Fanfest. The reward for us sitting around parroting CCP's statements or whitewashing problems is a fundamentally worse product, and CCP gets no benefit for their investment by having us pretend everything is peachy.

With the "CPM SUX" abloobloo out of the way, we'll return to the subject at hand - there are indeed noticeable difference between the two builds, latency is clearly not the same as when it operated on private servers, and most of you are plenty familiar with the bug affecting KB/Mouse controls. On top of that, weapon and suit performance appears to be different as well. CCP was honest with attendees that the builds were not exactly the same, but we still deserved more information about what was changed and why.

None of these are insurmountable problems, and if enough effort is made to fix these issues in the immediate future, Uprising will still be a step forward for the game as a whole. What it does mean is that we need to get into the nuts and bolts of balancing with an unprecedented level of transparency, as Dust 514 deserves to be a hardcore FPS with rock solid core gunplay. I personally believe that having a stable, balanced core with excellent latency, hit detection, polished weapons, and logical suit bonuses with a satisfying pace of progression should be CCP's #1 priority. FW, PC, none of these exciting game modes will be fulfilling if the game is frustrating at its core.

The CPM's top priority at the moment is finding out what can be fixed between now and May 14, as well as correcting the communication patterns that have created the current forum culture and justifiable unrest. Be assured we will be doing as much as possible to ensure that we secure this dialogue surrounding core gameplay with the level of transparency that you deserve.

Just as those of us on the CSM successfully transformed the way that the we interacted with the development teams last year and secured our status as a stakeholder, I am confident the CPM will successfully change the way that CCP interacts with the community in the days ahead as well. In the meantime the naysaying bullshit will continue (as CSM7 endured all last year until everyone saw Retribution's subscriber numbers and the Odyssey feature list), but the claims that the CPM can't make a difference have already been torpedoed once, and I'm happy to dumpster them again and again as often as I'm given the opportunity.

Thank you all for your patience and hard work in the meantime. I welcome you to get into contact with us personally with your concerns and suggestions, you have created far too many threads for us to grace them all with our presence.

this is exactly what i wanted to do. see what we can get fixed before the 14th and move onwards from there. how do you propose we start this project?

The CPM's top priority at the moment is finding out what can be fixed between now and May 14, as well as correcting the communication patterns that have created the current forum culture and justifiable unrest. Be assured we will be doing as much as possible to ensure that we secure this dialogue surrounding core gameplay with the level of transparency that you deserve.

...

This is a perfect storm of the following:

1.) Seemingly arbitrary balancing changes made without advance notification to the community.
2.) Some balancing changes (like weapon ranges) completely alter the feel of combat and create negative side effects
3.) Lack of supporting explanation of said balancing changes
4.) Wasted player effort on trying to compile data that should be made public anyways, and weeks in advance
5.) Wasted player effort on trying to assess WHY a change was made, when the developers could just tell us.
6.) Forums that are inefficient at best and unusable at worst because discussions are not contained to concrete threads initiated by the developers responsible for the balancing changes.

Regardless of Telcontar's laughable claim that we are some spineless entity who exists to assist CCP with PR and who refuses to say anything critical to CCP, neither I nor the rest of the CPM will be standing idly while these issues continue to threaten the potential that Uprising has, which many of us saw at Fanfest. The reward for us sitting around parroting CCP's statements or whitewashing problems is a fundamentally worse product, and CCP gets no benefit for their investment by having us pretend everything is peachy.

....

Our concerns right now go far beyond making sure CCP notices this thread or that thread. Even amongst the trolling which only makes sorting through the information a more difficult chore, there is no shortage of expert advice amongst those of you in the community documenting the changes, discussing the problems with them, and posting effective solutions. The problem as I see it is that the expert advice is not being utilized efficiently (or at all in some cases) and a feedback loop has emerged where frustrated players post up solutions, see no result, get more frustrated, post twice as hard, and then get twice as frustrated.

This has of course come to a head with the deployment of Uprising, resulting in forums that have been unusable for days. I personally believe that this is a natural consequence of making noticeable and frustrating changes to the game without proper documentation, and without cluing the community into the reason why any of these changes were made in the first place. This is a perfect storm of the following:

1.) Seemingly arbitrary balancing changes made without advance notification to the community.
2.) Some balancing changes (like weapon ranges) completely alter the feel of combat and create negative side effects
3.) Lack of supporting explanation of said balancing changes
4.) Wasted player effort on trying to compile data that should be made public anyways, and weeks in advance
5.) Wasted player effort on trying to assess WHY a change was made, when the developers could just tell us.
6.) Forums that are inefficient at best and unusable at worst because discussions are not contained to concrete threads initiated by the developers responsible for the balancing changes.

Regardless of Telcontar's laughable claim that we are some spineless entity who exists to assist CCP with PR and who refuses to say anything critical to CCP, neither I nor the rest of the CPM will be standing idly while these issues continue to threaten the potential that Uprising has, which many of us saw at Fanfest. The reward for us sitting around parroting CCP's statements or whitewashing problems is a fundamentally worse product, and CCP gets no benefit for their investment by having us pretend everything is peachy.

With the "CPM SUX" abloobloo out of the way, we'll return to the subject at hand - there are indeed noticeable difference between the two builds, latency is clearly not the same as when it operated on private servers, and most of you are plenty familiar with the bug affecting KB/Mouse controls. On top of that, weapon and suit performance appears to be different as well. CCP was honest with attendees that the builds were not exactly the same, but we still deserved more information about what was changed and why.

None of these are insurmountable problems, and if enough effort is made to fix these issues in the immediate future, Uprising will still be a step forward for the game as a whole. What it does mean is that we need to get into the nuts and bolts of balancing with an unprecedented level of transparency, as Dust 514 deserves to be a hardcore FPS with rock solid core gunplay. I personally believe that having a stable, balanced core with excellent latency, hit detection, polished weapons, and logical suit bonuses with a satisfying pace of progression should be CCP's #1 priority. FW, PC, none of these exciting game modes will be fulfilling if the game is frustrating at its core.

The CPM's top priority at the moment is finding out what can be fixed between now and May 14, as well as correcting the communication patterns that have created the current forum culture and justifiable unrest. Be assured we will be doing as much as possible to ensure that we secure this dialogue surrounding core gameplay with the level of transparency that you deserve.

Just as those of us on the CSM successfully transformed the way that the we interacted with the development teams last year and secured our status as a stakeholder, I am confident the CPM will successfully change the way that CCP interacts with the community in the days ahead as well. In the meantime the naysaying bullshit will continue (as CSM7 endured all last year until everyone saw Retribution's subscriber numbers and the Odyssey feature list), but the claims that the CPM can't make a difference have already been torpedoed once, and I'm happy to dumpster them again and again as often as I'm given the opportunity.

Thank you all for your patience and hard work in the meantime. I welcome you to get into contact with us personally with your concerns and suggestions, you have created far too many threads for us to grace them all with our presence.

When this is still under question, I think it's perfectly valid to put the suggestion of NOT releasing on the 14th forward. To CPM as a suggestion to pass on, as well as to CCP themselves directly as well as indirectly through CCP.

I've done this in a couple of threads as a "venting" comment more than a real suggestion, but I'm starting to think it might actually be a serious option to consider.

umad?

I'm watching several of you to see how you step into this, you have the experience on the CSM but I haven't seen you fully engaged with Dust514 yet. Heinrich or Hans...TBD.

Yes it's very true that many of the fanbois/girl don't understand that their continual whitewash of CCP actions is actually very negative for the game, they reflexively "soothe" the community and it undermines their credibility time after time.

damn, out of feedback, and tired, so....trolling the trolls mode engaged

Please CCP Eterne we need a test server. While providing data on suits/guns/gear is helpful how the game actually plays is whats really important.

You have what it takes to be a goodposter Tiberius....don't stoop. Keep in mind there is a difference between trolling the trolls, and tossing them into the dumpster entirely using facts and truth.

All you had to do was:
Update graphics/UI
Remove sharpshooter - would have fixed the HMG without further touching its range/dmg
Fix iron sights
Not mess with nanite injectors/calling for help.

Instead, it appears you dev'd with a wrecking ball instead of a surgeon's scalpel.

Whoever decided this mess is launch ready should be fired.

Our concerns right now go far beyond making sure CCP notices this thread or that thread. Even amongst the trolling which only makes sorting through the information a more difficult chore, there is no shortage of expert advice amongst those of you in the community documenting the changes, discussing the problems with them, and posting effective solutions. The problem as I see it is that the expert advice is not being utilized efficiently (or at all in some cases) and a feedback loop has emerged where frustrated players post up solutions, see no result, get more frustrated, post twice as hard, and then get twice as frustrated.

This has of course come to a head with the deployment of Uprising, resulting in forums that have been unusable for days. I personally believe that this is a natural consequence of making noticeable and frustrating changes to the game without proper documentation, and without cluing the community into the reason why any of these changes were made in the first place. This is a perfect storm of the following:

1.) Seemingly arbitrary balancing changes made without advance notification to the community.
2.) Some balancing changes (like weapon ranges) completely alter the feel of combat and create negative side effects
3.) Lack of supporting explanation of said balancing changes
4.) Wasted player effort on trying to compile data that should be made public anyways, and weeks in advance
5.) Wasted player effort on trying to assess WHY a change was made, when the developers could just tell us.
6.) Forums that are inefficient at best and unusable at worst because discussions are not contained to concrete threads initiated by the developers responsible for the balancing changes.

Regardless of Telcontar's laughable claim that we are some spineless entity who exists to assist CCP with PR and who refuses to say anything critical to CCP, neither I nor the rest of the CPM will be standing idly while these issues continue to threaten the potential that Uprising has, which many of us saw at Fanfest. The reward for us sitting around parroting CCP's statements or whitewashing problems is a fundamentally worse product, and CCP gets no benefit for their investment by having us pretend everything is peachy.

With the "CPM SUX" abloobloo out of the way, we'll return to the subject at hand - there are indeed noticeable difference between the two builds, latency is clearly not the same as when it operated on private servers, and most of you are plenty familiar with the bug affecting KB/Mouse controls. On top of that, weapon and suit performance appears to be different as well. CCP was honest with attendees that the builds were not exactly the same, but we still deserved more information about what was changed and why.

None of these are insurmountable problems, and if enough effort is made to fix these issues in the immediate future, Uprising will still be a step forward for the game as a whole. What it does mean is that we need to get into the nuts and bolts of balancing with an unprecedented level of transparency, as Dust 514 deserves to be a hardcore FPS with rock solid core gunplay. I personally believe that having a stable, balanced core with excellent latency, hit detection, polished weapons, and logical suit bonuses with a satisfying pace of progression should be CCP's #1 priority. FW, PC, none of these exciting game modes will be fulfilling if the game is frustrating at its core.

The CPM's top priority at the moment is finding out what can be fixed between now and May 14, as well as correcting the communication patterns that have created the current forum culture and justifiable unrest. Be assured we will be doing as much as possible to ensure that we secure this dialogue surrounding core gameplay with the level of transparency that you deserve.

Just as those of us on the CSM successfully transformed the way that the we interacted with the development teams last year and secured our status as a stakeholder, I am confident the CPM will successfully change the way that CCP interacts with the community in the days ahead as well. In the meantime the naysaying bullshit will continue (as CSM7 endured all last year until everyone saw Retribution's subscriber numbers and the Odyssey feature list), but the claims that the CPM can't make a difference have already been torpedoed once, and I'm happy to dumpster them again and again as often as I'm given the opportunity.

Thank you all for your patience and hard work in the meantime. I welcome you to get into contact with us personally with your concerns and suggestions, you have created far too many threads for us to grace them all with our presence.

Moving forward I would like to make a personal belief I have extremely clear. This hasn't been the case, but I want to kill off in the crib the concept of having the CPM being involved in specific balance issues where the community isn't being involved as well.

CCP should always look to the community first when it comes to balancing and tweaking specific items, weapons, suits, etc. Some of the issues right now, if the community was given access to specific and IN DEPTH stats beforehand, would have been easily spotted before the build was locked in. I do not have confidence in 6 people being who CCP runs to first when there are major issues with specifics and would like suggestions for balance passes. CCP should come to the community first in a clear and concise way. Honesty and upfront communication must be the norm.

The community needs a full stats dump for all of the assets currently in the game. This needs to include all the details, suit slots, rate of fire, cpu requirements, damage, basic optimal range before falloff, damage bonuses for headshots, effectiveness against shields/armor, all of it. The community needs to be given a chance to make things right. The CPM can help advocate for the community, but it needs to be the community being involved directly with CCP.

quick question, has anyone even bothered to SAVE sp for the new weapons?

quick question, has anyone even bothered to SAVE sp for the new weapons?

Not all. You're actively trying to hinder progress by discouraging others from helping out and working with the CPM by lying and misinformation. It is actually my pleasure to put a bullet through your bullshit.



Thank you for proving my point, you're as predictable as clockwork.

It's my belief that if the ENTIRE patch notes and item list were put out before hand (as well as optimal ranges for weapons)
This could of easily been avoided, as everyone would of been voicing their opinions as to what needs to go where.

The biggest fail of this build to me was the lack of communication, I mean for months all we got were small teasers as to how the skill system would be updated and how we would be getting a respec. Nothing to how Mass Driver blast radius would be nerfed (not even in the patch notes) Or how the logistics suit takes a lot more sp to spec into. The Heavy nerf is probably the biggest example.

Things like these could of been avoided. Months ago I could of known there wouldn't be any basic frame logis, and I could of asked someone about it. Now I just get to make a forum post and hope that it will make it in the next build in 4 months.

It's like talking to a wall, and hoping someone is on the other side to hear your cries for help.

spec'd into scrambler rifle lvl 5 prof. lvl 3 and flaylock lvl 3

using exile AR until the 14th

Bold move to spec so heavily into something that you haven't tested yet. In an attempt to avoid any possible future qq from the regular fanboys/girls, I'm willing to bet that CCP has already hit all "soonTM" weapons with the nerf-hammer to "lolbalance" them ... somehow.

One little point related to yours - I'd like to know why weapon stats are being hidden from us? The range and falloff of all weapons are listed in EVE, what is the motivation for concealing a weapon's range and falloff from DUST players? Doesn't make much sense to me.

From what I've been able to gather it isn't malicious intent. Whatever technical hurdles there may be though, you all deserve as must data about the things you are going to invest your time and money into when it comes to your SP, ISK, and AUR. With the dramatic changes in ranges it only makes sense that you all be given a comparison to Chromosome ranges and Uprising changes.

we didn't, so we guessed as we specced, got screwed when we realised that things were WAY off, and started yelling in the forums

really? people are going to let a relevant and helpful thread die because they all want their own?

sad

Also the CPM has a whole hasnt said a whole lot aside from saying they are with the community.

You keep saying the channels are open between you and CCP.... so... what has happened so far?

Where are the other CPM members? Wish there was a quick way to find what you are posting.

someone in CCP admitted the shafted the heavy too much and they intend to partially remove the rod soon soon

someone in CCP admitted the shafted the heavy too much and they intend to partially remove the rod soon soon

they shafted everyone almost

From what I've been able to gather it isn't malicious intent. Whatever technical hurdles there may be though, you all deserve as much data about the things you are going to invest your time and money into when it comes to your SP, ISK, and AUR. With the dramatic changes in ranges it only makes sense that you all be given a comparison to Chromosome ranges and Uprising changes.

We were told in IRC that many of the stats were limited just because it was not convenient to pull them out of the system. I don't know how it applies to weapon ranges, but weapon damage for example is an attribute of the projectile itself and so couldn't be attached to the weapon in the spreadsheet. It may be that range is a property of the projectile as well, or simply not stored as a basic variable attached to the weapon.

I doubt it would have been difficult to link them but maybe they're using some crazily obscure system to link ammo to weapons. (Interestingly this may be some evidence towards seeing different ammo types in future).

Thanks for this thread Kane.

We were told in IRC that many of the stats were limited just because it was not convenient to pull them out of the system. I don't know how it applies to weapon ranges, but weapon damage for example is an attribute of the projectile itself and so couldn't be attached to the weapon in the spreadsheet. It may be that range is a property of the projectile as well, or simply not stored as a basic variable attached to the weapon.

I doubt it would have been difficult to link them but maybe they're using some crazily obscure system to link ammo to weapons. (Interestingly this may be some evidence towards seeing different ammo types in future).

Please be advised that the numbers are in and shotgun range was also ninja nerfed. Coupled with the known aiming issues that going proto appears to have made even worse and to boot a problem that is worse at close range..... with three type of ugly the game is unplayable for me other than to go in fire off some rounds and maybe hit someone.

so the heavies arch nemisis got triple nerfed too?

sad sad days

You should see what happens when two shotguns meet... A rage dance of lead and tears.