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A Precedent for the CPM Moving Forward

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1286	Posted - 2013.05.07 12:59:00 - [1] - Quote Moving forward I would like to make a personal belief I have extremely clear. This hasn't been the case, but I want to kill off in the crib the concept of having the CPM being involved in specific balance issue where the community isn't being involved as well. CCP should always look to the community first when it comes to balancing and tweaking specific items, weapons, suits, etc. Some of the issues right now, if the community was given access to specific and IN DEPTH stats beforehand, would have been easily spotted before the build was locked in. I do not have confidence in 6 people being who CCP runs to first when there are major issues with specifics and would like suggestions for balance passes. CCP should come to the community first in a clear and concise way. Honesty and upfront communication must be the norm. The community needs a full stats dump for all of the assets currently in the game. This needs to include all the details, suit slots, rate of fire, cpu requirements, damage, basic optimal range before falloff, damage bonuses for headshots, effectiveness against shields/armor, all of it. The community needs to be given a chance to make things right. The CPM can help advocate for the community, but it needs to be the community being involved directly with CCP.
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1289	Posted - 2013.05.07 14:35:00 - [2] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: Conflict management is as much about manageing expectations as much as it is about design and intelligence. I think this is one of the major issues. Expectations WERE NOT managed. This game has been dramatically changed and I feel that the community wasn't in on the loop. When fundamentals are altered the community needs to be able to make comments and group think through the issues. Both CCP and the Dust community want this game to succeed. I really do believe that, but everyone really needs to be on the same page before dramatic changes like this are locked in. CCP, the community isn't angry because they hate you guys or Dust. We've been on this road together for a year, but what has happened feels like a betrayal of trust. The community has given you their blood sweat and tears to bring this game to launch. I don't think anyone really wants Dust to fail. Give the community the tools and the information to help you.
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1294	Posted - 2013.05.07 14:40:00 - [3] - Quote Ryder Azorria wrote: [ That being said, something akin to CCP Fozzie's balance threads over in the EVE forums would be a very welcome addition over here for future 'tweaks' with the nerf mallet. THIS. When dramatic changes are being made CCP needs to be upfront with WHY those changes are being implemented. Throw numbers and statistics at us. Give us graphs and spreadsheets. It may be a lot of work, but I'm confident that the community's ability to work through this issues will make the investment worth your while, CCP.
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1317	Posted - 2013.05.07 18:13:00 - [4] - Quote CCP Eterne wrote: Hey guys, the sentiment is not going unnoted. I have sent this thread and other similar ones off to people. Hopefully we can get a more detailed breakdown of stuff for you, both in the near and distant future. I really appreciate that. The last thing we need is for us to devolve into a us vs. them situation. I have confidence that CCP and the greater community can work together. I'm not going to sugar coat it though. I am DEEPLY concerned with where we are right now. It's time for all of us to push up our sleeves and get our hands dirty.
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1317	Posted - 2013.05.07 18:24:00 - [5] - Quote Mr Zitro wrote: Kain sorry but you are wrong. The community will never be able to balance anything because they want what they spec into to be the best so they cry for nerfs on all the other things. The only thing the community should do is play the game and point out bugs. The right way to balance a game is to have a couple of players who are specialists in their field. But Zitro how does that balance anything? Ok slowpoke, have tank guy and av guy argue till they find balance. Was that so hard? People who are real specialist in their field out of the 4,500 players need to tell the other 4,494 players to just quit thing to "balance" things I would love to get some groups of role experts together, but the community can help and deserves to have all the cards on the table. Trying to concentrate balance only to experts would be just as bad as only leaving it to the CPM. We need an all of the above strategy.
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1362	Posted - 2013.05.08 07:05:00 - [6] - Quote General Tiberius1 wrote: they have transparency, but only in eve. and it took them 10 years to get there, AND a riot Hopefully we can skip some of these steps. I really would hate to see Dust have to go through something like that to get the transparency we need.
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1366	Posted - 2013.05.08 13:32:00 - [7] - Quote In my opinion one of the purposes of the main purposes CPM is to go out into the community and find the best players in any given role and get feedback from them. As we move towards doing whatever we can before the 14th, I think keeping an ear to the ground and finding out the who's who in specific roles to help provide the CPM can only be helpful. These experts will be extremely helpful and their feedback important, but it is also our responsibility to listen to the community as a whole.
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1370	Posted - 2013.05.08 19:33:00 - [8] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: One little point related to yours - I'd like to know why weapon stats are being hidden from us? The range and falloff of all weapons are listed in EVE, what is the motivation for concealing a weapon's range and falloff from DUST players? Doesn't make much sense to me. From what I've been able to gather it isn't malicious intent. Whatever technical hurdles there may be though, you all deserve as must data about the things you are going to invest your time and money into when it comes to your SP, ISK, and AUR. With the dramatic changes in ranges it only makes sense that you all be given a comparison to Chromosome ranges and Uprising changes.
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1376	Posted - 2013.05.09 01:47:00 - [9] - Quote Mithridates VI wrote: We were told in IRC that many of the stats were limited just because it was not convenient to pull them out of the system. I don't know how it applies to weapon ranges, but weapon damage for example is an attribute of the projectile itself and so couldn't be attached to the weapon in the spreadsheet. It may be that range is a property of the projectile as well, or simply not stored as a basic variable attached to the weapon. I doubt it would have been difficult to link them but maybe they're using some crazily obscure system to link ammo to weapons. (Interestingly this may be some evidence towards seeing different ammo types in future). To me this is no excuse. If the need to have someone spawn in a match on their test clients in order to get the numbers (as some enterprising players have done) that should be what is done. The players must have this information especially when dramatic changes are made.
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1377	Posted - 2013.05.09 13:21:00 - [10] - Quote Hey guys the CPM just got done with a high level meeting with CCP and made the significant concerns of the community known. CCP is also following what you guys are saying and the feedback you are providing. The CPM will be updating you soon, but for right now know that stuff is being worked on, and that **** is very very serious and CCP seems to understand that. That doesn't mean their feet aren't being held to the fire, but I feel much better about the situation if CCP follows through the actionable items that were discussed.

Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1382	Posted - 2013.05.09 19:51:00 - [11] - Quote Raz Sidona wrote: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=75000 CPM has done a glorious thing today and CCP has listened. This gives hope for the game to survive. It should. That doesn't mean our responsibilities as a community are over. It will be up to the players and the CPM to make sure CCP and Dust 514 stay on the right course moving forward. Actions and results are much more valuable than words.
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1394	Posted - 2013.05.11 12:32:00 - [12] - Quote Please see this thread: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=75594&find=unread This is great step in the right direction. The community and CCP together need to make sure that this progress continues moving forward.

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