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I'm sending a complaint to Sony.

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JL3Eleven Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 286	Posted - 2013.04.14 13:35:00 - [91] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: JL3Eleven wrote: DJINN leukoplast wrote: JL3Eleven wrote: DJINN leukoplast wrote: There is no more resets, everything you have now will be part of Dust for the remainder of it's lifetime. If they do reset, then you will get refunded like you have on past resets. But it isn't happening, 100% guaranteed. link? Just a few: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=582877#post582877 https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=598443#post598443 There was also a sticky about it on the general forums for the longest time, not there anymore though. But this was it: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=619126#post619126 Seems pretty clear to me. All 3 links simply stated skill points wont be reset to 0. That's not the issue nice try. And... that's what he said. Thats not the main point of this post please stick on topic. We are having a good discussion btw.
Schalac 17 D3LTA FORC3 Orion Empire 15	Posted - 2013.04.14 13:43:00 - [92] - Quote As a nonpartisan observer on this, I have not purchased a prechange merc pack and I don't work for CCP. All those that bought the merc pack before the change in description should have all of their items and AUR refunded at such a time that CCP places DUST 514 into commercial release. They have stated many times the we are not in commercial release and as per the terms of purchase, for those that purchased a merc pack prechange CCP are obliged to a refund of said merc pack(s) as per their own wording at the point of sale. It is cut and dry. Those that have no reading comprehension, or simply want to disrupt the normal course of action by saying that CCP doesn't owe those involved anything, are simply trolling. CCP will lock this thread though because they are afraid of facts.
N1ck Comeau Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION 226	Posted - 2013.04.14 13:48:00 - [93] - Quote Why would they refund you Aurum? Your not losing any items and you still keep all the SP earned from boosters. If a glitch killed you and you lost AUR because of it you can't complain you knew the risks
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2477	Posted - 2013.04.14 13:49:00 - [94] - Quote Ryder Azorria wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: If you "acquired" the Merc Pack through gameplay, rather than purchasing it online through PSN or Gamestop (or in-store in the case of Gamestop), this would be relevant. I don't know of anyone who did, so it's not at all applicable to the Merc Pack in any situation that I've heard of as a possibility. The purchase agreement is legally binding REGARDLESS OF WHAT ANY EULA CONTENT MIGHT STATE ABOUT CCP'S RIGHT TO CHANGE THINGS. There's significant legal precedent in many countries - including CCP's chosen jurisdiction - for EULAs to be overruled by purchase agreements. By my own local laws, even the EULA's claim to apply British law can't be enforced when I'm questioning something in the purchase agreement, and my local laws (which are almost identical to British law anyway) are applicable. And by those laws, I'm entitled, regardless of the contents of any post-purchase EULA, or even a pre-purchase EULA that was made separate from the purchase itself, to what I was offered when I bought the product. While I don't have access to the resources to disprove you, and while I know that there is precedent for EULAs being overruled, I kinda doubt you have legal precedent for this exact scenario, ie. "explicitly signing away any previous or future legal rights in this matter with a legally binding document" - though if there is, wtf?! Purchase agreements are also legally binding, and are legally binding OUTSIDE of the limitations of EULAs, which are only binding within the confines of the purchased product. When you buy a Merc Pack, that purchase agreement - which includes the product description at the time of purchase - supercedes any EULA because it's applicable outside of the content itself, while the EULA isn't. Someone who agreed to the EULA before buying the Merc Pack is still legally entitled to what the Merc Pack description said at the time of purchase, in spite of them having "no legal rights" with regard to the content of the beta. The Merc Pack purchase occured OUTSIDE the beta, so any EULA relating to the beta is irrelevant.
JL3Eleven Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 286	Posted - 2013.04.14 13:56:00 - [95] - Quote Schalac 17 wrote: As a nonpartisan observer on this, I have not purchased a prechange merc pack and I don't work for CCP. All those that bought the merc pack before the change in description should have all of their items and AUR refunded at such a time that CCP places DUST 514 into commercial release. They have stated many times the we are not in commercial release and as per the terms of purchase, for those that purchased a merc pack prechange CCP are obliged to a refund of said merc pack(s) as per their own wording at the point of sale. It is cut and dry. Those that have no reading comprehension, or simply want to disrupt the normal course of action by saying that CCP doesn't owe those involved anything, are simply trolling. CCP will lock this thread though because they are afraid of facts. Thank you. I will now leave this thread and blame CCP for not providing answers.
Ryder Azorria Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 181	Posted - 2013.04.14 14:10:00 - [96] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Ryder Azorria wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: If you "acquired" the Merc Pack through gameplay, rather than purchasing it online through PSN or Gamestop (or in-store in the case of Gamestop), this would be relevant. I don't know of anyone who did, so it's not at all applicable to the Merc Pack in any situation that I've heard of as a possibility. The purchase agreement is legally binding REGARDLESS OF WHAT ANY EULA CONTENT MIGHT STATE ABOUT CCP'S RIGHT TO CHANGE THINGS. There's significant legal precedent in many countries - including CCP's chosen jurisdiction - for EULAs to be overruled by purchase agreements. By my own local laws, even the EULA's claim to apply British law can't be enforced when I'm questioning something in the purchase agreement, and my local laws (which are almost identical to British law anyway) are applicable. And by those laws, I'm entitled, regardless of the contents of any post-purchase EULA, or even a pre-purchase EULA that was made separate from the purchase itself, to what I was offered when I bought the product. While I don't have access to the resources to disprove you, and while I know that there is precedent for EULAs being overruled, I kinda doubt you have legal precedent for this exact scenario, ie. "explicitly signing away any previous or future legal rights in this matter with a legally binding document" - though if there is, wtf?! Purchase agreements are also legally binding, and are legally binding OUTSIDE of the limitations of EULAs, which are only binding within the confines of the purchased product. When you buy a Merc Pack, that purchase agreement - which includes the product description at the time of purchase - supercedes any EULA because it's applicable outside of the content itself, while the EULA isn't. Someone who agreed to the EULA before buying the Merc Pack is still legally entitled to what the Merc Pack description said at the time of purchase, in spite of them having "no legal rights" with regard to the content of the beta. The Merc Pack purchase occured OUTSIDE the beta, so any EULA relating to the beta is irrelevant. To be honest. if I were actually a member of CCPs legal team, instead of arguing this out, I would have long since advised them to do the following: At the time of commercial release, offer all players the one time option to have any and all aurum, real money items (merc packs, armoured assault packs, etc.) and special event items (Skinweave suits, Exile AR etc.) refunded to their account (refunded in this case meaning returned the the item redeeming system, NOT a cash refund) in exchange for a full reset - SP, ISK, items, everything. This satisfies any and all legal requirements pertaining to the matter regardless of which agreement supersedes which, even though I doubt many will take the offer.
JL3Eleven Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 286	Posted - 2013.04.14 14:13:00 - [97] - Quote Ryder Azorria wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Ryder Azorria wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: If you "acquired" the Merc Pack through gameplay, rather than purchasing it online through PSN or Gamestop (or in-store in the case of Gamestop), this would be relevant. I don't know of anyone who did, so it's not at all applicable to the Merc Pack in any situation that I've heard of as a possibility. The purchase agreement is legally binding REGARDLESS OF WHAT ANY EULA CONTENT MIGHT STATE ABOUT CCP'S RIGHT TO CHANGE THINGS. There's significant legal precedent in many countries - including CCP's chosen jurisdiction - for EULAs to be overruled by purchase agreements. By my own local laws, even the EULA's claim to apply British law can't be enforced when I'm questioning something in the purchase agreement, and my local laws (which are almost identical to British law anyway) are applicable. And by those laws, I'm entitled, regardless of the contents of any post-purchase EULA, or even a pre-purchase EULA that was made separate from the purchase itself, to what I was offered when I bought the product. While I don't have access to the resources to disprove you, and while I know that there is precedent for EULAs being overruled, I kinda doubt you have legal precedent for this exact scenario, ie. "explicitly signing away any previous or future legal rights in this matter with a legally binding document" - though if there is, wtf?! Purchase agreements are also legally binding, and are legally binding OUTSIDE of the limitations of EULAs, which are only binding within the confines of the purchased product. When you buy a Merc Pack, that purchase agreement - which includes the product description at the time of purchase - supercedes any EULA because it's applicable outside of the content itself, while the EULA isn't. Someone who agreed to the EULA before buying the Merc Pack is still legally entitled to what the Merc Pack description said at the time of purchase, in spite of them having "no legal rights" with regard to the content of the beta. The Merc Pack purchase occured OUTSIDE the beta, so any EULA relating to the beta is irrelevant. To be honest. if I were actually a member of CCPs legal team, instead of arguing this out, I would have long since advised them to do the following: At the time of commercial release, offer all players the one time option to have any and all aurum, real money items (merc packs, armoured assault packs, etc.) and special event items (Skinweave suits, Exile AR etc.) refunded to their account (refunded in this case meaning returned the the item redeeming system, NOT a cash refund) in exchange for a full reset - SP, ISK, items, everything. This satisfies any and all legal requirements pertaining to the matter regardless of which agreement supersedes which, even though I doubt many will take the offer. Its also a **** move and seen as bullying.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. 1143	Posted - 2013.04.14 14:32:00 - [98] - Quote JL3Eleven wrote: Ryder Azorria wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Ryder Azorria wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: If you "acquired" the Merc Pack through gameplay, rather than purchasing it online through PSN or Gamestop (or in-store in the case of Gamestop), this would be relevant. I don't know of anyone who did, so it's not at all applicable to the Merc Pack in any situation that I've heard of as a possibility. The purchase agreement is legally binding REGARDLESS OF WHAT ANY EULA CONTENT MIGHT STATE ABOUT CCP'S RIGHT TO CHANGE THINGS. There's significant legal precedent in many countries - including CCP's chosen jurisdiction - for EULAs to be overruled by purchase agreements. By my own local laws, even the EULA's claim to apply British law can't be enforced when I'm questioning something in the purchase agreement, and my local laws (which are almost identical to British law anyway) are applicable. And by those laws, I'm entitled, regardless of the contents of any post-purchase EULA, or even a pre-purchase EULA that was made separate from the purchase itself, to what I was offered when I bought the product. While I don't have access to the resources to disprove you, and while I know that there is precedent for EULAs being overruled, I kinda doubt you have legal precedent for this exact scenario, ie. "explicitly signing away any previous or future legal rights in this matter with a legally binding document" - though if there is, wtf?! Purchase agreements are also legally binding, and are legally binding OUTSIDE of the limitations of EULAs, which are only binding within the confines of the purchased product. When you buy a Merc Pack, that purchase agreement - which includes the product description at the time of purchase - supercedes any EULA because it's applicable outside of the content itself, while the EULA isn't. Someone who agreed to the EULA before buying the Merc Pack is still legally entitled to what the Merc Pack description said at the time of purchase, in spite of them having "no legal rights" with regard to the content of the beta. The Merc Pack purchase occured OUTSIDE the beta, so any EULA relating to the beta is irrelevant. To be honest. if I were actually a member of CCPs legal team, instead of arguing this out, I would have long since advised them to do the following: At the time of commercial release, offer all players the one time option to have any and all aurum, real money items (merc packs, armoured assault packs, etc.) and special event items (Skinweave suits, Exile AR etc.) refunded to their account (refunded in this case meaning returned the the item redeeming system, NOT a cash refund) in exchange for a full reset - SP, ISK, items, everything. This satisfies any and all legal requirements pertaining to the matter regardless of which agreement supersedes which, even though I doubt many will take the offer. Its also a **** move and seen as bullying. how so? it would fufill the "legal requirements" you guys are arguing about, and it would mean that people who brought merc packs but don't want them refunded at the cost of a reset would be fine
Ryder Azorria Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 181	Posted - 2013.04.14 14:41:00 - [99] - Quote JL3Eleven wrote: Ryder Azorria wrote: To be honest. if I were actually a member of CCPs legal team, instead of arguing this out, I would have long since advised them to do the following: At the time of commercial release, offer all players the one time option to have any and all aurum, real money items (merc packs, armoured assault packs, etc.) and special event items (Skinweave suits, Exile AR etc.) refunded to their account (refunded in this case meaning returned the the item redeeming system, NOT a cash refund) in exchange for a full reset - SP, ISK, items, everything. This satisfies any and all legal requirements pertaining to the matter regardless of which agreement supersedes which, even though I doubt many will take the offer. Its also a **** move and seen as bullying. it's the move that would annoy the least amount people. Ever since the move to TQ and the final reset, it has been generally accepted and understood that we are 'playing for keeps'. By simply giving people a full, no strings, refund CCP goes against that core principle - which annoys all the players who understand and like the HTFU nature of the universe - especially those who didn't buy any merc packs or aurum and are now missing out on a pile of free stuff. By simply having another full reset and refund, CCP annoys everyone. By offering the aforementioned deal, CCP only annoys those who think they've found a loophole that gives them something for nothing. Basically it's the lesser of three evils.
Drud Green Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2013.04.14 14:48:00 - [100] - Quote Gbghb why should a player who supported this game during closed beta be punished for wanting what they paid for? Aur refund does not eqaul skill reset. You guna cry about free boosters blah blah blah? Blame Ccp not the consumer.

JL3Eleven Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 286	Posted - 2013.04.14 14:48:00 - [101] - Quote Ryder Azorria wrote: JL3Eleven wrote: Ryder Azorria wrote: To be honest. if I were actually a member of CCPs legal team, instead of arguing this out, I would have long since advised them to do the following: At the time of commercial release, offer all players the one time option to have any and all aurum, real money items (merc packs, armoured assault packs, etc.) and special event items (Skinweave suits, Exile AR etc.) refunded to their account (refunded in this case meaning returned the the item redeeming system, NOT a cash refund) in exchange for a full reset - SP, ISK, items, everything. This satisfies any and all legal requirements pertaining to the matter regardless of which agreement supersedes which, even though I doubt many will take the offer. Its also a **** move and seen as bullying. it's the move that would annoy the least amount people. Ever since the move to TQ and the final reset, it has been generally accepted and understood that we are 'playing for keeps'. By simply giving people a full, no strings, refund CCP goes against that core principle - which annoys all the players who understand and like the HTFU nature of the universe - especially those who didn't buy any merc packs or aurum and are now missing out on a pile of free stuff. By offering the aforementioned deal, CCP only annoys those who think they've found a loophole that gives them something for nothing. You know what happens when you assume? Don't respond to this I wont be checking back. later.
Ryder Azorria Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 181	Posted - 2013.04.14 14:54:00 - [102] - Quote Drud Green wrote: Gbghb why should a player who supported this game during closed beta be punished for wanting what they paid for? Aur refund does not eqaul skill reset. You guna cry about free boosters blah blah blah? Blame Ccp not the consumer. Ps feelings are irrelavent to a purchase agreement. Simple, they've already got what they paid for. You want more, you pay more. And you're right, feelings are irrelevant to the law - this includes yours.
Drud Green Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2013.04.14 14:55:00 - [103] - Quote Ryder Azorria wrote: Drud Green wrote: Gbghb why should a player who supported this game during closed beta be punished for wanting what they paid for? Aur refund does not eqaul skill reset. You guna cry about free boosters blah blah blah? Blame Ccp not the consumer. Ps feelings are irrelavent to a purchase agreement. Simple, they've already got what they paid for. You want more, you pay more. And you're right, feelings are irrelevant to the law - this includes yours. I raise you one 'aur refund at commercial release'
Ryder Azorria Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 181	Posted - 2013.04.14 15:04:00 - [104] - Quote Drud Green wrote: Ryder Azorria wrote: Drud Green wrote: Gbghb why should a player who supported this game during closed beta be punished for wanting what they paid for? Aur refund does not eqaul skill reset. You guna cry about free boosters blah blah blah? Blame Ccp not the consumer. Ps feelings are irrelavent to a purchase agreement. Simple, they've already got what they paid for. You want more, you pay more. And you're right, feelings are irrelevant to the law - this includes yours. I raise you one 'aur refund at commercial release' And see your refund and raise you a reset. By having a optional refund for reset deal, CCP honours the letter of the agreement, which may or may not even be legally binding because of the EULA. They also honour the 'refund only on reset' spirit of the agreement and the 'you don't get something for nothing' spirit of the game.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. 1143	Posted - 2013.04.14 15:06:00 - [105] - Quote Drud Green wrote: Gbghb why should a player who supported this game during closed beta be punished for wanting what they paid for? Aur refund does not eqaul skill reset. You guna cry about free boosters blah blah blah? Blame Ccp not the consumer. Ps feelings are irrelavent to a purchase agreement. Because they brought a merc pack to receive in game items, they received those items, and every time there has been a reset CCP have refunded those items to the player. Every person who has ever brought a merc pack received the items they paid for. asking for an AURUM refund without their being a full reset is a blatant attempt to get free stuff and gain an unfair advantage over free players. You got what you payed for, why are you asking for more? and before anyone asks i've brought 2 merc packs, after the reset though.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2559	Posted - 2013.04.14 15:09:00 - [106] - Quote Game hasn't launched. More cheese with that whine?
Drud Green Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 3	Posted - 2013.04.14 15:12:00 - [107] - Quote @ Ryder as a previous poster mentioned, that would akin to bullying. Why punish people who supported the game in its early development? @Gbghg 'aur refund at commercial release'
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. 1145	Posted - 2013.04.14 15:22:00 - [108] - Quote Drud Green wrote: @ Ryder as a previous poster mentioned, that would akin to bullying. Why punish people who supported the game in its early development? @Gbghg 'aur refund at commercial release' and you are entirely missing the point, 'aur refund at commercial release' was on the assumption that there would be an sp reset at commercial release, CCP has stated that unless something goes very wrong their will be no more resets. offering an AUR reset which will then be used to buy more BPO's and boosters on top of what people already have will be an incredibly unfair and P2W on CCP's part. and please tell me how it's bulliying? you give those who want a refunf their refund, at the cost of the sp reset which prevents it from becoming unfair on other players, and those who don't want to lose all their sp to get back AURUM don't have too.
xaerael Kabiel Immobile Infantry 28	Posted - 2013.04.14 15:27:00 - [109] - Quote How in hell is it bullying? I hate space internet lawyers and their total abuse of the English language. The only bullying going on in this is you guys threatening legal action on CCP for not giving you free space money because you found what you think is an easy target loophole in the wording of something, and you're going against the spirit of CCP's honesty in regards to refunds on resets. Dishonest. To the core.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. CRONOS. 3410	Posted - 2013.04.14 15:30:00 - [110] - Quote According to Sony Terms of Service, the sale and the terms involved is no longer valid. Most Terms of Service are worded in such ways to prevent frivolous lawsuits like this. Also the wording doesnt say AUR, it says items not currency.

JL3Eleven Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 287	Posted - 2013.04.14 15:57:00 - [111] - Quote So why all the arguing and not asking for answers from CCP? That's where we all should focus our attention and not wait till May.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. CRONOS. 3412	Posted - 2013.04.14 16:07:00 - [112] - Quote CCP Nullarbor commented he thinks that 'reissuing' items you bought and spent to acquire more SP and Isk wouldn't be fair, but he stated this was just his opinion and has nothing authoritative on the issue. He also stated Cmnd Wang already made an official statement concerning this so I am currently doing a search on it.
Maken Tosch OPERATIVES OF THE GOAT 1975	Posted - 2013.04.14 16:14:00 - [113] - Quote I don't understand why this topic needs another thread when there are dozens like it already. To be frank, CCP said we are not in commercial release yet, but they keep hinting we will get there soonGäó. The "no reset" announcement is for the skill points because we will keep the SP as made apparent by the fact we will be refunded our SP on May 6. The "commercial release" clause doesn't mention at all specifically if a reset will occur at the time of commercial release. The description on the merc did say there might be resets before then (which are no longer happening) but as I pointed out, commercial release didn't state if you will be reset at the same time. Rumors are circulating that CCP is putting together a plan to address the aurum refund issue, but that is not confirmed. I say just wait until the announcement is made.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. CRONOS. 3416	Posted - 2013.04.14 16:32:00 - [114] - Quote Did the search and there was no in context reply to the issue from CCP Commander Wang. Nullarbor is going to poke hopefully some progress will get done. On a separate note: You're complaining that you still have one copy of the items per purchase you bought?
Sylvana Nightwind Expert Intervention Caldari State 233	Posted - 2013.04.14 16:34:00 - [115] - Quote So the OP is saying: I paid for ma boosters, I got ma SP but I want my aurum refund again so I can be reimbursed for moar free boosters. Hehe.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. 1150	Posted - 2013.04.14 16:39:00 - [116] - Quote Sylvana Nightwind wrote: So the OP is saying: I paid for ma boosters, I got ma SP but I want my aurum refund again so I can be reimbursed for moar free boosters. Hehe. that's what it comes down to.
Drud Green Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 4	Posted - 2013.04.14 16:43:00 - [117] - Quote Sylvana Nightwind wrote: So the OP is saying: I paid for ma boosters, I got ma SP but I want my aurum refund again so I can be reimbursed for moar free boosters. Hehe. Nope, that's what all the jealous and greedy people are saying. Op is saying 'i paid for some things, will i get all the things i paid for?' 'waaaaah they get rewarded for supporting dust in its early development waaaaaah' you naysayers are hilarious
Sylvana Nightwind Expert Intervention Caldari State 234	Posted - 2013.04.14 16:44:00 - [118] - Quote Drud Green wrote: Sylvana Nightwind wrote: So the OP is saying: I paid for ma boosters, I got ma SP but I want my aurum refund again so I can be reimbursed for moar free boosters. Hehe. Nope, that's what all the jealous and greedy people are saying. Op is saying 'i paid for some things, will i get all the things i paid for?' 'waaaaah they get rewarded for supporting dust in its early development waaaaaah' you naysayers are hilarious He got his things. He ain't getting those things twice. But I am willing to see what SONY will say ;) This is essentially their war, not CCPs.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. CRONOS. 3416	Posted - 2013.04.14 16:47:00 - [119] - Quote Look at it this way... Lets say the Merc Pack's only item was an Golden Assault Rifle. Do you get a Second Golden Rifle on commercial release? or Keep the same one?
Logi Bro Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic 1205	Posted - 2013.04.14 16:49:00 - [120] - Quote Drud Green wrote: Sylvana Nightwind wrote: So the OP is saying: I paid for ma boosters, I got ma SP but I want my aurum refund again so I can be reimbursed for moar free boosters. Hehe. Nope, that's what all the jealous and greedy people are saying. Op is saying 'i paid for some things, will i get all the things i paid for?' 'waaaaah they get rewarded for supporting dust in its early development waaaaaah' you naysayers are hilarious ACTUALLY, what the OP is saying comes close to, "I spent all my AUR on Neo Prototype Dropsuits because I thought I would get the AUR back later, but now I know I won't so I'm mad."



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