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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)
martinofski Rebelles A Quebec Orion Empire 40	Posted - 2013.03.27 18:25:00 - [61] - Quote I guess from the moment they start selling booster and items in the beta, they started having issues. It get pretty hard to change stuff without involving people's money in the end. I guess the best would be to reset the AURUM used on the items bought which changed prices only, no reset on AURUM used to buy boosters or any other stuff which never changed in price.
General Tiberius1 ZionTCD Legacy Rising 332	Posted - 2013.03.27 18:31:00 - [62] - Quote ah, now i see where this thread is comming from. been awhile since i last saw anything about refunds due to closed beta purchases (that sticky issue of buying arum with the promise of a refund) what was CCP thinking?
TheMarkOf22 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 83	Posted - 2013.03.27 18:37:00 - [63] - Quote The have to refund AUR, EULA states game is in beta, therefore a refund must be granted.
matsumoto yuichi san SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 0	Posted - 2013.03.27 18:41:00 - [64] - Quote why are people interested in a refund, some people got some stuff cheaper , sure, but it's always goign to be like that, someone got it on sale or the price went up or down at some point , as long as the item remains in the game no reason for a refund.... and in this case there have been several plaes CCP said they have no plans for a reset, so thus no reason to remove things from the game, thus no reason for a refund... perhaps i am not getting something, but everything seems fine... and no we aren't in commercial release because they reserve the right for that reset, regardless of plans or not, it's still within their rights to perform a reset of stuff because it isn't in release it's beta, but such a reset would entail refund of any aurum involved, but ONLY that would entail such an action the moment they say they are in commercial release is the moment you can expect to never have a wholesale reset, possible items on a case by case basis are removed for balance and then you may see aurum refunds for those SPECIFIC items only, but even then, its still reasonable.
Sentient Archon Red Star. 875	Posted - 2013.03.27 18:42:00 - [65] - Quote TheMarkOf22 wrote: The have to refund AUR, EULA states game is in beta, therefore a refund must be granted. I predict a SP reset if the AUR refund happens. CCP is not gonna let you hoard up all those SP and give you an AUR reset. they are gonna compel you to buy passive boosters. The only thing I will be glad about is that the game will finally be live in May! Woooooohoooooooooo!
Sete Clifton PSU GHOST SYNDICATE 74	Posted - 2013.03.27 18:42:00 - [66] - Quote TheMarkOf22 wrote: The have to refund AUR, EULA states game is in beta, therefore a refund must be granted. Yes, the terms appear to bind them legally to refunding the AUR. However, if we push for this, then the community should also be prepared to accept any potential consequences such as an SP and asset reset, both of which are completely possible and fair for CCP to do. I'm not saying that would happen for sure, but it is completely possible.
Buster Friently Rosen Association 199	Posted - 2013.03.27 18:43:00 - [67] - Quote Sentient Archon wrote: TheMarkOf22 wrote: The have to refund AUR, EULA states game is in beta, therefore a refund must be granted. I predict a SP reset if the AUR refund happens. CCP is not gonna let you hoard up all those SP and give you an AUR reset. they are gonna compel you to buy passive boosters. The only thing I will be glad about is that the game will finally be live in May! Woooooohoooooooooo! The game is already live. Do you mean launched? Or out of beta? Maybe I've missed something, but I don't think they've said that May 6th/14th is the end of beta, have they?
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2166	Posted - 2013.03.27 18:51:00 - [68] - Quote General Tiberius1 wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Moonracer2000 wrote: It is definitely a delicate situation for CCP to handle. They did change the terms of merc pack sales around open beta (to remove any mention of reset on release), so if they reset it will probably only be for closed beta sales (still quite a bit). A total reset would be a nightmare: -people that bought militia BPOs when they were super cheap would be angry. -people that have been grinding SP every day since open beta would be angry. -people that have been stockpiling ISK would be angry. -the reset would occur right as Planetary Conquest begins - the only benefit might be for new players who join in on release to not be up against proto suits A reset of just merc pack and AUR purchases from before the sales agreement change would also cause problems: -people not included would feel it is unfair -if the reset/refund doesn't effect SP people will be essentially getting free boosters (who used their AUR for that) -if items bought with AUR weren't tracked and removed properly (or already used) it could lead to more complaints. Either way CCP would lose a lot of potential future sales. Sure the merc packs sold would not cause a loss (they are virtual items, free to restore) but that would also mean fewer merc packs and AUR people would buy again in the near future. I bought two merc packs before open beta and personally would rather support the game than make demands on a technicality. As long as there is no SP wipe or character reset, I feel I put my AUR and 30 day boosters to use as intended. So basically what you're saying is that CCP is screwed no matter which route they take. Appease the pro-refund folks and you pee off those who see it as unfair for those who didn't invest any AUR and create a problem with the Dust economy and ultimately nearly kill Dust (which is really, really bad). Appease the anti-refund folks and you end up with a bunch of closed-beta players wanting to file a lawsuit on the company which would result in the loss of revenue needed to sustain Dust. Wow, there is no solution to this. yeah, that refund clause in the closed beta merc packs has been screenshotted by several people, i see no easy solution here Not an EASY solution, but there is a solution. Boosters from the Merc Pack DON'T get refunded. Boosters bought with Aurum (whether via Merc Pack or otherwise) DON'T get refunded. ALL gear is refunded, whether purchased with Aurum or ISK. SP isn't affected, and the only people with a complaint are the ones who got cheap AUR gear before the price hike, and to be fair, even though I got a lot of extra stuff because of it, I don't have a problem with being reset because the complaint about us getting to keep the gear was more valid than our complaints about losing it would be. ISK farmers won't be affected, because they keep their ISK, and get their money back from whatever they bought with it, even though they don't get to keep the gear itself.
HowDidThatTaste Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2325	Posted - 2013.03.27 18:51:00 - [69] - Quote Sete Clifton wrote: TheMarkOf22 wrote: The have to refund AUR, EULA states game is in beta, therefore a refund must be granted. Yes, the terms appear to bind them legally to refunding the AUR. However, if we push for this, then the community should also be prepared to accept any potential consequences such as an SP and asset reset, both of which are completely possible and fair for CCP to do. I'm not saying that would happen for sure, but it is completely possible. I think that is a reall slippery slope. I would not look forward to another SP wipe. The solution would be giving an option to consumers to keep what you have and no SP/AUR reset or reset both SP and Aurum and you start over. Either way when you log in you have to a check a box that agrees to the new terms and relinguishes there liability. Every one gets a nice bonus from ccp and the issue goes away. Not sure there is an answer everyone will like.
Sentient Archon Red Star. 875	Posted - 2013.03.27 18:58:00 - [70] - Quote Buster Friently wrote: The game is already live. Do you mean launched? Or out of beta? Maybe I've missed something, but I don't think they've said that May 6th/14th is the end of beta, have they? Its when no one says "Its a beta" when **** hits the fan! CCP has given it a title "Uprising". Anything with a title is either a new build or an expansion.

TheMarkOf22 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 83	Posted - 2013.03.27 18:59:00 - [71] - Quote no sp wipe but a refund of aur is the best solution and only good one.
Sentient Archon Red Star. 875	Posted - 2013.03.27 19:01:00 - [72] - Quote HowDidThatTaste wrote: Sete Clifton wrote: TheMarkOf22 wrote: The have to refund AUR, EULA states game is in beta, therefore a refund must be granted. Yes, the terms appear to bind them legally to refunding the AUR. However, if we push for this, then the community should also be prepared to accept any potential consequences such as an SP and asset reset, both of which are completely possible and fair for CCP to do. I'm not saying that would happen for sure, but it is completely possible. I think that is a reall slippery slope. I would not look forward to another SP wipe. The solution would be giving an option to consumers to keep what you have and no SP/AUR reset or reset both SP and Aurum and you start over. Either way when you log in you have to a check a box that agrees to the new terms and relinguishes there liability. Every one gets a nice bonus from ccp and the issue goes away. Not sure there is an answer everyone will like. Meh! I rather keep the SP. I couldn't give a kitten about AUR. But Que Sera, Sera! If I have to reskill again I will!
Sentient Archon Red Star. 875	Posted - 2013.03.27 19:02:00 - [73] - Quote TheMarkOf22 wrote: no sp wipe but a refund of aur is the best solution and only good one. Why? If I were CCP I would say kitten you all. If you don't wanna play the game;- don't. You cant get an AUR refund and expect CCP to just stand there and not reset the SP. Its business! Edit: All the AUR users have come this far because of AUR. Why would CCP let you come so far and then give you back everything without making you start all over again. Its simple business.
Sete Clifton PSU GHOST SYNDICATE 75	Posted - 2013.03.27 19:02:00 - [74] - Quote I would just like to mention that I personally don't care about getting any of my aurum or items back. If it actually comes to it, I don't really care if people get their stuff refunded without giving anything up and it's all essentially free. As long as my character/SP/assets stays as it currently is then my vote goes to doing whatever CCP wants.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. CRONOS. 3253	Posted - 2013.03.27 19:03:00 - [75] - Quote Sentient Archon wrote: Buster Friently wrote: The game is already live. Do you mean launched? Or out of beta? Maybe I've missed something, but I don't think they've said that May 6th/14th is the end of beta, have they? Its when no one says "Its a beta" when **** hits the fan! CCP has given it a title "Uprising". Anything with a title is either a new build or an expansion. Second Genesis was the name of the first eve online expansion OUT of beta.
ReGnUM Slayer ofWorlds Imperfects Public Relations 24	Posted - 2013.03.27 19:04:00 - [76] - Quote Sete Clifton wrote: TheMarkOf22 wrote: The have to refund AUR, EULA states game is in beta, therefore a refund must be granted. Yes, the terms appear to bind them legally to refunding the AUR. However, if we push for this, then the community should also be prepared to accept any potential consequences such as an SP and asset reset, both of which are completely possible and fair for CCP to do. I'm not saying that would happen for sure, but it is completely possible. He seems like a tough spot indeed. If CCP does not give back my AUR then CCP legal word means nothing If CCP Resets AUR and SP the their word on the forums means nothing. I don't mind the Arms Race... However, I am sure many people do not want to Re-Grind all over again Whatever the outcome becomes it will no doubt be exciting
Sentient Archon Red Star. 875	Posted - 2013.03.27 19:05:00 - [77] - Quote Sete Clifton wrote: I would just like to mention that I personally don't care about getting any of my aurum or items back. If it actually comes to it, I don't really care if people get their stuff refunded without giving anything up and it's all essentially free. As long as my character/SP/assets stays as it currently is then my vote goes to doing whatever CCP wants. Same here dude! I rather keep my SP.
Sentient Archon Red Star. 875	Posted - 2013.03.27 19:07:00 - [78] - Quote ReGnUM Slayer ofWorlds wrote: Whatever the outcome becomes it will no doubt be exciting And that's why communication is so important! Not only within CCP but between CCP and the gamers too. Quite honestly it doednt bode two well when 2 different departments within CCP contradict each other. But after being in corporate America for 15 years I know **** happens. Personally I DGAK (don't give a kitten). I look forward to the fun things that will be coming out in the next few weeks.
ReGnUM Slayer ofWorlds Imperfects Public Relations 24	Posted - 2013.03.27 19:09:00 - [79] - Quote Sete Clifton wrote: I would just like to mention that I personally don't care about getting any of my aurum or items back. If it actually comes to it, I don't really care if people get their stuff refunded without giving anything up and it's all essentially free. As long as my character/SP/assets stays as it currently is then my vote goes to doing whatever CCP wants. Iam glad you feel that way. However, this a legal matter and not one of personal opinion. If CCP goes against back on their word. Then I should never follow another rule created by CCP. Why should I follow them, when the people who created them can't be bothered to follow them. Especially when this one rule is about money
Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 630	Posted - 2013.03.27 19:09:00 - [80] - Quote Tiel Syysch wrote: xxwhitedevilxx M wrote: Aur refund should mean that you get a total wipe of SP and assets. Nowhere says that the two must go hand-in-hand. Sure, it's how it's been happening in the past, but they aren't tied to each other. Say I bought 7 merc packs, that comes with a 30 day active booster. So yes, they do need to reset SP, or else they're giving away 7 free boosters and you ended up with 14 monthly boosters even though you only paid for 7. It's refund or reset people. Of course you could pass it off as a closed beta tester gift, but that's a pretty big kitten gift... Edit: I wonder if it's possible to just remove any SP that people got from using boosters? TheMarkOf22 wrote: They have to refund AUR, EULA states game is in beta, therefore a refund must be granted. What do you care? you're gonna get banned again

Sete Clifton PSU GHOST SYNDICATE 76	Posted - 2013.03.27 19:17:00 - [81] - Quote ReGnUM Slayer ofWorlds wrote: Sete Clifton wrote: I would just like to mention that I personally don't care about getting any of my aurum or items back. If it actually comes to it, I don't really care if people get their stuff refunded without giving anything up and it's all essentially free. As long as my character/SP/assets stays as it currently is then my vote goes to doing whatever CCP wants. Iam glad you feel that way. However, this a legal matter and not one of personal opinion. If CCP goes against back on their word. Then I should never follow another rule created by CCP. Why should I follow them, when the people who created them can't be bothered to follow them. Especially when this one rule is about money I get that. I was trying to say that I'm okay with people getting their aurum refunded (as they are legally obligated to) and also keeping their SP/assets. I don't care about them having to give something up in return (SP) as a consequence of the refund and leaving me at any disadvantage. That is, as long as my character remains untouched.
Iskandar Zul Karnain Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 278	Posted - 2013.03.27 19:18:00 - [82] - Quote HowDidThatTaste wrote: I think that is a reall slippery slope. I would not look forward to another SP wipe. The solution would be giving an option to consumers to keep what you have and no SP/AUR reset or reset both SP and Aurum and you start over. Either way when you log in you have to a check a box that agrees to the new terms and relinguishes there liability. Every one gets a nice bonus from ccp and the issue goes away. Not sure there is an answer everyone will like. This is the best solution. I don't give a **** about a reset. I knew January 10th that what I spent would be gone for good. I don't want to lose my SP, ISK, BPOs, officer items etc b/c some people are butthurt. If CCP actually thinks this is necessary I hope they give us an option to opt out.
Nguruthos IX Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 173	Posted - 2013.03.27 19:18:00 - [83] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: I agree. CCP did say there will be no more SP resets for certain and everyone seems to agree to that. The only thing that left on the table to discuss as a possibility is a possible SP reallocation (reimbursement of SP). Not sure about the assets though. [/quote] This is definitely what I heard. Or else I wouldn't have wasted a single moment reaching cap in this game every week.
Mavado V Noriega SyNergy Gaming 2593	Posted - 2013.03.27 19:21:00 - [84] - Quote lolthread
Sete Clifton PSU GHOST SYNDICATE 76	Posted - 2013.03.27 19:30:00 - [85] - Quote Nguruthos IX wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: I agree. CCP did say there will be no more SP resets for certain and everyone seems to agree to that. The only thing that left on the table to discuss as a possibility is a possible SP reallocation (reimbursement of SP). Not sure about the assets though. This is definitely what I heard. Or else I wouldn't have wasted a single moment reaching cap in this game every week. I agree, and I think most people agree. However, CCP is on record as saying that even though they didn't/don't plan to do an SP reset, they have reserved the right to in the case of some catastrophic event. I'd consider a bunch of players taking legal action as potentially "catastrophic". I don't want them to reset SP, but I wouldn't be surprised if it did happen because of this.
Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 630	Posted - 2013.03.27 19:31:00 - [86] - Quote HowDidThatTaste wrote: The solution would be giving an option to consumers to keep what you have and no SP/AUR reset or reset both SP and Aurum and you start over. Either way when you log in you have to a check a box that agrees to the new terms and relinguishes there liability. Every one gets a nice bonus from ccp and the issue goes away. Not sure there is an answer everyone will like. That's really is the best way to go, I'd like to see someone resst 6 mill SP just to get 20 bucks back.
Nguruthos IX Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 173	Posted - 2013.03.27 19:31:00 - [87] - Quote Zlocha wrote: In my opinion there wont be any refunds. Since it got in open beta they said that there will not be any more resets. No SP resets, no AUR resets and no asset resets. And this is the way like it should be i really dont want to start from scratch so i save some AUR spent wrong. If I'm not keeping my assets, Isk, and SP then I'll be playing this game about 1/10th as much and definitely not paying for another aurum. I don't have time to level one character twice in a game. Spent way too much time already :(
Nguruthos IX Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 173	Posted - 2013.03.27 19:34:00 - [88] - Quote Sete Clifton wrote: Nguruthos IX wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: I agree. CCP did say there will be no more SP resets for certain and everyone seems to agree to that. The only thing that left on the table to discuss as a possibility is a possible SP reallocation (reimbursement of SP). Not sure about the assets though. This is definitely what I heard. Or else I wouldn't have wasted a single moment reaching cap in this game every week. I agree, and I think most people agree. However, CCP is on record as saying that even though they didn't/don't plan to do an SP reset, they have reserved the right to in the case of some catastrophic event. I'd consider a bunch of players legally demanding their aurum back (which effects SP) as potentially "catastrophic". I don't want them to reset SP (or a refund), but I wouldn't be surprised if it did happen because of this. They had a statement saying there would not be any resets of any kind, till release, unless something catastrophic happened. ~In which case it would ONLY be a full SP refund, to be reallocated into newly designed skill trees. Nothing about wiping Aur, assets, ISK, SP , or refunding AUR, or refunding aur (while wiping SP, ISK, assets, etc).
Sete Clifton PSU GHOST SYNDICATE 76	Posted - 2013.03.27 19:36:00 - [89] - Quote Nguruthos IX wrote: Sete Clifton wrote: Nguruthos IX wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: I agree. CCP did say there will be no more SP resets for certain and everyone seems to agree to that. The only thing that left on the table to discuss as a possibility is a possible SP reallocation (reimbursement of SP). Not sure about the assets though. This is definitely what I heard. Or else I wouldn't have wasted a single moment reaching cap in this game every week. I agree, and I think most people agree. However, CCP is on record as saying that even though they didn't/don't plan to do an SP reset, they have reserved the right to in the case of some catastrophic event. I'd consider a bunch of players legally demanding their aurum back (which effects SP) as potentially "catastrophic". I don't want them to reset SP (or a refund), but I wouldn't be surprised if it did happen because of this. They had a statement saying there would not be any resets of any kind, till release, unless something catastrophic happened. ~In which case it would ONLY be a full SP refund, to be reallocated into newly designed skill trees. Nothing about wiping Aur, assets, ISK, SP , or refunding AUR, or refunding aur (while wiping SP, ISK, assets, etc). Here is the direct quote: "We currently have no plans to reset your characters' skill points to a state where they are equivalent to a newly created character, barring something catastrophic." So yes, if something catastrophic happens, they can completely wipe SP.
TheMarkOf22 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 83	Posted - 2013.03.27 19:38:00 - [90] - Quote HowDidThatTaste wrote: Sete Clifton wrote: TheMarkOf22 wrote: The have to refund AUR, EULA states game is in beta, therefore a refund must be granted. Yes, the terms appear to bind them legally to refunding the AUR. However, if we push for this, then the community should also be prepared to accept any potential consequences such as an SP and asset reset, both of which are completely possible and fair for CCP to do. I'm not saying that would happen for sure, but it is completely possible. I think that is a reall slippery slope. I would not look forward to another SP wipe. The solution would be giving an option to consumers to keep what you have and no SP/AUR reset or reset both SP and Aurum and you start over. Either way when you log in you have to a check a box that agrees to the new terms and relinguishes there liability. Every one gets a nice bonus from ccp and the issue goes away. Not sure there is an answer everyone will like. for everytime i die due to a bug, dont you think im entitled to have my aurum refunded without an sp reset? your idea is dumb, no offense.



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