You want the freedom to be diverse and drive your ship, but won't respect the freedom of others to want to play a mode where vehicles don't roll over them?

Segregation of the player base isn't a good enough reason that infantry only is a bad idea?

So I take it that means we have to scrap all PvE game types right, since it would split people up?

Not at all, there's a difference between wanting competitive without certain weapons ane just wanting to shoot Ai

Segregation of the player base isn't a good enough reason that infantry only is a bad idea?

So I take it that means we have to scrap all PvE game types right, since it would split people up?

Indoor maps. No vehicles. Done.

You want the freedom to be diverse and drive your ship, but won't respect the freedom of others to want to play a mode where vehicles don't roll over them?

Indoor maps. No vehicles. Done.

I'm not TOTALLY against the idea of an infantry based game mode. But I'm VERY strongly against the idea of replacing one of our existing modes with it.

You want the freedom to be diverse and drive your ship, but won't respect the freedom of others to want to play a mode where vehicles don't roll over them?

Indoor maps. No vehicles. Done.

but of they are having fun

So it's a big problem if people get infantry skills, then AV once they are comfortable with the game? I don't see how or why.
Infantry only players will get called carebears, but of they are having fun, that's sort of all that matters yeah?

Now we know why this idea came about. It's because presently tanks own everyone.

You mean newberries? You're right, I'm sorry tankers won't get to slaughter noobs anymore. Honestly, the only people who don't know how to fight a tank are noobs charging at them with their little ARs.

I take back what I said about the lack of supply depots, newberries are the reason tankers hangout in ambush.

Absolutely because being unable to play a.game mode with certain weapons is SO fun

Absolutely because being unable to play a.game mode with certain weapons is SO fun

No, no one plays video games for fun. BTW if you don't use Falco or Fox in Super Smash Bros, then your're a scrub.

You want the freedom to be diverse and drive your ship, but won't respect the freedom of others to want to play a mode where vehicles don't roll over them?

Indoor maps. No vehicles. Done.

Most people advocating infantry only don't mean infantry only. They mean No Tanks. Because they're tired of being pubstomped by tanks.

Let's be honest here. What you're complaining against isn't vehicles. When's the last time a LAV or DS owned you?

Its strickly tanks. And that's likely because there's not enough other vehicles in the game yet to dethrone their god status and level things out.

Most people advocating infantry only don't mean infantry only. They mean No Tanks. Because they're tired of being pubstomped by tanks.

But such a hasty generalization of "no vehicles" rather than "no tanks" is unjustified.

False, tanks don't own everyone, I'd go so far as to call them underpowered, tanks only own newberries.

False, tanks don't own everyone, I'd go so far as to call them underpowered, tanks only own newberries.
[

If we give players a safe haven from vehicle's a lot of people will be able to ignore AV skills

I play games to smash people. That's fun for me.

Then just....choose a different gametype?

No one would be forcing you to play that gametype.

Ughh...go sue Taco Bell because they don't offer chinese food, clearly they hate the Chinese. Or would an infantry only mode, not necessarily ambush, prevent you from playing with tanks elsewhere?

False, tanks don't own everyone, I'd go so far as to call them underpowered, tanks only own newberries.

So because of people whining I can't choose what gametype I want to play? Makes perfect sense

Then why do you need them out of ambush so bad?

Who dafuq??? Who says you can't choose... boy, that takes a special kind of stupid.

And? that's their choice to make.

As for why, cause it's fun? Is "fun" not good enough, what are all of you doing playing a video game?

I can't choose what gametype because I can't use the weapon i want to use, it's not even that my weapon type isn't good on that mode

Games are much more fun when the enemy can escalate and bring a new unit to the battlefield and force you to adapt to the situation at hand.

Right, right, you go to Chinese food places and then get mad when they wont give you Mexican food don't you?
No on would force you to play an IO mode... dude, just stop, you're not even making sense at this point.

It's not a Chinese food place, the game was a buffet until people started crying about diversity

That's your idea of fun, and our current ambush accommodates you perfectly if that's the case. What do you have against a new IO mode?

No, skirmish is a buffet. The game in this case is every restaurant in your neighborhood. So why did you go to the chinese food place if you wanted mexican food?

I
ADAPT OR DIE

HTFU

Again no, it's currently a buffet since every weapon van be used. Then people whined about diversity

It doesn't take much to invest into some AV fittings.

I got to Forge Gunning Lvl 2, got an Assault Forge Gun, threw on a Complex Damage Modifier and picked some AV grenades.

That fitting only costs 29k ISK, compared to the 1mil a well fit tank might cost.

I can still take out a tank, I have done so, took out one today without it even seeing me.

This arguement is aimed at those Assault players who skill into nothing but ARs and Assault dropsuits then complain when a tank rolls over them and they cant fight back.

What do you expect?

That's nice, but noobs don't have the option to adapt, because like you said, they lack the SP. Newberries are the only people who have a problem facing tanks, I don't have a problem with tanks, but I would like an IO mode. Whats the problem?

That's nice, but noobs don't have the option to adapt, because like you said, they lack the SP. Newberries are the only people who have a problem facing tanks, I don't have a problem with tanks, but I would like an IO mode. What the problem?

What about people who want to play an objective based game mode, don't they feel left out of Ambush? No, they don't, because they have Skirmish. Variety comes in more forms than what weapons you can bring into a match.

Invest the tiny amount of sp it requires with the starting sp and boom, you can kill tanks. I use swarm launchers with only 2 levels into it

Wrong. I have Proto FG's and Adv. Nades... yet I still would like to see an infantry only game mode.

Edit: Plus i have Adv. Swarms...

That's nice, but noobs don't have the option to adapt, because like you said, they lack the SP. Newberries are the only people who have a problem facing tanks, I don't have a problem with tanks, but I would like an IO mode. Whats the problem?

Then why would we need to separate by weapons?

Wrong. I have Proto FG's and Adv. Nades... yet I still would like to see an infantry only game mode.

Edit: Plus i have Adv. Swarms...

You can say that because you have experience with dust, newberries see the skill sheet and don't know wtf to do. It's those same newberries that go up against 5 tanks and never switch to AV.

Because why not? Split the player base? Skirmish and the eventual PVE will already do that.

You're that guy telling Naughty Dog to cut multiplier from Uncharted because all you ever do is play story mode.

Why?

Tanks are fun to go up against, there is nothing as fun in this game as wasting an expensive tank.

That doesn't split the player base, it gives people more options without limiting what they use to play

That's nice, but noobs don't have the option to adapt, because like you said, they lack the SP. Newberries are the only people who have a problem facing tanks, I don't have a problem with tanks, but I would like an IO mode. Whats the problem?

Fun for you, what do you have against CCP catering to other people sense of fun?

What? No, don't add Indian food to the menu, I wont eat it anyway.

It doesn't matter, it's still limiting them.

Dude, if you want to play against tanks, THEN DON'T GO INTO IO MODE, NO ONE IS ******* LIMITING YOU, THAT HAS GOT TO BE THE STUPIDEST THING I'VE EVER READ. A new mode in no way limits what you can do as long as you have alternatives.

Then make it a SP minimum to enter? so it attracts a pubstomp arena against ppl who are going to put up a fight which is what most IO guys want anyway to test player skill against other vets.

You mean what do I have against CCP catering to new players?

Its because they could be focusing on more important problems than this.

In fact its not even a problem.

Adding a new mode i can't use specific weapons on is still a way of splitting the player base, are you that thick you can't recognize this?

Tanks are a problem when playing against a decent tank driver, especially when you are running in a squad that isn't great at taking out vehicles. If you only have one good AV player, there is practically no chance that they will destroy a well fit tank.

It would be nice to have a mode where we don't have to worry about getting stomped by a tank. That said, in no way should this mode even touch planetary conquest or corp battles.

You do realize that CCP would likely give us such maps as "an option" just like being able to choose between Ambush, Ambush OMS, and Skirmish, correct?

You mean what do I have against CCP catering to new players?

Its because they could be focusing on more important problems than this.

In fact its not even a problem.

You can say that because you have experience with dust, newberries see the skill sheet and don't know wtf to do. It's those same newberries that go up against 5 tanks and never switch to AV.

Even 1 good AV player can be enough to restrict a tanks movements and make it difficult to dominate your team

Um. Are you suggesting every video game should cater to a crown of people who choose to completely ignore every mechanic and aspect of that game?

Oh no! The average World of Warcraft player is too stupid to figure out how to "not stand in the fire". We'd better remove fire from the game. Also from now on all PVE encounters are click-to-kill. There, now they don't have to learn anything and every new player can have so much FUN when they first join =D

I read through all these comments and still can't figure out why people have a problem with a different game mode... you know you still have a choice to select the game mode right?

Losing faith in this community daily. Adding a different game mode = bad...did I miss something somewhere???

Who gives a rats ass, skirmish already does this, OMS already does, PVE will do this, any new game mode will only further split the player base. I guess that means no capture the flag right? it doesn't matter how it splits it, it's still splitting it.

You're acting like if the existence of McDonalds stops you from going to Burger King. that has got to be the worst logic I've ever seen.

Right, because it would so hard to program this? i bet it wouldn't even take 1 hour.

...

Still needs good infantry to keep him safe, unless he's just spamming AV grenades.

Um. Are you suggesting every video game should cater to a crown of people who choose to completely ignore every mechanic and aspect of that game?

Oh no! The average World of Warcraft player is too stupid to figure out how to "not stand in the fire". We'd better remove fire from the game. Also from now on all PVE encounters are click-to-kill. There, now they don't have to learn anything and every new player can have so much FUN when they first join =D

New Games modes =/= preventing the use of players skills/builds/weapons/etc from entering that map what-so-ever.

Sorry read that wrong, drunk. Thought you were excusing newberries from not swapping to AV and saying they shouldn't have to learn why they should.

It doesn't matter, it's still limiting them.

Dude, if you want to play against tanks, THEN DON'T GO INTO IO MODE, NO ONE IS ******* LIMITING YOU, THAT HAS GOT TO BE THE STUPIDEST THING I'VE EVER READ. A new mode in no way limits what you can do as long as you have alternatives.

Sidearms and the many secondary suggestions being made in the feedback part of the forum

I'm saying give them somewhere else to hangout so my team doesn't get steamrolled because all the blueberries were to stupid to switch to AV, which they are, 90% of the time.

but I'm not taking down 5 guys who know where I'm at because I just launched the bat signal into the sky without some support.

Obviously all this will do is create a game mode of AV vs Tanks.

And gun-infantry vs gun-infantry.

See the problem? The rock paper scissors here is
Infantry --> AV --> Tanks --> Infantry

Now you have a game of Rock vs Rock
and Paper vs Scissors.

0 tanks (or any vehicle) would queue. Vehicles are effectively removed from the game. I hope CCP can see this, its a terrible idea.

Good.

You're not supposed to be able to.

Working as intended.

Hey, I can handle myself pretty well with a Scrambler, but I'm not taking down 5 guys who know where I'm at because I just launched the bat signal into the sky without some support.

Hey, I can handle myself pretty well with a Scrambler, but I'm not taking down 5 guys who know where I'm at because I just launched the bat signal into the sky without some support.

You're telling me an IO mode would completely stop people from using guns in regular ambush? You've never been in a corp battle have you?

but I'm not taking down 5 guys who know where I'm at because I just launched the bat signal into the sky without some support.

And the food metaphors in this thread have gotten out of control.

I never said I was supposed to, you're the one who said that 1 AV guy could keep a tank pinned by himself. My response was "not if that tank has support and the AV guy doesn't", which we don't most of the time

Go on, play solo ambush without a squad, then comback and tell me how many tanks you took out by yourself while the blues just hung out in their little blob.

It's like fight O&S without summoning Solaire, good luck with that sh*t. I have done it BTW

They also made me hungry, Man I want some Chinese Food now...

You want the freedom to be diverse and drive your ship, but won't respect the freedom of others to want to play a mode where vehicles don't roll over them?

I never said i was supposed to, you're the one who said that 1 AV guy could keep a tank pinned by himself. My response was "not if that tank has support and the AV guy doesn't, which we don't most of the time"

Go on, play solo ambush without a squad, then comback and tell me how many tanks you took out by yourself while the blues just hung out in their little blob.

It essentially would when you look at the prices.

AV (cheap) as in free-tens of thousands.

Vehicles. Effectively range from 500k-million ISK ds
and 1-3 million ISk tanks.

Tell me, what idiot will call in a vehicle instead of come cheap or free/militia AV when fighting an entire team of people who know their vehicle will be forge-gunned from the sky before a ******** RDV has even the chance to crash it into a wall for them???

You mean AV people who know what they're doing? You're just proving my point that tanks only do well because they always go up against noobs, but guess what? All those people who switched over to AV are now easy to pick off with infantry, that was what you said right? Paper, scissors, rock.

Just because you cant take out a tank on your own, doesn't mean I cant.

yeah... And you're proving my point that if you eliminate rock from rock paper scissors which is FINE. Then you end up with paper scissors which is inherently broken .

No one mentioned Italian food even though I was eating spaghetti not long ago

No one mentioned Italian food even though I was eating spaghetti not long ago

Why would anyone switch to paper if no one is using rock? lol

"I know they can't use vehicles, but I switched to AV anyway for the lols"

Why would anyone switch to paper if no one is using rock? lol

"I know they can't use vehicles, but I switched to AV anyway for the lols"

I really got a hankering for chipotle reading this thread. Not sure why,

Anyone who wanted to use guns would be using guns in IO
Anyone who wanted to blow up tanks with gear that cost 1000x less than the tanks would join the other ambush.
Anyone who wanted to lose their tank with no feasible chance of financial compensation or victory after calling it in would que non IO


And no other vehicle ever would be used anywhere after.

Without scissors (tanks) there's no need for rock (Av) so we're only left with a loop of paper.

Like I said, you need to try a corp battle without decent AV. I guarantee it won't be fun.

I take it you've never had a paperball fight? Oh, how I miss my childhood

I guess you never have, it was funner when food was added to it

You mean AV people who know what they're doing? You're just proving my point that tanks only do well because they always go up against noobs, but guess what? All those people who switched over to AV are now easy to pick off with infantry, that was what you said right? Paper, scissors, rock.

I never have what? I had food fights, they usually didn't end well for me.

The only way noobs become AV people who know what they're doing is by going up against tanks, willingly or not.

Had a paper ball fight, which is just a catalyst for a food fight to escalate

I never learned how to sow, you going to force me to learn how to sow?

Well when you have to choose between sowing and repeating your last year of high school which do you choose?

Well when you have to choose between sowing and repeating your last year of high school which do you choose?

he wants to dropout then but still get the degree

Sowing, but not everyone wants to graduate to the big leagues. So if a guy wants to stay in IO for his whole life then let him, he's choosing to miss out on the fun.

Anyone who wanted to use guns would be using guns in IO
Anyone who wanted to blow up tanks with gear that cost 1000x less than the tanks would join the other ambush.
Anyone who wanted to lose their tank with no feasible chance of financial compensation or victory after calling it in would que non IO


And no other vehicle ever would be used anywhere after.

how is it that we have to keep explaining this?

So segregating graduates and drop outs is the only way for things go to work when there are wayys around it already?

This thread is actually making my brain bleed. What makes you think that giving people the chance to not fight vehicles somehow means that everyone who plays normal game types become super AV monsters? You do realize that people specing AV are specing AV regardless of game type, right? You do realize that these players will be in those games no matter what, right?

You do realize that all this does is give people a chance to fight without having to waddle around in AV all match, without hurting vehicle people because ::gasp:: their game types will be the same as always?

And as always, Sov. That's the playground, anything goes there. These are GAME TYPES, things you CHOOSE to play. NOTHING is forced on you....how is it that we have to keep explaining this?

That's just what this games needs. A game with specialization and variety of skills to be broken apart into subsets.

Now I have never driven a tank and never want to. However look at this from my perspective as a DS pilot.
If I want to use my dropship I'd have to queue against an entire team that's either using tanks
(which instantly kill me)
Or against AV
(which is balanced against tanks, and also instantly kill me)

So um.... Yeah. Essentially this would ruin the game for me or anyone who enjoys having diversity in their matches. Where each game is different, team is different and you don't know what to expect.

Now we know why this idea came about. It's because presently tanks own everyone. If there was more content in the game this wouldn't be a problem. If there were fighters and gunships that killed tanks, properly balanced AV and less free/militia gear ruining the cost-risk-balance then Infantry only Ambush would not have been considered.

So how about instead of ruining the game early be segregating AV vs Tanks and Guns vs Guns to their own games maybe just wait for new content. You could lobby for it, but it won't speed CCP up. Or you could lobby a quick and short sighted band-aid that would be easy to implement but completely devastating to the entire point of this game.

Nobody who plays this game really want it to try to be a COD clone. CoD is boring as balls and CCP would fail in that market.
It's supposed to be some kind of MMO FPS but like eve. Imagine someone in eve suggesting a frigates only sector of the universe...

You need 8 guys for a corp battle, there's 2 guys equally good at infantry, but only 1 who skilled into AV and there's only 1 spot left, who do you put on the team? Segregation based on skill happens in the real world too you know, we don't let people without educations, and it has to be a special education not GED, work at NASA, well, maybe as janitors, idk.

Skirmish will still be there for the tankers and DS pilots, in fact that is really where they belong and where they have true purpose.

People generally play ambush to fight against infantry, not tanks or anything else (with possibly the exception of LAV's, which can be handled with AV nades but not completely make the player defenseless to infantry like a AV fit against a tank would).

The thing with ambush is that there is no supply depots (well there is on one or two of the maps, but they come up very rarely). Which means unless somebody wants to suicide to pick a AV fit to deal with the tank, players have to wait until they die to switch (that is if they have an AV fit at all). Then sometimes when we do switch, somebody else gets the tanker while we are spawning or shortly thereafter, and we are left with a AV fit which is nearly 100% defenseless against other infantry players.

Non-supply depot ambush should not be a mode which harbors tanks and other vehicles that need dedicated AV to take out. it is wrong is so many ways, and that is the key to this whole subject. A tankers risk in ambush is significantly reduced than if they were playing OMS or skirmish.

False. Somebody might skill for One, the other, both, or neither. depending on how much SP they have and how they wish to use it.

That's called a tactical mistake, when you know you're more than likely facing vehicles

A lot of people are getting the impression that Ambush will be turned into an infantry-only mode.

NOT that we'll get a new mode with no vehicles, but that Ambush will no longer exist in its current form, and will be an infantry-only mode.

Ambush (with no vehicles)
Ambush OMS (as normal)
Skirmish (as normal)

That's what the thread CCP said they're "considering" was asking for.

I don't want that.

I'm not TOTALLY against the idea of an infantry based game mode. But I'm VERY strongly against the idea of replacing one of our existing modes with it.

And the player-base split is another reason against it.

"Dropships are OP, they're killing everyone and I can't take it down with free AV!" ~Said no one ever

Most dropships seem to ust outrun my swarm missiles, making them rather difficult to take down. I can normally get 1 shot in with swarm launcher then the ship just flys away staying just ahead of my missiles until they blow up in mid air. Is there something I don't know or is this a common occurance. Swarm missiles seem to be designed to take down arial vehicles yet they seem to be ultimately best against LAVs.

Also has anyone brought up a topic concerning making the swarm missiles more like EVE allowing for different damage type from missiles? Would make taking down shield based vehicles much more manageable with SL.

I hate to break it to you but

=D

You found someone pre AB nerf who didn't figure out how to spend 5k on a militia forge gun I guess.

Besides the obvious fact that that one noob with his single swarm admits to being able to stave off a DS from doing anything useful an entire match by firing off one shot. Imagine being able to do that with a tank.

Pull out one swarm and it hides behind a hill getting zero player kills for the rest of the match. That would point to AV being unbalanced in AV's favor I'd think right ?
:P

Again so you draw the exception at LAV's Because they're worthless. You COULD spend 500k on one but it would be taken out by free swarms instantly so nobody does.

Now if you'd just also admit that the same exception could be drawn for dropships because

"Dropships are OP, they're killing everyone and I can't take it down with free AV!" ~Said no one ever
then you'd be agreeing with me that this issue arose because of tanks and not vehicles in general.

IO lobby is a cry against the lack of content balancing tanks out, and not against LAV's. Not against DS and definitely not against LAVs.
Therefore since Vehicles = {lav, ds, hav}. And {LAV, DS} is a non issue then this is an issue about HAV.

Well I certainly am not going to say that dropships are some huge problem in ambush, they are pretty rare and it's not like it was in early Codex where they could own the battlefield single-handedly. But why would you even want to bring a DS into ambush? The maps are tiny, and it's not as if spawning and dropping from a DS in ambush would make any tactical sense (unless your a sniper and want to get up to an unreachable spot). Really the only thing a DS does in ambush is provide intel and maybe draw the attention of the enemy players a little bit.

However DS's do fall in the same category as tanks because players need a dedicated AV fit to take them out (even if it is BPO militia swarms, it's still dedicated to taking out AV and not infantry). LAV do not require dedicated AV, so players can still have a perfectly capable fit for dealing with infantry, but also at the same time keep the LAV's at bay.

Right, so you would choose the guy who's more versatile over the guy who isn't? I would.

nope this thread was started yesterday *sigh* some people just... ugh here's the link
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=65145&p=1

God it's like oozing troll and fail.

Ultimately it's CCP's choice. It's their game and people will play it or not. But if that's the sort of player they're trying to attract and retain then I'm not sure I'd stick around much.

So he was saying that on one of the few maps that has any cover, dropships sometimes run and hide from his free, zero SP weapon and are rendered useless and out of sight the rest of the game. But this upsets him because that weapon won't also instantly explode a million ISK 3 million SP vehicle that survived against all odds with the RDV deployment.

erm....

Have fun getting steamrolled by vehicles

Well I certainly am not going to say that dropships are some huge problem in ambush, they are pretty rare and it's not like it was in early Codex where they could own the battlefield single-handedly. But why would you even want to bring a DS into ambush? The maps are tiny, and it's not as if spawning and dropping from a DS in ambush would make any tactical sense (unless your a sniper and want to get up to an unreachable spot). Really the only thing a DS does in ambush is provide intel and maybe draw the attention of the enemy players a little bit.

However DS's do fall in the same category as tanks because players need a dedicated AV fit to take them out (even if it is BPO militia swarms, it's still dedicated to taking out AV and not infantry). LAV do not require dedicated AV, so players can still have a perfectly capable fit for dealing with infantry, but also at the same time keep the LAV's at bay.

So Paper wants a no-Rock game mode?

"Dropships are OP, they're killing everyone and I can't take it down with free AV!" ~Said no one ever
then you'd be agreeing with me that this issue arose because of tanks and not vehicles in general.

So Paper wants a no-Rock game mode?

I'm sure Paper loves Rock, you might be thinking Scissors here...

AV nades are just as deadly to dropships as they are too LAV's. I've lost ships to 1 person throwing packed AV at me when i hovered too low and was moving too slowly.

Why would I want a DS in ambush?
- Scanners, limited cover fire, flanking, because it's all im skilled for, I might enjoy ambush and want to get the isk/SP from it if there's no corp contracts around at the time and or I don't enjoy PVE.

"However DS's do fall in the same category as tanks because players need a dedicated AV fit to take them out (even if it is BPO militia swarms". Also AV has either side arms which make them not totally useless. Or forge guns are incredible anti infantry weapons as well. When I want to troll a battlefield I just fit a militia forge and 1 shot snipe anyone over a hill.
- Not really, anyone can have a free AV fit. And if any 1-3 people decide to don their free AV fits they will either drive away or quickly eliminate any DS. No skill points required. No isk required. I have to disagree that it therefore falls into the same category as tanks.

I'm saying I would choose the guy with AV skills -_-, Preferably more than 1, and someone with tank skills. Why would anyone ever pack a team with nothing but Infantry?

To capture the objective, you're not meant to only skill for anti infantry weapons

No, it's part of the meta-game; if Paper has a no-Rock game mode it will look as if Scissor is OP and CCP will (after a few months of complaints) over-nerf Scissors.

And then Paper will have a large advantage in other game modes.

This Is what happens when you have tanks in ambush

http://s1298.photobucket.com/user/LudwigVanBeatdropin/library/?page=1

This^

Tanks are easy for an experienced player to avoid/kill. The solution to this isn't a new game mode, but rather a ladder system being used in matchmaking so that you play with people within your skill level. Tanks are only OP against newberries, most vets I know see them as $$ signs when the enemy brings them in.

You sir are a turd burger, was literally just about to post this >_<

But giving us an infantry mode breaks the game