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DJINN leukoplast
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
354
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Posted - 2013.03.23 22:15:00 -
[1] - Quote
Nguruthos IX wrote:That's just what this games needs. A game with specialization and variety of skills to be broken apart into subsets.
Now I have never driven a tank and never want to. However look at this from my perspective as a DS pilot.
If I want to use my dropship I'd have to queue against an entire team that's either using tanks
(which instantly kill me)
Or against AV
(which is balanced against tanks, and also instantly kill me)
So um.... Yeah. Essentially this would ruin the game for me or anyone who enjoys having diversity in their matches. Where each game is different, team is different and you don't know what to expect.
Now we know why this idea came about. It's because presently tanks own everyone. If there was more content in the game this wouldn't be a problem. If there were fighters and gunships that killed tanks, properly balanced AV and less free/militia gear ruining the cost-risk-balance then Infantry only Ambush would not have been considered.
So how about instead of ruining the game early be segregating AV vs Tanks and Guns vs Guns to their own games maybe just wait for new content. You could lobby for it, but it won't speed CCP up. Or you could lobby a quick and short sighted band-aid that would be easy to implement but completely devastating to the entire point of this game.
Nobody who plays this game really want it to try to be a COD clone. CoD is boring as balls and CCP would fail in that market.
It's supposed to be some kind of MMO FPS but like eve. Imagine someone in eve suggesting a frigates only sector of the universe...
Skirmish will still be there for the tankers and DS pilots, in fact that is really where they belong and where they have true purpose.
People generally play ambush to fight against infantry, not tanks or anything else (with possibly the exception of LAV's, which can be handled with AV nades but not completely make the player defenseless to infantry like a AV fit against a tank would).
The thing with ambush is that there is no supply depots (well there is on one or two of the maps, but they come up very rarely). Which means unless somebody wants to suicide to pick a AV fit to deal with the tank, players have to wait until they die to switch (that is if they have an AV fit at all). Then sometimes when we do switch, somebody else gets the tanker while we are spawning or shortly thereafter, and we are left with a AV fit which is nearly 100% defenseless against other infantry players.
Non-supply depot ambush should not be a mode which harbors tanks and other vehicles that need dedicated AV to take out. it is wrong is so many ways, and that is the key to this whole subject. A tankers risk in ambush is significantly reduced than if they were playing OMS or skirmish.
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DJINN leukoplast
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
354
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 22:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
Nguruthos IX wrote:
Again so you draw the exception at LAV's Because they're worthless. You COULD spend 500k on one but it would be taken out by free swarms instantly so nobody does.
Now if you'd just also admit that the same exception could be drawn for dropships because
"Dropships are OP, they're killing everyone and I can't take it down with free AV!" ~Said no one ever
then you'd be agreeing with me that this issue arose because of tanks and not vehicles in general.
IO lobby is a cry against the lack of content balancing tanks out, and not against LAV's. Not against DS and definitely not against LAVs.
Therefore since Vehicles = {lav, ds, hav}. And {LAV, DS} is a non issue then this is an issue about HAV.
Well I certainly am not going to say that dropships are some huge problem in ambush, they are pretty rare and it's not like it was in early Codex where they could own the battlefield single-handedly. But why would you even want to bring a DS into ambush? The maps are tiny, and it's not as if spawning and dropping from a DS in ambush would make any tactical sense (unless your a sniper and want to get up to an unreachable spot). Really the only thing a DS does in ambush is provide intel and maybe draw the attention of the enemy players a little bit.
However DS's do fall in the same category as tanks because players need a dedicated AV fit to take them out (even if it is BPO militia swarms, it's still dedicated to taking out AV and not infantry). LAV do not require dedicated AV, so players can still have a perfectly capable fit for dealing with infantry, but also at the same time keep the LAV's at bay.
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DJINN leukoplast
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
354
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 23:21:00 -
[3] - Quote
gbghg wrote:
AV nades are just as deadly to dropships as they are too LAV's. I've lost ships to 1 person throwing packed AV at me when i hovered too low and was moving too slowly.
Yes I have done that before as well, however I wouldn't bring AV nades with the sole intention of taking out a DS, nor would it be worth replacing my anti-infantry M1's in the unlikely event I will get the opportunity to be close enough to them to score a hit with nades. Because this scenario is 100% reliant on the pilot and whether or not the situation warrants them vulnerable to the distance of a nade throw (pretty rare).
Nguruthos IX wrote:
Why would I want a DS in ambush?
- Scanners, limited cover fire, flanking, because it's all im skilled for, I might enjoy ambush and want to get the isk/SP from it if there's no corp contracts around at the time and or I don't enjoy PVE.
"However DS's do fall in the same category as tanks because players need a dedicated AV fit to take them out (even if it is BPO militia swarms". Also AV has either side arms which make them not totally useless. Or forge guns are incredible anti infantry weapons as well. When I want to troll a battlefield I just fit a militia forge and 1 shot snipe anyone over a hill.
- Not really, anyone can have a free AV fit. And if any 1-3 people decide to don their free AV fits they will either drive away or quickly eliminate any DS. No skill points required. No isk required. I have to disagree that it therefore falls into the same category as tanks.
I am finding it rather difficult to follow your incoherent rambling. But it seems you are missing the point. You assume a team full of random players will work together to take out a DS, however that is irreverent to the topic. You also miss the point about a player having to use a fit that is absolutely worthless against infantry.
Who cares if it's free and whether or not it's capable of taking out a DS, that isn't the point here, if a player has swarms as their main to take out that tank or DS, then that leaves them with only a secondary to fend off other infantry players. I for one would not want to take on one or two assault players with a Toxin or Scrambler, sure they are great in a pinch but not as main weapons (at least for me). And that is what happens to players who have to use a swarm as a main, they become anti-infantry handicapped until they die and choose the proper anti-infantry fit.
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