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![Oxskull Duncarino Oxskull Duncarino](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/avatars/avatar_1_male_128.jpg)
Oxskull Duncarino
Shadow Company HQ
181
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Posted - 2013.03.17 22:17:00 -
[271] - Quote
Rei Shepard wrote:
Please inform me how this makes you an expert and why current tactics shouldnt work, isn't everyone thats playing not using human tactics?
So basically what you guys are saying, the Heavy needs to be The Better Assault +1 ?
At no point have I said I'm an expert. But having a basic knowledge of epochs in battlefield history would show that use of a tactic that was valid at the time against a newly introduced weapon system or just a basic mechanic, resulted in the deaths of those using those tactics. So, using present, 21st century, military weapons doctrine as an example of how weapons from 20,000 years in the future should be dealt with, is massively flawed, as I pointed out. Fair enough, I pointed it out while laughing at you, but it's still valid.
If you have an interest in this kind of stuff then you should look into the effect of the following things that changed combat. Any of the metal changes and smith evolutions. Phalanxes and heavy spears. Saddle stirrups and mounted combat. Coordinated longbows against mounted plate cavalry. Low level training for crossbows against plate armour. The last one is funny as hell for how the church responded to it. Cannon against fortifications. Muskets. Rifled barrels. Repeating firearms. The Lee Enfield is an excellent example of the last. One of the biggest, machineguns. The Battle of the Somme being one to be looked into for the machinegun and the tank. And of course, nuclear bombs. Luckely, the tactics for the last one have just consisted of insults and posturing without any actual battlefield use beyond WW2.
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![low genius low genius](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/dust-avatar-128.png)
low genius
The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance
3
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Posted - 2013.03.17 22:26:00 -
[272] - Quote
heavies aren't over powered, but they are too fast. their turn speed is totally unacceptable. |
![Lance 2ballzStrong Lance 2ballzStrong](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/avatars/avatar_4_male_128.jpg)
Lance 2ballzStrong
SyNergy Gaming
857
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Posted - 2013.03.17 22:36:00 -
[273] - Quote
low genius wrote:heavies aren't over powered, but they are too fast. their turn speed is totally unacceptable.
what makes you think they're too fast? Even on max sensitivity I can't turn around quick enough sometimes.
I heard Mouse + Keyboard affects this in the sense that it increases movement speed. Maybe the heavy you saw was using m+kb. |
![SILENTSAM 69 SILENTSAM 69](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/avatars/avatar_2_male_128.jpg)
SILENTSAM 69
Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION
438
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Posted - 2013.03.17 22:54:00 -
[274] - Quote
I have always said Heavies are not OP. Good to see others catching on. There are pros and cons, just like with other suits. Player skill still does have a big impact in this. |
![Sloth9230 Sloth9230](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/dust-avatar-128.png)
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
486
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Posted - 2013.03.17 23:26:00 -
[275] - Quote
For everyone who says heavies don't need a buff, would you be willing to lose 2 slots and have to pay double what you pay now? If the answer is no, then I'm sure you can see where heavies are coming from. The Proto suit is a whole 2 slots better than the STD suit, compare that with an Assault who gains 3 slots and 1 more equipment slot.
Heavies being "easy mode", which is debatable, early on isn't enough of a justification for them to be gimped at later levels. |
![Rei Shepard Rei Shepard](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/dust-avatar-128.png)
Rei Shepard
Spectre II
91
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Posted - 2013.03.18 10:56:00 -
[276] - Quote
Oxskull Duncarino wrote:Rei Shepard wrote:
Please inform me how this makes you an expert and why current tactics shouldnt work, isn't everyone thats playing not using human tactics?
So basically what you guys are saying, the Heavy needs to be The Better Assault +1 ?
At no point have I said I'm an expert. But having a basic knowledge of epochs in battlefield history would show that use of a tactic that was valid at the time against previous weapons, when used against a newly introduced weapon system or just a basic mechanic, alot of the time resulted in the deaths of those using those tactics. So, using present, 21st century, military weapons doctrine as an example of how weapons from 20,000 years in the future should be dealt with, is massively flawed, as I pointed out. Fair enough, I pointed it out while laughing at you, but it's still valid. If you have an interest in this kind of stuff then you should look into the effect of the following things that changed combat. Any of the metal changes and smith evolutions. Phalanxes and heavy spears. Saddle stirrups and mounted combat. Coordinated longbows against mounted plate cavalry. Low level training for crossbows against plate armour. The last one is funny as hell for how the church responded to it. Cannon against fortifications. Muskets. Rifled barrels. Repeating firearms. The Lee Enfield is an excellent example of the last. One of the biggest, machineguns. The Battle of the Somme being one to be looked into for the machinegun and the tank. And of course, nuclear bombs. Luckely, the tactics for the last one have just consisted of insults and posturing without any actual battlefield use beyond WW2.
What you are pointing out is that they needed to invent stuff to overcome the gap between low tech & their still low tech, new tech.
However the Heavy is still a guy in a suit, albeit heavyly armored while carrying a Minigun (modern age tech), against this type of opponent it is still possible to use tactics from out age and time because it's nothing new or something that hasnt been done before (basic Infantry).
If the heavy could Melt itself into its suroundings, warp around the battlefield and have cloacking projectors i would agree because then youd be fighting a Predator from aliens vs Predators, but at the end of the day its a fat man in a suit of heavy armor, does not require rocket science to adapt to that idea.
Flank it or Take it from behind, lead it on etc are still valid tactics against it, whereas it would be a totally new type of Warmachine we had not seen before, then i would agree with you.
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![Rei Shepard Rei Shepard](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/dust-avatar-128.png)
Rei Shepard
Spectre II
91
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Posted - 2013.03.18 11:22:00 -
[277] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:calisk galern wrote:Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:[quote=Rei Shepard][quote=Oxskull Duncarino]If we were going to use modern military doctrine on heavy weapons then firstly CCP will have to increase HMG range beyond that of the basic assault rifle. Not something I see happening current hardware limits stuff like that, nothing can be done by that. WHAT??? HAHAHAHA Are you saying the PS3 is limiting the range on guns due to its lack of power??? Please tell me I mistook your definition of hardware.
If we had real life bullet trajectories, it would mean the server & client would need to track bullets that can go over 2km range, this needs to be calculated real time (per bullet) and then that data needs to be send to 32 clients per game battle. The further things go on Servers, the more out of Sync they become with their current trajectory vs other clients connected to the same server, hit location boxes don't work properly at 50 meter range, guess how derp its gonna get at 2km...
So now the Servers & PS3 only need to do 12 rounds up to 50-60 meter from an assault rifle per second versus 500-600 meter thats 90% less server power it needs to use per second someone is firing their gun, cutting down the range cuts down on server cpu usage.
Then their is draw distance, its limited to the current ps3 hardware from 7 years ago, if a sniper could go 500-1500m it would hit a brick wall if it had to portray moving targets at that distance, it has issues at current sniper ranges.
And finally i suppose there would be too much QQ from people being nailed at 500m+ outwards.
But the limiting factor is still Server CPU use, cost & PS3's GPU power output, it can't even do 30 FPS stable atm.
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![Vermaak Doe Vermaak Doe](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/avatars/avatar_3_male_128.jpg)
Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
520
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Posted - 2013.03.18 11:38:00 -
[278] - Quote
Being defense oriented doesn't make it support, and Av isn't it's only role |
![Superhero Rawdon Superhero Rawdon](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/avatars/avatar_4_male_128.jpg)
Superhero Rawdon
Better Hide R Die
7
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Posted - 2013.03.26 19:57:00 -
[279] - Quote
Mavado V Noriega wrote:Delirium Inferno wrote:Heavy suits progress disproportionately to all other suits with each tier. 1v1 militia assault vs militia heavy in close quarters the heavy wins more times than not. 1v1 proto assault vs proto heavy it is flipped like you said. Advanced and proto suits need more slots/CPU/PG. THAT. plus vk.1 needs to come down in price
+ 1billion
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![Superhero Rawdon Superhero Rawdon](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/avatars/avatar_4_male_128.jpg)
Superhero Rawdon
Better Hide R Die
7
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Posted - 2013.03.26 20:03:00 -
[280] - Quote
Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:Crimson Moon V wrote:If you don't want to hear what anyone else has to say then change the title of this thread to, "LF other heavies to circle jerk with. Tears for lube inside". ![Big smile](https://forums.dust514.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_smile-big.png) I hear what everyone has to say, but until you're a heavy your opinion, or "advice" on the matter means next to nothing. All you do is troll heavy threads cuz I think somewhere down the line an HMG molested you. You still butthurt?
lulz |
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![Lance 2ballzStrong Lance 2ballzStrong](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/avatars/avatar_4_male_128.jpg)
Lance 2ballzStrong
SyNergy Gaming
990
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Posted - 2013.03.26 20:04:00 -
[281] - Quote
someone brought this thread back?... nice! lol
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![Superhero Rawdon Superhero Rawdon](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/avatars/avatar_4_male_128.jpg)
Superhero Rawdon
Better Hide R Die
7
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Posted - 2013.03.26 20:04:00 -
[282] - Quote
General Tiberius1 wrote:nice to see someone revived this.
im not done yet either....gotta lot of pages to go through ;)
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![Garrett Blacknova Garrett Blacknova](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/avatars/avatar_1_male_128.jpg)
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2152
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Posted - 2013.03.26 20:04:00 -
[283] - Quote
Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:low genius wrote:heavies aren't over powered, but they are too fast. their turn speed is totally unacceptable. what makes you think they're too fast? Even on max sensitivity I can't turn around quick enough sometimes. I heard Mouse + Keyboard affects this in the sense that it increases movement speed. Maybe the heavy you saw was using m+kb. There's an exploitable glitch with some mice (mostly ones with variable DPI settings) being able to circumvent the turn speed cap.
SOME Heavies can turn too fast. But they're not doing to legitimately, and CCP are investigating the problem. |
![Superhero Rawdon Superhero Rawdon](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/avatars/avatar_4_male_128.jpg)
Superhero Rawdon
Better Hide R Die
7
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Posted - 2013.03.26 20:07:00 -
[284] - Quote
Don Von Hulio wrote:Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:Don Von Hulio wrote:Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:Don Von Hulio wrote:Look. There are more B suits than legit proto players. But thats not the point. Heavies die alot more because the majority of everyone now has a decent suit and gun. If a heavy dies in CQ to an AR, they just suck and need to move on to another game...
Most people who play heavy go for body shots and attempt to mow everyone down from sheer bullet count. But now most people have high enough shields and/or armor which buys them enough time to sprint to cover. Not once have i seen anyone who isnt a heavy themselves just face off and sponge the HMG and win.
Heavies are not a joke, but those who complain about them being ineffective are however. When the game first started for open beta, heavies had it easy for too long and it seems people got too used to the no skill pray and spray game play it offered. CCP has left them alone up to now and I see them treating Assault and Logi suits the same way.
Heavies dont need a buff, they just need to drop the isk requirement to use a heavy. lol...another idiot makes an appearance. Run along and play with your little AR. Obviously you're not a heavy. I'm waiting for a known heavy to come in here and tell me that Heavy suits or class in general is fine. Till then, you scrubs thinking otherwise can keep running around with your AR / shotgun thinking that heavies are fine. If you're running Proto Assault suit + Proto AR and you lose, you're a scrub! Sorry, but you should not lose to a B series heavy. The VK1 is just a B series with 1 extra high slot, so yeah, Proto Assault >>>>>> B series Heavy. L2P seriously. I have an alt heavy and i do just fine. And you obviously didn't pay much attention to my post, or you lack the mental capacity to comprehend it. lolHeavyAlt... I can say I have Tank alt, Logi Alt, Scout alt, Dropship alt... but I'll be lying through my ass too. How about playing a corp match with the Heavy class. L2P? Good one. My lolKD is 8.6, and I play every corp match I'm available for. I don't pubstomp, and talk trash like some people do all day. My lolstats take serious hits when I play against good teams. So this whole leet crap about L2P, you can take somewhere else. People that have this outlook that Heavies are tanks, are ******* idiots! It shows just how much they actually play the class, and the fact that you think heavies are great, shows you know NOTHING about the class. Oh please. I have a feeling you made this thread to start a flame war anyways. If they were so under powered I'd run up on them any chance I get with my superior AR that is so op. But no, I keep them at a distance and usually more than one person is shooting them. I think the real issue is hit detection actually.
hit detection is A problem, but not the main one, me thinks
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![Superhero Rawdon Superhero Rawdon](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/avatars/avatar_4_male_128.jpg)
Superhero Rawdon
Better Hide R Die
8
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Posted - 2013.03.26 20:40:00 -
[285] - Quote
im another heavy that has noticed that as u go up in suit tier, the performance doesnt meet up to expectations
this is the first ive heard about how many slots all the other suits have tho, and thats mind boggling
the heavy should OWN in cqc without any lip wutsoever, esp from trolls like crimson moon (who, btw, tucks tails and runs like a little girl when he comes face to face with me. his shield was gone and armor low and he knew, he KNEW he was gonna die......*sigh* but alas, it wasnt meant to b)
as far as range goes....honestly, the HMG loses accuracy at range. 1 in 10 rounds hits the target at say, 40-50 meters (thats a WILD guess) and only 5 or 6 hit in cqc. so i also agree with OP (<3 lance ;) ) that the spread should b tighter.....that in itself would affect the range anyway
turn speed is hideous........being slow moving is enough. we cant strafe for ****, so let us have the improved turn speed.
lower the cost of the proto suits and buff them (and add a few losts to b on par with the other suits in this game) |
![Tech Ohm Eaven Tech Ohm Eaven](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/avatars/avatar_4_male_128.jpg)
Tech Ohm Eaven
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
451
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Posted - 2013.03.26 21:18:00 -
[286] - Quote
Superhero Rawdon wrote:im another heavy that has noticed that as u go up in suit tier, the performance doesnt meet up to expectations
this is the first ive heard about how many slots all the other suits have tho, and thats mind boggling
the heavy should OWN in cqc without any lip wutsoever, esp from trolls like crimson moon (who, btw, tucks tails and runs like a little girl when he comes face to face with me. his shield was gone and armor low and he knew, he KNEW he was gonna die......*sigh* but alas, it wasnt meant to b)
as far as range goes....honestly, the HMG loses accuracy at range. 1 in 10 rounds hits the target at say, 40-50 meters (thats a WILD guess) and only 5 or 6 hit in cqc. so i also agree with OP (<3 lance ;) ) that the spread should b tighter.....that in itself would affect the range anyway
turn speed is hideous........being slow moving is enough. we cant strafe for ****, so let us have the improved turn speed.
lower the cost of the proto suits and buff them (and add a few losts to b on par with the other suits in this game)
Just yesterday I was in my skinweave assault suit and a squadmate says carefull theres a heavy HMG around the corner and I changed to my sidearm and it was dead heavy and I felt sorry for killing the poor heavy.
Yeah theres a few good heavies that do ok but its a handfull and its lolworthy when folks can run four complex damage sidearm mods and kill heavies for lols with an SMG or do the same with an exile/ light weapon mods in CQC.
I think the problem is that the HMG needs more damage in CQC and a bit less range but yeah these days I see the best heavy in the game dying to proto assaults.....so yeah.
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