Friendly Fire

Have you met the goons?

So Friendly Fire is finally coming to Dust. It's not something we should be concerned about.

Note that the exact way it is introduced has not been outlined yet, AFAIK. I hope it will be always on, but it might be on in Corp battles and nullsec only. Any WP/SP/ISK penalties (if any) has not been released, either, and I'd prefer to keep that discussion on another thread.

Here why we should welcome FF:

• Friendly Fire promotes more deliberate gameplay, and discourages spray-and-pray since you can't shoot everything that moves
• You will not get TKd all the time. I only play FF modes in FPSs, and I suffer a non-accidental TK perhaps every ten game sessions, and see them rarely
• Griefing happens. CCP might include Vote-To-Kick, which is in most FPSs. I'm ambivalent; it does help dealing with dicks, although is wide open to abuse by organized squads and corps VTKing people they don't like or if they want to make room for corpmates. VTK also doesn't fit EVE universe.
• Accidents happen to you and your teammates. L2P and HTFU; or better yet, laugh about it. Some of the funniest FPS memories I have are of TKs. Like that one time in TO:AOT I threw a grenade which bounced off a ceiling beam right in the middle of my team following me, killing four of them. I didn't even get votekicked, everyone was laughing so hard - this is on pub. Or that other time a teammate popped their head right in the center of my sights as I squeezed the trigger on my sniper rifle. Pop goes the head. Good times.
• TK is a perfectly valid and necessary tactic for corp spies, infiltrators, and assassins. In fact, it will allow for whole new avenues for gameplay we haven't seen in FPSs if CCP has the balls to introduce such contracts.
• TK is a perfectly valid way to deal with AFKers in some games. Not sure if there's a use for it in Dust since you have unlimited spawns and don't get dropped if you don't spawn since you're AFK.
• And the most important lesson from my EVE days: if you can't afford to lose it, don't use it. It being a dropsuit or gear.

I get the feeling friendly fire will actually help solve the issue of mass driver spamming and grenade spamming.

The grenade spamming is fixed.....what will solve the mass driver spam is a shorten clip, or reload after 2 explosives, or a much slower ROF. Any one of those three will fix it....friendly fire will do nothing to change it. If you're the shooter, you don't care who gets in your way. Because you're not the one doing the dying

The grenade spamming is fixed.....what will solve the mass driver spam is a shorten clip, or reload after 2 explosives, or a much slower ROF. Any one of those three will fix it....friendly fire will do nothing to change it. If you're the shooter, you don't care who gets in your way. Because you're not the one doing the dying

Hello bunny hopping scout mass driver alt.

Hey how you doing man.

Ready to TK and grief with no remorse or risk.

Friendly fire done as thoughtlessly as the OP suggests it might would be a terrible idea. Here's how you do FF:

1) If you damage a friendly, you are fined an ISK/SP penalty based on the amount of damage you do. The penalty grows larger the more damage you do in a short period of time. One stray shot isn't a big deal, but unloading into a friendly would be heavily penalized. Similarly, if the game could track whether the friendly target shot were near an enemy target, and increase the penalty if the friendly was not (so as to differentiate accidents from malicious acts better) that'd be helpful.

1a) The exception to this is that, people in your corp, people in your pre-made squad, they do not cause you to be penalized as all if you shoot them. You can always leave your squad/corp if you started getting maliciously teamkilled by your "friends". So for corp battles, for example, there'd be friendly fire, but there'd never be penalties for it beyond what the corp works out for itself, should one of its members start going rogue.

2) If you kill a friendly, you are fined the cost of their fitting/vehicle on top of other expenses.

3) If any character on any of your accounts kills more than two or three friendlies a game, or deal X amount of damage, you become designated as a teamkiller. That is, you'll show up with a special chevron rather than regular blue or red one -- perhaps a purple chevron to split the difference. The status will persist for 30 minutes, through multiple games. When so designated, anyone in the game, on your team or the other, can kill you without repercussion.

4) If you are designated as a team killer more than X times in Y period of time on any of your accounts, you get banned for 1 day. If after that ban expires you again become designated as a teamkiller, you get banned for 3 days. Then 7, then 15, then 30. After, if you get designated as a teamkiller again, your account is permanently terminated and all your characters are deleted. I assume that the PS3 is able to ban by machine, so that's what it'd end up as.


Without meaningful punishment for TK'ing that prevents alt PSN accounts being used to just go wild with friendly fire teamkilling, FF would be a bad addition to the game, and you'd routinely have to deal with people abusing friendly fire. The only way to make friendly fire work for a free game like this is to put access to the game at jeopardy for people should they abuse the system.

So Friendly Fire is finally coming to Dust. It's not something we should be concerned about.

Note that the exact way it is introduced has not been outlined yet, AFAIK. I hope it will be always on, but it might be on in Corp battles and nullsec only. Any WP/SP/ISK penalties (if any) has not been released, either, and I'd prefer to keep that discussion on another thread.

Here why we should welcome FF:

• Friendly Fire promotes more deliberate gameplay, and discourages spray-and-pray since you can't shoot everything that moves
• You will not get TKd all the time. I only play FF modes in FPSs, and I suffer a non-accidental TK perhaps every ten game sessions, and see them rarely
• Griefing happens. CCP might include Vote-To-Kick, which is in most FPSs. I'm ambivalent; it does help dealing with dicks, although is wide open to abuse by organized squads and corps VTKing people they don't like or if they want to make room for corpmates. VTK also doesn't fit EVE universe.
• Accidents happen to you and your teammates. L2P and HTFU; or better yet, laugh about it. Some of the funniest FPS memories I have are of TKs. Like that one time in TO:AOT I threw a grenade which bounced off a ceiling beam right in the middle of my team following me, killing four of them. I didn't even get votekicked, everyone was laughing so hard - this is on pub. Or that other time a teammate popped their head right in the center of my sights as I squeezed the trigger on my sniper rifle. Pop goes the head. Good times.
• TK is a perfectly valid and necessary tactic for corp spies, infiltrators, and assassins. In fact, it will allow for whole new avenues for gameplay we haven't seen in FPSs if CCP has the balls to introduce such contracts.
• TK is a perfectly valid way to deal with AFKers in some games. Not sure if there's a use for it in Dust since you have unlimited spawns and don't get dropped if you don't spawn since you're AFK.
• And the most important lesson from my EVE days: if you can't afford to lose it, don't use it. It being a dropsuit or gear.

Friendly fire done as thoughtlessly as the OP suggests it might would be a terrible idea. Here's how you do FF:

1) If you damage a friendly, you are fined an ISK/SP penalty based on the amount of damage you do. The penalty grows larger the more damage you do in a short period of time. One stray shot isn't a big deal, but unloading into a friendly would be heavily penalized. Similarly, if the game could track whether the friendly target shot were near an enemy target, and increase the penalty if the friendly was not (so as to differentiate accidents from malicious acts better) that'd be helpful.

1a) The exception to this is that, people in your corp, people in your pre-made squad, they do not cause you to be penalized as all if you shoot them. You can always leave your squad/corp if you started getting maliciously teamkilled by your "friends". So for corp battles, for example, there'd be friendly fire, but there'd never be penalties for it beyond what the corp works out for itself, should one of its members start going rogue.

2) If you kill a friendly, you are fined the cost of their fitting/vehicle on top of other expenses.

3) If any character on any of your accounts kills more than two or three friendlies a game, or deal X amount of damage, you become designated as a teamkiller. That is, you'll show up with a special chevron rather than regular blue or red one -- perhaps a purple chevron to split the difference. The status will persist for 30 minutes, through multiple games. When so designated, anyone in the game, on your team or the other, can kill you without repercussion.

4) If you are designated as a team killer more than X times in Y period of time on any of your accounts, you get banned for 1 day. If after that ban expires you again become designated as a teamkiller, you get banned for 3 days. Then 7, then 15, then 30. After, if you get designated as a teamkiller again, your account is permanently terminated and all your characters are deleted. I assume that the PS3 is able to ban by machine, so that's what it'd end up as.


Without meaningful punishment for TK'ing that prevents alt PSN accounts being used to just go wild with friendly fire teamkilling, FF would be a bad addition to the game, and you'd routinely have to deal with people abusing friendly fire. The only way to make friendly fire work for a free game like this is to put access to the game at jeopardy for people should they abuse the system.

#4 Sounds ridiculous for New Eden but I like the other suggestions.

Friendly fire done as thoughtlessly as the OP suggests it might would be a terrible idea. Here's how you do FF:

1) If you damage a friendly, you are fined an ISK/SP penalty based on the amount of damage you do. The penalty grows larger the more damage you do in a short period of time. One stray shot isn't a big deal, but unloading into a friendly would be heavily penalized. Similarly, if the game could track whether the friendly target shot were near an enemy target, and increase the penalty if the friendly was not (so as to differentiate accidents from malicious acts better) that'd be helpful.

1a) The exception to this is that, people in your corp, people in your pre-made squad, they do not cause you to be penalized as all if you shoot them. You can always leave your squad/corp if you started getting maliciously teamkilled by your "friends". So for corp battles, for example, there'd be friendly fire, but there'd never be penalties for it beyond what the corp works out for itself, should one of its members start going rogue.

2) If you kill a friendly, you are fined the cost of their fitting/vehicle on top of other expenses.

3) If any character on any of your accounts kills more than two or three friendlies a game, or deal X amount of damage, you become designated as a teamkiller. That is, you'll show up with a special chevron rather than regular blue or red one -- perhaps a purple chevron to split the difference. The status will persist for 30 minutes, through multiple games. When so designated, anyone in the game, on your team or the other, can kill you without repercussion.

4) If you are designated as a team killer more than X times in Y period of time on any of your accounts, you get banned for 1 day. If after that ban expires you again become designated as a teamkiller, you get banned for 3 days. Then 7, then 15, then 30. After, if you get designated as a teamkiller again, your account is permanently terminated and all your characters are deleted. I assume that the PS3 is able to ban by machine, so that's what it'd end up as.


Without meaningful punishment for TK'ing that prevents alt PSN accounts being used to just go wild with friendly fire teamkilling, FF would be a bad addition to the game, and you'd routinely have to deal with people abusing friendly fire. The only way to make friendly fire work for a free game like this is to put access to the game at jeopardy for people should they abuse the system.

I'm usually not but I am going to be hostile as this thread demands it......

But this is the dumbest thing to hit the game since the daily cap.

1. "discourages spray-and-pray"?? You know what discourages spray and pray?.....An enemy that can shoot!! This is by far the most ridiculous reason to implement TKing. Do you think that someone who's spraying and praying cares who they are killing? They are spraying for a reason...think about it.

2. "VTK"? Really?? Smart trollers will only TK bluedots or better yet...leave the squad and create their own so they can't be VTKed. Not to mention....one intentional TK is one too many. I don't want to lose one proto suit to a dik that's just out for kicks.

3. If some of your best moments are TKing, then you are the sort of player that makes TKing intolerable. I don't understand why anyone would include friendly fire to increase gameplay satisfaction. I mean, what kind of player needs that? CCP can do better by increasing gameplay movements and faster gameplay feel.

4. TKing is silly for infiltrators...because once you TK once, you are immediately getting kicked out of the corp.

5. And the dumbest reason of 'em all....."if you can't afford to lose it...." WTMF! I can have 500 proto suits and can afford to lose 400 of them but why would I want to LOSE ONE by an intentional teamkill??? I can be solo in a match with randoms and don proto gear to help get the win. To get trolled and intentionally shot in my proto suit is not cool and not something CCP should be implementing.

Friendly fire, again, is the dumbest idea to hit since the daily cap[/i][/b]

They do need to think about HOW FF is introduced, and I don't think it has a place (at least not in full function) in pub matches.

I've previously suggested that pub matches should only apply FF to splash damage, and possibly even at a reduced rate. Corp matches should have full FF on though. In situations where the battle MEANS something, there should be the added element of risk. Also, it lets the new players have a more familiar place to learn the ropes before jumping into "oops, I killed you" territory.

I also think that any repercussions should be limited to the specific battle in pub matches, and managed by the corp in corp battles.

A while back someone suggested that in hisec pub matches, weapons would not fire if a friendly would be hit. I really like this idea, though there was quite a bit of resistance from the "FF everywhere" crowd.

For splash damage, I think grenades, MD rounds, missiles, etc. should simply not detonate if there is a friendly within the blast radius.

This would teach players in these matches a more disciplined approach than indiscriminate spray-and-pray, or throwing grenades into mixed red+blue groups, while avoiding TKing.

friendly fire solve nothing and make only more problems

and to all sweet guys which like friendly fire ----wait till someone kill you and steal your 4 mill tank

in corp battle ok ,but otherwise no


we have enouth problems to solve ingame and not need new problems

So Friendly Fire is finally coming to Dust. It's not something we should be concerned about.

Note that the exact way it is introduced has not been outlined yet, AFAIK. I hope it will be always on, but it might be on in Corp battles and nullsec only. Any WP/SP/ISK penalties (if any) has not been released, either, and I'd prefer to keep that discussion on another thread.

Here why we should welcome FF:

• Friendly Fire promotes more deliberate gameplay, and discourages spray-and-pray since you can't shoot everything that moves
• You will not get TKd all the time. I only play FF modes in FPSs, and I suffer a non-accidental TK perhaps every ten game sessions, and see them rarely
• Griefing happens. CCP might include Vote-To-Kick, which is in most FPSs. I'm ambivalent; it does help dealing with dicks, although is wide open to abuse by organized squads and corps VTKing people they don't like or if they want to make room for corpmates. VTK also doesn't fit EVE universe.
• Accidents happen to you and your teammates. L2P and HTFU; or better yet, laugh about it. Some of the funniest FPS memories I have are of TKs. Like that one time in TO:AOT I threw a grenade which bounced off a ceiling beam right in the middle of my team following me, killing four of them. I didn't even get votekicked, everyone was laughing so hard - this is on pub. Or that other time a teammate popped their head right in the center of my sights as I squeezed the trigger on my sniper rifle. Pop goes the head. Good times.
• TK is a perfectly valid and necessary tactic for corp spies, infiltrators, and assassins. In fact, it will allow for whole new avenues for gameplay we haven't seen in FPSs if CCP has the balls to introduce such contracts.
• TK is a perfectly valid way to deal with AFKers in some games. Not sure if there's a use for it in Dust since you have unlimited spawns and don't get dropped if you don't spawn since you're AFK.
• FF belongs in the ruthless EVE universe where every action has lasting repercussions. This is not your carebear FPS where death has no impact. [late addition to the list]
• And the most important lesson from my EVE days: if you can't afford to lose it, don't use it. It being a dropsuit or gear.

Put in a penalty for 100k ISK to the party you killed. If you run out of money you get ejected from the match.


As far as accidents, or suicides by running into your fire- well, check your background and exercise trigger control.

[quote=Road Hawk]friendly fire solve nothing and make only more problems



I don't see any problems. I've stolen blueberry tanks, and had them stolen as well. Don't use it if you can't afford to lose it.

FF would slow down all of the lone wolf spray and pray COD kiddos who run around like tards and screw up the matches for everyone actually playing the squad based shooter that Dust is designed to be.

Banning for multiple team kills? No. That's not the New Eden experience. Go play another game.

Will there be griefing? Yes. It's inevitable. Happens in most games, but with FF there will be a recourse to retaliate.

Dust is not EvE. In EvE teamkilling gets expensive. Lets say you have 5 HACs in your fleet and then a teamkiller joins you. That's fine... think he can take you all? Hell no. Particularly not in his militia gear / Ibis. If he has a command ship he might take one of you down... but not all... and it'll be expensive. In DUST, I could wipe out my entire team in a random battle before anyone could do anything about it. It's not the same thing at all. Friendly fire is fine in a public match if two features are present: The ability to boot someone on your team who kills you from the match, AND the ability to block them from joining you in future public matches. If CCP doesn't do both of those things, I will personally guarantee you I will teamkill the hell out of this game until they change their minds. ...because if I can't have fun I'll see to it no one can There will be no HTFU. There will be only me destroying spawn points and when they are all gone camping my own MCV. You'll be dead before you hit the ground.

And the griefer with a full BPO suit will dance and laugh as you chase him around the map for killing your proto suit or stealing your Sagaris only to run it into the red zone.

It's attention and tears that they crave and your attempts at retaliation will just fuel their desires.

I see you using the ever popular 1 v 1 concept for your argument. Players, who actually play as a team, will figure out rather quickly, by watching battle feeds and through direct experience, who a TKer is in their current match and will declare them as a target to their squad, if not their whole team. Then the TKer will have blues and reds hunting them.

TKing will have much higher risks than many believe. All these calls for penalties just shows me that many people lack critical thinking. When FF goes live and you get intentionally TKed, how about you just remember who it is so you can gank them whenever you see them or even, *gasp* dare I suggest it, offer a reward for confirmed TK kills against the person who Intentionally TKed you to a state of QQ.

NotEmptySelf-quoteing

and thus the lynch mob formed...

Exactly.

I see you using the ever popular 1 v 1 concept for your argument. Players, who actually play as a team, will figure out rather quickly, by watching battle feeds and through direct experience, who a TKer is in their current match and will declare them as a target to their squad, if not their whole team. Then the TKer will have blues and reds hunting them.

TKing will have much higher risks than many believe. All these calls for penalties just shows me that many people lack critical thinking. When FF goes live and you get intentionally TKed, how about you just remember who it is so you can gank them whenever you see them or even, *gasp* dare I suggest it, offer a reward for confirmed TK kills against the person who Intentionally TKed you to a state of QQ.

And this is exactly what people will do. They'll go play another game, and Dust will fail because it will be rife with TK'ers whom nobody wants deal with, and then it'll just be you and a handful of other people murdering each other in the MCC spawn, gloating about how hardcore you are for enduring the "New Eden experience".

If CCP's goal is to make a game that people want to play, they should ignore the kind of sentiment you've expressed. It's possible to have a more unforgiving sort of game that does have friendly fire, without crippling the game through not doing anything to stop people from maliciously teamkilling to their heart's content. There is a middle-ground between the thoughtless elitism you've expressed, and the rather shallow life of no FF at all.

Just to be clear though, it'd be banning for numerous obviously malicious instances of team killing. What I've suggested is a blatant copy of the friendly fire system used by the free-to-play game World of Tanks, and it works perfectly in that game. It's the only way to prevent teamkilling from ruining the game. Without eventual machine bans, people will TK on alts, TK on alt PSN accounts, and otherwise simply circumvent the typical penalties. There needs to be something that actually matters at risk, otherwise many people will continuously TK, and the system will be a huge detriment to the game, rather than a valuable addition.

And just who do you expect to chase after the griefer with you when nobody is on team chat?
How do you expect to form a lynch mob?
How many players stare at the kill feed instead of the radar map or the scene in front of them?

If the griefer targets a small number of mercs in any given match they will only have to worry about those few.
They won't care about being killed, that's just a delicious form of attention to them and costs them next to nothing in ISK.

The griefer will just run round playing tag with your squad and delight in distracting you from the match.

Bounties would be a new trophy for a griefer. "Hey, I pissed this guy off so much he put out a contract on me!"

And then he goes and creates another alt to continue his fun.

You have to realize that you can't win. The griefer just gets you to play his game where he wins either way.

Dust is the ground side of Eve and Eve is the space side of Dust. Not the same environment but, to me, it's the same game as each side can affect the other.

I have no problem with being able to kick someone from your squad, before or after battle, that's what preforming squads is for. It is, however, unrealistic to expect to be able to block them from joining the team your squad is on if there's an available slot. If you're so worried about getting TK griefed with no recourse to retaliate or defend, them maybe you shouldn't take anything more advanced than the free suits out in pub matches if FF is implemented for them. Be part of the solution, not part of the problem.

Dust will not fail due to FF; don't be ridiculous. There are plenty of FPSs out there which have FF mode or are completely FF, some of them AAA. And you never ever hear anyone quitting due to FF.

Granted, in Dust there is more to lose from TK. But as his been pointed out in the OP and other posts and threads, there are many ways to fix it with in-game mechanics, or coordination.

I ran my PS3 as a dedicated Warhawk server many time and I always ran it with FF on. Didn't get many players. Just proved to me that a lot of PvP FPS players lack the intestinal fortitude to go all the way. I'm seeing a lot of that here.

Saying FF in pub matches will kill Dust is the same, in my opinion, as all those people that said it would kill Eve.

You're right, it won't, but that's because CCP knows better.

Other FPS games with FF have significant differences. Servers you can be kicked/banned from by the host, optional non-FF servers you can play on instead, and in particular, you don't actually lose anything in those games when you die, other than your time. The game I compared Dust to -- World of Tanks -- is the best comparison there is. Both games make a big deal out of making and losing money, both games are free to play with a single server (although WoT has a single server per region instead). You can't compare a game like Battlefield 3 to something like Dust. Someone starts TK'ing in BF3, you shrug your shoulders, maybe say a swear or two, and either try to ignore it or move to a different server. In Dust, you can't help but play on a FF server if they were to make FF for Instant Battle games. And each death is, potentially, the loss of ISK.

The solutions I've seen, the ones that act as if rampant TK'ing isn't a problem, and have some pithy comment about how "New Eden" works -- as if that's at all relevant or even accurate -- aren't sensible solutions. Either CCP makes teamkilling heavily penalized, or it keeps FF off of Instant Battles, or it accepts that its game will be far less popular than it would if it had no FF on Instant Battle servers, and indulges the inner child of people who go about that TK'ing business. Unless the penalties are such that making an alt PSN account and TK'ing with throw-away characters would substantially endanger your main PSN account with your real Dust characters, FF' for Instant Battles would ruin the game.

You're right, it won't, but that's because CCP knows better.

Other FPS games with FF have significant differences. Servers you can be kicked/banned from by the host, optional non-FF servers you can play on instead, and in particular, you don't actually lose anything in those games when you die, other than your time. The game I compared Dust to -- World of Tanks -- is the best comparison there is. Both games make a big deal out of making and losing money, both games are free to play with a single server (although WoT has a single server per region instead). You can't compare a game like Battlefield 3 to something like Dust. Someone starts TK'ing in BF3, you shrug your shoulders, maybe say a swear or two, and either try to ignore it or move to a different server. In Dust, you can't help but play on a FF server if they were to make FF for Instant Battle games. And each death is, potentially, the loss of ISK.

The solutions I've seen, the ones that act as if rampant TK'ing isn't a problem, and have some pithy comment about how "New Eden" works -- as if that's at all relevant or even accurate -- aren't sensible solutions. Either CCP makes teamkilling heavily penalized, or it keeps FF off of Instant Battles, or it accepts that its game will be far less popular than it would if it had no FF on Instant Battle servers, and indulges the inner child of people who go about that TK'ing business. Unless the penalties are such that making an alt PSN account and TK'ing with throw-away characters would substantially endanger your main PSN account with your real Dust characters, FF' for Instant Battles would ruin the game.



It has nothing to do with fortitude. The only people who enjoy being killed by people on their own team is... well, nobody. Some people may like to do it, but nobody likes being randomly shot in the back by a supposed ally. So yeah, amazing as it must be, most people prefer to play the game, rather than be randomly killed by people they have no way of identifying.

And the EVE comparison is fairly ignorant of how EVE actually works. Most EVE players play in Empire space. It's safe there, unless you're flying something compelling enough to attract a suicide gank squad, and unless you're in a corp that goes to war or recruits new players only to PK them. For the majority of EVE players, they've probably never been killed by another player outside of a wardec. Now, that might change a bit with bounties, but in any case, it's not like new players spawn in nullsec with their pants around their ankles. The idea that EVE is this brutally hostile and totally crazy charnel house of players killing players is mistaken. Anyone who wants to avoid dying to other players in EVE can easily do so, while still playing the game and having fun.

Look... I want to win the match. I don't have time for 10 y/o TKers. You want to shoot at your own teammates you do it with your corp. ...so merc battles and corp battles fine whatever. In a public game I'm just sitting in for some casual killing. I still want to win. If somebody kills me on my own team I should be able to boot them from the match. If we have a field marshal up in the MCV that should simply be a matter of not letting them spawn in a new clone when they die. That's control you should have in a match. Don't tell me what I "should" or "shouldn't" do. I don't give a snip. If there's an exploitable problem one of two things can happen: CCP can recognize the problem and work on fixing it, or they can say "working as intended" and do nothing. What' I'm saying is pub matches are going to be no fun at all if TKers can just kill blues at will without repercussions. If all is as intended, wtf do I care? I can just create an alt and become part of the problem... and in so doing I'll actually be part of the solution, because once all the new people trying DUST start getting killed over and over again by their own guys, they won't want to play anymore. That's a problem for CCP. This whole conversation is stupid imho. If they allow blue on blue in public matches everyone will lose. One way or another. CCP MUST see that.

You know... the more I think about it the more I think I'm wasting keystrokes. There's no way CCP will allow allow TKing w/o consequence in public matches. They'd torp their own game before it even launched.

Either you didn't read what I wrote, or you just wrote two long paragaphs agreeing with my arguments.

One of the main points and the original reason I wrote the OP was the notion that people will start TKing players left and right. This is a ridiculous proposition. It will happen, but there's no way it will become an epidemic due to numerous reasons I and others have listed in previous posts.

A small note: you can switch to another server in Dust. Server defined as understood in FPS games.

I know all too well how Eve works. I've had three years experience in Eve and spent a significant amount of that time living in wormhole space. No-one is safe in Eve even if you're the nicest carebear in the galaxy, someone will likely get around to ganking you sooner or later. No, Eve isn't always a brutal carnage filled game but it isn't safe. FF isn't going to be the epidemic many think it will be even if it did come to pub matches.

I read what you wrote and I told you why you're wrong. If two paragraphs is too long for you then feel free to not respond to things I write in the future. Sometimes I say things with more than a few words. Welp.

People will TK left-and-right because Dust isn't like any random FPS you've ever played. Even in those games, people absolutely do TK maliciously fairly often. In Dust, however, it will be far worse, because people will know that they're causing real harm to a person's character by costing them money when they die. TK'ing members of rival corps would be pretty much SOP for many groups out there as well. You really have no idea how bad TK'ing will be if CCP were to take your hands-off approach.

If they add friendly fire to Instant Battle games, then no, you can't move to a new server. You can quit your game, but your next game would invariably include FF as well. My point, which I thought I made fairly clear, was that in other FPS games where it's a bunch of separate servers with different configurations, players are free to choose the ruleset that suits them best. People wouldn't have that choice with Dust (as nobody would ever voluntarily play on a FF server if they could help it, aside from people looking to play what's essentially a free-for-all).

I read what you wrote and I told you why you're wrong. If two paragraphs is too long for you then feel free to not respond to things I write in the future. Sometimes I say things with more than a few words. Welp.

People will TK left-and-right because Dust isn't like any random FPS you've ever played. Even in those games, people absolutely do TK maliciously fairly often. Many of those servers with FF enabled require admins to kick/ban people for TK'ing. In Dust, however, it will be far worse, because people will know that they're causing real harm to a person's character by costing them money when they die. TK'ing members of rival corps would be pretty much SOP for many groups out there as well. You really have no idea how bad TK'ing will be if CCP were to take your hands-off approach.

If they add friendly fire to Instant Battle games, then no, you can't move to a new server. You can quit your game, but your next game would invariably include FF as well. My point, which I thought I made fairly clear, was that in other FPS games where it's a bunch of separate servers with different configurations, players are free to choose the ruleset that suits them best. People wouldn't have that choice with Dust (as nobody would ever voluntarily play on a FF server if they could help it, aside from people looking to play what's essentially a free-for-all).



Your odds of being killed as a new player by enemy players is basically zero unless you wander off into nullsec or something. People aren't going to get popped by CONCORD over someone in a T1 frigate. And as that new player gets to understand the world, he'll know about the various tricks that people use to get players to make themselves attackable, or the kinds of ships people would gank, or to avoid warring corps if they don't want to fight other players. EVE is pretty safe unless you do things that make you a target.

And that's why FF in Instant Battles isn't the same, as a person playing Dust for the first time ever would conceivably be maliciously TK'd in their first game, if CCP did what you people want and didn't penalize TK'ing at all essentially. Someone getting killed repeatedly by their own team before they even have any idea what's going on would lead to a pretty quick deletion of the game, as the disgruntled newbie moves on to greener pastures.

I read both your posts in entirety. You yet again just keep rehashing your argument, and don't bring any new insight into the discussion. I've already responded to all your items in my previous posts and I'm not going to repeat them, and others have also addressed your concerns.

People don't TK maliciously "fairly often" in other games; it's rather rare as I pointed out in another post (yet another one of these).

By moving to a new server I meant you can change to another game to leave the TKer behind. Duh. Other solutions have been posted in the thread. Even suggesting that FF would make the game FFA outs you as a clueless knee-jerk CoD gamer who doesn't know FF FPSs at all. In best case it is FUD, and we have too much of that with all the nerf discussions going on already.

I'm done with you. Have a nice day, good sir.

You obviously haven't hung around with some of the people I have in Eve if you think it doesn't happen. And if someone is coming in that's going to rage quit and delete after a bad battle or two, it won't make a difference if there's TK or not. Just think of all those players that did it when they found out they couldn't max out their characters in about a month, there were no titles, and no achievements, just to name a few.

But, like I said, carebears will have their high sec plus zone in pub battles as it looks highly unlikely that friendly fire will be turned on in pub matches.

You still state that if things don't go your way then you'll become part of the problem. The "They're doing it so I will too." syndrome. If that's really the way you think I can only hope a lot of people you know don't start jumping off bridges. And besides, yes, this is probably a waste of keystrokes because it doesn't look like CCP is going to implement FF in pub matches anyway. If they do I will be pleasantly surprised.

Your idea of a field marshal with the power to kick someone from a match is a really bad idea. That's one that will get exploited a lot. You'll get elitist FMs that'll kick people for many invalid reasons.

I can just see it...

You took my kill! *kick*
You don't have a mic! *kick*
I don't like your name! *kick*
I don't know you! *kick*
You killed me in a match three months ago! *kick*
That's my hack! *kick*
You died too many times! *kick*
I don't like your voice! *kick*
You're a girl! *kick*
I don't like your corp! *kick*
You're not part of my corp! *kick*

I've heard all that and more in games where a field commander had the power to remove someone from the field of play. You think the occasional TK is bad, That's worse. At least with TKers you have the option to retaliate, you could do nothing about a "field marshal".

The field marshal arbitrarily making that decision isn't what I had in mind (i brought that up as more of a lore/explanation angle). I'm not talking about re-inventing the wheel. On your second or third friendly kill the teammate you killed just gets a little "boot traitor? Y/N" option while re-spawning. That's all. ...and again, public matches are all that would really concern me... but having that as an option in any match should be a given.

Tell me how often people TK using numbers rather than words. Oh, that's right, you have no idea how often the TK beyond your own limited experience. So much for that.

I know what you meant when you said moving to a new server. And I specifically said that you can't move to a server that doesn't have FF, so unlike other FPS games, you can't avoid FF if you'd rather not deal with TK'ers that day.

I've never played CoD, but good guess. I suppose you using "CoD gamer" as an epithet for someone who disagrees with you outs you as something as well.

You should sit and think about what unrestricted TK'ing would mean for people who have personal or corp rivalries as well. Even if malicious TK'ing weren't something you'd get every game (and you would), corps which don't like each other and people who don't like each other would shoot each other in the back constantly. The game would be pretty unplayable if you ever had two squads from rival corps on the same team, as they'd start a TK'ing war that wouldn't finish until their team lost.



Unless you're mining in an exhumer or flying around a freighter, you are very unlikely to be killed, as you won't be worth anything. Try to remember that the point I'm making isn't that you will never ever die as a highsec non-warring player in EVE, just that it's highly unlikely, and compared to how rampant TK'ing would be in Dust should CCP be stupid enough to do what that Arramshdjadhsa person suggested. Dust would be far, far more unforgiving to new players if it had unfettered TK'ing.

There should be an auto kick so if some guy/gal goes on a rampage and kills 5 friendlies he/she should get the boot.

I know from experience that there are people who will run through high sec in cheap high damage ships blatting frigs and low end cruisers just for kill mails. I'm just saying that it happens more than you seem to be implying.

And I'm saying it happens far less than you'd get TK'd in Dust. The whole point is to smash to bits this false equivalency you've drawn between EVE and Dust with penalty-less FF turned on all the time. Dust would be far less forgiving to new players with FF on than EVE is to new players who may, very rarely, get killed flying in something like a newbie ship. That's my point. You aren't making Dust just like EVE by adding unrestricted FF on, you're making it far worse. Amahsjdhasd has zero clue what he's talking about.

TKing will happen, that's a given. Can't be helped. But the solution needs to come from the community in game, not through some unnecessary game mechanic that will penalize good players for the suicidal actions of idiots or suicide griefers as well as actual intentional TKers.

You get VTK/Auto Kick/Field Marshalled, a few times you'll end up on the other end of this conversation talking about how broken the mechanic is or how it was a bad idea to begin with because you got booted out for no good reason.

So Friendly Fire is finally coming to Dust. It's not something we should be concerned about.

Note that the exact way it is introduced has not been outlined yet, AFAIK. I hope it will be always on, but it might be on in Corp battles and nullsec only. Any WP/SP/ISK penalties (if any) has not been released, either, and I'd prefer to keep that discussion on another thread.

Here why we should welcome FF:

• Friendly Fire promotes more deliberate gameplay, and discourages spray-and-pray since you can't shoot everything that moves
• You will not get TKd all the time. I only play FF modes in FPSs, and I suffer a non-accidental TK perhaps every ten game sessions, and see them rarely
• Griefing happens. CCP might include Vote-To-Kick, which is in most FPSs. I'm ambivalent; it does help dealing with dicks, although is wide open to abuse by organized squads and corps VTKing people they don't like or if they want to make room for corpmates. VTK also doesn't fit EVE universe.
• Accidents happen to you and your teammates. L2P and HTFU; or better yet, laugh about it. Some of the funniest FPS memories I have are of TKs. Like that one time in TO:AOT I threw a grenade which bounced off a ceiling beam right in the middle of my team following me, killing four of them. I didn't even get votekicked, everyone was laughing so hard - this is on pub. Or that other time a teammate popped their head right in the center of my sights as I squeezed the trigger on my sniper rifle. Pop goes the head. Good times.
• TK is a perfectly valid and necessary tactic for corp spies, infiltrators, and assassins. In fact, it will allow for whole new avenues for gameplay we haven't seen in FPSs if CCP has the balls to introduce such contracts.
• TK is a perfectly valid way to deal with AFKers in some games. Not sure if there's a use for it in Dust since you have unlimited spawns and don't get dropped if you don't spawn since you're AFK.
• FF belongs in the ruthless EVE universe where every action has lasting repercussions. This is not your carebear FPS where death has no impact. [late addition to the list]
• And the most important lesson from my EVE days: if you can't afford to lose it, don't use it. It being a dropsuit or gear.

So someone gets kicked and they just queue up again, pull their militia stuff, and continue to TK. Or the team they're on, for whatever reason, doesn't kick them and they keep TK'ing there. In either case, the problem of malicious TK'ing is not solved. As for VTK being the "solution from the community", how many VTK's will snipers end up having directed at them out of spite? How many new players with a bad KDR will get booted? This system will be abused. We know it'll be abused, because it's abused every day on FPS servers which allow VTK.

In other words, your "solution" will actually not deter TK'ing whatsoever, will not punish TK'ing when it happens, and will in fact lead to even bigger problems, as now people can maliciously boot others from matches if they don't want to bother with repeatedly TK'ing them.

Just so we're clear on this, CCP is trying to make a game that people who don't necessarily have an antisocial personality disorder. Normal people are supposed to like to play this game. CCP is going to make its money back by getting people to really like Dust, such that they buy AUR and stuff. So maybe some solutions to the problem of FF other than what you and Amahadshj would be sensible.

And, to reiterate, there is already a game which is F2P, which is very similar to Dust in having earning money/experience for matches being a central part of the experience, which has FF. And the FF system they have is coupled with an intelligent and effective way for friendly damage and TK'ing to be automatically and appropriately punished. CCP doesn't need to look any further than World of Tanks to see a game with always-on FF, with zero cost for people to make an account and play, and which does not have any significant problem with TK'ers as a result.

Your fantasy about the solution coming from within the community, and involving a flawed voting system, are totally unneeded, even if they were sensible answers in the first place.

Let me tell you why there shouldn't be FF


If you wipe the floor with someone one game, he's on your team next game, how fun do you think he/she would think it to be to kill your proto suit as many times as he could while on your team?

For MD and LR users, you will be punished for your team running in front of you or getting in blast radius.

For tank drivers, please this is ridiculous.

For DS gunners, the missiles spitting out wherever they feel, ya that's fair.

Random grenades before a team mate dies kills your 200k suit, because he wants revenge and you happen to be taking that revenge for him.

AV grenades, will they seek friendly vehicles?

When your CRU is camped, there will be many casualties.

Teamwork will consist of staying away from each other for no accidents.

I could go on but eeeeh.

And, to reiterate, there is already a game which is F2P, which is very similar to Dust in having earning money/experience for matches being a central part of the experience, which has FF. And the FF system they have is coupled with an intelligent and effective way for friendly damage and TK'ing to be automatically and appropriately punished. CCP doesn't need to look any further than World of Tanks to see a game with always-on FF, with zero cost for people to make an account and play, and which does not have any significant problem with TK'ers as a result.

Your fantasy about the solution coming from within the community, and involving a flawed voting system, are totally unneeded, even if they were sensible answers in the first place.

Ive played BF2 and other mmos FPS before and team killing was one reason i left these games Along with Bots etc,If FF is introduced they will have to address these issues carefully,In my experiance it will get exploted.Alot of players will not like it when there own team kills them on purpose and they lose 100k+ worth of gear especially if its done repeatedly...I cant see a player hanging around to have that happen constantly over and over for revenge or for just being a jackass..

Let me tell you why there shouldn't be FF

If you wipe the floor with someone one game, he's on your team next game, how fun do you think he/she would think it to be to kill your proto suit as many times as he could while on your team?

For MD and LR users, you will be punished for your team running in front of you or getting in blast radius.

For tank drivers, please this is ridiculous.

Random grenades before a team mate dies kills your 200k suit, because he wants revenge and you happen to be taking that revenge for him.

AV grenades, will they seek friendly vehicles?

When your CRU is camped, there will be many casualties.

Teamwork will consist of staying away from each other for no accidents.

WoT's system is fine for that style of game. I've played WoT. But there's going to be more at stake in New Eden than the immediate match. It's called persistence. Something that WoT has only when it comes to tanks and crews one has in one's available inventory Nothing in WoT carries any real potential weight. When considering the direction Dust is intended to go, and where CCP is inexorably taking Dust because it's their game, we need open friendly fire. If one can't find a way to deal with FF in game without some game breaking mechanic, then one isn't going to be able to deal with New Eden when the main elements of the ground aspect are brought in.

Planetside 2 is much closer to Dust, has Friendly Fire, and doesn't use VTK. Your weapon gets locked after enough FF damage/kills AFAIK.

Let me tell you why there shouldn't be FF


If you wipe the floor with someone one game, he's on your team next game, how fun do you think he/she would think it to be to kill your proto suit as many times as he could while on your team?

For MD and LR users, you will be punished for your team running in front of you or getting in blast radius.

For tank drivers, please this is ridiculous.

For DS gunners, the missiles spitting out wherever they feel, ya that's fair.

Random grenades before a team mate dies kills your 200k suit, because he wants revenge and you happen to be taking that revenge for him.

AV grenades, will they seek friendly vehicles?

When your CRU is camped, there will be many casualties.

Teamwork will consist of staying away from each other for no accidents.

I could go on but eeeeh.

But, for the nth time, the gameplay reasons suffice. I just thought I'd mention that FF which didn't have automatic, serious sanctions would be pretty silly from a "lore" or "fluff" perspective, or whatever you call it. If the FF penalties involved reducing, then removing your ISK payout, then booting from a match (contract termination), then account suspension (temporary merc license revocation) and then permanent suspension (merc license termination) after too many account suspensions, it'd be WoT's very effective anti-TK system, and also totally plausible within the context of New Eden.

There is nothing at stake in Dust. The idea that it's relevant to EVE is simply an idea that will, a year or more from now, become a reality. For now, WoT has by far more at stake than Dust. Not only are tanks really expensive to buy and equip and maintain (such that people consider WoT a "grindy" game) but the Clan Wars aspect, where you fight for territory, awards you an AUR-equivalent very helpfully called "gold". That's more than you can say for Dust. So let's not pretend Dust is some special snowflake here.

And more importantly, the majority of Dust players will never go beyond Instant Battle. They'll never do corp wars, never do nullsec stuff. They'll just play Dust like any ol' FPS game. And Dust needs to be fun for those people, too. Sacrificing the fun of those casual folks, simply because of some nonsense about how "New Eden" is "supposed to be", as if that's more important than making a fun game, isn't a winning strategy. It's possible for CCP to add FF, and to make FF a good addition rather than a detriment. WoT has done it. Amarhadhsdb and his ideas won't do it. Your opinion that the community will magically find a solution (just like it finds a solution for tanks that start dominating their team, right?) is a work of fiction.

There are real solutions out there that allow FF but don't make Dust into a cesspool of TK'ing. Rejecting those solutions based on your misguided ideas about how EVE works doesn't cut it.

You don't lose money when you die in Planetside 2. You do lose money in Dust and World of Tanks. That's what makes WoT a better example than Planetside 2. Death is a very temporary setback of, at most, ~20 seconds in Planetside 2, and nothing more. In Dust, dying can be very expensive. This is why comparing Dust to other FPS games is so useless. Some people who see you using an AUR weapon will kill you simply because they know you're more likely to get pissed off at that loss. They'll blow up your tank because they know those are also expensive. The fact that death matters, and everything is paid for (or so CCP likes to claim) is meant to be one of Dust's biggest draws. With unrestricted FF, it'd make it one of its biggest shortcomings.

All these people whining about "I don't want FF because I'll loose expensive gear and have no recourse to do anything about it. I want a safe FPS experience." make's me think some people are just too lazy, or not creative enough, to be able to cope with it in game. They want an automatic mechanic or a lazy button to get rid of the problem rather than putting in time and effort to coordinate a community response.



I want to win the match not spend all my time rounding up a community response. The other team gets an easy win because my team is too busy spawn camping a TK'er so he can't kill them.....awesome. Now that's something I would come back to do time and time again rather then go play any of the thousand other games in existence.

If your team would be spawn camping a TKer then your team would deserve to loose. It's easy to have a TKer considered a shoot on sight target just like any other enemy soldier. If that's too hard, then maybe another game is in your future should FF ever be brought to pub matches.

If one can't take the heat one should stay out of the fire. But knowing that there are fewer and fewer players with the maturity to accept their losses and move on... Make their game a living hell by organizing the community against them. If you're getting repeatedly TKed but insist on continuing to bring out the most expensive gear, then you deserve to loose it. But then if you're getting continuously TKed, I doubt it's only one person hunting you. Who did you pi$$ off to be so afraid of FF?

Enabling FF will not work and it will accomplish what CCP does not want, which is a lot of dedicated DUST players will rethink their priorities. It will be fine with me because I have plenty of games to play that are significantly better RPGs. RPGs that are not choked by the seven year plan of CCP. It will reconfirm my opinion of back shooters like you and the filth that haunt FPSs.

The goons will love it and DUST will become an unplayable mess.

May you be the first to die by Friendly Fire.

@Shijima Kuraimaru, you are below Kitten Scrapings.

Your intelligence shines like The Black Hole Of Wishful Thinking.

New Berries come in shooting, today.

They purposefully shoot Blues in the back, today.

They have since the Open Beta.

There are no other servers. There is the one universe and there is one virtual server. There are no self hosted versions with the option to enable FF or not. The Battle Finder is a minimalist solution. It has no options, no filters and Dog Nose when we will ever see any.

Enabling FF will not work and it will accomplish what CCP does not want, which is a lot of dedicated DUST players will rethink their priorities. It will be fine with me because I have plenty of games to play that are significantly better RPGs. RPGs that are not choked by the seven year plan of CCP. It will reconfirm my opinion of back shooters like you and the filth that haunt FPSs.

The goons will love it and DUST will become an unplayable mess.

May you be the first to die by Friendly Fire.

You've been making ridiculous posts one after another. So, you're saying that if I bring out expensive gear (because the other team has brought them out) and I'm trying to win......that I should stop when I'm getting trolled-TKed?? Well, what about the win??

And you don't have to be a jerk to get TKed. You could really just be wiping the floor with someone and now they're on your team for the payback. Or, maybe I could disagree with you on the forums and then you see me in game.

Have you ever played BF3? Have you ever been kicked by an admin? People are jerks...that's the way it is but CCP shouldn't enable them.

Having to spend REAL money is not a laughing matter.

TL;DR
I can team kill and be team killed, and have no penalty because i payed for the game and you didn't. How is that fair?

It's funny how every the carebears come in and start spreading the same FUD about griefing in every FPS forum. Yet I've never played an FPS which is ruined by FF - and every single FF mode is better then the one without. Us pro-FF players are not griefers, and there are plenty of reasons to desire FF as listed in the OP, and in numerous follow-ups by me and others.

No I haven't played BF3. I'm saying that if you're getting trolled and you keep bringing out the good gear while being trolled, then though you're having an unpleasant experience, it's still a problem between you and the troll. If FF comes in and I get trolled, I'll most likely shoot back and keep them in mind as a target for the rest of the match.

So what it comes down to is that you want to ruin the fun of those who want FF and a game that breaks away from the common ones in favor of keeping it fun for carebears and in line with other carebear friendly FPS games. That is your ultimate position right? It doesn't matter what direction it goes, there will always be jerks and someone's fun will always be runine, Can't be avoided.

What??? So, you think FF will greatly improve the gameplay of Dust??

The difference between FF in other shooters and Dust is that a death means nothing in other shooters but it means ISK and aur loss here. And people don't mind dying but to get TKed from a troll and lose that currency is NOT cool. And that's the sole reason why I'm against FF in Dust. It isn't cool to lose a dropsuit cause a blue want the hacking points. Or, because he feel like you shouldn't hack the CRU cause he wants to cap it.

FF isn't going to positively impact gameplay. There are other additions that CCP should implement like a good SP system, faster gameplay, faster player movements, more players per battle, etc. How can FF even compare to those when talking about improving gameplay?? Hell, even graphics ranks higher than adding FF. In terms of impacting gameplay, FF ranks with adding debris flying in the air.

I'll just note (probably I'm not the first one in this thread) that CCP does not plan to turn on FF in pub matches (I think it was stated in one of the interviews).

That said, if you are getting intentionally TKed in corp battles, well, there is a black sheep in your flock. This is New Eden. Spies happen. Your problem that you didn't figure the mole by yourself.

"Ruin the fun"?? FF was never here, yet you're still playing this game. This isn't about removing FF but adding it. You didn't downloand Dust and said, "Yes! They have friendly fire...I can't wait to play it". You dl'ed dust for other reasons. I never say this but if you want FF, then you should go and play the games that has FF

most people will be running militia or basic suits, say around 30000 isk at most, you get TK'ed well there goes 30000 isk, but even the worst players are earning 100k isk per match, and decent players at least 300k, so the argument about loss of isk doesn't really hold weight, you can earn back that money quite quickly. Now if i lost a proto fit to FF i would be pissed, but the only time you're gonna see proto suit's is corp battles,

I'll just note (probably I'm not the first one in this thread) that CCP does not plan to turn on FF in pub matches (I think it was stated in one of the interviews).

That said, if you are getting intentionally TKed in corp battles, well, there is a black sheep in your flock. This is New Eden. Spies happen. Your problem that you didn't figure the mole by yourself.

No, it's not there yet. The key word being yet. And yet I see you haven't actually read everything I've been saying, or you have been reading and just not understanding.

One point is that there's a possibility that it will be implemented over all, and not just in faction/corp warfare. Another point is that malicious TKing won't be as big of an issue as many think. There are many FF enabled games that don't have extreme penalties where TKing is not some game killing epidemic. And yet again another point is that there is no evidence that I can find where TKing is ruining, or has ruined, a game that has allowed FF therfore leaving most of these arguments against FF baseless.

Like gbghg said...



If you take more costly gear into pub matches, then that's all on you.

One point is that there's a possibility that it will be implemented over all, and not just in faction/corp warfare. Another point is that malicious TKing won't be as big of an issue as many think. There are many FF enabled games that don't have extreme penalties where TKing is not some game killing epidemic. And yet again another point is that there is no evidence that I can find where TKing is ruining, or has ruined, a game that has allowed FF therfore leaving most of these arguments against FF baseless.


Where have you been under a rock...duno what games you have been playing???



If you take more costly gear into pub matches, then that's all on you

Then why am i gaining sp to not use good gear?? If theres restictions to holding one back because of other jackasses doing stupid s**t then WTF going on? thats just crap.

i'm going to interject here.

First off the stuff you're complaining about, FF in pub matches? most people will be running militia or basic suits, say around 30000 isk at most, you get TK'ed well there goes 30000 isk, but even the worst players are earning 100k isk per match, and decent players at least 300k, so the argument about loss of isk doesn't really hold weight, you can earn back that money quite quickly. Now if i lost a proto fit to FF i would be pissed, but the only time you're gonna see proto suit's is corp battles, which brings me to my second point.

Corp battles are the biggest reason there is to implement FF, the number of options it offer corp's to screw with each other in the middle of fights is huge and is true New Eden style. if you're losing huge amounts of isk to a couple of well placed traitors, well that's crap for your team, and a huge advantage to your enemies. FF in this situation would mean that Dust is a proper part of the EVE universe and grants corp's a range of options you don't see in a normal FPS which is one of the biggest draws of Dust, it's different and everything you do has some form of impact no matter how small.

And thirdly would you please tell me what FF enabled game's you have played, how long you have played them, and how many times you have been TK'ed in that time. Because i personally have been playing hardcore battlefield for 5 years now and have only been maliciously TK about 6 times

FF was never here, yet you're still playing this game. This isn't about removing FF but adding it. You didn't downloand Dust and said, "Yes! They have friendly fire...I can't wait to play it". You dl'ed dust for other reasons. I never say this but if you want FF, then you should go and play the games that has FF

Excuse me....only militia suits in pub matches?? You don't know this playerbase.....wait until guys get their sps up. You will see proto gear and duvolles in pub matches like it's nothing. So, if I see someone pull out adv gear then I'm pulling mine out to compete.

Secondly, I've played MAG for 3 years and deliberate TKing was a norm. They had one swipe knives that they had to remove from friendly fire because it was so bad. You couldn't get kicked from FF if it were explosives so guys spawned with grenade launchers and that's how they used to kill you. Ask anyone that knows about the Warriors...they were notorious for dumb ****. And MAG playerbase has migrated to Dust, so I don't expect any difference. Not to mention, I've been shot at already just so I can abandon an installation and they can get the full hack.

We need to stop being naive here....but if not, wait and you'll see if they implement FF

Edit: and on the other note...Dust & Eve ARE two separate games but in the same universe. You don't need to know anything about Eve to play Dust & vice versa. CCP can continue to add more games or even a virtual world like PS Home to this universe. All different games but connected

@ Shjjma

"One game isn't necessarily the standard for all"

So, why the **** you guys keep referencing FF's "success" in other games here?? I've read a few posts in this thread, saying that it has worked fine other games

Edit: and on the other note...Dust & Eve ARE two separate games but in the same universe. You don't need to know anything about Eve to play Dust & vice versa. CCP can continue to add more games or even a virtual world like PS Home to this universe. All different games but connected

Right. So someone that wants you out of the match can just spawn in a cheap and cheerful scout suit, stalk you, and jump in your line of fire when you're attacking to get TKed by you enough to give them the option of kicking you out of the match.

I'll just note (probably I'm not the first one in this thread) that CCP does not plan to turn on FF in pub matches (I think it was stated in one of the interviews).

That said, if you are getting intentionally TKed in corp battles, well, there is a black sheep in your flock. This is New Eden. Spies happen. Your problem that you didn't figure the mole by yourself.

I'll just note (probably I'm not the first one in this thread) that CCP does not plan to turn on FF in pub matches (I think it was stated in one of the interviews).


There ya go ^

Problem solved.