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Ner'Zul Nexhawk Talos Incorporated 153	Posted - 2013.02.03 21:37:00 - [121] - Quote I'll just note (probably I'm not the first one in this thread) that CCP does not plan to turn on FF in pub matches (I think it was stated in one of the interviews). That said, if you are getting intentionally TKed in corp battles, well, there is a black sheep in your flock. This is New Eden. Spies happen. Your problem that you didn't figure the mole by yourself.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 379	Posted - 2013.02.03 21:41:00 - [122] - Quote Ner'Zul Nexhawk wrote: I'll just note (probably I'm not the first one in this thread) that CCP does not plan to turn on FF in pub matches (I think it was stated in one of the interviews). That said, if you are getting intentionally TKed in corp battles, well, there is a black sheep in your flock. This is New Eden. Spies happen. Your problem that you didn't figure the mole by yourself. You remember where that interview was? if so I'd appreciate a link
Shijima Kuraimaru WarRavens 168	Posted - 2013.02.03 22:12:00 - [123] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: "Ruin the fun"?? FF was never here, yet you're still playing this game. This isn't about removing FF but adding it. You didn't downloand Dust and said, "Yes! They have friendly fire...I can't wait to play it". You dl'ed dust for other reasons. I never say this but if you want FF, then you should go and play the games that has FF No, it's not there yet. The key word being yet. And yet I see you haven't actually read everything I've been saying, or you have been reading and just not understanding. One point is that there's a possibility that it will be implemented over all, and not just in faction/corp warfare. Another point is that malicious TKing won't be as big of an issue as many think. There are many FF enabled games that don't have extreme penalties where TKing is not some game killing epidemic. And yet again another point is that there is no evidence that I can find where TKing is ruining, or has ruined, a game that has allowed FF therfore leaving most of these arguments against FF baseless. Like gbghg said... gbghg wrote: most people will be running militia or basic suits, say around 30000 isk at most, you get TK'ed well there goes 30000 isk, but even the worst players are earning 100k isk per match, and decent players at least 300k, so the argument about loss of isk doesn't really hold weight, you can earn back that money quite quickly. Now if i lost a proto fit to FF i would be pissed, but the only time you're gonna see proto suit's is corp battles, If you take more costly gear into pub matches, then that's all on you.
Shijima Kuraimaru WarRavens 168	Posted - 2013.02.03 22:16:00 - [124] - Quote Ner'Zul Nexhawk wrote: I'll just note (probably I'm not the first one in this thread) that CCP does not plan to turn on FF in pub matches (I think it was stated in one of the interviews). That said, if you are getting intentionally TKed in corp battles, well, there is a black sheep in your flock. This is New Eden. Spies happen. Your problem that you didn't figure the mole by yourself. It's been said many times but it needs to be repeated often for those who don't remember. LOL
addsta01 The Southern Legion 12	Posted - 2013.02.03 22:22:00 - [125] - Quote Shijima Kuraimaru wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: "Ruin the fun"?? FF was never here, yet you're still playing this game. This isn't about removing FF but adding it. You didn't downloand Dust and said, "Yes! They have friendly fire...I can't wait to play it". You dl'ed dust for other reasons. I never say this but if you want FF, then you should go and play the games that has FF No, it's not there yet. The key word being yet. And yet I see you haven't actually read everything I've been saying, or you have been reading and just not understanding. One point is that there's a possibility that it will be implemented over all, and not just in faction/corp warfare. Another point is that malicious TKing won't be as big of an issue as many think. There are many FF enabled games that don't have extreme penalties where TKing is not some game killing epidemic. And yet again another point is that there is no evidence that I can find where TKing is ruining, or has ruined, a game that has allowed FF therfore leaving most of these arguments against FF baseless. Like gbghg said... gbghg wrote: most people will be running militia or basic suits, say around 30000 isk at most, you get TK'ed well there goes 30000 isk, but even the worst players are earning 100k isk per match, and decent players at least 300k, so the argument about loss of isk doesn't really hold weight, you can earn back that money quite quickly. Now if i lost a proto fit to FF i would be pissed, but the only time you're gonna see proto suit's is corp battles, If you take more costly gear into pub matches, then that's all on you. One point is that there's a possibility that it will be implemented over all, and not just in faction/corp warfare. Another point is that malicious TKing won't be as big of an issue as many think. There are many FF enabled games that don't have extreme penalties where TKing is not some game killing epidemic. And yet again another point is that there is no evidence that I can find where TKing is ruining, or has ruined, a game that has allowed FF therfore leaving most of these arguments against FF baseless. Where have you been under a rock...duno what games you have been playing??? If you take more costly gear into pub matches, then that's all on you Then why am i gaining sp to not use good gear?? If theres restictions to holding one back because of other jackasses doing stupid s**t then WTF going on? thats just crap.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 379	Posted - 2013.02.03 22:27:00 - [126] - Quote addsta01 wrote: Shijima Kuraimaru wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: "Ruin the fun"?? FF was never here, yet you're still playing this game. This isn't about removing FF but adding it. You didn't downloand Dust and said, "Yes! They have friendly fire...I can't wait to play it". You dl'ed dust for other reasons. I never say this but if you want FF, then you should go and play the games that has FF No, it's not there yet. The key word being yet. And yet I see you haven't actually read everything I've been saying, or you have been reading and just not understanding. One point is that there's a possibility that it will be implemented over all, and not just in faction/corp warfare. Another point is that malicious TKing won't be as big of an issue as many think. There are many FF enabled games that don't have extreme penalties where TKing is not some game killing epidemic. And yet again another point is that there is no evidence that I can find where TKing is ruining, or has ruined, a game that has allowed FF therfore leaving most of these arguments against FF baseless. Like gbghg said... gbghg wrote: most people will be running militia or basic suits, say around 30000 isk at most, you get TK'ed well there goes 30000 isk, but even the worst players are earning 100k isk per match, and decent players at least 300k, so the argument about loss of isk doesn't really hold weight, you can earn back that money quite quickly. Now if i lost a proto fit to FF i would be pissed, but the only time you're gonna see proto suit's is corp battles, If you take more costly gear into pub matches, then that's all on you. One point is that there's a possibility that it will be implemented over all, and not just in faction/corp warfare. Another point is that malicious TKing won't be as big of an issue as many think. There are many FF enabled games that don't have extreme penalties where TKing is not some game killing epidemic. And yet again another point is that there is no evidence that I can find where TKing is ruining, or has ruined, a game that has allowed FF therfore leaving most of these arguments against FF baseless. Where have you been under a rock...duno what games you have been playing??? If you take more costly gear into pub matches, then that's all on you Then why am i gaining sp to not use good gear?? If theres restictions to holding one back because of other jackasses doing stupid s**t then WTF going on? thats just crap. Invest your sp into core skills that improve all your kit, like the CPU/PG upgrades and basic weapon skills like sharpshooter or rapid reload. you use upgraded gear in fights that count, not some random pub.
Joseph Ridgeson Commando Perkone Caldari State 7	Posted - 2013.02.03 23:21:00 - [127] - Quote I am torn on this one. Friendly Fire on quick matches is a bad idea. In Corporate Warfare, maybe it is a better idea. Remember that saying "Without Friendly Fire, it's just not EVE" is kind of pointless because, well, this game isn't EVE. Would be like saying "Without a subscription, it just isn't WoW" about Diablo III. I have played games with Friendly Fire. Counter Strike with Friendly Fire and SOCOM to be the ones I played the most, a scant amount of MAG. However, there was a big difference in those games. If you were killed by a TK'er in Counter Strike, you had to wait out the match. In the others, respawn mostly. However, you have people putting both in game currency and often real money on the line. Sure, don't use what you can't afford to lose but it means that the person that actively kills party members goes from troll to actual malicious jerk. Another thing is the idea of an "oops" and new players. My father is playing this. He has not played any kind of console FPS before. Let's say that he starts shooting and knocks someone out when they are in an expensive suit. The game becomes even more hostile to new players which discourages them from playing. In EVE, killing a friendly on accident is pretty rare aside from not repping them, bombers, and smart bombs. In a type of game that relies heavily on getting lead in the air and grenades on the ground that can have significant cost to dying, I think it is not worth it and may make the game less enjoyable. Just my two cents. Be well.
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising 886	Posted - 2013.02.03 23:47:00 - [128] - Quote gbghg wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Arramakaian Eka wrote: KalOfTheRathi wrote: Enabling FF will not work and it will accomplish what CCP does not want, which is a lot of dedicated DUST players will rethink their priorities. It will be fine with me because I have plenty of games to play that are significantly better RPGs. RPGs that are not choked by the seven year plan of CCP. It will reconfirm my opinion of back shooters like you and the filth that haunt FPSs. The goons will love it and DUST will become an unplayable mess. May you be the first to die by Friendly Fire. It's funny how every the carebears come in and start spreading the same FUD about griefing in every FPS forum. Yet I've never played an FPS which is ruined by FF - and every single FF mode is better then the one without. Us pro-FF players are not griefers, and there are plenty of reasons to desire FF as listed in the OP, and in numerous follow-ups by me and others. What??? So, you think FF will greatly improve the gameplay of Dust?? The difference between FF in other shooters and Dust is that a death means nothing in other shooters but it means ISK and aur loss here. And people don't mind dying but to get TKed from a troll and lose that currency is NOT cool. And that's the sole reason why I'm against FF in Dust. It isn't cool to lose a dropsuit cause a blue want the hacking points. Or, because he feel like you shouldn't hack the CRU cause he wants to cap it. FF isn't going to positively impact gameplay. There are other additions that CCP should implement like a good SP system, faster gameplay, faster player movements, more players per battle, etc. How can FF even compare to those when talking about improving gameplay?? Hell, even graphics ranks higher than adding FF. In terms of impacting gameplay, FF ranks with adding debris flying in the air. i'm going to interject here. First off the stuff you're complaining about, FF in pub matches? most people will be running militia or basic suits, say around 30000 isk at most, you get TK'ed well there goes 30000 isk, but even the worst players are earning 100k isk per match, and decent players at least 300k, so the argument about loss of isk doesn't really hold weight, you can earn back that money quite quickly. Now if i lost a proto fit to FF i would be pissed, but the only time you're gonna see proto suit's is corp battles, which brings me to my second point. Corp battles are the biggest reason there is to implement FF, the number of options it offer corp's to screw with each other in the middle of fights is huge and is true New Eden style. if you're losing huge amounts of isk to a couple of well placed traitors, well that's crap for your team, and a huge advantage to your enemies. FF in this situation would mean that Dust is a proper part of the EVE universe and grants corp's a range of options you don't see in a normal FPS which is one of the biggest draws of Dust, it's different and everything you do has some form of impact no matter how small. And thirdly would you please tell me what FF enabled game's you have played, how long you have played them, and how many times you have been TK'ed in that time. Because i personally have been playing hardcore battlefield for 5 years now and have only been maliciously TK about 6 times Excuse me....only militia suits in pub matches?? You don't know this playerbase.....wait until guys get their sps up. You will see proto gear and duvolles in pub matches like it's nothing. So, if I see someone pull out adv gear then I'm pulling mine out to compete. Secondly, I've played MAG for 3 years and deliberate TKing was a norm. They had one swipe knives that they had to remove from friendly fire because it was so bad. You couldn't get kicked from FF if it were explosives so guys spawned with grenade launchers and that's how they used to kill you. Ask anyone that knows about the Warriors...they were notorious for dumb ****. And MAG playerbase has migrated to Dust, so I don't expect any difference. Not to mention, I've been shot at already just so I can abandon an installation and they can get the full hack. We need to stop being naive here....but if not, wait and you'll see if they implement FF
Arramakaian Eka Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 363	Posted - 2013.02.04 00:10:00 - [129] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: FF was never here, yet you're still playing this game. This isn't about removing FF but adding it. You didn't downloand Dust and said, "Yes! They have friendly fire...I can't wait to play it". You dl'ed dust for other reasons. I never say this but if you want FF, then you should go and play the games that has FF FF was always planned to be part of Dust. I wouldn't have even downloaded Dust if FF wasn't coming. I don't play FPSs for kiddies without FF.
Shijima Kuraimaru WarRavens 168	Posted - 2013.02.04 06:18:00 - [130] - Quote Yes, friendly fire has always been in the concept for Dust though it will most likely not be enabled in public quick matches. With that known, people can stop whinging about noobs and carebears getting their poor little hearts broken because of accidental or malicious TKing in quick matches. It is a mechanic that is necessary, without restriction or penalties, in faction and player run corp/clan warfare especially when it comes to planetary and star system control. If one can't handle possible friendly fire in the wilds then one should stay in quick/pub matches. No. Dust and Eve *are not* two separate games, they are two aspects of the same game. How can people be so dense as to not understand this simple fact?

Shijima Kuraimaru WarRavens 168	Posted - 2013.02.04 06:21:00 - [131] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: gbghg wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Arramakaian Eka wrote: KalOfTheRathi wrote: Enabling FF will not work and it will accomplish what CCP does not want, which is a lot of dedicated DUST players will rethink their priorities. It will be fine with me because I have plenty of games to play that are significantly better RPGs. RPGs that are not choked by the seven year plan of CCP. It will reconfirm my opinion of back shooters like you and the filth that haunt FPSs. The goons will love it and DUST will become an unplayable mess. May you be the first to die by Friendly Fire. It's funny how every the carebears come in and start spreading the same FUD about griefing in every FPS forum. Yet I've never played an FPS which is ruined by FF - and every single FF mode is better then the one without. Us pro-FF players are not griefers, and there are plenty of reasons to desire FF as listed in the OP, and in numerous follow-ups by me and others. What??? So, you think FF will greatly improve the gameplay of Dust?? The difference between FF in other shooters and Dust is that a death means nothing in other shooters but it means ISK and aur loss here. And people don't mind dying but to get TKed from a troll and lose that currency is NOT cool. And that's the sole reason why I'm against FF in Dust. It isn't cool to lose a dropsuit cause a blue want the hacking points. Or, because he feel like you shouldn't hack the CRU cause he wants to cap it. FF isn't going to positively impact gameplay. There are other additions that CCP should implement like a good SP system, faster gameplay, faster player movements, more players per battle, etc. How can FF even compare to those when talking about improving gameplay?? Hell, even graphics ranks higher than adding FF. In terms of impacting gameplay, FF ranks with adding debris flying in the air. i'm going to interject here. First off the stuff you're complaining about, FF in pub matches? most people will be running militia or basic suits, say around 30000 isk at most, you get TK'ed well there goes 30000 isk, but even the worst players are earning 100k isk per match, and decent players at least 300k, so the argument about loss of isk doesn't really hold weight, you can earn back that money quite quickly. Now if i lost a proto fit to FF i would be pissed, but the only time you're gonna see proto suit's is corp battles, which brings me to my second point. Corp battles are the biggest reason there is to implement FF, the number of options it offer corp's to screw with each other in the middle of fights is huge and is true New Eden style. if you're losing huge amounts of isk to a couple of well placed traitors, well that's crap for your team, and a huge advantage to your enemies. FF in this situation would mean that Dust is a proper part of the EVE universe and grants corp's a range of options you don't see in a normal FPS which is one of the biggest draws of Dust, it's different and everything you do has some form of impact no matter how small. And thirdly would you please tell me what FF enabled game's you have played, how long you have played them, and how many times you have been TK'ed in that time. Because i personally have been playing hardcore battlefield for 5 years now and have only been maliciously TK about 6 times Excuse me....only militia suits in pub matches?? You don't know this playerbase.....wait until guys get their sps up. You will see proto gear and duvolles in pub matches like it's nothing. So, if I see someone pull out adv gear then I'm pulling mine out to compete. Secondly, I've played MAG for 3 years and deliberate TKing was a norm. They had one swipe knives that they had to remove from friendly fire because it was so bad. You couldn't get kicked from FF if it were explosives so guys spawned with grenade launchers and that's how they used to kill you. Ask anyone that knows about the Warriors...they were notorious for dumb ****. And MAG playerbase has migrated to Dust, so I don't expect any difference. Not to mention, I've been shot at already just so I can abandon an installation and they can get the full hack. We need to stop being naive here....but if not, wait and you'll see if they implement FF Never played MAG and the norm for one game is not necessarily the standard for all. To think so is to be either ignorant, arrogant, or naive.
Corex Haan Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2013.02.04 06:39:00 - [132] - Quote Arramakaian Eka wrote: Griefing happens. CCP might include Vote-To-Kick, which is in most FPSs. I'm ambivalent; it does help dealing with dicks, although is wide open to abuse by organized squads and corps VTKing people they don't like or if they want to make room for corpmates. VTK also doesn't fit EVE universe. they could have the same system as Halo have if you get 2 or more team kills the one the guy kills can decide if he wants to kick him or not. Also FINALY FF even now i stop shooting if a team mate runs in to my field of fire.
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising 886	Posted - 2013.02.04 06:50:00 - [133] - Quote @ Shjjma "One game isn't necessarily the standard for all" So, why the **** you guys keep referencing FF's "success" in other games here?? I've read a few posts in this thread, saying that it has worked fine other games Edit: and on the other note...Dust & Eve ARE two separate games but in the same universe. You don't need to know anything about Eve to play Dust & vice versa. CCP can continue to add more games or even a virtual world like PS Home to this universe. All different games but connected
Ner'Zul Nexhawk Talos Incorporated 153	Posted - 2013.02.04 12:25:00 - [134] - Quote Ydubbs81 wrote: Edit: and on the other note...Dust & Eve ARE two separate games but in the same universe. You don't need to know anything about Eve to play Dust & vice versa. CCP can continue to add more games or even a virtual world like PS Home to this universe. All different games but connected Is that so? Do we not play as the same races as the capsuleers do? Do our corps not affect the Factional Warfare in EVE already? Will our corps not conquer planets in EVE? Lastly, will both games' economies not intertwine to form a single, cohesive, one? I could go on and on. This is not just two games, connected by sharing the same universe.
recline soldier VENGEANCE FOR HIRE 11	Posted - 2013.02.04 15:28:00 - [135] - Quote I like the idea of friendly fire. That way people cant just chuck grenades and spray and pray everywhere. It adds a degree of realism into the game.
Shijima Kuraimaru WarRavens 168	Posted - 2013.02.04 19:53:00 - [136] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: @ Shjjma "One game isn't necessarily the standard for all" So, why the **** you guys keep referencing FF's "success" in other games here?? I've read a few posts in this thread, saying that it has worked fine other games Edit: and on the other note...Dust & Eve ARE two separate games but in the same universe. You don't need to know anything about Eve to play Dust & vice versa. CCP can continue to add more games or even a virtual world like PS Home to this universe. All different games but connected And there were references to multiple games where FF has had success in those posts where your post only references a single game. Ner'Zul Nexhawk has replied fittingly to your "edit" paragraph.
Cygnus Gogela Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance 50	Posted - 2013.02.04 23:41:00 - [137] - Quote Shijima Kuraimaru wrote: Cygnus Gogela wrote: Shijima Kuraimaru wrote: You still state that if things don't go your way then you'll become part of the problem. The "They're doing it so I will too." syndrome. If that's really the way you think I can only hope a lot of people you know don't start jumping off bridges. And besides, yes, this is probably a waste of keystrokes because it doesn't look like CCP is going to implement FF in pub matches anyway. If they do I will be pleasantly surprised. Your idea of a field marshal with the power to kick someone from a match is a really bad idea. That's one that will get exploited a lot. You'll get elitist FMs that'll kick people for many invalid reasons. I can just see it... You took my kill! kick You don't have a mic! kick I don't like your name! kick I don't know you! kick You killed me in a match three months ago! kick That's my hack! kick You died too many times! kick I don't like your voice! kick You're a girl! kick I don't like your corp! kick You're not part of my corp! kick I've heard all that and more in games where a field commander had the power to remove someone from the field of play. You think the occasional TK is bad, That's worse. At least with TKers you have the option to retaliate, you could do nothing about a "field marshal". The field marshal arbitrarily making that decision isn't what I had in mind (i brought that up as more of a lore/explanation angle). I'm not talking about re-inventing the wheel. On your second or third friendly kill the teammate you killed just gets a little "boot traitor? Y/N" option while re-spawning. That's all. ...and again, public matches are all that would really concern me... but having that as an option in any match should be a given. Right. So someone that wants you out of the match can just spawn in a cheap and cheerful scout suit, stalk you, and jump in your line of fire when you're attacking to get TKed by you enough to give them the option of kicking you out of the match. Yah I guess... but what I'm describing is what's in most other FPS games, and while yah there are people who try to get you to kill them (taking your shields down to make you more vulnerable to the enemy, standing in front of your tank gun or super weapon line of fire, etc...) it's not that big a deal. It's annoying but not all that common. It's better than the alternative. Other FPS's also take that into consideration for the "boot player" button too... so if you take down a guys shield or really wound him and he in turn kills you, you do NOT get the option to boot him since you put damage on that dude before he killed you. No matter what people will find a way to grief to some degree... I just don't want that grieving to be game breaking. Ner'Zul Nexhawk wrote: I'll just note (probably I'm not the first one in this thread) that CCP does not plan to turn on FF in pub matches (I think it was stated in one of the interviews). That said, if you are getting intentionally TKed in corp battles, well, there is a black sheep in your flock. This is New Eden. Spies happen. Your problem that you didn't figure the mole by yourself. There ya go ^ Problem solved.
Shijima Kuraimaru WarRavens 168	Posted - 2013.02.05 04:07:00 - [138] - Quote Ner'Zul Nexhawk wrote: I'll just note (probably I'm not the first one in this thread) that CCP does not plan to turn on FF in pub matches (I think it was stated in one of the interviews). Cygnus Gogela wrote: That said, if you are getting intentionally TKed in corp battles, well, there is a black sheep in your flock. This is New Eden. Spies happen. Your problem that you didn't figure the mole by yourself. There ya go ^ Problem solved. Yeah, I know. I've said something similar multiple times in this thread.


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