DUST Search - Here is why we should welcome Friendly Fire

Arramakaian Eka wrote:

So Friendly Fire is finally coming to Dust. It's not something we should be concerned about.

Note that the exact way it is introduced has not been outlined yet, AFAIK. I hope it will be always on, but it might be on in Corp battles and nullsec only. Any WP/SP/ISK penalties (if any) has not been released, either, and I'd prefer to keep that discussion on another thread.

Here why we should welcome FF:

Friendly Fire promotes more deliberate gameplay, and discourages spray-and-pray since you can't shoot everything that moves
You will not get TKd all the time. I only play FF modes in FPSs, and I suffer a non-accidental TK perhaps every ten game sessions, and see them rarely
Griefing happens. CCP might include Vote-To-Kick, which is in most FPSs. I'm ambivalent; it does help dealing with dicks, although is wide open to abuse by organized squads and corps VTKing people they don't like or if they want to make room for corpmates. VTK also doesn't fit EVE universe.
Accidents happen to you and your teammates. L2P and HTFU; or better yet, laugh about it. Some of the funniest FPS memories I have are of TKs. Like that one time in TO:AOT I threw a grenade which bounced off a ceiling beam right in the middle of my team following me, killing four of them. I didn't even get votekicked, everyone was laughing so hard - this is on pub. Or that other time a teammate popped their head right in the center of my sights as I squeezed the trigger on my sniper rifle. Pop goes the head. Good times.
TK is a perfectly valid and necessary tactic for corp spies, infiltrators, and assassins. In fact, it will allow for whole new avenues for gameplay we haven't seen in FPSs if CCP has the balls to introduce such contracts.
TK is a perfectly valid way to deal with AFKers in some games. Not sure if there's a use for it in Dust since you have unlimited spawns and don't get dropped if you don't spawn since you're AFK.
And the most important lesson from my EVE days: if you can't afford to lose it, don't use it. It being a dropsuit or gear.

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Arramakaian Eka Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 363	Posted - 2013.01.31 16:27:00 - [1] - Quote So Friendly Fire is finally coming to Dust. It's not something we should be concerned about. Note that the exact way it is introduced has not been outlined yet, AFAIK. I hope it will be always on, but it might be on in Corp battles and nullsec only. Any WP/SP/ISK penalties (if any) has not been released, either, and I'd prefer to keep that discussion on another thread. Here why we should welcome FF: Friendly Fire promotes more deliberate gameplay, and discourages spray-and-pray since you can't shoot everything that moves You will not get TKd all the time. I only play FF modes in FPSs, and I suffer a non-accidental TK perhaps every ten game sessions, and see them rarely Griefing happens. CCP might include Vote-To-Kick, which is in most FPSs. I'm ambivalent; it does help dealing with dicks, although is wide open to abuse by organized squads and corps VTKing people they don't like or if they want to make room for corpmates. VTK also doesn't fit EVE universe. Accidents happen to you and your teammates. L2P and HTFU; or better yet, laugh about it. Some of the funniest FPS memories I have are of TKs. Like that one time in TO:AOT I threw a grenade which bounced off a ceiling beam right in the middle of my team following me, killing four of them. I didn't even get votekicked, everyone was laughing so hard - this is on pub. Or that other time a teammate popped their head right in the center of my sights as I squeezed the trigger on my sniper rifle. Pop goes the head. Good times. TK is a perfectly valid and necessary tactic for corp spies, infiltrators, and assassins. In fact, it will allow for whole new avenues for gameplay we haven't seen in FPSs if CCP has the balls to introduce such contracts. TK is a perfectly valid way to deal with AFKers in some games. Not sure if there's a use for it in Dust since you have unlimited spawns and don't get dropped if you don't spawn since you're AFK. FF belongs in the ruthless EVE universe where every action has lasting repercussions. This is not your carebear FPS where death has no impact. [late addition to the list] And the most important lesson from my EVE days: if you can't afford to lose it, don't use it. It being a dropsuit or gear.
Pays 2 Win Shining Flame Amarr Empire 102	Posted - 2013.01.31 16:29:00 - [2] - Quote Arramakaian Eka wrote: Friendly Fire There is nothing friendly about Friendly Fire. Just saying
SoTa PoP Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1772	Posted - 2013.01.31 16:30:00 - [3] - Quote Arramakaian Eka wrote: *You will not* get TKd all the time.** lol - assumptions can lead to misery :)
ChromeBreaker SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 197	Posted - 2013.01.31 16:32:00 - [4] - Quote Have you met the goons?
Arramakaian Eka Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 363	Posted - 2013.01.31 16:33:00 - [5] - Quote SoTa PoP wrote: Arramakaian Eka wrote: *You will not* get TKd all the time.** lol - assumptions can lead to misery :) I have 15+ years of FPS experience to say with some authority that you will rarely get TKd. Unless there's a bounty on your head, or you scream profanities on team.
Beren Hurin OMNI Endeavors 183	Posted - 2013.01.31 16:33:00 - [6] - Quote What FF would also do is create 'battle lines'. People wouldn't just all scramble, flank, chase, and brawl indescriminately. What I think this would also mean is it would create a dynamic where more fallen clones are more likely to get injected. This could end up meaning more expensive equipment being brought if you can trust more people to pick you up. On the other hand it would fit within the culture of Eve very well for Awoxers to be parts of enemy teams and to terrible things like camp friendly drop uplinks, destroy their own turrets or run over their own team with vehicles in order to throw a match.
Arramakaian Eka Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 363	Posted - 2013.01.31 16:33:00 - [7] - Quote ChromeBreaker wrote: Have you met the goons? Already mentioned Vote-To-Kick which can be utilized in case of abuse.
Diesel Punk Doomheim 1	Posted - 2013.01.31 16:34:00 - [8] - Quote It would go along way to improving situational awareness
mikegunnz Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 425	Posted - 2013.01.31 16:34:00 - [9] - Quote I welcome FF. TBH, I believe it's been said FF will be off for high sec. On for low/null sec. You're more likely to be playing with corp-mates in areas with friendly fire, so there shouldn't be much of a problem... just adds depth to the gameplay. Teammates will have to think for a sec, before spamming MD, nades, or even AR fire into a crowd. Edit: Curious if FF will be reduced damage.... maybe 50%?
SoTa PoP Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1772	Posted - 2013.01.31 16:40:00 - [10] - Quote Arramakaian Eka wrote: SoTa PoP wrote: Arramakaian Eka wrote: *You will not* get TKd all the time.** lol - assumptions can lead to misery :) I have 15+ years of FPS experience to say with some authority that you will rarely get TKd. Unless there's a bounty on your head, or you scream profanities on team. Your past experience doesn't amount to anything around here. Or can you name a past game that you have to buy several pieces of gears individually - set up the suit - then have to buy in bulk cause each death = it gone in a competitive environment online? Sorry but this isn't like other FPS's, griefing will be the best way to cause tears once friendly fire is on and there will be an OUT CRY for it to be gone by the newberries once it goes up. No one enjoys knowing that there 100,000 ISK suit just got taken from them because an ally wanted a kill without thinking which ally was near by. Friendly fire is ganna be epic with all the tears :)

Arramakaian Eka Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 363	Posted - 2013.01.31 16:42:00 - [11] - Quote SoTa PoP wrote: Arramakaian Eka wrote: SoTa PoP wrote: Arramakaian Eka wrote: *You will not* get TKd all the time.** lol - assumptions can lead to misery :) I have 15+ years of FPS experience to say with some authority that you will rarely get TKd. Unless there's a bounty on your head, or you scream profanities on team. Your past experience doesn't amount to anything around here. Or can you name a past game that you have to buy several pieces of gears individually - set up the suit - then have to buy in bulk cause each death = it gone in a competitive environment online? Sorry but this isn't like other FPS's, griefing will be the best way to cause tears once friendly fire is on and there will be an OUT CRY for it to be gone by the newberries once it goes up. No one enjoys knowing that there 100,000 ISK suit just got taken from them because an ally wanted a kill without thinking which ally was near by. Friendly fire is ganna be epic with all the tears :) Already addressed in last item on the list: if you can't afford to lose it, don't use it. HTFU.
DTOracle Universal Allies Inc. 95	Posted - 2013.01.31 16:43:00 - [12] - Quote Just so long as there is a sufficient penalty for TKing. I can't tell you how many times I got shot in the back by a team mate, who wanted the points for capping an objective in MAG. Though personally I welcome it, as the Pros outweigh the Cons.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1593	Posted - 2013.01.31 16:44:00 - [13] - Quote I get the feeling friendly fire will actually help solve the issue of mass driver spamming and grenade spamming.
Fox Gaden DUST University Ivy League 165	Posted - 2013.01.31 16:46:00 - [14] - Quote If Friendly fire is not active in Pub matches, but is in Corp matches, people are going to develop some really bad habits in Pub matches which they will have to unlearn later. I think FF should be activated everywhere.
2-Ton Twenty-One Imperfects Negative-Feedback 235	Posted - 2013.01.31 16:47:00 - [15] - Quote yes to FF
Odiain Suliis ZionTCD Legacy Rising 112	Posted - 2013.01.31 16:53:00 - [16] - Quote :P I would love to have FF on. Ah.. the tears and FUN.
EternalRMG ZionTCD Legacy Rising 234	Posted - 2013.01.31 16:55:00 - [17] - Quote IT WILL AFFECT FW AND COPR BATTLES ONLY NO FF ON PUB MATCHES
R F Gyro ZionTCD Legacy Rising 315	Posted - 2013.01.31 17:02:00 - [18] - Quote I'm fairly sure I don't want FF on in matches where I don't get to choose my team-mates. A number of people have already said in these forums that they will shoot team mates who are hacking objectives so they can get the hack themselves.
Yay Adski Imperfects Negative-Feedback 133	Posted - 2013.01.31 17:04:00 - [19] - Quote Tell me if you'll still think it's funny when you're using 3-400k proto suits. I know it may be hard to believe but people will TK you just because they can.
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising 886	Posted - 2013.01.31 17:06:00 - [20] - Quote Arramakaian Eka wrote: So Friendly Fire is finally coming to Dust. It's not something we should be concerned about. Note that the exact way it is introduced has not been outlined yet, AFAIK. I hope it will be always on, but it might be on in Corp battles and nullsec only. Any WP/SP/ISK penalties (if any) has not been released, either, and I'd prefer to keep that discussion on another thread. Here why we should welcome FF: Friendly Fire promotes more deliberate gameplay, and discourages spray-and-pray since you can't shoot everything that moves You will not get TKd all the time. I only play FF modes in FPSs, and I suffer a non-accidental TK perhaps every ten game sessions, and see them rarely Griefing happens. CCP might include Vote-To-Kick, which is in most FPSs. I'm ambivalent; it does help dealing with dicks, although is wide open to abuse by organized squads and corps VTKing people they don't like or if they want to make room for corpmates. VTK also doesn't fit EVE universe. Accidents happen to you and your teammates. L2P and HTFU; or better yet, laugh about it. Some of the funniest FPS memories I have are of TKs. Like that one time in TO:AOT I threw a grenade which bounced off a ceiling beam right in the middle of my team following me, killing four of them. I didn't even get votekicked, everyone was laughing so hard - this is on pub. Or that other time a teammate popped their head right in the center of my sights as I squeezed the trigger on my sniper rifle. Pop goes the head. Good times. TK is a perfectly valid and necessary tactic for corp spies, infiltrators, and assassins. In fact, it will allow for whole new avenues for gameplay we haven't seen in FPSs if CCP has the balls to introduce such contracts. TK is a perfectly valid way to deal with AFKers in some games. Not sure if there's a use for it in Dust since you have unlimited spawns and don't get dropped if you don't spawn since you're AFK. And the most important lesson from my EVE days: if you can't afford to lose it, don't use it. It being a dropsuit or gear. I'm usually not but I am going to be hostile as this thread demands it...... But this is the dumbest thing to hit the game since the daily cap. 1. "discourages spray-and-pray"?? You know what discourages spray and pray?.....An enemy that can shoot!! This is by far the most ridiculous reason to implement TKing. Do you think that someone who's spraying and praying cares who they are killing? They are spraying for a reason...think about it. 2. "VTK"? Really?? Smart trollers will only TK bluedots or better yet...leave the squad and create their own so they can't be VTKed. Not to mention....one intentional TK is one too many. I don't want to lose one proto suit to a dik that's just out for kicks. 3. If some of your best moments are TKing, then you are the sort of player that makes TKing intolerable. I don't understand why anyone would include friendly fire to increase gameplay satisfaction. I mean, what kind of player needs that? CCP can do better by increasing gameplay movements and faster gameplay feel. 4. TKing is silly for infiltrators...because once you TK once, you are immediately getting kicked out of the corp. 5. And the dumbest reason of 'em all....."if you can't afford to lose it...." WTMF! I can have 500 proto suits and can afford to lose 400 of them but why would I want to LOSE ONE by an intentional teamkill??? I can be solo in a match with randoms and don proto gear to help get the win. To get trolled and intentionally shot in my proto suit is not cool and not something CCP should be implementing. Friendly fire, again, is the dumbest idea to hit since the daily cap

SoTa PoP Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1772	Posted - 2013.01.31 17:09:00 - [21] - Quote Scrubs in assaults are going to keep trying to steal my kills like they have by standing in front of my HMG as I fire. Can't wait for FF :) And the hate mail. :D "Why didn't you stop firing!?" ... "Why did you step in front of me..?"
Returner Tekki ZionTCD Legacy Rising 24	Posted - 2013.01.31 17:09:00 - [22] - Quote There should be an auto kick so if some guy/gal goes on a rampage and kills 5 friendlies he/she should get the boot.
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising 886	Posted - 2013.01.31 17:11:00 - [23] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: I get the feeling friendly fire will actually help solve the issue of mass driver spamming and grenade spamming. The grenade spamming is fixed.....what will solve the mass driver spam is a shorten clip, or reload after 2 explosives, or a much slower ROF. Any one of those three will fix it....friendly fire will do nothing to change it. If you're the shooter, you don't care who gets in your way. Because you're not the one doing the dying
Returner Tekki ZionTCD Legacy Rising 24	Posted - 2013.01.31 17:13:00 - [24] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: I get the feeling friendly fire will actually help solve the issue of mass driver spamming and grenade spamming. The grenade spamming is fixed.....what will solve the mass driver spam is a shorten clip, or reload after 2 explosives, or a much slower ROF. Any one of those three will fix it....friendly fire will do nothing to change it. If you're the shooter, you don't care who gets in your way. Because you're not the one doing the dying grenade spamming is not fixed when you some yahoos camping and supply drop, but it did them no good the red berries died ugly.
SoTa PoP Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1772	Posted - 2013.01.31 17:14:00 - [25] - Quote HMG users will be the next hated snipers - instead of red line camping we'll be known as the TK'ers. None of us are going to stop shooting for some idiot to step in front of us for a second :)
Sleepy Zan Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 2047	Posted - 2013.01.31 17:16:00 - [26] - Quote Hello bunny hopping scout mass driver alt.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3064	Posted - 2013.01.31 17:16:00 - [27] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: I get the feeling friendly fire will actually help solve the issue of mass driver spamming and grenade spamming. The grenade spamming is fixed.....what will solve the mass driver spam is a shorten clip, or reload after 2 explosives, or a much slower ROF. Any one of those three will fix it....friendly fire will do nothing to change it. If you're the shooter, you don't care who gets in your way. Because you're not the one doing the dying Go use a mass driver, see how well you do compared to when you use an AR. post vids. EDIT: We can use this vid of yours to compare, beat the 38/1 K/D. Since you used an advanced AR, you should use an advanced MD. Your health in this vid is 225 shields, and 105 armor, so make sure your dropsuit has around the same HP.
Fivetimes Infinity Immobile Infantry 1086	Posted - 2013.01.31 17:18:00 - [28] - Quote Friendly fire done as thoughtlessly as the OP suggests it might would be a terrible idea. Here's how you do FF: 1) If you damage a friendly, you are fined an ISK/SP penalty based on the amount of damage you do. The penalty grows larger the more damage you do in a short period of time. One stray shot isn't a big deal, but unloading into a friendly would be heavily penalized. Similarly, if the game could track whether the friendly target shot were near an enemy target, and increase the penalty if the friendly was not (so as to differentiate accidents from malicious acts better) that'd be helpful. 1a) The exception to this is that, people in your corp, people in your pre-made squad, they do not cause you to be penalized as all if you shoot them. You can always leave your squad/corp if you started getting maliciously teamkilled by your "friends". So for corp battles, for example, there'd be friendly fire, but there'd never be penalties for it beyond what the corp works out for itself, should one of its members start going rogue. 2) If you kill a friendly, you are fined the cost of their fitting/vehicle on top of other expenses. 3) If any character on any of your accounts kills more than two or three friendlies a game, or deal X amount of damage, you become designated as a teamkiller. That is, you'll show up with a special chevron rather than regular blue or red one -- perhaps a purple chevron to split the difference. The status will persist for 30 minutes, through multiple games. When so designated, anyone in the game, on your team or the other, can kill you without repercussion. 4) If you are designated as a team killer more than X times in Y period of time on any of your accounts, you get banned for 1 day. If after that ban expires you again become designated as a teamkiller, you get banned for 3 days. Then 7, then 15, then 30. After, if you get designated as a teamkiller again, your account is permanently terminated and all your characters are deleted. I assume that the PS3 is able to ban by machine, so that's what it'd end up as. Without meaningful punishment for TK'ing that prevents alt PSN accounts being used to just go wild with friendly fire teamkilling, FF would be a bad addition to the game, and you'd routinely have to deal with people abusing friendly fire. The only way to make friendly fire work for a free game like this is to put access to the game at jeopardy for people should they abuse the system.
Zig Zag Zan Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 3	Posted - 2013.01.31 17:18:00 - [29] - Quote Sleepy Zan wrote: Hello bunny hopping scout mass driver alt. Hey how you doing man.
Sleepy Zan Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 2047	Posted - 2013.01.31 17:19:00 - [30] - Quote Zig Zag Zan wrote: Sleepy Zan wrote: Hello bunny hopping scout mass driver alt. Hey how you doing man. Ready to TK and grief with no remorse or risk.



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