And, to reiterate, there is already a game which is F2P, which is very similar to Dust in having earning money/experience for matches being a central part of the experience, which has FF. And the FF system they have is coupled with an intelligent and effective way for friendly damage and TK'ing to be automatically and appropriately punished. CCP doesn't need to look any further than World of Tanks to see a game with always-on FF, with zero cost for people to make an account and play, and which does not have any significant problem with TK'ers as a result.

Your fantasy about the solution coming from within the community, and involving a flawed voting system, are totally unneeded, even if they were sensible answers in the first place.

Ive played BF2 and other mmos FPS before and team killing was one reason i left these games Along with Bots etc,If FF is introduced they will have to address these issues carefully,In my experiance it will get exploted.Alot of players will not like it when there own team kills them on purpose and they lose 100k+ worth of gear especially if its done repeatedly...I cant see a player hanging around to have that happen constantly over and over for revenge or for just being a jackass..

Let me tell you why there shouldn't be FF

If you wipe the floor with someone one game, he's on your team next game, how fun do you think he/she would think it to be to kill your proto suit as many times as he could while on your team?

For MD and LR users, you will be punished for your team running in front of you or getting in blast radius.

For tank drivers, please this is ridiculous.

Random grenades before a team mate dies kills your 200k suit, because he wants revenge and you happen to be taking that revenge for him.

AV grenades, will they seek friendly vehicles?

When your CRU is camped, there will be many casualties.

Teamwork will consist of staying away from each other for no accidents.

WoT's system is fine for that style of game. I've played WoT. But there's going to be more at stake in New Eden than the immediate match. It's called persistence. Something that WoT has only when it comes to tanks and crews one has in one's available inventory Nothing in WoT carries any real potential weight. When considering the direction Dust is intended to go, and where CCP is inexorably taking Dust because it's their game, we need open friendly fire. If one can't find a way to deal with FF in game without some game breaking mechanic, then one isn't going to be able to deal with New Eden when the main elements of the ground aspect are brought in.

Planetside 2 is much closer to Dust, has Friendly Fire, and doesn't use VTK. Your weapon gets locked after enough FF damage/kills AFAIK.

Let me tell you why there shouldn't be FF


If you wipe the floor with someone one game, he's on your team next game, how fun do you think he/she would think it to be to kill your proto suit as many times as he could while on your team?

For MD and LR users, you will be punished for your team running in front of you or getting in blast radius.

For tank drivers, please this is ridiculous.

For DS gunners, the missiles spitting out wherever they feel, ya that's fair.

Random grenades before a team mate dies kills your 200k suit, because he wants revenge and you happen to be taking that revenge for him.

AV grenades, will they seek friendly vehicles?

When your CRU is camped, there will be many casualties.

Teamwork will consist of staying away from each other for no accidents.

I could go on but eeeeh.

But, for the nth time, the gameplay reasons suffice. I just thought I'd mention that FF which didn't have automatic, serious sanctions would be pretty silly from a "lore" or "fluff" perspective, or whatever you call it. If the FF penalties involved reducing, then removing your ISK payout, then booting from a match (contract termination), then account suspension (temporary merc license revocation) and then permanent suspension (merc license termination) after too many account suspensions, it'd be WoT's very effective anti-TK system, and also totally plausible within the context of New Eden.

There is nothing at stake in Dust. The idea that it's relevant to EVE is simply an idea that will, a year or more from now, become a reality. For now, WoT has by far more at stake than Dust. Not only are tanks really expensive to buy and equip and maintain (such that people consider WoT a "grindy" game) but the Clan Wars aspect, where you fight for territory, awards you an AUR-equivalent very helpfully called "gold". That's more than you can say for Dust. So let's not pretend Dust is some special snowflake here.

And more importantly, the majority of Dust players will never go beyond Instant Battle. They'll never do corp wars, never do nullsec stuff. They'll just play Dust like any ol' FPS game. And Dust needs to be fun for those people, too. Sacrificing the fun of those casual folks, simply because of some nonsense about how "New Eden" is "supposed to be", as if that's more important than making a fun game, isn't a winning strategy. It's possible for CCP to add FF, and to make FF a good addition rather than a detriment. WoT has done it. Amarhadhsdb and his ideas won't do it. Your opinion that the community will magically find a solution (just like it finds a solution for tanks that start dominating their team, right?) is a work of fiction.

There are real solutions out there that allow FF but don't make Dust into a cesspool of TK'ing. Rejecting those solutions based on your misguided ideas about how EVE works doesn't cut it.

You don't lose money when you die in Planetside 2. You do lose money in Dust and World of Tanks. That's what makes WoT a better example than Planetside 2. Death is a very temporary setback of, at most, ~20 seconds in Planetside 2, and nothing more. In Dust, dying can be very expensive. This is why comparing Dust to other FPS games is so useless. Some people who see you using an AUR weapon will kill you simply because they know you're more likely to get pissed off at that loss. They'll blow up your tank because they know those are also expensive. The fact that death matters, and everything is paid for (or so CCP likes to claim) is meant to be one of Dust's biggest draws. With unrestricted FF, it'd make it one of its biggest shortcomings.

All these people whining about "I don't want FF because I'll loose expensive gear and have no recourse to do anything about it. I want a safe FPS experience." make's me think some people are just too lazy, or not creative enough, to be able to cope with it in game. They want an automatic mechanic or a lazy button to get rid of the problem rather than putting in time and effort to coordinate a community response.



I want to win the match not spend all my time rounding up a community response. The other team gets an easy win because my team is too busy spawn camping a TK'er so he can't kill them.....awesome. Now that's something I would come back to do time and time again rather then go play any of the thousand other games in existence.

If your team would be spawn camping a TKer then your team would deserve to loose. It's easy to have a TKer considered a shoot on sight target just like any other enemy soldier. If that's too hard, then maybe another game is in your future should FF ever be brought to pub matches.

If one can't take the heat one should stay out of the fire. But knowing that there are fewer and fewer players with the maturity to accept their losses and move on... Make their game a living hell by organizing the community against them. If you're getting repeatedly TKed but insist on continuing to bring out the most expensive gear, then you deserve to loose it. But then if you're getting continuously TKed, I doubt it's only one person hunting you. Who did you pi$$ off to be so afraid of FF?

Enabling FF will not work and it will accomplish what CCP does not want, which is a lot of dedicated DUST players will rethink their priorities. It will be fine with me because I have plenty of games to play that are significantly better RPGs. RPGs that are not choked by the seven year plan of CCP. It will reconfirm my opinion of back shooters like you and the filth that haunt FPSs.

The goons will love it and DUST will become an unplayable mess.

May you be the first to die by Friendly Fire.

@Shijima Kuraimaru, you are below Kitten Scrapings.

Your intelligence shines like The Black Hole Of Wishful Thinking.

New Berries come in shooting, today.

They purposefully shoot Blues in the back, today.

They have since the Open Beta.

There are no other servers. There is the one universe and there is one virtual server. There are no self hosted versions with the option to enable FF or not. The Battle Finder is a minimalist solution. It has no options, no filters and Dog Nose when we will ever see any.

Enabling FF will not work and it will accomplish what CCP does not want, which is a lot of dedicated DUST players will rethink their priorities. It will be fine with me because I have plenty of games to play that are significantly better RPGs. RPGs that are not choked by the seven year plan of CCP. It will reconfirm my opinion of back shooters like you and the filth that haunt FPSs.

The goons will love it and DUST will become an unplayable mess.

May you be the first to die by Friendly Fire.

You've been making ridiculous posts one after another. So, you're saying that if I bring out expensive gear (because the other team has brought them out) and I'm trying to win......that I should stop when I'm getting trolled-TKed?? Well, what about the win??

And you don't have to be a jerk to get TKed. You could really just be wiping the floor with someone and now they're on your team for the payback. Or, maybe I could disagree with you on the forums and then you see me in game.

Have you ever played BF3? Have you ever been kicked by an admin? People are jerks...that's the way it is but CCP shouldn't enable them.

Having to spend REAL money is not a laughing matter.

TL;DR
I can team kill and be team killed, and have no penalty because i payed for the game and you didn't. How is that fair?

It's funny how every the carebears come in and start spreading the same FUD about griefing in every FPS forum. Yet I've never played an FPS which is ruined by FF - and every single FF mode is better then the one without. Us pro-FF players are not griefers, and there are plenty of reasons to desire FF as listed in the OP, and in numerous follow-ups by me and others.

No I haven't played BF3. I'm saying that if you're getting trolled and you keep bringing out the good gear while being trolled, then though you're having an unpleasant experience, it's still a problem between you and the troll. If FF comes in and I get trolled, I'll most likely shoot back and keep them in mind as a target for the rest of the match.

So what it comes down to is that you want to ruin the fun of those who want FF and a game that breaks away from the common ones in favor of keeping it fun for carebears and in line with other carebear friendly FPS games. That is your ultimate position right? It doesn't matter what direction it goes, there will always be jerks and someone's fun will always be runine, Can't be avoided.

What??? So, you think FF will greatly improve the gameplay of Dust??

The difference between FF in other shooters and Dust is that a death means nothing in other shooters but it means ISK and aur loss here. And people don't mind dying but to get TKed from a troll and lose that currency is NOT cool. And that's the sole reason why I'm against FF in Dust. It isn't cool to lose a dropsuit cause a blue want the hacking points. Or, because he feel like you shouldn't hack the CRU cause he wants to cap it.

FF isn't going to positively impact gameplay. There are other additions that CCP should implement like a good SP system, faster gameplay, faster player movements, more players per battle, etc. How can FF even compare to those when talking about improving gameplay?? Hell, even graphics ranks higher than adding FF. In terms of impacting gameplay, FF ranks with adding debris flying in the air.