Ready to TK and grief with no remorse or risk.

Friendly fire done as thoughtlessly as the OP suggests it might would be a terrible idea. Here's how you do FF:

1) If you damage a friendly, you are fined an ISK/SP penalty based on the amount of damage you do. The penalty grows larger the more damage you do in a short period of time. One stray shot isn't a big deal, but unloading into a friendly would be heavily penalized. Similarly, if the game could track whether the friendly target shot were near an enemy target, and increase the penalty if the friendly was not (so as to differentiate accidents from malicious acts better) that'd be helpful.

1a) The exception to this is that, people in your corp, people in your pre-made squad, they do not cause you to be penalized as all if you shoot them. You can always leave your squad/corp if you started getting maliciously teamkilled by your "friends". So for corp battles, for example, there'd be friendly fire, but there'd never be penalties for it beyond what the corp works out for itself, should one of its members start going rogue.

2) If you kill a friendly, you are fined the cost of their fitting/vehicle on top of other expenses.

3) If any character on any of your accounts kills more than two or three friendlies a game, or deal X amount of damage, you become designated as a teamkiller. That is, you'll show up with a special chevron rather than regular blue or red one -- perhaps a purple chevron to split the difference. The status will persist for 30 minutes, through multiple games. When so designated, anyone in the game, on your team or the other, can kill you without repercussion.

4) If you are designated as a team killer more than X times in Y period of time on any of your accounts, you get banned for 1 day. If after that ban expires you again become designated as a teamkiller, you get banned for 3 days. Then 7, then 15, then 30. After, if you get designated as a teamkiller again, your account is permanently terminated and all your characters are deleted. I assume that the PS3 is able to ban by machine, so that's what it'd end up as.


Without meaningful punishment for TK'ing that prevents alt PSN accounts being used to just go wild with friendly fire teamkilling, FF would be a bad addition to the game, and you'd routinely have to deal with people abusing friendly fire. The only way to make friendly fire work for a free game like this is to put access to the game at jeopardy for people should they abuse the system.

So Friendly Fire is finally coming to Dust. It's not something we should be concerned about.

Note that the exact way it is introduced has not been outlined yet, AFAIK. I hope it will be always on, but it might be on in Corp battles and nullsec only. Any WP/SP/ISK penalties (if any) has not been released, either, and I'd prefer to keep that discussion on another thread.

Here why we should welcome FF:

• Friendly Fire promotes more deliberate gameplay, and discourages spray-and-pray since you can't shoot everything that moves
• You will not get TKd all the time. I only play FF modes in FPSs, and I suffer a non-accidental TK perhaps every ten game sessions, and see them rarely
• Griefing happens. CCP might include Vote-To-Kick, which is in most FPSs. I'm ambivalent; it does help dealing with dicks, although is wide open to abuse by organized squads and corps VTKing people they don't like or if they want to make room for corpmates. VTK also doesn't fit EVE universe.
• Accidents happen to you and your teammates. L2P and HTFU; or better yet, laugh about it. Some of the funniest FPS memories I have are of TKs. Like that one time in TO:AOT I threw a grenade which bounced off a ceiling beam right in the middle of my team following me, killing four of them. I didn't even get votekicked, everyone was laughing so hard - this is on pub. Or that other time a teammate popped their head right in the center of my sights as I squeezed the trigger on my sniper rifle. Pop goes the head. Good times.
• TK is a perfectly valid and necessary tactic for corp spies, infiltrators, and assassins. In fact, it will allow for whole new avenues for gameplay we haven't seen in FPSs if CCP has the balls to introduce such contracts.
• TK is a perfectly valid way to deal with AFKers in some games. Not sure if there's a use for it in Dust since you have unlimited spawns and don't get dropped if you don't spawn since you're AFK.
• And the most important lesson from my EVE days: if you can't afford to lose it, don't use it. It being a dropsuit or gear.

Friendly fire done as thoughtlessly as the OP suggests it might would be a terrible idea. Here's how you do FF:

1) If you damage a friendly, you are fined an ISK/SP penalty based on the amount of damage you do. The penalty grows larger the more damage you do in a short period of time. One stray shot isn't a big deal, but unloading into a friendly would be heavily penalized. Similarly, if the game could track whether the friendly target shot were near an enemy target, and increase the penalty if the friendly was not (so as to differentiate accidents from malicious acts better) that'd be helpful.

1a) The exception to this is that, people in your corp, people in your pre-made squad, they do not cause you to be penalized as all if you shoot them. You can always leave your squad/corp if you started getting maliciously teamkilled by your "friends". So for corp battles, for example, there'd be friendly fire, but there'd never be penalties for it beyond what the corp works out for itself, should one of its members start going rogue.

2) If you kill a friendly, you are fined the cost of their fitting/vehicle on top of other expenses.

3) If any character on any of your accounts kills more than two or three friendlies a game, or deal X amount of damage, you become designated as a teamkiller. That is, you'll show up with a special chevron rather than regular blue or red one -- perhaps a purple chevron to split the difference. The status will persist for 30 minutes, through multiple games. When so designated, anyone in the game, on your team or the other, can kill you without repercussion.

4) If you are designated as a team killer more than X times in Y period of time on any of your accounts, you get banned for 1 day. If after that ban expires you again become designated as a teamkiller, you get banned for 3 days. Then 7, then 15, then 30. After, if you get designated as a teamkiller again, your account is permanently terminated and all your characters are deleted. I assume that the PS3 is able to ban by machine, so that's what it'd end up as.


Without meaningful punishment for TK'ing that prevents alt PSN accounts being used to just go wild with friendly fire teamkilling, FF would be a bad addition to the game, and you'd routinely have to deal with people abusing friendly fire. The only way to make friendly fire work for a free game like this is to put access to the game at jeopardy for people should they abuse the system.

#4 Sounds ridiculous for New Eden but I like the other suggestions.

Friendly fire done as thoughtlessly as the OP suggests it might would be a terrible idea. Here's how you do FF:

1) If you damage a friendly, you are fined an ISK/SP penalty based on the amount of damage you do. The penalty grows larger the more damage you do in a short period of time. One stray shot isn't a big deal, but unloading into a friendly would be heavily penalized. Similarly, if the game could track whether the friendly target shot were near an enemy target, and increase the penalty if the friendly was not (so as to differentiate accidents from malicious acts better) that'd be helpful.

1a) The exception to this is that, people in your corp, people in your pre-made squad, they do not cause you to be penalized as all if you shoot them. You can always leave your squad/corp if you started getting maliciously teamkilled by your "friends". So for corp battles, for example, there'd be friendly fire, but there'd never be penalties for it beyond what the corp works out for itself, should one of its members start going rogue.

2) If you kill a friendly, you are fined the cost of their fitting/vehicle on top of other expenses.

3) If any character on any of your accounts kills more than two or three friendlies a game, or deal X amount of damage, you become designated as a teamkiller. That is, you'll show up with a special chevron rather than regular blue or red one -- perhaps a purple chevron to split the difference. The status will persist for 30 minutes, through multiple games. When so designated, anyone in the game, on your team or the other, can kill you without repercussion.

4) If you are designated as a team killer more than X times in Y period of time on any of your accounts, you get banned for 1 day. If after that ban expires you again become designated as a teamkiller, you get banned for 3 days. Then 7, then 15, then 30. After, if you get designated as a teamkiller again, your account is permanently terminated and all your characters are deleted. I assume that the PS3 is able to ban by machine, so that's what it'd end up as.


Without meaningful punishment for TK'ing that prevents alt PSN accounts being used to just go wild with friendly fire teamkilling, FF would be a bad addition to the game, and you'd routinely have to deal with people abusing friendly fire. The only way to make friendly fire work for a free game like this is to put access to the game at jeopardy for people should they abuse the system.

I'm usually not but I am going to be hostile as this thread demands it......

But this is the dumbest thing to hit the game since the daily cap.

1. "discourages spray-and-pray"?? You know what discourages spray and pray?.....An enemy that can shoot!! This is by far the most ridiculous reason to implement TKing. Do you think that someone who's spraying and praying cares who they are killing? They are spraying for a reason...think about it.

2. "VTK"? Really?? Smart trollers will only TK bluedots or better yet...leave the squad and create their own so they can't be VTKed. Not to mention....one intentional TK is one too many. I don't want to lose one proto suit to a dik that's just out for kicks.

3. If some of your best moments are TKing, then you are the sort of player that makes TKing intolerable. I don't understand why anyone would include friendly fire to increase gameplay satisfaction. I mean, what kind of player needs that? CCP can do better by increasing gameplay movements and faster gameplay feel.

4. TKing is silly for infiltrators...because once you TK once, you are immediately getting kicked out of the corp.

5. And the dumbest reason of 'em all....."if you can't afford to lose it...." WTMF! I can have 500 proto suits and can afford to lose 400 of them but why would I want to LOSE ONE by an intentional teamkill??? I can be solo in a match with randoms and don proto gear to help get the win. To get trolled and intentionally shot in my proto suit is not cool and not something CCP should be implementing.

Friendly fire, again, is the dumbest idea to hit since the daily cap[/i][/b]

They do need to think about HOW FF is introduced, and I don't think it has a place (at least not in full function) in pub matches.

I've previously suggested that pub matches should only apply FF to splash damage, and possibly even at a reduced rate. Corp matches should have full FF on though. In situations where the battle MEANS something, there should be the added element of risk. Also, it lets the new players have a more familiar place to learn the ropes before jumping into "oops, I killed you" territory.

I also think that any repercussions should be limited to the specific battle in pub matches, and managed by the corp in corp battles.

A while back someone suggested that in hisec pub matches, weapons would not fire if a friendly would be hit. I really like this idea, though there was quite a bit of resistance from the "FF everywhere" crowd.

For splash damage, I think grenades, MD rounds, missiles, etc. should simply not detonate if there is a friendly within the blast radius.

This would teach players in these matches a more disciplined approach than indiscriminate spray-and-pray, or throwing grenades into mixed red+blue groups, while avoiding TKing.

friendly fire solve nothing and make only more problems

and to all sweet guys which like friendly fire ----wait till someone kill you and steal your 4 mill tank

in corp battle ok ,but otherwise no


we have enouth problems to solve ingame and not need new problems

So Friendly Fire is finally coming to Dust. It's not something we should be concerned about.

Note that the exact way it is introduced has not been outlined yet, AFAIK. I hope it will be always on, but it might be on in Corp battles and nullsec only. Any WP/SP/ISK penalties (if any) has not been released, either, and I'd prefer to keep that discussion on another thread.

Here why we should welcome FF:

• Friendly Fire promotes more deliberate gameplay, and discourages spray-and-pray since you can't shoot everything that moves
• You will not get TKd all the time. I only play FF modes in FPSs, and I suffer a non-accidental TK perhaps every ten game sessions, and see them rarely
• Griefing happens. CCP might include Vote-To-Kick, which is in most FPSs. I'm ambivalent; it does help dealing with dicks, although is wide open to abuse by organized squads and corps VTKing people they don't like or if they want to make room for corpmates. VTK also doesn't fit EVE universe.
• Accidents happen to you and your teammates. L2P and HTFU; or better yet, laugh about it. Some of the funniest FPS memories I have are of TKs. Like that one time in TO:AOT I threw a grenade which bounced off a ceiling beam right in the middle of my team following me, killing four of them. I didn't even get votekicked, everyone was laughing so hard - this is on pub. Or that other time a teammate popped their head right in the center of my sights as I squeezed the trigger on my sniper rifle. Pop goes the head. Good times.
• TK is a perfectly valid and necessary tactic for corp spies, infiltrators, and assassins. In fact, it will allow for whole new avenues for gameplay we haven't seen in FPSs if CCP has the balls to introduce such contracts.
• TK is a perfectly valid way to deal with AFKers in some games. Not sure if there's a use for it in Dust since you have unlimited spawns and don't get dropped if you don't spawn since you're AFK.
• FF belongs in the ruthless EVE universe where every action has lasting repercussions. This is not your carebear FPS where death has no impact. [late addition to the list]
• And the most important lesson from my EVE days: if you can't afford to lose it, don't use it. It being a dropsuit or gear.

Put in a penalty for 100k ISK to the party you killed. If you run out of money you get ejected from the match.


As far as accidents, or suicides by running into your fire- well, check your background and exercise trigger control.

[quote=Road Hawk]friendly fire solve nothing and make only more problems



I don't see any problems. I've stolen blueberry tanks, and had them stolen as well. Don't use it if you can't afford to lose it.

FF would slow down all of the lone wolf spray and pray COD kiddos who run around like tards and screw up the matches for everyone actually playing the squad based shooter that Dust is designed to be.

Banning for multiple team kills? No. That's not the New Eden experience. Go play another game.

Will there be griefing? Yes. It's inevitable. Happens in most games, but with FF there will be a recourse to retaliate.

Dust is not EvE. In EvE teamkilling gets expensive. Lets say you have 5 HACs in your fleet and then a teamkiller joins you. That's fine... think he can take you all? Hell no. Particularly not in his militia gear / Ibis. If he has a command ship he might take one of you down... but not all... and it'll be expensive. In DUST, I could wipe out my entire team in a random battle before anyone could do anything about it. It's not the same thing at all. Friendly fire is fine in a public match if two features are present: The ability to boot someone on your team who kills you from the match, AND the ability to block them from joining you in future public matches. If CCP doesn't do both of those things, I will personally guarantee you I will teamkill the hell out of this game until they change their minds. ...because if I can't have fun I'll see to it no one can There will be no HTFU. There will be only me destroying spawn points and when they are all gone camping my own MCV. You'll be dead before you hit the ground.

And the griefer with a full BPO suit will dance and laugh as you chase him around the map for killing your proto suit or stealing your Sagaris only to run it into the red zone.

It's attention and tears that they crave and your attempts at retaliation will just fuel their desires.