Drop the damage from 400hp to 200hp.
Five second timer or cook it.

A match I played on Ambush:
There were five.....yep five!! nanohives on the rail structure thats high up and there were seven! nanohives in the crowsnest!!

The game was full of no gungame grenade tossers.
And so it went for many hours match after match.

I noticed a lot of Dust veterans doing the same.....sigh.
I was Roflcopter about all the good players turned into no gungame grenade tossing bitches.

I was very surprised at the amount of players willing to debase themselves if they can get a kill thats cheap and easy...LOL!!

Now I am torn by the moral dilemma of either not using any grenades as a form of protest against this broken game or saying theres that grenade tossing *****!! and then killing them with grenades.

I got mail from a few users that killed me with grenades telling me to get gud but hey!!! then when I in turn KILL THEM WITH GRENADES??

I get hate mail!!

Every individual needs revolution, inner division, overthrow of the existing order, and renewal, but not by forcing them upon his neighbors under the hypocritical cloak of saying that grenade kills take skill.

Am I wrong to derive great pleasure from gunning down grenade tossing bitches like dogs in a street??

That was not my intention. My thought is that it would just be like R2 quick swap for weapons.....only make it cycle from nades to equipment....if you have no equipment on or no slots for one then it would just bring up a nade if you have any left and then allow you to throw it by pressing R1. This would also cause there to be a delay between pulling up nades....using them....and then pulling back up your weapon. Thus making it not very practical for panic nading.

I think that may be extreme just knock it down to 300/400/500 for militia/std - Proto

200 militia 300 standard 400 advanced and 500 proto?

The damage is fine as is. It's never been a problem. The only problem is that you can hit the button, and it pretty much instantly explodes. That's literally the only problem >_<

Grenade damage??
Hmmm my heavy is 140 shields and 850 armor and yet a single militia grenade does a OHK??

Maybe you should dicuss my OP based upon the merits instead of your inherent bias towards the Imperfects. I was very specific in what i was concerned about and am open to hearing all side. If you believe the is no issues with this, then state that and support your arguement. Sadly, I dont see any support for your assertion that either way. Instead there is simply a lecture about imperfects. its true we are abrasive trolls but that doesn't discount our opinions or points regardless how much hatred one has for us.

That truth of the matter if we test every weapon and every fit over and over. We even keep track of each builds statistical data to watch how ccp moves things. We are even test everything in practices to determine actual range of weapons, where fall off begings, and true radius damage of nades and MD. I am personally running 5 alts this build to test everything I can. if you didn't notice either I stated I die because of me and NOT gear this is the same mentality that Imperfects have. We believe you can't nerf skill regardless of how hard ccp is trying too.

I doubt any other corp has been as thurogh as we have in this matter. When changes were made to the nades last build we had 10 weeks of sp and it wasn't an issue and hardly noticed especially me since I didn't play much after new build. It's quite obvious with the skill point reset that nades have added value and that the nade spamming has become prolific because of effectiveness. If you can't discuss theat then plesae just troll and leave the lectures as no one gives a fk its the internet and we aren't going to change for it.

also I have no idea what you are talking about refering to grenade conversation in irc. I like everyone else stay logged in 24/7 but never remember a nade discussion. Sadly I have missed many important conversation simply because they occur at 2 am my time.

Drop the damage from 400hp to 200hp.
Five second timer or cook it.

A match I played on Ambush:
There were five.....yep five!! nanohives on the rail structure thats high up and there were seven! nanohives in the crowsnest!!

The game was full of no gungame grenade tossers.
And so it went for many hours match after match.

I noticed a lot of Dust veterans doing the same.....sigh.
I was Roflcopter about all the good players turned into no gungame grenade tossing bitches.

I was very surprised at the amount of players willing to debase themselves if they can get a kill thats cheap and easy...LOL!!

Now I am torn by the moral dilemma of either not using any grenades as a form of protest against this broken game or saying theres that grenade tossing *****!! and then killing them with grenades.

I got mail from a few users that killed me with grenades telling me to get gud but hey!!! then when I in turn KILL THEM WITH GRENADES??

I get hate mail!!

Every individual needs revolution, inner division, overthrow of the existing order, and renewal, but not by forcing them upon his neighbors under the hypocritical cloak of saying that grenade kills take skill.

Am I wrong to derive great pleasure from gunning down grenade tossing bitches like dogs in a street??

Yeah, I have unwittingly trained my mind now to throw nades as a first and last resort. I think I have thrown more nades recently than the entire lifetime I have been in the beta.

If they bring back the old mechanics (meaning there was a set-in-stone timer as soon as you pulled the pin) then that is probably all that is needed. Before the new nades, it was a skill to be able to cook a nade just right and get an awesome kill. Now all you have to do is land them near an enemy and they are toast.

The timer activating when it hits the ground is really the only issue with nades currently (well the throwing arc is kinda lame too). I love impact nades as much as the next guy, but I do agree these are pretty cheap. We should still have impact nades in the game, but they should be special (and be true impact nades).

Yeah, I have unwittingly trained my mind now to throw nades as a first and last resort. I think I have thrown more nades recently than the entire lifetime I have been in the beta.

If they bring back the old mechanics (meaning there was a set-in-stone timer as soon as you pulled the pin) then that is probably all that is needed. Before the new nades, it was a skill to be able to cook a nade just right and get an awesome kill. Now all you have to do is land them near an enemy and they are toast.

The timer activating when it hits the ground is really the only issue with nades currently (well the throwing arc is kinda lame too). I love impact nades as much as the next guy, but I do agree these are pretty cheap. We should still have impact nades in the game, but they should be special (and be true impact nades).

Where is the justification for a 2 second timer? It was unwarranted and takes away from gameplay.

Justification stims from all of the defense toward the 'Cavity' Thukker Grenade way back in the day when we were all crying out nerf - which they nerfed the **** out of (and rightfully so). However, now that there is a two second 'bounce' timer, a lot of the people who were defending the 'Cavity' are suddenly turning the tides on this new grenade system.

I honestly do not care either way. A grenade is a grenade. Should the damage be nerfed? No. Should the timer be nerfed? Maybe. I'm just irked because no-one can seem to make up their minds on anything and the first thing they do whenever something seems amiss (aka, it killed them more than once in a game) they automatically cry foul.

Cohesion and consistency is all this game is lacking.

Edit: That and the only reason anyone says -anything- about the game mechanics in Dust 514 is that the developers listen to the most vocal majority. Grenade spam in Battlefield 2 was insane (see Strike at Karkand) but no-one said anything because that's just the way things had always been.

Justification stims from all of the defense toward the 'Cavity' Thukker Grenade way back in the day when we were all crying out nerf - which they nerfed the **** out of (and rightfully so). However, now that there is a two second 'bounce' timer, a lot of the people who were defending the 'Cavity' are suddenly turning the tides on this new grenade system.

I honestly do not care either way. A grenade is a grenade. Should the damage be nerfed? No. Should the timer be nerfed? Maybe. I'm just irked because no-one can seem to make up their minds on anything and the first thing they do whenever something seems amiss (aka, it killed them more than once in a game) they automatically cry foul.

Cohesion and consistency is all this game is lacking.

Edit: That and the only reason anyone says -anything- about the game mechanics in Dust 514 is that the developers listen to the most vocal majority. Grenade spam in Battlefield 2 was insane (see Strike at Karkand) but no-one said anything because that's just the way things had always been.

Justification stims from all of the defense toward the 'Cavity' Thukker Grenade way back in the day when we were all crying out nerf - which they nerfed the **** out of (and rightfully so). However, now that there is a two second 'bounce' timer, a lot of the people who were defending the 'Cavity' are suddenly turning the tides on this new grenade system.

I honestly do not care either way. A grenade is a grenade. Should the damage be nerfed? No. Should the timer be nerfed? Maybe. I'm just irked because no-one can seem to make up their minds on anything and the first thing they do whenever something seems amiss (aka, it killed them more than once in a game) they automatically cry foul.

Cohesion and consistency is all this game is lacking.

Edit: That and the only reason anyone says -anything- about the game mechanics in Dust 514 is that the developers listen to the most vocal majority. Grenade spam in Battlefield 2 was insane (see Strike at Karkand) but no-one said anything because that's just the way things had always been.

I spoke out against thukkers spefically because they were just like REs as nades are now. the fact that they were aurum only masked the true issue which we face now. Some people asked for thukkers for isk I remember no thread that said there should be 2 second timers on milita grenades.

nades have not be nerfed in proportion to what ehp of suits have so in essense nades even milita have had damage boosts over last 6 months.

Ths biggest issue is as a community we say this is broke or nerf this but we dont say how. Sadly, ccp never discusses it with us and we hardly ever been told they are making changes to stuff. When did we find out about the 2 second timer change? patch notes like a few days before.

its why when I bring up concerns I offer solutions and ask for solutions. Sadly, even if we offer solid solution ccp will never tell us or discuss with us changes before we get patch notes.

grenades should be good, if you have prototype and such. the issue is why would anyone use anything other than the free gernades when they allready kill everything in one hit? Why use flux grenades?

I also think there should be mods that reduce explosive damage.

But yes, the free grenades shouldn't one shot everything. Look at halo, you can throw grenades all the time, but they aren't a super weapon that is unstoppable. Unless you equip the right gear to boost their effect. I don't think they should become duds when you die, that's half of the fun of them.

but like today in a match I blindly threw a grenade and got 4 kills. Maybe the AOE damage should fall off quicker? So they do full damage if your standing on it, but if your 2 feet away it doesn't kill you?

Here's a possible solution or at least a means to find an adequate solution. Make DMG 350 and change timer to 3.5 seconds then keep it that way for a week or so if. If people still perceive a problem then decrees DMG another 50 and increase timer another .5 seconds. That way an output DMG and time will eventually be found. Or CCP can just listen to all the crying and make grenades completely useless like they did with missiles. Do you people want that to happen? Because it will if this continues, grenades will be completely ineffective and be nothing more than smoke bombs with no smoke. It happened to missiles and I can see it happening to grenades next.

I pray they do nothing but change the timer. I can throw a nade in the air it won't blow for 5-6 seconds - I throw it on the ground it blows in 2. I just want it to make sense - don't touch the damage yet

As with everything I think the BEST solution can be achieved with the help of the skill system. Instead of messing with timer and damage, why not just introduce skill variables that affect the speed at which a grenade is drawn/thrown and the accuracy of the throw? That way people can still use the same militia grenades they use now but without the skills it takes them longer to get the grenade ready to throw and when they do throw it it looks like one of those limp armed pitches that don't make it to the plate. That could possibly solve some of the problems were seeing now.

Solutions like these are not solutions. All this would do is delay the time before the problem with grenades becomes very obvious. Something has to actually be done to change the way grenades work. Screwing with skills to make people need to spend a few SP to get bullshit grenades doesn't fix anything.