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Logi Bro
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
836
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Posted - 2012.09.17 02:18:00 -
[61] - Quote
Why is everyone finding every possible argument against this guy? He stated a simple opinion of his, and everyone jumped on him for it. Sniping IS a little bit over the top right now, especially in the rocky open map where CCP seemed to forget the importance of cover. IF this was the exact same comment as about 500 previous threads (like the tank discussions have been) then you people would have justified grounds for your hate, but seriously these forums are for opinions, and not everyone will share your opinion, and if they don't, then give a legitimate excuse for why his suggestion is or is not valid. |
Jane DeArc
Militaires Sans Jeux
87
|
Posted - 2012.09.17 02:19:00 -
[62] - Quote
STB Vermaak Doe wrote:One shotting people with a infinite range weapon doesn't require any skill. Just look at cod (and bf3 for me!)
The Sniper Rifles have range, and in order to do counter-sniping you HAVE to invest in Light Weapon Sharpshooter and Light Weapon Sharpshooter Proficiency in order to get the range bonuses.
The biggest issue people have is that there is no recourse with being killed in one shot, and it sucks.
Unfortunately, when it's a sniper's job to hit you in the brains to begin with, there's not much to be done. |
Jane DeArc
Militaires Sans Jeux
87
|
Posted - 2012.09.17 02:20:00 -
[63] - Quote
Logi Bro wrote:Why is everyone finding every possible argument against this guy? He stated a simple opinion of his, and everyone jumped on him for it. Sniping IS a little bit over the top right now, especially in the rocky open map where CCP seemed to forget the importance of cover. IF this was the exact same comment as about 500 previous threads (like the tank discussions have been) then you people would have justified grounds for your hate, but seriously these forums are for opinions, and not everyone will share your opinion, and if they don't, then give a legitimate excuse for why his suggestion is or is not valid.
Look at his first post. He posted an opinion and immediately started talking nerf. His freaking thread title implies that sniping/sniper rifles are op.
Our issue is that he keeps hopping points when people show him he's wrong, and he just wants to down something publicly without giving any evidence as to why it legitimately deserves it. |
STB Vermaak Doe
558
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Posted - 2012.09.17 02:20:00 -
[64] - Quote
Jin Robot wrote:STB Vermaak Doe wrote:Jane DeArc wrote:STB Vermaak Doe wrote:I'm complaining because the risk/sp required is a lot lower than the reward you get through sniping. So far while sniping, every match i get about 15+ kills to about 0-3 deaths using a very unskilled method Your complaint indicates that there are not enough people killing snipers, because you haven't provided an argument that indicates WHY their weapons are overpowered. So...nerf sniper players, not their weapons? Actually it's still the weapon because i shouldn't be getting that many kills with so little sp on mainly type 2 suits especially considering i don't purposefully aim for the head So that has nothing to do with the fact that ppl have weak shields armor? Or are you saying sniper rifles do more damage then the stats? You should have more armor/shields than the 220 damage my rifle does. I aim for the head, because thats what snipers do
Oh we have a sniper in the room show me your marksman medals.
Seriously there shouldn't be such a gap in headshot damage boost.
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Jane DeArc
Militaires Sans Jeux
87
|
Posted - 2012.09.17 02:22:00 -
[65] - Quote
STB Vermaak Doe wrote:The risk using any other weapon is a lot higher being that you have to get close and don't even compared the charge rifle to a forge as it is more percise, has more range, and is easier to aim than the forge Confirmed for never having used a forge gun.
Forge gun sniping is even more reliable for kills than regular sniping since most low-quality snipers are standing/crouching still anyway. |
STB Vermaak Doe
558
|
Posted - 2012.09.17 02:23:00 -
[66] - Quote
Jane DeArc wrote:Logi Bro wrote:Why is everyone finding every possible argument against this guy? He stated a simple opinion of his, and everyone jumped on him for it. Sniping IS a little bit over the top right now, especially in the rocky open map where CCP seemed to forget the importance of cover. IF this was the exact same comment as about 500 previous threads (like the tank discussions have been) then you people would have justified grounds for your hate, but seriously these forums are for opinions, and not everyone will share your opinion, and if they don't, then give a legitimate excuse for why his suggestion is or is not valid. Look at his first post. He posted an opinion and immediately started talking nerf. His freaking thread title implies that sniping/sniper rifles are op. Our issue is that he keeps hopping points when people show him he's wrong, and he just wants to down something publicly without giving any evidence as to why it legitimately deserves it.
I didn't say nerf i simply gave ways to improve the weapon |
Jin Robot
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
330
|
Posted - 2012.09.17 02:24:00 -
[67] - Quote
Sleepy Zan wrote:Chew B0CCA wrote:I just went 20-3 with an AR. Nerf 'em.
Before that I went 17-2 with a shotty. Nerf 'em.
Before that I went 19-4 with a forge gun. Nerf 'em.
Let's just nerf everything because (I count, what, 6 people on this thread who are against?) because 6 people don't like them. Maybe it's 7. Yeah, that seems right. Let's do what 7 people (out of 1000?) want to do. Brilliant.
Its hilarious, because we have all these nerf threads, but they're usually the same 7 or 8 people within the respective thread complaining. Get over yourselves. Yes, there are areas of the game that require less skill than others. Deal with it. Stop whining. I kill snipers all the time with an AR. I kill snipers with a sniper rifle. It's not that hard. How many people are actually getting killed by a sniper while they're playing an assault? If you are, you're doing it wrong. Sniping is way to easy in this build the only thing holding it back at the moment is lag and hit detection, once that is gone and people get a little better everyone will be running around with snipers like they are ARs. I see plenty of assaults getting killed by a sniper and when lag is low strafing and running is useless 2 back to back shots at the most with a good rifle you are dead. Sorry but when the other noob snipers get better and servers are stable assault rifles will be meaningless . Dude.... Keep your ridiculous argument a little less ridiculous. AR will be pointless? Lol tipping your hand again guys. If you make your points blatantly ridiculous ppl will see through to your real motivation. |
Sleepy Zan
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2048
|
Posted - 2012.09.17 02:25:00 -
[68] - Quote
Jin Robot wrote:Sleepy zan is skilled and wants to make sniping impossible for average players, I get it. So who is skilled at shotty, come on make the op thread. I know plenty of people who are average snipers, you ppl and you leet crap. Why are snipers op? Because they deal more damage than AR? The argument that you can hipshot ppl chasing you is dumb. That has more to do with your skill and nothing to do with a sniper rifle.
I sucked with snipers when I first started out with them and I never used them in any previous game I played and now I already have people calling me a leet sniper? I want people to get good and expect them to, I don't want to hold people back and stop progression. Please don't pretend to know my intentions. Snipers are over powered at the moment that is a fact. |
STB Vermaak Doe
558
|
Posted - 2012.09.17 02:25:00 -
[69] - Quote
Jane DeArc wrote:STB Vermaak Doe wrote:The risk using any other weapon is a lot higher being that you have to get close and don't even compared the charge rifle to a forge as it is more percise, has more range, and is easier to aim than the forge Confirmed for never having used a forge gun. Forge gun sniping is even more reliable for kills than regular sniping since most low-quality snipers are standing/crouching still anyway.
Never used a forge? Thats why my forge is at level 4 it doesn't have the reliability for long range kills and sitting still would be your own fault |
STB Vermaak Doe
558
|
Posted - 2012.09.17 02:27:00 -
[70] - Quote
Logi Bro wrote:Why is everyone finding every possible argument against this guy? He stated a simple opinion of his, and everyone jumped on him for it. Sniping IS a little bit over the top right now, especially in the rocky open map where CCP seemed to forget the importance of cover. IF this was the exact same comment as about 500 previous threads (like the tank discussions have been) then you people would have justified grounds for your hate, but seriously these forums are for opinions, and not everyone will share your opinion, and if they don't, then give a legitimate excuse for why his suggestion is or is not valid.
Logi bro to a part time heavy's rescue! Switches to agro and dual wields hmgs |
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Jin Robot
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
330
|
Posted - 2012.09.17 02:27:00 -
[71] - Quote
STB Vermaak Doe wrote:Jin Robot wrote:STB Vermaak Doe wrote:Jane DeArc wrote:STB Vermaak Doe wrote:I'm complaining because the risk/sp required is a lot lower than the reward you get through sniping. So far while sniping, every match i get about 15+ kills to about 0-3 deaths using a very unskilled method Your complaint indicates that there are not enough people killing snipers, because you haven't provided an argument that indicates WHY their weapons are overpowered. So...nerf sniper players, not their weapons? Actually it's still the weapon because i shouldn't be getting that many kills with so little sp on mainly type 2 suits especially considering i don't purposefully aim for the head So that has nothing to do with the fact that ppl have weak shields armor? Or are you saying sniper rifles do more damage then the stats? You should have more armor/shields than the 220 damage my rifle does. I aim for the head, because thats what snipers do Oh we have a sniper in the room show me your marksman medals. Seriously there shouldn't be such a gap in headshot damage boost. Haha, dude you said you didnt aim for the head, we really have you twisted around, huh? |
Sleepy Zan
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2048
|
Posted - 2012.09.17 02:33:00 -
[72] - Quote
Jin Robot wrote:Sleepy Zan wrote:Chew B0CCA wrote:I just went 20-3 with an AR. Nerf 'em.
Before that I went 17-2 with a shotty. Nerf 'em.
Before that I went 19-4 with a forge gun. Nerf 'em.
Let's just nerf everything because (I count, what, 6 people on this thread who are against?) because 6 people don't like them. Maybe it's 7. Yeah, that seems right. Let's do what 7 people (out of 1000?) want to do. Brilliant.
Its hilarious, because we have all these nerf threads, but they're usually the same 7 or 8 people within the respective thread complaining. Get over yourselves. Yes, there are areas of the game that require less skill than others. Deal with it. Stop whining. I kill snipers all the time with an AR. I kill snipers with a sniper rifle. It's not that hard. How many people are actually getting killed by a sniper while they're playing an assault? If you are, you're doing it wrong. Sniping is way to easy in this build the only thing holding it back at the moment is lag and hit detection, once that is gone and people get a little better everyone will be running around with snipers like they are ARs. I see plenty of assaults getting killed by a sniper and when lag is low strafing and running is useless 2 back to back shots at the most with a good rifle you are dead. Sorry but when the other noob snipers get better and servers are stable assault rifles will be meaningless . Dude.... Keep your ridiculous argument a little less ridiculous. AR will be pointless? Lol tipping your hand again guys. If you make your points blatantly ridiculous ppl will see through to your real motivation.
If I see someone with an AR coming at me and all I have to do is one shot qs them there is a problem. |
Jin Robot
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
330
|
Posted - 2012.09.17 02:33:00 -
[73] - Quote
Sleepy Zan wrote:Jin Robot wrote:Sleepy zan is skilled and wants to make sniping impossible for average players, I get it. So who is skilled at shotty, come on make the op thread. I know plenty of people who are average snipers, you ppl and you leet crap. Why are snipers op? Because they deal more damage than AR? The argument that you can hipshot ppl chasing you is dumb. That has more to do with your skill and nothing to do with a sniper rifle. I sucked with snipers when I first started out with them and I never used them in any previous game I played and now I already have people calling me a leet sniper? I want people to get good and expect them to, I don't want to hold people back and stop progression. Please don't pretend to know my intentions. Snipers are over powered at the moment that is a fact. If I see someone with an AR coming at me and all I have to do is one shot qs them there is a problem. Quick scoping is not a trait linked to sniper rifles. Why do you keep using that as a reason for a nerf. Its a skill thing. Do you want CCP to install a 4 sec delay on scopes? |
STB Vermaak Doe
558
|
Posted - 2012.09.17 02:34:00 -
[74] - Quote
I don't try to hit the head but it happens |
Sleepy Zan
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2048
|
Posted - 2012.09.17 02:36:00 -
[75] - Quote
Jin Robot wrote:Sleepy Zan wrote:Jin Robot wrote:Sleepy zan is skilled and wants to make sniping impossible for average players, I get it. So who is skilled at shotty, come on make the op thread. I know plenty of people who are average snipers, you ppl and you leet crap. Why are snipers op? Because they deal more damage than AR? The argument that you can hipshot ppl chasing you is dumb. That has more to do with your skill and nothing to do with a sniper rifle. I sucked with snipers when I first started out with them and I never used them in any previous game I played and now I already have people calling me a leet sniper? I want people to get good and expect them to, I don't want to hold people back and stop progression. Please don't pretend to know my intentions. Snipers are over powered at the moment that is a fact. If I see someone with an AR coming at me and all I have to do is one shot qs them there is a problem. Quick scoping is not a trait linked to sniper rifles. Why do you keep using that as a reason for a nerf. Its a skill thing. Do you want CCP to install a 4 sec delay on scopes?
fine you win keep them the way they are we will see whos right. if I have just been just talkin out my ass this entire time I'm sorry |
Jin Robot
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
330
|
Posted - 2012.09.17 02:39:00 -
[76] - Quote
I am done with this thread, but I will leave it with two words that I think defines your points.
INVALID FIT |
STB Vermaak Doe
558
|
Posted - 2012.09.17 02:47:00 -
[77] - Quote
Jin Robot wrote:I am done with this thread, but I will leave it with two words that I think defines your points.
INVALID FIT
Let me describe what you type
HIT DETECTION |
Jin Robot
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
330
|
Posted - 2012.09.17 02:53:00 -
[78] - Quote
STB Vermaak Doe wrote:Jin Robot wrote:I am done with this thread, but I will leave it with two words that I think defines your points.
INVALID FIT Let me describe what you type HIT DETECTION Okay I will come back in to agree with you, CCP should nerf/adjust sniper rifles because of hit detection. It makes perfect sense now. |
STB Vermaak Doe
558
|
Posted - 2012.09.17 02:57:00 -
[79] - Quote
Jin Robot wrote:STB Vermaak Doe wrote:Jin Robot wrote:I am done with this thread, but I will leave it with two words that I think defines your points.
INVALID FIT Let me describe what you type HIT DETECTION Okay I will come back in to agree with you, CCP should nerf/adjust sniper rifles because of hit detection. It makes perfect sense now.
I'm not getting what you say as hit detection is mainly a problem in high rof weapons
Lol still on my thread? |
Jin Robot
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
330
|
Posted - 2012.09.17 03:08:00 -
[80] - Quote
STB Vermaak Doe wrote:Jin Robot wrote:STB Vermaak Doe wrote:Jin Robot wrote:I am done with this thread, but I will leave it with two words that I think defines your points.
INVALID FIT Let me describe what you type HIT DETECTION Okay I will come back in to agree with you, CCP should nerf/adjust sniper rifles because of hit detection. It makes perfect sense now. I'm not getting what you say as hit detection is mainly a problem in high rof weapons Lol still on my thread? I wish I could quit you...
But seriously, I hope you know I am just a passionate person. My arguments can be sharpish, but nothing personal man. I respect your opinion..... I just think its wrong. |
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STB Vermaak Doe
558
|
Posted - 2012.09.17 03:09:00 -
[81] - Quote
Jin Robot wrote:STB Vermaak Doe wrote:Jin Robot wrote:STB Vermaak Doe wrote:Jin Robot wrote:I am done with this thread, but I will leave it with two words that I think defines your points.
INVALID FIT Let me describe what you type HIT DETECTION Okay I will come back in to agree with you, CCP should nerf/adjust sniper rifles because of hit detection. It makes perfect sense now. I'm not getting what you say as hit detection is mainly a problem in high rof weapons Lol still on my thread? I wish I could quit you... But seriously, I hope you know I am just a passionate person. My arguments can be sharpish, but nothing personal man. I respect your opinion..... I just think its wrong.
I honestly respect you not quitting |
Sleepy Zan
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2048
|
Posted - 2012.09.17 03:11:00 -
[82] - Quote
he outlasted me i'm done with forums for the night +1 |
Jane DeArc
Militaires Sans Jeux
87
|
Posted - 2012.09.17 03:12:00 -
[83] - Quote
STB Vermaak Doe wrote:I didn't say nerf i simply gave ways to improve the weapon Your first post suggest ways to negatively impact performance to make it more balanced as you see fit. You claim them OP, and thus that they need to be powered down a bit.
How the kitten do you define a nerf? |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
775
|
Posted - 2012.09.17 03:12:00 -
[84] - Quote
Chew B0CCA wrote:Sleepy Zan wrote:Vexen86 wrote:ok, i may have read that wrong but your saying that you went x-0 but yet your complaining because its OP? I dont see anyone complaining that they are OP cuz they get a good k/d ratio. I switch back and forth between all dropsuits and usually manage to get at least five kills minimum.
Snipers aren't OP, if you think about it Military Snipers are trained to one shot. If CCP is going to mimic real physics for the dropships then the Snipers are where they should be. Realisticly.....As far as tanks go they seem to be fair now. they were pretty strong last build but its leveled out now. not too hard to kill but not too easy neither. a good tank with a bunch of SP put into it will still decimate. I was in a militia tank and still got 6 kills before someone killed it. So somone has already said it......
Snipers are annoying, at best. Hard to get too but easy to kill. Skilled snipers are a little more difficult but still lack the shields and armor. If your getting killed as a sniper, throw your sniper rifle on a Frontline Assault. I just went 34/0 the match before a came back to these forums because all I had to do is quickscope everyone who came up the hill after me, they are OP. I just went 20-3 with an AR. Nerf 'em. Before that I went 17-2 with a shotty. Nerf 'em. Before that I went 19-4 with a forge gun. Nerf 'em. Let's just nerf everything because (I count, what, 6 people on this thread who are against?) because 6 people don't like them. Maybe it's 7. Yeah, that seems right. Let's do what 7 people (out of 1000?) want to do. Brilliant. Its hilarious, because we have all these nerf threads, but they're usually the same 7 or 8 people within the respective thread complaining. Get over yourselves. Yes, there are areas of the game that require less skill than others. Deal with it. Stop whining. I kill snipers all the time with an AR. I kill snipers with a sniper rifle. It's not that hard. How many people are actually getting killed by a sniper while they're playing an assault? If you are, you're doing it wrong.
+1
FAR too many threads where folks at the top of the game (in whatever area) show up and post as if they somehow represent a proper balance point. If you are a top ranked player you are not average and AVERAGE is where proper balance needs to focus. Things are only broken or imbalanced if anyone can pick it up and do better than the game wide average of other classes/methods. Or put another way something is OP'ed when the AVERAGE player can use it to dominate outside of it's proper battlefield role.
If you're a sniper and you're completely pro going 50-0, and there's a total first month noob who's a sniper going 0-50 the KDR for the class (not the player, the player doesn't matter) is 1:1 Now obviously that's a simplistic example but the point remains that it is the GAME WIDE average which counts not the specific experiences or performance of any handful of players.
Posting feedback on your experiences, especially with the details explaining why is of value in a beta. Posting conclusions regarding balance with such an infinitesimal piece of the data... well that's, shall we say, less useful.
My 0.02 ISK Cross
ps ~ you can't be said to have "only two levels" of skills related to sniping if you've picked up any of the more general crossover skills such as Weaponry, or any of the other broad skills that apply to sniping. You've gained ranks towards the your effective use of a given battlefield role for every skill rank of any kind that applies (i.e. is active/having an effect) to that role (whatever it may be) not just for those skills which happen to contain the name of that role in their title. |
STB Vermaak Doe
558
|
Posted - 2012.09.17 03:15:00 -
[85] - Quote
Jane DeArc wrote:STB Vermaak Doe wrote:I didn't say nerf i simply gave ways to improve the weapon Your first post suggest ways to negatively impact performance to make it more balanced as you see fit. You claim them OP, and thus that they need to be powered down a bit. How the kitten do you define a nerf?
Breach ar last build, then now |
Reefersmokintaz
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
34
|
Posted - 2012.09.17 03:44:00 -
[86] - Quote
I do have to say that the Charge sniper rifle is abit op for being a beginner level skill gun. Id say move it to the proto level 5 and maybe add some proficiency skills to it to make it a lil more tough to get and to strive for. DONT NERF IT!!! |
Jane DeArc
Militaires Sans Jeux
87
|
Posted - 2012.09.17 03:49:00 -
[87] - Quote
Reefersmokintaz wrote:I do have to say that the Charge sniper rifle is abit op for being a beginner level skill gun. Id say move it to the proto level 5 and maybe add some proficiency skills to it to make it a lil more tough to get and to strive for. DONT NERF IT!!!
If they move it to the proto level, they'll also need to buff it's damage to make up for the steep requirement. The charge is meant to sacrifice range and rate of fire for high damage. It has tradeoffs, and if you're going to push it further from the player (which isn't a big deal since new players with low investment shouldn't be getting something so powerful so fast) you need to offbalance it by making it more powerful for it's tier. |
STB Vermaak Doe
558
|
Posted - 2012.09.17 03:53:00 -
[88] - Quote
Jane DeArc wrote:Reefersmokintaz wrote:I do have to say that the Charge sniper rifle is abit op for being a beginner level skill gun. Id say move it to the proto level 5 and maybe add some proficiency skills to it to make it a lil more tough to get and to strive for. DONT NERF IT!!! If they move it to the proto level, they'll also need to buff it's damage to make up for the steep requirement. The charge is meant to sacrifice range and rate of fire for high damage. It has tradeoffs, and if you're going to push it further from the player (which isn't a big deal since new players with low investment shouldn't be getting something so powerful so fast) you need to offbalance it by making it more powerful for it's tier. It only loses rof not range and it wouldn't need a damage increase if it was proto |
Jane DeArc
Militaires Sans Jeux
87
|
Posted - 2012.09.17 03:58:00 -
[89] - Quote
STB Vermaak Doe wrote:It only loses rof not range and it wouldn't need a damage increase if it was proto
You don't know what you are talking about, and you've displayed it in every single post you've made in this thread. Please leave and let the people who are serious, educated, and willing to listen exchange ideas and find ways to better the game in a proactive and thoughtful way.
You do nothing but contribute one-line random spewings which fail to provide any backing, proof, or even reasoning for why you say things.
At the very minimum keep your ideas away from me, I feel that I lose something I may not be able to regain everytime I am forced to respond to your dribble. |
STB Vermaak Doe
558
|
Posted - 2012.09.17 04:02:00 -
[90] - Quote
Jane DeArc wrote:STB Vermaak Doe wrote:It only loses rof not range and it wouldn't need a damage increase if it was proto You don't know what you are talking about, and you've displayed it in every single post you've made in this thread. Please leave and let the people who are serious, educated, and willing to listen exchange ideas and find ways to better the game in a proactive and thoughtful way. You do nothing but contribute one-line random spewings which fail to provide any backing, proof, or even reasoning for why you say things. At the very minimum keep your ideas away from me, I feel that I lose something I may not be able to regain everytime I am forced to respond to your dribble.
Last time i checked i didn't have a gun to your head making you reply, i simply enjoy baiting idiots. Amoung my long range kills was a kill with the charge rifle at over 600m, extending past the redline |
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