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FrierTheChosenOne
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
27
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 19:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
I don't care if we're in space or whatever, as it stands it has a very long swing time and barely any damage. It needs to be one hit kill like in all other good FPS. |
Skytt Syysch
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
235
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 19:38:00 -
[2] - Quote
No. Insta-kill knives are stupid. Level up your skills with it and equip some mods and it'll be better. |
Relyt R
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
56
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 19:39:00 -
[3] - Quote
Ever play BF3? not a OHK there, and it's a pretty good FPS, better than COD anyways |
FrierTheChosenOne
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
27
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 19:41:00 -
[4] - Quote
Relyt R wrote:Ever play BF3? not a OHK there, and it's a pretty good FPS, better than COD anyways The knife system in BF3 is god awful, it's way too glitchy, but it is 1 hit kill from the back |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 19:41:00 -
[5] - Quote
Its designed to finish off somone you just emptied out your magazine out on. Also Dropsuit armor is made of stuff you cant really cut with a regular knife (since most are nanite forged) so energy assisted blades where made to cut though the materials and the fact that personal shields have gotten good enough to asorb hits traveling near lightspit from a dart it would be good enough to stop a plasma edged knife. Thus you have to cut though the shields as well. |
Longshot Ravenwood
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
680
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 19:42:00 -
[6] - Quote
The guy sneaking up on the snipers & knifing them in the back thinks it's working just fine as is. |
4447
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
649
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 19:44:00 -
[7] - Quote
so if the shield is down on a player it's one hit kill with a knife? |
William HBonney
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
318
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 19:45:00 -
[8] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Its designed to finish off somone you just emptied out your magazine out on. Also Dropsuit armor is made of stuff you cant really cut with a regular knife (since most are nanite forged) so energy assisted blades where made to cut though the materials and the fact that personal shields have gotten good enough to asorb hits traveling near lightspit from a dart it would be good enough to stop a plasma edged knife. Thus you have to cut though the shields as well. Really? That is so cool! Lets talk about "realism" instead of making good cps mechanics...oh and oho on knives it dumb...and so is having a 2inch blade...and poor hit detection. |
FrierTheChosenOne
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
27
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 19:45:00 -
[9] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Its designed to finish off somone you just emptied out your magazine out on. Also Dropsuit armor is made of stuff you cant really cut with a regular knife (since most are nanite forged) so energy assisted blades where made to cut though the materials and the fact that personal shields have gotten good enough to asorb hits traveling near lightspit from a dart it would be good enough to stop a plasma edged knife. Thus you have to cut though the shields as well. I already said i don't care about space stuff, it's an FPS and the knife should be consistent not an awful unused weapon. |
Thick McRun Fast
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
177
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 19:47:00 -
[10] - Quote
No. |
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 19:49:00 -
[11] - Quote
ANTI-LIKE!
1_ There are skills to make it stronger. 2_ There are things you can equip on your dropsuit fittings to make knife stronger. 3_ Instant kill makes it have overpowered compared to guns, which do low damage.
Knife speed needs to be improved though, and knife should cancel reloading. There should maybe be a range buff. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 19:50:00 -
[12] - Quote
How about we work on how knifing works instead of the clumbersome system is.
Also you negate the need to train knife skills as an idiot with a knife is sure damned gauranteed to do less damage than a pro knife killer.
Also the bionics for the arms to make knives smash though alot harder.
It was said a near maxed out knife player can cut a heavy down in four strikes, the problem is though is performing all four strikes as it stands now. Then again that was before they added tier 2 weapon skills I have no idea what is the max knife damage now.
Now I would rather see a damage bonus for knifing somone in the back so to say, similar to how a shot to the head works for guns knives could get thier bonus from any general aera mostly to the back. Lets say oh 2x more damage so that if its a heavy suit you can get the second strike in before he turns around if you are fully skilled.
Follow this by a stamina cost lunge and the ability to equip knife that way if you mismanage your stamina you may not have enough for that critical lunge to get to somone's throat and they blaste your face full of lead instead. |
Buck Hardback
11
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 19:54:00 -
[13] - Quote
I wouldn't train for half a year to acquire a heavy with massive slow tank just to be 1HK'ed by a scout from behind. Half a year of game skill time nullified by a scout militia with zero skills. No one would use anything but scouts in CQC for knife spam. Good way to bust up the game in one move.
Knifes needs to be cleaner and more responsive. Yet 1HK is simply a horrible mechanic for those with no gun game in a damn gun game. |
DonRodie II
14
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 19:54:00 -
[14] - Quote
yeah the knifing need to be improved. It suck right now. you can't even tell if you hitting someone or not with the knife. I would love to have a ninja sword wooooooooohooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!! |
Crimson MoonV
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
658
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 19:54:00 -
[15] - Quote
The knife is a 1HK on most scouts. I do agree the knife is a joke atm. We are in space I want a ******* laser sword as a melee weapon. |
SuperMido
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
67
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 19:54:00 -
[16] - Quote
I'll answer you with 2 words: F U C K NO!!! |
Icy Tiger
496
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 19:55:00 -
[17] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:How about we work on how knifing works instead of the clumbersome system is.
Also you negate the need to train knife skills as an idiot with a knife is sure damned gauranteed to do less damage than a pro knife killer.
Also the bionics for the arms to make knives smash though alot harder.
It was said a near maxed out knife player can cut a heavy down in four strikes, the problem is though is performing all four strikes as it stands now. Then again that was before they added tier 2 weapon skills I have no idea what is the max knife damage now.
Now I would rather see a damage bonus for knifing somone in the back so to say, similar to how a shot to the head works for guns knives could get thier bonus from any general aera mostly to the back.
He doesn't have the SP, since he blew it all on Trolling Proficiency Level 5. |
RolyatDerTeufel
D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION
1648
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 19:55:00 -
[18] - Quote
FrierTheChosenOne wrote:I don't care if we're in space or whatever, as it stands it has a very long swing time and barely any damage. It needs to be one hit kill like in all other good FPS.
QQ more please
What knife skill do you have and do you use modules?
Feedback without trying out the upgrades in game is fail. |
Icy Tiger
496
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 19:55:00 -
[19] - Quote
FrierTheChosenOne wrote:I don't care if we're in space or whatever, as it stands it has a very long swing time and barely any damage. It needs to be one hit kill like in all other good FPS.
Call of Duty isn't a "good" FPS. Please don't use it as a base for Dust. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 19:56:00 -
[20] - Quote
Crimson MoonV wrote:The knife is a 1HK on most scouts. I do agree the knife is a joke atm. We are in space I want a ******* laser sword as a melee weapon.
Ask the amarrians one for one. They have em I think. Minmtar has some sort of spear as well. Gallente have this hatchet looking knife though. |
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Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 19:58:00 -
[21] - Quote
I am just saying I somewhat agree that knifing somone to death shouldnt take 20 stabs to do so but making it one stab regardless is a bit lame in a game that allows you to build up counters to anything that gets too popular. I mean Week 1 after reset I see so many people in muraders just killing everything last weekend i saw way more muraders killed than ever before. So people are at least adjusting to new tactics and things brought to the field. |
SoLJae
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
351
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 19:58:00 -
[22] - Quote
FrierTheChosenOne wrote:I don't care if we're in space or whatever, as it stands it has a very long swing time and barely any damage. It needs to be one hit kill like in all other good FPS.
NOOOOOOO. I always hated that one-stab-kill from fifteen feet away that formed the COD experience. Noob cheap. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 19:58:00 -
[23] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Crimson MoonV wrote:The knife is a 1HK on most scouts. I do agree the knife is a joke atm. We are in space I want a ******* laser sword as a melee weapon. Ask the amarrians one for one. They have em I think. Minmtar has some sort of spear as well. Gallente have this hatchet looking knife though. Really? I would love to see all the different races have a different melee weapon. |
Belzeebub Santana
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
409
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 19:59:00 -
[24] - Quote
So OHK knives are ok but REs that blow up need to be nerfed so they dont OHK?
Like where these threads go, please tell me why it is sensible to take "a knife into a gun fight"?
Buff your knife skill and other augments and realize that this is still a beta, hit detection and swipe will probably be adjusted. Yes they are pretty pointless but a OHK knife is dumb without proper skills boosted. Once that is done I'm all for you having a badass knife and that being your main weapon. |
DonRodie II
14
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 19:59:00 -
[25] - Quote
knifing on this game suck |
gangsta nachos
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
377
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 20:02:00 -
[26] - Quote
No we do not need ohk melee weapons |
Buzzwords
Deadly Blue Dots RISE of LEGION
416
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 20:03:00 -
[27] - Quote
this is one of the worst ideas i've read on this forum... for cereal...
player health (relative to weapons) in dust is massive compared to every other shooter. it can easily take 10, 15, 20... 50... shots to kill. (50 is actually possible. a standard heavy suit with good mechanics and shield management has 1,125 total health... no modules. a low end smg deals 20 dmg per shot. that's 57 un-modded bullets to kill. assuming no damage loss over range, which i don't think there is.)
whereas the weakest gun in MW2 takes 5 bullets to kill.
in MW3 the weakest gun takes 6 bullets to kill.
in battlefield 3 the weakest gun takes 9 bullets to kill.
(all of these numbers assume maximum distance, minimum damage per shot.) these are the absolute WORST case scenarios for those games
therefore, a one hit killing knife would actually be FAR stronger in dust than in any other shooter. so right there this is a terrible idea.
but now lets also consider the MASSIVE differences in mobility and health between classes. who benefits more from a 1 hitting knife? the heavy with over 1k health? or the scout with half that health but DOUBLE the movement speed?
baffling... terrible idea.. terrible, terrible idea... |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
1012
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 20:03:00 -
[28] - Quote
I have shields and armor for that reason so you cant OHK me
|
Crimson MoonV
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
658
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 20:04:00 -
[29] - Quote
gangsta nachos wrote:No we do not need ohk melee weapons
It should be 2HK. 1 swipe for their shields one swipe for their health. 1HK on scouts tbh. |
Maken Tosch
263
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 20:05:00 -
[30] - Quote
FrierTheChosenOne wrote:I don't care if we're in space or whatever, as it stands it has a very long swing time and barely any damage. It needs to be one hit kill like in all other good FPS.
1. Train up knifing skills. 2. Try to knife better next time. 3. ... 4. Profit. |
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Sandromin Hes
Sand Mercenary Corps Inc.
204
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 20:07:00 -
[31] - Quote
Knifing is fine as it is- I mean really, in real life, you can get stabbed multiple times before dying. Add space armor and plasma guns to that, think about it. The way it works right now is very realistic, and on top of that, there are skills you can train. So if you truly want to get a OHK knife, train to knife proficiency you unaware people. it adds around +50% damage in the long run. The way it works right now is good, no changes needed
Reloading is a different problem- anything you do interrupts it and it doesn't matter how far you got into reloading... it's a bit of a problem sometimes
REs is not a problem either. If you're stupid enough to not realize that an enemy lobbed a chunk of explosives right next to you, you deserve to blow to bits.
Guns are also fine, but there's a few balancing tweaks needed.
Vehicles are not a problem. Right now, its in beta, so don't worry about any stupid failures to not use AV gear.
Refer to one of those for most of your problems. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 20:07:00 -
[32] - Quote
Remote explosive damage distance against owner needs to be fixed so a people using them would be less able to use them like a grenade and get caught in thier own blast. |
Xocoyol Zaraoul
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
259
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 20:09:00 -
[33] - Quote
How is a base 110 points barely any damage, you probably just need to facehug better and your "hits" are actually missing.
There is a skill that raises it by 50% and there are biotics that raise it by 50% each.
No, not a damage buff, just maybe a smidge more reach, about 10 more cm for the animation. |
Cobalt Monkey
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
140
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 20:10:00 -
[34] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:ANTI-LIKE!
1_ There are skills to make it stronger. 2_ There are things you can equip on your dropsuit fittings to make knife stronger. 3_ Instant kill makes it have overpowered compared to guns, which do low damage.
Knife speed needs to be improved though, and knife should cancel reloading. There should maybe be a range buff. QFT OHK knifing turns every encounter into just knifing the other guy. Especially when anyone with decent armor and shields could easily just charge right up through all the bullets you sink into them and get a free kill. No, thank you. It's nice to play a game again where everyone ISN'T made of glass. CoD characters die if you so much as breathe in their general direction. Which is alright since the focus in those games in nowhere near actual shooter skill. It's all about thinking tactically and getting the drop on the other guy. One man coming from an unexpected direction can clear a room with a pistol in those games. Dust isn't like that, and shouldn't be. The need for tactical thought is still there, of course, but you need gun skill to back it up. |
VigSniper101
204
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 20:10:00 -
[35] - Quote
Forget the Knife |
Maken Tosch
263
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 20:11:00 -
[36] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Remote explosive damage distance against owner needs to be fixed so a people using them would be less able to use them like a grenade and get caught in thier own blast.
If they got caught in their own blast then it's their fault. Let them wallow in their own idiocy. |
Buzzwords
Deadly Blue Dots RISE of LEGION
416
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 20:14:00 -
[37] - Quote
fully buffed and built towards in the last build, the knife did 406.35 damage. (assuming the weaponry skill affected it) it was a laughable fit, but it was possible.
you can't see slot layouts on suit previews anymore so it's harder for me to theorycraft, but none of the slot layouts have changed on any of the suits i can use. so that number is probably still correct.
EDIT: just remembered, ccp confirmed proto logi has 4 hi-slots Here: so i'm fairly confident my number is correct even now. |
Longshot Ravenwood
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
680
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 20:15:00 -
[38] - Quote
Knife is underpowered -- I can't OHK a sargis. |
Thick McRun Fast
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
177
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 20:16:00 -
[39] - Quote
Longshot Ravenwood wrote:Knife is underpowered -- I can't OHK a sargis. You need to knife the belly. That's the weak point. |
Kcobra Rod
Foxhound Corporation
55
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 20:18:00 -
[40] - Quote
Lol if by good FPS's you mean COD... GTFO of here |
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gangsta nachos
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
377
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 20:19:00 -
[41] - Quote
Ohk melee will be abused just like re's are now you will have a scout with all the speed upgrades running around knifing just like you have scouts running up to you and throwing down re's and blowing you up |
Maken Tosch
263
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 20:22:00 -
[42] - Quote
F*** THE KNIFE!!
JACK DANIELS FTW!!! |
FrierTheChosenOne
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
27
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 20:23:00 -
[43] - Quote
just like someone mentioned, 2 hit kill from the front and 1 hit kill from the back, the knife then will have some use and be a used weapon. |
Crimson MoonV
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
658
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 20:24:00 -
[44] - Quote
gangsta nachos wrote:Ohk melee will be abused just like re's are now you will have a scout with all the speed upgrades running around knifing just like you have scouts running up to you and throwing down re's and blowing you up
The same people that are against 1HK knife are the same people abusing RE. Knife needs to be 2HK and 1HK on scouts.(it already is a 1HK on most scouts) RE needs to be planted like a claymore so they are not used as an "I win" button.
I think this is a good tradeoff that should make everyone happy. |
gangsta nachos
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
377
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 20:27:00 -
[45] - Quote
FrierTheChosenOne wrote:just like someone mentioned, 2 hit kill from the front and 1 hit kill from the back, the knife then will have some use and be a used weapon. Hell no there is already enough cheap kills in this game there is no way in hell that a knife should do more damage than a gun sorry |
Templar Two
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
459
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 20:28:00 -
[46] - Quote
We discussed this, we proposed alternatives to this to CCP but nothing: no answer.
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amarrian victorian
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
52
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 20:29:00 -
[47] - Quote
melee attacks should be removed from the game anyways. COD knifing used to be hard to do and a big deal, but now its a joke and as you move through 100 bullets to do a little slash for a kill.
BF3 knifing was a bit better but still its annoying to be facing and enemy then the knife animation happens that cannot be stopped when it shouldn't be killing you
Dust right now thankfully knife attacks are hard to do AND don't do whole lots of damage... next good step is to remove the knife option. using a knife is supposed to be a last resort. |
gangsta nachos
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
377
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 20:31:00 -
[48] - Quote
Crimson MoonV wrote:gangsta nachos wrote:Ohk melee will be abused just like re's are now you will have a scout with all the speed upgrades running around knifing just like you have scouts running up to you and throwing down re's and blowing you up The same people that are against 1HK knife are the same people abusing RE. Knife needs to be 2HK and 1HK on scouts.(it already is a 1HK on most scouts) RE needs to be planted like a claymore so they are not used as an "I win" button. I think this is a good tradeoff that should make everyone happy. So why not a one shot kill to the scout
Makes no since |
Belzeebub Santana
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
409
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 20:31:00 -
[49] - Quote
Agreed... OLD 7 PLZ! |
Crimson MoonV
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
658
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 20:33:00 -
[50] - Quote
amarrian victorian wrote:melee attacks should be removed from the game anyways. COD knifing used to be hard to do and a big deal, but now its a joke and as you move through 100 bullets to do a little slash for a kill.
BF3 knifing was a bit better but still its annoying to be facing and enemy then the knife animation happens that cannot be stopped when it shouldn't be killing you
Dust right now thankfully knife attacks are hard to do AND don't do whole lots of damage... next good step is to remove the knife option. using a knife is supposed to be a last resort. This is a strafe and shoot high health fps. It need a good melee system to be a success. It shouldn't be a 1HK. But it shouldn't be useless at the same time. 2HK tbh. 1 hit for shields 1 hit for health. |
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Sw3RvE
25
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 20:34:00 -
[51] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Crimson MoonV wrote:The knife is a 1HK on most scouts. I do agree the knife is a joke atm. We are in space I want a ******* laser sword as a melee weapon. Ask the amarrians one for one. They have em I think. Minmtar has some sort of spear as well. Gallente have this hatchet looking knife though.
that could be arranged, right CCP ? |
SoCal Ninja
260
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 20:38:00 -
[52] - Quote
There are tons of games without a OHK knife, and they do great. Pro tip, if you don't miss you don't need to knife. |
Sw3RvE
25
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 20:40:00 -
[53] - Quote
SoCal Ninja wrote:There are tons of games without a OHK knife, and they do great. Pro tip, if you don't miss you don't need to knife.
To me, the knife is either useless... or if you shoot their shield and armor down low enough, then you can FINNISH HIM!
I can find many other things to use priceless SP on than a plastic space knife. |
gangsta nachos
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
377
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 20:41:00 -
[54] - Quote
SoCal Ninja wrote:There are tons of games without a OHK knife, and they do great. Pro tip, if you don't miss you don't need to knife. This And if it comes down to you running out of ammo in your mag while in a close quarter fight if you have your knife leveled up you could run up then while his shireld and armor is depleted then you will have your one hit kill |
Ray seveN
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
71
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 20:42:00 -
[55] - Quote
Icy Tiger wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:How about we work on how knifing works instead of the clumbersome system is.
Also you negate the need to train knife skills as an idiot with a knife is sure damned gauranteed to do less damage than a pro knife killer.
Also the bionics for the arms to make knives smash though alot harder.
It was said a near maxed out knife player can cut a heavy down in four strikes, the problem is though is performing all four strikes as it stands now. Then again that was before they added tier 2 weapon skills I have no idea what is the max knife damage now.
Now I would rather see a damage bonus for knifing somone in the back so to say, similar to how a shot to the head works for guns knives could get thier bonus from any general aera mostly to the back.
He doesn't have the SP, since he blew it all on Trolling Proficiency Level 5. whoa!! that adds 25% trolling magnitude to all troll abilities |
SoCal Ninja
260
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 20:45:00 -
[56] - Quote
Go figure out the stats before coming to the forums and complaining. Knife can be leveled up significantly, but it will never be one hit kill. All those saying it already is a one hit kill on scouts doesn't know what they are talking about either. the knife does a base of 135. The lowest scout health is 190 total. The knife is not meant to do damage in this game, deal with it. CCP has the guts to realize that a lot of knife mechanics are unbalanced due to them being too strong. Plus, if you gave me a OHK knife than I know that the next day you'd see the thread "Knife Scouts Are too STRONG!" |
FrierTheChosenOne
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
27
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 20:46:00 -
[57] - Quote
Crimson MoonV wrote:amarrian victorian wrote:melee attacks should be removed from the game anyways. COD knifing used to be hard to do and a big deal, but now its a joke and as you move through 100 bullets to do a little slash for a kill.
BF3 knifing was a bit better but still its annoying to be facing and enemy then the knife animation happens that cannot be stopped when it shouldn't be killing you
Dust right now thankfully knife attacks are hard to do AND don't do whole lots of damage... next good step is to remove the knife option. using a knife is supposed to be a last resort. This is a strafe and shoot high health fps. It need a good melee system to be a success. It shouldn't be a 1HK. But it shouldn't be useless at the same time. 2HK tbh. 1 hit for shields 1 hit for health. This right here makes sense. Agreed. |
Crimson MoonV
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
658
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 20:47:00 -
[58] - Quote
I don't understand what people have against the knife. Its so much more personal and romantic to kill someone with a knife then it is to shoot them. |
Kira Lannister
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
711
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 20:50:00 -
[59] - Quote
Worst. Idea. Ever.
Think the RE problem is bad? This is just worse. |
Longshot Ravenwood
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
680
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 20:54:00 -
[60] - Quote
FrierTheChosenOne wrote:Crimson MoonV wrote:amarrian victorian wrote:melee attacks should be removed from the game anyways. COD knifing used to be hard to do and a big deal, but now its a joke and as you move through 100 bullets to do a little slash for a kill.
BF3 knifing was a bit better but still its annoying to be facing and enemy then the knife animation happens that cannot be stopped when it shouldn't be killing you
Dust right now thankfully knife attacks are hard to do AND don't do whole lots of damage... next good step is to remove the knife option. using a knife is supposed to be a last resort. This is a strafe and shoot high health fps. It need a good melee system to be a success. It shouldn't be a 1HK. But it shouldn't be useless at the same time. 2HK tbh. 1 hit for shields 1 hit for health. This right here makes sense. Agreed. With proper skills & modules it IS a 2-3 hit kill, unless you're trying to take on a heavy. I've had a scout knife me to death while in my heavy suit. Couldn't freaking turn fast enough to kill him before he bled out my suit's reserves. |
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Ray seveN
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
71
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 20:54:00 -
[61] - Quote
FrierTheChosenOne wrote:Crimson MoonV wrote:amarrian victorian wrote:melee attacks should be removed from the game anyways. COD knifing used to be hard to do and a big deal, but now its a joke and as you move through 100 bullets to do a little slash for a kill.
BF3 knifing was a bit better but still its annoying to be facing and enemy then the knife animation happens that cannot be stopped when it shouldn't be killing you
Dust right now thankfully knife attacks are hard to do AND don't do whole lots of damage... next good step is to remove the knife option. using a knife is supposed to be a last resort. This is a strafe and shoot high health fps. It need a good melee system to be a success. It shouldn't be a 1HK. But it shouldn't be useless at the same time. 2HK tbh. 1 hit for shields 1 hit for health. This right here makes sense. Agreed. If this were to happen then I would expect it to be the end result of upgrading knife operation lv 5 and knife prof. lv 5 and thats only dependant on what kind of armor the other guy is wearing. militia-type II will be 2hk and 1 hk from the back, advance to lv4 will b 3hk and 2 hk form the back, proto will be 4hk and 3hk from the back. Having additional skills improved like mechanics lv 5 and shield upgrade lv will add in more hits to kill with a knife. I think that sums it up pretty well.
Edit: Also there should be a varied degree of damage taken depending on the class thats being knifed. So scouts damage > logi damage > assault damage > heavy damage. |
gangsta nachos
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
377
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 20:55:00 -
[62] - Quote
FrierTheChosenOne wrote:Crimson MoonV wrote:amarrian victorian wrote:melee attacks should be removed from the game anyways. COD knifing used to be hard to do and a big deal, but now its a joke and as you move through 100 bullets to do a little slash for a kill.
BF3 knifing was a bit better but still its annoying to be facing and enemy then the knife animation happens that cannot be stopped when it shouldn't be killing you
Dust right now thankfully knife attacks are hard to do AND don't do whole lots of damage... next good step is to remove the knife option. using a knife is supposed to be a last resort. This is a strafe and shoot high health fps. It need a good melee system to be a success. It shouldn't be a 1HK. But it shouldn't be useless at the same time. 2HK tbh. 1 hit for shields 1 hit for health. This right here makes sense. Agreed. You agree huh why 1 hit for shield with a knife ? how many shots does it take to take down a shield ? Ant one hit kill for health which we don't have it should say armor why should the knife take down all armor in one hit? How many shots would this take? I would rather the knife be in a slot on the dropsuit like everything else so I can remove it and put something in its place |
Ray seveN
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
71
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 20:55:00 -
[63] - Quote
Crimson MoonV wrote:I don't understand what people have against the knife. Its so much more personal and romantic to kill someone with a knife then it is to shoot them. Its odd to see someone have so much satisfaction in killing some one with a knife :P |
Crimson MoonV
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
658
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 20:58:00 -
[64] - Quote
gangsta nachos wrote:FrierTheChosenOne wrote:Crimson MoonV wrote:amarrian victorian wrote:melee attacks should be removed from the game anyways. COD knifing used to be hard to do and a big deal, but now its a joke and as you move through 100 bullets to do a little slash for a kill.
BF3 knifing was a bit better but still its annoying to be facing and enemy then the knife animation happens that cannot be stopped when it shouldn't be killing you
Dust right now thankfully knife attacks are hard to do AND don't do whole lots of damage... next good step is to remove the knife option. using a knife is supposed to be a last resort. This is a strafe and shoot high health fps. It need a good melee system to be a success. It shouldn't be a 1HK. But it shouldn't be useless at the same time. 2HK tbh. 1 hit for shields 1 hit for health. This right here makes sense. Agreed. You agree huh why 1 hit for shield with a knife ? how many shots does it take to take down a shield ? Ant one hit kill for health which we don't have it should say armor why should the knife take down all armor in one hit? How many shots would this take? I would rather the knife be in a slot on the dropsuit like everything else so I can remove it and put something in its place It already is a 1 hit for the shields on militia and scout but I have 3 points in melee. |
Johnny Guilt
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
50
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 20:58:00 -
[65] - Quote
You can two hit most scouts, 3 hit assault and logis. Heavies take maybe 4-6 strikes.(im speaking with only L2 knife handling here) The knifes is only for back stabing people and picking off weaken opponents,not instant kill lock on panic knifing |
FrierTheChosenOne
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
27
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 20:59:00 -
[66] - Quote
gangsta nachos wrote:FrierTheChosenOne wrote:Crimson MoonV wrote:amarrian victorian wrote:melee attacks should be removed from the game anyways. COD knifing used to be hard to do and a big deal, but now its a joke and as you move through 100 bullets to do a little slash for a kill.
BF3 knifing was a bit better but still its annoying to be facing and enemy then the knife animation happens that cannot be stopped when it shouldn't be killing you
Dust right now thankfully knife attacks are hard to do AND don't do whole lots of damage... next good step is to remove the knife option. using a knife is supposed to be a last resort. This is a strafe and shoot high health fps. It need a good melee system to be a success. It shouldn't be a 1HK. But it shouldn't be useless at the same time. 2HK tbh. 1 hit for shields 1 hit for health. This right here makes sense. Agreed. You agree huh why 1 hit for shield with a knife ? how many shots does it take to take down a shield ? Ant one hit kill for health which we don't have it should say armor why should the knife take down all armor in one hit? How many shots would this take? I would rather the knife be in a slot on the dropsuit like everything else so I can remove it and put something in its place I read your post 2 times, it doesn't make any sense lol |
Lurchasaurus
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
808
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 21:02:00 -
[67] - Quote
so the OP thinks that just because a knife is a OHK in COD that means that is somehow the pinnacle of game mechanics and Dust, the game CCP is making to break the mold and be a revolutionary cross console MMOFPS, needs to copy this or else the game is broken and unbalanced?
hold on....lemme find it.....oh, here
|
Buzzwords
Deadly Blue Dots RISE of LEGION
416
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 21:05:00 -
[68] - Quote
if i was in a room with ******, justin beiber, and this idea... and i had a gun and 2 bullets, i'd shoot this idea twice.
yah... i said it.
EDIT: wow adolf gets bleeped? |
gangsta nachos
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
377
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 21:11:00 -
[69] - Quote
Change the title to knife works as intended |
Templar Two
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
459
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 21:22:00 -
[70] - Quote
In FPS if you can get close enough to melee me that you deserved the OHK.
Oh but no, better silly ballets, and struggle to kill someone that is 50cm away from you: those things are fun! |
|
FrierTheChosenOne
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
27
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 21:22:00 -
[71] - Quote
gangsta nachos wrote:Change the title to knife works as intended i don't know how to change the title lol |
Bones1182
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
86
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 21:22:00 -
[72] - Quote
All of those FPS games tht have OHK knives, first of they aren't DUST get over it. Second last time i looked in COD my little toon wears body armor depending on what "team" you are on at te time. I, me personally have worn the U.S. Army full armor there is just about no where you can stick me with a knife that is going to instantly kill me. You could stab at my legs but that won't kill me and then Can buttstroke the crap out of your head.
Now lets fast forward 3000 years and we have plasma weapons and energy shields strapped to our backs. That had better be one damn big knife.
I do believe the knife needs work becuase right now it is farily pointless. If CCP really wants a knife or any kind of melee it needs to work a little better. I believe however they are aware that people aren't too happy with it and that are trying to improve it. Things like range and hit detection but that is all I think need work. Also it does need to cancel reloading I don't care if I literally drop the magazine of ammo, it beats the jerk off scout with 2 hp left getting away to be annoying again later.
Well thats what I think. Oh it that was TL:DR Summary OHK knife is dumb and does not fit in this style of gameplay. Don't like it, well I don't really care. |
Armatsu
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
33
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 21:23:00 -
[73] - Quote
To be fair, if you know how to use a knife then its just as potent of a weapon as a gun is at close range. When it comes to balancing a game, you can put a full clip into an enemy without dropping them due to shields and armor and i don't care how good you are with a knife, 30 rounds to the chest is more deadly than a knife in the ribs.
As for all good FPS games have OHK knife, that is just absolute crap. Halo is considered one of the most competitive FPS games ever created and thats not even a 1hk melee unless it is from behind. CoD has an extremely overpowered knife and you can see that instantly by watching all of the noobs throw on their sprinter classes and running around at full speed trying to knife someone before getting blasted in the face. |
Super Cargo
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
428
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 21:29:00 -
[74] - Quote
FrierTheChosenOne wrote:I don't care if we're in space or whatever, as it stands it has a very long swing time and barely any damage. It needs to be one hit kill like in all other good FPS.
Yea, see, that's where you are wrong. All the ****** FPS games have OHK knives. OHK unless it is a sniper shot to the head ruins games.
I agree that melee damage should be buffed, but a lot of it's uselessness is because of Dust's terrible hit detection. The actual arc of the swing could be increased as well. |
Templar Two
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
459
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 21:34:00 -
[75] - Quote
Armatsu wrote: As for all good FPS games have OHK knife, that is just absolute crap. Halo is considered one of the most competitive FPS games ever created and thats not even a 1hk melee unless it is from behind.
What! First competitive doesn't mean demanding. Second you forget about Quake, Unreal, CS, Operation Flashpoint & Arma, Rainbow Six, Ghost Recon, and all FPS that preceded Halo. Third: in a game bases on range combat, based on guns, the melee is the ultimate resource so it must be worth it and not be frustrating. |
Chihiro Itto
66
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 21:41:00 -
[76] - Quote
This might be a dumb idea, it only just occurred to me, but an alternative to the knife mechanic might be a single-use (per clone, or limited by slot like other equipment) hand weapon that you use up close like a knife but that shorts out dropsuits and freezes the victim for a few seconds.
That gives you a bonus/advantage for getting up close (which is half the point of a melee attack anyway) but doesn't do any great damage (alternatively it could do major shield damage but not break armour). Get a successful hit and you could then drop a grenade, RE, pull a gun and get free shots at point-blank range, stop a capture mid-hack or if you are otherwise weapon-less, take to your heels and get the **** out of dodge before you get gacked. Call it the Neuro-spike maybe. You can rip it to pieces now people, go ahead.
I like the idea of hand weapons, but there are plenty of problems with the concept in the context of Dust as plenty of posters have already noted. That doesn't mean there aren't related and more appealing alternatives though. |
Shutter Fly
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
26
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 21:45:00 -
[77] - Quote
Am I the only one around here who has taken the time to actually CALCULATE the knife damage and actually USE A KNIFE FITTING?
Let me lay it out step-by-step:
Base Knife Damage: 135.0HP
Base Knife Damage w/ LV5 Knife Handling (50%): 202.5HP
Knife Damage w/ Complex Myofibril Stimulant (50% KH LV5) (50% MS 1): 303.75HP
Knife Damage w/ Complex Myofibril Stimulant x2 (50% KH LV5) (50% MS 1) (43.5% MS 2): 435.88HP
Knife Damage w/ Complex Myofibril Stimulant x3 (50% KH LV5) (50% MS 1) (43.5% MS 2) (28.5% MS 3): 560.10HP _____________________________________________________ In my tests, I was able to stack two MS on a Scout A-Series suit. The hit detection was so bugged that I was almost completely unable to hit moving opponents, but that is only a temporary issue. I managed to find a lower leveled Heavy that I killed with two hits from full shields and armor. Keep in mind, Myofibril and Kinetic Catalyzers are so taxing on CPU and PG that I had room for nothing else besides a standard shotgun. |
MrShooter01
Expert Intervention Caldari State
268
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 21:45:00 -
[78] - Quote
^^ Maxed out knife handling and a damage mod is more than enough to kill most scouts in one hit, and most assaults in two. If the hit registration was better (and it will be, eventually) I'd consider that a pretty valuable opening tool for sneaking up on someone, and you'd probably kill someone you got into a dance-off with if you hit him with at least a couple of bullets.
What's that? You can't instant kill a heavy or anyone with HP extenders? WELL THAT'S OUTRAGEOUS. A KNIFE SHOULD BE A BETTER CHOICE THAN A SHOTGUN FOR CLOSE ENCOUNTERS. Let's all petition CCP to add throwing knives and neigh-indestructible ballistic shields and turn this into another great game where every firefight is determined by who can survive getting into stabbing range first! Call of duty does it, why shouldn't we?
I want to be able to one-hit-kill a tank with my knife! |
Raynor Ragna
266
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 21:45:00 -
[79] - Quote
No to one hit kill |
Waruiko DUST
G I A N T
90
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 21:51:00 -
[80] - Quote
I think that with all this 'discussion' about what the Nova Knife SHOULD do that we need to take a look at what it already does. This means I get to math all over your faces!
All numbers from memory as we can't log in to check right now!
Knife Base Damage is 135 That's a 3 or four hit kill for most non heavy suits tops
Knife skill gives +10% per level up to 50% Adjusted Knife damage is 202.5 That will kill in 2 or three hits and if used after running your guns dry likely in just one hit
Because EVE and Dust both support specialization we'll assume you've got 2 +25% knife mods in your Highs and that they suffer stacking penalties This give you knife damage of about 297.1 This will two shot just about everything but a heavy and will one shot militia or scout stuff fairly often.
The knife has plenty of power to it as is when you specialize into it just like everything else.
EDIT: looks like someone else got to this first |
|
Anatoly Gasputin
Doomheim
40
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 21:51:00 -
[81] - Quote
So what I gathered this far was that a knife should penetrate my heavy armor that's "every vital area of the wearer is protected by 25mm composite ceramic shell or high tensile steel plates, layered with impact absorbing, compressed carbon latticework" with one hit? Even though the knife's blade is heated plasma edge. An inch (bit less actually but close enough) of ceramic/steel plates should be able to deflect a good number of knife blows. That said, this is one of the most stupidest ideas I have seen thus far. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 21:53:00 -
[82] - Quote
Templar Two wrote:Armatsu wrote: As for all good FPS games have OHK knife, that is just absolute crap. Halo is considered one of the most competitive FPS games ever created and thats not even a 1hk melee unless it is from behind.
What! First competitive doesn't mean demanding. Second you forget about Quake, Unreal, CS, Operation Flashpoint & Arma, Rainbow Six, Ghost Recon, and all FPS that preceded Halo. Third: in a game bases on range combat, based on guns, the melee is the ultimate resource so it must be worth it and not be frustrating. Lets use a couple of your examples then, shall we?
Quake: Melee = Axe = NOT capable of one-shotting even with only base health and no armour. Unreal: Unreal didn't even HAVE melee.
How about we go back even further? Doom. Melee was fists, which did barely any damage, or a chainsaw, which could slaughter, but was a sustain damage-over-time effect. There was also "berserk mode" which made your punches way stronger when using fists, BUT STILL NOT ENOUGH TO ONE-SHOT SOMEBODY.
With NO upgrades to melee effectiveness, it feels weak, but that's kind of the point. And upgrading the right skills means it CAN one-shot a Scout and possibly even a Militia Assault Dropsuit. This seems fair to me, and Heavies DEFINITELY shouldn't be vulnerable to one-shot melee.
The problem with the knife ISN'T in the damage, but in the mechanics. Often when I'm in close quarters and click the stick in for a melee attack, nothing happens. I've had problems with 4 separate controllers, none of which have ever had any issues with this in other games, and all of which have been used for other games since I noticed the problem in DUST. Responsiveness is a problem, and part of that is the inability to use the button to interrupt a reload.
Another, more serious issue is the lack of feedback. When your swing misses, it's fine. When it hits, there HAS to be a CLEAR visual cue (the crosshair flash isn't as easy to see through the knife animation) and more importantly, WE NEED TO HEAR IT. Adding a slight vibration effect on impact wouldn't be a bad thing either. Not giving proper feedback means we don't know when we're hitting and when we're missing, and when the game has the hit detection problems still present in DUST, that gives the illusion of melee being FAR weaker than it really is. |
Victor Euel
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
28
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 22:13:00 -
[83] - Quote
Longshot Ravenwood wrote: With proper skills & modules it IS a 2-3 hit kill, unless you're trying to take on a heavy. I've had a scout knife me to death while in my heavy suit. Couldn't freaking turn fast enough to kill him before he bled out my suit's reserves.
This exactly, I've killed heavies with no knife skills and while in a standard suit.
The knife isn't bad, you just don't know how to use it. |
Bzeer
MG GROUP
41
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 22:19:00 -
[84] - Quote
I don't think knifes should be standard issue one hit kill weapons. I do believe there should be additional blades availble to increase range damage and speed of repeating. I think a fast moving scout with a sword type blade that could do 3 quick swings would be a pretty scary close quarter combatant. Customblades such as this would replace a sidearm, or a blade slot would have to be added tithe fitting system. |
Dante Daedrik
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
97
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 22:37:00 -
[85] - Quote
It'd be nice to be able to walk up behind snipers, not even bothering to waste ammo, but with a slice of the knife. I always find myself having to shoot down their shields and some (with protosuits and other shield/armor mods) are able to escape or efficiently retaliate even though I've emptied a clip on them. |
Patrick Dubeau
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 22:38:00 -
[86] - Quote
I Vote for 1 Hit Kill... with a normal killing range |
Longshot Ravenwood
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
680
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 22:42:00 -
[87] - Quote
Patrick Dubeau wrote:I Vote for 1 Hit Kill... with a normal killing range Equip remote explosives. Problem solved. |
Th3rdSun
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
323
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 23:01:00 -
[88] - Quote
As it stands right now,the knife is hot garbage.The range is too short,and the swipe is kind of unresponsive,even if you have the proper amount of energy to use it.
I think the only way that the knife should be a OHK is if your enemy has no shield left and you actually have the knife completely maxed out.Now this is for anything under a maxed out heavy.I also wouldn't be opposed to a OHK to an enemy from behind while they are crouching.I remember reading someone mentioning this before,but there should also be a stab to go along with the swipe.Tap R3 for the swipe,and hold R3 for the stab.The stab could be a OHK,but it's use on your stamina should be very large.Maybe even charge it,and the more you charge it,the more damage,the more energy it uses,but also the longer you are exposed to an attack.
I think CCP has a good theory with the knife though.Unlike MAG,where you actually CAN take a knife to a gun fight,and win,they have eliminated that nonsense from this game,and this is coming form a person that racked up over 20 knife kills. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 23:24:00 -
[89] - Quote
Like I said though lets get the fixes in place first before we worry more about numbers. I havent bothered training the knife yet but it worked really well when I ran out of ammo and the guy is in my face. |
KingBlade82
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
56
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 23:51:00 -
[90] - Quote
FrierTheChosenOne wrote:I don't care if we're in space or whatever, as it stands it has a very long swing time and barely any damage. It needs to be one hit kill like in all other good FPS. a knife should only be a one hit ko if u cant be seen aka stealth or behind the player or critical enough to kill scout and assault but heavies seem to be pretty well covered idk if they have a weak point so to speak and if they add other melee weapons it should not be a one hit ko |
|
DonRodie II
14
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 00:45:00 -
[91] - Quote
The knifing gameplay needs to improve.
I can't even tell if I'm making contact with my knife on the enemy.... |
Vrain Matari
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
404
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 02:33:00 -
[92] - Quote
FrierTheChosenOne wrote:I don't care if we're in space or whatever, as it stands it has a very long swing time and barely any damage. It needs to be one hit kill like in all other good FPS.
When the knife is trained up and you buff it with melee mods the damage is monstrous. But you're going to have to dump a fair number of skillpoints into it and maybe give up a slot on you suit if you want to ohk with it.
Let the QQing begin. |
Naustradamus Oracle
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
61
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 02:46:00 -
[93] - Quote
I agree that the knife should be a one hit kill for anyone with any armor, but to balance it out, it should be a lengthy animation
Example: look at Killzone 3, it's not just a swipe of the knife, you need to grab the person and slice his throat.
So for Dust, level one knife skill would take a while, longer for heavies, etc. As your knife level goes up, the animation becomes more accurate and quick, leaving you less vulnerable for fire from other enemies, etc.
Right now, with the controls and movement system in place, real CQC (within 1 meter of each other) makes gun combat fairly useless, even sub machine guns and shotguns, as well as the knife gameplay rather difficult and cumbersome.
At least, that's my thought on it ... for the number of times i've been in those CQC instances, placing SP in knife damage have been at the bottom of my list, so my opinion may not be the most accurate, but even higher damage probably doesn't make the knife usage any smoother I'm guessing. |
Nick Phantom
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
91
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 02:47:00 -
[94] - Quote
No. |
Kitt 514
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
94
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 03:42:00 -
[95] - Quote
Train knife skills.
HTFU or GTFO |
gangsta nachos
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
377
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 03:45:00 -
[96] - Quote
Just had to jump in again and say hell no get some gun game you don't need the knife problem solved |
Crimson MoonV
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
658
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 04:00:00 -
[97] - Quote
gangsta nachos wrote:Just had to jump in again and say hell no get some gun game you don't need the knife problem solved The knife does need to be fixed. Not the damage. The inconsistencies and delay. Or just give us a nova sword. |
gangsta nachos
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
377
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 04:03:00 -
[98] - Quote
Crimson MoonV wrote:gangsta nachos wrote:Just had to jump in again and say hell no get some gun game you don't need the knife problem solved The knife does need to be fixed. Not the damage. The inconsistencies and delay. Or just give us a nova sword. Yes hit detection in general needs to be fixed but on topic the knife should never be a one hit kill change the title |
Crimson MoonV
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
658
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 04:15:00 -
[99] - Quote
gangsta nachos wrote:Crimson MoonV wrote:gangsta nachos wrote:Just had to jump in again and say hell no get some gun game you don't need the knife problem solved The knife does need to be fixed. Not the damage. The inconsistencies and delay. Or just give us a nova sword. Yes hit detection in general needs to be fixed but on topic the knife should never be a one hit kill change the title I didn't start the thread I can't.It is a 1HK on scouts btw. The only time you ever really get a chance to knife a scout is when they are sniping. If they are going to camp with a sniper rifle you deserve to to get 1HK tbh. |
gangsta nachos
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
377
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 04:23:00 -
[100] - Quote
Crimson MoonV wrote:gangsta nachos wrote:Crimson MoonV wrote:gangsta nachos wrote:Just had to jump in again and say hell no get some gun game you don't need the knife problem solved The knife does need to be fixed. Not the damage. The inconsistencies and delay. Or just give us a nova sword. Yes hit detection in general needs to be fixed but on topic the knife should never be a one hit kill change the title I didn't start the thread I can't. It is a 1HK on scouts btw. The only time you ever really get a chance to knife a scout is when they are sniping. If they are going to camp with a sniper rifle you deserve to to get 1HK tbh. I will never be a scout so I can agree with that, snipers deserve that not everyone else and I know you can't change the title sadly it says knifes should be a ohk maybe it should say knifes should be a ohk to scouts |
|
Ghural
The Southern Legion
63
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 04:25:00 -
[101] - Quote
Knives are ****, especially if you have a poor ping rate. |
Minmatar Slave 74136
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
291
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 05:02:00 -
[102] - Quote
FrierTheChosenOne wrote:I don't care if we're in space or whatever, as it stands it has a very long swing time and barely any damage. It needs to be one hit kill like in all other good FPS.
What else do you want? The across-the-map Tomahawk O' Doom?
|
Zat Earthshatter
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
304
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 05:12:00 -
[103] - Quote
For those using "realism" as an excuse to have insta-kill knives... that's only if you hit a vital or artery. Bullets are far more deadly as they rip holes much larger than themselves in soft targets. Also, we have thick armor, artificial muscle and advanced shielding to contend with before you can even touch flesh.
For just about everybody - only whine AFTER you've skilled knives to l5 and made a knife-focused suit fit. A setup like that could insta-kill plenty of non-heavy dropsuits. |
Ten-Sidhe
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
414
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 05:37:00 -
[104] - Quote
no one hit kill, makes training for knives pointless. Brutal melee was cool in killzone, I don't think it would work in dust. The classes in killzone seemed to be roghly same hp, if not exact. In dust it depends on what suit your in, how its fit, and what skills you trained. And possibly what skills your leaders have and what command modules they are using to buff there lower ranks. EvE also had drugs that boosted armour(magic space drugs make steel strong?) dust may also one day. Two many factors for ohk to be balanced against.
What would help knife. 1)better hit confirmation 2)more skills for those that specialize, a given gun has 5 skills to boost it, and each unlocks a new skill at level V, knife has one. 3)better knives in sidearm slot, default knife is militia and takes no slot, but better knives cost isk, cpu,pg and a slot. 4)larger melee weapons in light weapon slot. The EvE background mentions the amarr have a group that still trains for hand to hand, and implants there body to boost there abilities. 5)longer reach, listed last since it could fall under 2 if it was a skill.
what would not help 1) arbitrary damage affects that ignores the fit/skills of victim. 2)giving everyone a default melee that is overpowered, the people that want to use knife builds couldn't since it is just standard. 3)damage boost, it is already a high damage weapon with skills. The knife skill give 20% more maxed then gun damage skills. (150% is 20% higher then 125%) The modules also add 50% instead of 10%. The damage is there if you know how to get i
The knife dance will not be a problem. 1)The guy with the knife has probably skilled/fit for it. So, if the other suit responds with a knife he/she will die quickly. 2)The most common knife attacks will be from behind, or fast suits attacking slower ones. This will make it hard to respond by dancing with knife with faster suit. 3)The best close quarter for a gun skilled char to a knife attack will in most cases be a gun. So, it will be more one suit slashing with knife strafing, as other fires shotgun/smg. 4)when a knife dance does happen, it will probably be two char that skilled and built knife fits. So, this is the playstyle they both like, still not a problem.
The slasher fps or knife dance some are worried about will not occur, as most will spent sp/slots on something else. |
Nexus Cavor
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
88
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Posted - 2012.07.18 05:49:00 -
[105] - Quote
No to the knife being some major OMGBBQ weapon. It should be a last ditch effort to save yourself and even then it should have a terrible time at doing so. Fix the swing animation and responsiveness as well as the hit detection but do not make the knife a 1HK. That would be terribly unbalanced as it would deal enough damage then to actually hurt a tank more than a Forge Gun if you were to take raw damage values. |
Crimson MoonV
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
658
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 05:57:00 -
[106] - Quote
Nexus Cavor wrote:No to the knife being some major OMGBBQ weapon. It should be a last ditch effort to save yourself and even then it should have a terrible time at doing so. Why should the knife/sword be terrible?
This is new eden.
This is the future.
I am pretty sure they have perfected the nova sword. |
Nexus Cavor
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
88
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 06:02:00 -
[107] - Quote
I said knife. A sword should have way different properties in terms of destructive force. I still think it should be less than a guns potential though.
If I want awesome melee weapons then I will go play Dark Millennium Online thank you very much... |
STB-stlcarlos989 EV
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
936
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 06:14:00 -
[108] - Quote
I didn't read any of these posts but the answer is NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
DrunkMonk 1
Walmart Brand Mercenaries
26
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 06:58:00 -
[109] - Quote
Buck Hardback wrote:I wouldn't train for half a year to acquire a heavy with massive slow tank just to be 1HK'ed by a scout from behind. Half a year of game skill time nullified by a scout militia with zero skills. No one would use anything but scouts in CQC for knife spam. Good way to bust up the game in one move.
Knifes needs to be cleaner and more responsive. Yet 1HK is simply a horrible mechanic for those with no gun game in a damn gun game. I agree the knife was really bad for a while on mag at one point 33% of all player kills were knife kills. |
Laurent Cazaderon
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
1155
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 07:30:00 -
[110] - Quote
OHK with knives ? Who had that ****** idea ?
As much as i agree with the fact that the knife needs improvement at the moment, its damage are fine. I knifed a heavy last week in 5-6 hit. Considering the armor of the guy it seems logical.
Only real problem with the Nova Knife is its range of effect and its hit detection. In fact, those two things are linked. If there was a skill to enhance the range of nova knife hits, it would certainly be fine as it is.
But, there isnt. And its way too random to hit a guy even at very close range.
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Templar Two
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
459
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 07:31:00 -
[111] - Quote
Did anybody bother to read/search this. |
Finn Kempers
BetaMax.
222
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 07:57:00 -
[112] - Quote
I have killed people with knifes when my SMG ran out of ammo. It's meant to be a BACKUP weapon, a last resort. IF my whole SMG clip is empty, spam R3 and L3 (Thanks Socal_Ninja) to quickknife and they are dead. Easy as. Look at it this way, at least Dust follows something CoD doesn't. It's called LOGIC. |
Sephoran Griffith
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
96
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 13:43:00 -
[113] - Quote
FrierTheChosenOne wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Its designed to finish off somone you just emptied out your magazine out on. Also Dropsuit armor is made of stuff you cant really cut with a regular knife (since most are nanite forged) so energy assisted blades where made to cut though the materials and the fact that personal shields have gotten good enough to asorb hits traveling near lightspit from a dart it would be good enough to stop a plasma edged knife. Thus you have to cut though the shields as well. I already said i don't care about space stuff, it's an FPS and the knife should be consistent not an awful unused weapon. You might not care about it, but it is the SETTING of this game. Don't like it then mosey on back to WW2 where you belong. |
RolyatDerTeufel
D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION
1648
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 13:48:00 -
[114] - Quote
Finn Kempers wrote:I have killed people with knifes when my SMG ran out of ammo. It's meant to be a BACKUP weapon, a last resort. IF my whole SMG clip is empty, spam R3 and L3 (Thanks Socal_Ninja) to quickknife and they are dead. Easy as. Look at it this way, at least Dust follows something CoD doesn't. It's called LOGIC.
My knife is used when I can.
Get a lvl 5 and the module it'll do fine. but you'll need to give up some shield tanking or damage mod depending on your fitting.
Seems fine to me |
Dalton Smithe
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
45
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 13:52:00 -
[115] - Quote
FrierTheChosenOne wrote:I don't care if we're in space or whatever, as it stands it has a very long swing time and barely any damage. It needs to be one hit kill like in all other good FPS.
They made the knife this way for a reason. This is not your typical FPS game, it is a FPSMMORPG. The knife has to go through the shield and then the armor....it's part of the mechanics of the game. |
DonRodie II
14
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 14:50:00 -
[116] - Quote
Unless theY going to put multiple knives and swords in this game. Knifing should be a one hit kill because that makes the game fun when u can bail yourself out with your knife after shooting a enemy thats has more skill points and he doesnt die after 50 shots. |
GamerEvan77
One-Armed Bandits Orbital Rights
8
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 14:53:00 -
[117] - Quote
I do suppose that a 1HK knife attack would be a bit unbalanced. But you should be able to have a custom fitting where your knife if really powerful. That being said, hit detection for the knife needs to be improved A TON, and so does it's range and overall damage, regardless of one's skills and fittings. Make it so that if you shoot the person a little and then knife them that you kill them, not you having to waist a full clip and then knife them 2 or 3 times to get the kill. Fix those issues, and no one will complain about a 1HK anymore. |
Zev Caldari
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
94
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 14:53:00 -
[118] - Quote
No. Just no.
For everyone wanting "finishers" and "1hko I win" knives I say no. As has already been pointed out if you skill into knives and run a knife-centric kit you can 1hko many dropsuits as is. Why don't we see that very often? Because it's a fulfillment of the proverbial "bringing a knife to a gun-fight" this isn't CoD or MW where you can sprint like a madman and then stab someone to death just because you have a knife (even if it is a nova knife); we have tons of armor, shields, and enhanced bodies.
Also, if you think the knife is slow you're doing it wrong. You can swing hyper fast, I'll let you figure out how on your own. |
GamerEvan77
One-Armed Bandits Orbital Rights
8
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 14:55:00 -
[119] - Quote
DonRodie II wrote:Unless theY going to put multiple knives and swords in this game. Knifing should be a one hit kill because that makes the game fun when u can bail yourself out with your knife after shooting a enemy thats has more skill points and he doesnt die after 50 shots.
Exactly what im saying! Or at least make it so that after you've shot them, then you can kill them will less than 3 knifing attacks. More like, 1. But not so that you just kill them without having shot them first. Just beef up the damage, range, and hit detection. |
RolyatDerTeufel
D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION
1648
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 14:59:00 -
[120] - Quote
GamerEvan77 wrote:DonRodie II wrote:Unless theY going to put multiple knives and swords in this game. Knifing should be a one hit kill because that makes the game fun when u can bail yourself out with your knife after shooting a enemy thats has more skill points and he doesnt die after 50 shots. Exactly what im saying! Or at least make it so that after you've shot them, then you can kill them will less than 3 knifing attacks. More like, 1. But not so that you just kill them without having shot them first. Just beef up the damage, range, and hit detection.
Range i can agree with.
But other then that. It's exactly like you explained it.
What skill for Knife Handling do you people have that make you QQ about it? I had lvl 5 last build, seemed fine. So far only lvl 4 and it does just fine.
Stop crying. |
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DonRodie II
14
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Posted - 2012.07.18 15:08:00 -
[121] - Quote
Knifing =1hk
Lol if they let someone get close enough to knife them then they deserve to die |
VigSniper101
204
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 15:13:00 -
[122] - Quote
DonRodie II wrote:Knifing =1hk
Lol if they let someone get close enough to knife them then they deserve to die
If a Scout is doing their job ...you should find said knife in back
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RolyatDerTeufel
D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION
1648
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 15:17:00 -
[123] - Quote
VigSniper101 wrote:DonRodie II wrote:Knifing =1hk
Lol if they let someone get close enough to knife them then they deserve to die If a Scout is doing their job ...you should find said knife in back
I can do my scout suit wonders to get close enough to you. |
DonRodie II
14
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 15:31:00 -
[124] - Quote
RolyatDerTeufel wrote:VigSniper101 wrote:DonRodie II wrote:Knifing =1hk
Lol if they let someone get close enough to knife them then they deserve to die If a Scout is doing their job ...you should find said knife in back I can do my scout suit wonders to get close enough to you.
Kool you should name your scout suit ninja |
RolyatDerTeufel
D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION
1648
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 15:35:00 -
[125] - Quote
DonRodie II wrote:RolyatDerTeufel wrote:VigSniper101 wrote:DonRodie II wrote:Knifing =1hk
Lol if they let someone get close enough to knife them then they deserve to die If a Scout is doing their job ...you should find said knife in back I can do my scout suit wonders to get close enough to you. Kool you should name your scout suit ninja
no (click smily)
Interceptor
is the name of my favorite scout suit to use. |
ICECREAMK1NG WARRIORS
99
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 16:58:00 -
[126] - Quote
I think you have your answer and the answer is, NO. If you want this stupid crap in a game go play COD or MAG where you can run through bullets and bombs for your OHK. Good job CCP, at last an FPS not an FPK.
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Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 20:13:00 -
[127] - Quote
I find it much more satisfing to be in heavy armor with an HMG inches away from the back of the head of a scout. |
DonRodie II
14
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 23:05:00 -
[128] - Quote
Seem like a lot of these eve players don't have a clue how a fps should be lmao |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 23:22:00 -
[129] - Quote
DonRodie II wrote:Seem like a lot of these eve players don't have a clue how a fps should be lmao I am not an EVE player, I am an FPS player but this is clearly a bad idea. If this was a game where people died in 3 shots, then a 1 hit kill knife would be appropriate, but this isn't the case. A one hit kill knife would be grossly overpowered compared to a regular weapons which would do insanely low damage by comparison. Just because you think this is how an FPS should be doesn't mean it is.
Please lets let this thread sink and die. |
DonRodie II
14
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 23:26:00 -
[130] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:DonRodie II wrote:Seem like a lot of these eve players don't have a clue how a fps should be lmao I am not an EVE player, I am an FPS player but this is clearly a bad idea. If this was a game where people died in 3 shots, then a 1 hit kill knife would be appropriate, but this isn't the case. A one hit kill knife would be grossly overpowered compared to a regular weapons which would do insanely low damage by comparison. Just because you think this is how an FPS should be doesn't mean it is. Please lets let this thread sink and die.
Hey maybe you right..... |
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.07.19 00:51:00 -
[131] - Quote
gangsta nachos wrote:Crimson MoonV wrote:gangsta nachos wrote:Crimson MoonV wrote:gangsta nachos wrote:Just had to jump in again and say hell no get some gun game you don't need the knife problem solved The knife does need to be fixed. Not the damage. The inconsistencies and delay. Or just give us a nova sword. Yes hit detection in general needs to be fixed but on topic the knife should never be a one hit kill change the title I didn't start the thread I can't. It is a 1HK on scouts btw. The only time you ever really get a chance to knife a scout is when they are sniping. If they are going to camp with a sniper rifle you deserve to to get 1HK tbh. I will never be a scout so I can agree with that, snipers deserve that not everyone else and I know you can't change the title sadly it says knifes should be a ohk maybe it should say knifes should be a ohk to scouts With no relevant skills/upgrades/mods/anything on either of them, a Militia Scout can survive a single knife swing, but only barely. If you spend some ISK or SPs (or both) on melee, you can shred Scouts already.
Except when you spend 5 minutes swinging and don't hit because of glitchy hit detection being made worse by a lack of obvious feedback from your swings. Not only is it REALLY HARD TO HIT when you're swinging in close combat, but it's EVEN HARDER TO TELL WHETHER YOU HIT OR NOT, and that makes more of a difference than you'd realise. Add that to the occasionally inconsistent response when you press the button (as in, it doesn't always work), and melee is currently not in a good place right now.
Knife needs to respond faster, hit detection needs fixing (in general, not just for melee), but damage is FINE as it stands.
For a while, I was arguing that the knife was too weak, but I've seen the strength of the buffs it gets, and I no longer think it needs improving. |
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