DUST Search - The knife needs to be 1HK

gangsta nachos wrote:

FrierTheChosenOne wrote:

Crimson MoonV wrote:

amarrian victorian wrote:

melee attacks should be removed from the game anyways. COD knifing used to be hard to do and a big deal, but now its a joke and as you move through 100 bullets to do a little slash for a kill.

BF3 knifing was a bit better but still its annoying to be facing and enemy then the knife animation happens that cannot be stopped when it shouldn't be killing you

Dust right now thankfully knife attacks are hard to do AND don't do whole lots of damage... next good step is to remove the knife option. using a knife is supposed to be a last resort.

This is a strafe and shoot high health fps. It need a good melee system to be a success. It shouldn't be a 1HK. But it shouldn't be useless at the same time. 2HK tbh. 1 hit for shields 1 hit for health.

This right here makes sense. Agreed.

You agree huh why 1 hit for shield with a knife ? how many shots does it take to take down a shield ? Ant one hit kill for health which we don't have it should say armor why should the knife take down all armor in one hit? How many shots would this take? I would rather the knife be in a slot on the dropsuit like everything else so I can remove it and put something in its place

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Ray seveN Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 71	Posted - 2012.07.17 20:54:00 - [61] - Quote FrierTheChosenOne wrote: Crimson MoonV wrote: amarrian victorian wrote: melee attacks should be removed from the game anyways. COD knifing used to be hard to do and a big deal, but now its a joke and as you move through 100 bullets to do a little slash for a kill. BF3 knifing was a bit better but still its annoying to be facing and enemy then the knife animation happens that cannot be stopped when it shouldn't be killing you Dust right now thankfully knife attacks are hard to do AND don't do whole lots of damage... next good step is to remove the knife option. using a knife is supposed to be a last resort. This is a strafe and shoot high health fps. It need a good melee system to be a success. It shouldn't be a 1HK. But it shouldn't be useless at the same time. 2HK tbh. 1 hit for shields 1 hit for health. This right here makes sense. Agreed. If this were to happen then I would expect it to be the end result of upgrading knife operation lv 5 and knife prof. lv 5 and thats only dependant on what kind of armor the other guy is wearing. militia-type II will be 2hk and 1 hk from the back, advance to lv4 will b 3hk and 2 hk form the back, proto will be 4hk and 3hk from the back. Having additional skills improved like mechanics lv 5 and shield upgrade lv will add in more hits to kill with a knife. I think that sums it up pretty well. Edit: Also there should be a varied degree of damage taken depending on the class thats being knifed. So scouts damage > logi damage > assault damage > heavy damage.
gangsta nachos Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 377	Posted - 2012.07.17 20:55:00 - [62] - Quote FrierTheChosenOne wrote: Crimson MoonV wrote: amarrian victorian wrote: melee attacks should be removed from the game anyways. COD knifing used to be hard to do and a big deal, but now its a joke and as you move through 100 bullets to do a little slash for a kill. BF3 knifing was a bit better but still its annoying to be facing and enemy then the knife animation happens that cannot be stopped when it shouldn't be killing you Dust right now thankfully knife attacks are hard to do AND don't do whole lots of damage... next good step is to remove the knife option. using a knife is supposed to be a last resort. This is a strafe and shoot high health fps. It need a good melee system to be a success. It shouldn't be a 1HK. But it shouldn't be useless at the same time. 2HK tbh. 1 hit for shields 1 hit for health. This right here makes sense. Agreed. You agree huh why 1 hit for shield with a knife ? how many shots does it take to take down a shield ? Ant one hit kill for health which we don't have it should say armor why should the knife take down all armor in one hit? How many shots would this take? I would rather the knife be in a slot on the dropsuit like everything else so I can remove it and put something in its place
Ray seveN Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 71	Posted - 2012.07.17 20:55:00 - [63] - Quote Crimson MoonV wrote: I don't understand what people have against the knife. Its so much more personal and romantic to kill someone with a knife then it is to shoot them. Its odd to see someone have so much satisfaction in killing some one with a knife :P
Crimson MoonV Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 658	Posted - 2012.07.17 20:58:00 - [64] - Quote gangsta nachos wrote: FrierTheChosenOne wrote: Crimson MoonV wrote: amarrian victorian wrote: melee attacks should be removed from the game anyways. COD knifing used to be hard to do and a big deal, but now its a joke and as you move through 100 bullets to do a little slash for a kill. BF3 knifing was a bit better but still its annoying to be facing and enemy then the knife animation happens that cannot be stopped when it shouldn't be killing you Dust right now thankfully knife attacks are hard to do AND don't do whole lots of damage... next good step is to remove the knife option. using a knife is supposed to be a last resort. This is a strafe and shoot high health fps. It need a good melee system to be a success. It shouldn't be a 1HK. But it shouldn't be useless at the same time. 2HK tbh. 1 hit for shields 1 hit for health. This right here makes sense. Agreed. You agree huh why 1 hit for shield with a knife ? how many shots does it take to take down a shield ? Ant one hit kill for health which we don't have it should say armor why should the knife take down all armor in one hit? How many shots would this take? I would rather the knife be in a slot on the dropsuit like everything else so I can remove it and put something in its place It already is a 1 hit for the shields on militia and scout but I have 3 points in melee.
Johnny Guilt Algintal Core Gallente Federation 50	Posted - 2012.07.17 20:58:00 - [65] - Quote You can two hit most scouts, 3 hit assault and logis. Heavies take maybe 4-6 strikes.(im speaking with only L2 knife handling here) The knifes is only for back stabing people and picking off weaken opponents,not instant kill lock on panic knifing
FrierTheChosenOne Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 27	Posted - 2012.07.17 20:59:00 - [66] - Quote gangsta nachos wrote: FrierTheChosenOne wrote: Crimson MoonV wrote: amarrian victorian wrote: melee attacks should be removed from the game anyways. COD knifing used to be hard to do and a big deal, but now its a joke and as you move through 100 bullets to do a little slash for a kill. BF3 knifing was a bit better but still its annoying to be facing and enemy then the knife animation happens that cannot be stopped when it shouldn't be killing you Dust right now thankfully knife attacks are hard to do AND don't do whole lots of damage... next good step is to remove the knife option. using a knife is supposed to be a last resort. This is a strafe and shoot high health fps. It need a good melee system to be a success. It shouldn't be a 1HK. But it shouldn't be useless at the same time. 2HK tbh. 1 hit for shields 1 hit for health. This right here makes sense. Agreed. You agree huh why 1 hit for shield with a knife ? how many shots does it take to take down a shield ? Ant one hit kill for health which we don't have it should say armor why should the knife take down all armor in one hit? How many shots would this take? I would rather the knife be in a slot on the dropsuit like everything else so I can remove it and put something in its place I read your post 2 times, it doesn't make any sense lol
Lurchasaurus SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 808	Posted - 2012.07.17 21:02:00 - [67] - Quote so the OP thinks that just because a knife is a OHK in COD that means that is somehow the pinnacle of game mechanics and Dust, the game CCP is making to break the mold and be a revolutionary cross console MMOFPS, needs to copy this or else the game is broken and unbalanced? hold on....lemme find it.....oh, here
Buzzwords Deadly Blue Dots RISE of LEGION 416	Posted - 2012.07.17 21:05:00 - [68] - Quote if i was in a room with ******, justin beiber, and this idea... and i had a gun and 2 bullets, i'd shoot this idea twice. yah... i said it. EDIT: wow adolf gets bleeped?
gangsta nachos Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 377	Posted - 2012.07.17 21:11:00 - [69] - Quote Change the title to knife works as intended
Templar Two Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 459	Posted - 2012.07.17 21:22:00 - [70] - Quote In FPS if you can get close enough to melee me that you deserved the OHK. Oh but no, better silly ballets, and struggle to kill someone that is 50cm away from you: those things are fun!

FrierTheChosenOne Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 27	Posted - 2012.07.17 21:22:00 - [71] - Quote gangsta nachos wrote: Change the title to knife works as intended i don't know how to change the title lol
Bones1182 Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 86	Posted - 2012.07.17 21:22:00 - [72] - Quote All of those FPS games tht have OHK knives, first of they aren't DUST get over it. Second last time i looked in COD my little toon wears body armor depending on what "team" you are on at te time. I, me personally have worn the U.S. Army full armor there is just about no where you can stick me with a knife that is going to instantly kill me. You could stab at my legs but that won't kill me and then Can buttstroke the crap out of your head. Now lets fast forward 3000 years and we have plasma weapons and energy shields strapped to our backs. That had better be one damn big knife. I do believe the knife needs work becuase right now it is farily pointless. If CCP really wants a knife or any kind of melee it needs to work a little better. I believe however they are aware that people aren't too happy with it and that are trying to improve it. Things like range and hit detection but that is all I think need work. Also it does need to cancel reloading I don't care if I literally drop the magazine of ammo, it beats the jerk off scout with 2 hp left getting away to be annoying again later. Well thats what I think. Oh it that was TL:DR Summary OHK knife is dumb and does not fit in this style of gameplay. Don't like it, well I don't really care.
Armatsu Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 33	Posted - 2012.07.17 21:23:00 - [73] - Quote To be fair, if you know how to use a knife then its just as potent of a weapon as a gun is at close range. When it comes to balancing a game, you can put a full clip into an enemy without dropping them due to shields and armor and i don't care how good you are with a knife, 30 rounds to the chest is more deadly than a knife in the ribs. As for all good FPS games have OHK knife, that is just absolute crap. Halo is considered one of the most competitive FPS games ever created and thats not even a 1hk melee unless it is from behind. CoD has an extremely overpowered knife and you can see that instantly by watching all of the noobs throw on their sprinter classes and running around at full speed trying to knife someone before getting blasted in the face.
Super Cargo Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 428	Posted - 2012.07.17 21:29:00 - [74] - Quote FrierTheChosenOne wrote: I don't care if we're in space or whatever, as it stands it has a very long swing time and barely any damage. It needs to be one hit kill like in all other good FPS. Yea, see, that's where you are wrong. All the ****** FPS games have OHK knives. OHK unless it is a sniper shot to the head ruins games. I agree that melee damage should be buffed, but a lot of it's uselessness is because of Dust's terrible hit detection. The actual arc of the swing could be increased as well.
Templar Two Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 459	Posted - 2012.07.17 21:34:00 - [75] - Quote Armatsu wrote: As for all good FPS games have OHK knife, that is just absolute crap. Halo is considered one of the most competitive FPS games ever created and thats not even a 1hk melee unless it is from behind. What! First competitive doesn't mean demanding. Second you forget about Quake, Unreal, CS, Operation Flashpoint & Arma, Rainbow Six, Ghost Recon, and all FPS that preceded Halo. Third: in a game bases on range combat, based on guns, the melee is the ultimate resource so it must be worth it and not be frustrating.
Chihiro Itto 66	Posted - 2012.07.17 21:41:00 - [76] - Quote This might be a dumb idea, it only just occurred to me, but an alternative to the knife mechanic might be a single-use (per clone, or limited by slot like other equipment) hand weapon that you use up close like a knife but that shorts out dropsuits and freezes the victim for a few seconds. That gives you a bonus/advantage for getting up close (which is half the point of a melee attack anyway) but doesn't do any great damage (alternatively it could do major shield damage but not break armour). Get a successful hit and you could then drop a grenade, RE, pull a gun and get free shots at point-blank range, stop a capture mid-hack or if you are otherwise weapon-less, take to your heels and get the **** out of dodge before you get gacked. Call it the Neuro-spike maybe. You can rip it to pieces now people, go ahead. I like the idea of hand weapons, but there are plenty of problems with the concept in the context of Dust as plenty of posters have already noted. That doesn't mean there aren't related and more appealing alternatives though.
Shutter Fly Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 26	Posted - 2012.07.17 21:45:00 - [77] - Quote Am I the only one around here who has taken the time to actually CALCULATE the knife damage and actually USE A KNIFE FITTING? Let me lay it out step-by-step: Base Knife Damage: 135.0HP Base Knife Damage w/ LV5 Knife Handling (50%): 202.5HP Knife Damage w/ Complex Myofibril Stimulant (50% KH LV5) (50% MS 1): 303.75HP Knife Damage w/ Complex Myofibril Stimulant x2 (50% KH LV5) (50% MS 1) (43.5% MS 2): 435.88HP Knife Damage w/ Complex Myofibril Stimulant x3 (50% KH LV5) (50% MS 1) (43.5% MS 2) (28.5% MS 3): 560.10HP _____________________________________________________ In my tests, I was able to stack two MS on a Scout A-Series suit. The hit detection was so bugged that I was almost completely unable to hit moving opponents, but that is only a temporary issue. I managed to find a lower leveled Heavy that I killed with two hits from full shields and armor. Keep in mind, Myofibril and Kinetic Catalyzers are so taxing on CPU and PG that I had room for nothing else besides a standard shotgun.
MrShooter01 Expert Intervention Caldari State 268	Posted - 2012.07.17 21:45:00 - [78] - Quote ^^ Maxed out knife handling and a damage mod is more than enough to kill most scouts in one hit, and most assaults in two. If the hit registration was better (and it will be, eventually) I'd consider that a pretty valuable opening tool for sneaking up on someone, and you'd probably kill someone you got into a dance-off with if you hit him with at least a couple of bullets. What's that? You can't instant kill a heavy or anyone with HP extenders? WELL THAT'S OUTRAGEOUS. A KNIFE SHOULD BE A BETTER CHOICE THAN A SHOTGUN FOR CLOSE ENCOUNTERS. Let's all petition CCP to add throwing knives and neigh-indestructible ballistic shields and turn this into another great game where every firefight is determined by who can survive getting into stabbing range first! Call of duty does it, why shouldn't we? I want to be able to one-hit-kill a tank with my knife!
Raynor Ragna 266	Posted - 2012.07.17 21:45:00 - [79] - Quote No to one hit kill
Waruiko DUST G I A N T 90	Posted - 2012.07.17 21:51:00 - [80] - Quote I think that with all this 'discussion' about what the Nova Knife SHOULD do that we need to take a look at what it already does. This means I get to math all over your faces! All numbers from memory as we can't log in to check right now! Knife Base Damage is 135 That's a 3 or four hit kill for most non heavy suits tops Knife skill gives +10% per level up to 50% Adjusted Knife damage is 202.5 That will kill in 2 or three hits and if used after running your guns dry likely in just one hit Because EVE and Dust both support specialization we'll assume you've got 2 +25% knife mods in your Highs and that they suffer stacking penalties This give you knife damage of about 297.1 This will two shot just about everything but a heavy and will one shot militia or scout stuff fairly often. The knife has plenty of power to it as is when you specialize into it just like everything else. EDIT: looks like someone else got to this first

Anatoly Gasputin Doomheim 40	Posted - 2012.07.17 21:51:00 - [81] - Quote So what I gathered this far was that a knife should penetrate my heavy armor that's "every vital area of the wearer is protected by 25mm composite ceramic shell or high tensile steel plates, layered with impact absorbing, compressed carbon latticework" with one hit? Even though the knife's blade is heated plasma edge. An inch (bit less actually but close enough) of ceramic/steel plates should be able to deflect a good number of knife blows. That said, this is one of the most stupidest ideas I have seen thus far.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.07.17 21:53:00 - [82] - Quote Templar Two wrote: Armatsu wrote: As for all good FPS games have OHK knife, that is just absolute crap. Halo is considered one of the most competitive FPS games ever created and thats not even a 1hk melee unless it is from behind. What! First competitive doesn't mean demanding. Second you forget about Quake, Unreal, CS, Operation Flashpoint & Arma, Rainbow Six, Ghost Recon, and all FPS that preceded Halo. Third: in a game bases on range combat, based on guns, the melee is the ultimate resource so it must be worth it and not be frustrating. Lets use a couple of your examples then, shall we? Quake: Melee = Axe = NOT capable of one-shotting even with only base health and no armour. Unreal: Unreal didn't even HAVE melee. How about we go back even further? Doom. Melee was fists, which did barely any damage, or a chainsaw, which could slaughter, but was a sustain damage-over-time effect. There was also "berserk mode" which made your punches way stronger when using fists, BUT STILL NOT ENOUGH TO ONE-SHOT SOMEBODY. With NO upgrades to melee effectiveness, it feels weak, but that's kind of the point. And upgrading the right skills means it CAN one-shot a Scout and possibly even a Militia Assault Dropsuit. This seems fair to me, and Heavies DEFINITELY shouldn't be vulnerable to one-shot melee. The problem with the knife ISN'T in the damage, but in the mechanics. Often when I'm in close quarters and click the stick in for a melee attack, nothing happens. I've had problems with 4 separate controllers, none of which have ever had any issues with this in other games, and all of which have been used for other games since I noticed the problem in DUST. Responsiveness is a problem, and part of that is the inability to use the button to interrupt a reload. Another, more serious issue is the lack of feedback. When your swing misses, it's fine. When it hits, there HAS to be a CLEAR visual cue (the crosshair flash isn't as easy to see through the knife animation) and more importantly, WE NEED TO HEAR IT. Adding a slight vibration effect on impact wouldn't be a bad thing either. Not giving proper feedback means we don't know when we're hitting and when we're missing, and when the game has the hit detection problems still present in DUST, that gives the illusion of melee being FAR weaker than it really is.
Victor Euel Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 28	Posted - 2012.07.17 22:13:00 - [83] - Quote Longshot Ravenwood wrote: With proper skills & modules it IS a 2-3 hit kill, unless you're trying to take on a heavy. I've had a scout knife me to death while in my heavy suit. Couldn't freaking turn fast enough to kill him before he bled out my suit's reserves. This exactly, I've killed heavies with no knife skills and while in a standard suit. The knife isn't bad, you just don't know how to use it.
Bzeer MG GROUP 41	Posted - 2012.07.17 22:19:00 - [84] - Quote I don't think knifes should be standard issue one hit kill weapons. I do believe there should be additional blades availble to increase range damage and speed of repeating. I think a fast moving scout with a sword type blade that could do 3 quick swings would be a pretty scary close quarter combatant. Customblades such as this would replace a sidearm, or a blade slot would have to be added tithe fitting system.
Dante Daedrik Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 97	Posted - 2012.07.17 22:37:00 - [85] - Quote It'd be nice to be able to walk up behind snipers, not even bothering to waste ammo, but with a slice of the knife. I always find myself having to shoot down their shields and some (with protosuits and other shield/armor mods) are able to escape or efficiently retaliate even though I've emptied a clip on them.
Patrick Dubeau 0	Posted - 2012.07.17 22:38:00 - [86] - Quote I Vote for 1 Hit Kill... with a normal killing range
Longshot Ravenwood Algintal Core Gallente Federation 680	Posted - 2012.07.17 22:42:00 - [87] - Quote Patrick Dubeau wrote: I Vote for 1 Hit Kill... with a normal killing range Equip remote explosives. Problem solved.
Th3rdSun L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 323	Posted - 2012.07.17 23:01:00 - [88] - Quote As it stands right now,the knife is hot garbage.The range is too short,and the swipe is kind of unresponsive,even if you have the proper amount of energy to use it. I think the only way that the knife should be a OHK is if your enemy has no shield left and you actually have the knife completely maxed out.Now this is for anything under a maxed out heavy.I also wouldn't be opposed to a OHK to an enemy from behind while they are crouching.I remember reading someone mentioning this before,but there should also be a stab to go along with the swipe.Tap R3 for the swipe,and hold R3 for the stab.The stab could be a OHK,but it's use on your stamina should be very large.Maybe even charge it,and the more you charge it,the more damage,the more energy it uses,but also the longer you are exposed to an attack. I think CCP has a good theory with the knife though.Unlike MAG,where you actually CAN take a knife to a gun fight,and win,they have eliminated that nonsense from this game,and this is coming form a person that racked up over 20 knife kills.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2012.07.17 23:24:00 - [89] - Quote Like I said though lets get the fixes in place first before we worry more about numbers. I havent bothered training the knife yet but it worked really well when I ran out of ammo and the guy is in my face.
KingBlade82 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 56	Posted - 2012.07.17 23:51:00 - [90] - Quote FrierTheChosenOne wrote: I don't care if we're in space or whatever, as it stands it has a very long swing time and barely any damage. It needs to be one hit kill like in all other good FPS. a knife should only be a one hit ko if u cant be seen aka stealth or behind the player or critical enough to kill scout and assault but heavies seem to be pretty well covered idk if they have a weak point so to speak and if they add other melee weapons it should not be a one hit ko



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