Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2012.07.17 21:53:00 -
[1] - Quote
Templar Two wrote:Armatsu wrote:
As for all good FPS games have OHK knife, that is just absolute crap. Halo is considered one of the most competitive FPS games ever created and thats not even a 1hk melee unless it is from behind.
What! First competitive doesn't mean demanding. Second you forget about Quake, Unreal, CS, Operation Flashpoint & Arma, Rainbow Six, Ghost Recon, and all FPS that preceded Halo. Third: in a game bases on range combat, based on guns, the melee is the ultimate resource so it must be worth it and not be frustrating.
Lets use a couple of your examples then, shall we?
Quake: Melee = Axe = NOT capable of one-shotting even with only base health and no armour.
Unreal: Unreal didn't even HAVE melee.
How about we go back even further? Doom. Melee was fists, which did barely any damage, or a chainsaw, which could slaughter, but was a sustain damage-over-time effect. There was also "berserk mode" which made your punches way stronger when using fists, BUT STILL NOT ENOUGH TO ONE-SHOT SOMEBODY.
With NO upgrades to melee effectiveness, it feels weak, but that's kind of the point. And upgrading the right skills means it CAN one-shot a Scout and possibly even a Militia Assault Dropsuit. This seems fair to me, and Heavies DEFINITELY shouldn't be vulnerable to one-shot melee.
The problem with the knife ISN'T in the damage, but in the mechanics. Often when I'm in close quarters and click the stick in for a melee attack, nothing happens. I've had problems with 4 separate controllers, none of which have ever had any issues with this in other games, and all of which have been used for other games since I noticed the problem in DUST. Responsiveness is a problem, and part of that is the inability to use the button to interrupt a reload.
Another, more serious issue is the lack of feedback. When your swing misses, it's fine. When it hits, there HAS to be a CLEAR visual cue (the crosshair flash isn't as easy to see through the knife animation) and more importantly, WE NEED TO HEAR IT. Adding a slight vibration effect on impact wouldn't be a bad thing either. Not giving proper feedback means we don't know when we're hitting and when we're missing, and when the game has the hit detection problems still present in DUST, that gives the illusion of melee being FAR weaker than it really is. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.07.19 00:51:00 -
[2] - Quote
gangsta nachos wrote:Crimson MoonV wrote:gangsta nachos wrote:Crimson MoonV wrote:gangsta nachos wrote:Just had to jump in again and say hell no get some gun game you don't need the knife problem solved The knife does need to be fixed. Not the damage. The inconsistencies and delay. Or just give us a nova sword.  Yes hit detection in general needs to be fixed but on topic the knife should never be a one hit kill change the title I didn't start the thread I can't.  It is a 1HK on scouts btw. The only time you ever really get a chance to knife a scout is when they are sniping. If they are going to camp with a sniper rifle you deserve to to get 1HK tbh. I will never be a scout so I can agree with that, snipers deserve that not everyone else and I know you can't change the title sadly it says knifes should be a ohk maybe it should say knifes should be a ohk to scouts
With no relevant skills/upgrades/mods/anything on either of them, a Militia Scout can survive a single knife swing, but only barely. If you spend some ISK or SPs (or both) on melee, you can shred Scouts already.
Except when you spend 5 minutes swinging and don't hit because of glitchy hit detection being made worse by a lack of obvious feedback from your swings. Not only is it REALLY HARD TO HIT when you're swinging in close combat, but it's EVEN HARDER TO TELL WHETHER YOU HIT OR NOT, and that makes more of a difference than you'd realise. Add that to the occasionally inconsistent response when you press the button (as in, it doesn't always work), and melee is currently not in a good place right now.
Knife needs to respond faster, hit detection needs fixing (in general, not just for melee), but damage is FINE as it stands.
For a while, I was arguing that the knife was too weak, but I've seen the strength of the buffs it gets, and I no longer think it needs improving. |