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Someone explain the thinking behind the AR ROF bonus to me

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Eskel Bondfree I want to be CEO 199	Posted - 2015.10.09 15:37:00 - [1] - Quote If I understand correctly, the reason for the AR ROF bonus on Gallente assauts was that assault rifles in general underperformed. So now, the ARs are great on Gallente assaults, but they still underperform for everybody else except the GalAss. Working as intended? I don't get it.
Kierkegaard Soren Eridani Light Horse Battalion 974	Posted - 2015.10.09 15:48:00 - [2] - Quote Essentially: Many of us complained that the AR was underperforming. Rattati looked into it and fed back that in terms of potential ability the AR looked pretty solid on paper, but conceded that in reality saw little use. He concluded that this was to do with GalAssault players, finding there racial skill redundant for their racial weapons, were fitting the more popular ARR instead. If the GalAssault could give a solid bonus to AR's they'd see more play. And technically, this is entirelt true. I haven't seen this many Duvolle AR's being fielded by protosquads since the good old days (ahem) of early Uprising. Dedicated Commando. "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing."
Lightning35 Delta514 The Warlords Legion 2	Posted - 2015.10.09 15:48:00 - [3] - Quote Yes. It is working as intended. They are now effective on galassaults. The same way scramblers where very effective on Amarr because of heat, the same way you have better control with rail rifles on caldari, and the same way you can spam with minmatar. It encourages racial fits. CEO of T-W-L YouTube- Lightning35 Delta514 Twitter- @LD3514
Kierkegaard Soren Eridani Light Horse Battalion 974	Posted - 2015.10.09 15:56:00 - [4] - Quote I think it's been a terribly backwards approach to fixing the AR family and doesn't deal with the core issue that the AR is just not hard-hitting enough on its own merits, but you won't hear much of that from the forums; GalAssault slayers are having a mighty fine second wind right now. Dedicated Commando. "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing."
Summa Militum Art.of.Death 1	Posted - 2015.10.09 15:59:00 - [5] - Quote Eskel Bondfree wrote: If I understand correctly, the reason for the AR ROF bonus on Gallente assauts was that assault rifles in general underperformed. So now, the ARs are great on Gallente assaults, but they still underperform for everybody else except the GalAss. Working as intended? I don't get it. The only Assault Rifle that was underperforming was the Vanilla Assault Rifle; the RoF increase to Breach Assault Rifles was not needed. Also, you need to use weapons that compliment your suit for best results. If you are not skilled into Gallente Assault then don't run with the Assault Rifle.
Summa Militum Art.of.Death 1	Posted - 2015.10.09 16:00:00 - [6] - Quote Lightning35 Delta514 wrote: Yes. It is working as intended. They are now effective on galassaults. The same way scramblers where very effective on Amarr because of heat, the same way you have better control with rail rifles on caldari, and the same way you can spam with minmatar. It encourages racial fits. The Breach Assault Rifle should not have received the RoF bonus.
Eskel Bondfree I want to be CEO 199	Posted - 2015.10.09 16:04:00 - [7] - Quote Summa Militum wrote: Also, you need to use weapons that compliment your suit for best results. If you are not skilled into Gallente Assault then don't run with the Assault Rifle. Well, what about logis, scouts, commandos? Should they just use shot guns, mass drivers and side arms? More generally, I belive every weapon should be a valid choice on any suit, not matter of its race. Freedom of choice, this is the core of Dust to me.
CELESTA AUNGM Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 664	Posted - 2015.10.09 16:07:00 - [8] - Quote My contribution to this thread only opens another wound perhaps,.. but I think it does make sense to give the ROF bonus to Gallente only. The idea that "the weapon in its default-form should give a tad more lethal output and smoother performance when mated to the dropsuit-Race it was engineered for", than when it is simply picked up and plugged into one of the other Race's suits,... always should have been "the intended way it works", to me. If Amar made the Scrambler-ice cream burner, they made it with every characteristic of THEIR dropsuits on the blackboard. So if the Minmatar grab a consignment of Scramblers and use them on THEIR dropsuits, there shouldn't be a perfect marriage... Or let's say, the Scrambler married to an Amar suit should always give "fits like a glove" bonus performance, while if any of the other three races simply pick it up and plug it in, they get 99.8% performance, with room for some damage modules if they want to do what the Amar do. The same way "RACE" is more and more starting to play a painful part in our combat (now with Caldari gear users learning more and more about the Caldari 'shoot from cover' mantra in combat), I'm happy to see weaponry show a bias to their racial origins too. NOT a severe bias, but a "teak-bonus" bias that you can take advantage of if you show more Racial allegiance. Universe of good wishes for the 49, especially CCP Eterne... No story can have life without writers and publishers.
Kierkegaard Soren Eridani Light Horse Battalion 974	Posted - 2015.10.09 16:14:00 - [9] - Quote I second that weapons should always be viable based on two key elements: 1) Inherent merit of the weapon; ie "good stats". 2) Player skill with that weapon. Pointing in the general direction of your enemy, pulling the trigger and getting a +50 is a poor weapon for the overall meta. I've always argued that the vanilla AR needed an inherent RoF bonus more than anything else. When you're working within it's optimal you're essentially going toe-to-toe with HMG heavies, shotty scouts and the like. It's difficult to assault at CQC ranges with the AR because you'll always be up against a gun that has either higher alpha or higher dps. You never felt like you were in your element. Now, the GalAssault bonus makes the AR shine for addressing that issue. But it's sad that only the Assault players can enjoy it. I'm hesitent to run vanilla AR on my Galmando, favouring the range and stopping power of the breach/TAC over the standard variant, even on my assault fits. I'd rather see the RoF given to the vanilla AR as a buff, so that everyone can enjoy it, but I accept that that still leaves GalAssault players with sub-par suit bonuses as a result. Dedicated Commando. "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing."
Aeon Amadi 12	Posted - 2015.10.09 16:18:00 - [10] - Quote Summa Militum wrote: Eskel Bondfree wrote: If I understand correctly, the reason for the AR ROF bonus on Gallente assauts was that assault rifles in general underperformed. So now, the ARs are great on Gallente assaults, but they still underperform for everybody else except the GalAss. Working as intended? I don't get it. The only Assault Rifle that was underperforming was the Vanilla Assault Rifle; the RoF increase to Breach Assault Rifles was not needed. Also, you need to use weapons that compliment your suit for best results. If you are not skilled into Gallente Assault then don't run with the Assault Rifle. From what I've seen (not talking about in-game) this isn't entirely correct. The AR family sees (saw) the least use out of the entire rifle line-up with the Burst and Tactical being the most under-used rifles in the game. Burst/Tac numbers were so low that they barely even registered on the chart. Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog Skype: nomistrav

Kierkegaard Soren Eridani Light Horse Battalion 974	Posted - 2015.10.09 16:24:00 - [11] - Quote Which is odd, because the TAC was the most viable out of the whole family to my eyes. What I'd like to ask is, knowing this, and with the full intent of making a pass at the AR family to bring it up to a more competitive level, why was the resulting buff made exclusive to the GalAssault, with the explicit intention of that buff only affecting the vanilla AR and not any other variant? Gal players are having a whale of a time at the moment, and fair play to them, but the AR family is exactly where it was pre-patch. Dedicated Commando. "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing."
Summa Militum Art.of.Death 1	Posted - 2015.10.09 16:34:00 - [12] - Quote Eskel Bondfree wrote: Summa Militum wrote: Also, you need to use weapons that compliment your suit for best results. If you are not skilled into Gallente Assault then don't run with the Assault Rifle. Well, what about logis, scouts, commandos? Should they just use shot guns, mass drivers and side arms? More generally, I belive every weapon should be a valid choice on any suit, not matter of its race. Freedom of choice, this is the core of Dust to me. You can use whatever weapon you want; that is your freedom of choice. Understand though that certain suits get bonuses for particular weapons.
Summa Militum Art.of.Death 1	Posted - 2015.10.09 16:53:00 - [13] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Summa Militum wrote: Eskel Bondfree wrote: If I understand correctly, the reason for the AR ROF bonus on Gallente assauts was that assault rifles in general underperformed. So now, the ARs are great on Gallente assaults, but they still underperform for everybody else except the GalAss. Working as intended? I don't get it. The only Assault Rifle that was underperforming was the Vanilla Assault Rifle; the RoF increase to Breach Assault Rifles was not needed. Also, you need to use weapons that compliment your suit for best results. If you are not skilled into Gallente Assault then don't run with the Assault Rifle. From what I've seen (not talking about in-game) this isn't entirely correct. The AR family sees (saw) the least use out of the entire rifle line-up with the Burst and Tactical being the most under-used rifles in the game. Burst/Tac numbers were so low that they barely even registered on the chart. I can understand the usage of the Tactical and Burst Assault Rifles being low; they are great weapons at range but if someone gets to close to you those guns are very inconvenient, especially the Tactical. The Breach Assault Rifle though I feel might become too OP if too many people start to develop decent gun game. I guess time will tell on this one though.
chill penguin Red and Silver Hand 635	Posted - 2015.10.09 16:55:00 - [14] - Quote The Breach better not become OP, because that is my baby. VAHZZ.'s alt, because like Badger, i ain't scuuurred. #freecubs
501st Headstrong 0uter.Heaven 2	Posted - 2015.10.09 17:00:00 - [15] - Quote Am I the only one who can kill a Gal Assault???/ #PortDust514 Youtuber :) Type my name 07
Regnier Feros Dead Man's Game 873	Posted - 2015.10.09 17:02:00 - [16] - Quote 501st Headstrong wrote: Am I the only one who can kill a Gal Assault???/ Killed one with my Carthum Assault Scrambler pistol earlier I LIKE PIE
Summa Militum Art.of.Death 1	Posted - 2015.10.09 17:20:00 - [17] - Quote 501st Headstrong wrote: Am I the only one who can kill a Gal Assault???/ I can kill a GalAssault, but I am a GalAss as well so that might have something to do with it.
Jonny D Buelle The Warlords Legion 2	Posted - 2015.10.09 17:57:00 - [18] - Quote Eskel Bondfree wrote: Summa Militum wrote: Also, you need to use weapons that compliment your suit for best results. If you are not skilled into Gallente Assault then don't run with the Assault Rifle. Well, what about logis, scouts, commandos? Should they just use shot guns, mass drivers and side arms? More generally, I belive every weapon should be a valid choice on any suit, not matter of its race. Freedom of choice, this is the core of Dust to me. The freedom of choice still exists. I can run any suit with any weapon. It is recommended you use the racial rifle when running a specific assault suit, but nothing is stopping you from strapping an AScR to a GalAss, or a RR to an AmarrAss. Also nothing is etopping logis and commandos and scouts from choosing whatever they feel comfortable with. Also I am a bit hurt your didnt mention us Sentinels, we can use light weapons too! If we wanted too.. Also think of it in terms of ships in EVE. You could fit projectile turrets on an Amarr frigate, but it will underperform, so you would want to fit Laser turrets instead. Director of T-W-L Keeper of the List Lord of Scrubs
Jonny D Buelle The Warlords Legion 2	Posted - 2015.10.09 17:58:00 - [19] - Quote 501st Headstrong wrote: Am I the only one who can kill a Gal Assault???/ HMG point blank kills anyone. Director of T-W-L Keeper of the List Lord of Scrubs
Eskel Bondfree I want to be CEO 199	Posted - 2015.10.09 18:33:00 - [20] - Quote Jonny D Buelle wrote: Eskel Bondfree wrote: Summa Militum wrote: Also, you need to use weapons that compliment your suit for best results. If you are not skilled into Gallente Assault then don't run with the Assault Rifle. Well, what about logis, scouts, commandos? Should they just use shot guns, mass drivers and side arms? More generally, I belive every weapon should be a valid choice on any suit, not matter of its race. Freedom of choice, this is the core of Dust to me. The freedom of choice still exists. I can run any suit with any weapon. It is recommended you use the racial rifle when running a specific assault suit, but nothing is stopping you from strapping an AScR to a GalAss, or a RR to an AmarrAss. Also nothing is etopping logis and commandos and scouts from choosing whatever they feel comfortable with. Also I am a bit hurt your didnt mention us Sentinels, we can use light weapons too! If we wanted too.. Also think of it in terms of ships in EVE. You could fit projectile turrets on an Amarr frigate, but it will underperform, so you would want to fit Laser turrets instead. I did not mention Sents because I feared people would just start flaming if I suggested a Sent player could use anything but a heavy weapon... About your point, though: if every weapon but one underperforms on a suit, than I don't consider the other weapons a viable choice anymore. Viable is the key word here. In EVE, nobody ever fits anything but racial weapons, it's common knowledge that anything else will inevitably result in total sh!tfit 99% of the time. Frankly, I don't even know why you can fit non racial weapons in EVE, because it doesn't make much sense. In other words, there is a choice, but it doesn't really matter. I don't want to see Dust become like this. But my point was: the AR should perform well as a weapon on its own, it should perform well on logis, scouts, commandos, and sentinels (and basic suits!), not only on assaults. So I was confused when the AR was buffed for assaults only, even though most people seemed to believe that the AR was a bit weak in general.

Alcina Nektaria KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 383	Posted - 2015.10.09 18:41:00 - [21] - Quote Eskel Bondfree wrote: Summa Militum wrote: Also, you need to use weapons that compliment your suit for best results. If you are not skilled into Gallente Assault then don't run with the Assault Rifle. Well, what about logis, scouts, commandos? Should they just use shot guns, mass drivers and side arms? More generally, I belive every weapon should be a valid choice on any suit, not matter of its race. Freedom of choice, this is the core of Dust to me. Logis aren't specifically meant to shoot anything, which is why they don't get wepaon bonuses but rather they get equipment bonuses. Commandos DO get a bonus to some weapons within their race. By no means is CCP telling you that you HAVE to run racial weapons on racial suits, or they would lock them in that way. They are trying to encourage players to want to be racially correct by giving bonuses to sticking within a race. Eve runs the same mechanic. You can customize to your hearts desire, but those who are loyalists get bonuses. It's a nice feature imho. #GallenteLoyalist KEQ and ROFL. Diplomat. D4GG3R is my mom. Only REAL pancakes wear dresses.GÖÑ
Jonny D Buelle The Warlords Legion 2	Posted - 2015.10.09 18:42:00 - [22] - Quote Eskel Bondfree wrote: Jonny D Buelle wrote: Eskel Bondfree wrote: Summa Militum wrote: Also, you need to use weapons that compliment your suit for best results. If you are not skilled into Gallente Assault then don't run with the Assault Rifle. Well, what about logis, scouts, commandos? Should they just use shot guns, mass drivers and side arms? More generally, I belive every weapon should be a valid choice on any suit, not matter of its race. Freedom of choice, this is the core of Dust to me. The freedom of choice still exists. I can run any suit with any weapon. It is recommended you use the racial rifle when running a specific assault suit, but nothing is stopping you from strapping an AScR to a GalAss, or a RR to an AmarrAss. Also nothing is etopping logis and commandos and scouts from choosing whatever they feel comfortable with. Also I am a bit hurt your didnt mention us Sentinels, we can use light weapons too! If we wanted too.. Also think of it in terms of ships in EVE. You could fit projectile turrets on an Amarr frigate, but it will underperform, so you would want to fit Laser turrets instead. I did not mention Sents because I feared people would just start flaming if I suggested a Sent player could use anything but a heavy weapon... About your point, though: if every weapon but one underperforms on a suit, than I don't consider the other weapons a viable choice anymore. Viable is the key word here. In EVE, nobody ever fits anything but racial weapons, it's common knowledge that anything else will inevitably result in total sh!tfit 99% of the time. Frankly, I don't even know why you can fit non racial weapons in EVE, because it doesn't make much sense. In other words, there is a choice, but it doesn't really matter. I don't want to see Dust become like this. But my point was: the AR should perform well as a weapon on its own, it should perform well on logis, scouts, commandos, and sentinels (and basic suits!), not only on assaults. So I was confused when the AR was buffed for assaults only, even though most people seemed to believe that the AR was a bit weak in general. Have you not seen a Minmatar Assault using a shotgun and wrecking sh.t up? Or a Gallente Assault using an RR and racking in the kills? Last night I saw a few of them. So using a non racial weapon on an assault suit is still viable, it comes down to your skills as a player and how you fit your suit. Yes the vanilla AR is weak, but the TAR or the Breach in the hands of a skilled Gallente Commando wrecks sh.t up. Sure Logis and Scouts and Sentinels underperform with it. But it happens, the changes that CCP put in have brought the AR back into the fold though which is brilliant. Director of T-W-L Keeper of the List Lord of Scrubs
Eskel Bondfree I want to be CEO 199	Posted - 2015.10.09 19:10:00 - [23] - Quote Jonny D Buelle wrote: Have you not seen a Minmatar Assault using a shotgun and wrecking sh.t up? Or a Gallente Assault using an RR and racking in the kills? Last night I saw a few of them. So using a non racial weapon on an assault suit is still viable, it comes down to your skills as a player and how you fit your suit. Yes the vanilla AR is weak, but the TAR or the Breach in the hands of a skilled Gallente Commando wrecks sh.t up. Sure Logis and Scouts and Sentinels underperform with it. But it happens, the changes that CCP put in have brought the AR back into the fold though which is brilliant. I didn't claim that Dust already is the same as EVE, I said I don't want it to become like it. This is what I objected to: Summa Militum wrote: If you are not skilled into Gallente Assault then don't run with the Assault Rifle. The AR should not underperform on any suit. Period. Making it only viable on a single suit does not seem logical to me.
Cesar Geronimo DUST University Ivy League 115	Posted - 2015.10.10 03:26:00 - [24] - Quote Eskel Bondfree wrote: If I understand correctly, the reason for the AR ROF bonus on Gallente assauts was that assault rifles in general underperformed. So now, the ARs are great on Gallente assaults, but they still underperform for everybody else except the GalAss. Working as intended? I don't get it. Yes... What, you want the ROF bonus to be across the board? GalMando would be the Hand of God crushing all the wicked evildoers
Jonny D Buelle The Warlords Legion 2	Posted - 2015.10.10 03:31:00 - [25] - Quote Eskel Bondfree wrote: Jonny D Buelle wrote: Have you not seen a Minmatar Assault using a shotgun and wrecking sh.t up? Or a Gallente Assault using an RR and racking in the kills? Last night I saw a few of them. So using a non racial weapon on an assault suit is still viable, it comes down to your skills as a player and how you fit your suit. Yes the vanilla AR is weak, but the TAR or the Breach in the hands of a skilled Gallente Commando wrecks sh.t up. Sure Logis and Scouts and Sentinels underperform with it. But it happens, the changes that CCP put in have brought the AR back into the fold though which is brilliant. I didn't claim that Dust already is the same as EVE, I said I don't want it to become like it. This is what I objected to: Summa Militum wrote: If you are not skilled into Gallente Assault then don't run with the Assault Rifle. The AR should not underperform on any suit. Period. Making it only viable on a single suit does not seem logical to me. So the fact that most rifles underperform on a Sentinel and Logi suit should change too by that logic. Lets bring back rifle sents and slayer logis! /s As I said before, AR variants perform well on Commandos due to its bonus to damage. So high alpha variants like the TAR and the Breach work fine. So its not like the AR is stuck to just the GalAss. Director of T-W-L Keeper of the List Lord of Scrubs
Clotheshanger Abortion Y0UTHINASIA 88	Posted - 2015.10.10 04:26:00 - [26] - Quote Eskel Bondfree wrote: If I understand correctly, the reason for the AR ROF bonus on Gallente assauts was that assault rifles in general underperformed. So now, the ARs are great on Gallente assaults, but they still underperform for everybody else except the GalAss. Working as intended? I don't get it. Why would you use a weapon on any suit other than its racially equivalent suit? Like, seriously? Why? "Excuse me while I kiss this guy..."
Jonny D Buelle The Warlords Legion 2	Posted - 2015.10.10 04:30:00 - [27] - Quote Clotheshanger Abortion wrote: Eskel Bondfree wrote: If I understand correctly, the reason for the AR ROF bonus on Gallente assauts was that assault rifles in general underperformed. So now, the ARs are great on Gallente assaults, but they still underperform for everybody else except the GalAss. Working as intended? I don't get it. Why would you use a weapon on any suit other than its racially equivalent suit? Like, seriously? Why? Some suits work well with non racial weapons. Sometimes its due to lack of racial weapon, sometimes its the best option. Example of lack of option: HMG used by all Sentinel suits. Is a minmatar weapon. Example of Best Option: Shotgun is a Gallente weapon, used on all scouts and minmatar scout fittings. Magsec and Breach SMG are to go weapons for Sentinels, Logis sometimes use Mass drivers or AScR or RR. The list goes on. Director of T-W-L Keeper of the List Lord of Scrubs
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 44	Posted - 2015.10.10 12:00:00 - [28] - Quote Eskel Bondfree wrote: Summa Militum wrote: Also, you need to use weapons that compliment your suit for best results. If you are not skilled into Gallente Assault then don't run with the Assault Rifle. Well, what about logis, scouts, commandos? Should they just use shot guns, mass drivers and side arms? More generally, I belive every weapon should be a valid choice on any suit, not matter of its race. Freedom of choice, this is the core of Dust to me. Every weapon already IS a valid choice for every suit, however, some suits are better for some weapons than others. Freedom of choice is all well and good but the EvE universe in fact does have some built in racial bias and it's ingrained into everything. You can rail against it all you like but it's not going away. Why do you think that freedom of choice is the core of Dust? There is nothing in the lore of New Eden to give anyone that impression. Quite simply, if you want to use a weapon, train it. If you want to get the racial bonuses for that weapon, train the appropriate suits. There's your freedom of choice right there. You have all the freedom you could possibly want, but you have to pay a price for it.
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 44	Posted - 2015.10.10 12:04:00 - [29] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Summa Militum wrote: Eskel Bondfree wrote: If I understand correctly, the reason for the AR ROF bonus on Gallente assauts was that assault rifles in general underperformed. So now, the ARs are great on Gallente assaults, but they still underperform for everybody else except the GalAss. Working as intended? I don't get it. The only Assault Rifle that was underperforming was the Vanilla Assault Rifle; the RoF increase to Breach Assault Rifles was not needed. Also, you need to use weapons that compliment your suit for best results. If you are not skilled into Gallente Assault then don't run with the Assault Rifle. From what I've seen (not talking about in-game) this isn't entirely correct. The AR family sees (saw) the least use out of the entire rifle line-up with the Burst and Tactical being the most under-used rifles in the game. Burst/Tac numbers were so low that they barely even registered on the chart. Ever heard of FOTM? Some weapons just get a bad rep and noone uses them. Same in EvE. For someone like me who only ever plays Caldari, all Caldari weapons are fine, when trained to the max, even though there are those who would not use some of them.
Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood 414	Posted - 2015.10.10 12:10:00 - [30] - Quote Slap a krins on your galMando and have a grand ole time. Slap a krins on your galAss... Anyone try that yet?? Since the RoF buff... How is it to galAss..? Do you feel power in the hand? Etc. Forever ADS. Best role.

Eskel Bondfree I want to be CEO 201	Posted - 2015.10.10 17:25:00 - [31] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: Why do you think that freedom of choice is the core of Dust? There is nothing in the lore of New Eden to give anyone that impression. Choosing your dropsuit, your weapon, the modules on that suit, and all the endless combinations and possibilities that come with that system are what sets Dust apart from any other team based FPS. It makes Dust unique, it's the reason why this game lives on. Take away the whole fitting system with all it's choices, and Dust 514 would be a truly terrible game with no good reaon to play it. Lore has nothing to do with. You don't let game design be dictated by game lore. You design the game first, then you add in lore that fits with your design. You can always bent the lore to go along with your design decisions if necessary, because after all, it's completely made up in the first place.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 12	Posted - 2015.10.10 18:28:00 - [32] - Quote Eskel Bondfree wrote: Alena Asakura wrote: Why do you think that freedom of choice is the core of Dust? There is nothing in the lore of New Eden to give anyone that impression. Choosing your dropsuit, your weapon, the modules on that suit, and all the endless combinations and possibilities that come with that system are what sets Dust apart from any other team based FPS. It makes Dust unique, it's the reason why this game lives on. Take away the whole fitting system with all it's choices, and Dust 514 would be a truly terrible game with no good reaon to play it. Lore has nothing to do with. You don't let game design be dictated by game lore. You design the game first, then you add in lore that fits with your design. You can always bent the lore to go along with your design decisions if necessary, because after all, it's completely made up in the first place. Well for one the person you're responding to isn't too familiar with the lore in this case. Don't let that confuse you. Game design and lore can go hand to hand. It's just some people quite frankly have no idea about the lore. For one, we don't put any lore aspects in game at all besides the descriptions. Minmatar in the past have used weapons that aren't' of their own for survival, countless times and still do. They do what it takes to win. That's why the Repair tool was made from components of every major empire. During the Invasion of Caldari Prime the Gallente Bravo Company had to switch to using Minmatar weapons because the Caldari ECM rendered Gallente weapons useless. Races don't just not use each other's stuff. There's still plenty of freedom to do as you wish it's just the fits themselves incentives uniformity, like anything in life. (Look at Apple and Microsoft) Doesn't mean you're shoehorned into using only that races items like some lolLore "experts" would have you believe. Now somethings of course are just a bad idea, trying to Armor Tank a Caldari Commando for frontline fighting for instance is not a good idea but you can still do it if you want...for some reason. Sgt Kirk's Propaganda Youtube Channel
Eskel Bondfree I want to be CEO 201	Posted - 2015.10.10 18:58:00 - [33] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Game design and lore can go hand to hand Of course they can. What I'm saying is when you're making game design decisions for the sake of game lore, and not for the sake of better game play, you're making a big mistake (in my humble opinion).
BARAGAMOS Kinsho Swords Caldari State 280	Posted - 2015.10.10 20:29:00 - [34] - Quote My only real question is who thought that giving a GALASS the equivalent of two free complex mods + 1% without stacking penalties was the way to fix ARs? I don't think there is an assault bonus on any other suit that anyone would not trade for a free 15% dps increase. Frankly, the breach has been knocking my "new" shields off of me at ranges farther than my rail rifle now does damage to them. Not sure why an AR was supposed to be the better long range weapon........with damage mods and the DPS bonus however, it outperforms my rail rifle every game. Just saying I was really looking forward to the AR getting some love as its one of my personal favorite guns, but in truth ARs did not get love. The Gal Assault did. Not what most of us were wanting, and in truth looks to have created an all new "scrambler Rifle" issue with the breach.
BARAGAMOS Kinsho Swords Caldari State 280	Posted - 2015.10.10 20:33:00 - [35] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Well for one the person you're responding to isn't too familiar with the lore in this case. Don't let that confuse you. Game design and lore can go hand to hand. It's just some people quite frankly have no idea about the lore. For one, we don't put any lore aspects in game at all besides the descriptions. WE? Was not aware you did anything for CCP.....must have missed your hire date on the development team.
Georgia Xavier Incorruptibles 1	Posted - 2015.10.10 20:38:00 - [36] - Quote BARAGAMOS wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: Well for one the person you're responding to isn't too familiar with the lore in this case. Don't let that confuse you. Game design and lore can go hand to hand. It's just some people quite frankly have no idea about the lore. For one, we don't put any lore aspects in game at all besides the descriptions. WE? Was not aware you did anything for CCP.....must have missed your hire date on the development team. He does more for CCP than you at the very least Click for an instant good day! (or atleast cheer you up a bit)
BARAGAMOS Kinsho Swords Caldari State 280	Posted - 2015.10.10 20:42:00 - [37] - Quote Georgia Xavier wrote: BARAGAMOS wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: Well for one the person you're responding to isn't too familiar with the lore in this case. Don't let that confuse you. Game design and lore can go hand to hand. It's just some people quite frankly have no idea about the lore. For one, we don't put any lore aspects in game at all besides the descriptions. WE? Was not aware you did anything for CCP.....must have missed your hire date on the development team. He does more for CCP than you at the very least Obviously, a fan boy....when he does exactly the same..... If you want to make dumbass comments make then to yourself kid, because obviously the post went over your small head.
Georgia Xavier Incorruptibles 1	Posted - 2015.10.10 20:43:00 - [38] - Quote BARAGAMOS wrote: If you want to make dumbass comments make then to yourself kid, because obviously the post went over your small head. I could say the same to you because all you ever did was complain in the forums lol Click for an instant good day! (or atleast cheer you up a bit)
BARAGAMOS Kinsho Swords Caldari State 280	Posted - 2015.10.10 20:48:00 - [39] - Quote Georgia Xavier wrote: BARAGAMOS wrote: If you want to make dumbass comments make then to yourself kid, because obviously the post went over your small head. I could say the same to you because all you ever did was complain in the forums lol Again lack of reading comprehension.... Complaining is not one of my fortes. Calling out guys like you who can't read well, however, is. If you want to date him that's your business. If he wants to speak for CCP then yeah he'll get called out.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 12	Posted - 2015.10.10 20:50:00 - [40] - Quote BARAGAMOS wrote: Frankly, the breach has been knocking my "new" shields off of me at ranges farther than my rail rifle now does damage to them. Not sure why an AR was supposed to be the better long range weapon........with damage mods and the DPS bonus however At 75m the kaalakiota Rail Rifle does 100% full damage at 397 DPS base damage, no damage mods, skills or anything. The Creodron Breach AR at 75 meters is at 33% efficacy and only does 174.99 DPS (against shields and Gal assault bonus I add) with the introduction of a damage mod you're doing about 206 DPS and with another damage mod you're doing 218 DPS. So, even against an Unskilled Kaalkiota Rail Rifle with no damage mods at Optimal Range (75m) you're doing 179 more DPS than a Creodron Breach AR with max Gallente Assault Skill and two damage mods outside it's optimal range of 39 meters at 75m. Now, there very well may be an issue with the breach ARs DPS around it's optimal but to say that the breach can contend with a Rail Rifle at it's range I feel is extreme hyperbole. Sgt Kirk's Propaganda Youtube Channel

Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 12	Posted - 2015.10.10 20:53:00 - [41] - Quote Georgia Xavier wrote: BARAGAMOS wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: Well for one the person you're responding to isn't too familiar with the lore in this case. Don't let that confuse you. Game design and lore can go hand to hand. It's just some people quite frankly have no idea about the lore. For one, we don't put any lore aspects in game at all besides the descriptions. WE? Was not aware you did anything for CCP.....must have missed your hire date on the development team. He does more for CCP than you at the very least Don't bother paying him attention. If he wants to start flaming over trivial wording then let him have his tantrum. Replace "we" with "CCP", problem solved and moving on. Sgt Kirk's Propaganda Youtube Channel
Georgia Xavier Incorruptibles 1	Posted - 2015.10.10 20:56:00 - [42] - Quote BARAGAMOS wrote: Georgia Xavier wrote: BARAGAMOS wrote: If you want to make dumbass comments make then to yourself kid, because obviously the post went over your small head. I could say the same to you because all you ever did was complain in the forums lol Again lack of reading comprehension.... Complaining is not one of my fortes. Calling out guys like you who can't read well, however, is. If you want to date him that's your business. If he wants to speak for CCP then yeah he'll get called out. Don't confuse me calling you out on your b*tchiness as kissing up to the cpm because quite frankly I'd rather not. Second, I'm not referring to your post in this thread, I meant in general because really you always sound like you got a broom stuck in your colon Click for an instant good day! (or atleast cheer you up a bit)
BARAGAMOS Kinsho Swords Caldari State 280	Posted - 2015.10.10 21:01:00 - [43] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: BARAGAMOS wrote: Frankly, the breach has been knocking my "new" shields off of me at ranges farther than my rail rifle now does damage to them. Not sure why an AR was supposed to be the better long range weapon........with damage mods and the DPS bonus however At 75m the kaalakiota Rail Rifle does 100% full damage at 397 DPS base damage, no damage mods, skills or anything. The Creodron Breach AR at 75 meters is at 33% efficacy and only does 174.99 DPS (against shields and Gal assault bonus I add) with the introduction of a damage mod you're doing about 206 DPS and with another damage mod you're doing 218 DPS. So, even against an Unskilled Kaalkiota Rail Rifle with no damage mods at Optimal Range (75m) you're doing 179 more DPS than a Creodron Breach AR with max skills, max Gallente Assault Skill and two damage mods outside it's optimal range of 39 meters at 75m. Now, there very well may be an issue with the breach ARs DPS around it's optimal but to say that the breach can contend with a Rail Rifle at it's range I feel is extreme hyperbole. I think the issue is on the game there are not many engagements at 75 meters...and most are way under the 39 meter mark. So at ranges of under that range the breach is over performing. At least, in the GALASS hands. It would have been nice to see the AR family get a general buff so its usable for all, not an overwhelming buff for one set of suits.
BARAGAMOS Kinsho Swords Caldari State 280	Posted - 2015.10.10 21:07:00 - [44] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Georgia Xavier wrote: BARAGAMOS wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: Well for one the person you're responding to isn't too familiar with the lore in this case. Don't let that confuse you. Game design and lore can go hand to hand. It's just some people quite frankly have no idea about the lore. For one, we don't put any lore aspects in game at all besides the descriptions. WE? Was not aware you did anything for CCP.....must have missed your hire date on the development team. He does more for CCP than you at the very least Don't bother paying him attention. If he wants to start flaming over trivial wording then let him have his tantrum. Replace "we" with "CCP", problem solved and moving on. See its not trivial, "We" and "CCP" imply two much different things. One construes an official position the other an opinion. You get to share opinions, sometimes even well informed ones. You don't get to make official positions. Just saying that it is pretty big hubris to even use the word 'WE".
BARAGAMOS Kinsho Swords Caldari State 280	Posted - 2015.10.10 21:08:00 - [45] - Quote Georgia Xavier wrote: BARAGAMOS wrote: Georgia Xavier wrote: BARAGAMOS wrote: If you want to make dumbass comments make then to yourself kid, because obviously the post went over your small head. I could say the same to you because all you ever did was complain in the forums lol Again lack of reading comprehension.... Complaining is not one of my fortes. Calling out guys like you who can't read well, however, is. If you want to date him that's your business. If he wants to speak for CCP then yeah he'll get called out. Don't confuse me calling you out on your b*tchiness as kissing up to the cpm because quite frankly I'd rather not. Second, I'm not referring to your post in this thread, I meant in general because really you always sound like you got a broom stuck in your colon Looks the only kid getting bitchy seems to be you, but it sure does look like fan boy love to me. Just saying...random comments like that usually are.
Eskel Bondfree I want to be CEO 209	Posted - 2015.10.10 21:34:00 - [46] - Quote Could you please move somewhere else with the mutual insults and discussion about CPM-is-CCP-is-not-CCP and keep this thread somewhat on topic? That would be great, thank you.
Mortedeamor The Black Masquerade 1	Posted - 2015.10.10 21:45:00 - [47] - Quote 501st Headstrong wrote: Am I the only one who can kill a Gal Assault???/ Killed 2 with advanced ascr..on adv amassault..they are balanced I prefer to kill them at range Also got one with breach smg so I dunno though that could been scrubby gal assaults ..if love to see how a really good gal assault user fares at range vs my lr pc master race PORT IT CCP
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 12	Posted - 2015.10.10 22:02:00 - [48] - Quote Mortedeamor wrote: 501st Headstrong wrote: Am I the only one who can kill a Gal Assault???/ Killed 2 with advanced ascr..on adv amassault..they are balanced I prefer to kill them at range Also got one with breach smg so I dunno though that could been scrubby gal assaults ..if love to see how a really good gal assault user fares at range vs my lr Well, for one I'd get my ass out of there. It's a night and day difference between my performance in open area maps like the Pipeline map and the Communications outpost that is CQC. Often I'll just switch to a tank in open maps because I don't do well in open environment. Sgt Kirk's Propaganda Youtube Channel
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.10.10 23:11:00 - [49] - Quote Summa Militum wrote: The Breach Assault Rifle though I feel might become too OP if too many people start to develop decent gun game. I guess time will tell on this one though. The breach assault rifle has the best hit detection of the assault rifle line. You lose less shots to happenstance than with the more rapid firing rifles. But it's DPS on paper is still lower than the base assault. It's why most sentinels are gravitating to the AHMG. Better hit detection on slower rate of fire (we'll ignore the range nerf). But it was entirely appropriate IMHO to put the bonus to ARs on the assault only. The galmando actually hits harder at the base level and doesn't suffer overly much from the AR stats so much as it suffers being huge, slow and easy to hit. Galscouts tend to do better with the shotguns anyway, and other in close options, so buffing the AR for them would be mostly a nonissue save in niche fits. And does anyone really want AR/RR/CR/ScR performing better in the hands of sentinels? Logis are where I'm on the fence here. I realize it's a phenomenal pain in the ass for them to have a baseline subpar weapon, but I would need the logis to weigh in here before I comment on them. I actually questioned just bonusing the gallente assault in favor of just improving the rifles, but I think the choice went the right way. Your mileage may vary, but it pleases me that gallente assaults are beast mode in CQC with their racial weapon rather than better using rails. It pleases me that caldari are getting harder to kill at long range but retaining most of their vulnerability in CQC. But back to the breach: I don't think it will be OP overall because it shares the terrible range limit of the vanilla AR. If people bear in mind that gallente suits aren't great at range and prioritize inbound gallente suits and keep them out of reach things will even out. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 9	Posted - 2015.10.10 23:50:00 - [50] - Quote Question: What was the AR's drawback, except for range? Answer: Besides range? Hmm... Well, it has a decent magazine size as well as reserves. We can't tweak damage without it being OP. It doesn't have a great mechanic... Question: Okay. What if we took its strength to the next level? In other words, improve the CQC function? Perhaps RoF bonus? Answer: Sure, let's go with that. I say 2%. Proposed action: Loud and clear. I'll give you guys 5% bonus to AR RoF. Answer: LOLno. That's OP as shit. Lower it. Proposed action: 3%? Answer: Much better. That's the gist of it. *Scouts United* Gk.0s & Quafes all day.

Lightning35 Delta514 The Warlords Legion 2	Posted - 2015.10.10 23:54:00 - [51] - Quote Summa Militum wrote: Lightning35 Delta514 wrote: Yes. It is working as intended. They are now effective on galassaults. The same way scramblers where very effective on Amarr because of heat, the same way you have better control with rail rifles on caldari, and the same way you can spam with minmatar. It encourages racial fits. The Breach Assault Rifle should not have received the RoF bonus. It's kinda ironic considering it's the closest varient that works like so in eve and is the best cqc yet many don't think. It's good as it is. Fight at range. CEO of T-W-L YouTube- Lightning35 Delta514 Twitter- @LD3514
Ateroith KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 222	Posted - 2015.10.10 23:55:00 - [52] - Quote Oh my god, such long replies... "...Rule #2 - Never start a fight. Rule #3 - Never lose one either." - Lee Child
Roy Ventus Axis of Chaos 2	Posted - 2015.10.11 00:57:00 - [53] - Quote Summa Militum wrote: Eskel Bondfree wrote: If I understand correctly, the reason for the AR ROF bonus on Gallente assauts was that assault rifles in general underperformed. So now, the ARs are great on Gallente assaults, but they still underperform for everybody else except the GalAss. Working as intended? I don't get it. The only Assault Rifle that was underperforming was the Vanilla Assault Rifle; the RoF increase to Breach Assault Rifles was not needed. Also, you need to use weapons that compliment your suit for best results. If you are not skilled into Gallente Assault then don't run with the Assault Rifle. Lol that's bull brah. The vanilla AR was the most capable. The burst, tactical, and breach were much harder to use efficiently, with the breach being the best out of the three. "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." http://royventus.tumblr.com
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 12	Posted - 2015.10.11 01:40:00 - [54] - Quote Joel II X wrote: Question: What was the AR's drawback, except for range? Answer: Besides range? Hmm... Well, it has a decent magazine size as well as reserves. We can't tweak damage without it being OP. It doesn't have a great mechanic... Question: Okay. What if we took its strength to the next level? In other words, improve the CQC function? Perhaps RoF bonus? Answer: Sure, let's go with that. I say 2%. Proposed action: Loud and clear. I'll give you guys 5% bonus to AR RoF. Answer: LOLno. That's OP as shit. Lower it. Proposed action: 3%? Answer: Much better. That's the gist of it. I wanted that Bon Bon Machine Gun Sgt Kirk's Propaganda Youtube Channel
Ydubbs81 RND Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 4	Posted - 2015.10.11 01:55:00 - [55] - Quote Eskel Bondfree wrote: If I understand correctly, the reason for the AR ROF bonus on Gallente assauts was that assault rifles in general underperformed. So now, the ARs are great on Gallente assaults, but they still underperform for everybody else except the GalAss. Working as intended? I don't get it. Nah...reason for ROF bonus was to make gallente even more powerful than it already was. "Bring out mass drivers & jump around goddamit" Check RND out here
Vicious Minotaur 3	Posted - 2015.10.11 01:56:00 - [56] - Quote Not that anybody cares what a Minotaur has to say, but, the ROF bonus is the odd man out with regards to Assault bonuses: Minmatar gets magazine size increase: more sustainable firing. Amarr get heat: more sustainable firing. Caldari get recoil: more sustainable firing. Gallente get ROF increase: ...more... Uh direct increase in DPS... I was under the impression that classes were supposed to have bonuses that followed a pattern: that they were to be equivalent. Was I wrong? Or has that mindset been done away with? Viscous Minotaur Blood is more vicious than water.
BARAGAMOS Kinsho Swords Caldari State 296	Posted - 2015.10.11 02:03:00 - [57] - Quote Vicious Minotaur wrote: Not that anybody cares what a Minotaur has to say, but, the ROF bonus is the odd man out with regards to Assault bonuses: Minmatar gets magazine size increase: more sustainable firing. Amarr get heat: more sustainable firing. Caldari get recoil: more sustainable firing. Gallente get ROF increase: ...more... Uh direct increase in DPS... I was under the impression that classes were supposed to have bonuses that followed a pattern: that they were to be equivalent. Was I wrong? Or has that mindset been done away with? Got to agree.. I'll give up my reload and recoil bonus for a 15% ROF bonus on my rails any day. I also really was looking forward to having the AR be useful again, but now its still weak unless you run one suit, and then its a little too good.
CUSE TOWN333 Capital Acquisitions LLC 3	Posted - 2015.10.11 06:23:00 - [58] - Quote Vicious Minotaur wrote: Not that anybody cares what a Minotaur has to say, but, the ROF bonus is the odd man out with regards to Assault bonuses: Minmatar gets magazine size increase: more sustainable firing. Amarr get heat: more sustainable firing. Caldari get recoil: more sustainable firing. Gallente get ROF increase: ...more... Uh direct increase in DPS... I was under the impression that classes were supposed to have bonuses that followed a pattern: that they were to be equivalent. Was I wrong? Or has that mindset been done away with? yeah giveing one assault race a direct Dps buff is tard mode. It would be like if they gave my caldari heavy a buff that makes the HMg fire faster. I have been dropping gal assaults in my caldari assault all day in PC but dam the AR is hitting a little to hard. But that is the over nerf buff culture of dust every month. lol i will do what i do every time this happens get a respec pick up that OP stuff run around in pubs and proto stomp the **** out of new players in a gal assault until they cry nerf again. actions speak louder then words.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 27	Posted - 2015.10.11 06:54:00 - [59] - Quote Joel II X wrote: Question: What was the AR's drawback, except for range? Answer: Besides range? Hmm... Well, it has a decent magazine size as well as reserves. We can't tweak damage without it being OP. It doesn't have a great mechanic... Question: Okay. What if we took its strength to the next level? In other words, improve the CQC function? Perhaps RoF bonus? Answer: Sure, let's go with that. I say 2%. Proposed action: Loud and clear. I'll give you guys 5% bonus to AR RoF. Answer: LOLno. That's OP as shit. Lower it. Proposed action: 3%? Answer: Much better. That's the gist of it. spot on "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 27	Posted - 2015.10.11 06:56:00 - [60] - Quote Summa Militum wrote: Eskel Bondfree wrote: If I understand correctly, the reason for the AR ROF bonus on Gallente assauts was that assault rifles in general underperformed. So now, the ARs are great on Gallente assaults, but they still underperform for everybody else except the GalAss. Working as intended? I don't get it. The only Assault Rifle that was underperforming was the Vanilla Assault Rifle; the RoF increase to Breach Assault Rifles was not needed. Also, you need to use weapons that compliment your suit for best results. If you are not skilled into Gallente Assault then don't run with the Assault Rifle. I think I have told you before that you are wrong. The whole AR family is bottom of the class, by far. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


ReGnYuM Capital Acquisitions LLC 3	Posted - 2015.10.11 07:21:00 - [61] - Quote I've been playing Dust for a long time now and I can easily say the Gk.0 Assault + BAR is one of the scariest combo's to hit the game. Gal should be the King's of CQC and they're with the new bonus. However, I think the range efficiency on the BAR should be pulled back. If you want to dominate a a specific field of combat then sacrifices need to be made. Right now the sting of the Breach reaches too far.
Daemonn Adima Y.A.M.A.H 352	Posted - 2015.10.11 07:59:00 - [62] - Quote Been getting wrecked with RRs and ScRs on mixed racial suits. Can't wait to have the tables turned when I'm back from vacation tomorrow! Gallente loyalist for life!
StoneSmasher Drugga Corrosive Synergy 202	Posted - 2015.10.11 08:03:00 - [63] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: BARAGAMOS wrote: Frankly, the breach has been knocking my "new" shields off of me at ranges farther than my rail rifle now does damage to them. Not sure why an AR was supposed to be the better long range weapon........with damage mods and the DPS bonus however At 75m the kaalakiota Rail Rifle does 100% full damage at 397 DPS base damage, no damage mods, skills or anything. The Creodron Breach AR at 75 meters is at 33% efficacy and only does 174.99 DPS (against shields and Gal assault bonus I add) with the introduction of a damage mod you're doing about 206 DPS and with another damage mod you're doing 218 DPS. So, even against an Unskilled Kaalkiota Rail Rifle with no damage mods at Optimal Range (75m) you're doing 179 more DPS than a Creodron Breach AR with max Gallente Assault Skill and two damage mods outside it's optimal range of 39 meters at 75m. Now, there very well may be an issue with the breach ARs DPS around it's optimal but to say that the breach can contend with a Rail Rifle at it's range I feel is extreme hyperbole. And there is no evil greater than hyperbole. Sorry, couldn't resist. There is no evil greater than hyperbole.
Eskel Bondfree I want to be CEO 211	Posted - 2015.10.11 10:28:00 - [64] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Joel II X wrote: Question: What was the AR's drawback, except for range? Answer: Besides range? Hmm... Well, it has a decent magazine size as well as reserves. We can't tweak damage without it being OP. It doesn't have a great mechanic... Question: Okay. What if we took its strength to the next level? In other words, improve the CQC function? Perhaps RoF bonus? Answer: Sure, let's go with that. I say 2%. Proposed action: Loud and clear. I'll give you guys 5% bonus to AR RoF. Answer: LOLno. That's OP as shit. Lower it. Proposed action: 3%? Answer: Much better. That's the gist of it. spot on I'm with you so far. But I still don't understand the part where you apply this fix to only 1 out of 32 drop suits in the game, and not to the AR as a weapon. Correct me if I'm wrong, Rattati, but this is what I understood: Pre FoxFour, GalAss using an AR and its underwhelming bonus didn't really hold up to a GalAss using any other rifle with no bonus. If this was true, then by extension it was also true for any other suit in the game: CalLogi with AR doesn't hold up to CalLogi with any other rifle, AmScout with AR doesn't hold up to AmScout with any other rifle, basic medium with AR doesn't hold up to basic medium with any other rifle... I mean, just because I don't play assault doesn't mean I don't care about the balancing of the weapon I use. In my opinion, that situation should have been fixed by giving a small ROF bonus to all ARs, and then giving another small ROF bonus to the GalAss so it would come out where it is today (rather than giving the whole ROF bonus to the GalAss only).
The KTM Duke You Got Killed By a Guy With Framerate Drops 961	Posted - 2015.10.11 10:35:00 - [65] - Quote Eskel Bondfree wrote: If I understand correctly, the reason for the AR ROF bonus on Gallente assauts was that assault rifles in general underperformed. So now, the ARs are great on Gallente assaults, but they still underperform for everybody else except the GalAss. Working as intended? I don't get it. I was using ARs before the update and i cant say they were bad, they were underperfomed compared to others assaults with racial bonus. Gal ass + ARR was FOTM cuz rail rifles were better than assaults rifles at range and at cqc, now gallente assault is "god" in cqc as it was supposed to be // H0riz0n Unlimit // FOTM Gallente Assault since 28/7/2013. Regressed to Pubstar level
D4GG3R S.K.I.L.L OF G.O.D 2	Posted - 2015.10.11 11:16:00 - [66] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Summa Militum wrote: Eskel Bondfree wrote: If I understand correctly, the reason for the AR ROF bonus on Gallente assauts was that assault rifles in general underperformed. So now, the ARs are great on Gallente assaults, but they still underperform for everybody else except the GalAss. Working as intended? I don't get it. The only Assault Rifle that was underperforming was the Vanilla Assault Rifle; the RoF increase to Breach Assault Rifles was not needed. Also, you need to use weapons that compliment your suit for best results. If you are not skilled into Gallente Assault then don't run with the Assault Rifle. I think I have told you before that you are wrong. The whole AR family is bottom of the class, by far. Go use a breach AR right now. There is a reason just about every PC player I know is using a breach AR. It is leaps and bounds ahead of just about every weapon in its category now, it was competitive even before the hotfix. Vanilla AR was the only one under performing. "Dagger is like a mage, damage him enough and he runs." -Nega Matix I watch anime for the boobs
D4GG3R S.K.I.L.L OF G.O.D 2	Posted - 2015.10.11 11:17:00 - [67] - Quote The KTM Duke wrote: Eskel Bondfree wrote: If I understand correctly, the reason for the AR ROF bonus on Gallente assauts was that assault rifles in general underperformed. So now, the ARs are great on Gallente assaults, but they still underperform for everybody else except the GalAss. Working as intended? I don't get it. I was using ARs before the update and i cant say they were bad, they were underperfomed compared to others assaults with racial bonus. Gal ass + ARR was FOTM cuz rail rifles were better than assaults rifles at range and at cqc, now gallente assault is "god" in cqc as it was supposed to be KT, that breach AR fires too fast and you know it. "Dagger is like a mage, damage him enough and he runs." -Nega Matix I watch anime for the boobs
The KTM Duke You Got Killed By a Guy With Framerate Drops 961	Posted - 2015.10.11 11:50:00 - [68] - Quote D4GG3R wrote: The KTM Duke wrote: Eskel Bondfree wrote: If I understand correctly, the reason for the AR ROF bonus on Gallente assauts was that assault rifles in general underperformed. So now, the ARs are great on Gallente assaults, but they still underperform for everybody else except the GalAss. Working as intended? I don't get it. I was using ARs before the update and i cant say they were bad, they were underperfomed compared to others assaults with racial bonus. Gal ass + ARR was FOTM cuz rail rifles were better than assaults rifles at range and at cqc, now gallente assault is "god" in cqc as it was supposed to be KT, that breach AR fires too fast and you know it. Till you try to kill a gal ass with a min ass with Sg at 15 metres yes, if you get spotted you get rekt, dont tell me cal assault shield recharge isnt op though...no one can anymore adapt or die, just QQ // H0riz0n Unlimit // FOTM Gallente Assault since 28/7/2013. Regressed to Pubstar level
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 2	Posted - 2015.10.11 12:53:00 - [69] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: From what I've seen (not talking about in-game) this isn't entirely correct. The AR family sees (saw) the least use out of the entire rifle line-up with the Burst and Tactical being the most under-used rifles in the game. Burst/Tac numbers were so low that they barely even registered on the chart. this is why use stats should not be used as base for balance. the TAR is a SCR with no overheat, slightly less range but more DPS. it actually is one of the best weapons in the game.
Dont-be-a-D1CK Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic 254	Posted - 2015.10.11 14:00:00 - [70] - Quote Despite it's flaws.. you should consider that the AR is the most reliable rifle in-game. With decent clip size, RoF and most importantly accuracy it only underperforms in fights it should not be in (long range) bar maybe the Assault Combat Rifle (spray and pray FTW) the Assault Rifles are the most consistent light weapon. So in practice that means the AR is most likely to apply all of it's DPS as it is quite accurate and easy to use, where the ScR+RR have clear drawbacks, the AR+CR lack these (bar range) so this may not be considered very important, but balancing them should take into acount the weapons practical use and for that AR+CR do pretty well. I shield tank, so results may vary.. I died to AR's before the hotfix, I die to them more since the hotfix.. the 2 biggest issues here are - no new content (so bored players check out FOTM) - scrubass KD tryhards (just luurrrvvee new crutches) Just please, while players may enjoy their latest crutch.. don't wait too long to make needed changes CCP!!! (Unsure what should be changed, will leave that to the QQ I want my AR to be good crowd) My view on it, is the most consistent rifle in Dust, did not need a buff.. Others should have been tweaked to remove their advantage over over it, but this is how the buff/nerf cycle goes, I can picture Rattati struggling to swim in a pool of tears Well that was a surprise.

CUSE TOWN333 Capital Acquisitions LLC 3	Posted - 2015.10.11 15:42:00 - [71] - Quote In theory all these changes sound good on paper. In reality in game its cheesey as all ways. The way dust works when you fight to win CQC weapons pretty much dominate with the way the objective structures are designed. Its the reason the shotgun, hmg, and AR have all ways been hard to balance. Good players know how to position themselves to get in CQC range. Even on the bridge map in PC lastnight in order to get to the outside letters you must put yourself in a CQC situation. Vets will know in order to win= i should use this OP combo. Its the reason people have been crying about heavys with Hmgs and assaults with shotguns for so long. Make something to strong in CQC and trust me it will git spamed to death until we realize the game got way to cheesey again. Your balance culture is flawed. Im shocked this was allowed to happen as the new CPMs are very knowledgeable ingame players. actions speak louder then words.
Aeon Amadi 12	Posted - 2015.10.11 15:58:00 - [72] - Quote D4GG3R wrote: Go use a breach AR right now. There is a reason just about every PC player I know is using a breach AR. It is leaps and bounds ahead of just about every weapon in its category now, it was competitive even before the hotfix. Vanilla AR was the only one under performing. Interesting how the meta shifted within 72 hours and you can safely assume that every PC player is suddenly using the same exact weapon. Curious as to what sort of data-collection you have going on, we may need to get in on that for our own observations Jack McReady wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: From what I've seen (not talking about in-game) this isn't entirely correct. The AR family sees (saw) the least use out of the entire rifle line-up with the Burst and Tactical being the most under-used rifles in the game. Burst/Tac numbers were so low that they barely even registered on the chart. this is why use stats should not be used as base for balance. the TAR is a SCR with no overheat, slightly less range but more DPS. it actually is one of the best weapons in the game. Probably a good thing usage stats aren't the only thing that gets looked at then, huh? =P Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog Skype: nomistrav
Mr.Pepe Le Pew Art.of.Death 296	Posted - 2015.10.11 16:01:00 - [73] - Quote Summa Militum wrote: Lightning35 Delta514 wrote: Yes. It is working as intended. They are now effective on galassaults. The same way scramblers where very effective on Amarr because of heat, the same way you have better control with rail rifles on caldari, and the same way you can spam with minmatar. It encourages racial fits. The Breach Assault Rifle should not have received the RoF bonus. Why not? Because you can actually kill with it now? before the buff, the AR would be outperformed by the following light and sidearm weapons: -Rail rifle -Assault Rail rifle -Combat rifle -Assault Combat -Scrambler rifle -Assault Scrambler rifle -Laser rifle (at a distance) -mass driver sidearms: -Bolt pistol -smg -ion pistol Anyone throwing a fit about the new gal assault bonus needs to check themselves. The Assault RR is still beast, and if you use it against a gal assault wielding an AR, now the terms come down to skill, not weaponry used. CEO / Art.of.Death
Mr.Pepe Le Pew Art.of.Death 296	Posted - 2015.10.11 16:13:00 - [74] - Quote CUSE TOWN333 wrote: In theory all these changes sound good on paper. In reality in game its cheesey as all ways. The way dust works when you fight to win CQC weapons pretty much dominate with the way the objective structures are designed. Its the reason the shotgun, hmg, and AR have all ways been hard to balance. Good players know how to position themselves to get in CQC range. Even on the bridge map in PC lastnight in order to get to the outside letters you must put yourself in a CQC situation. Vets will know in order to win= i should use this OP combo. Its the reason people have been crying about heavys with Hmgs and assaults with shotguns for so long. Make something to strong in CQC and trust me it will git spamed to death until we realize the game got way to cheesey again. Your balance culture is flawed. Im shocked this was allowed to happen as the new CPMs are very knowledgeable ingame players. Your position is contradictory to itself. If I understood correctly, your first few statements explain how CQC weapons are the weapons used to win. And I quote, "The way dust works when you fight to win CQC weapons pretty much dominate with the way the objective structures are designed." However you go on to explain how a good player will position himself and create a combo that best works for him. So which is it? the CQC weapon? the combo? the positioning? If your answer is all three, then I agree with you. Hence the contradiction to your first premise that the AR buff makes the game cheesy because its the only weapon and combo you can use in the game to be a cqc king. May I remind you that you also mentioned the shotgun, heavies with HMG's. The AR is competitive now. And smart players witll understand how to counter a Gal Assault with an AR. The game is about tactics, counters. So now, the AR on Gal assault gives the player base a new tactic, a new puzzle to solve. Anyone too lazy to find a counter, is well...another kill on my killfeed. :) CEO / Art.of.Death
JIMvc2 KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 1	Posted - 2015.10.11 16:13:00 - [75] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: I've been playing Dust for a long time now and I can easily say the Gk.0 Assault + BAR is one of the scariest combo's to hit the game. Gal should be the King's of CQC and they're with the new bonus. However, I think the range efficiency on the BAR should be pulled back. If you want to dominate a a specific field of combat then sacrifices need to be made. Right now the sting of the Breach reaches too far. NO. No one will nerf my Breach Assault Rifle. Nope no sacrifices should be made = propaganda is what you are hearing. Judge my muscle content then I'll judge you by your Half Marathon time. Never underestimate runners - "Jim"
JIMvc2 KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 1	Posted - 2015.10.11 16:19:00 - [76] - Quote D4GG3R wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Summa Militum wrote: Eskel Bondfree wrote: If I understand correctly, the reason for the AR ROF bonus on Gallente assauts was that assault rifles in general underperformed. So now, the ARs are great on Gallente assaults, but they still underperform for everybody else except the GalAss. Working as intended? I don't get it. The only Assault Rifle that was underperforming was the Vanilla Assault Rifle; the RoF increase to Breach Assault Rifles was not needed. Also, you need to use weapons that compliment your suit for best results. If you are not skilled into Gallente Assault then don't run with the Assault Rifle. I think I have told you before that you are wrong. The whole AR family is bottom of the class, by far. Go use a breach AR right now. There is a reason just about every PC player I know is using a breach AR. It is leaps and bounds ahead of just about every weapon in its category now, it was competitive even before the hotfix. Vanilla AR was the only one under performing. ^ Now you are complaining that the breach assault rifle is being used in PC? LOLOLOL funny xD FFS the stupid Rail Rifle and Combat Rifle have been dominating since 1.7 uprising arrived. Can't wait to destroy you with the Creo Drone Breach Assault Rifle. Dem minmatars can't over run it nor hide >:) Judge my muscle content then I'll judge you by your Half Marathon time. Never underestimate runners - "Jim"
Mr.Pepe Le Pew Art.of.Death 296	Posted - 2015.10.11 16:24:00 - [77] - Quote All of these tears about the AR means CCP is doing something right. lmao!!! and now a poem to all the tear filled faces: tear here....tear there...oh the AR has killed me there... tear here...tear there...I now have to think how to counter them... tear tear tear...the AR shoots way too fast tear tear tear...I'm gonna blame CCP cause I can't pad my stats tear here...tear there...oh mama come help me I'm dead!!! BAHAHAHAHAHA quit crying. Everyone sounds like a little tool used for gardening that is also a synonym to a prostitute and rhymes with Santa's laugh... XD CEO / Art.of.Death
Aeon Amadi 12	Posted - 2015.10.11 16:28:00 - [78] - Quote JIMvc2 wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: I've been playing Dust for a long time now and I can easily say the Gk.0 Assault + BAR is one of the scariest combo's to hit the game. Gal should be the King's of CQC and they're with the new bonus. However, I think the range efficiency on the BAR should be pulled back. If you want to dominate a a specific field of combat then sacrifices need to be made. Right now the sting of the Breach reaches too far. NO. No one will nerf my Breach Assault Rifle. Nope no sacrifices should be made = propaganda is what you are hearing. Breach AR is a weird weapon by design. Legacy design philosophy states that the breach variants were to emulate Rail Rifles, so it should theoretically have the longest range in the AR family. But, being part of the AR family, it is supposed to have high damage. Newer design philosophy states that the longer the range on a weapon the less damage it should do, and thusly we have a contradiction in how to balance the weapon. Do we give it more range and lower the damage? Do we give it more damage and lower the range? Right now, the Breach AR is functionally and effectively just an AR. Duvolle AR has 453.33 DPS, base, and the CreoDron Breach AR has 457.14 DPS, base. So for a difference of about 4dps, you really have to wonder where the power comes from. It's hit detection, mostly. Lower RoF weapons have better hit detection overall. We see this with the Breach SMG and Assault HMGs, respectively. But even despite this advantage to the weapon, it still (at least up until FoxFour) remained one of the less used/efficient weapons when compared to competitors like the SCR, ARR, and ACR. In fact it was the third least used/efficient rifles in the line up, following the Tactical and Burst ARs. And fun fact, the next rifle on the list for use/efficiency? The Vanilla AR =P So out of all racial rifles and their variations, literally every AR variant was the least used/efficient. But an overall blanket buff to the weapons themselves might have sent them very quickly into being OP, so the conclusion was to kill two birds with one stone by soft-buffing the weapon through the Gallente Assault which didn't have a very good bonus. Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog Skype: nomistrav
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 6	Posted - 2015.10.11 16:34:00 - [79] - Quote Eskel Bondfree wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Joel II X wrote: Question: What was the AR's drawback, except for range? Answer: Besides range? Hmm... Well, it has a decent magazine size as well as reserves. We can't tweak damage without it being OP. It doesn't have a great mechanic... Question: Okay. What if we took its strength to the next level? In other words, improve the CQC function? Perhaps RoF bonus? Answer: Sure, let's go with that. I say 2%. Proposed action: Loud and clear. I'll give you guys 5% bonus to AR RoF. Answer: LOLno. That's OP as shit. Lower it. Proposed action: 3%? Answer: Much better. That's the gist of it. spot on I'm with you so far. But I still don't understand the part where you apply this fix to only 1 out of 32 drop suits in the game, and not to the AR as a weapon. Correct me if I'm wrong, Rattati, but this is what I understood: Pre FoxFour, GalAss using an AR and its underwhelming bonus didn't really hold up to a GalAss using any other rifle with no bonus. If this was true, then by extension it was also true for any other suit in the game: CalLogi with AR doesn't hold up to CalLogi with any other rifle, AmScout with AR doesn't hold up to AmScout with any other rifle, basic medium with AR doesn't hold up to basic medium with any other rifle... I mean, just because I don't play assault doesn't mean I don't care about the balancing of the weapon I use. In my opinion, that situation should have been fixed by giving a small ROF bonus to all ARs, and then giving another small ROF bonus to the GalAss so it would come out where it is today (rather than giving the whole ROF bonus to the GalAss only). Im going to have to agree on this one. The AR in a Non-Gal assault is still performing below what it should have. I think a +5% RoF bonus to the base weapon and then a +10% RoF bonus for the Gal Assault would have been a more appropriate action if indeed the RoF is the direction the developers wanted to take the weapon. "That little sh*t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati
Aeon Amadi 12	Posted - 2015.10.11 16:52:00 - [80] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Eskel Bondfree wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Joel II X wrote: Question: What was the AR's drawback, except for range? Answer: Besides range? Hmm... Well, it has a decent magazine size as well as reserves. We can't tweak damage without it being OP. It doesn't have a great mechanic... Question: Okay. What if we took its strength to the next level? In other words, improve the CQC function? Perhaps RoF bonus? Answer: Sure, let's go with that. I say 2%. Proposed action: Loud and clear. I'll give you guys 5% bonus to AR RoF. Answer: LOLno. That's OP as shit. Lower it. Proposed action: 3%? Answer: Much better. That's the gist of it. spot on I'm with you so far. But I still don't understand the part where you apply this fix to only 1 out of 32 drop suits in the game, and not to the AR as a weapon. Correct me if I'm wrong, Rattati, but this is what I understood: Pre FoxFour, GalAss using an AR and its underwhelming bonus didn't really hold up to a GalAss using any other rifle with no bonus. If this was true, then by extension it was also true for any other suit in the game: CalLogi with AR doesn't hold up to CalLogi with any other rifle, AmScout with AR doesn't hold up to AmScout with any other rifle, basic medium with AR doesn't hold up to basic medium with any other rifle... I mean, just because I don't play assault doesn't mean I don't care about the balancing of the weapon I use. In my opinion, that situation should have been fixed by giving a small ROF bonus to all ARs, and then giving another small ROF bonus to the GalAss so it would come out where it is today (rather than giving the whole ROF bonus to the GalAss only). Im going to have to agree on this one. The AR in a Non-Gal assault is still performing below what it should have. I think a +5% RoF bonus to the base weapon and then a +10% RoF bonus for the Gal Assault would have been a more appropriate action if indeed the RoF is the direction the developers wanted to take the weapon. Was thinking this as well. Will write down a note of it if it is necessary post FoxFour (I.E, if ARs are considering only viable on Gal Assaults) Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog Skype: nomistrav

Eskel Bondfree I want to be CEO 211	Posted - 2015.10.11 17:05:00 - [81] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Eskel Bondfree wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Joel II X wrote: Question: What was the AR's drawback, except for range? Answer: Besides range? Hmm... Well, it has a decent magazine size as well as reserves. We can't tweak damage without it being OP. It doesn't have a great mechanic... Question: Okay. What if we took its strength to the next level? In other words, improve the CQC function? Perhaps RoF bonus? Answer: Sure, let's go with that. I say 2%. Proposed action: Loud and clear. I'll give you guys 5% bonus to AR RoF. Answer: LOLno. That's OP as shit. Lower it. Proposed action: 3%? Answer: Much better. That's the gist of it. spot on I'm with you so far. But I still don't understand the part where you apply this fix to only 1 out of 32 drop suits in the game, and not to the AR as a weapon. Correct me if I'm wrong, Rattati, but this is what I understood: Pre FoxFour, GalAss using an AR and its underwhelming bonus didn't really hold up to a GalAss using any other rifle with no bonus. If this was true, then by extension it was also true for any other suit in the game: CalLogi with AR doesn't hold up to CalLogi with any other rifle, AmScout with AR doesn't hold up to AmScout with any other rifle, basic medium with AR doesn't hold up to basic medium with any other rifle... I mean, just because I don't play assault doesn't mean I don't care about the balancing of the weapon I use. In my opinion, that situation should have been fixed by giving a small ROF bonus to all ARs, and then giving another small ROF bonus to the GalAss so it would come out where it is today (rather than giving the whole ROF bonus to the GalAss only). Im going to have to agree on this one. The AR in a Non-Gal assault is still performing below what it should have. I think a +5% RoF bonus to the base weapon and then a +10% RoF bonus for the Gal Assault would have been a more appropriate action if indeed the RoF is the direction the developers wanted to take the weapon. Was thinking this as well. Will write down a note of it if it is necessary post FoxFour (I.E, if ARs are considering only viable on Gal Assaults) Glad to hear that.
CUSE TOWN333 Capital Acquisitions LLC 3	Posted - 2015.10.11 18:12:00 - [82] - Quote Mr.Pepe Le Pew wrote: CUSE TOWN333 wrote: In theory all these changes sound good on paper. In reality in game its cheesey as all ways. The way dust works when you fight to win CQC weapons pretty much dominate with the way the objective structures are designed. Its the reason the shotgun, hmg, and AR have all ways been hard to balance. Good players know how to position themselves to get in CQC range. Even on the bridge map in PC lastnight in order to get to the outside letters you must put yourself in a CQC situation. Vets will know in order to win= i should use this OP combo. Its the reason people have been crying about heavys with Hmgs and assaults with shotguns for so long. Make something to strong in CQC and trust me it will git spamed to death until we realize the game got way to cheesey again. Your balance culture is flawed. Im shocked this was allowed to happen as the new CPMs are very knowledgeable ingame players. Your position is contradictory to itself. If I understood correctly, your first few statements explain how CQC weapons are the weapons used to win. And I quote, "The way dust works when you fight to win CQC weapons pretty much dominate with the way the objective structures are designed." However you go on to explain how a good player will position himself and create a combo that best works for him. So which is it? the CQC weapon? the combo? the positioning? If your answer is all three, then I agree with you. Hence the contradiction to your first premise that the AR buff makes the game cheesy because its the only weapon and combo you can use in the game to be a cqc king. May I remind you that you also mentioned the shotgun, heavies with HMG's. The AR is competitive now. And smart players witll understand how to counter a Gal Assault with an AR. The game is about tactics, counters. So now, the AR on Gal assault gives the player base a new tactic, a new puzzle to solve. Anyone too lazy to find a counter, is well...another kill on my killfeed. :) what you will find is the counter is to get a respec and use the same weapon and suit that is OP. That makes 90% of a PC team all use the same gun and suit hence the cheese mode. Trust me we tryed it lastnight whole team gal assaults with AR it was down right rude. Yes good players will use positioning and tactics to get in range to maximize the OP CQC weapon canceling its only drawback. And the map structures dictate in order to take and hold a letter you will most likely be in a CQC situation. What did you not understand? actions speak louder then words.
CUSE TOWN333 Capital Acquisitions LLC 3	Posted - 2015.10.11 18:18:00 - [83] - Quote So if the HMG has a big range disadvantage and the mobility of a slow heavy. And the shotgun has a huge range disadvantage. Then one can come to the conclusion that the gal assault with a AR would be the best overall option. Dust should never work like that. actions speak louder then words.
Mr.Pepe Le Pew Art.of.Death 299	Posted - 2015.10.11 18:34:00 - [84] - Quote CUSE TOWN333 wrote: Mr.Pepe Le Pew wrote: CUSE TOWN333 wrote: In theory all these changes sound good on paper. In reality in game its cheesey as all ways. The way dust works when you fight to win CQC weapons pretty much dominate with the way the objective structures are designed. Its the reason the shotgun, hmg, and AR have all ways been hard to balance. Good players know how to position themselves to get in CQC range. Even on the bridge map in PC lastnight in order to get to the outside letters you must put yourself in a CQC situation. Vets will know in order to win= i should use this OP combo. Its the reason people have been crying about heavys with Hmgs and assaults with shotguns for so long. Make something to strong in CQC and trust me it will git spamed to death until we realize the game got way to cheesey again. Your balance culture is flawed. Im shocked this was allowed to happen as the new CPMs are very knowledgeable ingame players. Your position is contradictory to itself. If I understood correctly, your first few statements explain how CQC weapons are the weapons used to win. And I quote, "The way dust works when you fight to win CQC weapons pretty much dominate with the way the objective structures are designed." However you go on to explain how a good player will position himself and create a combo that best works for him. So which is it? the CQC weapon? the combo? the positioning? If your answer is all three, then I agree with you. Hence the contradiction to your first premise that the AR buff makes the game cheesy because its the only weapon and combo you can use in the game to be a cqc king. May I remind you that you also mentioned the shotgun, heavies with HMG's. The AR is competitive now. And smart players witll understand how to counter a Gal Assault with an AR. The game is about tactics, counters. So now, the AR on Gal assault gives the player base a new tactic, a new puzzle to solve. Anyone too lazy to find a counter, is well...another kill on my killfeed. :) what you will find is the counter is to get a respec and use the same weapon and suit that is OP. That makes 90% of a PC team all use the same gun and suit hence the cheese mode. Trust me we tryed it lastnight whole team gal assaults with AR it was down right rude. Yes good players will use positioning and tactics to get in range to maximize the OP CQC weapon canceling its only drawback. And the map structures dictate in order to take and hold a letter you will most likely be in a CQC situation. What did you not understand? I never said I didn't understand. I said your statement is a contradiction. If you get a PC team and run nothing but super fast Min Assaults with shotties, then you'll get the same result. OP. If you get a bunch of sneaky cloak scouts, same thing. Your example of running a PC team full of Gal Assaults is a poor example to show how OP the Gal assault bonus with AR is. Even if the maps dictate the use of CQC weapons, you have remember that the AR is not the ONLY viable CQC weapon. Long distance weapons like the RR and ScR with a freaking charge shot are great options for CQC. Hence the problem with your view that AR is OP because it's usable and viable weapon now. A counter to the Gal assault is get a distance weapon. Get a laser, RR, ARR, ScR, and shoot at a distance. Get a damped shottie and shoot them in the back. Your idea of a respect to counter is the lazy way out. CEO / Art.of.Death
Aeon Amadi 12	Posted - 2015.10.11 21:21:00 - [85] - Quote CUSE TOWN333 wrote: So if the HMG has a big range disadvantage and the mobility of a slow heavy. And the shotgun has a huge range disadvantage. Then one can come to the conclusion that the gal assault with a AR would be the best overall option. Dust should never work like that. Kind of over-simplifying things. Yes, the HMG may have taken a hit and it was something the CPM was talking about before the hotfix even deployed. The shotgun, on the other hand, has always been an extremely high alpha weapon that requires a specific range. Even when HMGs were over-performing back in 1.8, shotguns were doing just fine. But even still, the most used HMG at the moment is the AHMG, which lacks a lot of the range implications the HMG has. Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog Skype: nomistrav
CUSE TOWN333 Capital Acquisitions LLC 3	Posted - 2015.10.11 21:25:00 - [86] - Quote Your idea of getting a lazor rifle and sitting far away from a objective farming kills but never attacking and takeing said objective explains why your corp never wins a PC. but seriously how do you not understand that a gal assault is kind of the perfect option to have success in battle. Im just trolling and throwing my perspective out there i Don't care or want them to nerf it. But giveing a direct DPS buff to one suit seems the lazyist haphazard attempt at balance i have seen to date on dust. actions speak louder then words.
Ardos 130297 Prima Gallicus 64	Posted - 2015.10.11 21:29:00 - [87] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: CUSE TOWN333 wrote: So if the HMG has a big range disadvantage and the mobility of a slow heavy. And the shotgun has a huge range disadvantage. Then one can come to the conclusion that the gal assault with a AR would be the best overall option. Dust should never work like that. Kind of over-simplifying things. Yes, the HMG may have taken a hit and it was something the CPM was talking about before the hotfix even deployed. The shotgun, on the other hand, has always been an extremely high alpha weapon that requires a specific range. Even when HMGs were over-performing back in 1.8, shotguns were doing just fine. But even still, the most used HMG at the moment is the AHMG, which lacks a lot of the range implications the HMG has. It's strange, because I play with AHMG sometimes, but I don't know why every guys play it in CQC. I don't like this AHMG in CQC, the vanilla HMG is very good. You've got the versatility (kill infantry at mid range and destroy vehicle at short range) but isn't the best at short range. You do not win a war by making what is just... You win it by making what is necessary... Veteran Closed Beta
CUSE TOWN333 Capital Acquisitions LLC 3	Posted - 2015.10.11 21:32:00 - [88] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: CUSE TOWN333 wrote: So if the HMG has a big range disadvantage and the mobility of a slow heavy. And the shotgun has a huge range disadvantage. Then one can come to the conclusion that the gal assault with a AR would be the best overall option. Dust should never work like that. Kind of over-simplifying things. Yes, the HMG may have taken a hit and it was something the CPM was talking about before the hotfix even deployed. The shotgun, on the other hand, has always been an extremely high alpha weapon that requires a specific range. Even when HMGs were over-performing back in 1.8, shotguns were doing just fine. But even still, the most used HMG at the moment is the AHMG, which lacks a lot of the range implications the HMG has. the way i see it and ill also use Sgt Kirks perspective because we are gal assault and AR loyalist and used to talk about it a lot. Yes lore of the plazma rifle says it should be a powerful CQC weapon. But in playing the game it seems like a bad idea to buff it in this manner. I never said anything when they nerfed the crap out of my heavy and HMG but a rifle that has rifle range should never have that much CQC power regardless of race, lore, or whatever. actions speak louder then words.
Mr.Pepe Le Pew Art.of.Death 300	Posted - 2015.10.11 22:49:00 - [89] - Quote CUSE TOWN333 wrote: Your idea of getting a lazor rifle and sitting far away from a objective farming kills but never attacking and takeing said objective explains why your corp never wins a PC. but seriously how do you not understand that a gal assault is kind of the perfect option to have success in battle. Im just trolling and throwing my perspective out there i Don't care or want them to nerf it. But giveing a direct DPS buff to one suit seems the lazyist haphazard attempt at balance i have seen to date on dust. Last time I checked, we sold our districts months ago. PC is one of the most flawed game modes in Dust. Mainly because of LAG. Also, I don't remember losing very often. Ask FA when we cloned them out or EB when they lost 3 out of 4 in a row, or Death Card, Pendejitos or all the others that tried to take our district but failed. We lost a few, but we won most. Your attempt at jabbing at us and straying away from the conversation just shows that you can't debate well. Also, in my post I mentioned multiple counterattacks including shotties and ScR ARR which are still really really good at CQC. To cry and moan about the Gal Assault bonus and to say you don't want it nerfed cause you are just trolling is well....trolling. So I salute your solid trolling game. lmao o7 CEO / Art.of.Death
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 51	Posted - 2015.10.11 22:55:00 - [90] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Well for one the person you're responding to isn't too familiar with the lore in this case. Don't let that confuse you. Game design and lore can go hand to hand. It's just some people quite frankly have no idea about the lore. For one, we don't put any lore aspects in game at all besides the descriptions. I know plenty about the lore of EvE! Just because races have been forced to use each other's weapons in the past doesn't make using everyone else's weapons part of the lore of EvE. There are still racial restrictions, and they certainly are part of the game, as evidenced by the bonuses on appropriate suits. You may wish there weren't but it's a part of the EvE universe that actually makes it fun, getting around the racial restrictions. Or for people like me, proving that you can outclass all the FoTM players by sticking to training one race. It's a harder road, thanks to people who do succeed in getting these racial restrictions at least eased if not completely removed. You don't have to like the racial restrictions and feel free to try to deny they exist all you like, but they aren't going away from the EvE universe, even if you get them removed from Dust.

Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 12	Posted - 2015.10.11 23:43:00 - [91] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: Well for one the person you're responding to isn't too familiar with the lore in this case. Don't let that confuse you. Game design and lore can go hand to hand. It's just some people quite frankly have no idea about the lore. For one, we don't put any lore aspects in game at all besides the descriptions. I know plenty about the lore of EvE! Just because races have been forced to use each other's weapons in the past doesn't make using everyone else's weapons part of the lore of EvE. There are still racial restrictions, and they certainly are part of the game, as evidenced by the bonuses on appropriate suits. You may wish there weren't but it's a part of the EvE universe that actually makes it fun, getting around the racial restrictions. Or for people like me, proving that you can outclass all the FoTM players by sticking to training one race. It's a harder road, thanks to people who do succeed in getting these racial restrictions at least eased if not completely removed. You don't have to like the racial restrictions and feel free to try to deny they exist all you like, but they aren't going away from the EvE universe, even if you get them removed from Dust. You do know who you're talking to right? I only specialize in Gallente Gear, regardless of my SP amount nothing had dropped into other races suits or weapons. You wish to turn my words into something I didn't say. To put it into simpler terms, you can choose to fit what you want. Some combinations work out, some don't. It's up to the player to decide if the fit they have is viable. Whether it be following racial doctrine or not. Example in EVE there's a ship called the Vexor Navy Issue. Gallente as we all know Active Armor tank. However, this particular drone boat has a role and a slot layout that happens to make it a nice Shield tanked drone boat that specializes in drone damage because the low slots aren't being used for armor modules but instead drone damage mods. That is an example of doing what's viable as long as it works out. An example of something not working out to your advantage would be the Gallente Deimos that gets a bonus to armor repair rate. Sure you could shield tank it, but you'd be wasting an incredibly good bonus. As well as using Autocannons on it, why would you do that? But you can if you want to. You may not be getting good results but you're not bound by anything. Only encouraged. What matters in the end are the results. Sgt Kirk's Propaganda Youtube Channel
V1RONXSS X-SENSE Security 77	Posted - 2015.10.12 11:52:00 - [92] - Quote Eskel Bondfree wrote: If I understand correctly, the reason for the AR ROF bonus on Gallente assauts was that assault rifles in general underperformed. So now, the ARs are great on Gallente assaults, but they still underperform for everybody else except the GalAss. Working as intended? I don't get it. Because in EVE its called " Darwin fit" if you using none racial weapons, couse all ships have bonuses to their racial weapons only, and only under special circumstances like arti abbadon battleship for fleet battles and some fun/trapp ships. @ CCP, THX for making AR actually viable weapon, pls move that direction, also would be nice if you can update skills description with current bonuses that were changed. o7 The "Chiki Briki v Damki" Starter Pack.
IAmDuncanIdaho II Nos Nothi 4	Posted - 2015.10.12 12:15:00 - [93] - Quote V1RONXSS wrote: Eskel Bondfree wrote: If I understand correctly, the reason for the AR ROF bonus on Gallente assauts was that assault rifles in general underperformed. So now, the ARs are great on Gallente assaults, but they still underperform for everybody else except the GalAss. Working as intended? I don't get it. Because in EVE its called " Darwin fit" if you using none racial weapons, couse all ships have bonuses to their racial weapons only, and only under special circumstances like arti abbadon battleship for fleet battles and some fun/trapp ships. @ CCP, THX for making AR actually viable weapon, pls move that direction, also would be nice if you can update skills description with current bonuses that were changed. o7 He wasn't saying other races should have it as good as the gal, he was saying AR is still under-performing for other races because that wasn't buffed. You need to read some of the posts made after that one. Specifically suggestions that a (these are examples) 10% bonus to Gal + AR and a 5% bonus to AR might've arrived at a more balanced outcome, namely, Gal + AR is on par with other min/maxed suit/gun combos, others with AR got a little better. This post has been liked by XxBlazikenxX
Starlight Burner Titans of Phoenix Damage LLC 545	Posted - 2015.10.12 14:49:00 - [94] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I think I have told you before that you are wrong. The whole AR family is bottom of the class, by far. Because y'all are scrubs and don't know how to use the TAR and Burst. The Vanilla AR is trash. CEO of Arrary of Clusters, a close relations corporation Caldari Factional Warfare, enlist today! Thank you for DUST
Starlight Burner Titans of Phoenix Damage LLC 545	Posted - 2015.10.12 14:55:00 - [95] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Im going to have to agree on this one. The AR in a Non-Gal assault is still performing below what it should have. Good, we want to encourage racial fitting. Not mix matching. CEO of Arrary of Clusters, a close relations corporation Caldari Factional Warfare, enlist today! Thank you for DUST
Alcina Nektaria KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 389	Posted - 2015.10.12 17:56:00 - [96] - Quote Mr.Pepe Le Pew wrote: Even if the maps dictate the use of CQC weapons, you have remember that the AR is not the ONLY viable CQC weapon. Long distance weapons like the RR and ScR with a freaking charge shot are great options for CQC. Hence the problem with your view that AR is OP because it's usable and viable weapon now. A counter to the Gal assault is get a distance weapon. Get a laser, RR, ARR, ScR, and shoot at a distance. Get a damped shottie and shoot them in the back. Your idea of a respect to counter is the lazy way out. You are absolutely right. It's super easy to kill a Gal Assault, especially with scouts or with long range. When I run my scout, it only takes 2 shots from my shotgun and a Gal Assault is down, especially from behind (same with Amarr Assaults if you would like a comparison). As a Gal Assault, I rage when I'm taken down at range with a Rail Rifle or a Srambler, or even a Laser. It is 100% manageable if you possess any sort of tactical skill. KEQ and ROFL. Diplomat. D4GG3R is my mom. Only REAL pancakes wear dresses.GÖÑ
Ralden Caster Random Gunz Rise Of Legion. 379	Posted - 2015.10.12 18:27:00 - [97] - Quote I like chili dogs, do you like chili dogs? Gallente is photon gear confirmed.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 6	Posted - 2015.10.12 22:39:00 - [98] - Quote Starlight Burner wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Im going to have to agree on this one. The AR in a Non-Gal assault is still performing below what it should have. Good, we want to encourage racial fitting. Not mix matching. While I agree with that, the AR on a Non Assault underperforms compared to say a Combat Rifle on a Non Assault. If I put an AR on a random Logistics suit, it needs to perform just as well as a Combat/Rail/Scrambler Rifle on that same suit, and currently it does not. "That little sh*t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 2	Posted - 2015.10.13 10:31:00 - [99] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Probably a good thing usage stats aren't the only thing that gets looked at then, huh? =P the changes show a different story
Vesta Opalus PROJECT OF KILLERS. RUST415 1	Posted - 2015.10.13 16:23:00 - [100] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: From what I've seen (not talking about in-game) this isn't entirely correct. The AR family sees (saw) the least use out of the entire rifle line-up with the Burst and Tactical being the most under-used rifles in the game. Burst/Tac numbers were so low that they barely even registered on the chart. this is why use stats should not be used as base for balance. the TAR is a SCR with no overheat, slightly less range but more DPS. it actually is one of the best weapons in the game. It doesnt matter how good the TAR is if the TSCR is better. The scrambler is still best in class, and the TAR is still worst in class. Disclaimer: I still havent used the scr post hotfix so I dont know if its still better than the TAR. In any case its my opinion that both the tactical rifles are hideously overpowered.

JIMvc2 KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 1	Posted - 2015.10.13 16:28:00 - [101] - Quote Starlight Burner wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I think I have told you before that you are wrong. The whole AR family is bottom of the class, by far. Because y'all are scrubs and don't know how to use the TAR and Burst. The Vanilla AR is trash. I would be careful if I were you. I use the Vanilla Assault Rifle and trust me its NOT crap. Once you see your name on the kill feed by the Assault Rifle = enjoy the taste of victory. Judge my muscle content then I'll judge you by your Half Marathon time. Never underestimate runners - "Jim"
Vesta Opalus PROJECT OF KILLERS. RUST415 1	Posted - 2015.10.13 16:30:00 - [102] - Quote CUSE TOWN333 wrote: So if the HMG has a big range disadvantage and the mobility of a slow heavy. And the shotgun has a huge range disadvantage. Then one can come to the conclusion that the gal assault with a AR would be the best overall option. Dust should never work like that. Why not? The HMG does more damage than the shotgun or the AR, the shotgun excels if used with effective ambush tactics, the AR has a longer range but less damage than either, and also has range issues against other weapons which limit its effectiveness. Whats the problem here in your eyes? All of these weapons are situationally effective when set against each other or other weapons not mentioned. Thats how balance works.
Regnier Feros Dead Man's Game 885	Posted - 2015.10.13 16:55:00 - [103] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: Jack McReady wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: From what I've seen (not talking about in-game) this isn't entirely correct. The AR family sees (saw) the least use out of the entire rifle line-up with the Burst and Tactical being the most under-used rifles in the game. Burst/Tac numbers were so low that they barely even registered on the chart. this is why use stats should not be used as base for balance. the TAR is a SCR with no overheat, slightly less range but more DPS. it actually is one of the best weapons in the game. It doesnt matter how good the TAR is if the TSCR is better. The scrambler is still best in class, and the TAR is still worst in class. Disclaimer: I still havent used the scr post hotfix so I dont know if its still better than the TAR. In any case its my opinion that both the tactical rifles are hideously overpowered. The recent increased kick makes it less spam worthy. I feel a bit iffy about the using the charge shot..... I'm still sticking with the AScr though. I LIKE PIE
Georgia Xavier Incorruptibles 1	Posted - 2015.10.13 18:25:00 - [104] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: Jack McReady wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: From what I've seen (not talking about in-game) this isn't entirely correct. The AR family sees (saw) the least use out of the entire rifle line-up with the Burst and Tactical being the most under-used rifles in the game. Burst/Tac numbers were so low that they barely even registered on the chart. this is why use stats should not be used as base for balance. the TAR is a SCR with no overheat, slightly less range but more DPS. it actually is one of the best weapons in the game. It doesnt matter how good the TAR is if the TSCR is better. The scrambler is still best in class, and the TAR is still worst in class. Disclaimer: I still havent used the scr post hotfix so I dont know if its still better than the TAR. In any case its my opinion that both the tactical rifles are hideously overpowered. Bruh, ScR didn't change much but the nerf does mess with your rhythm a bit, according to my experience of course. I still wish the scr had more zoom like the tar Click for an instant good day! (or atleast cheer you up a bit)
Vesta Opalus PROJECT OF KILLERS. RUST415 1	Posted - 2015.10.13 18:55:00 - [105] - Quote Georgia Xavier wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: Jack McReady wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: From what I've seen (not talking about in-game) this isn't entirely correct. The AR family sees (saw) the least use out of the entire rifle line-up with the Burst and Tactical being the most under-used rifles in the game. Burst/Tac numbers were so low that they barely even registered on the chart. this is why use stats should not be used as base for balance. the TAR is a SCR with no overheat, slightly less range but more DPS. it actually is one of the best weapons in the game. It doesnt matter how good the TAR is if the TSCR is better. The scrambler is still best in class, and the TAR is still worst in class. Disclaimer: I still havent used the scr post hotfix so I dont know if its still better than the TAR. In any case its my opinion that both the tactical rifles are hideously overpowered. Bruh, ScR didn't change much but the nerf does mess with your rhythm a bit, according to my experience of course. I still wish the scr had more zoom like the tar Yeh Im going to try it once I finish dicking around with the magsec and ARs, I didnt think the SCR nerfs would do much except for non-amarr assaults where its less OP anyway.


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