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Eskel Bondfree
I want to be CEO
199
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Posted - 2015.10.09 15:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
If I understand correctly, the reason for the AR ROF bonus on Gallente assauts was that assault rifles in general underperformed.
So now, the ARs are great on Gallente assaults, but they still underperform for everybody else except the GalAss.
Working as intended? I don't get it. |
Eskel Bondfree
I want to be CEO
199
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Posted - 2015.10.09 16:04:00 -
[2] - Quote
Summa Militum wrote:
Also, you need to use weapons that compliment your suit for best results. If you are not skilled into Gallente Assault then don't run with the Assault Rifle.
Well, what about logis, scouts, commandos? Should they just use shot guns, mass drivers and side arms?
More generally, I belive every weapon should be a valid choice on any suit, not matter of its race. Freedom of choice, this is the core of Dust to me. |
Eskel Bondfree
I want to be CEO
199
|
Posted - 2015.10.09 18:33:00 -
[3] - Quote
Jonny D Buelle wrote:Eskel Bondfree wrote:Summa Militum wrote:
Also, you need to use weapons that compliment your suit for best results. If you are not skilled into Gallente Assault then don't run with the Assault Rifle.
Well, what about logis, scouts, commandos? Should they just use shot guns, mass drivers and side arms? More generally, I belive every weapon should be a valid choice on any suit, not matter of its race. Freedom of choice, this is the core of Dust to me. The freedom of choice still exists. I can run any suit with any weapon. It is recommended you use the racial rifle when running a specific assault suit, but nothing is stopping you from strapping an AScR to a GalAss, or a RR to an AmarrAss. Also nothing is etopping logis and commandos and scouts from choosing whatever they feel comfortable with. Also I am a bit hurt your didnt mention us Sentinels, we can use light weapons too! If we wanted too.. Also think of it in terms of ships in EVE. You could fit projectile turrets on an Amarr frigate, but it will underperform, so you would want to fit Laser turrets instead.
I did not mention Sents because I feared people would just start flaming if I suggested a Sent player could use anything but a heavy weapon... 
About your point, though: if every weapon but one underperforms on a suit, than I don't consider the other weapons a viable choice anymore. Viable is the key word here.
In EVE, nobody ever fits anything but racial weapons, it's common knowledge that anything else will inevitably result in total sh!tfit 99% of the time. Frankly, I don't even know why you can fit non racial weapons in EVE, because it doesn't make much sense. In other words, there is a choice, but it doesn't really matter. I don't want to see Dust become like this.
But my point was: the AR should perform well as a weapon on its own, it should perform well on logis, scouts, commandos, and sentinels (and basic suits!), not only on assaults. So I was confused when the AR was buffed for assaults only, even though most people seemed to believe that the AR was a bit weak in general.
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Eskel Bondfree
I want to be CEO
199
|
Posted - 2015.10.09 19:10:00 -
[4] - Quote
Jonny D Buelle wrote:
Have you not seen a Minmatar Assault using a shotgun and wrecking sh.t up? Or a Gallente Assault using an RR and racking in the kills? Last night I saw a few of them. So using a non racial weapon on an assault suit is still viable, it comes down to your skills as a player and how you fit your suit.
Yes the vanilla AR is weak, but the TAR or the Breach in the hands of a skilled Gallente Commando wrecks sh.t up. Sure Logis and Scouts and Sentinels underperform with it. But it happens, the changes that CCP put in have brought the AR back into the fold though which is brilliant.
I didn't claim that Dust already is the same as EVE, I said I don't want it to become like it.
This is what I objected to:
Summa Militum wrote:
If you are not skilled into Gallente Assault then don't run with the Assault Rifle.
The AR should not underperform on any suit. Period. Making it only viable on a single suit does not seem logical to me. |
Eskel Bondfree
I want to be CEO
201
|
Posted - 2015.10.10 17:25:00 -
[5] - Quote
Alena Asakura wrote:Why do you think that freedom of choice is the core of Dust? There is nothing in the lore of New Eden to give anyone that impression.
Choosing your dropsuit, your weapon, the modules on that suit, and all the endless combinations and possibilities that come with that system are what sets Dust apart from any other team based FPS. It makes Dust unique, it's the reason why this game lives on. Take away the whole fitting system with all it's choices, and Dust 514 would be a truly terrible game with no good reaon to play it.
Lore has nothing to do with. You don't let game design be dictated by game lore. You design the game first, then you add in lore that fits with your design. You can always bent the lore to go along with your design decisions if necessary, because after all, it's completely made up in the first place.
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Eskel Bondfree
I want to be CEO
201
|
Posted - 2015.10.10 18:58:00 -
[6] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:Game design and lore can go hand to hand
Of course they can. What I'm saying is when you're making game design decisions for the sake of game lore, and not for the sake of better game play, you're making a big mistake (in my humble opinion).
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Eskel Bondfree
I want to be CEO
209
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Posted - 2015.10.10 21:34:00 -
[7] - Quote
Could you please move somewhere else with the mutual insults and discussion about CPM-is-CCP-is-not-CCP and keep this thread somewhat on topic? That would be great, thank you. |
Eskel Bondfree
I want to be CEO
211
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Posted - 2015.10.11 10:28:00 -
[8] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Joel II X wrote:Question: What was the AR's drawback, except for range?
Answer: Besides range? Hmm... Well, it has a decent magazine size as well as reserves. We can't tweak damage without it being OP. It doesn't have a great mechanic...
Question: Okay. What if we took its strength to the next level? In other words, improve the CQC function? Perhaps RoF bonus?
Answer: Sure, let's go with that. I say 2%.
Proposed action: Loud and clear. I'll give you guys 5% bonus to AR RoF.
Answer: LOLno. That's OP as sh
Proposed action: 3%?
Answer: Much better.
That's the gist of it. spot on
I'm with you so far. But I still don't understand the part where you apply this fix to only 1 out of 32 drop suits in the game, and not to the AR as a weapon.
Correct me if I'm wrong, Rattati, but this is what I understood:
Pre FoxFour, GalAss using an AR and its underwhelming bonus didn't really hold up to a GalAss using any other rifle with no bonus.
If this was true, then by extension it was also true for any other suit in the game: CalLogi with AR doesn't hold up to CalLogi with any other rifle, AmScout with AR doesn't hold up to AmScout with any other rifle, basic medium with AR doesn't hold up to basic medium with any other rifle...
I mean, just because I don't play assault doesn't mean I don't care about the balancing of the weapon I use.
In my opinion, that situation should have been fixed by giving a small ROF bonus to all ARs, and then giving another small ROF bonus to the GalAss so it would come out where it is today (rather than giving the whole ROF bonus to the GalAss only).
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Eskel Bondfree
I want to be CEO
211
|
Posted - 2015.10.11 17:05:00 -
[9] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Eskel Bondfree wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Joel II X wrote:Question: What was the AR's drawback, except for range?
Answer: Besides range? Hmm... Well, it has a decent magazine size as well as reserves. We can't tweak damage without it being OP. It doesn't have a great mechanic...
Question: Okay. What if we took its strength to the next level? In other words, improve the CQC function? Perhaps RoF bonus?
Answer: Sure, let's go with that. I say 2%.
Proposed action: Loud and clear. I'll give you guys 5% bonus to AR RoF.
Answer: LOLno. That's OP as sh
Proposed action: 3%?
Answer: Much better.
That's the gist of it. spot on I'm with you so far. But I still don't understand the part where you apply this fix to only 1 out of 32 drop suits in the game, and not to the AR as a weapon. Correct me if I'm wrong, Rattati, but this is what I understood: Pre FoxFour, GalAss using an AR and its underwhelming bonus didn't really hold up to a GalAss using any other rifle with no bonus. If this was true, then by extension it was also true for any other suit in the game: CalLogi with AR doesn't hold up to CalLogi with any other rifle, AmScout with AR doesn't hold up to AmScout with any other rifle, basic medium with AR doesn't hold up to basic medium with any other rifle... I mean, just because I don't play assault doesn't mean I don't care about the balancing of the weapon I use. In my opinion, that situation should have been fixed by giving a small ROF bonus to all ARs, and then giving another small ROF bonus to the GalAss so it would come out where it is today (rather than giving the whole ROF bonus to the GalAss only). Im going to have to agree on this one. The AR in a Non-Gal assault is still performing below what it should have. I think a +5% RoF bonus to the base weapon and then a +10% RoF bonus for the Gal Assault would have been a more appropriate action if indeed the RoF is the direction the developers wanted to take the weapon. Was thinking this as well. Will write down a note of it if it is necessary post FoxFour (I.E, if ARs are considering only viable on Gal Assaults)
Glad to hear that. |
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