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Someone explain the thinking behind the AR ROF bonus to me

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Eskel Bondfree I want to be CEO 201	Posted - 2015.10.10 17:25:00 - [31] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: Why do you think that freedom of choice is the core of Dust? There is nothing in the lore of New Eden to give anyone that impression. Choosing your dropsuit, your weapon, the modules on that suit, and all the endless combinations and possibilities that come with that system are what sets Dust apart from any other team based FPS. It makes Dust unique, it's the reason why this game lives on. Take away the whole fitting system with all it's choices, and Dust 514 would be a truly terrible game with no good reaon to play it. Lore has nothing to do with. You don't let game design be dictated by game lore. You design the game first, then you add in lore that fits with your design. You can always bent the lore to go along with your design decisions if necessary, because after all, it's completely made up in the first place.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 12	Posted - 2015.10.10 18:28:00 - [32] - Quote Eskel Bondfree wrote: Alena Asakura wrote: Why do you think that freedom of choice is the core of Dust? There is nothing in the lore of New Eden to give anyone that impression. Choosing your dropsuit, your weapon, the modules on that suit, and all the endless combinations and possibilities that come with that system are what sets Dust apart from any other team based FPS. It makes Dust unique, it's the reason why this game lives on. Take away the whole fitting system with all it's choices, and Dust 514 would be a truly terrible game with no good reaon to play it. Lore has nothing to do with. You don't let game design be dictated by game lore. You design the game first, then you add in lore that fits with your design. You can always bent the lore to go along with your design decisions if necessary, because after all, it's completely made up in the first place. Well for one the person you're responding to isn't too familiar with the lore in this case. Don't let that confuse you. Game design and lore can go hand to hand. It's just some people quite frankly have no idea about the lore. For one, we don't put any lore aspects in game at all besides the descriptions. Minmatar in the past have used weapons that aren't' of their own for survival, countless times and still do. They do what it takes to win. That's why the Repair tool was made from components of every major empire. During the Invasion of Caldari Prime the Gallente Bravo Company had to switch to using Minmatar weapons because the Caldari ECM rendered Gallente weapons useless. Races don't just not use each other's stuff. There's still plenty of freedom to do as you wish it's just the fits themselves incentives uniformity, like anything in life. (Look at Apple and Microsoft) Doesn't mean you're shoehorned into using only that races items like some lolLore "experts" would have you believe. Now somethings of course are just a bad idea, trying to Armor Tank a Caldari Commando for frontline fighting for instance is not a good idea but you can still do it if you want...for some reason. Sgt Kirk's Propaganda Youtube Channel
Eskel Bondfree I want to be CEO 201	Posted - 2015.10.10 18:58:00 - [33] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Game design and lore can go hand to hand Of course they can. What I'm saying is when you're making game design decisions for the sake of game lore, and not for the sake of better game play, you're making a big mistake (in my humble opinion).
BARAGAMOS Kinsho Swords Caldari State 280	Posted - 2015.10.10 20:29:00 - [34] - Quote My only real question is who thought that giving a GALASS the equivalent of two free complex mods + 1% without stacking penalties was the way to fix ARs? I don't think there is an assault bonus on any other suit that anyone would not trade for a free 15% dps increase. Frankly, the breach has been knocking my "new" shields off of me at ranges farther than my rail rifle now does damage to them. Not sure why an AR was supposed to be the better long range weapon........with damage mods and the DPS bonus however, it outperforms my rail rifle every game. Just saying I was really looking forward to the AR getting some love as its one of my personal favorite guns, but in truth ARs did not get love. The Gal Assault did. Not what most of us were wanting, and in truth looks to have created an all new "scrambler Rifle" issue with the breach.
BARAGAMOS Kinsho Swords Caldari State 280	Posted - 2015.10.10 20:33:00 - [35] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Well for one the person you're responding to isn't too familiar with the lore in this case. Don't let that confuse you. Game design and lore can go hand to hand. It's just some people quite frankly have no idea about the lore. For one, we don't put any lore aspects in game at all besides the descriptions. WE? Was not aware you did anything for CCP.....must have missed your hire date on the development team.
Georgia Xavier Incorruptibles 1	Posted - 2015.10.10 20:38:00 - [36] - Quote BARAGAMOS wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: Well for one the person you're responding to isn't too familiar with the lore in this case. Don't let that confuse you. Game design and lore can go hand to hand. It's just some people quite frankly have no idea about the lore. For one, we don't put any lore aspects in game at all besides the descriptions. WE? Was not aware you did anything for CCP.....must have missed your hire date on the development team. He does more for CCP than you at the very least Click for an instant good day! (or atleast cheer you up a bit)
BARAGAMOS Kinsho Swords Caldari State 280	Posted - 2015.10.10 20:42:00 - [37] - Quote Georgia Xavier wrote: BARAGAMOS wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: Well for one the person you're responding to isn't too familiar with the lore in this case. Don't let that confuse you. Game design and lore can go hand to hand. It's just some people quite frankly have no idea about the lore. For one, we don't put any lore aspects in game at all besides the descriptions. WE? Was not aware you did anything for CCP.....must have missed your hire date on the development team. He does more for CCP than you at the very least Obviously, a fan boy....when he does exactly the same..... If you want to make dumbass comments make then to yourself kid, because obviously the post went over your small head.
Georgia Xavier Incorruptibles 1	Posted - 2015.10.10 20:43:00 - [38] - Quote BARAGAMOS wrote: If you want to make dumbass comments make then to yourself kid, because obviously the post went over your small head. I could say the same to you because all you ever did was complain in the forums lol Click for an instant good day! (or atleast cheer you up a bit)
BARAGAMOS Kinsho Swords Caldari State 280	Posted - 2015.10.10 20:48:00 - [39] - Quote Georgia Xavier wrote: BARAGAMOS wrote: If you want to make dumbass comments make then to yourself kid, because obviously the post went over your small head. I could say the same to you because all you ever did was complain in the forums lol Again lack of reading comprehension.... Complaining is not one of my fortes. Calling out guys like you who can't read well, however, is. If you want to date him that's your business. If he wants to speak for CCP then yeah he'll get called out.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 12	Posted - 2015.10.10 20:50:00 - [40] - Quote BARAGAMOS wrote: Frankly, the breach has been knocking my "new" shields off of me at ranges farther than my rail rifle now does damage to them. Not sure why an AR was supposed to be the better long range weapon........with damage mods and the DPS bonus however At 75m the kaalakiota Rail Rifle does 100% full damage at 397 DPS base damage, no damage mods, skills or anything. The Creodron Breach AR at 75 meters is at 33% efficacy and only does 174.99 DPS (against shields and Gal assault bonus I add) with the introduction of a damage mod you're doing about 206 DPS and with another damage mod you're doing 218 DPS. So, even against an Unskilled Kaalkiota Rail Rifle with no damage mods at Optimal Range (75m) you're doing 179 more DPS than a Creodron Breach AR with max Gallente Assault Skill and two damage mods outside it's optimal range of 39 meters at 75m. Now, there very well may be an issue with the breach ARs DPS around it's optimal but to say that the breach can contend with a Rail Rifle at it's range I feel is extreme hyperbole. Sgt Kirk's Propaganda Youtube Channel

Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 12	Posted - 2015.10.10 20:53:00 - [41] - Quote Georgia Xavier wrote: BARAGAMOS wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: Well for one the person you're responding to isn't too familiar with the lore in this case. Don't let that confuse you. Game design and lore can go hand to hand. It's just some people quite frankly have no idea about the lore. For one, we don't put any lore aspects in game at all besides the descriptions. WE? Was not aware you did anything for CCP.....must have missed your hire date on the development team. He does more for CCP than you at the very least Don't bother paying him attention. If he wants to start flaming over trivial wording then let him have his tantrum. Replace "we" with "CCP", problem solved and moving on. Sgt Kirk's Propaganda Youtube Channel
Georgia Xavier Incorruptibles 1	Posted - 2015.10.10 20:56:00 - [42] - Quote BARAGAMOS wrote: Georgia Xavier wrote: BARAGAMOS wrote: If you want to make dumbass comments make then to yourself kid, because obviously the post went over your small head. I could say the same to you because all you ever did was complain in the forums lol Again lack of reading comprehension.... Complaining is not one of my fortes. Calling out guys like you who can't read well, however, is. If you want to date him that's your business. If he wants to speak for CCP then yeah he'll get called out. Don't confuse me calling you out on your b*tchiness as kissing up to the cpm because quite frankly I'd rather not. Second, I'm not referring to your post in this thread, I meant in general because really you always sound like you got a broom stuck in your colon Click for an instant good day! (or atleast cheer you up a bit)
BARAGAMOS Kinsho Swords Caldari State 280	Posted - 2015.10.10 21:01:00 - [43] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: BARAGAMOS wrote: Frankly, the breach has been knocking my "new" shields off of me at ranges farther than my rail rifle now does damage to them. Not sure why an AR was supposed to be the better long range weapon........with damage mods and the DPS bonus however At 75m the kaalakiota Rail Rifle does 100% full damage at 397 DPS base damage, no damage mods, skills or anything. The Creodron Breach AR at 75 meters is at 33% efficacy and only does 174.99 DPS (against shields and Gal assault bonus I add) with the introduction of a damage mod you're doing about 206 DPS and with another damage mod you're doing 218 DPS. So, even against an Unskilled Kaalkiota Rail Rifle with no damage mods at Optimal Range (75m) you're doing 179 more DPS than a Creodron Breach AR with max skills, max Gallente Assault Skill and two damage mods outside it's optimal range of 39 meters at 75m. Now, there very well may be an issue with the breach ARs DPS around it's optimal but to say that the breach can contend with a Rail Rifle at it's range I feel is extreme hyperbole. I think the issue is on the game there are not many engagements at 75 meters...and most are way under the 39 meter mark. So at ranges of under that range the breach is over performing. At least, in the GALASS hands. It would have been nice to see the AR family get a general buff so its usable for all, not an overwhelming buff for one set of suits.
BARAGAMOS Kinsho Swords Caldari State 280	Posted - 2015.10.10 21:07:00 - [44] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Georgia Xavier wrote: BARAGAMOS wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: Well for one the person you're responding to isn't too familiar with the lore in this case. Don't let that confuse you. Game design and lore can go hand to hand. It's just some people quite frankly have no idea about the lore. For one, we don't put any lore aspects in game at all besides the descriptions. WE? Was not aware you did anything for CCP.....must have missed your hire date on the development team. He does more for CCP than you at the very least Don't bother paying him attention. If he wants to start flaming over trivial wording then let him have his tantrum. Replace "we" with "CCP", problem solved and moving on. See its not trivial, "We" and "CCP" imply two much different things. One construes an official position the other an opinion. You get to share opinions, sometimes even well informed ones. You don't get to make official positions. Just saying that it is pretty big hubris to even use the word 'WE".
BARAGAMOS Kinsho Swords Caldari State 280	Posted - 2015.10.10 21:08:00 - [45] - Quote Georgia Xavier wrote: BARAGAMOS wrote: Georgia Xavier wrote: BARAGAMOS wrote: If you want to make dumbass comments make then to yourself kid, because obviously the post went over your small head. I could say the same to you because all you ever did was complain in the forums lol Again lack of reading comprehension.... Complaining is not one of my fortes. Calling out guys like you who can't read well, however, is. If you want to date him that's your business. If he wants to speak for CCP then yeah he'll get called out. Don't confuse me calling you out on your b*tchiness as kissing up to the cpm because quite frankly I'd rather not. Second, I'm not referring to your post in this thread, I meant in general because really you always sound like you got a broom stuck in your colon Looks the only kid getting bitchy seems to be you, but it sure does look like fan boy love to me. Just saying...random comments like that usually are.
Eskel Bondfree I want to be CEO 209	Posted - 2015.10.10 21:34:00 - [46] - Quote Could you please move somewhere else with the mutual insults and discussion about CPM-is-CCP-is-not-CCP and keep this thread somewhat on topic? That would be great, thank you.
Mortedeamor The Black Masquerade 1	Posted - 2015.10.10 21:45:00 - [47] - Quote 501st Headstrong wrote: Am I the only one who can kill a Gal Assault???/ Killed 2 with advanced ascr..on adv amassault..they are balanced I prefer to kill them at range Also got one with breach smg so I dunno though that could been scrubby gal assaults ..if love to see how a really good gal assault user fares at range vs my lr pc master race PORT IT CCP
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 12	Posted - 2015.10.10 22:02:00 - [48] - Quote Mortedeamor wrote: 501st Headstrong wrote: Am I the only one who can kill a Gal Assault???/ Killed 2 with advanced ascr..on adv amassault..they are balanced I prefer to kill them at range Also got one with breach smg so I dunno though that could been scrubby gal assaults ..if love to see how a really good gal assault user fares at range vs my lr Well, for one I'd get my ass out of there. It's a night and day difference between my performance in open area maps like the Pipeline map and the Communications outpost that is CQC. Often I'll just switch to a tank in open maps because I don't do well in open environment. Sgt Kirk's Propaganda Youtube Channel
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.10.10 23:11:00 - [49] - Quote Summa Militum wrote: The Breach Assault Rifle though I feel might become too OP if too many people start to develop decent gun game. I guess time will tell on this one though. The breach assault rifle has the best hit detection of the assault rifle line. You lose less shots to happenstance than with the more rapid firing rifles. But it's DPS on paper is still lower than the base assault. It's why most sentinels are gravitating to the AHMG. Better hit detection on slower rate of fire (we'll ignore the range nerf). But it was entirely appropriate IMHO to put the bonus to ARs on the assault only. The galmando actually hits harder at the base level and doesn't suffer overly much from the AR stats so much as it suffers being huge, slow and easy to hit. Galscouts tend to do better with the shotguns anyway, and other in close options, so buffing the AR for them would be mostly a nonissue save in niche fits. And does anyone really want AR/RR/CR/ScR performing better in the hands of sentinels? Logis are where I'm on the fence here. I realize it's a phenomenal pain in the ass for them to have a baseline subpar weapon, but I would need the logis to weigh in here before I comment on them. I actually questioned just bonusing the gallente assault in favor of just improving the rifles, but I think the choice went the right way. Your mileage may vary, but it pleases me that gallente assaults are beast mode in CQC with their racial weapon rather than better using rails. It pleases me that caldari are getting harder to kill at long range but retaining most of their vulnerability in CQC. But back to the breach: I don't think it will be OP overall because it shares the terrible range limit of the vanilla AR. If people bear in mind that gallente suits aren't great at range and prioritize inbound gallente suits and keep them out of reach things will even out. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 9	Posted - 2015.10.10 23:50:00 - [50] - Quote Question: What was the AR's drawback, except for range? Answer: Besides range? Hmm... Well, it has a decent magazine size as well as reserves. We can't tweak damage without it being OP. It doesn't have a great mechanic... Question: Okay. What if we took its strength to the next level? In other words, improve the CQC function? Perhaps RoF bonus? Answer: Sure, let's go with that. I say 2%. Proposed action: Loud and clear. I'll give you guys 5% bonus to AR RoF. Answer: LOLno. That's OP as shit. Lower it. Proposed action: 3%? Answer: Much better. That's the gist of it. *Scouts United* Gk.0s & Quafes all day.

Lightning35 Delta514 The Warlords Legion 2	Posted - 2015.10.10 23:54:00 - [51] - Quote Summa Militum wrote: Lightning35 Delta514 wrote: Yes. It is working as intended. They are now effective on galassaults. The same way scramblers where very effective on Amarr because of heat, the same way you have better control with rail rifles on caldari, and the same way you can spam with minmatar. It encourages racial fits. The Breach Assault Rifle should not have received the RoF bonus. It's kinda ironic considering it's the closest varient that works like so in eve and is the best cqc yet many don't think. It's good as it is. Fight at range. CEO of T-W-L YouTube- Lightning35 Delta514 Twitter- @LD3514
Ateroith KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 222	Posted - 2015.10.10 23:55:00 - [52] - Quote Oh my god, such long replies... "...Rule #2 - Never start a fight. Rule #3 - Never lose one either." - Lee Child
Roy Ventus Axis of Chaos 2	Posted - 2015.10.11 00:57:00 - [53] - Quote Summa Militum wrote: Eskel Bondfree wrote: If I understand correctly, the reason for the AR ROF bonus on Gallente assauts was that assault rifles in general underperformed. So now, the ARs are great on Gallente assaults, but they still underperform for everybody else except the GalAss. Working as intended? I don't get it. The only Assault Rifle that was underperforming was the Vanilla Assault Rifle; the RoF increase to Breach Assault Rifles was not needed. Also, you need to use weapons that compliment your suit for best results. If you are not skilled into Gallente Assault then don't run with the Assault Rifle. Lol that's bull brah. The vanilla AR was the most capable. The burst, tactical, and breach were much harder to use efficiently, with the breach being the best out of the three. "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." http://royventus.tumblr.com
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 12	Posted - 2015.10.11 01:40:00 - [54] - Quote Joel II X wrote: Question: What was the AR's drawback, except for range? Answer: Besides range? Hmm... Well, it has a decent magazine size as well as reserves. We can't tweak damage without it being OP. It doesn't have a great mechanic... Question: Okay. What if we took its strength to the next level? In other words, improve the CQC function? Perhaps RoF bonus? Answer: Sure, let's go with that. I say 2%. Proposed action: Loud and clear. I'll give you guys 5% bonus to AR RoF. Answer: LOLno. That's OP as shit. Lower it. Proposed action: 3%? Answer: Much better. That's the gist of it. I wanted that Bon Bon Machine Gun Sgt Kirk's Propaganda Youtube Channel
Ydubbs81 RND Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 4	Posted - 2015.10.11 01:55:00 - [55] - Quote Eskel Bondfree wrote: If I understand correctly, the reason for the AR ROF bonus on Gallente assauts was that assault rifles in general underperformed. So now, the ARs are great on Gallente assaults, but they still underperform for everybody else except the GalAss. Working as intended? I don't get it. Nah...reason for ROF bonus was to make gallente even more powerful than it already was. "Bring out mass drivers & jump around goddamit" Check RND out here
Vicious Minotaur 3	Posted - 2015.10.11 01:56:00 - [56] - Quote Not that anybody cares what a Minotaur has to say, but, the ROF bonus is the odd man out with regards to Assault bonuses: Minmatar gets magazine size increase: more sustainable firing. Amarr get heat: more sustainable firing. Caldari get recoil: more sustainable firing. Gallente get ROF increase: ...more... Uh direct increase in DPS... I was under the impression that classes were supposed to have bonuses that followed a pattern: that they were to be equivalent. Was I wrong? Or has that mindset been done away with? Viscous Minotaur Blood is more vicious than water.
BARAGAMOS Kinsho Swords Caldari State 296	Posted - 2015.10.11 02:03:00 - [57] - Quote Vicious Minotaur wrote: Not that anybody cares what a Minotaur has to say, but, the ROF bonus is the odd man out with regards to Assault bonuses: Minmatar gets magazine size increase: more sustainable firing. Amarr get heat: more sustainable firing. Caldari get recoil: more sustainable firing. Gallente get ROF increase: ...more... Uh direct increase in DPS... I was under the impression that classes were supposed to have bonuses that followed a pattern: that they were to be equivalent. Was I wrong? Or has that mindset been done away with? Got to agree.. I'll give up my reload and recoil bonus for a 15% ROF bonus on my rails any day. I also really was looking forward to having the AR be useful again, but now its still weak unless you run one suit, and then its a little too good.
CUSE TOWN333 Capital Acquisitions LLC 3	Posted - 2015.10.11 06:23:00 - [58] - Quote Vicious Minotaur wrote: Not that anybody cares what a Minotaur has to say, but, the ROF bonus is the odd man out with regards to Assault bonuses: Minmatar gets magazine size increase: more sustainable firing. Amarr get heat: more sustainable firing. Caldari get recoil: more sustainable firing. Gallente get ROF increase: ...more... Uh direct increase in DPS... I was under the impression that classes were supposed to have bonuses that followed a pattern: that they were to be equivalent. Was I wrong? Or has that mindset been done away with? yeah giveing one assault race a direct Dps buff is tard mode. It would be like if they gave my caldari heavy a buff that makes the HMg fire faster. I have been dropping gal assaults in my caldari assault all day in PC but dam the AR is hitting a little to hard. But that is the over nerf buff culture of dust every month. lol i will do what i do every time this happens get a respec pick up that OP stuff run around in pubs and proto stomp the **** out of new players in a gal assault until they cry nerf again. actions speak louder then words.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 27	Posted - 2015.10.11 06:54:00 - [59] - Quote Joel II X wrote: Question: What was the AR's drawback, except for range? Answer: Besides range? Hmm... Well, it has a decent magazine size as well as reserves. We can't tweak damage without it being OP. It doesn't have a great mechanic... Question: Okay. What if we took its strength to the next level? In other words, improve the CQC function? Perhaps RoF bonus? Answer: Sure, let's go with that. I say 2%. Proposed action: Loud and clear. I'll give you guys 5% bonus to AR RoF. Answer: LOLno. That's OP as shit. Lower it. Proposed action: 3%? Answer: Much better. That's the gist of it. spot on "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 27	Posted - 2015.10.11 06:56:00 - [60] - Quote Summa Militum wrote: Eskel Bondfree wrote: If I understand correctly, the reason for the AR ROF bonus on Gallente assauts was that assault rifles in general underperformed. So now, the ARs are great on Gallente assaults, but they still underperform for everybody else except the GalAss. Working as intended? I don't get it. The only Assault Rifle that was underperforming was the Vanilla Assault Rifle; the RoF increase to Breach Assault Rifles was not needed. Also, you need to use weapons that compliment your suit for best results. If you are not skilled into Gallente Assault then don't run with the Assault Rifle. I think I have told you before that you are wrong. The whole AR family is bottom of the class, by far. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"




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