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Someone explain the thinking behind the AR ROF bonus to me

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ReGnYuM Capital Acquisitions LLC 3	Posted - 2015.10.11 07:21:00 - [61] - Quote I've been playing Dust for a long time now and I can easily say the Gk.0 Assault + BAR is one of the scariest combo's to hit the game. Gal should be the King's of CQC and they're with the new bonus. However, I think the range efficiency on the BAR should be pulled back. If you want to dominate a a specific field of combat then sacrifices need to be made. Right now the sting of the Breach reaches too far.
Daemonn Adima Y.A.M.A.H 352	Posted - 2015.10.11 07:59:00 - [62] - Quote Been getting wrecked with RRs and ScRs on mixed racial suits. Can't wait to have the tables turned when I'm back from vacation tomorrow! Gallente loyalist for life!
StoneSmasher Drugga Corrosive Synergy 202	Posted - 2015.10.11 08:03:00 - [63] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: BARAGAMOS wrote: Frankly, the breach has been knocking my "new" shields off of me at ranges farther than my rail rifle now does damage to them. Not sure why an AR was supposed to be the better long range weapon........with damage mods and the DPS bonus however At 75m the kaalakiota Rail Rifle does 100% full damage at 397 DPS base damage, no damage mods, skills or anything. The Creodron Breach AR at 75 meters is at 33% efficacy and only does 174.99 DPS (against shields and Gal assault bonus I add) with the introduction of a damage mod you're doing about 206 DPS and with another damage mod you're doing 218 DPS. So, even against an Unskilled Kaalkiota Rail Rifle with no damage mods at Optimal Range (75m) you're doing 179 more DPS than a Creodron Breach AR with max Gallente Assault Skill and two damage mods outside it's optimal range of 39 meters at 75m. Now, there very well may be an issue with the breach ARs DPS around it's optimal but to say that the breach can contend with a Rail Rifle at it's range I feel is extreme hyperbole. And there is no evil greater than hyperbole. Sorry, couldn't resist. There is no evil greater than hyperbole.
Eskel Bondfree I want to be CEO 211	Posted - 2015.10.11 10:28:00 - [64] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Joel II X wrote: Question: What was the AR's drawback, except for range? Answer: Besides range? Hmm... Well, it has a decent magazine size as well as reserves. We can't tweak damage without it being OP. It doesn't have a great mechanic... Question: Okay. What if we took its strength to the next level? In other words, improve the CQC function? Perhaps RoF bonus? Answer: Sure, let's go with that. I say 2%. Proposed action: Loud and clear. I'll give you guys 5% bonus to AR RoF. Answer: LOLno. That's OP as shit. Lower it. Proposed action: 3%? Answer: Much better. That's the gist of it. spot on I'm with you so far. But I still don't understand the part where you apply this fix to only 1 out of 32 drop suits in the game, and not to the AR as a weapon. Correct me if I'm wrong, Rattati, but this is what I understood: Pre FoxFour, GalAss using an AR and its underwhelming bonus didn't really hold up to a GalAss using any other rifle with no bonus. If this was true, then by extension it was also true for any other suit in the game: CalLogi with AR doesn't hold up to CalLogi with any other rifle, AmScout with AR doesn't hold up to AmScout with any other rifle, basic medium with AR doesn't hold up to basic medium with any other rifle... I mean, just because I don't play assault doesn't mean I don't care about the balancing of the weapon I use. In my opinion, that situation should have been fixed by giving a small ROF bonus to all ARs, and then giving another small ROF bonus to the GalAss so it would come out where it is today (rather than giving the whole ROF bonus to the GalAss only).
The KTM Duke You Got Killed By a Guy With Framerate Drops 961	Posted - 2015.10.11 10:35:00 - [65] - Quote Eskel Bondfree wrote: If I understand correctly, the reason for the AR ROF bonus on Gallente assauts was that assault rifles in general underperformed. So now, the ARs are great on Gallente assaults, but they still underperform for everybody else except the GalAss. Working as intended? I don't get it. I was using ARs before the update and i cant say they were bad, they were underperfomed compared to others assaults with racial bonus. Gal ass + ARR was FOTM cuz rail rifles were better than assaults rifles at range and at cqc, now gallente assault is "god" in cqc as it was supposed to be // H0riz0n Unlimit // FOTM Gallente Assault since 28/7/2013. Regressed to Pubstar level
D4GG3R S.K.I.L.L OF G.O.D 2	Posted - 2015.10.11 11:16:00 - [66] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Summa Militum wrote: Eskel Bondfree wrote: If I understand correctly, the reason for the AR ROF bonus on Gallente assauts was that assault rifles in general underperformed. So now, the ARs are great on Gallente assaults, but they still underperform for everybody else except the GalAss. Working as intended? I don't get it. The only Assault Rifle that was underperforming was the Vanilla Assault Rifle; the RoF increase to Breach Assault Rifles was not needed. Also, you need to use weapons that compliment your suit for best results. If you are not skilled into Gallente Assault then don't run with the Assault Rifle. I think I have told you before that you are wrong. The whole AR family is bottom of the class, by far. Go use a breach AR right now. There is a reason just about every PC player I know is using a breach AR. It is leaps and bounds ahead of just about every weapon in its category now, it was competitive even before the hotfix. Vanilla AR was the only one under performing. "Dagger is like a mage, damage him enough and he runs." -Nega Matix I watch anime for the boobs
D4GG3R S.K.I.L.L OF G.O.D 2	Posted - 2015.10.11 11:17:00 - [67] - Quote The KTM Duke wrote: Eskel Bondfree wrote: If I understand correctly, the reason for the AR ROF bonus on Gallente assauts was that assault rifles in general underperformed. So now, the ARs are great on Gallente assaults, but they still underperform for everybody else except the GalAss. Working as intended? I don't get it. I was using ARs before the update and i cant say they were bad, they were underperfomed compared to others assaults with racial bonus. Gal ass + ARR was FOTM cuz rail rifles were better than assaults rifles at range and at cqc, now gallente assault is "god" in cqc as it was supposed to be KT, that breach AR fires too fast and you know it. "Dagger is like a mage, damage him enough and he runs." -Nega Matix I watch anime for the boobs
The KTM Duke You Got Killed By a Guy With Framerate Drops 961	Posted - 2015.10.11 11:50:00 - [68] - Quote D4GG3R wrote: The KTM Duke wrote: Eskel Bondfree wrote: If I understand correctly, the reason for the AR ROF bonus on Gallente assauts was that assault rifles in general underperformed. So now, the ARs are great on Gallente assaults, but they still underperform for everybody else except the GalAss. Working as intended? I don't get it. I was using ARs before the update and i cant say they were bad, they were underperfomed compared to others assaults with racial bonus. Gal ass + ARR was FOTM cuz rail rifles were better than assaults rifles at range and at cqc, now gallente assault is "god" in cqc as it was supposed to be KT, that breach AR fires too fast and you know it. Till you try to kill a gal ass with a min ass with Sg at 15 metres yes, if you get spotted you get rekt, dont tell me cal assault shield recharge isnt op though...no one can anymore adapt or die, just QQ // H0riz0n Unlimit // FOTM Gallente Assault since 28/7/2013. Regressed to Pubstar level
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 2	Posted - 2015.10.11 12:53:00 - [69] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: From what I've seen (not talking about in-game) this isn't entirely correct. The AR family sees (saw) the least use out of the entire rifle line-up with the Burst and Tactical being the most under-used rifles in the game. Burst/Tac numbers were so low that they barely even registered on the chart. this is why use stats should not be used as base for balance. the TAR is a SCR with no overheat, slightly less range but more DPS. it actually is one of the best weapons in the game.
Dont-be-a-D1CK Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic 254	Posted - 2015.10.11 14:00:00 - [70] - Quote Despite it's flaws.. you should consider that the AR is the most reliable rifle in-game. With decent clip size, RoF and most importantly accuracy it only underperforms in fights it should not be in (long range) bar maybe the Assault Combat Rifle (spray and pray FTW) the Assault Rifles are the most consistent light weapon. So in practice that means the AR is most likely to apply all of it's DPS as it is quite accurate and easy to use, where the ScR+RR have clear drawbacks, the AR+CR lack these (bar range) so this may not be considered very important, but balancing them should take into acount the weapons practical use and for that AR+CR do pretty well. I shield tank, so results may vary.. I died to AR's before the hotfix, I die to them more since the hotfix.. the 2 biggest issues here are - no new content (so bored players check out FOTM) - scrubass KD tryhards (just luurrrvvee new crutches) Just please, while players may enjoy their latest crutch.. don't wait too long to make needed changes CCP!!! (Unsure what should be changed, will leave that to the QQ I want my AR to be good crowd) My view on it, is the most consistent rifle in Dust, did not need a buff.. Others should have been tweaked to remove their advantage over over it, but this is how the buff/nerf cycle goes, I can picture Rattati struggling to swim in a pool of tears Well that was a surprise.

CUSE TOWN333 Capital Acquisitions LLC 3	Posted - 2015.10.11 15:42:00 - [71] - Quote In theory all these changes sound good on paper. In reality in game its cheesey as all ways. The way dust works when you fight to win CQC weapons pretty much dominate with the way the objective structures are designed. Its the reason the shotgun, hmg, and AR have all ways been hard to balance. Good players know how to position themselves to get in CQC range. Even on the bridge map in PC lastnight in order to get to the outside letters you must put yourself in a CQC situation. Vets will know in order to win= i should use this OP combo. Its the reason people have been crying about heavys with Hmgs and assaults with shotguns for so long. Make something to strong in CQC and trust me it will git spamed to death until we realize the game got way to cheesey again. Your balance culture is flawed. Im shocked this was allowed to happen as the new CPMs are very knowledgeable ingame players. actions speak louder then words.
Aeon Amadi 12	Posted - 2015.10.11 15:58:00 - [72] - Quote D4GG3R wrote: Go use a breach AR right now. There is a reason just about every PC player I know is using a breach AR. It is leaps and bounds ahead of just about every weapon in its category now, it was competitive even before the hotfix. Vanilla AR was the only one under performing. Interesting how the meta shifted within 72 hours and you can safely assume that every PC player is suddenly using the same exact weapon. Curious as to what sort of data-collection you have going on, we may need to get in on that for our own observations Jack McReady wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: From what I've seen (not talking about in-game) this isn't entirely correct. The AR family sees (saw) the least use out of the entire rifle line-up with the Burst and Tactical being the most under-used rifles in the game. Burst/Tac numbers were so low that they barely even registered on the chart. this is why use stats should not be used as base for balance. the TAR is a SCR with no overheat, slightly less range but more DPS. it actually is one of the best weapons in the game. Probably a good thing usage stats aren't the only thing that gets looked at then, huh? =P Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog Skype: nomistrav
Mr.Pepe Le Pew Art.of.Death 296	Posted - 2015.10.11 16:01:00 - [73] - Quote Summa Militum wrote: Lightning35 Delta514 wrote: Yes. It is working as intended. They are now effective on galassaults. The same way scramblers where very effective on Amarr because of heat, the same way you have better control with rail rifles on caldari, and the same way you can spam with minmatar. It encourages racial fits. The Breach Assault Rifle should not have received the RoF bonus. Why not? Because you can actually kill with it now? before the buff, the AR would be outperformed by the following light and sidearm weapons: -Rail rifle -Assault Rail rifle -Combat rifle -Assault Combat -Scrambler rifle -Assault Scrambler rifle -Laser rifle (at a distance) -mass driver sidearms: -Bolt pistol -smg -ion pistol Anyone throwing a fit about the new gal assault bonus needs to check themselves. The Assault RR is still beast, and if you use it against a gal assault wielding an AR, now the terms come down to skill, not weaponry used. CEO / Art.of.Death
Mr.Pepe Le Pew Art.of.Death 296	Posted - 2015.10.11 16:13:00 - [74] - Quote CUSE TOWN333 wrote: In theory all these changes sound good on paper. In reality in game its cheesey as all ways. The way dust works when you fight to win CQC weapons pretty much dominate with the way the objective structures are designed. Its the reason the shotgun, hmg, and AR have all ways been hard to balance. Good players know how to position themselves to get in CQC range. Even on the bridge map in PC lastnight in order to get to the outside letters you must put yourself in a CQC situation. Vets will know in order to win= i should use this OP combo. Its the reason people have been crying about heavys with Hmgs and assaults with shotguns for so long. Make something to strong in CQC and trust me it will git spamed to death until we realize the game got way to cheesey again. Your balance culture is flawed. Im shocked this was allowed to happen as the new CPMs are very knowledgeable ingame players. Your position is contradictory to itself. If I understood correctly, your first few statements explain how CQC weapons are the weapons used to win. And I quote, "The way dust works when you fight to win CQC weapons pretty much dominate with the way the objective structures are designed." However you go on to explain how a good player will position himself and create a combo that best works for him. So which is it? the CQC weapon? the combo? the positioning? If your answer is all three, then I agree with you. Hence the contradiction to your first premise that the AR buff makes the game cheesy because its the only weapon and combo you can use in the game to be a cqc king. May I remind you that you also mentioned the shotgun, heavies with HMG's. The AR is competitive now. And smart players witll understand how to counter a Gal Assault with an AR. The game is about tactics, counters. So now, the AR on Gal assault gives the player base a new tactic, a new puzzle to solve. Anyone too lazy to find a counter, is well...another kill on my killfeed. :) CEO / Art.of.Death
JIMvc2 KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 1	Posted - 2015.10.11 16:13:00 - [75] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: I've been playing Dust for a long time now and I can easily say the Gk.0 Assault + BAR is one of the scariest combo's to hit the game. Gal should be the King's of CQC and they're with the new bonus. However, I think the range efficiency on the BAR should be pulled back. If you want to dominate a a specific field of combat then sacrifices need to be made. Right now the sting of the Breach reaches too far. NO. No one will nerf my Breach Assault Rifle. Nope no sacrifices should be made = propaganda is what you are hearing. Judge my muscle content then I'll judge you by your Half Marathon time. Never underestimate runners - "Jim"
JIMvc2 KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 1	Posted - 2015.10.11 16:19:00 - [76] - Quote D4GG3R wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Summa Militum wrote: Eskel Bondfree wrote: If I understand correctly, the reason for the AR ROF bonus on Gallente assauts was that assault rifles in general underperformed. So now, the ARs are great on Gallente assaults, but they still underperform for everybody else except the GalAss. Working as intended? I don't get it. The only Assault Rifle that was underperforming was the Vanilla Assault Rifle; the RoF increase to Breach Assault Rifles was not needed. Also, you need to use weapons that compliment your suit for best results. If you are not skilled into Gallente Assault then don't run with the Assault Rifle. I think I have told you before that you are wrong. The whole AR family is bottom of the class, by far. Go use a breach AR right now. There is a reason just about every PC player I know is using a breach AR. It is leaps and bounds ahead of just about every weapon in its category now, it was competitive even before the hotfix. Vanilla AR was the only one under performing. ^ Now you are complaining that the breach assault rifle is being used in PC? LOLOLOL funny xD FFS the stupid Rail Rifle and Combat Rifle have been dominating since 1.7 uprising arrived. Can't wait to destroy you with the Creo Drone Breach Assault Rifle. Dem minmatars can't over run it nor hide >:) Judge my muscle content then I'll judge you by your Half Marathon time. Never underestimate runners - "Jim"
Mr.Pepe Le Pew Art.of.Death 296	Posted - 2015.10.11 16:24:00 - [77] - Quote All of these tears about the AR means CCP is doing something right. lmao!!! and now a poem to all the tear filled faces: tear here....tear there...oh the AR has killed me there... tear here...tear there...I now have to think how to counter them... tear tear tear...the AR shoots way too fast tear tear tear...I'm gonna blame CCP cause I can't pad my stats tear here...tear there...oh mama come help me I'm dead!!! BAHAHAHAHAHA quit crying. Everyone sounds like a little tool used for gardening that is also a synonym to a prostitute and rhymes with Santa's laugh... XD CEO / Art.of.Death
Aeon Amadi 12	Posted - 2015.10.11 16:28:00 - [78] - Quote JIMvc2 wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: I've been playing Dust for a long time now and I can easily say the Gk.0 Assault + BAR is one of the scariest combo's to hit the game. Gal should be the King's of CQC and they're with the new bonus. However, I think the range efficiency on the BAR should be pulled back. If you want to dominate a a specific field of combat then sacrifices need to be made. Right now the sting of the Breach reaches too far. NO. No one will nerf my Breach Assault Rifle. Nope no sacrifices should be made = propaganda is what you are hearing. Breach AR is a weird weapon by design. Legacy design philosophy states that the breach variants were to emulate Rail Rifles, so it should theoretically have the longest range in the AR family. But, being part of the AR family, it is supposed to have high damage. Newer design philosophy states that the longer the range on a weapon the less damage it should do, and thusly we have a contradiction in how to balance the weapon. Do we give it more range and lower the damage? Do we give it more damage and lower the range? Right now, the Breach AR is functionally and effectively just an AR. Duvolle AR has 453.33 DPS, base, and the CreoDron Breach AR has 457.14 DPS, base. So for a difference of about 4dps, you really have to wonder where the power comes from. It's hit detection, mostly. Lower RoF weapons have better hit detection overall. We see this with the Breach SMG and Assault HMGs, respectively. But even despite this advantage to the weapon, it still (at least up until FoxFour) remained one of the less used/efficient weapons when compared to competitors like the SCR, ARR, and ACR. In fact it was the third least used/efficient rifles in the line up, following the Tactical and Burst ARs. And fun fact, the next rifle on the list for use/efficiency? The Vanilla AR =P So out of all racial rifles and their variations, literally every AR variant was the least used/efficient. But an overall blanket buff to the weapons themselves might have sent them very quickly into being OP, so the conclusion was to kill two birds with one stone by soft-buffing the weapon through the Gallente Assault which didn't have a very good bonus. Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog Skype: nomistrav
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 6	Posted - 2015.10.11 16:34:00 - [79] - Quote Eskel Bondfree wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Joel II X wrote: Question: What was the AR's drawback, except for range? Answer: Besides range? Hmm... Well, it has a decent magazine size as well as reserves. We can't tweak damage without it being OP. It doesn't have a great mechanic... Question: Okay. What if we took its strength to the next level? In other words, improve the CQC function? Perhaps RoF bonus? Answer: Sure, let's go with that. I say 2%. Proposed action: Loud and clear. I'll give you guys 5% bonus to AR RoF. Answer: LOLno. That's OP as shit. Lower it. Proposed action: 3%? Answer: Much better. That's the gist of it. spot on I'm with you so far. But I still don't understand the part where you apply this fix to only 1 out of 32 drop suits in the game, and not to the AR as a weapon. Correct me if I'm wrong, Rattati, but this is what I understood: Pre FoxFour, GalAss using an AR and its underwhelming bonus didn't really hold up to a GalAss using any other rifle with no bonus. If this was true, then by extension it was also true for any other suit in the game: CalLogi with AR doesn't hold up to CalLogi with any other rifle, AmScout with AR doesn't hold up to AmScout with any other rifle, basic medium with AR doesn't hold up to basic medium with any other rifle... I mean, just because I don't play assault doesn't mean I don't care about the balancing of the weapon I use. In my opinion, that situation should have been fixed by giving a small ROF bonus to all ARs, and then giving another small ROF bonus to the GalAss so it would come out where it is today (rather than giving the whole ROF bonus to the GalAss only). Im going to have to agree on this one. The AR in a Non-Gal assault is still performing below what it should have. I think a +5% RoF bonus to the base weapon and then a +10% RoF bonus for the Gal Assault would have been a more appropriate action if indeed the RoF is the direction the developers wanted to take the weapon. "That little sh*t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati
Aeon Amadi 12	Posted - 2015.10.11 16:52:00 - [80] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Eskel Bondfree wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Joel II X wrote: Question: What was the AR's drawback, except for range? Answer: Besides range? Hmm... Well, it has a decent magazine size as well as reserves. We can't tweak damage without it being OP. It doesn't have a great mechanic... Question: Okay. What if we took its strength to the next level? In other words, improve the CQC function? Perhaps RoF bonus? Answer: Sure, let's go with that. I say 2%. Proposed action: Loud and clear. I'll give you guys 5% bonus to AR RoF. Answer: LOLno. That's OP as shit. Lower it. Proposed action: 3%? Answer: Much better. That's the gist of it. spot on I'm with you so far. But I still don't understand the part where you apply this fix to only 1 out of 32 drop suits in the game, and not to the AR as a weapon. Correct me if I'm wrong, Rattati, but this is what I understood: Pre FoxFour, GalAss using an AR and its underwhelming bonus didn't really hold up to a GalAss using any other rifle with no bonus. If this was true, then by extension it was also true for any other suit in the game: CalLogi with AR doesn't hold up to CalLogi with any other rifle, AmScout with AR doesn't hold up to AmScout with any other rifle, basic medium with AR doesn't hold up to basic medium with any other rifle... I mean, just because I don't play assault doesn't mean I don't care about the balancing of the weapon I use. In my opinion, that situation should have been fixed by giving a small ROF bonus to all ARs, and then giving another small ROF bonus to the GalAss so it would come out where it is today (rather than giving the whole ROF bonus to the GalAss only). Im going to have to agree on this one. The AR in a Non-Gal assault is still performing below what it should have. I think a +5% RoF bonus to the base weapon and then a +10% RoF bonus for the Gal Assault would have been a more appropriate action if indeed the RoF is the direction the developers wanted to take the weapon. Was thinking this as well. Will write down a note of it if it is necessary post FoxFour (I.E, if ARs are considering only viable on Gal Assaults) Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog Skype: nomistrav

Eskel Bondfree I want to be CEO 211	Posted - 2015.10.11 17:05:00 - [81] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Eskel Bondfree wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Joel II X wrote: Question: What was the AR's drawback, except for range? Answer: Besides range? Hmm... Well, it has a decent magazine size as well as reserves. We can't tweak damage without it being OP. It doesn't have a great mechanic... Question: Okay. What if we took its strength to the next level? In other words, improve the CQC function? Perhaps RoF bonus? Answer: Sure, let's go with that. I say 2%. Proposed action: Loud and clear. I'll give you guys 5% bonus to AR RoF. Answer: LOLno. That's OP as shit. Lower it. Proposed action: 3%? Answer: Much better. That's the gist of it. spot on I'm with you so far. But I still don't understand the part where you apply this fix to only 1 out of 32 drop suits in the game, and not to the AR as a weapon. Correct me if I'm wrong, Rattati, but this is what I understood: Pre FoxFour, GalAss using an AR and its underwhelming bonus didn't really hold up to a GalAss using any other rifle with no bonus. If this was true, then by extension it was also true for any other suit in the game: CalLogi with AR doesn't hold up to CalLogi with any other rifle, AmScout with AR doesn't hold up to AmScout with any other rifle, basic medium with AR doesn't hold up to basic medium with any other rifle... I mean, just because I don't play assault doesn't mean I don't care about the balancing of the weapon I use. In my opinion, that situation should have been fixed by giving a small ROF bonus to all ARs, and then giving another small ROF bonus to the GalAss so it would come out where it is today (rather than giving the whole ROF bonus to the GalAss only). Im going to have to agree on this one. The AR in a Non-Gal assault is still performing below what it should have. I think a +5% RoF bonus to the base weapon and then a +10% RoF bonus for the Gal Assault would have been a more appropriate action if indeed the RoF is the direction the developers wanted to take the weapon. Was thinking this as well. Will write down a note of it if it is necessary post FoxFour (I.E, if ARs are considering only viable on Gal Assaults) Glad to hear that.
CUSE TOWN333 Capital Acquisitions LLC 3	Posted - 2015.10.11 18:12:00 - [82] - Quote Mr.Pepe Le Pew wrote: CUSE TOWN333 wrote: In theory all these changes sound good on paper. In reality in game its cheesey as all ways. The way dust works when you fight to win CQC weapons pretty much dominate with the way the objective structures are designed. Its the reason the shotgun, hmg, and AR have all ways been hard to balance. Good players know how to position themselves to get in CQC range. Even on the bridge map in PC lastnight in order to get to the outside letters you must put yourself in a CQC situation. Vets will know in order to win= i should use this OP combo. Its the reason people have been crying about heavys with Hmgs and assaults with shotguns for so long. Make something to strong in CQC and trust me it will git spamed to death until we realize the game got way to cheesey again. Your balance culture is flawed. Im shocked this was allowed to happen as the new CPMs are very knowledgeable ingame players. Your position is contradictory to itself. If I understood correctly, your first few statements explain how CQC weapons are the weapons used to win. And I quote, "The way dust works when you fight to win CQC weapons pretty much dominate with the way the objective structures are designed." However you go on to explain how a good player will position himself and create a combo that best works for him. So which is it? the CQC weapon? the combo? the positioning? If your answer is all three, then I agree with you. Hence the contradiction to your first premise that the AR buff makes the game cheesy because its the only weapon and combo you can use in the game to be a cqc king. May I remind you that you also mentioned the shotgun, heavies with HMG's. The AR is competitive now. And smart players witll understand how to counter a Gal Assault with an AR. The game is about tactics, counters. So now, the AR on Gal assault gives the player base a new tactic, a new puzzle to solve. Anyone too lazy to find a counter, is well...another kill on my killfeed. :) what you will find is the counter is to get a respec and use the same weapon and suit that is OP. That makes 90% of a PC team all use the same gun and suit hence the cheese mode. Trust me we tryed it lastnight whole team gal assaults with AR it was down right rude. Yes good players will use positioning and tactics to get in range to maximize the OP CQC weapon canceling its only drawback. And the map structures dictate in order to take and hold a letter you will most likely be in a CQC situation. What did you not understand? actions speak louder then words.
CUSE TOWN333 Capital Acquisitions LLC 3	Posted - 2015.10.11 18:18:00 - [83] - Quote So if the HMG has a big range disadvantage and the mobility of a slow heavy. And the shotgun has a huge range disadvantage. Then one can come to the conclusion that the gal assault with a AR would be the best overall option. Dust should never work like that. actions speak louder then words.
Mr.Pepe Le Pew Art.of.Death 299	Posted - 2015.10.11 18:34:00 - [84] - Quote CUSE TOWN333 wrote: Mr.Pepe Le Pew wrote: CUSE TOWN333 wrote: In theory all these changes sound good on paper. In reality in game its cheesey as all ways. The way dust works when you fight to win CQC weapons pretty much dominate with the way the objective structures are designed. Its the reason the shotgun, hmg, and AR have all ways been hard to balance. Good players know how to position themselves to get in CQC range. Even on the bridge map in PC lastnight in order to get to the outside letters you must put yourself in a CQC situation. Vets will know in order to win= i should use this OP combo. Its the reason people have been crying about heavys with Hmgs and assaults with shotguns for so long. Make something to strong in CQC and trust me it will git spamed to death until we realize the game got way to cheesey again. Your balance culture is flawed. Im shocked this was allowed to happen as the new CPMs are very knowledgeable ingame players. Your position is contradictory to itself. If I understood correctly, your first few statements explain how CQC weapons are the weapons used to win. And I quote, "The way dust works when you fight to win CQC weapons pretty much dominate with the way the objective structures are designed." However you go on to explain how a good player will position himself and create a combo that best works for him. So which is it? the CQC weapon? the combo? the positioning? If your answer is all three, then I agree with you. Hence the contradiction to your first premise that the AR buff makes the game cheesy because its the only weapon and combo you can use in the game to be a cqc king. May I remind you that you also mentioned the shotgun, heavies with HMG's. The AR is competitive now. And smart players witll understand how to counter a Gal Assault with an AR. The game is about tactics, counters. So now, the AR on Gal assault gives the player base a new tactic, a new puzzle to solve. Anyone too lazy to find a counter, is well...another kill on my killfeed. :) what you will find is the counter is to get a respec and use the same weapon and suit that is OP. That makes 90% of a PC team all use the same gun and suit hence the cheese mode. Trust me we tryed it lastnight whole team gal assaults with AR it was down right rude. Yes good players will use positioning and tactics to get in range to maximize the OP CQC weapon canceling its only drawback. And the map structures dictate in order to take and hold a letter you will most likely be in a CQC situation. What did you not understand? I never said I didn't understand. I said your statement is a contradiction. If you get a PC team and run nothing but super fast Min Assaults with shotties, then you'll get the same result. OP. If you get a bunch of sneaky cloak scouts, same thing. Your example of running a PC team full of Gal Assaults is a poor example to show how OP the Gal assault bonus with AR is. Even if the maps dictate the use of CQC weapons, you have remember that the AR is not the ONLY viable CQC weapon. Long distance weapons like the RR and ScR with a freaking charge shot are great options for CQC. Hence the problem with your view that AR is OP because it's usable and viable weapon now. A counter to the Gal assault is get a distance weapon. Get a laser, RR, ARR, ScR, and shoot at a distance. Get a damped shottie and shoot them in the back. Your idea of a respect to counter is the lazy way out. CEO / Art.of.Death
Aeon Amadi 12	Posted - 2015.10.11 21:21:00 - [85] - Quote CUSE TOWN333 wrote: So if the HMG has a big range disadvantage and the mobility of a slow heavy. And the shotgun has a huge range disadvantage. Then one can come to the conclusion that the gal assault with a AR would be the best overall option. Dust should never work like that. Kind of over-simplifying things. Yes, the HMG may have taken a hit and it was something the CPM was talking about before the hotfix even deployed. The shotgun, on the other hand, has always been an extremely high alpha weapon that requires a specific range. Even when HMGs were over-performing back in 1.8, shotguns were doing just fine. But even still, the most used HMG at the moment is the AHMG, which lacks a lot of the range implications the HMG has. Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog Skype: nomistrav
CUSE TOWN333 Capital Acquisitions LLC 3	Posted - 2015.10.11 21:25:00 - [86] - Quote Your idea of getting a lazor rifle and sitting far away from a objective farming kills but never attacking and takeing said objective explains why your corp never wins a PC. but seriously how do you not understand that a gal assault is kind of the perfect option to have success in battle. Im just trolling and throwing my perspective out there i Don't care or want them to nerf it. But giveing a direct DPS buff to one suit seems the lazyist haphazard attempt at balance i have seen to date on dust. actions speak louder then words.
Ardos 130297 Prima Gallicus 64	Posted - 2015.10.11 21:29:00 - [87] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: CUSE TOWN333 wrote: So if the HMG has a big range disadvantage and the mobility of a slow heavy. And the shotgun has a huge range disadvantage. Then one can come to the conclusion that the gal assault with a AR would be the best overall option. Dust should never work like that. Kind of over-simplifying things. Yes, the HMG may have taken a hit and it was something the CPM was talking about before the hotfix even deployed. The shotgun, on the other hand, has always been an extremely high alpha weapon that requires a specific range. Even when HMGs were over-performing back in 1.8, shotguns were doing just fine. But even still, the most used HMG at the moment is the AHMG, which lacks a lot of the range implications the HMG has. It's strange, because I play with AHMG sometimes, but I don't know why every guys play it in CQC. I don't like this AHMG in CQC, the vanilla HMG is very good. You've got the versatility (kill infantry at mid range and destroy vehicle at short range) but isn't the best at short range. You do not win a war by making what is just... You win it by making what is necessary... Veteran Closed Beta
CUSE TOWN333 Capital Acquisitions LLC 3	Posted - 2015.10.11 21:32:00 - [88] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: CUSE TOWN333 wrote: So if the HMG has a big range disadvantage and the mobility of a slow heavy. And the shotgun has a huge range disadvantage. Then one can come to the conclusion that the gal assault with a AR would be the best overall option. Dust should never work like that. Kind of over-simplifying things. Yes, the HMG may have taken a hit and it was something the CPM was talking about before the hotfix even deployed. The shotgun, on the other hand, has always been an extremely high alpha weapon that requires a specific range. Even when HMGs were over-performing back in 1.8, shotguns were doing just fine. But even still, the most used HMG at the moment is the AHMG, which lacks a lot of the range implications the HMG has. the way i see it and ill also use Sgt Kirks perspective because we are gal assault and AR loyalist and used to talk about it a lot. Yes lore of the plazma rifle says it should be a powerful CQC weapon. But in playing the game it seems like a bad idea to buff it in this manner. I never said anything when they nerfed the crap out of my heavy and HMG but a rifle that has rifle range should never have that much CQC power regardless of race, lore, or whatever. actions speak louder then words.
Mr.Pepe Le Pew Art.of.Death 300	Posted - 2015.10.11 22:49:00 - [89] - Quote CUSE TOWN333 wrote: Your idea of getting a lazor rifle and sitting far away from a objective farming kills but never attacking and takeing said objective explains why your corp never wins a PC. but seriously how do you not understand that a gal assault is kind of the perfect option to have success in battle. Im just trolling and throwing my perspective out there i Don't care or want them to nerf it. But giveing a direct DPS buff to one suit seems the lazyist haphazard attempt at balance i have seen to date on dust. Last time I checked, we sold our districts months ago. PC is one of the most flawed game modes in Dust. Mainly because of LAG. Also, I don't remember losing very often. Ask FA when we cloned them out or EB when they lost 3 out of 4 in a row, or Death Card, Pendejitos or all the others that tried to take our district but failed. We lost a few, but we won most. Your attempt at jabbing at us and straying away from the conversation just shows that you can't debate well. Also, in my post I mentioned multiple counterattacks including shotties and ScR ARR which are still really really good at CQC. To cry and moan about the Gal Assault bonus and to say you don't want it nerfed cause you are just trolling is well....trolling. So I salute your solid trolling game. lmao o7 CEO / Art.of.Death
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 51	Posted - 2015.10.11 22:55:00 - [90] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Well for one the person you're responding to isn't too familiar with the lore in this case. Don't let that confuse you. Game design and lore can go hand to hand. It's just some people quite frankly have no idea about the lore. For one, we don't put any lore aspects in game at all besides the descriptions. I know plenty about the lore of EvE! Just because races have been forced to use each other's weapons in the past doesn't make using everyone else's weapons part of the lore of EvE. There are still racial restrictions, and they certainly are part of the game, as evidenced by the bonuses on appropriate suits. You may wish there weren't but it's a part of the EvE universe that actually makes it fun, getting around the racial restrictions. Or for people like me, proving that you can outclass all the FoTM players by sticking to training one race. It's a harder road, thanks to people who do succeed in getting these racial restrictions at least eased if not completely removed. You don't have to like the racial restrictions and feel free to try to deny they exist all you like, but they aren't going away from the EvE universe, even if you get them removed from Dust.



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