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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
3064
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Posted - 2012.07.05 10:49:00 -
[151] - Quote
Cloak should not work when standing still, but should require constant movement for effectiveness. The faster you're moving, the more invisible you are, and the slower you're moving, the more visible you become; this is to prevent abuse by campers.
Cloak should have a time limit of like 10 seconds, and have a cooldown of 20 seconds.
Cloak should disable after the user get a kill. Cloak should not be for getting lots of kills while undetected, but should be for sneaking past the combat.
Cloak module should be easily fitted in a logistics dropsuit with a drop uplink; sneaking past enemies to plant a spawn points would be one of the most practical applications for a cloaking module in a team-based game. |
dust badger
BetaMax.
283
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 10:54:00 -
[152] - Quote
not sure if this has been mentioned but another thing we could have is a covert ops drop up link like the covert cyno in eve
would put a stop to spawn camping |
Dalse Brinium
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.07.05 12:58:00 -
[153] - Quote
I think the Cloaked dropsuit should only be able to use support modules perhaps...
Think target painters (once enemy is target painted his sig radius balloons and all of your team can see his little arrow)
Perhaps include it in the Logistics suits, said logistics personnel would be required to decloak to heal. But could then cloak back up and move onto the next team mate in need of help.
Just my ideas for cloak implementation in DUST |
Traynor Youngs
Royal Uhlans
Amarr Empire
287
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 13:40:00 -
[154] - Quote
Cloak should take an equipment slot, so you would have to sacrifice some utility to use it, and you would have to switch to it and activate it and then switch back to a weapon before use.
Should have a ripple effect while there is relative motion, so stationary observer will not see stationary cloak, but if you run right by a cloaked guy, you should see some distortion.
Should work off of stamina, so sprinting while cloaked should not last long. Not doing other sprint things while cloaked and your stamina should last longer than it would while just sprinting (about .5x the drain rate of sprinting).
Doing ANYTHING active should break your cloak, this includes shooting, hacking, throwing a greened, planting explosives, etc. This way you CAN ambush someone by shooting them, but you are immediately declaoked and have to wait the cool down before recloaking (like 10 seconds I would think would be enough)
The only things that don't break stealth are movement, running and jumping.
Any damage at all breaks stealth.
Vehicle stealth should be similar, but should be a module that must be activated and has a cool down. So a HAV can set up an ambush if they have good intel on enemy units, but they cannot sit cloaked all day. Any shooting from any turret breaks stealth, any passenger embarking or debarking breaks stealth.
Could have a special Covert Dropship that is able to use a cloak for slightly longer, and passengers can jump out without deactivating the cloak. ANy shooting will deactivate the cloak though. Damage will deactivate the cloak. |
Bobphilsfred
16
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Posted - 2012.07.05 14:41:00 -
[155] - Quote
What if cloak simply reduced the distance you were seen at? Say for example you ran across a road to get an objective and a heavy on a building glances over, he wouldn't be able to see. However if that same heavy is strolling along and you sprint by a meter in front of him he's going to blow you away. Things such as movement speed, strength of the cloak, suit used ( scout's are better at cloaking then heavies ), shooting (gun matters, swarm launchers would disrupt it more then a smg or pistol) and if the other dropsuit had an active scanner would all effect the distance at which you could be seen. This way cloaks can be used to move around the battlefield stealthily ( as long as you don't get to close ) but attempting to sit in a corner waiting for people to walk by wouldn't work because they'd be to close for the cloak to work. Lore wise it can be explained by saying the suits have cloak scanners/detectors that had a limited range, and weaker cloaks could be spotted from further away. |
Zev Caldari
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
94
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Posted - 2012.07.05 15:33:00 -
[156] - Quote
I was under the impression that only the RDV and the Scout Suit were going to be cloaking for the time being, this could well be my own errant assumption.
If this is not what's planned, I personally think that'd be a good way to broach the issue. I'm also all for the "standard" FPS cloak shimmer when moving. When standing completely still I think a cloak should be incredibly difficult to spot from distance, or even in close range if the opponent isn't observant. |
Fat Axel
Sanmatar Kelkoons
Minmatar Republic
21
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Posted - 2012.07.05 17:24:00 -
[157] - Quote
i think the game would be fine with camo and no icons for vehicle stealth but just no icons for drop suits, or even beter an equipment that jams enemy sensors for u and ppl near u so u dont apear on map or as enemies unless they aim at u
edit.. while im at it why not a skill that decreases the range in wich u can be scaned |
Traynor Youngs
Royal Uhlans
Amarr Empire
287
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 17:28:00 -
[158] - Quote
Fat Axel wrote:
edit.. while im at it why not a skill that decreases the range in wich u can be scaned
Like drop suit command?
Thats already in there. |
Fat Axel
Sanmatar Kelkoons
Minmatar Republic
21
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Posted - 2012.07.05 18:11:00 -
[159] - Quote
Traynor Youngs wrote:Fat Axel wrote:
edit.. while im at it why not a skill that decreases the range in wich u can be scaned
Like drop suit command? Thats already in there.
i did not know it did that, does it say that anywhere? |
Traynor Youngs
Royal Uhlans
Amarr Empire
287
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 18:13:00 -
[160] - Quote
Fat Axel wrote:Traynor Youngs wrote:Fat Axel wrote:
edit.. while im at it why not a skill that decreases the range in wich u can be scaned
Like drop suit command? Thats already in there. i did not know it did that, does it say that anywhere?
Read the skill description. |
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RolyatDerTeufel
D3ath D3alers
RISE of LEGION
1648
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Posted - 2012.07.05 23:53:00 -
[161] - Quote
Traynor Youngs wrote:Fat Axel wrote:Traynor Youngs wrote:Fat Axel wrote:
edit.. while im at it why not a skill that decreases the range in wich u can be scaned
Like drop suit command? Thats already in there. i did not know it did that, does it say that anywhere? Read the skill description.
I think lvl 5 would be prereq to cloaking, but you'd also need the cloaking skill to at least one, giving the ablility to use standard cloak, which could just be were you can walk at whatever you suits normal speed is. And would require you to upgrade to next tier of cloak for running while cloaked. |
Enkouyami HornedWolf
34
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Posted - 2012.07.07 08:47:00 -
[162] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Cloak should not work when standing still, but should require constant movement for effectiveness. The faster you're moving, the more invisible you are, and the slower you're moving, the more visible you become; this is to prevent abuse by campers.
Cloak should have a time limit of like 10 seconds, and have a cooldown of 20 seconds.
Cloak should disable after the user get a kill. Cloak should not be for getting lots of kills while undetected, but should be for sneaking past the combat.
Cloak module should be easily fitted in a logistics dropsuit with a drop uplink; sneaking past enemies to plant a spawn points would be one of the most practical applications for a cloaking module in a team-based game.
Quoted for truth |
Cedric Reeg
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2012.07.07 11:46:00 -
[163] - Quote
Looking at Covops Frigates/Cruisers and black ops ships I think it's fine enough to translate it to Dust.
Equiping:
*VERY skill intensive to train just like for covops ships in EVE.
*Only suit capable to use would be the scout suit (a T2 variety) and T2 for the right LAV/HAV/Dropships.
*Have it take up a L weapon slot (have the T2 suite have an EXTRA L slot or have it take up the grenade slot and hitting the same button activates/deactivates, can use the weapon charge up time meter as an indicator like the forge gun) [Again in EVE cloaking takes up a weapon slot in ships) <- i'm liking that it takes up and uses the grenade slot the more I think on it
*For vehicles add an extra slot to put the cloak in for the T2 varients
*Large PG/CPU req. to equip without the T2 suit having a Role bonus as in EVE.
Use:
*Cloaking has a cooldown after putting up/taking down. 1 to several seconds based upon what is using the cloak (infantry to vehicles)
*No movement/visual distortion (again EVE as the example)
*For vehicles, infantry inside your ship are also cloaked while they are inside.
*No resource or timers, keep it like EVE cloak. (Yes there are people who afk cloak or just gate watch for intel gathering and don't do much else)
Limitations:
*Movement speed penalty unless a Role bonus/skill train is present. (as with Black ops ships, perhaps for Dropships only)
*Must decloak manually first before firing your weapon or hacking an objective/structure.
*Coming too close to infantry/vehicles/structures you can interact with automatically decloaks you (with the delay)
*Using an action/firing your weapon triggers the CD or a multiple of your CD (same as aggression timer to recloak after shooting something in EVE. IE: ganking someone in a Widow or pilgrim) (this prevents a gank going wrong and cheesing it away without consiquence)
*For dropships, coming to close to the ground (when the doors on the side of the ship open up) decloaks the dropship. *Infantry leaving the cloaked vehicles suffer the same CD as the vehicle would. (decloaks the vehicle regardless if air or ground perhaps) IE. Infantry hot dropping without the dropship landing suffer an extra penalty to activating the inertia buffer thing.
The point I see a covops infantry is to pick your battles for a gank or just recon/intel gathering. The fact your shields/armor is less then others normally gives other people an edge against you in a stand up fight. As a covops dropsuit you MUST have that first few moments on your terms to win in a fight 1v1, if it fails or you loose momentum in a prolonged fight YOU WILL DIE. Another thing to point out is that a cloaked sniper only has an advantege in fights were the battles don't move from a certain zone, endgame factional and 0.0 fights would move as the fight progresses to finish the objectives. You can have a high K/D ratio but did your team you were fighting on win or not, that is what will get you repeat business BEYOND Team Deathmatch style fighting.
Vehicles reach their potential working as a team or having a team at your back. So they would perform at their best working as a stealth ground/air strike showing up suddenly and laying waste to the enemy then dissapearing. Or stealth airdrop behind enemy lines or at a certain point to where the infantry in the vehicles must wait/work with the pilot or it'll fall short. |
zeropositivo positivo
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.07.07 14:55:00 -
[164] - Quote
what if looking throught the scope would make cloaked things shimmer slightly? This would make it kinda hard to use cloak as an esape tool
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Billy Pinkerton
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
11
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Posted - 2012.07.07 19:40:00 -
[165] - Quote
I have played nothing but the scout since I started the beta. I notice no one seems to want firing to be
capable while cloaked. As a scout,it seems no matter how good my shields are or how sneaky i am or even how
a sniper rifle that supposedly is a miniature rail take two to three shots to kill someone,we scouts still are very meek.
Having the ability to prone or a cloak would balance things a bit in my opinion.
As some have said through the thread.
1.Have the cloak use the shield or sidearm slot.
2. De cloak when running and firing weapons with a 3 second cooldown.
3.Not fully invisible, Just refractive camo.
4.Have to train for it.
5.Scout suits only. (I know,its "gotta be usable in all suits")
I think it would help us scouts out alot without "breaking the game"
A scout gets breathed on and dies,this would help us survive a lil more and be more useful in the scheme
of the game.
Love the game thus far,just tired of being a scout that cant do Scout like things, almost no point in playing a scout.lol.
But I will keep playing it,for it is the style I like.
Have a good weekend folks.
Billy. |
vidaria airadiv
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2012.07.09 01:43:00 -
[166] - Quote
from reading these posts i am inclined to promote that we say yes to dropships. turrets firing or troops dropping should break the effect until stealth can be reestablished. a counter point could be sensor towers that logistic loadouts could plop down, or even a bunker structure? (not sure what kind of buildings we will have our mitts on). naturally it should cost a decent amount for the loadout, high enough in the skilltree that not anyone who has just received there first pilot skill can loadout with it. but not taxing to the point that you couldnt have your choice of turrets, it should still have some flex in stealth builds.
now the reasons i say no to infantry and lav/hav, are that no matter what tech/balance we could come up with, its easier to add them into the game than to take them out. it makes sense to me in this lore that infantry couldn't have a fully operational stealth device as touching the ground would be contact with a surface (and lets face it, less headache for balance issues). lav's i could see a land speeder that doesnt touch the ground, and with a good driver wont touch anything else, that would be pretty easy to add in the future, or now... >.>; the hav though would be a bit more tricky, i don't know what kind of hover tech is available in the lore, so thats something i wont even suggest, but for balance? no stealth please ; ;
there you have it, you can have my opinions but not my freedom!
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sMoKeY GaNjA
2
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Posted - 2012.07.09 03:06:00 -
[167] - Quote
i think the cloaking should b strictly on dropships or at at extreme cost to the dropsuit or just not at all. there r enough ppl sitting on rooftops raining missiles from dropships |
RolyatDerTeufel
D3ath D3alers
RISE of LEGION
1648
|
Posted - 2012.07.09 04:52:00 -
[168] - Quote
sMoKeY GaNjA wrote:i think the cloaking should b strictly on dropships or at at extreme cost to the dropsuit or just not at all. there r enough ppl sitting on rooftops raining missiles from dropships
Idk how the rocket spam plays in, but the infantry and HAV and Dropships are confirmed to have cloaking.
but again, no cloaked combat.  |
Archangel Exodus
8
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Posted - 2012.07.10 08:24:00 -
[169] - Quote
It's easy, implement a stealth shield extender and recharger giving each dropsuit an option to have a cloak
2.) make a high tech suppressor, or make a line of suppressed weaponry, assault rifles, machine guns, submachine guns, pistols and shotguns, I mean this game is set in the future, should by now to be able to suppress a plasma bullet, laser weaponry though wont have a suppressed or covert line
3.) have the cloak act the same way the shield does, when it gets hit with bullet fire the strength of the shield goes down, until the shield has been depleted, now you have forced out of cloak |
Archangel Exodus
8
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Posted - 2012.07.10 08:28:00 -
[170] - Quote
Install a timer with the cloak that you can train, and it recharges much slower than the actual
Shield, and the stealth shield extender and recharger are slightly more costly in the CPU output. Have dedicated scanners both placeable, like a person said above and active stealth scanners in suits that you can use for a short period of time, something like infrared.
Allow all dropsuits to have this ability, because in a covert op, things can go wrong, and usually it's extremely ****** for the one who's trying to be quiet about things |
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Archangel Exodus
8
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Posted - 2012.07.10 08:33:00 -
[171] - Quote
So when things do go bad, a stealth ship can drop
In a pick him up, or a small team of stealth assault soldiers escort him
Out of the hot zone, or a full blown stealth infantry unit, assault guys escorting him
Out, heavies providing covering fire on the hillside, and tanks providing a wave of firepower to aid in their retreat and making sure no opposition is getting close, having LAVs ready to pick them
Up in case they can't get out on foot, and drop ships escorting the LAVs out of the hot zone |
Archangel Exodus
8
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Posted - 2012.07.10 08:43:00 -
[172] - Quote
Scouts should be the only one who has the ability to be totally invisble, as their main advantages in battle is surprise, speed,
And agility; everytime I've played I've been killed at least once by a scout who sneaks up behind me and lays into my back with gunfire
All other dropsuits should have adaptive camouflage, that changes as the environment changes, it would be great to have this if we had planets that has a snow blizzard going on and you have little visibility, or a planet that's nothing but sand dunes and kicks up sand storms, similar to the ones in MW3, or I wonder if CCP is gonna make up an all water planet with hurricanes and high waves, think of the possibility of water warfare? Like a submarine, etc? Adaptive camouflage would definitely be a plus for all dropsuits across all the planets |
zekina zek
D3LTA FORC3
Orion Empire
108
|
Posted - 2012.07.10 08:44:00 -
[173] - Quote
i feel if you give cloaking to infantry it should be an equipment item, movement wears it off, and it only lasts for a little while, higher level cloaks should allow you to move a small distance, or last longer, or have more uses. as an example.
If you use a special Covert ops Dropsuit it should have differnt types.
new skill books to possibly add
covert ops
covert heavy dropsuit - for covert AA forge guns / swarm launchers. - think Stealthbombers from eve.
covert scout dropsuit - for covert sniping. - Think Covert scanner ships from eve.
covert logistics dropsuit - for covert uplinks, covert nanohives, and covert shields, which can create bubbles of cloak for friendly units that do not have cloak. - think black ops battle ship from eve.
covert pilot dropsuit - for covert drop ship piloting.
covert assault dropsuit - think cloaky t3 cruisers. :D .
covert drop uplink - all covert dropsuits can go through here. reason to use it is because you come in stealthed up and the uplink itself has a stealthing mechanism.
covert nanohive - a hidden stash of ammo on the battlefield your covert heavy AV and covert scout snipers can use to maintain stealth.
lvl 1 cloak
low PG use high CPU use. CPU use goes down slightly with each levl.
1 time use, cannot be used within certain range of capture items, must be 30 meters from enemy units, and only lasts for 10 seconds.
Put this in Militia gear and people can start using it to avoid being seen as an enemy dropship cruises by.
lvl 2 cloak
2 uses.
15 seconds long.
can move 10 feet.
range to objectives/units is 25 meters closer.
lvl 3 cloak
3 uses
18 seconds long.
can move 15 feet
can be used within 20 meters of enemy units.
lvl 4 cloak
4 uses.
20 seconds long.
can move 20 feet.
can be within 15 meters of units / objectives. |
Archangel Exodus
8
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Posted - 2012.07.10 08:46:00 -
[174] - Quote
I mean CCP is 3/4 of the way there in terms of warefare, they have space, aerial, and ground....why not water an underwater? |
zekina zek
D3LTA FORC3
Orion Empire
108
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Posted - 2012.07.10 08:48:00 -
[175] - Quote
Level 5 Electronics is required for Cloaking skill in Eve Online. same should apply in Dust. |
zekina zek
D3LTA FORC3
Orion Empire
108
|
Posted - 2012.07.10 08:51:00 -
[176] - Quote
Archangel Exodus wrote:I mean CCP is 3/4 of the way there in terms of warefare, they have space, aerial, and ground....why not water an underwater?
there are many ocean planets in the eve universe.
actually the planet types are these.
Barren - looked like last builds planet. and current build also looks like this.
Storm
Ice
Lava
Gas
Oceanic ***
Temperate
Plasma
http://eveplanets.com/
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Archangel Exodus
8
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Posted - 2012.07.10 08:52:00 -
[177] - Quote
I like that, but it seems detrimental to fully specialized scouts, I'm all for balancing this game out, I mean they are the least armored dropsuit, they need something they can brag about that no other dropsuit has; heavy dropsuits they are like walking tanks, assault dropsuits, we have the upgrade in balance and ability to change at a moments notice, scouts, what do they have? Speed? Mobility?? Sounds a little too lopsided there...and I'm speaking for them because I've been lucky to have been on a team with a few VERY talented snipers, and my ass has been obilvious to the enemy that's coming behind me and they kill them just as I'm turning around, they had the drop on me but they saved my ass, give them the ability for a full on cloak CCP |
Archangel Exodus
8
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Posted - 2012.07.10 08:56:00 -
[178] - Quote
Oh yeah? I'm new to EVE online, still trying to learn as much as I can from the EVE players, in fact I don't know why there is such a hate for them; I respect them that they've been playing for a while, and if they can throw me some decent SP and ISK my way and before that give me some info on the EVE universe, all I can say is a sincere thank you for the help, as I'm always on the forums looking for new info. But thank you for that info on planets, so yeah that does open up a whole ton of possibilities for warfare. |
Archangel Exodus
8
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Posted - 2012.07.10 09:04:00 -
[179] - Quote
Yes most definitely, this skill is going to be incredibly specialized and should be treated as such, I agree for the level 5 attribute for cloaking, but idk, I think scouts should have a slight level up on that one compared to all other dropsuit types, it's just they can be quite useful on the battlefield, but it's their ability to not get noticed is their best asset, and I think in terms of balancing they should have a leg up on all other dropsuit types in terms of cloaking, they can't be infantry, they cant be in a prolonged gunfight, even with upgraded armor, they can be support as snipers and intel gathering, assasinations, demolitions expert, a definite yes, but they can't take the battle head on as other dropsuits can, and that's not a bad thing, they just have to approach the battle on a different set of terms |
Archangel Exodus
8
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Posted - 2012.07.10 09:09:00 -
[180] - Quote
I agree also if CCP doesn't add a stealth module as an equipment item, then I can see a dedicated stealth line of dropsuits, I just hope that they don't take away any armor from the heavy,assault, or logistics dropsuits, I dont know about you guys, but I surely would give up speed instead of armor for the ability to use a cloak |
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