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Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 11	Posted - 2015.07.16 06:02:00 - [1] - Quote Let's go ahead and watch a four minute comedy video on why you should just tape a magnifying glass to the center of your screen and use a Forge Gun instead of using a sniper rifle. I'll never understand the hypocrisy of how an immobile sniper killing people with five or seven shots from 400m away is somehow more OP than a sentinel with weapon/explosive damage resistance with a one-shot-everything weapon at 400m who still has the benefit of mobility. Apparently the deciding factor in whether or not either of those are OP is a scope, which is just ridiculous. I'm sure there's going to be a boatload of "you suck" and "git gud scrub" - fact of the matter is that a Forge Gun can do just as much if not better (AV capability, mobility). And because of that, in combination with Dust 514's abyssmal map design which puts a tower with clear view on two objectives, you get situations like the above video where it is nigh impossible to get them off of a roof without an orbital strike - which can be difficult to attain at times. Proper gameplay balance is 3,500+ Warpoints to get an Orbital strike to deal with a handful of dudes that can totally cover just two objectives, I guess. This really is stupid. Don't get me wrong, I'm no Gem Cutter (I don't have a zoom function on my TV) but I'm certainly not the worst sniper in the game either. Apart from having to deal with shoddy hit detection and the fact that the Efficiency Rating in the lower-right will lie to you (says headshot damage but it really means a miss) the sniper rifle just CANNOT do enough damage to make it worth while at times, even with the 300% headshot bonus. If a Sentinel can survive -SEVERAL- headshots and still lay you out with a single blast from a Forge Gun then what point is there to using a sniper rifle in the first place? All of this is demonstrated with this video here, right down to the efficiency rating being just broken and the fact that even a bad Sentinel can out-class a sniper any day, even if that sniper has the initiative. Had I done the smart thing a year ago and specced into Sentinels when they were OP as hell, I would be able to put the dude down in one shot using the exact same weapon he's using because.... #balance? Here's a post by Skyline Lonewolf (another well known sniper) who echoes this sentiment. Honestly, at this point, I'm just going to begrudgingly advocate that sniper rifles be removed from the game entirely because they serve no purpose any longer, their role on the battlefield has been neutered, and there is no way to make them viable without the entirety of the forums throwing a conniption fit. There is little to no support of sniper rifles - either through balancing or role mechanics - from the current CPM (like, seriously). Symbiotic Forks already took off back in February, even despite having an officer sniper rifle named after him. Gem Cutter took off years ago, and a lot of the more memorable snipers beyond that have left for greener pastures. I mean, honestly, how many of you actually look at someone on the player list and think, "Sniper" anymore? And as much as I don't want this to be a rant thread, what honest to god discussion points can there be when the mass majority won't even hear proposals on how to make snipers better? What discussion can there be if the only thing the forums, CPM, and Devs seem to be willing to consider is a) nerf the sniper rifle b) fiddle with things that don't matter to the sniper rifle at all? All I'm asking is to be proven wrong, here. CPM2 Candidate Design A SKIN 2
Operative 1174 Uuali True Companion Planetary Requisitions 936	Posted - 2015.07.16 06:24:00 - [2] - Quote It would help if you backed way up so you could see those guys on top at all times then use a tac sniper rifle. You can fire three to five quick ones into them. I agree the forge gun shouldn't be a long range weapon as it is. Long range is a relative thing. It is a Cal weapon, but it is a chopped mining laser and could have a shorter range due to firing such a powerful blast. Who mines that far away? Make it very powerful to 100m and reduce the spool up. MY CPM2 PLATFORM
Dingleburt Bangledack Dingle's Discount Emporium 400	Posted - 2015.07.16 06:27:00 - [3] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: a four minute comedy video That was sure a funny match. Glad I was there. Just be glad you weren't there the match before when my squad and I were all running LRs.
VAHZZ Nos Nothi 4	Posted - 2015.07.16 06:33:00 - [4] - Quote You are a horrible sniper Aeon. My life is for taco.
Russell Franklin Random Gunz Rise Of Legion. 19	Posted - 2015.07.16 06:44:00 - [5] - Quote Being a forge gunner myself I deal with snipers almost every match. They are still a good deterant for anyone holding a point without cover.FGs will one shot will most infantry but that comes at a price (4 shot mags and a 4 second charge up). 400m with a FG? I wish, the effective range of most FGs is i little over 250m with the exception of the Alldin which is closer to the 400m mark. All you need to do is stay out at around 300m or further from your target. If your sniping closer than that find a good hiding spot and take a few shots then move to a different spot then repeat. Dedicated forge gunner and vehicle removal specialist
No-one-ganks like-Gaston Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 287	Posted - 2015.07.16 06:52:00 - [6] - Quote Gotta agree with you here. I forge snipe on occasion and it's pretty smooth going. You can't zoom like you can with the sniper rifle, no, but the trade off is that you can one shot anything you touch. You just have to touch it, first. But you've got a much larger target than what a sniper aims for (a single hit anywhere as opposed to multiple shots to the body, but preferably the head which can still take two or three). I started off trying a sniper rifle and figured I was just bad at it, even skilled to proto. But then I used a forge gun and the sniper rifle just feels so weak and clunky compared to it. Sure you can fire more shots quickly, but the sway when you so much as brush the left stick or toggle crouch, and aim adjustment if you have to move at allis a total ***. Forge gun, on the other hand, feels so ***** precise. Not to mention you can take out the intended targets, dropships and tanks, as well as infantry. The only thing stopping forge gunners from completely taking over the sniper role, I think, is the inability to bring in their own nanohives and the lack of any sort of zoom.
abdullah muzaffar Random Gunz Rise Of Legion. 649	Posted - 2015.07.16 06:52:00 - [7] - Quote Russell Franklin wrote: Being a forge gunner myself I deal with snipers almost every match. They are still a good deterant for anyone holding a point without cover.FGs will one shot will most infantry but that comes at a price (4 shot mags and a 4 second charge up). 400m with a FG? I wish, the effective range of most FGs is i little over 250m with the exception of the Alldin which is closer to the 400m mark. All you need to do is stay out at around 300m or further from your target. If your sniping closer than that find a good hiding spot and take a few shots then move to a different spot then repeat. Pretty sure all of them have the same 300m range. IJR took my soul. RIP 20/3/15 5:14
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 329	Posted - 2015.07.16 07:02:00 - [8] - Quote Going to have to get some footage in-game to confirm some things...but for now: Why use the Sniper Rifle when the Extremely Accurate, Long-Range, Industrial Strength Anti-Material Weapon is sitting right there, being arguably easier to use for anti-infantry, and still allows for anti-vehicle? I don't think the Forge Guns need nerfed (at least, not in any significant way) but that a balance pass on sniper rifles needs to happen with the understanding that Forge Guns are a thing that exist, that can be used in the same role. Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. Vehicle Re-vamp Proposal
Vitharr Foebane 2	Posted - 2015.07.16 07:14:00 - [9] - Quote Operative 1174 Uuali wrote: It would help if you backed way up so you could see those guys on top at all times then use a tac sniper rifle. You can fire three to five quick ones into them. I agree the forge gun shouldn't be a long range weapon as it is. Long range is a relative thing. It is a Cal weapon, but it is a chopped mining laser and could have a shorter range due to firing such a powerful blast. Who mines that far away? Make it very powerful to 100m and reduce the spool up. Please tell me you dont really think a Forge Gun is a mining laser... In case you were(god forbid) no the FG is an anti material weapon that throws solid(ie not lasers) slugs at 7 kilometers a second. @ OP. is the FG hit scan? what about the SR? can the FG ADS? what about the SR? Can the FG hit out to 350+ meters? what about the SR? If you are trying for another round of FG nerfs I can only ask why? Amarr Omnisoldier: Assault, Commando, Logistics, Scout, Sentinel at V My faith is in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
Russell Franklin Random Gunz Rise Of Legion. 19	Posted - 2015.07.16 07:20:00 - [10] - Quote abdullah muzaffar wrote: Russell Franklin wrote: Being a forge gunner myself I deal with snipers almost every match. They are still a good deterant for anyone holding a point without cover.FGs will one shot will most infantry but that comes at a price (4 shot mags and a 4 second charge up). 400m with a FG? I wish, the effective range of most FGs is i little over 250m with the exception of the Alldin which is closer to the 400m mark. All you need to do is stay out at around 300m or further from your target. If your sniping closer than that find a good hiding spot and take a few shots then move to a different spot then repeat. Pretty sure all of them have the same 300m range. The effective range for all the forge guns is the same except for the alldins. I believe the initial specs give it out to 400m unless thats changed. I dont use AFGs much unless its against multiple HAVs or ADS. Using an Alldins at 400m would be useless against most targets anyways. Dedicated forge gunner and vehicle removal specialist

Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 7	Posted - 2015.07.16 07:22:00 - [11] - Quote No joke, I have a pair of these. My Dad gave them to me. With the zoom feature on my TV, the Dust Menu options, and a mouse and keyboard...they kind of work...except your peripheral vision is non-existent. Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.07.16 07:49:00 - [12] - Quote Firstly Aeon, I agree that sniper rifles should be fixed. The biggest problem seems to be hit detection when the target is just in line of sight past an object. The target information lies and you miss what should be a hit. Rattati also has said he may increase zoom fidelity. However I disagree with some things: Firstly, forge guns should not be nerfed. Their range is 300m. Snipers therefore out range forge guns. The sniper hit detection problem can be overcome by getting a clearer view of the target. Yes it's broken, but in that video it was clear your shots up to the tower weren't working. You should have moved back away from the wall. Also, was there really not a better spot to snipe from? Why make a rage filled post, insulting the community and trying to get forge guns nerfed? You should have just titled the tread "fix sniper rifle hit detection and efficiency indicator". Then you would have a very good point to make and great evidence. In the meantime, try to get to better sniping positions. And if you shoot them and they take no damage, move away from the wall you are standing behind. (Also tip: forge guns do no damage beyond 300m, so snipe from further away).
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.07.16 07:49:00 - [13] - Quote Forge gun is outranges. 320m absolute range. And the sniper rifle is more accurate... Or it would be at 60 FPS WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 11	Posted - 2015.07.16 07:52:00 - [14] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: Firstly Aeon, I agree that sniper rifles should be fixed. The biggest problem seems to be hit detection when the target is just in line of sight past an object. The target information lies and you miss what should be a hit. Rattati also has said he may increase zoom fidelity. However I disagree with some things: Firstly, forge guns should not be nerfed. Their range is 300m. Snipers therefore out range forge guns. The sniper hit detection problem can be overcome by getting a clearer view of the target. Yes it's broken, but in that video it was clear your shots up to the tower weren't working. You should have moved back away from the wall. Also, was there really not a better spot to snipe from? Why make a rage filled post, insulting the community and trying to get forge guns nerfed? You should have just titled the tread "fix sniper rifle hit detection and efficiency indicator". Then you would have a very good point to make and great evidence. In the meantime, try to get to better sniping positions. And if you shoot them and they take no damage, move away from the wall you are standing behind. (Also tip: forge guns do no damage beyond 300m, so snipe from further away). Where on earth did I say I wanted Forge Gun's nerfed....? EDIT: Let's break down your response a bit more. 1) I never said Forge Guns should be nerfed. Ever. Like, this entire thread was about why Forge Guns are a more preferable option to Sniper Rifles because Sniper Rifles just suck for any reason other than taking out stationary targets or scouts. 2) -Some- Sniper Rifles outrange Forge Guns and that assumes map placement. Lot of sniping positions were killed off with the range nerfs which leads to my next point: 3) Try better sniping positions...? Where at, on that map? The wall was the only cover I had against those forge gunners and anywhere else had absolutely no cover or visibility on the targets I was trying to hit. It was a freaggin miracle that one of my squad-mates managed to put a Thale's round in them but I shouldn't have to default to an -OFFICER SNIPER RIFLE- to counter a prototype forge gun. I'll just say this, if it is really that simple, record a video and throw it up here. Show me how to do it and I'll 100% admit that I'm wrong and that sniper rifles are god's gift to Dust 514. CPM2 Candidate Design A SKIN 2
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 7	Posted - 2015.07.16 07:58:00 - [15] - Quote Jadek Menaheim wrote: No joke, I have a pair of these. My Dad gave them to me. With the zoom feature on my TV, the Dust Menu options, and a mouse and keyboard...they kind of work...except your peripheral vision is non-existent. Confirming I am a scrub who relies on crutches. https://twitter.com/JadekMenaheim/status/621589203575537668 Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 11	Posted - 2015.07.16 08:00:00 - [16] - Quote VAHZZ wrote: You are a horrible sniper Aeon. Where's your sniper video? CPM2 Candidate Design A SKIN 2
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 11	Posted - 2015.07.16 08:01:00 - [17] - Quote Jadek Menaheim wrote: Jadek Menaheim wrote: No joke, I have a pair of these. My Dad gave them to me. With the zoom feature on my TV, the Dust Menu options, and a mouse and keyboard...they kind of work...except your peripheral vision is non-existent. Confirming I am a scrub who relies on crutches. https://twitter.com/JadekMenaheim/status/621589203575537668 Even if I did get a new television and a pair of magnifying glasses it still wouldn't account for the "read sniper, insert hate", "read forge gun, must be nerf thread", and shoddy hit detection. ****'s borked, yo. I'm fixing to pick up Forge Guns because I'm tired of screwing with it. CPM2 Candidate Design A SKIN 2
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.07.16 08:01:00 - [18] - Quote Ok, I guess you didn't specifically say nerf forge guns. But you post is so confrontational, and sounds pretty anti-forge, that's the impression I got. Moving on, it would be great if CCP could fix the problem of snipers missing when the indicator says headshot. What other things could be done to improve sniper rifles? Rattati might increase the zoom. I have seen an increase of sniper use recently, and there are some maps / situations where they are devestating. For example, the domination map with the pipes leading to a central tower is dominated by snipers. Played a game where there was no chance at all of taking the point due to snipers covering the high ground above the point from goodness knows where. So they can be good.
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 11	Posted - 2015.07.16 08:08:00 - [19] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: Ok, I guess you didn't specifically say nerf forge guns. But you post is so confrontational, and sounds pretty anti-forge, that's the impression I got. Moving on, it would be great if CCP could fix the problem of snipers missing when the indicator says headshot. What other things could be done to improve sniper rifles? Rattati might increase the zoom. I have seen an increase of sniper use recently, and there are some maps / situations where they are devestating. For example, the domination map with the pipes leading to a central tower if dominated by snipers. Played a game where there was no chance at all of taking the point due to snipers covering the high ground above the point from goodness knows where. So they can be good. Read it differently then? If you want an anti-forge thread, I can give you an anti-forge thread. I'm pointing out reasons why the Sniper Rifle sucks. It isn't always about Forge Guns. My bad for comparing Sniper Rifles to Heavy Sniper Rifles. And yeah, anecdotal evidence has a way of doing that. Domination maps are ideal for snipers because there's only one objective to cover and that is where everyone is going to congregate, so if you set up a sniping perch -anywhere that can view that objective- you're golden. PC and FW being exactly, only, and positively -one- game mode (skirmish) is a completely different story and you can't expect something that is going to be somewhat viable in the one-game mode that a great majority of the community hates (hence why Acquisition came along) as the primary evidence toward how viable a weapon is. That being said, Domination isn't a primarily competitive game-mode, so I dare ask the question: What is a sniper supposed to do when he's not doing Domination? CPM2 Candidate Design A SKIN 2
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.07.16 08:18:00 - [20] - Quote You had more success when you moved back from the wall. Took you a lot of hitting nothing before doing this however. Protofits says forge guns have a 400m range (basic variant snipers 450). But I thought forges were 300m. Am I wrong or is protofits? Breakin stuff says 320m. The Thales user could have used a different sniper rifle. So going officer wasn't necessary. But yes, buff snipers. I agree.

Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.07.16 08:23:00 - [21] - Quote My domination map example was just to show that snipers have the potential to be effective, given the right situation. It was just my best recent experience of snipers. But I agree, in most situations they don't seem to have much effect on the battle. You've sniped in PC. What has that experience told you about snipers and what should be done?
Daddrobit You Can Call Me Daddy 1	Posted - 2015.07.16 08:34:00 - [22] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: You had more success when you moved back from the wall. Took you a lot of hitting nothing before doing this however. Protofits says forge guns have a 400m range (basic variant snipers 450). But I thought forges were 300m. Am I wrong or is protofits? Breakin stuff says 320m. The Thales user could have used a different sniper rifle. So going officer wasn't necessary. But yes, buff snipers. I agree. Protofits is correct. Ironically, the tac has ever so slightly more zoom, but it has less range than the FG at only 350m. And I don't even bother using a sniper to kill FG heavies anymore, just bring out another FG, wait until the reticule turns red, and PLOMP +50 O.G. Pink Fluffy Bunny
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 1	Posted - 2015.07.16 08:40:00 - [23] - Quote You can fly up there with an ads, if not kill them all out right starve them of equipment as in ammo and re spawns. or straight assault them in a normal dropship. you've had to have taken people off that tower before, it's not exactly a new tactic but for gods sake don't call in drop ships right under them.... as for the "where could I have gotten a better angle" that would have been the mountains opposite to where you were sniping from. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me. "I sometimes wonder why I share stuff "- CCP Rattati
Mejt0 Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.07.16 08:46:00 - [24] - Quote There's few skirmish maps where you can cover an objective from your redline. But besides them and domination maps, sniper rifle has only one use. To clear high grounds. Around 500 dmg per bullet is ok (Thale), but it's not about dmg really. FG.. you can snipe with it. But it's not an 'effective' way to spend your time during a ba Loyal to The State Official Caldari Commando User
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 11	Posted - 2015.07.16 08:47:00 - [25] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: My domination map example was just to show that snipers have the potential to be effective, given the right situation. It was just my best recent experience of snipers. But I agree, in most situations they don't seem to have much effect on the battle. You've sniped in PC. What has that experience told you about snipers and what should be done? A bunch of things that CCP, the CPM, and the Community simply aren't willing to or simply cannot do. Universally speaking, hit detection needs to be improved on the damned thing or it needs some kind of aim assist. People complain about the 'wiggle-wiggle strafe' but imagine how much of a pain it is when you're trying to line up a single pixel on top of another pixel (someone's head at long range). Then you have the core problem with the Sniper Rifle in general: What role is it supposed to play on the battlefield? Is it meant to do high alpha damage at long range? If so, why is it so unreliable about that, difficult to use, and - the most important question - to what end? KDR padding? Is it supposed to guard objectives? If so, then why are all the maps designed in such a way that the objectives are completely concealed/covered from sniper fire - and not just the hack panel itself, we're talking anywhere near the objective. Is it supposed to suppress enemies? If so, then why does it do so little damage (outside of a Thale's) that you can regen through it before the next shot finds it's mark? Why so much focus on precision, high-accuracy headshots? Is it supposed to support friendlies? If so, then why aren't there in-game mechanics to allow for that? Why am I not able to mark a target for my team and then subsequently get WP whenever that target is killed? Is it for equipment disposal? If so, why doesn't it have splash radius of FLUX to ensure that whatever piece of equipment you're aiming at -actually gets destroyed- instead of TacNET making your reticle red and not doing any damage? The sniper rifle is a weapon that has no purpose on the battlefield and no-one wants to give it purpose because it is the red-headed step child of Dust 514. No-one cares, and if they did, it would have been rebalanced and overhauled by now. The Sniper Rifle has been gradually destroyed and with it any memorable player that embraced the playstyle. Point is, right now, the way it has been balanced and designed was the community wanting Snipers to work -HARDER- when sniping in Dust 514 is arguably the hardest game to snipe in as it is. We're expected to work against shoddy hit detection, framerate lag, network lag, and somehow make sometimes -MULTIPLE- headshots against fast moving targets at ranges that are too close for comfort or too far to be practical (lining up a single pixel reticle on a single pixel head, as mentioned earlier). And on top of that we've had our range reduced because "range encourages bad gameplay" (no, the redline does). To put it simply, Sniper Rifles need a dedicated, -DESIGNED- (not CPM or Community crowdsourced, because they suck at it) role. Once that role has been established it needs to be balanced and formed into that role as much as humanly possible. A shotgun is meant for ultra-close predator kills, a Laser Rifle is meant for moderate-long range tracking kills, then the Sniper Rifle needs to be meant for -SOMETHING- other than being a scapegoat. CPM2 Candidate Design A SKIN 2
Jack Boost Zarena Family 899	Posted - 2015.07.16 09:01:00 - [26] - Quote hmm... In this example: Tactics: - this point is in the middle of map. EASY accesible for all. Both attack and deffend. Don't tell me that redline sniper have problem there... If redline sniper don't have problem there... why you? If someone capture this point and deffend it .. don't cry. If you can't hit target in stright line here (there isn't place for glitching) with eg. charged sniper rifle (OHK - yes you show us that you can use it, and this isn't officer weapon to counter normal weapon) ... don't... Forges: - 300m range .. vs vehicles - 180-200m rendering of infranty (come - lets us it) Sniper rifle: - 400-450m for all targets (rendering and 'red dot') If you want to replace sniper rifles by FG, I'm so happy. Now all people will be at battlefield and must be realy 'snipers'. Will FG be fun for all... duno. - need for slow and specialized fit (not all will work) - no extra ammo - no scope - actualy at battlefield + at last vehicles will be keep distance And doing 5-8 kills for all match will be the most anoying thing for todays snipers with 20+ kills per match. But who knows.. maybe this is good way. Not much time left...
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.07.16 09:07:00 - [27] - Quote I'm going to have to skill into snipers to try it out properly aren't I? Can I get away without proficiency? I'd quite like to try a cloaked min scout with a tactical sniper rifle.
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 11	Posted - 2015.07.16 09:32:00 - [28] - Quote Jack Boost wrote: hmm... In this example: Tactics: - this point is in the middle of map. EASY accesible for all. Both attack and deffend. Don't tell me that redline sniper have problem there... If redline sniper don't have problem there... why you? If someone capture this point and deffend it .. don't cry. If you can't hit target in stright line here (there isn't place for glitching) with eg. charged sniper rifle (OHK - yes you show us that you can use it, and this isn't officer weapon to counter normal weapon) ... don't... Forges: - 300m range .. vs vehicles - 180-200m rendering of infranty (come - lets us it) Sniper rifle: - 400-450m for all targets (rendering and 'red dot') If you want to replace sniper rifles by FG, I'm so happy. Now all people will be at battlefield and must be realy 'snipers'. Will FG be fun for all... duno. - need for slow and specialized fit (not all will work) - no extra ammo - no scope - actualy at battlefield + at last vehicles will be keep distance And doing 5-8 kills for all match will be the most anoying thing for todays snipers with 20+ kills per match. But who knows.. maybe this is good way. Tac Sniper Rifle: 300m Charge Sniper Rifle: 350m Sniper Rifle: 400m Thale's: 450m Yeah, no. It isn't 400-450m for all targets, rendering or red-dot. Sure, you might get lucky by sweeping the reticle over the horizon and seeing a chevron, but you're likely not going to see something bolting across the distance at 350m+. Varoth Drac wrote: I'm going to have to skill into snipers to try it out properly aren't I? Can I get away without proficiency? I'd quite like to try a cloaked min scout with a tactical sniper rifle. Do it. I recommend everyone have an opportunity to try out hair pulling, excruciatingly frustrating gameplay scenarios. Pro-tip about the Tactical Sniper Rifle though, with a 300m range you'll be facing a few issues: 1) You won't be able to counter snipe hardly anyone without them pegging you first. 2) If you can see a Forge Gunner, they can see you. 3) The circle reticle of doom that is just asking for false hits and blue-shield flickers. 4) Lower zoom range than other sniper rifles puts you at a major disadvantage. 5) Get ready to understand how frustrating it is whenever someone literally steps 1m out of your range and you suddenly can't do damage anymore. 6) Cloaked min-scout is about useless and a single round from any sniper rifle will put you in the respawn screen. CPM2 Candidate Design A SKIN 2
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 11	Posted - 2015.07.16 09:39:00 - [29] - Quote Found a solution to my problems. CPM2 Candidate Design A SKIN 2
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.07.16 09:45:00 - [30] - Quote Daddrobit wrote: Varoth Drac wrote: You had more success when you moved back from the wall. Took you a lot of hitting nothing before doing this however. Protofits says forge guns have a 400m range (basic variant snipers 450). But I thought forges were 300m. Am I wrong or is protofits? Breakin stuff says 320m. The Thales user could have used a different sniper rifle. So going officer wasn't necessary. But yes, buff snipers. I agree. Protofits is correct. Ironically, the tac has ever so slightly more zoom, but it has less range than the FG at only 350m. And I don't even bother using a sniper to kill FG heavies anymore, just bring out another FG, wait until the reticule turns red, and PLOMP +50 Protofits is not correct. Forge gun absolute range is 320. Repeatedly tested and confirmed. Forge guns have not seen any buffs since the range nerf, charge time nerf and splash nerfs. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.

Dewie Cheecham Enlightened Infantries Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 695	Posted - 2015.07.16 10:04:00 - [31] - Quote The problems are the hit detection, and I'd say a head shot should be a one-shot kill regardless of the target. There is a limit to the amount of amour you can add to the helmet. However there are two issues that actually overshadows the hit detection. Both are related to movement, and in part ties into hit detection as well. Moving targets. Strafing is literally OP. The wiggle-wiggle really screws up hit detection to the point where it looks like a "potential miss" becomes a certain miss. The benefit of the doubt goes to the strafing player. Moving shooter. Snipers are severely penalized by any movement. We can barely turn to aim on a moving target fast enough without offsetting the aim, making the weapon sway wildly. With a Low RoF weapon like the sniper, that is devastating. Even for a good sniper, it can take 2-3 seconds to aim the gun reliably., anything less than that is a lucky shot. Sadly only the snipers are penalized by strafing, all other weapons seem to maintain a fairly decent accuracy even when the shooter is strafing. It doesn't help that in order to kill anything, you have to aim for head shots exclusively, as only militia scouts are likely to die from a one-shot kill anywhere else on them. And the other Low RoF weapons do One-Shot kill their targets reliably. A couple of suggestions. 1. Make strafing like sprinting or better yet jumping by adding a stamina cost for a direction change, and add some inertia, meaning the strafer can no longer defy nature by changing direction without effort. 2. Increase spread of weapons fire when strafing and jumping.
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 7	Posted - 2015.07.16 10:08:00 - [32] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Found a solution to my problems. Badass I would opt for using the basic frame over the sentinel class, it's a good deal faster and cheaper. I fit my forge gun snipper to also work in CQC if the situation calls for it. 3x Myofibiril Stims 1x Adv Assault Forge Gun 1x Core Locus It's does the job. https://twitter.com/JadekMenaheim/status/621620624306401281 Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 11	Posted - 2015.07.16 10:10:00 - [33] - Quote Jadek Menaheim wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Found a solution to my problems. Badass I would opt for using the basic frame over the sentinel class, it's a good deal faster and cheaper. I fit my forge gun snipper to also work in CQC if the situation calls for it. 3x Myofibiril Stims 1x Adv Assault Forge Gun 1x Core Locus It's does the job. https://twitter.com/JadekMenaheim/status/621620624306401281 Maybe, but the damage resistance is pretty awesome as well - especially against Missile ADS dropships. CPM2 Candidate Design A SKIN 2
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 7	Posted - 2015.07.16 10:12:00 - [34] - Quote ^ Indeed! It's good to have variation in your wheelhouse. Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.07.16 10:12:00 - [35] - Quote Perhaps the damage should just be increased. So you would one shot light targets. Two shot most targets, and headshot kill all targets. In fact, how about giving all tiers the same damage and increasing mag size with tier. Std 5, adv 6 pro 7?
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 11	Posted - 2015.07.16 10:15:00 - [36] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: Perhaps the damage should just be increased. So you would one shot light targets. Two shot most targets, and headshot kill all targets. In fact, how about giving all tiers the same damage and increasing mag size with tier. Std 5, adv 6 pro 7? Maybe. I 100% agree that a headshot should 100% kill any target, especially considering how freaggin difficult it is. It is a real pain in the hind quarters to snipe a heavy in the face and not have him die because #reasons. It'd be a good start, at least. Would make Sniper Rifles a dedicated counter to Forge Gunners, for certain, rather than just plinking away at their shields. CPM2 Candidate Design A SKIN 2
Jack Boost Zarena Family 899	Posted - 2015.07.16 10:59:00 - [37] - Quote Why you think that counter for Forgeguners are only sniper rifles? This is false from the start... Not much time left...
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 11	Posted - 2015.07.16 11:03:00 - [38] - Quote Jack Boost wrote: Why you think that counter for Forgeguners are only sniper rifles? This is false from the start... Did I -say- only sniper rifles? Did I specifically type in o n l y sniper rifles are the dedicated counters? What is wrong with you? Are you looking to start trouble here? CPM2 Candidate Design A SKIN 2
PROPHET HELLSCREAM LUSITANOS WARRIORS 17	Posted - 2015.07.16 11:13:00 - [39] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Varoth Drac wrote: Perhaps the damage should just be increased. So you would one shot light targets. Two shot most targets, and headshot kill all targets. In fact, how about giving all tiers the same damage and increasing mag size with tier. Std 5, adv 6 pro 7? Maybe. I 100% agree that a headshot should 100% kill any target, especially considering how freaggin difficult it is. It is a real pain in the hind quarters to snipe a heavy in the face and not have him die because #reasons. It'd be a good start, at least. Would make Sniper Rifles a dedicated counter to Forge Gunners, for certain, rather than just plinking away at their shields. I agree, the only thing the sniper rifle needs is the increase in damage... not too much. And not messing with the zoom. at range, as this date, i think the SR is balanced... in closer distances the kalakyota class weapon should be buffed in damage keeping the sway and everything else... A FG will always fall when facing a SNIPER not a sniper Go snipers!! Hobby: Headshot on cloaked units
Jack Boost Zarena Family 899	Posted - 2015.07.16 11:16:00 - [40] - Quote I don't. Just runing with forge that main purpose is keeping (keeping - keyword) vehicles away is not that easy that you describe here. Yes I can snipe infranty, but average 5-8 kills per match isn't big threat for infranty. Using sniper riffle and geting 20+ average kils per match is different level for this. As sniper you have 100-150m more efficinet range they FG... it is not enough for your safety? And you still can OHK - safer. You start using Fg. Good. Make priority in match - vehicles > istalation/uplinks > infantry and earn average 1k wp. Back and think how hard you make it vs rest of team. If you compare it to sniping... you answer yourself why never people will use FG as sniper rifle vs effort. But this is only one voice vs many. Not much time left...

Louis Domi Tugastroy Evil Syndicate Alliance. 1	Posted - 2015.07.16 11:16:00 - [41] - Quote Operative 1174 Uuali wrote: It would help if you backed way up so you could see those guys on top at all times then use a tac sniper rifle. You can fire three to five quick ones into them. I agree the forge gun shouldn't be a long range weapon as it is. Long range is a relative thing. It is a Cal weapon, but it is a chopped mining laser and could have a shorter range due to firing such a powerful blast. Who mines that far away? Make it very powerful to 100m and reduce the spool up. What? Nerf the FG to 100m? No
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 11	Posted - 2015.07.16 11:31:00 - [42] - Quote PROPHET HELLSCREAM wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Varoth Drac wrote: Perhaps the damage should just be increased. So you would one shot light targets. Two shot most targets, and headshot kill all targets. In fact, how about giving all tiers the same damage and increasing mag size with tier. Std 5, adv 6 pro 7? Maybe. I 100% agree that a headshot should 100% kill any target, especially considering how freaggin difficult it is. It is a real pain in the hind quarters to snipe a heavy in the face and not have him die because #reasons. It'd be a good start, at least. Would make Sniper Rifles a dedicated counter to Forge Gunners, for certain, rather than just plinking away at their shields. I agree, the only thing the sniper rifle needs is the increase in damage... not too much. And not messing with the zoom. at range, as this date, i think the SR is balanced... in closer distances the kalakyota class weapon should be buffed in damage keeping the sway and everything else... A FG will always fall when facing a SNIPER not a sniper Go snipers!! Aeon Amadi in that video and in that map there were a lot of places to take out those heavy`s and assult k.0 with a SR. Pull up the map and draw some x's. Don't just say "there were a lot of places to snipe from". CPM2 Candidate Design A SKIN 2
Sergeant Sazu Mantodea MC 677	Posted - 2015.07.16 11:53:00 - [43] - Quote I'm just sitting here wondering why sniper rifles are the only hitscan weapon in the game without gradual damage fall-off. Having full damage at the very ends of it's absolute range is what enables and encourages redline sniping. If gradual damage fall-off were implemented starting at 300m or so, it would justify a massive buff to their damage and/or headshot bonus and becoming a great counter to rooftop campers. As just another slaying weapon, that's my vision for it. As a role, it definitely needs the ability to mark targets. Make them appear on passive scans for all squad members for x seconds, based on tier. Shouldn't be impossible to implement with our team, I'd imagine. Not sure which button to assign that to, though. [64.9m SP] Sazu's Trading
Lex DOCIEL What The French 53	Posted - 2015.07.16 14:17:00 - [44] - Quote Upvote +1 Simply put, a headshot using a sniper in scope mode should result in a kill, whatever the dropsuit/sniper class or meta level. All the damage calculation should stay with non-headshot shots only. No scope shots are so difficult to land I hardly see it getting OP. Add to that a light long distance precision loss for forgeguns (not a huge issue against AV, their first use, but a strong weakness against infantry), and the case is closed. Proud player of the most strategic and addictive massively-multiplayer FPS in the world.
Sir Dukey G0DS AM0NG MEN New Eden's Heros 2	Posted - 2015.07.16 15:14:00 - [45] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: You had more success when you moved back from the wall. Took you a lot of hitting nothing before doing this however. Protofits says forge guns have a 400m range (basic variant snipers 450). But I thought forges were 300m. Am I wrong or is protofits? Breakin stuff says 320m. The Thales user could have used a different sniper rifle. So going officer wasn't necessary. But yes, buff snipers. I agree. Going officer is absolutely necessary because every sniper that is not officer is almost next to useless unless you have proficiency 5, caldari commando 5, 3 complex damage mods on your caldari commando, and you use a kaalakoitia tactical sniper. standard sniper and Charge Sniper are probably two of the most shittest snipers available. The only sniper worth a damn is the tactical. "Skill for thee but no skill for me" so is the saying of the swarm infantry.
Thor Odinson42 Negative-Feedback 6	Posted - 2015.07.16 15:17:00 - [46] - Quote The last thing Dust needs is better sniper rifles, unless you want people to turn on Dust so they can take a nap.
VAHZZ Nos Nothi 4	Posted - 2015.07.16 15:41:00 - [47] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: VAHZZ wrote: You are a horrible sniper Aeon. Where's your sniper video? I don't upload videos because I am broke and I don't have capture cards or video editing software. I am not the sniper I used to be, back in beta i was great, not as good as Zan and Gem, but still great. Now, I am but a shell of my former sniper self. Also, gg. Gg, you horrible punk you. You got taco'd. My life is for taco.
LUGMOS Corrosive Synergy No Context 4	Posted - 2015.07.16 15:58:00 - [48] - Quote I loved sniping back in beta. You could support snipe just behind your frontline. HD worked Wiggle wiggle wasn't a thing Scouts were the best snipers A lot has changed... I am the Anti-FoTM Fear my Cal Assault and Amarr Scout!
Mikel Arias Challengers 506 141	Posted - 2015.07.16 16:02:00 - [49] - Quote I disagree with snipers being useless or that the sniper rifle should be removed. Sentinels may be difficult to take out, but well, they are SENTINELS, they should take a lot of damage so they should survive 1-2 shots and if they are smart they will hide. If they dont, they do get killed. Besides, sniping is really useful if you know where to place yourself, and of course, you need to know how to choose your target and you need to have patience. Actually, patience might be all you need; eventually everyone make the mistake of staying still for a moment and thats when you get a headshot. If you hurry to shoot you just let them know that you are there, waiting for their mistake, and that wont happen once they know they are being targeted. Also, you can try to predict where they are going and aim there, thats how I get most headshots.
Vesta Opalus Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 883	Posted - 2015.07.16 17:13:00 - [50] - Quote Nothing will change for snipers until the community gets over this obsession with making redline snipers suffer. Not to mention that people can still redline snipe with rail turret tanks and forge guns and one shot just about anything WITH AV capability to boot. Even though removing sway doesnt help them at all, even though they are mostly ineffective and easy to countersnipe, even though the mechanics of sniper rifles basically force snipers into the redline for enough safety and stability to fire a single accurate shot, etc. Fun fact: redline snipers will never stop. You cant change the equation and eliminate them without getting rid of sniping or the redline altogether. What you can do is change mechanics to make field sniping viable and actually useful. Remove or dramatically reduce sway, increase sniper damage at closer ranges, fix scanning so that the only field sniping suit that is viable isnt the Cal and Gal scouts because of the aweful 200+ meter active scans hitting everything on the damn map, and so on and so forth.

CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 3	Posted - 2015.07.16 17:36:00 - [51] - Quote " tape a magnifying glass to the center of your screen " That's a brilliant idea! The scope for my super sniper that I always wanted! Naww Aeon you so full of sick ideas, I shall reward you with a vote (assuming you are running for CPM 2?) I just want to make something very clear - I love the forge gun in this game. It might not always be the most competitive weapon but really there are few weapons that are more rewarding or as fun to use once you know how. "Madness how we turned our common-ground into a battle-ground.." - Essa
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 3	Posted - 2015.07.16 17:40:00 - [52] - Quote Double post for a very important point (imho) The forge does NOT need any nerfs at all. It is the sniper rifles that need help. Removing / reducing the sway and giving them the ability to shoot while standing comes to mind. "Madness how we turned our common-ground into a battle-ground.." - Essa
Mikel Arias Challengers 506 142	Posted - 2015.07.16 17:59:00 - [53] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: " tape a magnifying glass to the center of your screen " That's a brilliant idea! The scope for my super sniper that I always wanted! Naww Aeon you so full of sick ideas, I shall reward you with a vote (assuming you are running for CPM 2?) I just want to make something very clear - I love the forge gun in this game. It might not always be the most competitive weapon but really there are few weapons that are more rewarding or as fun to use once you know how. I believe the plasma cannon is more fun.
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 11	Posted - 2015.07.16 20:57:00 - [54] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: Double post for a very important point (imho) The forge does NOT need any nerfs at all. It is the sniper rifles that need help. Removing / reducing the sway and giving them the ability to shoot while standing comes to mind. Again, no-one is saying that Forge Guns need to be nerfed. The only thing that is being said about Forge Guns is that they are better than Sniper Rifles in many ways. And before you say "charge-up" or "mag count" go ahead and take a good hard look at the Charge Sniper Rifle. CPM2 Candidate Design A SKIN 2
Zan Azikuchi G.R.A.V.E The Ditanian Alliance 247	Posted - 2015.07.16 22:37:00 - [55] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: CommanderBolt wrote: Double post for a very important point (imho) The forge does NOT need any nerfs at all. It is the sniper rifles that need help. Removing / reducing the sway and giving them the ability to shoot while standing comes to mind. Again, no-one is saying that Forge Guns need to be nerfed. The only thing that is being said about Forge Guns is that they are better than Sniper Rifles in many ways. And before you say "charge-up" or "mag count" go ahead and take a good hard look at the Charge Sniper Rifle. Lol, scrub trying to keep his weapon untouched, admirable to say the least.... Aeon is correct though, FG is far better than SR, only problem's are, is that the sniper can't defend himself proper with a sidearm, SR's have no good spot's other than red line, sniper's can't shoot into objective's unless map allow's for it (every map should allow SR's to hit into the objective). When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
Russell Franklin Random Gunz Rise Of Legion. 21	Posted - 2015.07.17 00:36:00 - [56] - Quote I think snipers need a range finder built into the scope in order to get an accurate reading on how far away a target is. Never sniped before so i don't know if this is already featured with the weapon or even talked about. I think that would be a step in the right direction if added along with a slight damage buff. Dedicated forge gunner and vehicle removal specialist
Tyjus Vacca Valor Coalition 348	Posted - 2015.07.17 01:58:00 - [57] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Let's go ahead and watch a four minute comedy video on why you should just tape a magnifying glass to the center of your screen and use a Forge Gun instead of using a sniper rifle. I'll never understand the hypocrisy of how an immobile sniper killing people with five or seven shots from 400m away is somehow more OP than a sentinel with weapon/explosive damage resistance with a one-shot-everything weapon at 400m who still has the benefit of mobility. Apparently the deciding factor in whether or not either of those are OP is a scope, which is just ridiculous. I'm sure there's going to be a boatload of "you suck" and "git gud scrub" - fact of the matter is that a Forge Gun can do just as much if not better (AV capability, mobility). And because of that, in combination with Dust 514's abyssmal map design which puts a tower with clear view on two objectives, you get situations like the above video where it is nigh impossible to get them off of a roof without an orbital strike - which can be difficult to attain at times. Proper gameplay balance is 3,500+ Warpoints to get an Orbital strike to deal with a handful of dudes that can totally cover just two objectives, I guess. This really is stupid. Don't get me wrong, I'm no Gem Cutter (I don't have a zoom function on my TV) but I'm certainly not the worst sniper in the game either. Apart from having to deal with shoddy hit detection and the fact that the Efficiency Rating in the lower-right will lie to you (says headshot damage but it really means a miss) the sniper rifle just CANNOT do enough damage to make it worth while at times, even with the 300% headshot bonus. If a Sentinel can survive -SEVERAL- headshots and still lay you out with a single blast from a Forge Gun then what point is there to using a sniper rifle in the first place? All of this is demonstrated with this video here, right down to the efficiency rating being just broken and the fact that even a bad Sentinel can out-class a sniper any day, even if that sniper has the initiative. Had I done the smart thing a year ago and specced into Sentinels when they were OP as hell, I would be able to put the dude down in one shot using the exact same weapon he's using because.... #balance? Here's a post by Skyline Lonewolf (another well known sniper) who echoes this sentiment. Honestly, at this point, I'm just going to begrudgingly advocate that sniper rifles be removed from the game entirely because they serve no purpose any longer, their role on the battlefield has been neutered, and there is no way to make them viable without the entirety of the forums throwing a conniption fit. There is little to no support of sniper rifles - either through balancing or role mechanics. Symbiotic Forks already took off back in February, even despite having an officer sniper rifle named after him. Gem Cutter took off years ago, and a lot of the more memorable snipers beyond that have left for greener pastures. I mean, honestly, how many of you actually look at someone on the player list and think, "Sniper" anymore? And as much as I don't want this to be a rant thread, what honest to god discussion points can there be when the mass majority won't even hear proposals on how to make snipers better? What discussion can there be if the only thing the forums, CPM, and Devs seem to be willing to consider is a) nerf the sniper rifle b) fiddle with things that don't matter to the sniper rifle at all? All I'm asking is to be proven wrong, here. EDIT: Specced into Forge Guns. Considering how well I did with my first time using it since Closed Beta, I think I'll keep it. tbh a sniper totally wins against a forge gunner but Forge Gunners win against a sniper..... if you want a chance of killing them use either charge or thales, its 2 headshots (5 body) to kill a tanked sentinal with std sniper sniper changes !!? O_o
Tyjus Vacca Valor Coalition 348	Posted - 2015.07.17 02:02:00 - [58] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: CommanderBolt wrote: Double post for a very important point (imho) The forge does NOT need any nerfs at all. It is the sniper rifles that need help. Removing / reducing the sway and giving them the ability to shoot while standing comes to mind. Again, no-one is saying that Forge Guns need to be nerfed. The only thing that is being said about Forge Guns is that they are better than Sniper Rifles in many ways. And before you say "charge-up" or "mag count" go ahead and take a good hard look at the Charge Sniper Rifle. IMHO both need to be buffed forge guns are not nearly effective enough towards tanks, and snipers towards infantry... sniper changes !!? O_o
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 2	Posted - 2015.07.17 06:31:00 - [59] - Quote RUMOR CONTROL - FACTS HERE: - Tactical Sniper Rifle range 350m - Charge-type sniper rifle range 400m (including SYMB's) - Basic type sniper rifle range 450m (including Thale's and Roden) - Sniper rifle has no optimal or damage falloff, meaning full damage until max range, then impossible to hit - Forge Gun range 300m, all models (disclaimer, have never fired a shot on any officer forge lol so can't personally verify. Although there is no indication of greater range) - Forge Guns have no optimal or damage falloff, meaning full damage until max range, then impossible to hit KERO-TRADER is my official Eve character for Dust trading.
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 2	Posted - 2015.07.17 06:34:00 - [60] - Quote Now comments themselves: Forge Guns are frigin' near OP murdertools. Forge sniping is too easy. The best way to address forges sniping infantry would be to make the forge shake real instead of cosmetic one (I've been asking this for two years now) Second thing what the forges need (and sniper rifles btw) is them to have optimal range, then falloff where damage output gradually deceases KERO-TRADER is my official Eve character for Dust trading.

KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 2	Posted - 2015.07.17 06:43:00 - [61] - Quote About current cosmetic only - shake VS proposed real forge shake: There's been heavy threads earlier by King Kobrah here. Still the good way to handle forge sniping would be to fix the cosmetic only charge up shake. SUGGESTION: Make forge shots go where the sight is while shaking And all forges should shake again while holding a charge (maybe maybe not breach) It is supposed to be a balancing factor for aiming, but it is just the shake of the gun and sights - the shot still goes dead center. Which can be abused by having tape/monitor feature - but in skilled hands even that is not required. Hence the forge sniping issue. Having the shake REALLY affect where the forge shot goes does the following: - It would still be possible to kill infantry at extreme range, but it would take both skill and a bit of luck. Not just to have red reticle. - Far better way than to nerf forge damage at range, that would make it purely close up weapon =( - Far better way than to nerf forge damage vs infantry, that shot should still kill. And nerfing vs infantry only would make fg users even more defenseless against AR infantry in close - Shake would make it harder to lock down the entire map by forging from top of skyscrapers. It would still be possible to harass and occasionally kill, even tanks, but not godlike total domination - Forge would be still very powerful as it would still be easy to hit up to medium range (AV especially). AV implications of NOT having the shake: - It has been is very hard to balance dropships as they have to face anti HAV weapons full on, even at extreme ranges. Shake would make DSs life easier (note that because that has NOT been the case, DSs were given protection by adding a lot of HP. Which in turn partially lead to swarm ineffectivity, before swarm rebuff... Everything affects everything.) - Forge ranges were nerfed hard from 600m to 300m. The reason for the nerf was: Too effective at extreme range. Killing tanks, DSs and countersniping redline infantry. KERO-TRADER is my official Eve character for Dust trading.
Lex DOCIEL What The French 56	Posted - 2015.07.17 07:17:00 - [62] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: About current cosmetic only - shake VS proposed real forge shake: There's been heavy threads earlier by King Kobrah here. Still the good way to handle forge sniping would be to fix the cosmetic only charge up shake. SUGGESTION: Make forge shots go where the sight is while shaking And all forges should shake again while holding a charge (maybe maybe not breach) It is supposed to be a balancing factor for aiming, but it is just the shake of the gun and sights - the shot still goes dead center. Which can be abused by having tape/monitor feature - but in skilled hands even that is not required. Hence the forge sniping issue. Having the shake REALLY affect where the forge shot goes does the following: - It would still be possible to kill infantry at extreme range, but it would take both skill and a bit of luck. Not just to have red reticle. - Far better way than to nerf forge damage at range, that would make it purely close up weapon =( - Far better way than to nerf forge damage vs infantry, that shot should still kill. And nerfing vs infantry only would make fg users even more defenseless against AR infantry in close - Shake would make it harder to lock down the entire map by forging from top of skyscrapers. It would still be possible to harass and occasionally kill, even tanks, but not godlike total domination - Forge would be still very powerful as it would still be easy to hit up to medium range (AV especially). AV implications of NOT having the shake: - It has been is very hard to balance dropships as they have to face anti HAV weapons full on, even at extreme ranges. Shake would make DSs life easier (note that because that has NOT been the case, DSs were given protection by adding a lot of HP. Which in turn partially lead to swarm ineffectivity, before swarm rebuff... Everything affects everything.) - Forge ranges were nerfed hard from 600m to 300m. The reason for the nerf was: Too effective at extreme range. Killing tanks, DSs and countersniping redline infantry. I think we do have a reliable solution here. Both realistic in a RP point of view, and actually solving all the forge OP issues. Proud player of the most strategic and addictive massively-multiplayer FPS in the world.
Sequal's Back Dead Man's Game 680	Posted - 2015.07.17 07:22:00 - [63] - Quote Wait wait wait Aeon, I partialy agree with you on what you said, but how is that you need 6 or 7 sniper shots to kill one guy? One headshot and you OS anything ! Edit: btw, I consider all snipers as ***** licking cowards, so you'd rather don't have my POV on this topic. WON'T YOU PLEASE TAKE ME HOME !
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 11	Posted - 2015.07.17 07:35:00 - [64] - Quote Sequal's Back wrote: Wait wait wait Aeon, I partialy agree with you on what you said, but how is that you need 6 or 7 sniper shots to kill one guy? One headshot and you OS anything ! Edit: btw, I consider all snipers as ***** licking cowards, so you'd rather don't have my POV on this topic. A Caldari Commando with all skills level 5, Thale's Sniper Rifle, and three Complex Light Damage Mods cannot one-shot a Gallente Sentinel due to the 15% rail-damage reduction and high EHP factor. If Protofits is to be believed than a Gallente Sentinel would survive a shot from that CalMando with 15 HP to spare - while miniscule and not much to go off of, it does infact survive and that is without any shield/armor increasing modules. But landing a headshot by itself is extraordinarily difficult against a moving target at most ranges. CPM2 Candidate Design A SKIN 2
Commander Noctus Gallente Loyalist 244	Posted - 2015.07.17 07:40:00 - [65] - Quote I am guilty of Forge Sniping. C'mon though, 1 shot blast of death with a rather large area of damage? Who wouldn't love that? Meanwhile the sniper rifle has a smaller area to hit with, and varies 1-5+ shots to kill someone. Why teh eff would I choose that over my smexy Forge? But really though, I think the range should go bye-bye. Give it enough range to snipe tanks that are running away, but not enough to remotely compete with snipers. Gallente User since Jan. 28th, 2013. Touched on every Gallente role since.
Kobain Irish Quiruz Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 5	Posted - 2015.07.17 08:00:00 - [66] - Quote Maybe Next Time, You should get to that tower first with your team and do the same thing But really funny VID Aeon ««------ *Rookie In Training Forum Poster Inbound!* During School Days you'll find me here at the forums
Kobain Irish Quiruz Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 5	Posted - 2015.07.17 08:06:00 - [67] - Quote Jadek Menaheim wrote: No joke, I have a pair of these. My Dad gave them to me. With the zoom feature on my TV, the Dust Menu options, and a mouse and keyboard...they kind of work...except your peripheral vision is non-existent. Lol I want one those, whered you get them Jadek? ««------ *Rookie In Training Forum Poster Inbound!* During School Days you'll find me here at the forums
Sequal's Back Dead Man's Game 681	Posted - 2015.07.17 08:10:00 - [68] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Sequal's Back wrote: Wait wait wait Aeon, I partialy agree with you on what you said, but how is that you need 6 or 7 sniper shots to kill one guy? One headshot and you OS anything ! Edit: btw, I consider all snipers as ***** licking cowards, so you'd rather don't have my POV on this topic. A Caldari Commando with all skills level 5, Thale's Sniper Rifle, and three Complex Light Damage Mods cannot one-shot a Gallente Sentinel due to the 15% rail-damage reduction and high EHP factor. If Protofits is to be believed than a Gallente Sentinel would survive a shot from that CalMando with 15 HP to spare - while miniscule and not much to go off of, it does infact survive and that is without any shield/armor increasing modules. But landing a headshot by itself is extraordinarily difficult against a moving target at most ranges. Ho but I didn't say that being a sniper is "skilless". I'm a really bad sniper myself and I don't judge skill. I hate snipers because they don't actualy fight the battle 90% of the time, they take almost 0 risk and can still manage to OS ALMOST every suit (except some heavy yeah, but there are many more than 1 or 2 different suits in Dust^^). Thus, they are puss y licking cowards. WON'T YOU PLEASE TAKE ME HOME !
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 7	Posted - 2015.07.17 08:25:00 - [69] - Quote Kobain Irish Quiruz wrote: Jadek Menaheim wrote: No joke, I have a pair of these. My Dad gave them to me. With the zoom feature on my TV, the Dust Menu options, and a mouse and keyboard...they kind of work...except your peripheral vision is non-existent. Lol I want one those, whered you get them Jadek? Looks like you can also pick them up from Amazon. http://www.amazon.com/As-Seen-On-TV-ZM013124/dp/B00DVQF1F4 Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
Kobain Irish Quiruz Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 6	Posted - 2015.07.17 08:30:00 - [70] - Quote Jadek Menaheim wrote: Kobain Irish Quiruz wrote: Jadek Menaheim wrote: No joke, I have a pair of these. My Dad gave them to me. With the zoom feature on my TV, the Dust Menu options, and a mouse and keyboard...they kind of work...except your peripheral vision is non-existent. Lol I want one those, whered you get them Jadek? Looks like you can also pick them up from Amazon. http://www.amazon.com/As-Seen-On-TV-ZM013124/dp/B00DVQF1F4 Thanks! Now I have a reason why I should save up my allowance All I need Is my own account, which is gonna be hard I am Just 14 after all EDIT: Do they work? Or are you campaigning them? ««------ *Rookie In Training Forum Poster Inbound!* During School Days you'll find me here at the forums

Kobain Irish Quiruz Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 6	Posted - 2015.07.17 08:44:00 - [71] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Let's go ahead and watch a four minute comedy video on why you should just tape a magnifying glass to the center of your screen and use a Forge Gun instead of using a sniper rifle. I'll never understand the hypocrisy of how an immobile sniper killing people with five or seven shots from 400m away is somehow more OP than a sentinel with weapon/explosive damage resistance with a one-shot-everything weapon at 400m who still has the benefit of mobility. Apparently the deciding factor in whether or not either of those are OP is a scope, which is just ridiculous. I'm sure there's going to be a boatload of "you suck" and "git gud scrub" - fact of the matter is that a Forge Gun can do just as much if not better (AV capability, mobility). And because of that, in combination with Dust 514's abyssmal map design which puts a tower with clear view on two objectives, you get situations like the above video where it is nigh impossible to get them off of a roof without an orbital strike - which can be difficult to attain at times. Proper gameplay balance is 3,500+ Warpoints to get an Orbital strike to deal with a handful of dudes that can totally cover just two objectives, I guess. This really is stupid. Don't get me wrong, I'm no Gem Cutter (I don't have a zoom function on my TV) but I'm certainly not the worst sniper in the game either. Apart from having to deal with shoddy hit detection and the fact that the Efficiency Rating in the lower-right will lie to you (says headshot damage but it really means a miss) the sniper rifle just CANNOT do enough damage to make it worth while at times, even with the 300% headshot bonus. If a Sentinel can survive -SEVERAL- headshots and still lay you out with a single blast from a Forge Gun then what point is there to using a sniper rifle in the first place? All of this is demonstrated with this video here, right down to the efficiency rating being just broken and the fact that even a bad Sentinel can out-class a sniper any day, even if that sniper has the initiative. Had I done the smart thing a year ago and specced into Sentinels when they were OP as hell, I would be able to put the dude down in one shot using the exact same weapon he's using because.... #balance? Here's a post by Skyline Lonewolf (another well known sniper) who echoes this sentiment. Honestly, at this point, I'm just going to begrudgingly advocate that sniper rifles be removed from the game entirely because they serve no purpose any longer, their role on the battlefield has been neutered, and there is no way to make them viable without the entirety of the forums throwing a conniption fit. There is little to no support of sniper rifles - either through balancing or role mechanics. Symbiotic Forks already took off back in February, even despite having an officer sniper rifle named after him. Gem Cutter took off years ago, and a lot of the more memorable snipers beyond that have left for greener pastures. I mean, honestly, how many of you actually look at someone on the player list and think, "Sniper" anymore? And as much as I don't want this to be a rant thread, what honest to god discussion points can there be when the mass majority won't even hear proposals on how to make snipers better? What discussion can there be if the only thing the forums, CPM, and Devs seem to be willing to consider is a) nerf the sniper rifle b) fiddle with things that don't matter to the sniper rifle at all? All I'm asking is to be proven wrong, here. EDIT: Specced into Forge Guns. Considering how well I did with my first time using it since Closed Beta, I think I'll keep it. Why on Earth would even try too snipe a large group of heavies on a tower with a sniper? Ideally no one would snipe a large group of wearing Power Armor like suits, that can eat a a frikkin 50. Cal in the head like the bullet was a pebble This ain't David and Goliath, this is Dust 514, no matter how good you are or how powerful you're gun is, Sniping a group of sentinels in Dust, Is you Fighting a family of Rhinos, it's impossible too beat ««------ *Rookie In Training Forum Poster Inbound!* During School Days you'll find me here at the forums
SLENDER M4N Xer Cloud Consortium 765	Posted - 2015.07.17 09:10:00 - [72] - Quote Kobain Irish Quiruz wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Let's go ahead and watch a four minute comedy video on why you should just tape a magnifying glass to the center of your screen and use a Forge Gun instead of using a sniper rifle. I'll never understand the hypocrisy of how an immobile sniper killing people with five or seven shots from 400m away is somehow more OP than a sentinel with weapon/explosive damage resistance with a one-shot-everything weapon at 400m who still has the benefit of mobility. Apparently the deciding factor in whether or not either of those are OP is a scope, which is just ridiculous. I'm sure there's going to be a boatload of "you suck" and "git gud scrub" - fact of the matter is that a Forge Gun can do just as much if not better (AV capability, mobility). And because of that, in combination with Dust 514's abyssmal map design which puts a tower with clear view on two objectives, you get situations like the above video where it is nigh impossible to get them off of a roof without an orbital strike - which can be difficult to attain at times. Proper gameplay balance is 3,500+ Warpoints to get an Orbital strike to deal with a handful of dudes that can totally cover just two objectives, I guess. This really is stupid. Don't get me wrong, I'm no Gem Cutter (I don't have a zoom function on my TV) but I'm certainly not the worst sniper in the game either. Apart from having to deal with shoddy hit detection and the fact that the Efficiency Rating in the lower-right will lie to you (says headshot damage but it really means a miss) the sniper rifle just CANNOT do enough damage to make it worth while at times, even with the 300% headshot bonus. If a Sentinel can survive -SEVERAL- headshots and still lay you out with a single blast from a Forge Gun then what point is there to using a sniper rifle in the first place? All of this is demonstrated with this video here, right down to the efficiency rating being just broken and the fact that even a bad Sentinel can out-class a sniper any day, even if that sniper has the initiative. Had I done the smart thing a year ago and specced into Sentinels when they were OP as hell, I would be able to put the dude down in one shot using the exact same weapon he's using because.... #balance? Here's a post by Skyline Lonewolf (another well known sniper) who echoes this sentiment. Honestly, at this point, I'm just going to begrudgingly advocate that sniper rifles be removed from the game entirely because they serve no purpose any longer, their role on the battlefield has been neutered, and there is no way to make them viable without the entirety of the forums throwing a conniption fit. There is little to no support of sniper rifles - either through balancing or role mechanics. Symbiotic Forks already took off back in February, even despite having an officer sniper rifle named after him. Gem Cutter took off years ago, and a lot of the more memorable snipers beyond that have left for greener pastures. I mean, honestly, how many of you actually look at someone on the player list and think, "Sniper" anymore? And as much as I don't want this to be a rant thread, what honest to god discussion points can there be when the mass majority won't even hear proposals on how to make snipers better? What discussion can there be if the only thing the forums, CPM, and Devs seem to be willing to consider is a) nerf the sniper rifle b) fiddle with things that don't matter to the sniper rifle at all? All I'm asking is to be proven wrong, here. EDIT: Specced into Forge Guns. Considering how well I did with my first time using it since Closed Beta, I think I'll keep it. Why on Earth would even try too snipe a large group of heavies on a tower with a sniper? Ideally no one would snipe a large group of wearing Power Armor like suits, that can eat a a frikkin 50. Cal in the head like the bullet was a pebble This ain't David and Goliath, this is Dust 514, no matter how good you are or how powerful you're gun is, Sniping a group of sentinels in Dust, Is you Fighting a family of Rhinos, it's impossible too beat GJR once took out 6 Protobears with his bear hands. Nothing is impossible. Get ready Jadek. Mrs. Menahiem is waiting!
Kobain Irish Quiruz Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 6	Posted - 2015.07.17 09:56:00 - [73] - Quote SLENDER M4N, Can you kill a group of Minmatar Proto Scout armed with Kinetic Katalyzers and Shotguns at close range with a Forge Gun? Can you live a full frontal Assault of Proto Amarr Assault Class Wielding 5 tier stuff by yourself? Can YOU, Survive a Wave of HAVs by Yourself, all armed with Blasters surrounding you as a heavy with a Heavy Machine Gun? And We're Talking about Snipers, Not Barehands Sir.... ««------ *Rookie In Training Forum Poster Inbound!* During School Days you'll find me here at the forums
Mikel Arias Challengers 506 143	Posted - 2015.07.17 14:04:00 - [74] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Sequal's Back wrote: Wait wait wait Aeon, I partialy agree with you on what you said, but how is that you need 6 or 7 sniper shots to kill one guy? One headshot and you OS anything ! Edit: btw, I consider all snipers as ***** licking cowards, so you'd rather don't have my POV on this topic. A Caldari Commando with all skills level 5, Thale's Sniper Rifle, and three Complex Light Damage Mods cannot one-shot a Gallente Sentinel due to the 15% rail-damage reduction and high EHP factor. If Protofits is to be believed than a Gallente Sentinel would survive a shot from that CalMando with 15 HP to spare - while miniscule and not much to go off of, it does infact survive and that is without any shield/armor increasing modules. But landing a headshot by itself is extraordinarily difficult against a moving target at most ranges. Its not that difficult. If the guy you want to kill is moving then try to predict its movements. When they are running straight is quite easy to get the headshot. It might be a bit harder when they are moving in circles or erratically, but even then you can get a headshot if you hace patience and wait the right moment.
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 11	Posted - 2015.07.17 20:02:00 - [75] - Quote Mikel Arias wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Sequal's Back wrote: Wait wait wait Aeon, I partialy agree with you on what you said, but how is that you need 6 or 7 sniper shots to kill one guy? One headshot and you OS anything ! Edit: btw, I consider all snipers as ***** licking cowards, so you'd rather don't have my POV on this topic. A Caldari Commando with all skills level 5, Thale's Sniper Rifle, and three Complex Light Damage Mods cannot one-shot a Gallente Sentinel due to the 15% rail-damage reduction and high EHP factor. If Protofits is to be believed than a Gallente Sentinel would survive a shot from that CalMando with 15 HP to spare - while miniscule and not much to go off of, it does infact survive and that is without any shield/armor increasing modules. But landing a headshot by itself is extraordinarily difficult against a moving target at most ranges. Its not that difficult. If the guy you want to kill is moving then try to predict its movements. When they are running straight is quite easy to get the headshot. It might be a bit harder when they are moving in circles or erratically, but even then you can get a headshot if you hace patience and wait the right moment. S'why there are so many elite headshotting snipers running amok in the game, right? Lol, if it were easy everyone would do it. CPM2 Candidate Design A SKIN 2
Mikel Arias Challengers 506 144	Posted - 2015.07.17 20:16:00 - [76] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Mikel Arias wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Sequal's Back wrote: Wait wait wait Aeon, I partialy agree with you on what you said, but how is that you need 6 or 7 sniper shots to kill one guy? One headshot and you OS anything ! Edit: btw, I consider all snipers as ***** licking cowards, so you'd rather don't have my POV on this topic. A Caldari Commando with all skills level 5, Thale's Sniper Rifle, and three Complex Light Damage Mods cannot one-shot a Gallente Sentinel due to the 15% rail-damage reduction and high EHP factor. If Protofits is to be believed than a Gallente Sentinel would survive a shot from that CalMando with 15 HP to spare - while miniscule and not much to go off of, it does infact survive and that is without any shield/armor increasing modules. But landing a headshot by itself is extraordinarily difficult against a moving target at most ranges. Its not that difficult. If the guy you want to kill is moving then try to predict its movements. When they are running straight is quite easy to get the headshot. It might be a bit harder when they are moving in circles or erratically, but even then you can get a headshot if you hace patience and wait the right moment. S'why there are so many elite headshotting snipers running amok in the game, right? Lol, if it were easy everyone would do it. Again, patience. Thats what most people lack.
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 11	Posted - 2015.07.17 20:46:00 - [77] - Quote Mikel Arias wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Mikel Arias wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Sequal's Back wrote: Wait wait wait Aeon, I partialy agree with you on what you said, but how is that you need 6 or 7 sniper shots to kill one guy? One headshot and you OS anything ! Edit: btw, I consider all snipers as ***** licking cowards, so you'd rather don't have my POV on this topic. A Caldari Commando with all skills level 5, Thale's Sniper Rifle, and three Complex Light Damage Mods cannot one-shot a Gallente Sentinel due to the 15% rail-damage reduction and high EHP factor. If Protofits is to be believed than a Gallente Sentinel would survive a shot from that CalMando with 15 HP to spare - while miniscule and not much to go off of, it does infact survive and that is without any shield/armor increasing modules. But landing a headshot by itself is extraordinarily difficult against a moving target at most ranges. Its not that difficult. If the guy you want to kill is moving then try to predict its movements. When they are running straight is quite easy to get the headshot. It might be a bit harder when they are moving in circles or erratically, but even then you can get a headshot if you hace patience and wait the right moment. S'why there are so many elite headshotting snipers running amok in the game, right? Lol, if it were easy everyone would do it. Again, patience. Thats what most people lack. Patience is a factor, sure, but too much patience is a bad thing for snipers. Without 100% guaranteed kills on headshots you'll wind up putting a bullet in someone's head just for them to run back into cover and by gypped out of a kill despite all that patience, despite all that effort, and despite all the risks of sitting perfectly still with your silhouette gleaming in the sunlight. Look, all I want is to have a dedicated role on the battlefield here. That can't be much to ask. I just want a clear cut ideology of what the Sniper's role on the battlefield is and I want the balance spectrum and design to hallmark on that role. If it is meant to kill people with one precise, accurate shot, than why shouldn't a headshot be a 100% guaranteed kill? If it is meant to support the team, why not give us the tools to do so? That's all I'm asking. CPM2 Candidate Design A SKIN 2
Reign Omega T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K General Tso's Alliance 1	Posted - 2015.07.17 21:03:00 - [78] - Quote For me the fundamental difference between the two is... when I get sniped I think "Eat my dck you camping arseclown", and when I get forged at any range I think "That's a crafty fat bastid". Something about getting sniped just doesn't sit well with me in any game. Lazy good for nothing snipers hiding on a rock somewhere eating nachos.... (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!! The Incursions are back... and they're golden baby!
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 11	Posted - 2015.07.17 21:06:00 - [79] - Quote Reign Omega wrote: For me the fundamental difference between the two is... when I get sniped I think "Eat my dck you camping arseclown", and when I get forged at any range I think "That's a crafty fat bastid". Something about getting sniped just doesn't sit well with me in any game. Lazy good for nothing snipers hiding on a rock somewhere eating nachos.... So the psychology difference of being shot several times by someone with a scope as opposed to one round without a scope..? Lol. What would put a sniper rifle in the same category as 'that's a crafty bastid'? CPM2 Candidate Design A SKIN 2
Zan Azikuchi G.R.A.V.E The Ditanian Alliance 247	Posted - 2015.07.17 21:16:00 - [80] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Reign Omega wrote: For me the fundamental difference between the two is... when I get sniped I think "Eat my dck you camping arseclown", and when I get forged at any range I think "That's a crafty fat bastid". Something about getting sniped just doesn't sit well with me in any game. Lazy good for nothing snipers hiding on a rock somewhere eating nachos.... So the psychology difference of being shot several times by someone with a scope as opposed to one round without a scope..? Lol. What would put a sniper rifle in the same category as 'that's a crafty bastid'? That's the mentality of anyone who isn't a sniper, Aeon, you're not gonna be able to appeal to anyone here. Not until they've skewered the role even further and bastardized it more. EDIT: When it come's down to it, it's always "My Poor THIS can't survive a cowardly man helping his team, nerf it!". When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.

Mikel Arias Challengers 506 145	Posted - 2015.07.17 21:31:00 - [81] - Quote To Aeon; I get your point with one headshot, one kill. Now, this is usually how it goes for me, except with heavys (altough sometimes I do get it). Of course, I have to fit like 3 damage modifiers, if I dont I cant get even one kill. Now, if I dont get the headshot is harder to get a kill in one shot, thats true. Also, something I think its important and this is my opinion; lets say that you shoot with the sniper rifle and you get the kill. You shoot again and other kill. And again, and again and again. People start complaining because its OP. Like the remote eplosives. Now, I get you are saying it needs to be looked up and I respect that, really, however, I see sniper rifles a lot when the game is so kind to inform who got killed by who.
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 11	Posted - 2015.07.17 21:35:00 - [82] - Quote Mikel Arias wrote: To Aeon; I get your point with one headshot, one kill. Now, this is usually how it goes for me, except with heavys (altough sometimes I do get it). Of course, I have to fit like 3 damage modifiers, if I dont I cant get even one kill. Now, if I dont get the headshot is harder to get a kill in one shot, thats true. Also, something I think its important and this is my opinion; lets say that you shoot with the sniper rifle and you get the kill. You shoot again and other kill. And again, and again and again. People start complaining because its OP. Like the remote eplosives. Now, I get you are saying it needs to be looked up and I respect that, really, however, I see sniper rifles a lot when the game is so kind to inform who got killed by who. But, again, it's the whole weapon philosophy. Like, that is literally what that entire weapon's objective, design, and purpose is. There is no other point to a sniper rifle at all. Rail-guns, Plasma Cannons, Forge Guns are all weapons that can one-shot someone on a hit. Should we add bullet travel time to the Sniper Rifle? Would that somehow make it less OP; if it were not hit scan? Even though it completely defies logic (it's a freaggin rail gun after all) CPM2 Candidate Design A SKIN 2
Zan Azikuchi G.R.A.V.E The Ditanian Alliance 247	Posted - 2015.07.17 21:45:00 - [83] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Mikel Arias wrote: To Aeon; I get your point with one headshot, one kill. Now, this is usually how it goes for me, except with heavys (altough sometimes I do get it). Of course, I have to fit like 3 damage modifiers, if I dont I cant get even one kill. Now, if I dont get the headshot is harder to get a kill in one shot, thats true. Also, something I think its important and this is my opinion; lets say that you shoot with the sniper rifle and you get the kill. You shoot again and other kill. And again, and again and again. People start complaining because its OP. Like the remote eplosives. Now, I get you are saying it needs to be looked up and I respect that, really, however, I see sniper rifles a lot when the game is so kind to inform who got killed by who. But, again, it's the whole weapon philosophy. Like, that is literally what that entire weapon's objective, design, and purpose is. There is no other point to a sniper rifle at all. Rail-guns, Plasma Cannons, Forge Guns are all weapons that can one-shot someone on a hit. Should we add bullet travel time to the Sniper Rifle? Would that somehow make it less OP; if it were not hit scan? Even though it completely defies logic (it's a freaggin rail gun after all) Problem with travel time is wiggle wiggle unless the muzzle velocity is high enough which could potentially make it balanced, but when you'd have to add travel time to everything else, because then, it really wouldn't make sense for an AR to hit instantly in comparison to a RR which should, for all intent an purposes, would instantly reach the intended target. However, then you'd have to rebalance ALL the weapon's around muzzle velocity and damage, which could better balance out the game, as slow muzzle velocity and short range weapon's would have more damage, than long range, high muzzle velocity weapon's. When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
Mikel Arias Challengers 506 145	Posted - 2015.07.17 22:10:00 - [84] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Mikel Arias wrote: To Aeon; I get your point with one headshot, one kill. Now, this is usually how it goes for me, except with heavys (altough sometimes I do get it). Of course, I have to fit like 3 damage modifiers, if I dont I cant get even one kill. Now, if I dont get the headshot is harder to get a kill in one shot, thats true. Also, something I think its important and this is my opinion; lets say that you shoot with the sniper rifle and you get the kill. You shoot again and other kill. And again, and again and again. People start complaining because its OP. Like the remote eplosives. Now, I get you are saying it needs to be looked up and I respect that, really, however, I see sniper rifles a lot when the game is so kind to inform who got killed by who. But, again, it's the whole weapon philosophy. Like, that is literally what that entire weapon's objective, design, and purpose is. There is no other point to a sniper rifle at all. Rail-guns, Plasma Cannons, Forge Guns are all weapons that can one-shot someone on a hit. Should we add bullet travel time to the Sniper Rifle? Would that somehow make it less OP; if it were not hit scan? Even though it completely defies logic (it's a freaggin rail gun after all) Logic in Dust is not a very good argument, you know? Take the shotgun for example. If you shoot someone in their face they should die, and yet the heavies take it.
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 11	Posted - 2015.07.17 22:14:00 - [85] - Quote Zan Azikuchi wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Mikel Arias wrote: To Aeon; I get your point with one headshot, one kill. Now, this is usually how it goes for me, except with heavys (altough sometimes I do get it). Of course, I have to fit like 3 damage modifiers, if I dont I cant get even one kill. Now, if I dont get the headshot is harder to get a kill in one shot, thats true. Also, something I think its important and this is my opinion; lets say that you shoot with the sniper rifle and you get the kill. You shoot again and other kill. And again, and again and again. People start complaining because its OP. Like the remote eplosives. Now, I get you are saying it needs to be looked up and I respect that, really, however, I see sniper rifles a lot when the game is so kind to inform who got killed by who. But, again, it's the whole weapon philosophy. Like, that is literally what that entire weapon's objective, design, and purpose is. There is no other point to a sniper rifle at all. Rail-guns, Plasma Cannons, Forge Guns are all weapons that can one-shot someone on a hit. Should we add bullet travel time to the Sniper Rifle? Would that somehow make it less OP; if it were not hit scan? Even though it completely defies logic (it's a freaggin rail gun after all) Problem with travel time is wiggle wiggle unless the muzzle velocity is high enough which could potentially make it balanced, but when you'd have to add travel time to everything else, because then, it really wouldn't make sense for an AR to hit instantly in comparison to a RR which should, for all intent an purposes, would instantly reach the intended target. However, then you'd have to rebalance ALL the weapon's around muzzle velocity and damage, which could better balance out the game, as slow muzzle velocity and short range weapon's would have more damage, than long range, high muzzle velocity weapon's. I get that, s'why I'm hesitant to propose or advocate for it. I'm just curious as to what we can do here because, honestly, after I picked up the Assault Forge Gun I've been having a -MUCH- easier time dealing with infantry and, consequently, a much better time dealing with vehicles as well. Incidentally I also get a lot less hate mail. Thing is, I -want- to use the Sniper Rifle CPM2 Candidate Design A SKIN 2
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.07.17 23:43:00 - [86] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Mikel Arias wrote: To Aeon; I get your point with one headshot, one kill. Now, this is usually how it goes for me, except with heavys (altough sometimes I do get it). Of course, I have to fit like 3 damage modifiers, if I dont I cant get even one kill. Now, if I dont get the headshot is harder to get a kill in one shot, thats true. Also, something I think its important and this is my opinion; lets say that you shoot with the sniper rifle and you get the kill. You shoot again and other kill. And again, and again and again. People start complaining because its OP. Like the remote eplosives. Now, I get you are saying it needs to be looked up and I respect that, really, however, I see sniper rifles a lot when the game is so kind to inform who got killed by who. But, again, it's the whole weapon philosophy. Like, that is literally what that entire weapon's objective, design, and purpose is. There is no other point to a sniper rifle at all. Rail-guns, Plasma Cannons, Forge Guns are all weapons that can one-shot someone on a hit. Should we add bullet travel time to the Sniper Rifle? Would that somehow make it less OP; if it were not hit scan? Even though it completely defies logic (it's a freaggin rail gun after all) By that argument the Forge gun should be hitscan, not 500 m/s. It is a freaggin rail gun after all. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 11	Posted - 2015.07.17 23:44:00 - [87] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Mikel Arias wrote: To Aeon; I get your point with one headshot, one kill. Now, this is usually how it goes for me, except with heavys (altough sometimes I do get it). Of course, I have to fit like 3 damage modifiers, if I dont I cant get even one kill. Now, if I dont get the headshot is harder to get a kill in one shot, thats true. Also, something I think its important and this is my opinion; lets say that you shoot with the sniper rifle and you get the kill. You shoot again and other kill. And again, and again and again. People start complaining because its OP. Like the remote eplosives. Now, I get you are saying it needs to be looked up and I respect that, really, however, I see sniper rifles a lot when the game is so kind to inform who got killed by who. But, again, it's the whole weapon philosophy. Like, that is literally what that entire weapon's objective, design, and purpose is. There is no other point to a sniper rifle at all. Rail-guns, Plasma Cannons, Forge Guns are all weapons that can one-shot someone on a hit. Should we add bullet travel time to the Sniper Rifle? Would that somehow make it less OP; if it were not hit scan? Even though it completely defies logic (it's a freaggin rail gun after all) By that argument the Forge gun should be hitscan, not 500 m/s. It is a freaggin rail gun after all. I'm not disagreeing. CPM2 Candidate Design A SKIN 2
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.07.17 23:53:00 - [88] - Quote the problem with comparing the forge to the sniper is the weapons do entirely different things, and don't behave the same way. TTK on a forge gun from pulling the trigger to discharge is at minimum 2.25 seconds. It is never less. One of the things no one acknowledges is the charge time in the comparisons, of which the charge sniper is the only comparable situation. I'll be the first to admit. I only counter-snipe. But I use a sniper rifle (and a crapton of damage mods on a calmando) to do it. But comparing the function of the forge gun to the sniper is rather akin to comparing the flavor of apples and pants. there's very little similarity, and the sniper used to be functionally more lethal to infantry. The forge gun used to be the comedy option, not the preference. What changed? I'm banking on the craptastic framerate and lag-stutter. The jittery-jerky movement in the end of the reticle, combined with the lack of inertia really does a number on the efficiency of the sniper, where in other games (which I still suck at sniping in) don't have as much of an issue HITTING, whereas just landing a body shot with a DUST sniper can be like pulling teeth. But my personal issues with it seem to be framerate stutter. Your experiences may differ. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 11	Posted - 2015.07.17 23:57:00 - [89] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: the problem with comparing the forge to the sniper is the weapons do entirely different things, and don't behave the same way. TTK on a forge gun from pulling the trigger to discharge is at minimum 2.25 seconds. It is never less. One of the things no one acknowledges is the charge time in the comparisons, of which the charge sniper is the only comparable situation. I'll be the first to admit. I only counter-snipe. But I use a sniper rifle (and a crapton of damage mods on a calmando) to do it. But comparing the function of the forge gun to the sniper is rather akin to comparing the flavor of apples and pants. there's very little similarity, and the sniper used to be functionally more lethal to infantry. The forge gun used to be the comedy option, not the preference. What changed? I'm banking on the craptastic framerate and lag-stutter. The jittery-jerky movement in the end of the reticle, combined with the lack of inertia really does a number on the efficiency of the sniper, where in other games (which I still suck at sniping in) don't have as much of an issue HITTING, whereas just landing a body shot with a DUST sniper can be like pulling teeth. But my personal issues with it seem to be framerate stutter. Your experiences may differ. Well, if we're pulling 'Charge Time' as a factor then we also have to pull in the time it takes to crouch and let the sniper rifle finish swaying before it balances out and lets you actually aim (that sway is ridiculous at first). I dunno the exact time for that, but I think they're comparable in that way at least. CPM2 Candidate Design A SKIN 2
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 3	Posted - 2015.07.18 13:21:00 - [90] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: CommanderBolt wrote: Double post for a very important point (imho) The forge does NOT need any nerfs at all. It is the sniper rifles that need help. Removing / reducing the sway and giving them the ability to shoot while standing comes to mind. Again, no-one is saying that Forge Guns need to be nerfed. The only thing that is being said about Forge Guns is that they are better than Sniper Rifles in many ways. And before you say "charge-up" or "mag count" go ahead and take a good hard look at the Charge Sniper Rifle. I was just trying to point attention towards buffage of Snipers. I know how some people get on the forums... "oh the forge is a good sniper too... nerf it, nerf it naoo" "Madness how we turned our common-ground into a battle-ground.." - Essa

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.07.18 13:48:00 - [91] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: the problem with comparing the forge to the sniper is the weapons do entirely different things, and don't behave the same way. TTK on a forge gun from pulling the trigger to discharge is at minimum 2.25 seconds. It is never less. One of the things no one acknowledges is the charge time in the comparisons, of which the charge sniper is the only comparable situation. I'll be the first to admit. I only counter-snipe. But I use a sniper rifle (and a crapton of damage mods on a calmando) to do it. But comparing the function of the forge gun to the sniper is rather akin to comparing the flavor of apples and pants. there's very little similarity, and the sniper used to be functionally more lethal to infantry. The forge gun used to be the comedy option, not the preference. What changed? I'm banking on the craptastic framerate and lag-stutter. The jittery-jerky movement in the end of the reticle, combined with the lack of inertia really does a number on the efficiency of the sniper, where in other games (which I still suck at sniping in) don't have as much of an issue HITTING, whereas just landing a body shot with a DUST sniper can be like pulling teeth. But my personal issues with it seem to be framerate stutter. Your experiences may differ. Well, if we're pulling 'Charge Time' as a factor then we also have to pull in the time it takes to crouch and let the sniper rifle finish swaying before it balances out and lets you actually aim (that sway is ridiculous at first). I dunno the exact time for that, but I think they're comparable in that way at least. Only for the first shot on the sniper. Once you're set for sniping, you're set. All you have to do is correct your aim. Forge gun has to start over. I think it's a bad comparison between weapons and can draw people to unintentionally misleading conclusions. I'm pretty sure if I were to d*ck around with a sniper rifle long-term I could probably pin down what's genuinely wrong and right about it. Unfortunately in my experience, screen chop prevents me from gathering more detailed and accurate info. But as I said before, for whatever reason, it's easier to HIT a target with the forge gun. I feel that the problem most likely stems from a lot of little factors that snowball and collide woth bad framerate amd hit detection to create a failcascade. In my experience as a sentinelon the receiving end, even today when the rifles work, they REALLY FKING WORK! and you need to dive for cover or die. Problem is that sniper rifles are dependent upon all of the ckre game aspects not choking on their own vomit moreso than any other gun in the game, save for maybe the laser rifles. Precision weapons suffer the most when core gameplay mechanics in an FPS burp up all over themselves. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.


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