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CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 22311	Posted - 2015.05.12 09:57:00 - [1] - Quote Dear data enthusiasts, here are the average Kill Death Ratios of dropsuits, per race and role for the last 30 days. The reason why I rigged this up, was to check for myself whether Minsaults are as OP as reported, and it doesn't really look like it. What I am surprised at, is actually the overall balance of dropsuits, there are a few outliers, f.ex. Galassaults, but I think it's more the weapon, than the suit. Study, enjoy, comment. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8654	Posted - 2015.05.12 10:09:00 - [2] - Quote I see my calsent isn't nearly as underpowered as everyone claims. IN YOUR FACE, HATERS! We need an emoticon for being smug or gloating. Oh ... right... Uh... first? How the hell did that happen? There's never enough sh**posting going on, so let's add a few more teaspoons of the guy posting after me to the recipie!

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 22314	Posted - 2015.05.12 10:15:00 - [3] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I see my calsent isn't nearly as underpowered as everyone claims. IN YOUR FACE, HATERS! We need an emoticon for being smug or gloating. Oh ... right... Uh... first? How the hell did that happen? Calsent is a sniper fit, there is no guarantee that this dropsuit is effective at killing, only that it is either good at killing or not dying (or both). "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8654	Posted - 2015.05.12 10:18:00 - [4] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: I see my calsent isn't nearly as underpowered as everyone claims. IN YOUR FACE, HATERS! We need an emoticon for being smug or gloating. Oh ... right... Uh... first? How the hell did that happen? Calsent is a sniper fit, there is no guarantee that this dropsuit is effective at killing, only that it is either good at killing or not dying (or both). Oh you just took away my birthday. You bastard. I was thinking it was competitive with the HMG/forge. Silly me. I'm also NOT talking about the 7+KD calmando. I use that one for killing snipers. I mean the proto caldari sentinel that slightly edges out the amsent at proto but is slightly behind at ADV/STD There's never enough sh**posting going on, so let's add a few more teaspoons of the guy posting after me to the recipie!
Miokai Zahou WarRavens 474	Posted - 2015.05.12 10:21:00 - [5] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: I see my calsent isn't nearly as underpowered as everyone claims. IN YOUR FACE, HATERS! We need an emoticon for being smug or gloating. Oh ... right... Uh... first? How the hell did that happen? Calsent is a sniper fit, there is no guarantee that this dropsuit is effective at killing, only that it is either good at killing or not dying (or both). Oh you just took away my birthday. You bastard. I was thinking it was competitive with the HMG/forge. Silly me. I'm also NOT talking about the 7+KD calmando. I use that one for killing snipers. I mean the proto caldari sentinel that slightly edges out the amsent at proto but is slightly behind at ADV/STD Don't underestimate the power of the calsent on all levels as it can be far more effective than the peasant armor users out there (cover, use a lot of cover) Noob isn't really a status, it's the online equivalent of a 5-year old calling you a poopy fart head. pâ+(n+ƒ-ön+ƒ)n+ë
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1047	Posted - 2015.05.12 10:28:00 - [6] - Quote cal assault has the highest rating of all suits... interesting.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 22315	Posted - 2015.05.12 10:36:00 - [7] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: cal assault has the highest rating of all suits... interesting. what the hell fit is on that caldari logi!? that rating is double that of the other racial suits. EDIT: this data is inconclusive. the data is for KDR in a 30 day period. it doesnt show how many battles were fought with each suit. that said if only one guy used a cal commando for one battle to get his 7.22 KDR, then that's what we're looking at here. how many suits were used in this 30 day period for each suit? depends, and I can get it, but I am going to say millions "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 12405	Posted - 2015.05.12 10:37:00 - [8] - Quote Interesting. For all the Caldari assaults constantly whining about their poor shields, Caldari assault is doing great compared to other assaults. And Minmatar assault, which is supposed to be the FOTM according to the forums doesn't seem nearly as OP as people claim. I would love to see the KDR chart for the weapons also. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
Juno Tristan Obscure Reference 602	Posted - 2015.05.12 10:38:00 - [9] - Quote Thanks for the data, one question though,does this exclude pilots? ADS Ramming Revenge! Plasma Cannon Rampage
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1047	Posted - 2015.05.12 10:43:00 - [10] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: cal assault has the highest rating of all suits... interesting. what the hell fit is on that caldari logi!? that rating is double that of the other racial suits. EDIT: this data is inconclusive. the data is for KDR in a 30 day period. it doesnt show how many battles were fought with each suit. that said if only one guy used a cal commando for one battle to get his 7.22 KDR, then that's what we're looking at here. how many suits were used in this 30 day period for each suit? depends, and I can get it, but I am going to say millions I'd really like to get a look at the bigger picture. People say that shields are UP but this data says otherwise. I'm thinking there's more going on but I just don't see it in the data. perhaps a pie chart showing the percentage of all suits used would be sufficient? then we could get a better idea of what people are running if those KDR's are realistic

Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 1174	Posted - 2015.05.12 10:47:00 - [11] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: what the hell fit is on that caldari logi!? that rating is double that of the other racial suits. Snipers. Some brainstorming about why we see so similar kdrs even though performance subjectively varies wildly: I assume there's a non-independency between player behavior and suit power. Players will only use a suit of tier x if they can manage a kdr (or 'performance') of y with it. If certain suits only achieve this performance in very small nieches then the suit is consumed less, rather than having a lower kdr. Basically players are adjusting usage to fit for a certain desired performance that is based off ISK sustainability.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8655	Posted - 2015.05.12 10:50:00 - [12] - Quote Calassaults have the most high slots for sniper ririfle damage mods plus an extender or recharger. You can get higher damage values than a calmando and be more mobile. Most calassaults die like chumps in rifle fights. There's never enough sh**posting going on, so let's add a few more teaspoons of the guy posting after me to the recipie!
Haerr The Rainbow Effect Negative-Feedback 2897	Posted - 2015.05.12 11:09:00 - [13] - Quote Neat! Would you mind giving us War Points per Death as well?
Cat Merc Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 16621	Posted - 2015.05.12 11:11:00 - [14] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Calassaults have the most high slots for sniper ririfle damage mods plus an extender or recharger. You can get higher damage values than a calmando and be more mobile. Most calassaults die like chumps in rifle fights. I only see standard/advanced Cal Assault snipers. Everyone using proto snipers tends to run a highly bricked Calmando from my experience. Either that or a Logi for both uplinks and nanohives. "Breakin, PS3's and PS4's can't mate. They're incompatible. Unlike Apache's and Cappuccino machines." - *Cat wisdom*
Knightshade Belladonna Kentucky Fried Clones 1491	Posted - 2015.05.12 11:16:00 - [15] - Quote so what exactly is these cal logis doing out there to get such a greater kdr over other logis? I always hear it's a crap logi..apparently the best slayer though heh
Imp Splat On The Brink CRONOS. 3	Posted - 2015.05.12 11:20:00 - [16] - Quote Glad to see data of this nature. It does not, however, give us an idea of how said suits are being used. Ratta, we could infer a LOT of info if you also added the total kills and/or total deaths to this. For example, Cal Commandos: Relatively few kills compared to other commandos but that KDR would imply sniping. It would be an exhaustive amount of work to break KDR down by gun so I'm not asking that. But ya, simply putting total kills by suit with the KDR would mean a lot.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1047	Posted - 2015.05.12 11:22:00 - [17] - Quote Knightshade Belladonna wrote: so what exactly is these cal logis doing out there to get such a greater kdr over other logis? I always hear it's a crap logi..apparently the best slayer though heh idk. im lost on that one myself. nade spam maybe? use core nades with protohives and youd never run out
Cat Merc Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 16621	Posted - 2015.05.12 11:24:00 - [18] - Quote Cal Logi is indeed interesting, and I would recommend Rattati to look at why its K/DR is what it is. "Breakin, PS3's and PS4's can't mate. They're incompatible. Unlike Apache's and Cappuccino machines." - *Cat wisdom*
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 10030	Posted - 2015.05.12 11:40:00 - [19] - Quote Edit: read the wrong stats. Was looking at the medium frames. @Ripley_Riley "Ripley > Soraya" - Arkena Wyrnspire
Edgar Reinhart Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation 101	Posted - 2015.05.12 11:40:00 - [20] - Quote Also have to bear in mind that if there are only 2 people running eg Cal Logi but are really good at what they do, that's going to throw these stats off a wee bit too.

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 12407	Posted - 2015.05.12 11:42:00 - [21] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Edit: read the wrong stats. Was looking at the medium frames. Maybe you should take a better look at the numbers again, and make sure you're reading the right rows because what you just said is clearly false. EDIT: I guess you edited your post just in time. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
Kain Spero Negative-Feedback 5154	Posted - 2015.05.12 11:43:00 - [22] - Quote When I look at these statistics to me it shows the increasing need for tieracide or at least a soft tieracide like flattening slot progression. The disparity between basic, advanced, and proto tier suits seems far too great. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8657	Posted - 2015.05.12 11:47:00 - [23] - Quote Either way. Any chance we can get a chart with the most common weapon for each suit and the K/D for that suit and weapon combo? I have a feeling that it might not be tlqhat most expect or there are outliers who break the curve. There's never enough sh**posting going on, so let's add a few more teaspoons of the guy posting after me to the recipie!
Haerr The Rainbow Effect Negative-Feedback 2898	Posted - 2015.05.12 11:59:00 - [24] - Quote Would be interesting to see a full range of: Dropsuit :: Dropsuit Tier :: Weapon :: Weapon Tier :: VS.Dropsuit :: VS.Dropsuit Tier But Weapon :: Weapon Tier :: VS.Dropsuit :: VS.Dropsuit Tier would be cool too
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 10077	Posted - 2015.05.12 12:25:00 - [25] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Cal Logi is indeed interesting, and I would recommend Rattati to look at why its K/DR is what it is. Drop-and-Forget nature of Logi focus (nanohives) allows it to focus more on combat. Kinda hard to have your KDR impacted when you have a weapon in your hands as opposed to an Active Scanner or Repair Tool. (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8663	Posted - 2015.05.12 12:32:00 - [26] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Cal Logi is indeed interesting, and I would recommend Rattati to look at why its K/DR is what it is. Drop-and-Forget nature of Logi focus (nanohives) allows it to focus more on combat. Kinda hard to have your KDR impacted when you have a weapon in your hands as opposed to an Active Scanner or Repair Tool. Bonus to repair hives. Rifles in hand. There's never enough sh**posting going on, so let's add a few more teaspoons of the guy posting after me to the recipie!
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 6518	Posted - 2015.05.12 12:35:00 - [27] - Quote Since Large Commando Frame is the suit of choice for Snipers, 7.22 KDR for that suit at Proto makes sense. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 1007	Posted - 2015.05.12 12:37:00 - [28] - Quote Cal. mando= sniper, thats why it has a 7+ KD Cal. assault= camping at long range with a rail rifle doesnt mean that it is competetive Cal. logi= no idea how the heck thats so high i literally allmost never see any 1 running around with it. Cal. sentinel= for slaying scrubs a great suit however infeorior vs a bricktanked amarr sentinel that has a logi behind him For the assault and logi i think the only reason why thats so high is that before the other assaults have beeing introduced it was the only Assault suit of its kind. The logi K/D can be explained by back in the day it was massively spammed and misused as a slayer suit in pubs and PC. So overall i think that data is way too old to be reliable. It would be more accurate if you show the K/D ratio over a 30 day timeframe instead of all time. Bright is the opposite of dark! Who would have thought of that?!
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9608	Posted - 2015.05.12 12:43:00 - [29] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: The reason why I rigged this up, was to check for myself whether Minsaults are as OP as reported, and it doesn't really look like it. Assumption Right now, 2000 vets are running Prototype Assaults. 500 are running Assault gk.0. 1,500 are running Assault mk.0. Of the 500 running Assault gk.0, 250 are fair shooters and 250 are good shooters. Of the 500 running Assault mk.0, 500 are bad, 500 are fair and 500 are good. Count - Skill - KDR 500 - Bad - 2 500 - Fair - 3 500 - Good - 5 Average mk.0 KDR ~ 3.3 Count - Skill - KDR 0 - Bad - N/A 250 - Fair - 2.5 250 - Good - 4.1 Average gk.0 KDR ~ 3.3 Question If this scenario were true, could we cite it as indication that Assault gk.0 and Assault mk.0 are perfectly in balance? Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 6518	Posted - 2015.05.12 12:44:00 - [30] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Interesting. For all the Caldari assaults constantly whining about their poor shields, Caldari assault is doing great compared to other assaults. And Minmatar assault, which is supposed to be the FOTM according to the forums doesn't seem nearly as OP as people claim. I would love to see the KDR chart for the weapons also. The Min Assault has the least health of any Assault suit, so in the hands of the incompetent masses it will get more deaths. The number of people who use the Min Assault to its full advantage and do well with it is such a small number overall that they don't impact the numbers all that greatly even when they pull big numbers individually. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.

Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 10673	Posted - 2015.05.12 12:51:00 - [31] - Quote You also have to take into account for all the scrub players that want to be Good so they chased FoTM as well. Good and Bad players chase FoTM and there are some players so bad not even a crutch can help them. Sgt Kirk's Gallente Propaganda Youtube Channel
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 6519	Posted - 2015.05.12 12:58:00 - [32] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: When I look at these statistics to me it shows the increasing need for tieracide or at least a soft tieracide like flattening slot progression. The disparity between basic, advanced, and proto tier suits seems far too great. Not at all. - New players will run Standard suits for a long time. By the time they get into Advanced and Proto suits they have more experience. - People who are getting stomped often run cheaper suits. - People don't run expensive suits unless they can minimize their deaths. Otherwise it is too expensive. So for the most part, only good players run expensive suits regularly, and everyone else runs less expensive suits. Therefor the stats of the Standard suits is primarily a representation of unskilled players, while the stats of the Proto suits represents primarily the skilled players. It is a reflection of the cost of the suit more than the quality. That said, I do support tieracide. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9608	Posted - 2015.05.12 12:59:00 - [33] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: You also have to take into account for all the scrub players that want to be Good so they chased FoTM as well. This is my thinking as well (kind of) on usage rates. Is it not possible that a disproportionately high number of "bads" are running MN Assault and artificially deflating its KDR? I suspect there's more at play here then what this set of numbers is telling us, as these numbers do not jive with months of elevated usage rates and months of forum feedback. Suggestion: We could filter out a high percentage of bads (and snipers) from the data by looking at PC usage and efficiency rates rather than global efficiency rates. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 6519	Posted - 2015.05.12 13:03:00 - [34] - Quote Bright Cloud wrote: Cal. mando= sniper, thats why it has a 7+ KD Cal. assault= camping at long range with a rail rifle doesnt mean that it is competetive Cal. logi= no idea how the heck thats so high i literally allmost never see any 1 running around with it. Cal. sentinel= for slaying scrubs a great suit however infeorior vs a bricktanked amarr sentinel that has a logi behind him For the assault and logi i think the only reason why thats so high is that before the other assaults have beeing introduced it was the only Assault suit of its kind. The logi K/D can be explained by back in the day it was massively spammed and misused as a slayer suit in pubs and PC. So overall i think that data is way too old to be reliable. It would be more accurate if you show the K/D ratio over a 30 day timeframe instead of all time. The data is only for the last 30 days. Also, if you seem to never see a suit on the field, that means the masses aren't dying in it. Anyone using the suit is probably an expert on that suit, and therefor will get a better KDR than the masses. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game RUST415 838	Posted - 2015.05.12 13:04:00 - [35] - Quote Do people use a pro cal assault to snipe? I would be surprised if many do. The numbers certainly aren't meaningless, but they perhaps don't give a definitive indication of relative power. Usage stats would also be useful. People tend to use what they can do well with. It would also be good if we could eliminate snipers from the data.
Doc DDD TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 439	Posted - 2015.05.12 13:05:00 - [36] - Quote Using kdr over the last 30 days to claim ' balance ', while nice to see stats being pulled, doesn't provide proof of any sort of suit performance balance. Padding KDR? Use caldari suit and sit in redline, drive a tank or run away from every firefight. Hurray! Stats will show suit is balanced! Wanna play the game? Use any other suit and hack objectives, be a logi, have a logi rep you, push an objective, use damage mods and tank your suit, run in a group and be useful. Caldari scout and Minmitar assault are the only shield suits that have any sort of survivability thanks to strafe speeds and hitboxes that make it neer impossible for a large blaster to hit you from 10m away unless you stop moving. This is not thanks to the shields, it is the terrible hit detection on fast suits. Direct hits do nothing, shooting in front of them does nothing, shooting behend them does nothing, just get lucky and get a random headshot for a kill. There is no balance, there is playing the game and running away from the game. Caldari ( THE SHIELD RACE ) is garbage due to shields being inferior, why don't you pull the stats on how many shield extenders were used on all the shield suits that were lost? Gauranteed the average with a kdr over 1 is at max 1 or 2 slots because the shield suits are sitting in the redline with damage mods trying not to die. Sure, in the last 30 days maybe a bunch of newbs tried out the game and stuck 4 extenders in thier caldari highs.... got smashed... then started speccing into amar or galente or minmitar. Shields are garbage for playing this game. Look at the shield tanks, it's a good indicator of the shape shield infantry are in.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8664	Posted - 2015.05.12 13:15:00 - [37] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: . So for the most part, only good players run expensive suits Crap statement. Replace "good" with "Rich" Players with over half a bil (plenty left over from PC exploits) run proto all the time. You don't have to be good to spam good gear. Some of the players from PC who are beast mode in squad are individually trash when caught alone. There's never enough sh**posting going on, so let's add a few more teaspoons of the guy posting after me to the recipie!
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game RUST415 838	Posted - 2015.05.12 13:19:00 - [38] - Quote Doc, shields aren't inferior, or at least not by much. Plenty of people use shields and do well. Also, shield tanks were more powerful than armour tanks until recently, so your tank comment is meaningless.
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2752	Posted - 2015.05.12 13:39:00 - [39] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: When I look at these statistics to me it shows the increasing need for tieracide or at least a soft tieracide like flattening slot progression. The disparity between basic, advanced, and proto tier suits seems far too great. The only way we can make a reasonable assessment of your statement is if Rattati breaks this data out by mu rating, passive skills, squad/nosquad, Gallogiscans/noGallogiscans. That breakout would show us more clearly what's going on. For my money it's not tiers, it's playerskill/squads/sharedscan. Claiming it's tiers is like the citing the correlation between skirt length and ovarian cancer. PSN: RationalSpark
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2752	Posted - 2015.05.12 13:44:00 - [40] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: . So for the most part, only good players run expensive suits Crap statement. Replace "good" with "Rich" Players with over half a bil (plenty left over from PC exploits) run proto all the time. You don't have to be good to spam good gear. Some of the players from PC who are beast mode in squad are individually trash when caught alone. You're both right and the two variables are correlated. Non-linearly if i had to bet on it. Data need more mining. PSN: RationalSpark

Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9609	Posted - 2015.05.12 13:46:00 - [41] - Quote Parsed for your viewing pleasure: Google Doc Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
Soldner VonKuechle SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 2330	Posted - 2015.05.12 14:14:00 - [42] - Quote While i love any and all official data released by CCP on these matters, i can not make a solid arguement for much of anything off of a single datum. I can haz moar pl0x? Still nice to see, but now we have far more questions that one table can answer Better netcoding and plugged memory leaks. Last pieces of the broken puzlzle.
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game RUST415 838	Posted - 2015.05.12 14:48:00 - [43] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Parsed for your viewing pleasure: Google Doc That's a great way to view the data. It seems to me that racially, things are pretty balanced. Improvements can always be made, but in terms of killing potential there is little variation between races within a suit type. Obviously sniping scews the Caldari comando stats. I suspect Minmatar scout's bonus to hacking probably results in a lower kdr than other scouts, who have bonuses that are more helpful for fighting. As for balance between roles, it's a complex issue. Assaults seem a bit high, scouts and logis seem a bit low. Rattati's recent suggestions for future balance tweaks will probably address these issues. Though as a said before, these stats can't give a definitive indication of power.
SponkSponkSponk WarRavens 1152	Posted - 2015.05.12 14:50:00 - [44] - Quote Would like to see those stats without kills by sniper rifle. (or kills by vehicle turrets I guess, while we're at it) Dust/Eve transfers
Tebu Gan Capital Acquisitions LLC 1419	Posted - 2015.05.12 15:03:00 - [45] - Quote Noticed the caldari logi AND assault top the chart. BOTH suits I run. Man, I must be a scrublet. Bet it's due to dem damage mods. I can stack 3 and run armor in the lows. Pretty beast. Tanks - Balancing Turrets
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9612	Posted - 2015.05.12 15:08:00 - [46] - Quote Tebu Gan wrote: Noticed the caldari logi AND assault top the chart. BOTH suits I run. Personally suspect that KDR for all Caldari units are inflated on account of snipers. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
Tebu Gan Capital Acquisitions LLC 1420	Posted - 2015.05.12 15:32:00 - [47] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Tebu Gan wrote: Noticed the caldari logi AND assault top the chart. BOTH suits I run. Personally suspect that KDR for Caldari units are inflated on account of snipers. There aren't many snipers in PC; would be interesting to see if PC efficiency data tells the same story as global efficiency data. Good point, I went on a sniping spree yesterday with my cal assault and did maintain a very positive KDR. I tend to when running my suit in the assault function too though, but not nearly as often. While the data says otherwise, I do feel there is a sort of imbalance still there. Slightly more base eHP or better base recharge delay would help this perhaps. Tanks - Balancing Turrets
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9614	Posted - 2015.05.12 15:46:00 - [48] - Quote Tebu Gan wrote: Good point, I went on a sniping spree yesterday with my cal assault and did maintain a very positive KDR. I tend to when running my suit in the assault function too though, but not nearly as often. Same here, especially in Ambush. If my scoutly arse is getting kicked or scanned, I swap out my MN/GA Scout for a CA Scout, and often "wait out" the rest of the match sniping. Same goes if the bulk of the enemy opts to megablob or rooftop camp. The CalScout numbers fit this narrative. The CalScout numbers also fit the broken hitbox narrative. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 1071	Posted - 2015.05.12 16:00:00 - [49] - Quote Vindication for my Min Assault. Suck it Nerds. On par with the gallente, and the caldari assaul has a better KDR at ADV. Just edging out the caldari assault at proto. Not enough for data to back up all the 'MIN ASSAULT IS SOO OP' threads. My Minmatar Logi is its rightfull place, and I wear that terrible KD with Pride. After all, if your a logi running around shooting people your doing your job wrong. Also I'm glad that you rattati came up with this chart instead of rolling out the PC stats. Can we get a similar comparision for dropships and tanks? Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9615	Posted - 2015.05.12 16:04:00 - [50] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: Not enough for data to back up all the 'MIN ASSAULT IS SOO OP' threads. http://dust.thang.dk/market_tryhardinator.php ^ All day, every day MN Assault outsells all else. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)

Booby Tuesdays Minmatar Republic 1601	Posted - 2015.05.12 16:31:00 - [51] - Quote Min Logi has the lowest KDR of all suits in the game.
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 1071	Posted - 2015.05.12 16:42:00 - [52] - Quote Markets are all about percieved value, just like in IRL trading. Everybody talks about the Min Assault being OP, so everybody buys it. The more people use it, the more it appears on the kill feed. The more it apears there, the more it plays into the popular idea that it's OP. So the ADV min assault is the most pupular suit purchased. It still has the 3rd ranked KD of all the ADV assault suits. No matter how many were sold if its was OP as people claim it should have the highest KD. It isn't. Also, we should absolutley ignore PC data when balancing for everyone. e.g. In PC sentinels are the suits with a massive KD disproportiante to the game. In the entire dust 514 community, Assaults have the highest KD. The freaking proto Caldari scout has a higher KD than Minmatar, gallente and Amarr prototype Sentinels. PC is the worst metric to go by. Balance for that and break the game for everyone. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3097	Posted - 2015.05.12 16:46:00 - [53] - Quote So, as I thought not much is actually 'wrong' with caldari suits... at least on first glance. I'll give my thoughts on the various statistical differences. Caldari commando: sniper rifles. Outright I think sniping is the big reason this thing seemingly has a way, way higher kills / spawn. I still feel its incredibly underpowered in terms of tank stats, so people want to stay off the field with it... which means they're sniping with 3x complex damage mods (yay +~38% rail damage!). Caldari Sentinel: Actually a rather good suit not entirely sure why it's got such high avg KDR, but I suspect it's from long range forge gun gameplay rather than marching into walls of fire with HMG's. Caldari Scout: This one baffles me but my initial thoughts are because it has absolutely amazing inbuilt recharge stats (3/4 delays, 50hp/sec unmodified). If I had to suggest a nerf, I'd drop the shield recharge on it by 10 points or so. Caldari Assault: Relatively good regen stats when fit for it, rail rifle & bolt pistol are the common loadout on it. Caldari logi: With only three equipment slots most callogi's are in a position of providing fire support for their allies and healing them through rep hives, rather than standing behind them and working on them via rep tool. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9622	Posted - 2015.05.12 16:47:00 - [54] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: No matter how many were sold if its was OP as people claim it should have the highest KD. It isn't. That isn't necessarily true. If this report were restricted it to the top X% of performers, then you would be correct. We're looking at averages here, not distributions. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
Sylwester Dziewiecki Interregnum. 465	Posted - 2015.05.12 17:26:00 - [55] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Dear data enthusiasts, here are the average Kill Death Ratios of dropsuits, per race and role for the last 30 days. The reason why I rigged this up, was to check for myself whether Minsaults are as OP as reported, and it doesn't really look like it. What I am surprised at, is actually the overall balance of dropsuits, there are a few outliers, f.ex. Galassaults, but I think it's more the weapon, than the suit. [img]http://puu.sh/hKpgl/5c519a649f.png[/img] Study, enjoy, comment. Question: Is this KDR include Vehicles kills or not? Gallente Speed Scout. EVE side of me: Nosum Hseebnrido
Scheneighnay McBob And the ButtPirates 6569	Posted - 2015.05.12 18:25:00 - [56] - Quote OMFG this is the funniest thread I've read lately. People are crying about caldari suits being UP, when at the proto level, they have the best KD Some details can be ignored
shaman oga Dead Man's Game 4655	Posted - 2015.05.12 18:39:00 - [57] - Quote Can we have numbers of destroyed/killed clones with each dropsuit? Shaman's Shack - A place to trade Training to be a packed RE master launcher
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3101	Posted - 2015.05.12 18:54:00 - [58] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: OMFG this is the funniest thread I've read lately. People are crying about caldari suits being UP, when at the proto level, they have the best KD We're only looking at one metric though. This is only scratching the surface and there's a lot more going on. Yes, they have good KDR's *but why is that the case?* Is it because of the range of their weapons? Maybe partially? Is it because there's only a small 'elite' group using them and there's less 'bad' players bringind down the average? maybe. Is it because people who use these suits practice an incredible amount of risk avoidance behaviour? Probably true in the case of the cal commando. One metric doesn't explain everything I mean I have quite a good idea on why the cal scout and cal commando have the 'best' KDR's, and some ideas on why the assault, logistics and sentinel are up there too but that doesn't mean my ideas are necessarily correct. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
RedBleach LeSanglant Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 810	Posted - 2015.05.12 19:16:00 - [59] - Quote The Caldari logi... that poor poor poor shield frame. So far away from all the others. It is good at dying. 3.19 to all the other logis at the high 1.9's and low 2.0's. Why, oh why? Shielded logis just don't do as well? Poor mobility? Krap for health?... Confidence in shields at the Proto level? The learning that it is just not so? or is the stat based on 3 years ago when the Caldari was the Killer Bee and all assaults ran it as well... could be something there. The Logi Code. Creator, Believer, Follower
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9632	Posted - 2015.05.12 19:40:00 - [60] - Quote RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: The Caldari logi... is the stat based on 3 years ago when the Caldari was the Killer Bee and all assaults ran it as well... could be something there. CCP Rattati wrote: ... for the last 30 days. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)

Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9634	Posted - 2015.05.12 19:46:00 - [61] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: OMFG this is the funniest thread I've read lately. People are crying about caldari suits being UP, when at the proto level, they have the best KD We know that snipers occupy an uniquely high KDR bracket and that snipers favor Caldari suits. Is it not reasonable to assume that these Caldari KDR statistics are being inflated by outliers? Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 24004	Posted - 2015.05.12 20:34:00 - [62] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: OMFG this is the funniest thread I've read lately. People are crying about caldari suits being UP, when at the proto level, they have the best KD We know that snipers occupy an uniquely high KDR bracket and that snipers favor Caldari suits. Is it not reasonable to assume that these Caldari KDR statistics are being inflated by outliers? For a few samples, specifically the Calmando, I completely agree. In others, though? The Callogi? Arkena Wyrnspire aka "British Khorne" - Cross Atu Gallente Guide
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3102	Posted - 2015.05.12 21:14:00 - [63] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: OMFG this is the funniest thread I've read lately. People are crying about caldari suits being UP, when at the proto level, they have the best KD We know that snipers occupy an uniquely high KDR bracket and that snipers favor Caldari suits. Is it not reasonable to assume that these Caldari KDR statistics are being inflated by outliers? For a few samples, specifically the Calmando, I completely agree. In others, though? The Callogi? More time spent shooting & less time spent repping because of rep hives. Also popular with myo builds for a bit. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Tweaksz THE SMOKIN GUNZ Dark Taboo 219	Posted - 2015.05.12 21:39:00 - [64] - Quote Lol looks like shields aren't as UP as the shield enthusiasts would have you believe. Pill Popping Madness!
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9636	Posted - 2015.05.12 21:50:00 - [65] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: OMFG this is the funniest thread I've read lately. People are crying about caldari suits being UP, when at the proto level, they have the best KD We know that snipers occupy an uniquely high KDR bracket and that snipers favor Caldari suits. Is it not reasonable to assume that these Caldari KDR statistics are being inflated by outliers? For a few samples, specifically the Calmando, I completely agree. In others, though? The Callogi? No idea what's up the CalLogi; if pressed to guess, I'd say something to do with myofibs. Either way, if this were my dataset to manipulate, I'd remove from it kills from sniper rifles. Why let an easily removed outlier affect interpretation? Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
Imp Smash Molon Labe. RUST415 834	Posted - 2015.05.12 22:53:00 - [66] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Kain Spero wrote: When I look at these statistics to me it shows the increasing need for tieracide or at least a soft tieracide like flattening slot progression. The disparity between basic, advanced, and proto tier suits seems far too great. Not at all. - New players will run Standard suits for a long time. By the time they get into Advanced and Proto suits they have more experience. - People who are getting stomped often run cheaper suits. - People don't run expensive suits unless they can minimize their deaths. Otherwise it is too expensive. So for the most part, only good players run expensive suits regularly, and everyone else runs less expensive suits. Therefor the stats of the Standard suits is primarily a representation of unskilled players, while the stats of the Proto suits represents primarily the skilled players. It is a reflection of the cost of the suit more than the quality. That said, I do support tieracide. That's pretty good rationale. Very logical. I wouldn't be surprised if this was largely true

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 22412	Posted - 2015.05.13 00:30:00 - [67] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Tesfa Alem wrote: 1. No matter how many were sold if its was OP as people claim it should have the highest KD. It isn't. 2. Also, we should absolutley ignore PC data when balancing for everyone ... PC is the worst metric to go by. Balance for that and break the game for everyone. Point 1. That isn't necessarily true. If this report were restricted it to the top X% of performers, then you would be more correct. We're looking at averages here, not distributions. To illustrate (or at least attempt to ): Adipem Nothi wrote: Assumption Right now, 2000 vets are running Prototype Assaults. 500 are running Assault gk.0. 1,500 are running Assault mk.0. Of the 500 running Assault gk.0, 250 are fair shooters and 250 are good shooters. Of the 500 running Assault mk.0, 500 are bad, 500 are fair and 500 are good. Count - Skill - KDR 500 - Bad - 2.0 500 - Fair - 3.0 500 - Good - 5.0 Average mk.0 KDR ~ 3.3 Count - Skill - KDR 0 - Bad - N/A 250 - Fair - 2.5 250 - Good - 4.1 Average gk.0 KDR ~ 3.3 Question If this scenario were true, could we cite it as indication that Assault gk.0 and Assault mk.0 are perfectly in balance? Point 2. I'm suggesting we check our expectations against all available datasources before ruling whether or not something is balanced; that's quite different than balancing for PC. If our expectation is that MN Assaults are fine but PC usage rates, PC efficiency rates, forum complaints and pub usage rates all point to the contrary, would it not be prudent to at least challenge our expectation? To be honest, this is of course the right thing to do, just like with weapons, KDR plus use and actual effectiveness. I am trying to find the right combination of a key performance indicator (kpi) that just tells us whether or not something is relatively overpowered. If I told you all these are the same, except 50% kills are performed by Minsaults, we would have a problem. Just like with the Rail Rifle before. But if the Kills are split within the Assault Role fairly equally, and the KDR is fairly equal, then I would be less concerned. That's why I am running an experiment whether the right formula is K/S*relativeKill% for weapons. That quickly identifies weapons that kill a lot and have a high KDR, and isolates cases where KDR is good, but Kills are low, and thirdly, low KDR, low Kill weapons stand out like a sore thumb. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Imp Smash Molon Labe. RUST415 834	Posted - 2015.05.13 00:41:00 - [68] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: To be honest, this is of course the right thing to do, just like with weapons, KDR plus use and actual effectiveness. I am trying to find the right combination of a key performance indicator (kpi) that just tells us whether or not something is relatively overpowered. If I told you all these are the same, except 50% kills are performed by Minsaults, we would have a problem. Just like with the Rail Rifle before. But if the Kills are split within the Assault Role fairly equally, and the KDR is fairly equal, then I would be less concerned. That's why I am running an experiment whether the right formula is K/S*relativeKill% for weapons. That quickly identifies weapons that kill a lot and have a high KDR, and isolates cases where KDR is good, but Kills are low, and thirdly, low KDR, low Kill weapons stand out like a sore thumb. What about 2 separate statistics for comparison by a linking 3rd statistic? 1.The first is what you put in the original post -- KDR per suit. (with the aforementioned total kills listed as well) 2. KDR per gun 3. Most commonly used gun per suit (when spawned) It isn't comprehensive data by any means, but it would specifically highlight outliers and give us a pretty solid idea of what type of gameplay people are using when playing each suit. It would also be fairly simple and easy to digest. It wouldn't be hard to figure out a formula from there I'd reckon.
Alena Ventrallis Commando Perkone Caldari State 3051	Posted - 2015.05.13 01:12:00 - [69] - Quote Here's a question for Rattati: we see that MinAssault KDR is close to the same as the other Assault suits. Now how about this data: what did those MinAssaults kill? Which suits were they best at killing, and which suits killed MinAssault the most? We can't look at KDR of suits and declare balance. If the majority (save some outliers) are using one particular suit, then it's logical for it to have a fairly normal KDR: not only does it get most of the kills (since the majority are using it), but it would logically also do most of the dying (since the majority of players are using it.) Whirly gun make much thunder! - Victor
7th Son 7 Algintal Core Gallente Federation 1033	Posted - 2015.05.13 01:14:00 - [70] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Cal Logi is indeed interesting, and I would recommend Rattati to look at why its K/DR is what it is. Strafe combined with a powerful ranged weopon w/good accuracy is why. A Cal-Logi can ARR from the hip like a dream combined with excellent movement it's great. I have good exp with the Cal-Logi. Only your complete and total awareness is needed, nothing else will do. ----- OSHO

Sicerly Yaw Quantum times 154	Posted - 2015.05.13 01:43:00 - [71] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Interesting. For all the Caldari assaults constantly whining about their poor shields, Caldari assault is doing great compared to other assaults. And Minmatar assault, which is supposed to be the FOTM according to the forums doesn't seem nearly as OP as people claim. I would love to see the KDR chart for the weapons also. why do you people not realize that the reason caldari seem to have inflated kd is not because they are at a good place but because of the amount of players that use them for sniping, making those numbers inflate
Juno Tristan Obscure Reference 606	Posted - 2015.05.13 02:30:00 - [72] - Quote Sicerly Yaw wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Interesting. For all the Caldari assaults constantly whining about their poor shields, Caldari assault is doing great compared to other assaults. And Minmatar assault, which is supposed to be the FOTM according to the forums doesn't seem nearly as OP as people claim. I would love to see the KDR chart for the weapons also. why do you people not realize that the reason caldari seem to have inflated kd is not because they are at a good place but because of the amount of players that use them for sniping, making those numbers inflate Exactly, how many cal logis do you actually see on the field? They're used for (redline) sniping due to the amount of high slots and CPU/PG ADS Ramming Revenge! Plasma Cannon Rampage
Boot Booter Titans of Phoenix RUST415 1307	Posted - 2015.05.13 02:33:00 - [73] - Quote Lol and people laughed at me when I said the assaults were more or less balanced. Well... Haha I told you so. Interesting data, tough to say how usual playstyles affect the data (although a clear example is the calmando sniper style). Edit: Hey Rat could you provide the standard deviation or variance for each category as well.. Just curious.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9646	Posted - 2015.05.13 03:17:00 - [74] - Quote Boot Booter wrote: Lol and people laughed at me when I said the assaults were more or less balanced. More or less balanced against what? Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
bogeyman m Corrosive Synergy Rise Of Legion. 461	Posted - 2015.05.13 03:27:00 - [75] - Quote Booby Tuesdays wrote: Min Logi has the lowest KDR of all suits in the game. Ya... I have a lot to do with that... Sorry gang. Professional Logibro and avid AVer -- I support my team for the ISK, but I blow up vehicles for the LOLz.
nelo kazuma THE LAST H0PE. RUST415 171	Posted - 2015.05.13 06:15:00 - [76] - Quote I dont believe the cal section of this chart first of all cal suits of any varient have the lowest use in the dust community (except scout) so if their is one cal for every 3 gal min or amar of course our numbers might be off. second kdr could imply sniping e.c.t Id like to see total amount of players for each race who played during this period of chart then id take it seriously allot of people who still run caldari are the most expierenced players whove learned how to deal with cals low survivabilty.
Starlight Burner Arrary of Clusters 255	Posted - 2015.05.13 07:02:00 - [77] - Quote I don't believe these statistics. CEO of Arrary of Clusters, a close relations corporation Caldari Factional Warfare, enlist today! Thank you for DUST
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 840	Posted - 2015.05.13 08:34:00 - [78] - Quote nelo kazuma wrote: I dont believe the cal section of this chart first of all cal suits of any varient have the lowest use in the dust community (except scout) so if their is one cal for every 3 gal min or amar of course our numbers might be off. second kdr could imply sniping e.c.t Id like to see total amount of players for each race who played during this period of chart then id take it seriously allot of people who still run caldari are the most expierenced players whove learned how to deal with cals low survivabilty. Loads of people use caldari suits.
nelo kazuma THE LAST H0PE. RUST415 172	Posted - 2015.05.13 08:53:00 - [79] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: nelo kazuma wrote: I dont believe the cal section of this chart first of all cal suits of any varient have the lowest use in the dust community (except scout) so if their is one cal for every 3 gal min or amar of course our numbers might be off. second kdr could imply sniping e.c.t Id like to see total amount of players for each race who played during this period of chart then id take it seriously allot of people who still run caldari are the most expierenced players whove learned how to deal with cals low survivabilty. Loads of people use caldari suits. Im not saying their arent cal users but for evry battle u see one cal user you see 2 of every other race.(just example not literal). But pretty close in my opinion
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 1073	Posted - 2015.05.13 09:11:00 - [80] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Tesfa Alem wrote: 1. No matter how many were sold if its was OP as people claim it should have the highest KD. It isn't. 2. Also, we should absolutley ignore PC data when balancing for everyone ... PC is the worst metric to go by. Balance for that and break the game for everyone. Point 1. That isn't necessarily true. If this report were restricted it to the top X% of performers, then you would be more correct. We're looking at averages here, not distributions. To illustrate (or at least attempt to ): Adipem Nothi wrote: Assumption Right now, 2000 vets are running Prototype Assaults. 500 are running Assault gk.0. 1,500 are running Assault mk.0. Of the 500 running Assault gk.0, 250 are fair shooters and 250 are good shooters. Of the 500 running Assault mk.0, 500 are bad, 500 are fair and 500 are good. Count - Skill - KDR 500 - Bad - 2.0 500 - Fair - 3.0 500 - Good - 5.0 Average mk.0 KDR ~ 3.3 Count - Skill - KDR 0 - Bad - N/A 250 - Fair - 2.5 250 - Good - 4.1 Average gk.0 KDR ~ 3.3 Question If this scenario were true, could we cite it as indication that Assault gk.0 and Assault mk.0 are perfectly in balance? Point 2. I'm suggesting we check our expectations against all available datasources before ruling whether or not something is balanced; that's quite different than balancing for PC. If our expectation is that MN Assaults are fine but PC usage rates, PC efficiency rates, forum complaints and pub usage rates all point to the contrary, would it not be prudent to at least challenge our expectation? To be honest, this is of course the right thing to do, just like with weapons, KDR plus use and actual effectiveness. I am trying to find the right combination of a key performance indicator (kpi) that just tells us whether or not something is relatively overpowered. If I told you all these are the same, except 50% kills are performed by Minsaults, we would have a problem. Just like with the Rail Rifle before. But if the Kills are split within the Assault Role fairly equally, and the KDR is fairly equal, then I would be less concerned. That's why I am running an experiment whether the right formula is K/S*relativeKill% for weapons. That quickly identifies weapons that kill a lot and have a high KDR, and isolates cases where KDR is good, but Kills are low, and thirdly, low KDR, low Kill weapons stand out like a sore thumb. I agree that KDR isn't the sole metric to go by. At the same time i'm seeing a lot of people on these forums rejecting this data because of thier own personal opions, more or less along the lines of 'it killed me it must be OP', or 'its popular it must be OP'. All in all its looking at the data backward. Instead of 'here's the data what is OP and what isnt' we have 'the Minmatar Assault is OP! Where is the data to justify this? But- i've been complaining how could i have been wrong and the data be right? Must find another source' hence my 'SUCK IT NERDS' comment. Because there are few trhings i hate more than the second line of reasoning. Screw the emotional state of the forums and screw PC, that is no way to balance dust at all. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.

STYLIE77 KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 679	Posted - 2015.05.13 11:22:00 - [81] - Quote Starlight Burner wrote: I don't believe these statistics. Agreed. Cal Scout, Min Assault, Cal Assault When they are doing the strafing trick to break up hit detection many of them are just invincible. Wait until Ratatti see's the KDR's of the Min Assault / Shotguns for the past 30 days ... lol http://caughtyouflinching.ytmnd.com/
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1053	Posted - 2015.05.13 11:52:00 - [82] - Quote STYLIE77 wrote: Starlight Burner wrote: I don't believe these statistics. Agreed. Cal Scout, Min Assault, Cal Assault When they are doing the strafing trick to break up hit detection many of them are just invincible. Wait until Ratatti see's the KDR's of the Min Assault / Shotguns for the past 30 days ... lol KDR is higher for caldari for the same reason KDR is higher for snipers.
dombolus KAPPA.514 Imperium Eden 5	Posted - 2015.05.13 12:18:00 - [83] - Quote I know why proto cal logi's have a ridiculously high k/d... NELO KAZUMA
Mejt0 Dead Man's Game 1387	Posted - 2015.05.13 12:20:00 - [84] - Quote This data is inaccurate sadly. There's no info of how many suits were used. For example. Sure caldari assault has 3.5+ kdr here but we don't know how many suits were used. Probably not much, that's why the score is at equal level as of the rest. Because there's way more amarr, gal and min assaults out there and thier KDR is divided by higher number. Caldari Loyalist thecreaturehub fan
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9648	Posted - 2015.05.13 12:32:00 - [85] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: I agree that KDR isn't the sole metric to go by. At the same time i'm seeing a lot of people on these forums rejecting this data because of thier own personal opions, more or less along the lines of 'it killed me it must be OP', or 'its popular it must be OP'. All in all its looking at the data backward. Instead of 'here's the data what is OP and what isnt' we have 'the Minmatar Assault is OP! Where is the data to justify this? But- i've been complaining how could i have been wrong and the data be right? Must find another source' hence my 'SUCK IT NERDS' comment. Because there are few trhings i hate more than the second line of reasoning. Screw the emotional state of the forums and screw PC, that is no way to balance dust at all. CCP Rattati writes: Here's some data. Study, comment, enjoy. Others write: Observations on population makeup, averages vs distributions, effects of outliers, etc. Tesfa Alem writes: SUCK IT NERDS! What Tesfa really wants is for others to learn to be logical and reasonable, just like him. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
VALCORE72 Vengeance Unbound RUST415 307	Posted - 2015.05.13 18:38:00 - [86] - Quote does this mean the rail rifle will be toned down slightly lol im losen fights at close range with my ar that i shouldn't .
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3109	Posted - 2015.05.13 19:33:00 - [87] - Quote VALCORE72 wrote: does this mean the rail rifle will be toned down slightly lol im losen fights at close range with my ar that i shouldn't . You're not, nor should you ever be guaranteed to win a fight at close range. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 1075	Posted - 2015.05.13 21:43:00 - [88] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: What Tesfa really wants is for others to learn to be logical and reasonable, just like him. Yay more me. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 3497	Posted - 2015.05.13 23:16:00 - [89] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Calassaults have the most high slots for sniper ririfle damage mods plus an extender or recharger. You can get higher damage values than a calmando and be more mobile. Most calassaults die like chumps in rifle fights. It would be interesting to see the same data set with sniper kills removed from that..... Vitantur Nothus wrote: Why hide a solution under frothy pile of derpa? SCV Ready!
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1055	Posted - 2015.05.13 23:45:00 - [90] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Calassaults have the most high slots for sniper ririfle damage mods plus an extender or recharger. You can get higher damage values than a calmando and be more mobile. Most calassaults die like chumps in rifle fights. It would be interesting to see the same data set with sniper kills removed from that..... Not just sniper kills but all kills over 70m.

Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9690	Posted - 2015.05.14 00:33:00 - [91] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: Not just sniper kills but all kills over 70m. That would a number of weapons ... Forge Guns, Scrambler Rifles, Laser Rifles, Rail Rifles, etc. Why 70m? Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
Songs of Seraphim Negative-Feedback. 834	Posted - 2015.05.14 01:34:00 - [92] - Quote KDR shouldn't be the only metric used; this rather points that the numbers are inconclusive since it only has a narrow variable. There are plenty of things to skew the data. Hell, I know for a fact that I skewed the data on ADV and PRO Caldari Assaults, as well as PRO Caldari Scouts and Caldari Logistics. And since someone said "Shield suits aren't UP", try using the Caldari suits without any armor modules. Try not to die. >:D As an avid Caldari user, I can explain why each role has the KD it has. Commando: It is mainly used as a sniping platform. 3 damage mods plus 10% rail damage bonus... Personally, I use it as AV/AI mix, but it has horrendous regen and hitbox for its movement speed. Sentinel: Great AV platform. And pretty decent with a Six Kin HMG. Again, mostly used for AV with an Ishukone Assault Forge Gun. Great delay times with a regulator, and somewhat mobile. Scout: No comment other than speed and regen is sublime. Assault: I feel somewhat personal in skewing the data for this suit. 3 regulators and an Ishukone Assault Rail Rifle plus Kaalakiota Bolt Pistol is no joke at taking out multiple enemies. Other than that, people armor stack it and die off quickly. I hardly ever see any properly fitted Caldari Assaults. I'm even surprised that the suit is ahead of the Gallente Assault, much more when they seem to have the highest KDR. There seldom is a Caldari Assault sniping, as the commando is better suited for it. Logistics: There ARE a few factors to it. Primarily that seldom anyone uses it, and the few that do... Even when I fit it to support via Uplinks, Scans, and Repair Hives, it has no tank, but low delays and high-ish shield regen. All I know is that there a handful of players who use this suit -- Nelo and myself -- and there are under certain situations in which they are used in. That's some of my "insight". Feel free to comment/critique. Caldari Loyalist Join Caldari FW via Kirjuun Saaja
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1055	Posted - 2015.05.14 02:32:00 - [93] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: Not just sniper kills but all kills over 70m. That would a number of weapons ... Forge Guns, Scrambler Rifles, Laser Rifles, Rail Rifles, etc. Why 70m? Exactly. All the long range weapons. And 70m is the optimal range of a rail rifle. Basically, by removing these kills we would only have data showing kills that are reasonably possible by the majority of weapons. The KDR should drop for most of the long range weapons. You could also just show the kills for weapons under 60m. This should in theory show that there are less long range weapons earning kills at shorter ranges. And you could do the opposite show all kills above 70m and see how weapons perform. This data shows only suit efficiency. We need weapon data and also to see at what ranges the kills are made. If 60% of forge fun kills are made at 30m then I'd say something is wrong.
Marcus Stormfire G.R.A.V.E The Ditanian Alliance 93	Posted - 2015.05.14 15:49:00 - [94] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: I see my calsent isn't nearly as underpowered as everyone claims. IN YOUR FACE, HATERS! We need an emoticon for being smug or gloating. Oh ... right... Uh... first? How the hell did that happen? Calsent is a sniper fit, there is no guarantee that this dropsuit is effective at killing, only that it is either good at killing or not dying (or both). Thought that the sniper fit was the Calmmando with the damage bonus and reload bonus. If you set up the Calsent right, it is quite effective at killing it is just pretty slow with low stamina regen. I found it is good for medium range support of your team. -Marcus -I don't always kill Mercs with a sidearm, But when I do I use militia.
PLAYSTTION Corrosive Synergy Rise Of Legion. 1394	Posted - 2015.05.15 02:19:00 - [95] - Quote LOL Cal logi has highest logi K/D! Other then that it seems pretty balanced. Gassault Galogi Galsent `Open Beta Vet - 43 mil sp Director of Corrosive Synergy`
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 1660	Posted - 2015.05.16 00:37:00 - [96] - Quote Caldari is a surprise across the board for me. I think a huge chunk was taken out of the protostompers "It isn't the suit, it is the player" argument. Because, that's why.
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game 2	Posted - 2015.05.20 13:24:00 - [97] - Quote Mejt0 wrote: This data is inaccurate sadly. There's no info of how many suits were used. For example. Sure caldari assault has 3.5+ kdr here but we don't know how many suits were used. Probably not much, that's why the score is at equal level as of the rest. Because there's way more amarr, gal and min assaults out there and thier KDR is divided by higher number. inaccurate.. not so much, completely useless .. indeed they are With the current playerbase - 15% stompers - 25% dust mercs - 60% those guys we farm WP from killing It is damn near impossible to gain any accurate data from battle stats, as even in PC most matches are uneven So a list of blueberries run Am/Ga Assaults, getting stomped daily.. Where the list of them learned the Cal Assault is suicide so they stopped using it Same for logi - Mn/Ga worse stats - because they are more common... less Am/Cal get used so the stats are higher than the common suits. A flaw here is more experienced players are likely to use the less popular suits = better KDR This is almost as dumb as checking market data to try and see whats more common.. 'Aha, they bought 50,000 scouts suits last week, it's poularity is growing' - No. You imbecile.. they die by the hundreds and need to be restocked often 'The Amarr Assault has low market use, maybe it needs a buff?' - No. that one suit just lasted 5 battles, no need to restock.. If we keep playing to the numbers.. and not actually playing the game.. I can't believe I'm saying this but it may infact get even worse !! GG Te Sbundo'd
gggggggg rrrrrrrrrrrr Algintal Core Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2015.05.20 14:20:00 - [98] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Dear data enthusiasts, here are the average Kill Death Ratios of dropsuits, per race and role for the last 30 days. The reason why I rigged this up, was to check for myself whether Minsaults are as OP as reported, and it doesn't really look like it. What I am surprised at, is actually the overall balance of dropsuits, there are a few outliers, f.ex. Galassaults, but I think it's more the weapon, than the suit. [img]http://puu.sh/hKpgl/5c519a649f.png[/img] Study, enjoy, comment. so this is the data that you have used to nerf the caldari logi, AGAIN. It does appear you need to be told that you are WAY wrong with your interpretation of the data as usual, the reason the stats are like the way they are is simple, NO ONE USES THE CALDARI LOGI TO LOGI, NO ONE AT ALL, they just shoot people with it, and why? i hear you ask, well you see it's impossible to fit as a logi suit without using a cpu extender, the only suit in the whole game that is like this, and all you have done by nerfing it is make it harder to logi with, but still fine to kill with, all you have done is hurt those few who use it for what it is intended for, this is just the most recent example of you guys at ccp just missing the point entirely, congratulations, and with the statistical skills that you have it appears you've all missed your calling, y'all should go into politics, cause they too are great at getting the wrong idea from statistical data, i wait with baited breath as to which way you are going to alienate those few of us left that play regularly
Talos Vagheitan Ancient Exiles. 1	Posted - 2015.05.21 03:52:00 - [99] - Quote I love how the Cal-Logi blows the others out of the water, despite it's reputation as the hands down "worst logi". !--CCP, let's push for the license of Dust on both current Gen consoles--!
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9	Posted - 2015.05.21 10:18:00 - [100] - Quote gggggggg rrrrrrrrrrrr wrote: Strong Derp So if folks are only using the CalLogi to slay, and are doing so effectively, what do you expect would happen if the CalLogi got a survivability buff? Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)

Booby Tuesdays Minmatar Republic 1	Posted - 2015.05.21 12:20:00 - [101] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: gggggggg rrrrrrrrrrrr wrote: Strong Derp So if folks are only using the CalLogi to slay, and are doing so effectively, what do you expect would happen if the CalLogi got a survivability buff? You force all equipment slots to be filled on all Logi suits. Won't completely eliminate slaying, but it will help curb it a tad. That said, I'm not a big fan of forcing fits on people. This would cause me to lose my speed hack Min logi fit. However, if it stops the ignant slayer logi QQ, then I'm all for it.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3	Posted - 2015.05.23 11:31:00 - [102] - Quote Talos Vagheitan wrote: I love how the Cal-Logi blows the others out of the water, despite it's reputation as the hands down "worst logi". Core locus nades & nanohive spam? Locus Grenades are what, 8nanites each? If using proto hives you can get 9 grenades out per hive... and carrying 6-9 hives (gauged hives carry a stupid amount iirc) that gives you 54-81 core grenades, per spawn. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8	Posted - 2015.05.23 11:44:00 - [103] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Talos Vagheitan wrote: I love how the Cal-Logi blows the others out of the water, despite it's reputation as the hands down "worst logi". Core locus nades & nanohive spam? Locus Grenades are what, 8nanites each? If using proto hives you can get 9 grenades out per hive... and carrying 6-9 hives (gauged hives carry a stupid amount iirc) that gives you 54-81 core grenades, per spawn. So you're saying that the calogi is actually the grenadier dropsuit? WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
jace silencerww D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 169	Posted - 2015.05.24 19:16:00 - [104] - Quote lol the light suit vs scouts were funny. Minnie basic frames are doing well. however once your in the real scout suit look what happens. both the amarr and Minnie are way behind. I am surprised about the amarr scout is not better but guess the amarr scout players are not using it right. LOL I knew the Minnie scout would be low. even with the few great Minnie nova knivers but with no ewar bonus & lowest pg scout. it is very hard to play. can not run both max shield and speed most Minnie scouts has about 250-275 shield and 9.5-11.12 sprint using proto even less with adv or a joke basic. funny thing even with my Minnie proto scout I have neen ohk by a basic scr at 65 meters while at full ehp. I want to keep the nova knife damage and hacking but need something better. also I mean how many caldari scout or any suits for the matter runs the complex range amp anymore? it was nerfed too hard. from 45% to 15% what a joke. hell any logi suit have almost as good as scan range as a proto caldari scout. lol the logi can beat all the other scouts in scan range. maybe it should have been at 25% for the complex.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 22	Posted - 2015.05.25 07:07:00 - [105] - Quote That's it for now, we will share more data on Dropsuit KDR at a later date. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"



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