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Sticky:[Data Insights] Dropsuit KDR

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 10673	Posted - 2015.05.12 12:51:00 - [31] - Quote You also have to take into account for all the scrub players that want to be Good so they chased FoTM as well. Good and Bad players chase FoTM and there are some players so bad not even a crutch can help them. Sgt Kirk's Gallente Propaganda Youtube Channel
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 6519	Posted - 2015.05.12 12:58:00 - [32] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: When I look at these statistics to me it shows the increasing need for tieracide or at least a soft tieracide like flattening slot progression. The disparity between basic, advanced, and proto tier suits seems far too great. Not at all. - New players will run Standard suits for a long time. By the time they get into Advanced and Proto suits they have more experience. - People who are getting stomped often run cheaper suits. - People don't run expensive suits unless they can minimize their deaths. Otherwise it is too expensive. So for the most part, only good players run expensive suits regularly, and everyone else runs less expensive suits. Therefor the stats of the Standard suits is primarily a representation of unskilled players, while the stats of the Proto suits represents primarily the skilled players. It is a reflection of the cost of the suit more than the quality. That said, I do support tieracide. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9608	Posted - 2015.05.12 12:59:00 - [33] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: You also have to take into account for all the scrub players that want to be Good so they chased FoTM as well. This is my thinking as well (kind of) on usage rates. Is it not possible that a disproportionately high number of "bads" are running MN Assault and artificially deflating its KDR? I suspect there's more at play here then what this set of numbers is telling us, as these numbers do not jive with months of elevated usage rates and months of forum feedback. Suggestion: We could filter out a high percentage of bads (and snipers) from the data by looking at PC usage and efficiency rates rather than global efficiency rates. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 6519	Posted - 2015.05.12 13:03:00 - [34] - Quote Bright Cloud wrote: Cal. mando= sniper, thats why it has a 7+ KD Cal. assault= camping at long range with a rail rifle doesnt mean that it is competetive Cal. logi= no idea how the heck thats so high i literally allmost never see any 1 running around with it. Cal. sentinel= for slaying scrubs a great suit however infeorior vs a bricktanked amarr sentinel that has a logi behind him For the assault and logi i think the only reason why thats so high is that before the other assaults have beeing introduced it was the only Assault suit of its kind. The logi K/D can be explained by back in the day it was massively spammed and misused as a slayer suit in pubs and PC. So overall i think that data is way too old to be reliable. It would be more accurate if you show the K/D ratio over a 30 day timeframe instead of all time. The data is only for the last 30 days. Also, if you seem to never see a suit on the field, that means the masses aren't dying in it. Anyone using the suit is probably an expert on that suit, and therefor will get a better KDR than the masses. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game RUST415 838	Posted - 2015.05.12 13:04:00 - [35] - Quote Do people use a pro cal assault to snipe? I would be surprised if many do. The numbers certainly aren't meaningless, but they perhaps don't give a definitive indication of relative power. Usage stats would also be useful. People tend to use what they can do well with. It would also be good if we could eliminate snipers from the data.
Doc DDD TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 439	Posted - 2015.05.12 13:05:00 - [36] - Quote Using kdr over the last 30 days to claim ' balance ', while nice to see stats being pulled, doesn't provide proof of any sort of suit performance balance. Padding KDR? Use caldari suit and sit in redline, drive a tank or run away from every firefight. Hurray! Stats will show suit is balanced! Wanna play the game? Use any other suit and hack objectives, be a logi, have a logi rep you, push an objective, use damage mods and tank your suit, run in a group and be useful. Caldari scout and Minmitar assault are the only shield suits that have any sort of survivability thanks to strafe speeds and hitboxes that make it neer impossible for a large blaster to hit you from 10m away unless you stop moving. This is not thanks to the shields, it is the terrible hit detection on fast suits. Direct hits do nothing, shooting in front of them does nothing, shooting behend them does nothing, just get lucky and get a random headshot for a kill. There is no balance, there is playing the game and running away from the game. Caldari ( THE SHIELD RACE ) is garbage due to shields being inferior, why don't you pull the stats on how many shield extenders were used on all the shield suits that were lost? Gauranteed the average with a kdr over 1 is at max 1 or 2 slots because the shield suits are sitting in the redline with damage mods trying not to die. Sure, in the last 30 days maybe a bunch of newbs tried out the game and stuck 4 extenders in thier caldari highs.... got smashed... then started speccing into amar or galente or minmitar. Shields are garbage for playing this game. Look at the shield tanks, it's a good indicator of the shape shield infantry are in.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8664	Posted - 2015.05.12 13:15:00 - [37] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: . So for the most part, only good players run expensive suits Crap statement. Replace "good" with "Rich" Players with over half a bil (plenty left over from PC exploits) run proto all the time. You don't have to be good to spam good gear. Some of the players from PC who are beast mode in squad are individually trash when caught alone. There's never enough sh**posting going on, so let's add a few more teaspoons of the guy posting after me to the recipie!
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game RUST415 838	Posted - 2015.05.12 13:19:00 - [38] - Quote Doc, shields aren't inferior, or at least not by much. Plenty of people use shields and do well. Also, shield tanks were more powerful than armour tanks until recently, so your tank comment is meaningless.
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2752	Posted - 2015.05.12 13:39:00 - [39] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: When I look at these statistics to me it shows the increasing need for tieracide or at least a soft tieracide like flattening slot progression. The disparity between basic, advanced, and proto tier suits seems far too great. The only way we can make a reasonable assessment of your statement is if Rattati breaks this data out by mu rating, passive skills, squad/nosquad, Gallogiscans/noGallogiscans. That breakout would show us more clearly what's going on. For my money it's not tiers, it's playerskill/squads/sharedscan. Claiming it's tiers is like the citing the correlation between skirt length and ovarian cancer. PSN: RationalSpark
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2752	Posted - 2015.05.12 13:44:00 - [40] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: . So for the most part, only good players run expensive suits Crap statement. Replace "good" with "Rich" Players with over half a bil (plenty left over from PC exploits) run proto all the time. You don't have to be good to spam good gear. Some of the players from PC who are beast mode in squad are individually trash when caught alone. You're both right and the two variables are correlated. Non-linearly if i had to bet on it. Data need more mining. PSN: RationalSpark

Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9609	Posted - 2015.05.12 13:46:00 - [41] - Quote Parsed for your viewing pleasure: Google Doc Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
Soldner VonKuechle SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 2330	Posted - 2015.05.12 14:14:00 - [42] - Quote While i love any and all official data released by CCP on these matters, i can not make a solid arguement for much of anything off of a single datum. I can haz moar pl0x? Still nice to see, but now we have far more questions that one table can answer Better netcoding and plugged memory leaks. Last pieces of the broken puzlzle.
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game RUST415 838	Posted - 2015.05.12 14:48:00 - [43] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Parsed for your viewing pleasure: Google Doc That's a great way to view the data. It seems to me that racially, things are pretty balanced. Improvements can always be made, but in terms of killing potential there is little variation between races within a suit type. Obviously sniping scews the Caldari comando stats. I suspect Minmatar scout's bonus to hacking probably results in a lower kdr than other scouts, who have bonuses that are more helpful for fighting. As for balance between roles, it's a complex issue. Assaults seem a bit high, scouts and logis seem a bit low. Rattati's recent suggestions for future balance tweaks will probably address these issues. Though as a said before, these stats can't give a definitive indication of power.
SponkSponkSponk WarRavens 1152	Posted - 2015.05.12 14:50:00 - [44] - Quote Would like to see those stats without kills by sniper rifle. (or kills by vehicle turrets I guess, while we're at it) Dust/Eve transfers
Tebu Gan Capital Acquisitions LLC 1419	Posted - 2015.05.12 15:03:00 - [45] - Quote Noticed the caldari logi AND assault top the chart. BOTH suits I run. Man, I must be a scrublet. Bet it's due to dem damage mods. I can stack 3 and run armor in the lows. Pretty beast. Tanks - Balancing Turrets
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9612	Posted - 2015.05.12 15:08:00 - [46] - Quote Tebu Gan wrote: Noticed the caldari logi AND assault top the chart. BOTH suits I run. Personally suspect that KDR for all Caldari units are inflated on account of snipers. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
Tebu Gan Capital Acquisitions LLC 1420	Posted - 2015.05.12 15:32:00 - [47] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Tebu Gan wrote: Noticed the caldari logi AND assault top the chart. BOTH suits I run. Personally suspect that KDR for Caldari units are inflated on account of snipers. There aren't many snipers in PC; would be interesting to see if PC efficiency data tells the same story as global efficiency data. Good point, I went on a sniping spree yesterday with my cal assault and did maintain a very positive KDR. I tend to when running my suit in the assault function too though, but not nearly as often. While the data says otherwise, I do feel there is a sort of imbalance still there. Slightly more base eHP or better base recharge delay would help this perhaps. Tanks - Balancing Turrets
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9614	Posted - 2015.05.12 15:46:00 - [48] - Quote Tebu Gan wrote: Good point, I went on a sniping spree yesterday with my cal assault and did maintain a very positive KDR. I tend to when running my suit in the assault function too though, but not nearly as often. Same here, especially in Ambush. If my scoutly arse is getting kicked or scanned, I swap out my MN/GA Scout for a CA Scout, and often "wait out" the rest of the match sniping. Same goes if the bulk of the enemy opts to megablob or rooftop camp. The CalScout numbers fit this narrative. The CalScout numbers also fit the broken hitbox narrative. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 1071	Posted - 2015.05.12 16:00:00 - [49] - Quote Vindication for my Min Assault. Suck it Nerds. On par with the gallente, and the caldari assaul has a better KDR at ADV. Just edging out the caldari assault at proto. Not enough for data to back up all the 'MIN ASSAULT IS SOO OP' threads. My Minmatar Logi is its rightfull place, and I wear that terrible KD with Pride. After all, if your a logi running around shooting people your doing your job wrong. Also I'm glad that you rattati came up with this chart instead of rolling out the PC stats. Can we get a similar comparision for dropships and tanks? Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9615	Posted - 2015.05.12 16:04:00 - [50] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: Not enough for data to back up all the 'MIN ASSAULT IS SOO OP' threads. http://dust.thang.dk/market_tryhardinator.php ^ All day, every day MN Assault outsells all else. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)

Booby Tuesdays Minmatar Republic 1601	Posted - 2015.05.12 16:31:00 - [51] - Quote Min Logi has the lowest KDR of all suits in the game.
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 1071	Posted - 2015.05.12 16:42:00 - [52] - Quote Markets are all about percieved value, just like in IRL trading. Everybody talks about the Min Assault being OP, so everybody buys it. The more people use it, the more it appears on the kill feed. The more it apears there, the more it plays into the popular idea that it's OP. So the ADV min assault is the most pupular suit purchased. It still has the 3rd ranked KD of all the ADV assault suits. No matter how many were sold if its was OP as people claim it should have the highest KD. It isn't. Also, we should absolutley ignore PC data when balancing for everyone. e.g. In PC sentinels are the suits with a massive KD disproportiante to the game. In the entire dust 514 community, Assaults have the highest KD. The freaking proto Caldari scout has a higher KD than Minmatar, gallente and Amarr prototype Sentinels. PC is the worst metric to go by. Balance for that and break the game for everyone. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3097	Posted - 2015.05.12 16:46:00 - [53] - Quote So, as I thought not much is actually 'wrong' with caldari suits... at least on first glance. I'll give my thoughts on the various statistical differences. Caldari commando: sniper rifles. Outright I think sniping is the big reason this thing seemingly has a way, way higher kills / spawn. I still feel its incredibly underpowered in terms of tank stats, so people want to stay off the field with it... which means they're sniping with 3x complex damage mods (yay +~38% rail damage!). Caldari Sentinel: Actually a rather good suit not entirely sure why it's got such high avg KDR, but I suspect it's from long range forge gun gameplay rather than marching into walls of fire with HMG's. Caldari Scout: This one baffles me but my initial thoughts are because it has absolutely amazing inbuilt recharge stats (3/4 delays, 50hp/sec unmodified). If I had to suggest a nerf, I'd drop the shield recharge on it by 10 points or so. Caldari Assault: Relatively good regen stats when fit for it, rail rifle & bolt pistol are the common loadout on it. Caldari logi: With only three equipment slots most callogi's are in a position of providing fire support for their allies and healing them through rep hives, rather than standing behind them and working on them via rep tool. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9622	Posted - 2015.05.12 16:47:00 - [54] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: No matter how many were sold if its was OP as people claim it should have the highest KD. It isn't. That isn't necessarily true. If this report were restricted it to the top X% of performers, then you would be correct. We're looking at averages here, not distributions. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
Sylwester Dziewiecki Interregnum. 465	Posted - 2015.05.12 17:26:00 - [55] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Dear data enthusiasts, here are the average Kill Death Ratios of dropsuits, per race and role for the last 30 days. The reason why I rigged this up, was to check for myself whether Minsaults are as OP as reported, and it doesn't really look like it. What I am surprised at, is actually the overall balance of dropsuits, there are a few outliers, f.ex. Galassaults, but I think it's more the weapon, than the suit. [img]http://puu.sh/hKpgl/5c519a649f.png[/img] Study, enjoy, comment. Question: Is this KDR include Vehicles kills or not? Gallente Speed Scout. EVE side of me: Nosum Hseebnrido
Scheneighnay McBob And the ButtPirates 6569	Posted - 2015.05.12 18:25:00 - [56] - Quote OMFG this is the funniest thread I've read lately. People are crying about caldari suits being UP, when at the proto level, they have the best KD Some details can be ignored
shaman oga Dead Man's Game 4655	Posted - 2015.05.12 18:39:00 - [57] - Quote Can we have numbers of destroyed/killed clones with each dropsuit? Shaman's Shack - A place to trade Training to be a packed RE master launcher
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3101	Posted - 2015.05.12 18:54:00 - [58] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: OMFG this is the funniest thread I've read lately. People are crying about caldari suits being UP, when at the proto level, they have the best KD We're only looking at one metric though. This is only scratching the surface and there's a lot more going on. Yes, they have good KDR's *but why is that the case?* Is it because of the range of their weapons? Maybe partially? Is it because there's only a small 'elite' group using them and there's less 'bad' players bringind down the average? maybe. Is it because people who use these suits practice an incredible amount of risk avoidance behaviour? Probably true in the case of the cal commando. One metric doesn't explain everything I mean I have quite a good idea on why the cal scout and cal commando have the 'best' KDR's, and some ideas on why the assault, logistics and sentinel are up there too but that doesn't mean my ideas are necessarily correct. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
RedBleach LeSanglant Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 810	Posted - 2015.05.12 19:16:00 - [59] - Quote The Caldari logi... that poor poor poor shield frame. So far away from all the others. It is good at dying. 3.19 to all the other logis at the high 1.9's and low 2.0's. Why, oh why? Shielded logis just don't do as well? Poor mobility? Krap for health?... Confidence in shields at the Proto level? The learning that it is just not so? or is the stat based on 3 years ago when the Caldari was the Killer Bee and all assaults ran it as well... could be something there. The Logi Code. Creator, Believer, Follower
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9632	Posted - 2015.05.12 19:40:00 - [60] - Quote RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: The Caldari logi... is the stat based on 3 years ago when the Caldari was the Killer Bee and all assaults ran it as well... could be something there. CCP Rattati wrote: ... for the last 30 days. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)



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