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Can we haz free respecs for people who skilled into ADS?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Swiss Forsaken The Naughty Ninjas Smart Deploy 10	Posted - 2015.05.06 05:44:00 - [1] - Quote Seriously though....I spent a lot of SP just to find out that there's literally no way to make an ADS viable on the battlefield unless your tactic is "make everybody switch to swarms so your team can kill them while you lose isk" and I know I'm not the only person kind of butthurt about it. I spent 15 mil learning to fly DS above par. I then spent 15 mil learning that flying an ADS is absolutely ********. And don't give me any stupid "git gud" reply. If you come here claiming you can survive the swarms, forges, and redline rails in an ADS then you'd better have a video with a timestamp. I've tried everything. Nothing works. And it's not like I can fit anything on it in the first place....So...can I get a refund? I'm not gonna suggest you guys try to balance them, there is no balancing something that's this god awful that has such a high learning curve that gets 3 shotted by a swarm launcher I can teach my grandma to use flawlessly in 5 minutes. I just want my sp back. As I'm sure many others do too.
Knightshade Belladonna Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 1414	Posted - 2015.05.06 05:47:00 - [2] - Quote Swiss Forsaken wrote: Seriously though....I spent a lot of SP just to find out that there's literally no way to make an ADS viable on the battlefield unless your tactic is "make everybody switch to swarms so your team can kill them while you lose isk" and I know I'm not the only person kind of butthurt about it. I spent 15 mil learning to fly DS above par. I then spent 15 mil learning that flying an ADS is absolutely ********. And don't give me any stupid "git gud" reply. If you come here claiming you can survive the swarms, forges, and redline rails in an ADS then you'd better have a video with a timestamp. I've tried everything. Nothing works. And it's not like I can fit anything on it in the first place....So...can I get a refund? I'm not gonna suggest you guys try to balance them, there is no balancing something that's this god awful that has such a high learning curve that gets 3 shotted by a swarm launcher I can teach my grandma to use flawlessly in 5 minutes. I just want my sp back. As I'm sure many others do too. nope get gud( had to cus u said so)..or spend 38k aur live with your choice if you don't want to do one of the 2.. there are some great ads pilots btw, ask them for tips
Operative 1174 Uuali Y.A.M.A.H 642	Posted - 2015.05.06 05:48:00 - [3] - Quote Well, if you accept that the goal is to assist your team in several useful ways rather than copping an "I want my kills now" mentality then the ADS is fun! Death is a serious businessGÇª So is running a shoddy, half-baked game company.
hails8n DEATH BY DESTRUCTION 128	Posted - 2015.05.06 05:59:00 - [4] - Quote Ads were perfect til Rattati nerfed them to their current pathetic state. There were nerfs to rof, afterburners making hit and runs impossibe, recall times, all while buffing swarms in the same update. I remember back when Rattati was showing us his graph of oppurtunity or something which was like 3 seconds to either decide on risking your ship and killing the swarmer or flying away to wait a minute for mods to cool down and repeat. Anyways everyone has a swarm launcher these days and if they don't they can just camp on a 15000 hp turret. Petition to ban the trainyard map.
DUST Fiend 16842	Posted - 2015.05.06 06:23:00 - [5] - Quote I'll wait another 17 months for ADV / PRO LAVs and DSs before I pass judgement, but it takes a kind of "perfect storm" of events to happen in your favor if you plan to slay infantry in any noticeable amount. Otherwise your best bet is providing support fire on vehicles and never getting close to the ground. "When in doubt, dropship out" If you see me, bring AV to collect ISK DUST STUFF

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 21850	Posted - 2015.05.06 07:11:00 - [6] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: I'll wait another 17 months for ADV / PRO LAVs and DSs before I pass judgement, but it takes a kind of "perfect storm" of events to happen in your favor if you plan to slay infantry in any noticeable amount. Otherwise your best bet is providing support fire on vehicles and never getting close to the ground. Let's do something for them instead, since we now have shown that HAVs can be strong (maybe too strong), we can figure them out. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

DUST Fiend 16842	Posted - 2015.05.06 07:21:00 - [7] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I'll wait another 17 months for ADV / PRO LAVs and DSs before I pass judgement, but it takes a kind of "perfect storm" of events to happen in your favor if you plan to slay infantry in any noticeable amount. Otherwise your best bet is providing support fire on vehicles and never getting close to the ground. Let's do something for them instead, since we now have shown that HAVs can be strong (maybe too strong), we can figure them out. Honestly I feel that AV is going to need a buff, I just don't see how anyone can suggest reasonable buffs / changes without these hulls in the game. It would be really awesome if the Amarr / Minmatar placeholders could go in at the same time so we have every vehicle, in game, to test. I know that's asking too much but it's the bottom line if we are EVER going to come to some kind of stability between AV and Vehicles. I think AV is close to being in a good spot, though without some way to slow down tanks, convoys will always be an issue. Depending on the strength of proto ADSs, there may need to be a slight damage buff across the board for AV, but it's difficult to say. A slight buff to maximum elevation of HAVs top small turret could help curb ADS dominance of non redline rail tanks. Right now it's starting to feel like vehicles are their own best counter and I personally like it that way. A single well fit AV should rarely be an immediate threat to a well fit vehicle, but if the vehicle lingers, or if support comes along, then the tables should flip. If you don't feel this to be true, then ISK cost needs to be looked at. We can't have it both ways. Either ISK is a factor, or it isn't. Either you shell out the big money to gain a noticeable impact on the fight, or you pay the same as everyone else for expendable throw away toys. That's your call, but without having all the vehicles in game we're just going to keep circling the drain on this subject like we have been for the past 3 years now. "When in doubt, dropship out" If you see me, bring AV to collect ISK DUST STUFF

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 21850	Posted - 2015.05.06 07:39:00 - [8] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I'll wait another 17 months for ADV / PRO LAVs and DSs before I pass judgement, but it takes a kind of "perfect storm" of events to happen in your favor if you plan to slay infantry in any noticeable amount. Otherwise your best bet is providing support fire on vehicles and never getting close to the ground. Let's do something for them instead, since we now have shown that HAVs can be strong (maybe too strong), we can figure them out. Honestly I feel that AV is going to need a buff, I just don't see how anyone can suggest reasonable buffs / changes without these hulls in the game. It would be really awesome if the Amarr / Minmatar placeholders could go in at the same time so we have every vehicle, in game, to test. I know that's asking too much but it's the bottom line if we are EVER going to come to some kind of stability between AV and Vehicles. I think AV is close to being in a good spot, though without some way to slow down tanks, convoys will always be an issue. Depending on the strength of proto ADSs, there may need to be a slight damage buff across the board for AV, but it's difficult to say. A slight buff to maximum elevation of HAVs top small turret could help curb ADS dominance of non redline rail tanks. Right now it's starting to feel like vehicles are their own best counter and I personally like it that way. A single well fit AV should rarely be an immediate threat to a well fit vehicle, but if the vehicle lingers, or if support comes along, then the tables should flip. If you don't feel this to be true, then ISK cost needs to be looked at. We can't have it both ways. Either ISK is a factor, or it isn't. Either you shell out the big money to gain a noticeable impact on the fight, or you pay the same as everyone else for expendable throw away toys. That's your call, but without having all the vehicles in game we're just going to keep circling the drain on this subject like we have been for the past 3 years now. I actually think we just need to tailor the swarms a bit (lock on and missile travel distance), buff the DS and ADS until they are fairly equal. I hope the small blaster may become a viable choice. LAVs are getting a fitting buff and an extra slot. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

DUST Fiend 16842	Posted - 2015.05.06 07:46:00 - [9] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I actually think we just need to tailor the swarms a bit (lock on and missile travel distance), buff the DS and ADS until they are fairly equal. I hope the small blaster may become a viable choice. LAVs are getting a fitting buff and an extra slot. I'm still a fan of faster swarms with less of a curve (chance to overshoot), shorter flight time and higher damage, but I imagine an effort like that would take way too much. Having an indicator that swarms are following you would be nice at least. As for small blasters, I've said this since the day ADS was introduced, and I will keep on saying it. Unless a proper first person camera is implemented, one that follows the exact same swivel that the turret currently follows, blasters will never be a reliable front gun an ADS. Without being able to actually see what you're shooting at, you're just playing the guessing game. And let's face it, most pilots would very likely crash or become target fixated and get killed as they zone out trying to hunt down that one player. Lacking that level of control has always been a huge pain with flying ADS. At the very least though they may make ok side guns, but unless there's a serious buff to survivability with PRO ships, I think it will remain a novelty. No pilot wants to just hover around waiting to be blasted by all manner of AV while their gunner tries to get some kills, so it'll probably end up as another redline enforcer as far as dropships are concerned. Since the dropship lacks the padding to take a few hits, and the blaster lacks the punch vs vehicles, it leaves blaster dropships in a weird place no matter what kind of buffs you give the blaster. Now, if we could get logi ships back.... "When in doubt, dropship out" If you see me, bring AV to collect ISK DUST STUFF

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 21851	Posted - 2015.05.06 07:51:00 - [10] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I actually think we just need to tailor the swarms a bit (lock on and missile travel distance), buff the DS and ADS until they are fairly equal. I hope the small blaster may become a viable choice. LAVs are getting a fitting buff and an extra slot. I'm still a fan of faster swarms with less of a curve (chance to overshoot), shorter flight time and higher damage, but I imagine an effort like that would take way too much. Having an indicator that swarms are following you would be nice at least. As for small blasters, I've said this since the day ADS was introduced, and I will keep on saying it. Unless a proper first person camera is implemented, one that follows the exact same swivel that the turret currently follows, blasters will never be a reliable front gun an ADS. Without being able to actually see what you're shooting at, you're just playing the guessing game. And let's face it, most pilots would very likely crash or become target fixated and get killed as they zone out trying to hunt down that one player. Lacking that level of control has always been a huge pain with flying ADS. At the very least though they may make ok side guns, but unless there's a serious buff to survivability with PRO ships, I think it will remain a novelty. No pilot wants to just hover around waiting to be blasted by all manner of AV while their gunner tries to get some kills, so it'll probably end up as another redline enforcer as far as dropships are concerned. Since the dropship lacks the padding to take a few hits, and the blaster lacks the punch vs vehicles, it leaves blaster dropships in a weird place no matter what kind of buffs you give the blaster. Now, if we could get logi ships back.... Well, I do want ADSs to be tankhunters with gunners, and DS's to be more durable (maybe even slower), able to react to infantry on the ground if equipped and with gunners. They should be one counter to invincigars "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


Knightshade Belladonna Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 1421	Posted - 2015.05.06 08:01:00 - [11] - Quote so swarm use will go to the wayside , because instead of possible suicide.. it will be suicide to use... guess it's time to start training forge gun prof again.
hails8n DEATH BY DESTRUCTION 131	Posted - 2015.05.06 08:14:00 - [12] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I'll wait another 17 months for ADV / PRO LAVs and DSs before I pass judgement, but it takes a kind of "perfect storm" of events to happen in your favor if you plan to slay infantry in any noticeable amount. Otherwise your best bet is providing support fire on vehicles and never getting close to the ground. Let's do something for them instead, since we now have shown that HAVs can be strong (maybe too strong), we can figure them out. Honestly I feel that AV is going to need a buff, I just don't see how anyone can suggest reasonable buffs / changes without these hulls in the game. It would be really awesome if the Amarr / Minmatar placeholders could go in at the same time so we have every vehicle, in game, to test. I know that's asking too much but it's the bottom line if we are EVER going to come to some kind of stability between AV and Vehicles. I think AV is close to being in a good spot, though without some way to slow down tanks, convoys will always be an issue. Depending on the strength of proto ADSs, there may need to be a slight damage buff across the board for AV, but it's difficult to say. A slight buff to maximum elevation of HAVs top small turret could help curb ADS dominance of non redline rail tanks. Right now it's starting to feel like vehicles are their own best counter and I personally like it that way. A single well fit AV should rarely be an immediate threat to a well fit vehicle, but if the vehicle lingers, or if support comes along, then the tables should flip. If you don't feel this to be true, then ISK cost needs to be looked at. We can't have it both ways. Either ISK is a factor, or it isn't. Either you shell out the big money to gain a noticeable impact on the fight, or you pay the same as everyone else for expendable throw away toys. That's your call, but without having all the vehicles in game we're just going to keep circling the drain on this subject like we have been for the past 3 years now. I actually think we just need to tailor the swarms a bit (lock on and missile travel distance), buff the DS and ADS until they are fairly equal. I hope the small blaster may become a viable choice. LAVs are getting a fitting buff and an extra slot. Give the Ads their rate of fire back and buff cpu/pg so a pg mod isn't mandatory on every fit. Maybe add an extra slot too. Swarms I think should be left alone, because past buff/nerfs in the same update havent worked out well. Ex. Buffing madrugars and nerfing large missles in the same update. The Rof is so low on them madrugars rep through the damage. Petition to ban the trainyard map.
DUST Fiend 16842	Posted - 2015.05.06 08:18:00 - [13] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I actually think we just need to tailor the swarms a bit (lock on and missile travel distance), buff the DS and ADS until they are fairly equal. I hope the small blaster may become a viable choice. LAVs are getting a fitting buff and an extra slot. I'm still a fan of faster swarms with less of a curve (chance to overshoot), shorter flight time and higher damage, but I imagine an effort like that would take way too much. Having an indicator that swarms are following you would be nice at least. As for small blasters, I've said this since the day ADS was introduced, and I will keep on saying it. Unless a proper first person camera is implemented, one that follows the exact same swivel that the turret currently follows, blasters will never be a reliable front gun an ADS. Without being able to actually see what you're shooting at, you're just playing the guessing game. And let's face it, most pilots would very likely crash or become target fixated and get killed as they zone out trying to hunt down that one player. Lacking that level of control has always been a huge pain with flying ADS. At the very least though they may make ok side guns, but unless there's a serious buff to survivability with PRO ships, I think it will remain a novelty. No pilot wants to just hover around waiting to be blasted by all manner of AV while their gunner tries to get some kills, so it'll probably end up as another redline enforcer as far as dropships are concerned. Since the dropship lacks the padding to take a few hits, and the blaster lacks the punch vs vehicles, it leaves blaster dropships in a weird place no matter what kind of buffs you give the blaster. Now, if we could get logi ships back.... Well, I do want ADSs to be tankhunters with gunners, and DS's to be more durable (maybe even slower), able to react to infantry on the ground if equipped and with gunners. They should be one counter to invincigars I personally hate the idea of MLT vehicles, and standard dropships in general, but thats just me. Without the mobility, standard dropships are still far too flimsy to hold up to sustained fire. Perhaps PRO basic ships will help, but mobility is everything. Give them too much tank and they become invincible suicide machines against ADS, with no real role outside of kill platform. Buff their mobility and the ADS loses its edge because the front turret isnt worth as much as all that survivability. Side guns on ADS seem more suited to dog fights because the cut to survivability and hike in cost and effort to be effecient dont lend well to being down near the ground, and thus the AV. Im just curious to see how it all pans out, but I can tell you that even slower dropships aren't going to make anyone but AV happy lol. The only reason good pilots can make flying work is because of the ability to interupt sustained DPS by relocating / dodging. Unless you literally make them as durable as HAVs I doubt youll ever see a slow tanked dropship that doesn't go down in flames before it can escape AV range Small rails could probably use a 10% reduction in efficiency vs shields though, right now they absolutely wreck shields. "When in doubt, dropship out" If you see me, bring AV to collect ISK DUST STUFF
Dead Cavino RestlessSpirits 57	Posted - 2015.05.06 08:32:00 - [14] - Quote I currently love my blaster incubus as a support ship for squad mates. wreck infantry shields then loads of assists.(Great for that pesky vehicle kill assist mission) i hope that small blasters will become more viable in actually killing. Just today i fought a single swarmer with one and simply couldnt kill him. i understand if i get gang raped by 3-4 avers i will instapop. but i feel like i should viably fight off 1 dude. I don't like two-legged things.
Aderek Made in Poland... E-R-A 134	Posted - 2015.05.06 08:42:00 - [15] - Quote So, spent more SP (like about 30 kk SP) on your DropShips and will be fine. I know many merc who are the best pilots on DUST ;) You must do some wrong with your way ;) Good day! dust514.pl, wcogram.pl, i-play24.net MM proto logi 60 kk SP and growing
Aderek Made in Poland... E-R-A 134	Posted - 2015.05.06 08:45:00 - [16] - Quote Dead Cavino wrote: I currently love my blaster incubus as a support ship for squad mates. wreck infantry shields then loads of assists.(Great for that pesky vehicle kill assist mission) i hope that small blasters will become more viable in actually killing. Just today i fought a single swarmer with one and simply couldnt kill him. i understand if i get gang raped by 3-4 avers i will instapop. but i feel like i should viably fight off 1 dude. I love missle turrets on myron ;) I easly can make 15-25 kills per battle with good pilot ;) (Myron + proto eq and turrets cost about 400k ISK) dust514.pl, wcogram.pl, i-play24.net MM proto logi 60 kk SP and growing
shaman oga Dead Man's Game 4576	Posted - 2015.05.06 09:05:00 - [17] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: and DS's to be more durable (maybe even slower) Please don't. The main problem with DS is their incapability to escape. There is no cover mid air, if you need to use your gunners, then you have to fly low (if missile) or stay stationary (if rail). If there's a swarm it can lock you, shoot you the first volley, lock on the second, release and maybe even a third if you don't hit the afterburner immediatly after the first hit. Not considering knock effect. If you need to increase durability, i suggest to buff pg/cpu, add native reps and buff speed/manouverability. Shaman's Shack - A place to trade
Everything Dies Faith No More--Sol Invictus May 19th 1338	Posted - 2015.05.06 09:15:00 - [18] - Quote hails8n wrote: [Give the Ads their rate of fire back No. It was ridiculous how easy it was for an ADS to sit above a tank and wipe them out in less than three seconds with the old RoF (plus the bonus RoF glitch for gunners.) Mike Patton is the greatest singer in music. Proof
Happy Violentime OMFGZOMBIESRUN 1178	Posted - 2015.05.06 09:21:00 - [19] - Quote Sorry you suck in your iwin button. Maybe get gud or htfu or biomass yourself or buy some aurum. Alternatively fill the forum with your QQ
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 2962	Posted - 2015.05.06 09:33:00 - [20] - Quote for me one of the biggest problems with ADS is that swarm launchers do not miss. The level of player skill required for them is trivial. If swarms were dumb fire like plasma cannons, but had a seek range on the projectile (like AV grenades, where if the missile got close enough to a vehicle it homed in) it would still be the 'easy' anti-vehicle weapon, but significantly more player skill would be required than 'herp derp switch to minmando and look at something for 10 seconds before it's dead'. Please rattati, look at the numbers for how often swarms kill vehicles - particularly dropships compared to other av weapons. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.

Pvt Numnutz Prophets of the Velocirapture 2084	Posted - 2015.05.06 09:57:00 - [21] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Well, I do want ADSs to be tankhunters with gunners, and DS's to be more durable (maybe even slower), able to react to infantry on the ground if equipped and with gunners. They should be one counter to invincigars Loving this discussion! Back when redline rail tanks were common in every game my gunners and I got very proficient at preforming steep staffing runs with all three XT missiles pounding the redline tank. We would wait till they were close on the edge and dive, as soon as gunners were in range they had permission to fire, I'd hold the dive for as long as possible and then pull out just grazing the ground while turning and trading some speed for altitude while we got the final hits in on the tank, once destroyed I would slam on the afterburner and make it out with 4-1s on the clock. Such adrenaline!!! I am sad that even with three gunners it's very hard to even tickle a tank in my python these days. I'd love to have effective strafe runs again. Would you possibly consider bringing back cycled missile turrets? Those were great! Please be careful with adjusting speed, my python relies on my speed and maneuverability to stay alive, partially due to the cost of fitting three XT's. If you were to make dropships slower please consider adding the low slot Modules that would trade armor for speed and maneuverability back in the game. Come fly with us Rattati Master Skyshark rider Kaalaka dakka tamer
Pvt Numnutz Prophets of the Velocirapture 2084	Posted - 2015.05.06 10:05:00 - [22] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: I personally hate the idea of MLT vehicles, and standard dropships in general, but thats just me. Without the mobility, standard dropships are still far too flimsy to hold up to sustained fire. Perhaps PRO basic ships will help, but mobility is everything. Give them too much tank and they become invincible suicide machines against ADS, with no real role outside of kill platform. Buff their mobility and the ADS loses its edge because the front turret isnt worth as much as all that survivability. Side guns on ADS seem more suited to dog fights because the cut to survivability and hike in cost and effort to be effecient dont lend well to being down near the ground, and thus the AV. Im just curious to see how it all pans out, but I can tell you that even slower dropships aren't going to make anyone but AV happy lol. The only reason good pilots can make flying work is because of the ability to interupt sustained DPS by relocating / dodging. Unless you literally make them as durable as HAVs I doubt youll ever see a slow tanked dropship that doesn't go down in flames before it can escape AV range Small rails could probably use a 10% reduction in efficiency vs shields though, right now they absolutely wreck shields. I agree with everything dust fiend said above. (Tho I always fly with side guns even at low alt) mobility is life in a dropship. I could never fly a logi ship with its handling, and after getting use to my ADS found STD dropships too barge like. For awesome flying, firepower and tactical insertions ADS is the way to go! Master Skyshark rider Kaalaka dakka tamer
G Clone Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 78	Posted - 2015.05.06 10:05:00 - [23] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I'll wait another 17 months for ADV / PRO LAVs and DSs before I pass judgement, but it takes a kind of "perfect storm" of events to happen in your favor if you plan to slay infantry in any noticeable amount. Otherwise your best bet is providing support fire on vehicles and never getting close to the ground. Let's do something for them instead, since we now have shown that HAVs can be strong (maybe too strong), we can figure them out. Merely an observation... BEST fun I've had in DUST514, have been driving LAVs, or gunning on a dropship. The moments of frantically healing a friendly HAV, while driving to stay near but not in the way, or while jumping on my LAV's turret to help add a bit of DPS, have been exhilarating, challenging, scary, hilarious ... Hooking up with random HAVs to heal them in battle, or while they are on "cool-down" (repping behind the lines), getting on comms with strangers to coordinate efforts, and hearing a frantic shout for me (LLAV) to get away or behind the HAVs before the enemy kills me, has added depth to DUST514, unlike any other game. Getting friends, IRC people or just randoms on my turrets, and driving in to take on HAVs 1-on-1, using speed, agility etc to stay "safe", with someone on comms screaming like a girl (BAMM, Jason etc) as we charge a HAV is so much more engaging that just being an infantry man with a rocket-launcher or plasma-cannon. December 10th, 2013, the release-date of Uprising 1.7, was the day that most of my fun in DUST514 went away...
Aikuchi Tomaru Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2756	Posted - 2015.05.06 10:29:00 - [24] - Quote Swiss Forsaken wrote: Seriously though....I spent a lot of SP just to find out that there's literally no way to make an ADS viable on the battlefield unless your tactic is "make everybody switch to swarms so your team can kill them while you lose isk" and I know I'm not the only person kind of butthurt about it. I spent 15 mil learning to fly DS above par. I then spent 15 mil learning that flying an ADS is absolutely ********. And don't give me any stupid "git gud" reply. If you come here claiming you can survive the swarms, forges, and redline rails in an ADS then you'd better have a video with a timestamp. I've tried everything. Nothing works. And it's not like I can fit anything on it in the first place....So...can I get a refund? I'm not gonna suggest you guys try to balance them, there is no balancing something that's this god awful that has such a high learning curve that gets 3 shotted by a swarm launcher I can teach my grandma to use flawlessly in 5 minutes. I just want my sp back. As I'm sure many others do too. No. Get good, stop crying. Respecs itself are annoying enough. You're not happy, pay CCP. It was so obvious that people will always complain because they don't understand Dusts skill system. Sign up for Caldari FW and defeat the evil Gallente Overlords!
Bremen van Equis Incorruptibles 456	Posted - 2015.05.06 13:24:00 - [25] - Quote Finally invested enough SP to fit an Incubus with a basic armor hardener and a basic damage mod, giving up my afterburner since they really are meaningless resource sinks given the current state of swarm spam. Basic 120 plate and a complex light repper give me the survivability to get in, get the job done and (sometimes) get out. Aggressively trying to finish off tanks gets me killed in the rail fit, trying to farm kills after announcing my presence over the objective gets me killed in the missile fit...it almost feels like it's in a good spot. As long as I don't get greedy and wait for both mods to cool down before reengaging, I am both survivable AND useful. Rattati, the armor hardeners that are making some tanks invincible are also putting the Incubus in a good spot. It can only fit one, so no god-mode here. Of course this fit will never have enough resources to fit a side gun... Buckle up, boysGÇªthis ramp leads to space. -Axe Cop
tal mrak-thanl Corrosive Synergy Rise Of Legion. 995	Posted - 2015.05.06 13:56:00 - [26] - Quote Rattati is actually paying attention to dropships?! Be still my quivering heart. There is something to be said about getting gud in the context of dropships- if you can get really gud, I mean really, really gud at dropships, no amount of av will take you down, and you can slay indiscriminately on the battlefield. There are a handful of piolts in this game that are amazing in an ads, and those guys screw it up for the rest of us scrubs. "That OB was like a wet fart" - Eros Adonai mini flux 2015
Vulpes Dolosus Molon Labe. RUST415 3266	Posted - 2015.05.06 14:19:00 - [27] - Quote I must be the only ADS pilot who thinks AV/ADS balance is more or less fine, at least manageable at the moment. Really the biggest improvements need to be in identifying threats from the air. Rendering needs improvement and the addition of an early warning system for nearby AV. My thought was a special chevron would appear (visible to the pilot only) over any AVer within 100m and performing an aggressive action (swarms locking a target and forges/PLCs charging) and would last about 5 after release. Dust is there! I was real! Dear diary, Rattati senpai noticed me today~
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 1163	Posted - 2015.05.06 14:31:00 - [28] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Well, I do want ADSs to be tankhunters with gunners, and DS's to be more durable (maybe even slower), able to react to infantry on the ground if equipped and with gunners. They should be one counter to invincigars I agree with this direction. You are probably aware of my stance on Swarm Launchers and how I'd like to change them, so I won't reiterate. But I'd like to comment on this thread's actual topic, the ISK sustainability of ADS. The current price point of ADS is prohibitive. AV users complain that it takes 20 minutes to kill an ADS. That's no fun. ADS pilots complain that they die once every 20 minutes and thus drain ISK. That's no fun. Everyone loses. For better gameplay things should kill fast, explode often and be cheap to replace. Moment to moment gameplay. Nobody likes evading AV for a whole match or not-quite-killing a vehicle for a whole match. This is the same problem we're facing with HAVs. @Vulpes Dolosus: I very much agree that (A)DS and AV is balanced right now. I don't understand why people are having trouble with DS especially. A 8k ehp brick with a pro turret is not UP.
Nocturnal Soul Primordial Threat 6266	Posted - 2015.05.06 14:35:00 - [29] - Quote How about tailoring the SL to specific vehicles Assault would have faster missiles with a abysmal turn radius and low to medium damage Breach would have the highest damage with the slowest speed but good turn radius Normal would be a master of none type of Light AV. (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!! The Incursions are back... and they're golden baby!
jordy mack WarRavens 432	Posted - 2015.05.06 14:42:00 - [30] - Quote can u guys imagine swarms instead of dumbfire missile turrets on ads..... then u could buff dropships hp to combat infantry swarms without fear of them being crazy flying death machines. hmmm. Less QQ more PewPew

Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 1050	Posted - 2015.05.06 15:00:00 - [31] - Quote Sorry to break up the love party, but since its been nearly 10 months since the last tweak to dropships (that being the heat buildup on the incubus) and every single dropship suggestion / pilot feedback without fail has either been ignored, mocked as "you pilots are just whining.' I wouldn't hold my breath. 10 months of that kind of response from the devs swapite the shape dropships are in has really seen pilot numbers dwindle to near zero. Either they stopped flying or like the majority, stop playing dust altogether. Provided the dev team made dropships thier priority tomorrow (which they aren't, PC is priority now) its would still be at least 2 months for any sort of change come through. It took nearly six for the tanks and that was with the devs trying out tanking. My advice OP, dont get attacthed to either ship or the isk you will lose to fly it. As soon as you lose your sense of losing 30000 iisk a pop, give it a break for a few matchs, snipe a bit, and pick it up when the map suits you, or when a squad of prostompers are on your side, clearing out ground AV. Rooftop AV, well...hope you have a viper and a heavy suit. But hey, You'll save more controllers that way. Rattati, just go ahead and play with the numbers. Hotfix it daily till it seems okay if you have too. There's not enough pilots left to give you the statistcal data you need, so don't bother. As you have said your self, there are no pilots amongst the devs, and none amongst the CPM, and offering flights has been taken as an insult, so you can't test out before deployment even if you wanted too. If you need opinions, well you have 10 months of it in the feedback section. Nothing more to add to what hasnt been said before. There's not much more to do to make things worse, well except nerfing speed even more. That would make STD dropships even more of a nightmare. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
Riptalis Horizons' Edge 276	Posted - 2015.05.06 15:14:00 - [32] - Quote ADS = huge SP sink for small results. I've been running ADS for a long time now and yes it is very frustrating to handle this. We cannot really decide on a balance factor. AV owns ADS/DS. We figured this as soon as the patch came out that significantly buffed AV. ADS is pretty much just a small support role. The reason I said small was because skilling into AV is nothing compared to ADS. Almost everyone has at least ADV AV. You honestly cannot outrun swarms, even with a AB. Forges take you out in a few hits, while ADS spends the whole match TRYING to look for the AV swarms. And rail tanks can still snipe you with a huge advantage. Another issue is last gen, rendering and invisible swarms and forges. You just take the damage, just take it without knowing a general area where the AV player is. And not to mention the AV knockback it has on ADS/DS. Advice: try to hit and gtfo Python pilot, Logistics mk.0, Assault mk.0, Sentinel mk.0, Scout mk.0 Minmatar Loyalist
Mahal Daj Mahal Tactical Enterprises 148	Posted - 2015.05.06 15:20:00 - [33] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I'll wait another 17 months for ADV / PRO LAVs and DSs before I pass judgement, but it takes a kind of "perfect storm" of events to happen in your favor if you plan to slay infantry in any noticeable amount. Otherwise your best bet is providing support fire on vehicles and never getting close to the ground. Let's do something for them instead, since we now have shown that HAVs can be strong (maybe too strong), we can figure them out. Honestly I feel that AV is going to need a buff, I just don't see how anyone can suggest reasonable buffs / changes without these hulls in the game. It would be really awesome if the Amarr / Minmatar placeholders could go in at the same time so we have every vehicle, in game, to test. I know that's asking too much but it's the bottom line if we are EVER going to come to some kind of stability between AV and Vehicles. I think AV is close to being in a good spot, though without some way to slow down tanks, convoys will always be an issue. Depending on the strength of proto ADSs, there may need to be a slight damage buff across the board for AV, but it's difficult to say. A slight buff to maximum elevation of HAVs top small turret could help curb ADS dominance of non redline rail tanks. Right now it's starting to feel like vehicles are their own best counter and I personally like it that way. A single well fit AV should rarely be an immediate threat to a well fit vehicle, but if the vehicle lingers, or if support comes along, then the tables should flip. If you don't feel this to be true, then ISK cost needs to be looked at. We can't have it both ways. Either ISK is a factor, or it isn't. Either you shell out the big money to gain a noticeable impact on the fight, or you pay the same as everyone else for expendable throw away toys. That's your call, but without having all the vehicles in game we're just going to keep circling the drain on this subject like we have been for the past 3 years now. I actually think we just need to tailor the swarms a bit (lock on and missile travel distance), buff the DS and ADS until they are fairly equal. I hope the small blaster may become a viable choice. LAVs are getting a fitting buff and an extra slot. lol for perspective: I play a dual-box setup with my roommate as the gunner... we have excellent coordination, I'm an above average pilot, she can regularly get 8-15 kills using small missile/railgun turrets in a game using basic and some adv gear. Since the swarm buff, we don't even get in vehicles, but I'm sure that will come around... however regarding the small blaster turret: "they are good for firing at large groups of enemies, facing away from you, when you don't need to do any damage." They feel powerful, they look powerful, but they don't do anything, imho. Their range means the gunner is always at risk, their damage means that they can't counter those threats... I want them to be gud, buy sadly they are bad. -daj See my Post on Crashes: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2413361#post2413361
tal mrak-thanl Corrosive Synergy Rise Of Legion. 996	Posted - 2015.05.06 15:23:00 - [34] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: Sorry to break up the love party, but since its been nearly 10 months since the last tweak to dropships (that being the heat buildup on the incubus) and every single dropship suggestion / pilot feedback without fail has either been ignored, mocked as "you pilots are just whining.' I wouldn't hold my breath. 10 months of that kind of response from the devs swapite the shape dropships are in has really seen pilot numbers dwindle to near zero. Either they stopped flying or like the majority, stop playing dust altogether. Provided the dev team made dropships thier priority tomorrow (which they aren't, PC is priority now) its would still be at least 2 months for any sort of change come through. It took nearly six for the tanks and that was with the devs trying out tanking. My advice OP, dont get attacthed to either ship or the isk you will lose to fly it. As soon as you lose your sense of losing 30000 iisk a pop, give it a break for a few matchs, snipe a bit, and pick it up when the map suits you, or when a squad of prostompers are on your side, clearing out ground AV. Rooftop AV, well...hope you have a viper and a heavy suit. But hey, You'll save more controllers that way. Rattati, just go ahead and play with the numbers. Hotfix it daily till it seems okay if you have too. There's not enough pilots left to give you the statistcal data you need, so don't bother. As you have said your self, there are no pilots amongst the devs, and none amongst the CPM, and offering flights has been taken as an insult, so you can't test out before deployment even if you wanted too. If you need opinions, well you have 10 months of it in the feedback section. Nothing more to add to what hasnt been said before. There's not much more to do to make things worse, well except nerfing speed even more. That would make STD dropships even more of a nightmare. applauds "That OB was like a wet fart" - Eros Adonai mini flux 2015
Mahal Daj Mahal Tactical Enterprises 148	Posted - 2015.05.06 15:24:00 - [35] - Quote Riptalis wrote: ADS = huge SP sink for small results. I've been running ADS for a long time now and yes it is very frustrating to handle this. We cannot really decide on a balance factor. AV owns ADS/DS. We figured this as soon as the patch came out that significantly buffed AV. ADS is pretty much just a small support role. The reason I said small was because skilling into AV is nothing compared to ADS. Almost everyone has at least ADV AV. You honestly cannot outrun swarms, even with a AB. Forges take you out in a few hits, while ADS spends the whole match TRYING to look for the AV swarms. And rail tanks can still snipe you with a huge advantage. Another issue is last gen, rendering and invisible swarms and forges. You just take the damage, just take it without knowing a general area where the AV player is. And not to mention the AV knockback it has on ADS/DS. Advice: try to hit and gtfo question, would you trade 'invulnerability' for stealth? for instance, what if the ADS lit up like a flare, but was able to operate with impunity for 20-30 seconds. This would give some warning to the infantry that could then hide, but it would make the ADS a tide-turner in infantry brawls. Also, 1 person is not supposed to be a showstopper anywhere in the highly cooperative Eve/Dust lore... so its pretty amazing they even have the ADS to begin with. I love it, I just don't want to see it removed. See my Post on Crashes: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2413361#post2413361
Talos Vagheitan Ancient Exiles. 1211	Posted - 2015.05.06 15:32:00 - [36] - Quote My Python is actually fairly survivable I find, as long as I'm playing right. I run a booster and after burner. The key is not lingering too long and attacking enemies like a flying tank, but rather doing quick hit-and-run tactics. Some games the AV is too strong to get near any objectives, in which case I just recall and go on foot. Point is you have to adapt tactics. Not saying "get good" but different situations require you to use it differently. I will agree that survivability should be buffed a bit though. One Forge or Rail Tank can completely keep you at bay from a long ways away. But overall, I think ADS' should still be 'hit and run' machines. Who cares what some sniper has to say. **--CCP, let's push for the license of Dust/Legion on both current Gen consoles-
Apocalyptic Destroyer L.O.T.I.S. 477	Posted - 2015.05.06 15:37:00 - [37] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I'll wait another 17 months for ADV / PRO LAVs and DSs before I pass judgement, but it takes a kind of "perfect storm" of events to happen in your favor if you plan to slay infantry in any noticeable amount. Otherwise your best bet is providing support fire on vehicles and never getting close to the ground. OMG did you break your oath ? You finally commented on an ADS post Let's do something for them instead, since we now have shown that HAVs can be strong (maybe too strong), we can figure them out. True Amarr In Disguise Pain is Weakness Leaving the Body. In his house at R'lyeh dead Cthulhu waits dreaming.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 3188	Posted - 2015.05.06 16:18:00 - [38] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I'll wait another 17 months for ADV / PRO LAVs and DSs before I pass judgement, but it takes a kind of "perfect storm" of events to happen in your favor if you plan to slay infantry in any noticeable amount. Otherwise your best bet is providing support fire on vehicles and never getting close to the ground. Let's do something for them instead, since we now have shown that HAVs can be strong (maybe too strong), we can figure them out. Honestly I feel that AV is going to need a buff, I just don't see how anyone can suggest reasonable buffs / changes without these hulls in the game. It would be really awesome if the Amarr / Minmatar placeholders could go in at the same time so we have every vehicle, in game, to test. I know that's asking too much but it's the bottom line if we are EVER going to come to some kind of stability between AV and Vehicles. I think AV is close to being in a good spot, though without some way to slow down tanks, convoys will always be an issue. Depending on the strength of proto ADSs, there may need to be a slight damage buff across the board for AV, but it's difficult to say. A slight buff to maximum elevation of HAVs top small turret could help curb ADS dominance of non redline rail tanks. Right now it's starting to feel like vehicles are their own best counter and I personally like it that way. A single well fit AV should rarely be an immediate threat to a well fit vehicle, but if the vehicle lingers, or if support comes along, then the tables should flip. If you don't feel this to be true, then ISK cost needs to be looked at. We can't have it both ways. Either ISK is a factor, or it isn't. Either you shell out the big money to gain a noticeable impact on the fight, or you pay the same as everyone else for expendable throw away toys. That's your call, but without having all the vehicles in game we're just going to keep circling the drain on this subject like we have been for the past 3 years now. AV should not be based on a single person being able to solo a tank. Please move on already. Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
DUST Fiend 16847	Posted - 2015.05.06 16:20:00 - [39] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I'll wait another 17 months for ADV / PRO LAVs and DSs before I pass judgement, but it takes a kind of "perfect storm" of events to happen in your favor if you plan to slay infantry in any noticeable amount. Otherwise your best bet is providing support fire on vehicles and never getting close to the ground. Let's do something for them instead, since we now have shown that HAVs can be strong (maybe too strong), we can figure them out. Honestly I feel that AV is going to need a buff, I just don't see how anyone can suggest reasonable buffs / changes without these hulls in the game. It would be really awesome if the Amarr / Minmatar placeholders could go in at the same time so we have every vehicle, in game, to test. I know that's asking too much but it's the bottom line if we are EVER going to come to some kind of stability between AV and Vehicles. I think AV is close to being in a good spot, though without some way to slow down tanks, convoys will always be an issue. Depending on the strength of proto ADSs, there may need to be a slight damage buff across the board for AV, but it's difficult to say. A slight buff to maximum elevation of HAVs top small turret could help curb ADS dominance of non redline rail tanks. Right now it's starting to feel like vehicles are their own best counter and I personally like it that way. A single well fit AV should rarely be an immediate threat to a well fit vehicle, but if the vehicle lingers, or if support comes along, then the tables should flip. If you don't feel this to be true, then ISK cost needs to be looked at. We can't have it both ways. Either ISK is a factor, or it isn't. Either you shell out the big money to gain a noticeable impact on the fight, or you pay the same as everyone else for expendable throw away toys. That's your call, but without having all the vehicles in game we're just going to keep circling the drain on this subject like we have been for the past 3 years now. AV should not be based on a single person being able to solo a tank. Please move on already. You don't read very often, do you? "When in doubt, dropship out" If you see me, bring AV to collect ISK DUST STUFF
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1995	Posted - 2015.05.06 16:28:00 - [40] - Quote Respec thread number #1087. AND a sharp poke to those people who claimed that these respec threads will end once we get respecs at will / unlimited respecs. Looking at both sides of the coin. Even Aurum one.

Marcus Stormfire G.R.A.V.E The Ditanian Alliance 78	Posted - 2015.05.06 17:01:00 - [41] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I'll wait another 17 months for ADV / PRO LAVs and DSs before I pass judgement, but it takes a kind of "perfect storm" of events to happen in your favor if you plan to slay infantry in any noticeable amount. Otherwise your best bet is providing support fire on vehicles and never getting close to the ground. Let's do something for them instead, since we now have shown that HAVs can be strong (maybe too strong), we can figure them out. Some Thoughts. Problem: ADS is having issues with swarm launchers. Possible Solution: - Implement a limited line of sight for swarm missiles. Current mechanics the Swarm missiles will follow you to the end of the earth no matter how sharp you turn (viable tactics being run like hell or get behind something.) It always seemed odd to me that the swarms could immediately snap back onto you with a perma lock. ADS's should be able to shake them if the pilot is good. And/Or -Introduce active electronic countermeasures. Percentage based chance to jam missile targeting per level. Sacrifice a shield slot. Incubus will have to either fit its prop mod or jammer. Python sacrifices a section of its tank but can retain it's speed. 50m pulse range. No effect vs rail based weaponry or dumb-fire missiles. Problem: Small Blasters (Sort of suck). Possible solution: - Balance them for Gun runs and strafe tactics. Area denial weapon? Right now we have, rail =AV/AI Missiles AI/AV. The AV and AI small turrets are covered. The EvE blaster dogma of high damage low range does not have to be a 100% copy. Perhaps make them a longer range less damage/less dispersion team support weapon when on an ADS main gun. -Marcus -I don't always kill Mercs with a sidearm, But when I do I use militia.
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game RUST415 2004	Posted - 2015.05.06 17:09:00 - [42] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Respec thread number #1087. AND a sharp poke to those people who claimed that these respec threads will end once we get respecs at will / unlimited respecs. ^^ Still got it going on ^^ Regarding ADS.. I think 'Talos' makes the best comments.. it is situational. In PC ADS still turns the tide of battle and is a force to be reckoned with while attacking/defending objectives But there are times where an AV nest is covering that objective and your ADS becomes a WP farm for AV.. So it's a matter of knowing when to, and when not to use an ADS.. mercs just can't accept that I am an average pilot (that's being being nice about it) 80% of my deaths in ADS are caused by me But I can still clear area's and keep my ship alive when the situation is clear of AV spam.. For those QQing the SP investment.. that's all optional, just like infantry's reload/ammo/sharpshooter/profiency/fitting op You can fit a viable ADS for about 3mil SP, sure you are lacking some bonuses, but to say it does not work is BS Public matches are no place for an ADS anymore, way too many blueberries dedicate to WP farming off AV And there is a high chance of cowardly tankers sniping, or a maxed railbus making a quick end to you.. I spent a lot of time watching the patterns of good pilots manboar/axlkazik/denchlad/parth0k/derrith/jamaican/derpty/diego And you can learn a lot just by seeing how they react to certain situations in battle... Thats only half of it though, seeing what you need to do only gets you so far.. knowledge is power And for that I thank 'Derrith Erador' for taking the time to squad with a blueberry pilot and offer great input - such as your situational awareness, knowing where the AV is before they hit you - when outnumberd by AV trying to be a hero will cost you an ADS - timing your attacks based on how how many rounds the AV is firing at you (I don't do him justice so I'll stfu, but he used small words and crayons and highlighted a lot of good info) Since then I actually hold some chance when in flight and engaging AV... TL;DR = Pay some attention, don't expect game mechanics to win battles for you ^ seems ironic when the rapid reload swarmando's have it handed to them Te Sbundo'd
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 1051	Posted - 2015.05.06 17:33:00 - [43] - Quote TheD1CK wrote: KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Respec thread number #1087. AND a sharp poke to those people who claimed that these respec threads will end once we get respecs at will / unlimited respecs. ^^ Still got it going on ^^ Regarding ADS.. I think 'Talos' makes the best comments.. it is situational. In PC ADS still turns the tide of battle and is a force to be reckoned with while attacking/defending objectives But there are times where an AV nest is covering that objective and your ADS becomes a WP farm for AV.. So it's a matter of knowing when to, and when not to use an ADS.. mercs just can't accept that I am an average pilot (that's being being nice about it) 80% of my deaths in ADS are caused by me But I can still clear area's and keep my ship alive when the situation is clear of AV spam.. For those QQing the SP investment.. that's all optional, just like infantry's reload/ammo/sharpshooter/profiency/fitting op You can fit a viable ADS for about 3mil SP, sure you are lacking some bonuses, but to say it does not work is BS Public matches are no place for an ADS anymore, way too many blueberries dedicate to WP farming off AV And there is a high chance of cowardly tankers sniping, or a maxed railbus making a quick end to you.. I spent a lot of time watching the patterns of good pilots manboar/axlkazik/denchlad/parth0k/derrith/jamaican/derpty/diego And you can learn a lot just by seeing how they react to certain situations in battle... Thats only half of it though, seeing what you need to do only gets you so far.. knowledge is power And for that I thank 'Derrith Erador' for taking the time to squad with a blueberry pilot and offer great input - such as your situational awareness, knowing where the AV is before they hit you - when outnumberd by AV trying to be a hero will cost you an ADS - timing your attacks based on how how many rounds the AV is firing at you (I don't do him justice so I'll stfu, but he used small words and crayons and highlighted a lot of good info) Since then I actually hold some chance when in flight and engaging AV... TL;DR = Pay some attention, don't expect game mechanics to win battles for you ^ seems ironic when the rapid reload swarmando's have it handed to them Also to add, you have to know when to recall your ADS. If AV is dominating the map, just put it away. Your biggest tactical asset is the ability to select which areas to target and (provided you escape) which ones to avoid. And thanks for pointing out PC and Pubs require very different flying styles. What works in PC (sacrifice numerous dropshis if need be, reliable teamates and a limited number of albeit powerful AV ) wont work as well in a pub (carefully selecting targets, dropship survivability takes priority over points haul, multiple low to high level AV, little team support), and what works in a pub is nowhere near effective enough for PC flying. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
hails8n DEATH BY DESTRUCTION 132	Posted - 2015.05.06 17:41:00 - [44] - Quote Everything Dies wrote: hails8n wrote: [Give the Ads their rate of fire back No. It was ridiculous how easy it was for an ADS to sit above a tank and wipe them out in less than three seconds with the old RoF (plus the bonus RoF glitch for gunners.) New tanks are way harder to break than last years tanks. Ads are meant to be hit and run platforms, little hp and alot of firepower.They can the perfect counter to the current op tanks. Petition to ban the trainyard map.
DUST Fiend 16847	Posted - 2015.05.06 17:50:00 - [45] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: TheD1CK wrote: KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Respec thread number #1087. AND a sharp poke to those people who claimed that these respec threads will end once we get respecs at will / unlimited respecs. ^^ Still got it going on ^^ Regarding ADS.. I think 'Talos' makes the best comments.. it is situational. In PC ADS still turns the tide of battle and is a force to be reckoned with while attacking/defending objectives But there are times where an AV nest is covering that objective and your ADS becomes a WP farm for AV.. So it's a matter of knowing when to, and when not to use an ADS.. mercs just can't accept that I am an average pilot (that's being being nice about it) 80% of my deaths in ADS are caused by me But I can still clear area's and keep my ship alive when the situation is clear of AV spam.. For those QQing the SP investment.. that's all optional, just like infantry's reload/ammo/sharpshooter/profiency/fitting op You can fit a viable ADS for about 3mil SP, sure you are lacking some bonuses, but to say it does not work is BS Public matches are no place for an ADS anymore, way too many blueberries dedicate to WP farming off AV And there is a high chance of cowardly tankers sniping, or a maxed railbus making a quick end to you.. I spent a lot of time watching the patterns of good pilots manboar/axlkazik/denchlad/parth0k/derrith/jamaican/derpty/diego And you can learn a lot just by seeing how they react to certain situations in battle... Thats only half of it though, seeing what you need to do only gets you so far.. knowledge is power And for that I thank 'Derrith Erador' for taking the time to squad with a blueberry pilot and offer great input - such as your situational awareness, knowing where the AV is before they hit you - when outnumberd by AV trying to be a hero will cost you an ADS - timing your attacks based on how how many rounds the AV is firing at you (I don't do him justice so I'll stfu, but he used small words and crayons and highlighted a lot of good info) Since then I actually hold some chance when in flight and engaging AV... TL;DR = Pay some attention, don't expect game mechanics to win battles for you ^ seems ironic when the rapid reload swarmando's have it handed to them Also to add, you have to know when to recall your ADS. If AV is dominating the map, just put it away. Your biggest tactical asset is the ability to select which areas to target and (provided you escape) which ones to avoid. And thanks for pointing out PC and Pubs require very different flying styles. What works in PC (sacrifice numerous dropshis if need be, reliable teamates and a limited number of albeit powerful AV ) wont work as well in a pub (carefully selecting targets, dropship survivability takes priority over points haul, multiple low to high level AV, little team support), and what works in a pub is nowhere near effective enough for PC flying. DONT TELL ME HOW TO LIVE MY LIFE!!! The more, stronger AV is fielded, the more inclined I am deploy again and again again. But, I dont play to win, I play to blow stuff up. Nothing beats flying solo against a full squad of tryhard AVers "When in doubt, dropship out" If you see me, bring AV to collect ISK DUST STUFF
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 2969	Posted - 2015.05.06 18:22:00 - [46] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: Also to add, you have to know when to recall your ADS. If AV is dominating the map, just put it away. Your biggest tactical asset is the ability to select which areas to target and (provided you escape) which ones to avoid. And thanks for pointing out PC and Pubs require very different flying styles. What works in PC (sacrifice numerous dropshis if need be, reliable teamates and a limited number of albeit powerful AV ) wont work as well in a pub (carefully selecting targets, dropship survivability takes priority over points haul, multiple low to high level AV, little team support), and what works in a pub is nowhere near effective enough for PC flying. Can be almost impossible to know this as it's so **ing easy to have multiple people run to a nearby supply depot and swap to an av fit in a few seconds. Even easier if people are defending a point (and doing so from high spots with commandos that pack swarms / plasma cannons!) Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.** I have a few alts.
Lynn Beck Delta Vanguard 6 2409	Posted - 2015.05.06 18:29:00 - [47] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: for me one of the biggest problems with ADS is that swarm launchers do not miss. The level of player skill required for them is trivial. If swarms were dumb fire like plasma cannons, but had a seek range on the projectile (like AV grenades, where if the missile got close enough to a vehicle it homed in) it would still be the 'easy' anti-vehicle weapon, but significantly more player skill would be required than 'herp derp switch to minmando and look at something for 10 seconds before it's dead'. Please rattati, look at the numbers for how often swarms kill vehicles - particularly dropships compared to other av weapons. Make that a minmatar AV option- Burst MD: Fires AV nades which deal 600 damage a shot, fire 3 in a row, and has a 3 shot clip, with noticably slow refire time. General John Ripper -BAM! I'm Emeril Lagasse. This message was approved by the 'Nobody Loved You' Foundation'
STYLIE77 KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 670	Posted - 2015.05.06 19:24:00 - [48] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: for me one of the biggest problems with ADS is that swarm launchers do not miss. The level of player skill required for them is trivial. If swarms were dumb fire like plasma cannons, but had a seek range on the projectile (like AV grenades, where if the missile got close enough to a vehicle it homed in) it would still be the 'easy' anti-vehicle weapon, but significantly more player skill would be required than 'herp derp switch to minmando and look at something for 10 seconds before it's dead'. Please rattati, look at the numbers for how often swarms kill vehicles - particularly dropships compared to other av weapons. This whole thread is full of players wanting to have invincible vehicles with no counters. You guys have asked for buffs to every thing on the ADS. I don't miss the days of ADS pilots going 40-0 all night. I don't miss the days of blaster tanks going 40-0 all night. "Don't take skill" GO play world of tanks. To hell with being a duck in your shooting gallery. Pilots want to be able to solo a 16 man team and want it to require up to 3 people to shoot them down because of "price" or "skill". What you guys really want is the ability to have invincible KDR Boosting machines, where the fight is all about who gets their tanks on the field first or who has the most ADS in the air. I played that version of Dust 514 in the past, all infantry suffered... despite actually spawning in on their FIRST SPAWN with AV as a team. It didn't matter how many tanks or ships were shot down, more were spammed. Dust devolved into a game of hide and seek from the OP vehicles while an occasional objective hack happened. It was Tanks 514 and Dropship 514. Vehicles become too strong then the game isn't about the objectives, it is about taking out OP vehicles while their team mates help kill you. You turn into a duck in a shooting gallery... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=no0JmLFGzdQ http://caughtyouflinching.ytmnd.com/
DUST Fiend 16849	Posted - 2015.05.06 19:30:00 - [49] - Quote Yet the flip side has also happened at one point or the other where all vehicles were basically just paper waiting to be set on fire. The difficult part from a design decision is where to take it. Do we go your route, and stick with the more classic CoD style vehicles: cheap (read: free) and solo'd by anyone. Or do we make them expensive force multipliers, requiring a dedicated task force to deter any and all vehicle threats? I think right now we're trying to find that middle ground. If you want the CoD style gameplay then either vehicle cost has to go WAY down or AV cost has to go WAY up, to help justify the 1vs1 mentality. As I've stated, AV could still use some small buffs, but without having all the vehicles in we're just going to keep on going in circles trying to balance something that's only half done. "When in doubt, dropship out" If you see me, bring AV to collect ISK DUST STUFF
Pvt Numnutz Prophets of the Velocirapture 2088	Posted - 2015.05.06 19:52:00 - [50] - Quote I remember when swarms had a 500m lock range, tanks were blapping me from their red line and street lamps were instant kills for my dropship. We are closer to balance now, but still need some work obviously. Master Skyshark rider Kaalaka dakka tamer

MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 2970	Posted - 2015.05.06 19:54:00 - [51] - Quote STYLIE77 wrote: Crazy ranting If you cant be reasonable and exchange information like a rational human being without shouting, screaming or ranting, you do not need to be part of the narrative. If you're just here to shout, harass and make baseless accusations I will consider your opinion about as much as I consider the opinion of other unreasonable people like speaker4thedead, which is not at all. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Nocturnal Soul Primordial Threat 6266	Posted - 2015.05.06 20:13:00 - [52] - Quote How about tailoring the SL to specific vehicles (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!! The Incursions are back... and they're golden baby!
Scheneighnay McBob And the ButtPirates 6441	Posted - 2015.05.06 20:18:00 - [53] - Quote I love how people always cry for a respec rather than crying for a buff. That is the sound of a FoTM chaser, not a dedicated ADS pilot. Some details can be ignored
DUST Fiend 16854	Posted - 2015.05.06 21:20:00 - [54] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: I love how people always cry for a respec rather than crying for a buff. That is the sound of a FoTM chaser, not a dedicated ADS pilot. Dedicated ADS pilots are basically just people who REALLY hate themselves Getting solo'd by swarms that follow literally over halfway across most maps just because you waited an extra .03 seconds to land another shot on a vehicle is pretty lame, but it's part of the game. Real AVers get kills, and then Sorya's come to the forums and to CCP and whine that vehicles can't ever be killed by anything ever. "When in doubt, dropship out" If you see me, bring AV to collect ISK DUST STUFF
Chuck Nurris DCLXVI Enlightened Infantries Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 31	Posted - 2015.05.06 21:23:00 - [55] - Quote Swiss Forsaken wrote: And don't give me any stupid "git gud" reply. No. I'd probably use superior spelling and sentence structure, and ask you to train more to get better. And I'm not referring to more skill books, but actual, hands on flying. Flying in Dust is not easy, in fact it's extremely hard and frustrating. Yet some people seem to excel at it. Really. Considering how much havoc ADSes cause on most batlefields, training really does help. I can fly them, and I lose them just as often. It's fun while it last, but the ADS isn't impervious to team play. 1 guy with a swarm or a Forge Gun vs. a bad pilot = a dead ADS. As it should be. 3-4 guys coordinating an attack with AV gear vs an ADS, should be able to kill it, easily.
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 1053	Posted - 2015.05.06 22:19:00 - [56] - Quote Chuck Nurris DCLXVI wrote: Swiss Forsaken wrote: And don't give me any stupid "git gud" reply. No. I'd probably use superior spelling and sentence structure, and ask you to train more to get better. And I'm not referring to more skill books, but actual, hands on flying. Flying in Dust is not easy, in fact it's extremely hard and frustrating. Yet some people seem to excel at it. Really. Considering how much havoc ADSes cause on most batlefields, training really does help. I can fly them, and I lose them just as often. It's fun while it last, but the ADS isn't impervious to team play. 1 guy with a swarm or a Forge Gun vs. a bad pilot = a dead ADS. As it should be. 3-4 guys coordinating an attack with AV gear vs an ADS, should be able to kill it, easily. This is the problem with the whole ADS balance issue, its always been black and white. 4-5 guys shooting at one ADS should have a high probability of scoring a kill, instead of a certainty. Just like an assault suit has a high robability of dying vs a group of playes but still has a chance to get away. Which, anybody who's walked into the wrong room and made it out will tell you, its a regular occurance for infantry. Maybe 3-4 guys shoot at me, i manage to dadge salvo 1 and 2 but eat salvo 3 through 4 and live. Maybe with one well placed excellent swarmer smashes me before i can even move. But despite threads to encourage some nuance and try to enforce skill vs skill mechanics, we have either dropships win 100% or swarmers win 100%. I'm not happy with either mechanic actually. Nuance, context and skill is what make it a nerve racking, but fun fight. Which is why pilots hate/respect forge gunners but just hate/hate swarms. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
Diablo Gamekeeper Escrow Removal and Acquisition 198	Posted - 2015.05.06 22:31:00 - [57] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I'll wait another 17 months for ADV / PRO LAVs and DSs before I pass judgement, but it takes a kind of "perfect storm" of events to happen in your favor if you plan to slay infantry in any noticeable amount. Otherwise your best bet is providing support fire on vehicles and never getting close to the ground. Let's do something for them instead, since we now have shown that HAVs can be strong (maybe too strong), we can figure them out. Yeah, like give us respecs :). It will be over soon, and when the Dust settles, no one will be left playing.
Mobius Wyvern Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 6302	Posted - 2015.05.06 23:01:00 - [58] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I actually think we just need to tailor the swarms a bit (lock on and missile travel distance), buff the DS and ADS until they are fairly equal. I hope the small blaster may become a viable choice. LAVs are getting a fitting buff and an extra slot. I'm still a fan of faster swarms with less of a curve (chance to overshoot), shorter flight time and higher damage, but I imagine an effort like that would take way too much. Having an indicator that swarms are following you would be nice at least. As for small blasters, I've said this since the day ADS was introduced, and I will keep on saying it. Unless a proper first person camera is implemented, one that follows the exact same swivel that the turret currently follows, blasters will never be a reliable front gun an ADS. Without being able to actually see what you're shooting at, you're just playing the guessing game. And let's face it, most pilots would very likely crash or become target fixated and get killed as they zone out trying to hunt down that one player. Lacking that level of control has always been a huge pain with flying ADS. At the very least though they may make ok side guns, but unless there's a serious buff to survivability with PRO ships, I think it will remain a novelty. No pilot wants to just hover around waiting to be blasted by all manner of AV while their gunner tries to get some kills, so it'll probably end up as another redline enforcer as far as dropships are concerned. Since the dropship lacks the padding to take a few hits, and the blaster lacks the punch vs vehicles, it leaves blaster dropships in a weird place no matter what kind of buffs you give the blaster. Now, if we could get logi ships back.... Well, I do want ADSs to be tankhunters with gunners, and DS's to be more durable (maybe even slower), able to react to infantry on the ground if equipped and with gunners. They should be one counter to invincigars Tank hunting was my favorite part of being a pilot before the Missile RoF nerf and Swarm buffs. If you can give me back the ability to save my team mates from tanks, I may just have to respec again. Also, while you're at it, could the problem of the side guns only hitting the Drop ship while aimed forward be addressed? That geometry issue makes it very hard to focus fire on a single target. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Swiss Forsaken The Naughty Ninjas Smart Deploy 14	Posted - 2015.05.06 23:41:00 - [59] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: for me one of the biggest problems with ADS is that swarm launchers do not miss. The level of player skill required for them is trivial. If swarms were dumb fire like plasma cannons, but had a seek range on the projectile (like AV grenades, where if the missile got close enough to a vehicle it homed in) it would still be the 'easy' anti-vehicle weapon, but significantly more player skill would be required than 'herp derp switch to minmando and look at something for 10 seconds before it's dead'. Please rattati, look at the numbers for how often swarms kill vehicles - particularly dropships compared to other av weapons. Thank you! Swarms merc an ADS more than any other weapon, probably more than all the others AND suicides combined. The learning curve/potential profit ratio for ADS versus learning curve/potential profit ratio for swarms is ridiculous. It takes time and practice to learn to fly an ADS and I can teach literally hand the control to my 9 year old autistic cousin and have him popping dropships in a matter of minutes. That's not balance. This "if it flies it should die" mentality that has been going on for god knows how long is going to encourage players to hone skills in any way. They simply pick up swarms and kill every dropship that comes within 175 meters of them (BTW YOU CAN'T EVEN F***ING SEE A SWARMER FROM 175 METERS WHEN YOU'RE IN A DROPSHIP! HE DOESN'T EVEN RENDER!!)
Swiss Forsaken The Naughty Ninjas Smart Deploy 14	Posted - 2015.05.06 23:55:00 - [60] - Quote STYLIE77 wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: for me one of the biggest problems with ADS is that swarm launchers do not miss. The level of player skill required for them is trivial. If swarms were dumb fire like plasma cannons, but had a seek range on the projectile (like AV grenades, where if the missile got close enough to a vehicle it homed in) it would still be the 'easy' anti-vehicle weapon, but significantly more player skill would be required than 'herp derp switch to minmando and look at something for 10 seconds before it's dead'. Please rattati, look at the numbers for how often swarms kill vehicles - particularly dropships compared to other av weapons. This whole thread is full of players wanting to have invincible vehicles with no counters. You guys have asked for buffs to every thing on the ADS. I don't miss the days of ADS pilots going 40-0 all night. I don't miss the days of blaster tanks going 40-0 all night. "Don't take skill" GO play world of tanks. To hell with being a duck in your shooting gallery. Pilots want to be able to solo a 16 man team and want it to require up to 3 people to shoot them down because of "price" or "skill". What you guys really want is the ability to have invincible KDR Boosting machines, where the fight is all about who gets their tanks on the field first or who has the most ADS in the air. I played that version of Dust 514 in the past, all infantry suffered... despite actually spawning in on their FIRST SPAWN with AV as a team. It didn't matter how many tanks or ships were shot down, more were spammed. Dust devolved into a game of hide and seek from the OP vehicles while an occasional objective hack happened. It was Tanks 514 and Dropship 514. Vehicles become too strong then the game isn't about the objectives, it is about taking out OP vehicles while their team mates help kill you. You turn into a duck in a shooting gallery... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=no0JmLFGzdQ On the inverse of your argument ADS and DS are just ducks in your "don't even aim and still hit everything" shooting gallery. Swarms require virtually no skill to use. Anyone can do it. You get to pop well-fitted dropships like your throwing darts with your eyes closed at a piece of plywood with balloons taped all over it. Currently as far as ADS and DS are concerned it's Swarm 514. 1 swarmer can easily take out over 80% of the dropships it comes across, the other 20% crashed into the ground. I don't agree with dropship pilots getting a few forevers to hop out of their dropship before it explodes but that's the only thing keeping you from getting an extra 50 points on top of your 250 points for popping one dropship that took literally no effort.

Swiss Forsaken The Naughty Ninjas Smart Deploy 15	Posted - 2015.05.07 00:01:00 - [61] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: I love how people always cry for a respec rather than crying for a buff. That is the sound of a FoTM chaser, not a dedicated ADS pilot. I'm not chasing a fit of the month, I don't use a scrambler, laser, rail, I don't camp the redline with a railtank. I literally don't even have a proto weapon or suit or vehicle. I just want to actually be able to survive 1 person with swarms in my ADS without having to afterburn to the top of the map like a p*ssy and hope I got out quick enough.
Moochie Cricket Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 1187	Posted - 2015.05.07 00:08:00 - [62] - Quote Python is fine don't really know about the Incubus swarms are broken and OP is an idiot. FOR THE STATE
Heimdallr69 Negative-Feedback. 5144	Posted - 2015.05.07 00:17:00 - [63] - Quote Once this is done we can bring in water so I can use my destroyers and have water fights! Or let me fly a jet Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
Swiss Forsaken The Naughty Ninjas Smart Deploy 15	Posted - 2015.05.07 00:28:00 - [64] - Quote Moochie Cricket wrote: Python is fine don't really know about the Incubus swarms are broken and OP is an idiot. Sure just hop on in the thread, say absolutely nothing other than that you don't know anything about the incubus, call me an idiot and then go on with your day like you've done something productive.
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 2060	Posted - 2015.05.07 00:33:00 - [65] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: Tank hunting was my favorite part of being a pilot before the Missile RoF nerf and Swarm buffs. If you can give me back the ability to save my team mates from tanks, I may just have to respec again. Also, while you're at it, could the problem of the side guns only hitting the Drop ship while aimed forward be addressed? That geometry issue makes it very hard to focus fire on a single target. You can still tank hunt , I do it and is one of the reasons that I use ADS's , I don't have to worry about some random just jumping into my vehicle shooting all the ammo out of my turrets ( because we don't have a kick feature ) and just jumping out at the first sign of trouble ... I kill HAV's easily because I know how to hover and I do it right out of their LOS because I know how vehicle mechanics work from my numerous respec's ... I tried everything so I won't get mad when I die from some supposed fluke $h!t and so I know how things actually work , shame that others don't do the same instead of buying 4 and 5 BPO's but that's another story , ADS's are fine .. even v.s. swarms because with an AB you can out run them but it seems that no one tries so you get a ton of complaints . It was easy mode the way that it was before so all of you asking to be reverted , shows how your lacking in your flight skills because you can surely make due with the way things are right now if you know what your doing . Step up your flight game people . Doubts are like bothersome flies and should be treated as such and crushed . #PubsShouldBeRandomPlayers
Swiss Forsaken The Naughty Ninjas Smart Deploy 15	Posted - 2015.05.07 00:35:00 - [66] - Quote Operative 1174 Uuali wrote: Well, if you accept that the goal is to assist your team in several useful ways rather than copping an "I want my kills now" mentality then the ADS is fun! If ADS are so useful then why don't I ever see an ADS doing anything other than crashing to the ground, they're rarely ever in the killfeed for more than 1 or two kills before literally everyone on the opposing team standing within 100 meters of a supply depot switches to swarms and ganks it out of the sky. When I'm driving around in my tank and an ADS flies over me and starts shooting I literally just keep driving like he's not even there. He's in no way a threat to me unless he decides to crash into me (which is a rather good choice considering he's going to die anyway) There are no useful tactics for ADS involving eliminating enemy players unless it's "hey fly an ads over this objective so that they all switch to swarms and then we'll come in and kill them all while you lose isk"
Swiss Forsaken The Naughty Ninjas Smart Deploy 15	Posted - 2015.05.07 00:39:00 - [67] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: Tank hunting was my favorite part of being a pilot before the Missile RoF nerf and Swarm buffs. If you can give me back the ability to save my team mates from tanks, I may just have to respec again. Also, while you're at it, could the problem of the side guns only hitting the Drop ship while aimed forward be addressed? That geometry issue makes it very hard to focus fire on a single target. You can still tank hunt , I do it and is one of the reasons that I use ADS's , I don't have to worry about some random just jumping into my vehicle shooting all the ammo out of my turrets ( because we don't have a kick feature ) and just jumping out at the first sign of trouble ... I kill HAV's easily because I know how to hover and I do it right out of their LOS because I know how vehicle mechanics work from my numerous respec's ... I tried everything so I won't get mad when I die from some supposed fluke $h!t and so I know how things actually work , shame that others don't do the same instead of buying 4 and 5 BPO's but that's another story , ADS's are fine .. even v.s. swarms because with an AB you can out run them but it seems that no one tries so you get a ton of complaints . It was easy mode the way that it was before so all of you asking to be reverted , shows how your lacking in your flight skills because you can surely make due with the way things are right now if you know what your doing . Step up your flight game people . Footage or GTFO. I've literally never been in any danger from an ADS while driving my tank and I will literally pay you 10million isk if you can pop my tank with your ADS. Just send me a mail and we'll work out a time to Qsync a factional on opposite sides.
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 961	Posted - 2015.05.07 00:52:00 - [68] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Well, I do want ADSs to be tankhunters with gunners, and DS's to be more durable (maybe even slower), able to react to infantry on the ground if equipped and with gunners. They should be one counter to invincigars Dropship turrets have nowehere near the DPS to break the tanking on any HAV. Espacially since you nerfed the ADS bonuses into the ground. To be fairly honest the only way how a dropship could take on a tank is if the passangers (who are not on a turret) could use their light/heavy weapons from inside of the dropship. That way they can keep pummeling the tank until it blows up or finds cover. I mean common why else could we pilots open the side doors when hitting "X" while beeing in mid air? You want a solution vs "OP tanks" then there it is on a silver plate. Do not change any vehicle module, do not buff any AV just allow people to use their weapons from a passanger seat in a dropship/lav. Ya know just like you could do it on Halo cause it requires teamwork to do. A pilot/driver and at least 1 guy who is willing to jump into your LAV/Dropship. Lav's could be used as fast glass cannons and dropships for multi purpose team support. Both vehicles can allready be taken out quite easily with a swarm launcher. And it adds diversity to the game plus every 1 loves to blow up a tank espacially since they are hard to kill these days. And before people call out the apocalypse with a dropship that has 4 massdrivers i would like to offer something to make the usage of small missile appealing over a massdriver: Buff small missile blast radius back to 5m but nerf the splash damage in return. That way a small missile turret will allways be the better choice from a dropship cause of the fact that the missile travels faster then a massdriver round and the reserve ammo is much bigger. Bright is the opposite of dark! Who would have thought of that?!
DUST Fiend 16861	Posted - 2015.05.07 00:52:00 - [69] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: Tank hunting was my favorite part of being a pilot before the Missile RoF nerf and Swarm buffs. If you can give me back the ability to save my team mates from tanks, I may just have to respec again. Also, while you're at it, could the problem of the side guns only hitting the Drop ship while aimed forward be addressed? That geometry issue makes it very hard to focus fire on a single target. You can still tank hunt , I do it and is one of the reasons that I use ADS's , I don't have to worry about some random just jumping into my vehicle shooting all the ammo out of my turrets ( because we don't have a kick feature ) and just jumping out at the first sign of trouble ... I kill HAV's easily because I know how to hover and I do it right out of their LOS because I know how vehicle mechanics work from my numerous respec's ... I tried everything so I won't get mad when I die from some supposed fluke $h!t and so I know how things actually work , shame that others don't do the same instead of buying 4 and 5 BPO's but that's another story , ADS's are fine .. even v.s. swarms because with an AB you can out run them but it seems that no one tries so you get a ton of complaints . It was easy mode the way that it was before so all of you asking to be reverted , shows how your lacking in your flight skills because you can surely make due with the way things are right now if you know what your doing . Step up your flight game people . Actually it sounds more like you're going against not so dedicated tankers. Try taking out a hardened rep maddy, or a bricked Gunny with even a single AV player in it. Posts like this reek of hyperbole and without any evidence to back it up lead more experienced pilots to feel you're either A.) lying or B.) fighting MLT / STD tanks. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy popping tanks as much as the next guy, but the only tanks I typically pop are very poorly piloted ones. A well piloted tank with an AV driver or gunner is the literal hard counter to any and all dropships, forcing them to hug the sky or the outskirts of the battle. I am possibly the worst tanker in DUST and while I've easily lost 50 million in tanks by now, not a SINGLE one has been from an ADS. Perhaps it's because of how well I understand flying but it is SO easy to disrupt their LOS and force them to spin back around as you nos beneath them, move back, then forward and to the side. Just that simple motion will cause the pilot to have to readjust so much that by the time he has damage applying to you again, you're at full, and all the AV on your team knows he's there. "When in doubt, dropship out" If you see me, bring AV to collect ISK DUST STUFF
Juno Tristan Obscure Reference 596	Posted - 2015.05.07 02:31:00 - [70] - Quote So Judge was right? ADS Ramming Revenge! Plasma Cannon Rampage

Mobius Wyvern Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 6302	Posted - 2015.05.07 02:59:00 - [71] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: Tank hunting was my favorite part of being a pilot before the Missile RoF nerf and Swarm buffs. If you can give me back the ability to save my team mates from tanks, I may just have to respec again. Also, while you're at it, could the problem of the side guns only hitting the Drop ship while aimed forward be addressed? That geometry issue makes it very hard to focus fire on a single target. You can still tank hunt , I do it and is one of the reasons that I use ADS's , I don't have to worry about some random just jumping into my vehicle shooting all the ammo out of my turrets ( because we don't have a kick feature ) and just jumping out at the first sign of trouble ... I kill HAV's easily because I know how to hover and I do it right out of their LOS because I know how vehicle mechanics work from my numerous respec's ... I tried everything so I won't get mad when I die from some supposed fluke $h!t and so I know how things actually work , shame that others don't do the same instead of buying 4 and 5 BPO's but that's another story , ADS's are fine .. even v.s. swarms because with an AB you can out run them but it seems that no one tries so you get a ton of complaints . It was easy mode the way that it was before so all of you asking to be reverted , shows how your lacking in your flight skills because you can surely make due with the way things are right now if you know what your doing . Step up your flight game people . I am not in ANY way suggesting we go back to the days of risk-free infantry farming. I was using an example to illustrate my preference to attack other vehicles rather than just farm infantry. The RoF nerf didn't even solve the problem of farming infantry, because the damage done by each missile is still sufficient to slap down any suit without enough HP stacked on. I would much prefer for the AI missiles Rattati has mentioned to have slower flight speeds, less damage, and higher RoF. That way the guy on the ground has a bit better chance of surviving long enough to get to cover, or doing enough damage to get the ADS to back off. The issue with hunting tanks right now isn't the tank itself, but the widespread abundance of AV due to people being sick and tired of the current Passive Armor Repair meta, since massive dps is the only way to kill an HAV right now. A single Assault Dropship doesn't put out enough dps to take out a GV.0 Madrugar that, when fit with a Complex Plate and Complex Repairers, can achieve 4150 hp and almost 400 hp/s without even using a Hardener. While you're attempting to make enough damage stick to actually kill the vehicle, his teamates are going to come running to try and get Swarm locks on your Dropship, and you're eventually driven off. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
WeapondigitX V7 The Exemplars 379	Posted - 2015.05.07 03:42:00 - [72] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I'll wait another 17 months for ADV / PRO LAVs and DSs before I pass judgement, but it takes a kind of "perfect storm" of events to happen in your favor if you plan to slay infantry in any noticeable amount. Otherwise your best bet is providing support fire on vehicles and never getting close to the ground. Let's do something for them instead, since we now have shown that HAVs can be strong (maybe too strong), we can figure them out. Honestly I feel that AV is going to need a buff, I just don't see how anyone can suggest reasonable buffs / changes without these hulls in the game. It would be really awesome if the Amarr / Minmatar placeholders could go in at the same time so we have every vehicle, in game, to test. I know that's asking too much but it's the bottom line if we are EVER going to come to some kind of stability between AV and Vehicles. I think AV is close to being in a good spot, though without some way to slow down tanks, convoys will always be an issue. Depending on the strength of proto ADSs, there may need to be a slight damage buff across the board for AV, but it's difficult to say. A slight buff to maximum elevation of HAVs top small turret could help curb ADS dominance of non redline rail tanks. Right now it's starting to feel like vehicles are their own best counter and I personally like it that way. A single well fit AV should rarely be an immediate threat to a well fit vehicle, but if the vehicle lingers, or if support comes along, then the tables should flip. If you don't feel this to be true, then ISK cost needs to be looked at. We can't have it both ways. Either ISK is a factor, or it isn't. Either you shell out the big money to gain a noticeable impact on the fight, or you pay the same as everyone else for expendable throw away toys. That's your call, but without having all the vehicles in game we're just going to keep circling the drain on this subject like we have been for the past 3 years now. Increasing throw distance of all AV grenades and increasing the speed of grenade throwing animations, and creating a breach swarm launcher that takes 3 seconds to lock on, fires 1 shot with 12 missiles, then spends roughly 3 seconds reloading. That would help AV players.
DUST Fiend 16870	Posted - 2015.05.07 03:45:00 - [73] - Quote WeapondigitX V7 wrote: Increasing throw distance of all AV grenades and increasing the speed of grenade throwing animations, and creating a breach swarm launcher that takes 3 seconds to lock on, fires 1 shot with 12 missiles, then spends roughly 3 seconds reloading. That would help AV players. The thing though is that AV doesn't need a whole ton of help, just a few nudges in the right direction. I'm all for upping throw distance on AV nades, maybe even a tiny buff to how quickly they're thrown, but the swarm launcher seems pointless and likely OP as all hell. Someone in another thread had an idea for an AV Mass Driver that shot weaker AV grenades. Something like that, I could get behind. So long as the homing wasn't too aggressive, at least "When in doubt, dropship out" If you see me, bring AV to collect ISK DUST STUFF
Mobius Wyvern Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 6302	Posted - 2015.05.07 03:47:00 - [74] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: WeapondigitX V7 wrote: Increasing throw distance of all AV grenades and increasing the speed of grenade throwing animations, and creating a breach swarm launcher that takes 3 seconds to lock on, fires 1 shot with 12 missiles, then spends roughly 3 seconds reloading. That would help AV players. The thing though is that AV doesn't need a whole ton of help, just a few nudges in the right direction. I'm all for upping throw distance on AV nades, maybe even a tiny buff to how quickly they're thrown, but the swarm launcher seems pointless and likely OP as all hell. Someone in another thread had an idea for an AV Mass Driver that shot weaker AV grenades. Something like that, I could get behind. So long as the homing wasn't too aggressive, at least How are you not in a Corporation at all? That keeps bugging me. I'm not sure that's supposed to be possible. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
xTheSiLLyRaBBiTx Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 526	Posted - 2015.05.07 03:48:00 - [75] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I'll wait another 17 months for ADV / PRO LAVs and DSs before I pass judgement, but it takes a kind of "perfect storm" of events to happen in your favor if you plan to slay infantry in any noticeable amount. Otherwise your best bet is providing support fire on vehicles and never getting close to the ground. Let's do something for them instead, since we now have shown that HAVs can be strong (maybe too strong), we can figure them out. Are we talking tiers for the ADS? Could be nice :) *\|LOGi GOD\|* Director of Fatal Absolution
DUST Fiend 16870	Posted - 2015.05.07 03:48:00 - [76] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: WeapondigitX V7 wrote: Increasing throw distance of all AV grenades and increasing the speed of grenade throwing animations, and creating a breach swarm launcher that takes 3 seconds to lock on, fires 1 shot with 12 missiles, then spends roughly 3 seconds reloading. That would help AV players. The thing though is that AV doesn't need a whole ton of help, just a few nudges in the right direction. I'm all for upping throw distance on AV nades, maybe even a tiny buff to how quickly they're thrown, but the swarm launcher seems pointless and likely OP as all hell. Someone in another thread had an idea for an AV Mass Driver that shot weaker AV grenades. Something like that, I could get behind. So long as the homing wasn't too aggressive, at least How are you not in a Corporation at all? That keeps bugging me. I'm not sure that's supposed to be possible. I'm a solo player who corp hops and never goes into corp chat. It's easier not paying taxes and not disappointing people lol "When in doubt, dropship out" If you see me, bring AV to collect ISK DUST STUFF
Mobius Wyvern Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 6302	Posted - 2015.05.07 03:50:00 - [77] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: WeapondigitX V7 wrote: Increasing throw distance of all AV grenades and increasing the speed of grenade throwing animations, and creating a breach swarm launcher that takes 3 seconds to lock on, fires 1 shot with 12 missiles, then spends roughly 3 seconds reloading. That would help AV players. The thing though is that AV doesn't need a whole ton of help, just a few nudges in the right direction. I'm all for upping throw distance on AV nades, maybe even a tiny buff to how quickly they're thrown, but the swarm launcher seems pointless and likely OP as all hell. Someone in another thread had an idea for an AV Mass Driver that shot weaker AV grenades. Something like that, I could get behind. So long as the homing wasn't too aggressive, at least How are you not in a Corporation at all? That keeps bugging me. I'm not sure that's supposed to be possible. I'm a solo player who corp hops and never goes into corp chat. It's easier not paying taxes and not disappointing people lol No, but leaving a player Corp automatically puts you into an NPC Corp. How did you manage to leave the NPC Corp too? Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 18833	Posted - 2015.05.07 03:50:00 - [78] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: WeapondigitX V7 wrote: Increasing throw distance of all AV grenades and increasing the speed of grenade throwing animations, and creating a breach swarm launcher that takes 3 seconds to lock on, fires 1 shot with 12 missiles, then spends roughly 3 seconds reloading. That would help AV players. The thing though is that AV doesn't need a whole ton of help, just a few nudges in the right direction. I'm all for upping throw distance on AV nades, maybe even a tiny buff to how quickly they're thrown, but the swarm launcher seems pointless and likely OP as all hell. Someone in another thread had an idea for an AV Mass Driver that shot weaker AV grenades. Something like that, I could get behind. So long as the homing wasn't too aggressive, at least How are you not in a Corporation at all? That keeps bugging me. I'm not sure that's supposed to be possible. He is. It's just hidden on the forums. Was in Molon Labe up until 16 days ago. Now is in Sinq Laison Gendarmes. Unless you mean Player Corporaiton in which case..... yeah kind of iffy. "MIN MAXING! MIN MAXING! I'M BETTER AT IT THAN YOU!" - Mobius Wyvern
WeapondigitX V7 The Exemplars 379	Posted - 2015.05.07 03:50:00 - [79] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: WeapondigitX V7 wrote: Increasing throw distance of all AV grenades and increasing the speed of grenade throwing animations, and creating a breach swarm launcher that takes 3 seconds to lock on, fires 1 shot with 12 missiles, then spends roughly 3 seconds reloading. That would help AV players. The thing though is that AV doesn't need a whole ton of help, just a few nudges in the right direction. I'm all for upping throw distance on AV nades, maybe even a tiny buff to how quickly they're thrown, but the swarm launcher seems pointless and likely OP as all hell. Someone in another thread had an idea for an AV Mass Driver that shot weaker AV grenades. Something like that, I could get behind. So long as the homing wasn't too aggressive, at least The high lockon time for the suggested breach swarm launcher was high to make it be used mostly for surprise attacks and little else. You could even reduce its lock on range to 75 meters and increase reload time to 5 seconds if need be. It would be a good thing to use for ambushing tanks, with no active hardeners, in combination to packed AV grenades.
DUST Fiend 16871	Posted - 2015.05.07 03:54:00 - [80] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: WeapondigitX V7 wrote: Increasing throw distance of all AV grenades and increasing the speed of grenade throwing animations, and creating a breach swarm launcher that takes 3 seconds to lock on, fires 1 shot with 12 missiles, then spends roughly 3 seconds reloading. That would help AV players. The thing though is that AV doesn't need a whole ton of help, just a few nudges in the right direction. I'm all for upping throw distance on AV nades, maybe even a tiny buff to how quickly they're thrown, but the swarm launcher seems pointless and likely OP as all hell. Someone in another thread had an idea for an AV Mass Driver that shot weaker AV grenades. Something like that, I could get behind. So long as the homing wasn't too aggressive, at least How are you not in a Corporation at all? That keeps bugging me. I'm not sure that's supposed to be possible. He is. It's just hidden on the forums. Was in Molon Labe up until 16 days ago. Now is in Sinq Laison Gendarmes. Unless you mean Player Corporaiton in which case..... yeah kind of iffy. I don't even know how to pronounce that corp lmfao. VIVA LA SINQ LAISON GENDARMES!!!! "When in doubt, dropship out" If you see me, bring AV to collect ISK DUST STUFF

STYLIE77 KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 674	Posted - 2015.05.07 04:42:00 - [81] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: STYLIE77 wrote: Crazy ranting If you cant be reasonable and exchange information like a rational human being without shouting, screaming or ranting, you do not need to be part of the narrative. If you're just here to shout, harass and make baseless accusations I will consider your opinion about as much as I consider the opinion of other unreasonable people like speaker4thedead, which is not at all. I could care less what you think of me or my opinion. You are simply trying to dismiss my point of view by claiming that I am harassing others. Might as well call me a racist and bigot as well, that works well on college campuses and in the work place. LOL I DON'T AGREE WITH YOU!!! And I will express that view every time I see calls for vehicle buffs. Let's make Dust 514 unplayable unless you are in a Tank so that 6 out of 32 players can go 20-0 every game. http://caughtyouflinching.ytmnd.com/
hails8n DEATH BY DESTRUCTION 133	Posted - 2015.05.07 05:17:00 - [82] - Quote STYLIE77 wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: STYLIE77 wrote: Crazy ranting If you cant be reasonable and exchange information like a rational human being without shouting, screaming or ranting, you do not need to be part of the narrative. If you're just here to shout, harass and make baseless accusations I will consider your opinion about as much as I consider the opinion of other unreasonable people like speaker4thedead, which is not at all. I could care less what you think of me or my opinion. You are simply trying to dismiss my point of view by claiming that I am harassing others. Might as well call me a racist and bigot as well, that works well on college campuses and in the work place. LOL I DON'T AGREE WITH YOU!!! And I will express that view every time I see calls for vehicle buffs. Let's make Dust 514 unplayable unless you are in a Tank so that 6 out of 32 players can go 20-0 every game. This is an Ads thread, and Ads are underpowered right now and Rattatis acknowled that, so looks like well be getting some much needed buffs. I suggest you skill into some av and get creative. Petition to ban the trainyard map.
STYLIE77 KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 674	Posted - 2015.05.07 09:49:00 - [83] - Quote hails8n wrote: STYLIE77 wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: STYLIE77 wrote: Crazy ranting If you cant be reasonable and exchange information like a rational human being without shouting, screaming or ranting, you do not need to be part of the narrative. If you're just here to shout, harass and make baseless accusations I will consider your opinion about as much as I consider the opinion of other unreasonable people like speaker4thedead, which is not at all. I could care less what you think of me or my opinion. You are simply trying to dismiss my point of view by claiming that I am harassing others. Might as well call me a racist and bigot as well, that works well on college campuses and in the work place. LOL I DON'T AGREE WITH YOU!!! And I will express that view every time I see calls for vehicle buffs. Let's make Dust 514 unplayable unless you are in a Tank so that 6 out of 32 players can go 20-0 every game. This is an Ads thread, and Ads are underpowered right now and Rattatis acknowled that, so looks like well be getting some much needed buffs. I suggest you skill into some av and get creative. LOL at underpowered drop ships... http://caughtyouflinching.ytmnd.com/
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8433	Posted - 2015.05.07 10:18:00 - [84] - Quote Underpowered, no. Bluntly ADS are insanely hard to kill with any weapons requiring aim. And they farm the crap out of infantry. But when the game is wiki swarms or go home it's weird. Dropship/av relationships are weird. There's actually a reason why I say that buffs to regular AV(swarms not included, they're good, possibly too good) Should not include alpha increase for the most part. Pythons need the shield fitting nerfs reverted. There's never enough sh**posting going on, so let's add a few more teaspoons of the guy posting after me to the recipie!
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 2975	Posted - 2015.05.07 12:19:00 - [85] - Quote STYLIE77 wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: STYLIE77 wrote: Crazy ranting If you cant be reasonable and exchange information like a rational human being without shouting, screaming or ranting, you do not need to be part of the narrative. If you're just here to shout, harass and make baseless accusations I will consider your opinion about as much as I consider the opinion of other unreasonable people like speaker4thedead, which is not at all. "YOU CANT STOP ME FROM BEING A BIASED IDIOT" You're right, I can't. But I have no reason to listen to you either, nor does anyone else. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1996	Posted - 2015.05.07 13:41:00 - [86] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I actually think we just need to tailor the swarms a bit (lock on and missile travel distance), buff the DS and ADS until they are fairly equal. I hope the small blaster may become a viable choice. LAVs are getting a fitting buff and an extra slot. I'd say: forget the small blaster as a dropship weapon because that platform is inherently unsuitable for blasters damage projection. unless you are going to something radical like giving dropships role bonus of +1000% range for small blasters or the like (hint hint) Looking at both sides of the coin. Even Aurum one.
BAMM HAVOC Carbon 7 864	Posted - 2015.05.08 13:34:00 - [87] - Quote G Clone wrote: [quote=CCP Rattati][quote=DUST Fiend] driving in to take on HAVs 1-on-1, using speed, agility etc to stay "safe", with someone on comms screaming like a girl (BAMM, Jason etc) as we charge a HAV is so much more engaging December 10th, 2013, the release-date of Uprising 1.7, was the day that DUST514 died... Can you blame me!? You barrel along the deck at a serious rate of knots with a crazed look in your eye, yelling and I quote "come get some". I have to hang on for dear life just to get to the HAV and once we are there I somehow have to jumble to triggers and controls to just point the damned thing in the right direction. It is funny when the HAV drivers think they have gotten away from our mad attacks. You drive up to them and I jump off the back kitted out with and assault forge gun, they focus on the LAV and not me . The sheer look of bewilderment from the HAV pilot as a forge round flies up his arse is hilarious. And the tears, sooooo many tears... the instant hate mail is brilliant. I have a good time playing dust, but it has defiantly become a case of how I play with rather than the game keeping me coming back. *YOU TUBEZ* *BLOGZ*
SeargentSAVAGE PIanet Express Smart Deploy 29	Posted - 2015.05.08 13:53:00 - [88] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I actually think we just need to tailor the swarms a bit (lock on and missile travel distance), buff the DS and ADS until they are fairly equal. I hope the small blaster may become a viable choice. LAVs are getting a fitting buff and an extra slot. I'm still a fan of faster swarms with less of a curve (chance to overshoot), shorter flight time and higher damage, but I imagine an effort like that would take way too much. Having an indicator that swarms are following you would be nice at least. As for small blasters, I've said this since the day ADS was introduced, and I will keep on saying it. Unless a proper first person camera is implemented, one that follows the exact same swivel that the turret currently follows, blasters will never be a reliable front gun an ADS. Without being able to actually see what you're shooting at, you're just playing the guessing game. And let's face it, most pilots would very likely crash or become target fixated and get killed as they zone out trying to hunt down that one player. Lacking that level of control has always been a huge pain with flying ADS. At the very least though they may make ok side guns, but unless there's a serious buff to survivability with PRO ships, I think it will remain a novelty. No pilot wants to just hover around waiting to be blasted by all manner of AV while their gunner tries to get some kills, so it'll probably end up as another redline enforcer as far as dropships are concerned. Since the dropship lacks the padding to take a few hits, and the blaster lacks the punch vs vehicles, it leaves blaster dropships in a weird place no matter what kind of buffs you give the blaster. Now, if we could get logi ships back.... Well, I do want ADSs to be tankhunters with gunners, and DS's to be more durable (maybe even slower), able to react to infantry on the ground if equipped and with gunners. They should be one counter to invincigars Me and PE actually discussed this why not have the standard variant only lock on to ground vehicles so you can nerf/buff as needed and the Assault Swarm Launcher is used to take out aerial vehicles. The Assault Swarms could get and extra shot or two with lower damage. Its the only way I see to really balance the av in my opinion. Just a suggestion could use a different approach but you get the basic idea of it.
STYLIE77 KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 675	Posted - 2015.05.08 21:20:00 - [89] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: STYLIE77 wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: STYLIE77 wrote: Crazy ranting If you cant be reasonable and exchange information like a rational human being without shouting, screaming or ranting, you do not need to be part of the narrative. If you're just here to shout, harass and make baseless accusations I will consider your opinion about as much as I consider the opinion of other unreasonable people like speaker4thedead, which is not at all. "YOU CANT STOP ME FROM BEING A BIASED IDIOT" You're right, I can't. But I have no reason to listen to you either, nor does anyone else. Absolutely biased against KDR farming machines, just like I am biased against any OP weapon or mechanic. When 1 guy requires multiple people to kill them it is OP. I can take a militia assault rifle and kill a prof 5 AK.O with a scrambler. I cannot kill a drop ship with a militia forge or militia swarms. Not unless it is hovering or parked on top of a structure. The drop ship should be a glass cannon at best and right now most of them can two shot 90% of the suits on the field. I remember watching two or three drop ships totally dominate matches due to hardeners and the ability to fly to the top deck when ever they were hit by multiple forge/swarm shots. Only to fly right back a minute later and continue to slay everyone. When vehicles become too strong the entire point of the game modes flip from Objective based to Vehicle based. Wherein the opposing team must now focus on taking out the vehicles in order to even progress, problem is that 1 minute later another vehicle is called in and you never progress. Multiply that with the matches starting off short handed and players quitting and not being replaced, which turns every OP vehicle into a force multiplier... so teams simply don't have the man power to fight so many vehicles that are so tough that the pilot has to make serious mistakes to be killed. These maps are huge, and if we were actually playing 32 vs 32 balancing vehicles would be easier, but not in the 16 vs 16 and especially not in the 8 vs 11 environment we currently find ourselves in. I am arguing for both teams to have a fun game, you are arguing for your own personal stats and experience... Giving the minority of the team the ability to slay with out risk is not a good design decision. http://caughtyouflinching.ytmnd.com/
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 1521	Posted - 2015.05.08 21:31:00 - [90] - Quote Stylie, you are living in the past. Single Swarmers render DSs essentially obsolete, let alone how many AVers actually pop up when a vehicle appears. Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.

hails8n DEATH BY DESTRUCTION 140	Posted - 2015.05.08 23:10:00 - [91] - Quote STYLIE77 wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: STYLIE77 wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: STYLIE77 wrote: Crazy ranting If you cant be reasonable and exchange information like a rational human being without shouting, screaming or ranting, you do not need to be part of the narrative. If you're just here to shout, harass and make baseless accusations I will consider your opinion about as much as I consider the opinion of other unreasonable people like speaker4thedead, which is not at all. "YOU CANT STOP ME FROM BEING A BIASED IDIOT" You're right, I can't. But I have no reason to listen to you either, nor does anyone else. Absolutely biased against KDR farming machines, just like I am biased against any OP weapon or mechanic. When 1 guy requires multiple people to kill them it is OP. I can take a militia assault rifle and kill a prof 5 AK.O with a scrambler. I cannot kill a drop ship with a militia forge or militia swarms. Not unless it is hovering or parked on top of a structure. The drop ship should be a glass cannon at best and right now most of them can two shot 90% of the suits on the field. I remember watching two or three drop ships totally dominate matches due to hardeners and the ability to fly to the top deck when ever they were hit by multiple forge/swarm shots. Only to fly right back a minute later and continue to slay everyone. When vehicles become too strong the entire point of the game modes flip from Objective based to Vehicle based. Wherein the opposing team must now focus on taking out the vehicles in order to even progress, problem is that 1 minute later another vehicle is called in and you never progress. Multiply that with the matches starting off short handed and players quitting and not being replaced, which turns every OP vehicle into a force multiplier... so teams simply don't have the man power to fight so many vehicles that are so tough that the pilot has to make serious mistakes to be killed. These maps are huge, and if we were actually playing 32 vs 32 balancing vehicles would be easier, but not in the 16 vs 16 and especially not in the 8 vs 11 environment we currently find ourselves in. I am arguing for both teams to have a fun game, you are arguing for your own personal stats and experience... Giving the minority of the team the ability to slay with out risk is not a good design decision. Mad because bad. Petition to ban the trainyard map.


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