I actually think we just need to tailor the swarms a bit (lock on and missile travel distance), buff the DS and ADS until they are fairly equal. I hope the small blaster may become a viable choice. LAVs are getting a fitting buff and an extra slot.

Sorry to break up the love party, but since its been nearly 10 months since the last tweak to dropships (that being the heat buildup on the incubus) and every single dropship suggestion / pilot feedback without fail has either been ignored, mocked as "you pilots are just whining.' I wouldn't hold my breath. 10 months of that kind of response from the devs swapite the shape dropships are in has really seen pilot numbers dwindle to near zero. Either they stopped flying or like the majority, stop playing dust altogether.

Provided the dev team made dropships thier priority tomorrow (which they aren't, PC is priority now) its would still be at least 2 months for any sort of change come through. It took nearly six for the tanks and that was with the devs trying out tanking.

My advice OP, dont get attacthed to either ship or the isk you will lose to fly it. As soon as you lose your sense of losing 30000 iisk a pop, give it a break for a few matchs, snipe a bit, and pick it up when the map suits you, or when a squad of prostompers are on your side, clearing out ground AV. Rooftop AV, well...hope you have a viper and a heavy suit.

But hey, You'll save more controllers that way.

Rattati, just go ahead and play with the numbers. Hotfix it daily till it seems okay if you have too. There's not enough pilots left to give you the statistcal data you need, so don't bother. As you have said your self, there are no pilots amongst the devs, and none amongst the CPM, and offering flights has been taken as an insult, so you can't test out before deployment even if you wanted too.

If you need opinions, well you have 10 months of it in the feedback section. Nothing more to add to what hasnt been said before. There's not much more to do to make things worse, well except nerfing speed even more. That would make STD dropships even more of a nightmare.

ADS = huge SP sink for small results. I've been running ADS for a long time now and yes it is very frustrating to handle this. We cannot really decide on a balance factor. AV owns ADS/DS. We figured this as soon as the patch came out that significantly buffed AV.

ADS is pretty much just a small support role. The reason I said small was because skilling into AV is nothing compared to ADS. Almost everyone has at least ADV AV. You honestly cannot outrun swarms, even with a AB. Forges take you out in a few hits, while ADS spends the whole match TRYING to look for the AV swarms. And rail tanks can still snipe you with a huge advantage.

Another issue is last gen, rendering and invisible swarms and forges. You just take the damage, just take it without knowing a general area where the AV player is.

And not to mention the AV knockback it has on ADS/DS.

Advice: try to hit and gtfo

OMG did you break your oath ? You finally commented on an ADS post


Let's do something for them instead, since we now have shown that HAVs can be strong (maybe too strong), we can figure them out.

Honestly I feel that AV is going to need a buff, I just don't see how anyone can suggest reasonable buffs / changes without these hulls in the game. It would be really awesome if the Amarr / Minmatar placeholders could go in at the same time so we have every vehicle, in game, to test. I know that's asking too much but it's the bottom line if we are EVER going to come to some kind of stability between AV and Vehicles.

I think AV is close to being in a good spot, though without some way to slow down tanks, convoys will always be an issue. Depending on the strength of proto ADSs, there may need to be a slight damage buff across the board for AV, but it's difficult to say. A slight buff to maximum elevation of HAVs top small turret could help curb ADS dominance of non redline rail tanks. Right now it's starting to feel like vehicles are their own best counter and I personally like it that way. A single well fit AV should rarely be an immediate threat to a well fit vehicle, but if the vehicle lingers, or if support comes along, then the tables should flip.

If you don't feel this to be true, then ISK cost needs to be looked at. We can't have it both ways. Either ISK is a factor, or it isn't. Either you shell out the big money to gain a noticeable impact on the fight, or you pay the same as everyone else for expendable throw away toys. That's your call, but without having all the vehicles in game we're just going to keep circling the drain on this subject like we have been for the past 3 years now.

AV should not be based on a single person being able to solo a tank. Please move on already.

Let's do something for them instead, since we now have shown that HAVs can be strong (maybe too strong), we can figure them out.

Respec thread number #1087.




AND a sharp poke to those people who claimed that these respec threads will end once we get respecs at will / unlimited respecs.

^^ Still got it going on ^^

Regarding ADS.. I think 'Talos' makes the best comments.. it is situational.
In PC ADS still turns the tide of battle and is a force to be reckoned with while attacking/defending objectives
But there are times where an AV nest is covering that objective and your ADS becomes a WP farm for AV..
So it's a matter of knowing when to, and when not to use an ADS.. mercs just can't accept that

I am an average pilot (that's being being nice about it) 80% of my deaths in ADS are caused by me
But I can still clear area's and keep my ship alive when the situation is clear of AV spam..

For those QQing the SP investment.. that's all optional, just like infantry's reload/ammo/sharpshooter/profiency/fitting op
You can fit a viable ADS for about 3mil SP, sure you are lacking some bonuses, but to say it does not work is BS
Public matches are no place for an ADS anymore, way too many blueberries dedicate to WP farming off AV
And there is a high chance of cowardly tankers sniping, or a maxed railbus making a quick end to you..

I spent a lot of time watching the patterns of good pilots manboar/axlkazik/denchlad/parth0k/derrith/jamaican/derpty/diego
And you can learn a lot just by seeing how they react to certain situations in battle...
Thats only half of it though, seeing what you need to do only gets you so far.. knowledge is power

And for that I thank 'Derrith Erador' for taking the time to squad with a blueberry pilot and offer great input
- such as your situational awareness, knowing where the AV is before they hit you
- when outnumberd by AV trying to be a hero will cost you an ADS
- timing your attacks based on how how many rounds the AV is firing at you
(I don't do him justice so I'll stfu, but he used small words and crayons and highlighted a lot of good info)
Since then I actually hold some chance when in flight and engaging AV...

TL;DR = Pay some attention, don't expect game mechanics to win battles for you

^ seems ironic when the rapid reload swarmando's have it handed to them

No. It was ridiculous how easy it was for an ADS to sit above a tank and wipe them out in less than three seconds with the old RoF (plus the bonus RoF glitch for gunners.)

Also to add, you have to know when to recall your ADS. If AV is dominating the map, just put it away. Your biggest tactical asset is the ability to select which areas to target and (provided you escape) which ones to avoid.

And thanks for pointing out PC and Pubs require very different flying styles. What works in PC (sacrifice numerous dropshis if need be, reliable teamates and a limited number of albeit powerful AV ) wont work as well in a pub (carefully selecting targets, dropship survivability takes priority over points haul, multiple low to high level AV, little team support), and what works in a pub is nowhere near effective enough for PC flying.

Also to add, you have to know when to recall your ADS. If AV is dominating the map, just put it away. Your biggest tactical asset is the ability to select which areas to target and (provided you escape) which ones to avoid.

And thanks for pointing out PC and Pubs require very different flying styles. What works in PC (sacrifice numerous dropshis if need be, reliable teamates and a limited number of albeit powerful AV ) wont work as well in a pub (carefully selecting targets, dropship survivability takes priority over points haul, multiple low to high level AV, little team support), and what works in a pub is nowhere near effective enough for PC flying.

for me one of the biggest problems with ADS is that swarm launchers do not miss. The level of player skill required for them is trivial.

If swarms were dumb fire like plasma cannons, but had a seek range on the projectile (like AV grenades, where if the missile got close enough to a vehicle it homed in) it would still be the 'easy' anti-vehicle weapon, but significantly more player skill would be required than 'herp derp switch to minmando and look at something for 10 seconds before it's dead'.

Please rattati, look at the numbers for how often swarms kill vehicles - particularly dropships compared to other av weapons.

for me one of the biggest problems with ADS is that swarm launchers do not miss. The level of player skill required for them is trivial.

If swarms were dumb fire like plasma cannons, but had a seek range on the projectile (like AV grenades, where if the missile got close enough to a vehicle it homed in) it would still be the 'easy' anti-vehicle weapon, but significantly more player skill would be required than 'herp derp switch to minmando and look at something for 10 seconds before it's dead'.

Please rattati, look at the numbers for how often swarms kill vehicles - particularly dropships compared to other av weapons.

Crazy ranting

I love how people always cry for a respec rather than crying for a buff.
That is the sound of a FoTM chaser, not a dedicated ADS pilot.

And don't give me any stupid "git gud" reply.

No. I'd probably use superior spelling and sentence structure, and ask you to train more to get better. And I'm not referring to more skill books, but actual, hands on flying.
Flying in Dust is not easy, in fact it's extremely hard and frustrating. Yet some people seem to excel at it.

Really. Considering how much havoc ADSes cause on most batlefields, training really does help. I can fly them, and I lose them just as often. It's fun while it last, but the ADS isn't impervious to team play.
1 guy with a swarm or a Forge Gun vs. a bad pilot = a dead ADS.
As it should be.

3-4 guys coordinating an attack with AV gear vs an ADS, should be able to kill it, easily.

Let's do something for them instead, since we now have shown that HAVs can be strong (maybe too strong), we can figure them out.

Well, I do want ADSs to be tankhunters with gunners, and DS's to be more durable (maybe even slower), able to react to infantry on the ground if equipped and with gunners. They should be one counter to invincigars

for me one of the biggest problems with ADS is that swarm launchers do not miss. The level of player skill required for them is trivial.

If swarms were dumb fire like plasma cannons, but had a seek range on the projectile (like AV grenades, where if the missile got close enough to a vehicle it homed in) it would still be the 'easy' anti-vehicle weapon, but significantly more player skill would be required than 'herp derp switch to minmando and look at something for 10 seconds before it's dead'.

Please rattati, look at the numbers for how often swarms kill vehicles - particularly dropships compared to other av weapons.

This whole thread is full of players wanting to have invincible vehicles with no counters.

You guys have asked for buffs to every thing on the ADS.

I don't miss the days of ADS pilots going 40-0 all night.

I don't miss the days of blaster tanks going 40-0 all night.

"Don't take skill"

GO play world of tanks.

To hell with being a duck in your shooting gallery.

Pilots want to be able to solo a 16 man team and want it to require up to 3 people to shoot them down because of "price" or "skill".

What you guys really want is the ability to have invincible KDR Boosting machines, where the fight is all about who gets their tanks on the field first or who has the most ADS in the air.

I played that version of Dust 514 in the past, all infantry suffered... despite actually spawning in on their FIRST SPAWN with AV as a team.

It didn't matter how many tanks or ships were shot down, more were spammed.

Dust devolved into a game of hide and seek from the OP vehicles while an occasional objective hack happened.

It was Tanks 514 and Dropship 514.

Vehicles become too strong then the game isn't about the objectives, it is about taking out OP vehicles while their team mates help kill you.

You turn into a duck in a shooting gallery...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=no0JmLFGzdQ