Seriously though....I spent a lot of SP just to find out that there's literally no way to make an ADS viable on the battlefield unless your tactic is "make everybody switch to swarms so your team can kill them while you lose isk" and I know I'm not the only person kind of butthurt about it. I spent 15 mil learning to fly DS above par. I then spent 15 mil learning that flying an ADS is absolutely ********. And don't give me any stupid "git gud" reply. If you come here claiming you can survive the swarms, forges, and redline rails in an ADS then you'd better have a video with a timestamp. I've tried everything. Nothing works. And it's not like I can fit anything on it in the first place....So...can I get a refund? I'm not gonna suggest you guys try to balance them, there is no balancing something that's this god awful that has such a high learning curve that gets 3 shotted by a swarm launcher I can teach my grandma to use flawlessly in 5 minutes. I just want my sp back. As I'm sure many others do too.

I'll wait another 17 months for ADV / PRO LAVs and DSs before I pass judgement, but it takes a kind of "perfect storm" of events to happen in your favor if you plan to slay infantry in any noticeable amount. Otherwise your best bet is providing support fire on vehicles and never getting close to the ground.

Let's do something for them instead, since we now have shown that HAVs can be strong (maybe too strong), we can figure them out.

Honestly I feel that AV is going to need a buff, I just don't see how anyone can suggest reasonable buffs / changes without these hulls in the game. It would be really awesome if the Amarr / Minmatar placeholders could go in at the same time so we have every vehicle, in game, to test. I know that's asking too much but it's the bottom line if we are EVER going to come to some kind of stability between AV and Vehicles.

I think AV is close to being in a good spot, though without some way to slow down tanks, convoys will always be an issue. Depending on the strength of proto ADSs, there may need to be a slight damage buff across the board for AV, but it's difficult to say. A slight buff to maximum elevation of HAVs top small turret could help curb ADS dominance of non redline rail tanks. Right now it's starting to feel like vehicles are their own best counter and I personally like it that way. A single well fit AV should rarely be an immediate threat to a well fit vehicle, but if the vehicle lingers, or if support comes along, then the tables should flip.

If you don't feel this to be true, then ISK cost needs to be looked at. We can't have it both ways. Either ISK is a factor, or it isn't. Either you shell out the big money to gain a noticeable impact on the fight, or you pay the same as everyone else for expendable throw away toys. That's your call, but without having all the vehicles in game we're just going to keep circling the drain on this subject like we have been for the past 3 years now.

I actually think we just need to tailor the swarms a bit (lock on and missile travel distance), buff the DS and ADS until they are fairly equal. I hope the small blaster may become a viable choice. LAVs are getting a fitting buff and an extra slot.

I'm still a fan of faster swarms with less of a curve (chance to overshoot), shorter flight time and higher damage, but I imagine an effort like that would take way too much. Having an indicator that swarms are following you would be nice at least.

As for small blasters, I've said this since the day ADS was introduced, and I will keep on saying it. Unless a proper first person camera is implemented, one that follows the exact same swivel that the turret currently follows, blasters will never be a reliable front gun an ADS. Without being able to actually see what you're shooting at, you're just playing the guessing game. And let's face it, most pilots would very likely crash or become target fixated and get killed as they zone out trying to hunt down that one player.

Lacking that level of control has always been a huge pain with flying ADS. At the very least though they may make ok side guns, but unless there's a serious buff to survivability with PRO ships, I think it will remain a novelty. No pilot wants to just hover around waiting to be blasted by all manner of AV while their gunner tries to get some kills, so it'll probably end up as another redline enforcer as far as dropships are concerned. Since the dropship lacks the padding to take a few hits, and the blaster lacks the punch vs vehicles, it leaves blaster dropships in a weird place no matter what kind of buffs you give the blaster.

Now, if we could get logi ships back....

I actually think we just need to tailor the swarms a bit (lock on and missile travel distance), buff the DS and ADS until they are fairly equal. I hope the small blaster may become a viable choice. LAVs are getting a fitting buff and an extra slot.

Well, I do want ADSs to be tankhunters with gunners, and DS's to be more durable (maybe even slower), able to react to infantry on the ground if equipped and with gunners. They should be one counter to invincigars

I currently love my blaster incubus as a support ship for squad mates. wreck infantry shields then loads of assists.(Great for that pesky vehicle kill assist mission) i hope that small blasters will become more viable in actually killing.

Just today i fought a single swarmer with one and simply couldnt kill him. i understand if i get gang raped by 3-4 avers i will instapop. but i feel like i should viably fight off 1 dude.

and DS's to be more durable (maybe even slower)

[Give the Ads their rate of fire back

Well, I do want ADSs to be tankhunters with gunners, and DS's to be more durable (maybe even slower), able to react to infantry on the ground if equipped and with gunners. They should be one counter to invincigars

I personally hate the idea of MLT vehicles, and standard dropships in general, but thats just me. Without the mobility, standard dropships are still far too flimsy to hold up to sustained fire. Perhaps PRO basic ships will help, but mobility is everything. Give them too much tank and they become invincible suicide machines against ADS, with no real role outside of kill platform. Buff their mobility and the ADS loses its edge because the front turret isnt worth as much as all that survivability.

Side guns on ADS seem more suited to dog fights because the cut to survivability and hike in cost and effort to be effecient dont lend well to being down near the ground, and thus the AV. Im just curious to see how it all pans out, but I can tell you that even slower dropships aren't going to make anyone but AV happy lol. The only reason good pilots can make flying work is because of the ability to interupt sustained DPS by relocating / dodging. Unless you literally make them as durable as HAVs I doubt youll ever see a slow tanked dropship that doesn't go down in flames before it can escape AV range

Small rails could probably use a 10% reduction in efficiency vs shields though, right now they absolutely wreck shields.

Let's do something for them instead, since we now have shown that HAVs can be strong (maybe too strong), we can figure them out.

Seriously though....I spent a lot of SP just to find out that there's literally no way to make an ADS viable on the battlefield unless your tactic is "make everybody switch to swarms so your team can kill them while you lose isk" and I know I'm not the only person kind of butthurt about it. I spent 15 mil learning to fly DS above par. I then spent 15 mil learning that flying an ADS is absolutely ********. And don't give me any stupid "git gud" reply. If you come here claiming you can survive the swarms, forges, and redline rails in an ADS then you'd better have a video with a timestamp. I've tried everything. Nothing works. And it's not like I can fit anything on it in the first place....So...can I get a refund? I'm not gonna suggest you guys try to balance them, there is no balancing something that's this god awful that has such a high learning curve that gets 3 shotted by a swarm launcher I can teach my grandma to use flawlessly in 5 minutes. I just want my sp back. As I'm sure many others do too.

Well, I do want ADSs to be tankhunters with gunners, and DS's to be more durable (maybe even slower), able to react to infantry on the ground if equipped and with gunners. They should be one counter to invincigars