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DUST Fiend Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 15615	Posted - 2015.01.23 15:11:00 - [1] - Quote When i fight a good forge gunner, its heart pounding. I see that glow on the ground and instantly take evasive action. I drop elevation, twist to the side, pop my AB and rotate up and sideways to roll over his first shot. It misses, i get two seconds to apply some damage, then i punch straight up while leaning forward. He connects and my ship lists to one side. Doin a full barrel roll with the impact, i quickly drop towards the ground, shaking his third shot as i haul ass away. Over 300 meters out, still flying eradically, he manages to hit me, and i silently compliment his tremendous aim and tenacity. Swarms? I punch my AB and run full speed away, STILL getting hit. Forge gunners, thank you for remaining and reminding us all what it means to be skilled at AV My YouTube (currently inactive) Homeless Dropship Enthusiast "See You Space Cowboy"
rithujith roshan Dark Taboo 60	Posted - 2015.01.23 15:16:00 - [2] - Quote there is nothing we can do to make swarms skilled. Dumb fire wont work cause people will use it as mass driver, also we will only be able to get one hit before the vehicle takes off. They banned me permanently (C-C-P Rithu)
REMNANCY 1 Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 72	Posted - 2015.01.23 15:21:00 - [3] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: When i fight a good forge gunner, its heart pounding. I see that glow on the ground and instantly take evasive action. I drop elevation, twist to the side, pop my AB and rotate up and sideways to roll over his first shot. It misses, i get two seconds to apply some damage, then i punch straight up while leaning forward. He connects and my ship lists to one side. Doin a full barrel roll with the impact, i quickly drop towards the ground, shaking his third shot as i haul ass away. Over 300 meters out, still flying eradically, he manages to hit me, and i silently compliment his tremendous aim and tenacity. Swarms? I punch my AB and run full speed away, STILL getting hit. Forge gunners, thank you for remaining and reminding us all what it means to be skilled at AV Why does every weapon need to have high skill requirements? After all user friendliness is it's own balancing and variety aspect.
DUST Fiend Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 15616	Posted - 2015.01.23 15:24:00 - [4] - Quote REMNANCY 1 wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: When i fight a good forge gunner, its heart pounding. I see that glow on the ground and instantly take evasive action. I drop elevation, twist to the side, pop my AB and rotate up and sideways to roll over his first shot. It misses, i get two seconds to apply some damage, then i punch straight up while leaning forward. He connects and my ship lists to one side. Doin a full barrel roll with the impact, i quickly drop towards the ground, shaking his third shot as i haul ass away. Over 300 meters out, still flying eradically, he manages to hit me, and i silently compliment his tremendous aim and tenacity. Swarms? I punch my AB and run full speed away, STILL getting hit. Forge gunners, thank you for remaining and reminding us all what it means to be skilled at AV Why does every weapon need to have high skill requirements? After all user friendliness is it's own balancing and variety aspect. True, but a weapon that requires a fraction of the skill and effort probably shouldnt be doing similar amounts of damage. Skill vs skill battles are fun and balanced. Taking guaranteed damage because someone looked up....less so. My YouTube (currently inactive) Homeless Dropship Enthusiast "See You Space Cowboy"
noob cavman And the ButtPirates 2011	Posted - 2015.01.23 15:27:00 - [5] - Quote Forge gun skill? Say hello to my plasma cannon I want to be a caveman! Ccp: LEGION Gö+GöüGö+ n+¦pâ+(`-ö´)n+ën+¦ Gö+GöüGö+ Full steam ahead into the enemies booty yarrr.
REMNANCY 1 Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 72	Posted - 2015.01.23 15:30:00 - [6] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: REMNANCY 1 wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: When i fight a good forge gunner, its heart pounding. I see that glow on the ground and instantly take evasive action. I drop elevation, twist to the side, pop my AB and rotate up and sideways to roll over his first shot. It misses, i get two seconds to apply some damage, then i punch straight up while leaning forward. He connects and my ship lists to one side. Doin a full barrel roll with the impact, i quickly drop towards the ground, shaking his third shot as i haul ass away. Over 300 meters out, still flying eradically, he manages to hit me, and i silently compliment his tremendous aim and tenacity. Swarms? I punch my AB and run full speed away, STILL getting hit. Forge gunners, thank you for remaining and reminding us all what it means to be skilled at AV Why does every weapon need to have high skill requirements? After all user friendliness is it's own balancing and variety aspect. True, but a weapon that requires a fraction of the skill and effort probably shouldnt be doing similar amounts of damage. Skill vs skill battles are fun and balanced. Taking guaranteed damage because someone looked up....less so. I will certainty grant that you that skill v skill battles are better but not everyone can be a dedicated and skilled with AV so the SL exists as an imperfect,effective and relatively easy way for non dedicated av players to fight what is basically a niche role among other reasons
Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 599	Posted - 2015.01.23 15:33:00 - [7] - Quote 1. Nice story OP last time i had a battle with a FG was months ago, all i see is SL users now with there never miss weapons
REMNANCY 1 Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 72	Posted - 2015.01.23 15:41:00 - [8] - Quote Lazer Fo Cused wrote: 1. Nice story OP last time i had a battle with a FG was months ago, all i see is SL users now with there never miss weapons Sir that is clear nonsense mock the SL as you will for whatever perceived reason you believe but sl's do fail and in many ways the forge is just as easy to use.
DUST Fiend Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 15619	Posted - 2015.01.23 15:46:00 - [9] - Quote Lazer Fo Cused wrote: 1. Nice story OP last time i had a battle with a FG was months ago, all i see is SL users now with there never miss weapons I fight forge gunners pretty often but theyre almost exclusively in top corps running IAFGs and let me tell you, those guys can aim,cuz i do NOT make it easy for them. I just wish it was fun fighting vs swarms, but right now they arent. Theres no opportunity for either player to utilize skill in the engagement. It literallh puts you on a death timer in most cases, which is why non AB fits suffer so badly because you cant fit enough tank to compensate for the extra volley or two youll inevitably eat (except dual hardener python) which would be forced to retreat at this point, but this is mostly an issue thanks to PLC and large blaster being the only anti shield AV in the game My YouTube (currently inactive) Homeless Dropship Enthusiast "See You Space Cowboy"
Aiwha Bait Demonic Cowboys 60	Posted - 2015.01.23 15:48:00 - [10] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: When i fight a good forge gunner, its heart pounding. I see that glow on the ground and instantly take evasive action. I drop elevation, twist to the side, pop my AB and rotate up and sideways to roll over his first shot. It misses, i get two seconds to apply some damage, then i punch straight up while leaning forward. He connects and my ship lists to one side. Doin a full barrel roll with the impact, i quickly drop towards the ground, shaking his third shot as i haul ass away. Over 300 meters out, still flying eradically, he manages to hit me, and i silently compliment his tremendous aim and tenacity. Swarms? I punch my AB and run full speed away, STILL getting hit. Forge gunners, thank you for remaining and reminding us all what it means to be skilled at AV You asshle dropshippers get to fly straight up into the sky, us swarmmies get to shoot your as while you do it. It's a fair trade, man. :) "Nothing + Nothing = Nothing. Now eat your bribery...err...I mean your breakfast, son." - Fred G. Sanford

Bahirae Serugiusu Vendetta Reactionary Force 467	Posted - 2015.01.23 15:52:00 - [11] - Quote I wish pilots would stop pulling words out of their butts to try and sound skilled. Before the swarms were buffed you just hovered around killing everything and if anyone hit you with anything you'd pop an afterburner and head to the top of the map and repeat. The State will always survive.
DUST Fiend Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 15622	Posted - 2015.01.23 15:55:00 - [12] - Quote Aiwha Bait wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: When i fight a good forge gunner, its heart pounding. I see that glow on the ground and instantly take evasive action. I drop elevation, twist to the side, pop my AB and rotate up and sideways to roll over his first shot. It misses, i get two seconds to apply some damage, then i punch straight up while leaning forward. He connects and my ship lists to one side. Doin a full barrel roll with the impact, i quickly drop towards the ground, shaking his third shot as i haul ass away. Over 300 meters out, still flying eradically, he manages to hit me, and i silently compliment his tremendous aim and tenacity. Swarms? I punch my AB and run full speed away, STILL getting hit. Forge gunners, thank you for remaining and reminding us all what it means to be skilled at AV You asshle dropshippers get to fly straight up into the sky, us swarmmies get to shoot your as while you do it. It's a fair trade, man. :) What you seem to be missing.is.that if.we.do ANYTHING other than fly straight up away from you...we die. Your chances of survival jump exponentially for every second that dropship isnt running away. You think its fun for us either? "Oh wow...sure is pretty up here, so glad im being 100% useless to my team right now. But hey, at least i can see this giant map and multiple sockets ill NEVER get to play on" Nevermind the fact that the first rule of piloting is: There is ALWAYS another AVer My YouTube (currently inactive) Homeless Dropship Enthusiast "See You Space Cowboy"
Lupus Wolf Minmatar Republic 102	Posted - 2015.01.23 15:56:00 - [13] - Quote If we had flare modules, or the ability to out-maneuver swarms, it would be better. Redundant usernames FTW Go home Damage Indicator, you're drunk Good, good... let the nanites flow through you
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1891	Posted - 2015.01.23 15:56:00 - [14] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: When i fight a good forge gunner, its heart pounding. I see that glow on the ground and instantly take evasive action. I drop elevation, twist to the side, pop my AB and rotate up and sideways to roll over his first shot. It misses, i get two seconds to apply some damage, then i punch straight up while leaning forward. He connects and my ship lists to one side. Doin a full barrel roll with the impact, i quickly drop towards the ground, shaking his third shot as i haul ass away. Over 300 meters out, still flying eradically, he manages to hit me, and i silently compliment his tremendous aim and tenacity. Swarms? I punch my AB and run full speed away, STILL getting hit. Forge gunners, thank you for remaining and reminding us all what it means to be skilled at AV that bait.
Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 599	Posted - 2015.01.23 15:58:00 - [15] - Quote REMNANCY 1 wrote: Lazer Fo Cused wrote: 1. Nice story OP last time i had a battle with a FG was months ago, all i see is SL users now with there never miss weapons Sir that is clear nonsense mock the SL as you will for whatever perceived reason you believe but sl's do fail and in many ways the forge is just as easy to use. 1. Which weapon requires aim, the FG or SL?
DUST Fiend Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 15622	Posted - 2015.01.23 15:58:00 - [16] - Quote Bahirae Serugiusu wrote: I wish pilots would stop pulling words out of their butts to try and sound skilled. Before the swarms were buffed you just hovered around killing everything and if anyone hit you with anything you'd pop an afterburner and head to the top of the map and repeat. Sins of the past dont justify sins in the present. I always acknowledged old swarms as being laughable, and supported many ideas to improve them. Sometimes though, you over improve, or the improvements have unexpected results due to.the nature of.the weapon itself. If swarm laucher missiles could.be evaded in some way, the whole issue would go away because now there is opportunity for skill vs skill engagements My YouTube (currently inactive) Homeless Dropship Enthusiast "See You Space Cowboy"
Aiwha Bait Demonic Cowboys 60	Posted - 2015.01.23 16:03:00 - [17] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Aiwha Bait wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: When i fight a good forge gunner, its heart pounding. I see that glow on the ground and instantly take evasive action. I drop elevation, twist to the side, pop my AB and rotate up and sideways to roll over his first shot. It misses, i get two seconds to apply some damage, then i punch straight up while leaning forward. He connects and my ship lists to one side. Doin a full barrel roll with the impact, i quickly drop towards the ground, shaking his third shot as i haul ass away. Over 300 meters out, still flying eradically, he manages to hit me, and i silently compliment his tremendous aim and tenacity. Swarms? I punch my AB and run full speed away, STILL getting hit. Forge gunners, thank you for remaining and reminding us all what it means to be skilled at AV You asshle dropshippers get to fly straight up into the sky, us swarmmies get to shoot your as while you do it. It's a fair trade, man. :) What you seem to be missing.is.that if.we.do ANYTHING other than fly straight up away from you...we die. Your chances of survival jump exponentially for every second that dropship isnt running away. You think its fun for us either? "Oh wow...sure is pretty up here, so glad im being 100% useless to my team right now. But hey, at least i can see this giant map and multiple sockets ill NEVER get to play on" Nevermind the fact that the first rule of piloting is: There is ALWAYS another AVer Nah, I totally get that. It gets really annoying for us swarmmies who take one shot (barely make a dent on some proto ships) and then they fly straight up. Maybe you just need to fly around the map more. Try flying between buildings. shrugs "Nothing + Nothing = Nothing. Now eat your bribery...err...I mean your breakfast, son." - Fred G. Sanford
Twelve Guage Death Firm. 448	Posted - 2015.01.23 16:07:00 - [18] - Quote I wish gun's like the RR ,CR ,AR and SR required skilled instead of aim assist to work. Sandwich maker LVL. 5 You've been like by Twelve Gauge = her grabbing your @$$. My like button is back. C:<
Sir Snugglz Red Star. 1175	Posted - 2015.01.23 16:10:00 - [19] - Quote Bahirae Serugiusu wrote: I wish pilots would stop pulling words out of their butts to try and sound skilled. Before the swarms were buffed you just hovered around killing everything and if anyone hit you with anything you'd pop an afterburner and head to the top of the map and repeat. Last I checked derpships were still getting killed by RDVs, invisible walls/objects, null cannon missiles, MCC missiles, passive aggro blaster installations.... doesnt sound like hovering and killing everything. -Pro AFKing LVL 5 -Luck is just one of my skills -Just because I make flying look easy doesn't mean it is
DUST Fiend Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 15622	Posted - 2015.01.23 16:11:00 - [20] - Quote Flying around the map opens you up to: - being locked by swarms, addin to your death counter - being knocked into things, such as those buildings youre flying between, by the AV hitting you - null cannon missiles (harder to dodge at low altitude thanks to less warning) - forge gunners ::shudders:: - rail tanks - friendly and enemy RDVs Flying to the sky: - usually still eat one volley of swarms, but theyre paced out enough to survive - possible random sky RDV. Nowhere is safe ::applies tinfoil:: - Boredom - beautiful lies My YouTube (currently inactive) Homeless Dropship Enthusiast "See You Space Cowboy"

Sir Snugglz Red Star. 1177	Posted - 2015.01.23 16:13:00 - [21] - Quote do what I do. Queue FW and afk while playing League of Legends. Only way to enjoy Dust -Pro AFKing LVL 5 -Luck is just one of my skills -Just because I make flying look easy doesn't mean it is
LT SHANKS Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 4776	Posted - 2015.01.23 16:18:00 - [22] - Quote PLCs, Swarms, FGs... None of them require skill. Just point, aim, and shoot. Now, knifing a dropship out of the sky... that requires skill, luck, and the right amount of tactical planning.
LUGMOS Quafe Premium 1649	Posted - 2015.01.23 16:20:00 - [23] - Quote I like the sins of the past line. Its like saying the AR shouldn't be buffed to be more competitive because it was OP for 5 patches... Same with Flaylock and other weapons and suits... I guess vehicles are different because they are super skilless... Official QuafeGäó Advocate Anti-FoTM Prof. V Forum Scavenger Prof. V
Twelve Guage Death Firm. 449	Posted - 2015.01.23 16:20:00 - [24] - Quote Sir Snugglz wrote: Bahirae Serugiusu wrote: I wish pilots would stop pulling words out of their butts to try and sound skilled. Before the swarms were buffed you just hovered around killing everything and if anyone hit you with anything you'd pop an afterburner and head to the top of the map and repeat. Last I checked derpships were still getting killed by RDVs, invisible walls/objects, null cannon missiles, MCC missiles, passive aggro blaster installations.... doesnt sound like hovering and killing everything. That sounds like something to bring up to ccp. I'm aware that you most likely have brought this up to ccp but you can't blame people on the ground for this. Sandwich maker LVL. 5 You've been like by Twelve Gauge = her grabbing your @$$. My like button is back. C:<
LUGMOS Quafe Premium 1649	Posted - 2015.01.23 16:21:00 - [25] - Quote LT SHANKS wrote: PLCs... None of them require skill. I sincerely hope you redact the first word from the first sentence. Official QuafeGäó Advocate Anti-FoTM Prof. V Forum Scavenger Prof. V
DUST Fiend Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 15623	Posted - 2015.01.23 16:21:00 - [26] - Quote LT SHANKS wrote: PLCs, Swarms, FGs... None of them require skill. Just point, aim, and shoot. Now, knifing a dropship out of the sky... that requires skill, luck, and the right amount of tactical planning. That bait is so delicious Everyone knows only pussies use knives. Real men PUNCH dropships out of the sky My YouTube (currently inactive) Homeless Dropship Enthusiast "See You Space Cowboy"
LT SHANKS Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 4776	Posted - 2015.01.23 16:25:00 - [27] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: LT SHANKS wrote: PLCs... None of them require skill. I sincerely hope you redact the first word from the first sentence. If PLC was a word and not an acronym, I would.
LUGMOS Quafe Premium 1649	Posted - 2015.01.23 16:26:00 - [28] - Quote LT SHANKS wrote: LUGMOS wrote: LT SHANKS wrote: PLCs... None of them require skill. I sincerely hope you redact the first word from the first sentence. If PLC was a word and not an acronym, I would. Remove the acronym... Official QuafeGäó Advocate Anti-FoTM Prof. V Forum Scavenger Prof. V
Atiim Titans of Phoenix 15220	Posted - 2015.01.23 16:27:00 - [29] - Quote And I wish most Pilots in this game were actually good. Guess well both be waiting for a Genie The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Copharus Arkana Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 26	Posted - 2015.01.23 16:28:00 - [30] - Quote I think its funny how people defend the SL. Anyone can look at it crooked and see that no skill is needed to use it. The fact that people defend it just shows who the real scrubs are.

Sir Dukey Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 1578	Posted - 2015.01.23 16:30:00 - [31] - Quote Copharus Arkana wrote: I think its funny how people defend the SL. Anyone can look at it crooked and see that no skill is needed to use it. The fact that people defend it just shows who the real scrubs are. Atiim He acts as if he can't kill a parked LAV with a proto swarm. Acquire Currency, Disregard Female Canis lupus familiaris
LUGMOS Quafe Premium 1649	Posted - 2015.01.23 16:32:00 - [32] - Quote Sir Dukey wrote: Copharus Arkana wrote: I think its funny how people defend the SL. Anyone can look at it crooked and see that no skill is needed to use it. The fact that people defend it just shows who the real scrubs are. Atiim He acts as if he can't kill a parked LAV with a proto swarm. Naw, he thinks his ultimate skill with Swarms trumps any pilot... Then he turns around and says they all suck... Official QuafeGäó Advocate Anti-FoTM Prof. V Forum Scavenger Prof. V
Twelve Guage Death Firm. 450	Posted - 2015.01.23 16:39:00 - [33] - Quote Copharus Arkana wrote: I think its funny how people defend the SL. Anyone can look at it crooked and see that no skill is needed to use it. The fact that people defend it just shows who the real scrubs are. Fyi: The SL dose require skill. I have skill point in them to prove it. Sandwich maker LVL. 5 You've been like by Twelve Gauge = her grabbing your @$$. My like button is back. C:<
LUGMOS Quafe Premium 1650	Posted - 2015.01.23 16:40:00 - [34] - Quote Twelve Guage wrote: Copharus Arkana wrote: I think its funny how people defend the SL. Anyone can look at it crooked and see that no skill is needed to use it. The fact that people defend it just shows who the real scrubs are. Fyi: The SL dose require skill. I have skill point in them to prove it. (-_- ) Official QuafeGäó Advocate Anti-FoTM Prof. V Forum Scavenger Prof. V
taxi bastard Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 338	Posted - 2015.01.23 16:42:00 - [35] - Quote forge guns and PC are also anti infantry so dual use weapons swarms are not. swarms to need planning more so than aiming, due to the speed of the missiles and them often hitting objects. its a skill, but different. are swarms easier to use, sure. but they have their drawbacks too.
REMNANCY 1 Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 74	Posted - 2015.01.23 17:38:00 - [36] - Quote I think if anything the SL is the victim of the slapdash nature of the development practices employed by the old guard devs before CCP Rattati came to the helm I think originally the SL was supposed to be easily defeated by countermeasures in exchange for it's relatively easy use basically having a low skill to power ratio instead requiring massed fire to be effective but the countermeasures were never implemented to here lies the problem
Echo 1991 Titans of Phoenix VP Gaming Alliance 699	Posted - 2015.01.23 17:47:00 - [37] - Quote taxi bastard wrote: forge guns and PC are also anti infantry so dual use weapons swarms are not. swarms to need planning more so than aiming, due to the speed of the missiles and them often hitting objects. its a skill, but different. are swarms easier to use, sure. but they have their drawbacks too. People seem to forget that swarms can only lock vehicles. No it isn't hard to look at a vehicle and press R1, but when I don't only have a sidearm for protection against everyone else on the map it makes up for it.
Echo 1991 Titans of Phoenix VP Gaming Alliance 699	Posted - 2015.01.23 17:49:00 - [38] - Quote REMNANCY 1 wrote: I think if anything the SL is the victim of the slapdash nature of the development practices employed by the old guard devs before CCP Rattati came to the helm I think originally the SL was supposed to be easily defeated by countermeasures in exchange for it's relatively easy use basically having a low skill to power ratio instead requiring massed fire to be effective but the countermeasures were never implemented to here lies the problem Swarms aren't affected by countermeasures, also giving dropships the ability to effectively not have to worry about swarms isn't the answer. All that is need is an overall vehicle buff. That's it.
Vesta Opalus T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K General Tso's Alliance 328	Posted - 2015.01.23 18:11:00 - [39] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: When i fight a good forge gunner, its heart pounding. I see that glow on the ground and instantly take evasive action. I drop elevation, twist to the side, pop my AB and rotate up and sideways to roll over his first shot. It misses, i get two seconds to apply some damage, then i punch straight up while leaning forward. He connects and my ship lists to one side. Doin a full barrel roll with the impact, i quickly drop towards the ground, shaking his third shot as i haul ass away. Over 300 meters out, still flying eradically, he manages to hit me, and i silently compliment his tremendous aim and tenacity. Swarms? I punch my AB and run full speed away, STILL getting hit. Forge gunners, thank you for remaining and reminding us all what it means to be skilled at AV While I probably disagree with the majority of vehicle cunts about swarms being overpowered (they arent), I do agree that fighting with and against swarms is boring and not very skill based for either party. I'd love to see this weapon reworked so that it wasnt just a fire and forget deterrent.
Echo 1991 Titans of Phoenix VP Gaming Alliance 700	Posted - 2015.01.23 18:29:00 - [40] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: When i fight a good forge gunner, its heart pounding. I see that glow on the ground and instantly take evasive action. I drop elevation, twist to the side, pop my AB and rotate up and sideways to roll over his first shot. It misses, i get two seconds to apply some damage, then i punch straight up while leaning forward. He connects and my ship lists to one side. Doin a full barrel roll with the impact, i quickly drop towards the ground, shaking his third shot as i haul ass away. Over 300 meters out, still flying eradically, he manages to hit me, and i silently compliment his tremendous aim and tenacity. Swarms? I punch my AB and run full speed away, STILL getting hit. Forge gunners, thank you for remaining and reminding us all what it means to be skilled at AV While I probably disagree with the majority of vehicle cunts about swarms being overpowered (they arent), I do agree that fighting with and against swarms is boring and not very skill based for either party. I'd love to see this weapon reworked so that it wasnt just a fire and forget deterrent. AV is designed to blow vehicles up not scare them.

Vesta Opalus T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K General Tso's Alliance 328	Posted - 2015.01.23 18:37:00 - [41] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: When i fight a good forge gunner, its heart pounding. I see that glow on the ground and instantly take evasive action. I drop elevation, twist to the side, pop my AB and rotate up and sideways to roll over his first shot. It misses, i get two seconds to apply some damage, then i punch straight up while leaning forward. He connects and my ship lists to one side. Doin a full barrel roll with the impact, i quickly drop towards the ground, shaking his third shot as i haul ass away. Over 300 meters out, still flying eradically, he manages to hit me, and i silently compliment his tremendous aim and tenacity. Swarms? I punch my AB and run full speed away, STILL getting hit. Forge gunners, thank you for remaining and reminding us all what it means to be skilled at AV While I probably disagree with the majority of vehicle cunts about swarms being overpowered (they arent), I do agree that fighting with and against swarms is boring and not very skill based for either party. I'd love to see this weapon reworked so that it wasnt just a fire and forget deterrent. AV is designed to blow vehicles up not scare them. Im going to have to disagree with you there. AV in dust was specifically and deliberately designed not to blow up vehicles unless they were piloted by idiots. You never saw all the discussions about AV being an area denial tool or a deterrent? Or the windows of opportunity crap that basically gives vehicles a way to ignore AV to a much greater extent whenever their cooldowns are up? In Dust 514, AV is not designed to kill vehicles. I wish this was not the case, because I think its stupid and it makes running AV suicidal and annoying as ****, but it is true.
Vesta Opalus T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K General Tso's Alliance 328	Posted - 2015.01.23 18:39:00 - [42] - Quote Copharus Arkana wrote: I think its funny how people defend the SL. Anyone can look at it crooked and see that no skill is needed to use it. The fact that people defend it just shows who the real scrubs are. Because most vehicle players only look at the direct interaction between their vehicle and the swarm launcher. What these people fail to realize is that running an AV fit is both ineffective (it is unlikely your swarms will kill the dropship if the dropship pilot is paying attention) and also that ALL THE TIME WHEN THE AV PLAYER IS NOT USING HIS SWARMS ON YOU IS TAKEN UP WITH HIM FRANTICALLY AVOIDING AND SCRAMBLING AWAY FROM INFANTRY THAT ARE CONSTANTLY TRYING TO KILL HIM. It takes virtually no skill to use a swarm launcher, it takes a great deal of skill to use a swarm launcher fitting.
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1896	Posted - 2015.01.23 18:41:00 - [43] - Quote rail turret tanks wreck dropships far quicker and with less chance of escaping. getting into rail tank is cheaper and requires less sp than a fully decked out proto swarm fit too. for some reason you never hear these people whining about swarms whine about that too.
Vesta Opalus T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K General Tso's Alliance 328	Posted - 2015.01.23 18:45:00 - [44] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: rail turret tanks wreck dropships far quicker and with less chance of escaping. getting into rail tank is cheaper and requires less sp than a fully decked out proto swarm fit too. for some reason you never hear these people whining about swarms whine about that too. Mmm hmm. I wonder why. I guess it will always remain a mystery. P.S. did you just read the post I made on this other thread, god damn I even thought you were replying to it
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2809	Posted - 2015.01.23 18:49:00 - [45] - Quote Atiim wrote: And I wish most Pilots in this game were actually good. Guess well both be waiting for a Genie Looooool I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Atiim Titans of Phoenix 15226	Posted - 2015.01.23 18:53:00 - [46] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Atiim wrote: And I wish most Pilots in this game were actually good. Guess well both be waiting for a Genie Looooool You're no exception, I've fought Sicas that were harder to take down than you. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Cyzad4 Blackfish Corp. 589	Posted - 2015.01.23 18:56:00 - [47] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: When i fight a good forge gunner, its heart pounding. I see that glow on the ground and instantly take evasive action. I drop elevation, twist to the side, pop my AB and rotate up and sideways to roll over his first shot. It misses, i get two seconds to apply some damage, then i punch straight up while leaning forward. He connects and my ship lists to one side. Doin a full barrel roll with the impact, i quickly drop towards the ground, shaking his third shot as i haul ass away. Over 300 meters out, still flying eradically, he manages to hit me, and i silently compliment his tremendous aim and tenacity. Swarms? I punch my AB and run full speed away, STILL getting hit. Forge gunners, thank you for remaining and reminding us all what it means to be skilled at AV I have to say blasting an ADS out of the sky w an FG as he's trying to run is one of the most rewarding things for me. Even more so when you get the 1/1000 people who don't bail on the way down and you get the extra 50 wp, kind of a "nice shot o7" which is appreciated and rare. Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair.
Operative 1174 Uuali Y.A.M.A.H 389	Posted - 2015.01.23 19:10:00 - [48] - Quote And there is no reason a swarm can't be like a Javalin. One shot with more damage, but then reload. Like a plasma cannon, but with missile damage and still need to lock. Give te missile more travel time as a trade off to locking. I'm better than laser focused; I'm hybrid focused.
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 1064	Posted - 2015.01.23 19:17:00 - [49] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: AV is designed to blow vehicles up not scare them. The correct terminology is "Repel". Anyway a snippet from another post Your Mom Has A Burger For You Downstairs In the Kitchen, But This Is A Quote From Dovallis, Whom wrote: Standard Swarm == Standard group of damaging projectiles 1. Vison Tracking --- If you want the swarms to hit, you've got to keep the target near the center of the reticule so that the swarms can "chase" your pinpointed target. 2.Auto Pilot -- When unguided, the swarms slow down and loose focus (spread out) but still follow target. http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU Dust to Dust Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.
Operative 1174 Uuali Y.A.M.A.H 389	Posted - 2015.01.23 19:18:00 - [50] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: Copharus Arkana wrote: I think its funny how people defend the SL. Anyone can look at it crooked and see that no skill is needed to use it. The fact that people defend it just shows who the real scrubs are. Because most vehicle players only look at the direct interaction between their vehicle and the swarm launcher. What these people fail to realize is that running an AV fit is both ineffective (it is unlikely your swarms will kill the dropship if the dropship pilot is paying attention) and also that ALL THE TIME WHEN THE AV PLAYER IS NOT USING HIS SWARMS ON YOU IS TAKEN UP WITH HIM FRANTICALLY AVOIDING AND SCRAMBLING AWAY FROM INFANTRY THAT ARE CONSTANTLY TRYING TO KILL HIM. It takes virtually no skill to use a swarm launcher, it takes a great deal of skill to use a swarm launcher fitting. Every time I catch a swarmer sitting back on a structure sipping beer the whole time. No one is messing with them. That should be the basis for weapon balance. Trading weapon for safety is necessary for playing the game. No one is any different than you are. I go scout I give tank, I go assault I give up stealth, I go ADS I give up being able to dodge in and out of cover with a smaller hit box. Cry me a river. Keep swarms as is and then let there sig light up when they fire on my ADS so I can have a fair chance at shooting them as they do me and then we'll talk about balance. I'm better than laser focused; I'm hybrid focused.

Vesta Opalus T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K General Tso's Alliance 332	Posted - 2015.01.23 19:38:00 - [51] - Quote Operative 1174 Uuali wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: Copharus Arkana wrote: I think its funny how people defend the SL. Anyone can look at it crooked and see that no skill is needed to use it. The fact that people defend it just shows who the real scrubs are. Because most vehicle players only look at the direct interaction between their vehicle and the swarm launcher. What these people fail to realize is that running an AV fit is both ineffective (it is unlikely your swarms will kill the dropship if the dropship pilot is paying attention) and also that ALL THE TIME WHEN THE AV PLAYER IS NOT USING HIS SWARMS ON YOU IS TAKEN UP WITH HIM FRANTICALLY AVOIDING AND SCRAMBLING AWAY FROM INFANTRY THAT ARE CONSTANTLY TRYING TO KILL HIM. It takes virtually no skill to use a swarm launcher, it takes a great deal of skill to use a swarm launcher fitting. Every time I catch a swarmer sitting back on a structure sipping beer the whole time. No one is messing with them. That should be the basis for weapon balance. Trading weapon for safety is necessary for playing the game. No one is any different than you are. I go scout I give tank, I go assault I give up stealth, I go ADS I give up being able to dodge in and out of cover with a smaller hit box. Cry me a river. Keep swarms as is and then let there sig light up when they fire on my ADS so I can have a fair chance at shooting them as they do me and then we'll talk about balance. If hes sitting back on a structure sipping beer hes an easy target, and if you cant solo a swarmer then the swarms arent the problem. If the situation is that his team is completely stomping yours and giving him the leisure to just sit there and wait for you, then the swarms again arent the problem. I love how ADS pilots pretend that running a swarm fit is just some WP farming picnic experience because they saw some guy alone one time. If I was in that game on your team that guy would be murdered within half a minute, just because your blueberries were ** doesnt mean running swarms is always equivalent to skipping through the meadows with your girlfriend. And P.S. I agree that ADS needs a lock on warning, better rendering of swarms at distance, etc. Or better yet a complete reworking of swarm launchers so they are more fun for both sides. But seriously ** off with the running swarm launchers takes no skill bull.
taxi bastard Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 340	Posted - 2015.01.23 20:51:00 - [52] - Quote Operative 1174 Uuali wrote: Keep swarms as is and then let there sig light up when they fire on my ADS so I can have a fair chance at shooting them as they do me and then we'll talk about balance. You say that, but depending on which av suit i use its 1 or 2 splash damage ***** to kill me, also If your at a reasonable height shooting down at me your not on my tacnet either
Stupid Blueberry Pure Evil. Capital Punishment. 965	Posted - 2015.01.23 21:06:00 - [53] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: Operative 1174 Uuali wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: Copharus Arkana wrote: I think its funny how people defend the SL. Anyone can look at it crooked and see that no skill is needed to use it. The fact that people defend it just shows who the real scrubs are. Because most vehicle players only look at the direct interaction between their vehicle and the swarm launcher. What these people fail to realize is that running an AV fit is both ineffective (it is unlikely your swarms will kill the dropship if the dropship pilot is paying attention) and also that ALL THE TIME WHEN THE AV PLAYER IS NOT USING HIS SWARMS ON YOU IS TAKEN UP WITH HIM FRANTICALLY AVOIDING AND SCRAMBLING AWAY FROM INFANTRY THAT ARE CONSTANTLY TRYING TO KILL HIM. It takes virtually no skill to use a swarm launcher, it takes a great deal of skill to use a swarm launcher fitting. Every time I catch a swarmer sitting back on a structure sipping beer the whole time. No one is messing with them. That should be the basis for weapon balance. Trading weapon for safety is necessary for playing the game. No one is any different than you are. I go scout I give tank, I go assault I give up stealth, I go ADS I give up being able to dodge in and out of cover with a smaller hit box. Cry me a river. Keep swarms as is and then let there sig light up when they fire on my ADS so I can have a fair chance at shooting them as they do me and then we'll talk about balance. If hes sitting back on a structure sipping beer hes an easy target, and if you cant solo a swarmer then the swarms arent the problem. If the situation is that his team is completely stomping yours and giving him the leisure to just sit there and wait for you, then the swarms again arent the problem. I love how ADS pilots pretend that running a swarm fit is just some WP farming picnic experience because they saw some guy alone one time. If I was in that game on your team that guy would be murdered within half a minute, just because your blueberries were ** doesnt mean running swarms is always equivalent to skipping through the meadows with your girlfriend. And P.S. I agree that ADS needs a lock on warning, better rendering of swarms at distance, etc. Or better yet a complete reworking of swarm launchers so they are more fun for both sides. But seriously ** off with the running swarm launchers takes no skill bull. It is, though. I literally have an AV alt that I hop on whenever I'm hurting for money. You guys seriously need to stop pretending "but I only have a sidearm" because the only swarmers that aren't minmandos are usually gallogis that are sitting on top of a roof scanning and swarming the occasional vehicle. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Haajakin Kalen. Blueberry smokin' that crack y'all
Vesta Opalus T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K General Tso's Alliance 336	Posted - 2015.01.23 21:20:00 - [54] - Quote Stupid Blueberry wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: Operative 1174 Uuali wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: Copharus Arkana wrote: I think its funny how people defend the SL. Anyone can look at it crooked and see that no skill is needed to use it. The fact that people defend it just shows who the real scrubs are. Because most vehicle players only look at the direct interaction between their vehicle and the swarm launcher. What these people fail to realize is that running an AV fit is both ineffective (it is unlikely your swarms will kill the dropship if the dropship pilot is paying attention) and also that ALL THE TIME WHEN THE AV PLAYER IS NOT USING HIS SWARMS ON YOU IS TAKEN UP WITH HIM FRANTICALLY AVOIDING AND SCRAMBLING AWAY FROM INFANTRY THAT ARE CONSTANTLY TRYING TO KILL HIM. It takes virtually no skill to use a swarm launcher, it takes a great deal of skill to use a swarm launcher fitting. Every time I catch a swarmer sitting back on a structure sipping beer the whole time. No one is messing with them. That should be the basis for weapon balance. Trading weapon for safety is necessary for playing the game. No one is any different than you are. I go scout I give tank, I go assault I give up stealth, I go ADS I give up being able to dodge in and out of cover with a smaller hit box. Cry me a river. Keep swarms as is and then let there sig light up when they fire on my ADS so I can have a fair chance at shooting them as they do me and then we'll talk about balance. If hes sitting back on a structure sipping beer hes an easy target, and if you cant solo a swarmer then the swarms arent the problem. If the situation is that his team is completely stomping yours and giving him the leisure to just sit there and wait for you, then the swarms again arent the problem. I love how ADS pilots pretend that running a swarm fit is just some WP farming picnic experience because they saw some guy alone one time. If I was in that game on your team that guy would be murdered within half a minute, just because your blueberries were ** doesnt mean running swarms is always equivalent to skipping through the meadows with your girlfriend. And P.S. I agree that ADS needs a lock on warning, better rendering of swarms at distance, etc. Or better yet a complete reworking of swarm launchers so they are more fun for both sides. But seriously ** off with the running swarm launchers takes no skill bull. It is, though. I literally have an AV alt that I hop on whenever I'm hurting for money. You guys seriously need to stop pretending "but I only have a sidearm" because the only swarmers that aren't minmandos are usually gallogis that are sitting on top of a roof scanning and swarming the occasional vehicle. You hurt for money in this game? lol. I prefer scouts for AV because I have more freedom of movement and can escape scans and am more evasive in general. Im not sure why you think minmandos are used by everyone using swarms, but since every post you make seems to try to pigeonhole all AV into some magical stress free WP farming masterrace that cant be harmed, I dont see why Im even paying attention to you in the first place. I played my vehicle alt all day yesterday, and we saw a grand total of one minmando using swarms the whole day. Also we killed him 5 times or so before he managed to kill a single one of my dropships. Yeah swarms sure are OP. So amazing how even on the suit that is the best possible fitting they can go 1k/5d vs. vehicles which they are built specifically to counter, and he only killed me because he went double swarm launcher and I didnt feel like afterburning away. Saw many more forge gunners, logi swarmers, and free fit militia swarmers than minmandos, but yeah Ill totally believe your blank assertion that all swarmers use minmandos even though my experience on both sides of the equation are 100% disproof of that.
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 1269	Posted - 2015.01.23 21:21:00 - [55] - Quote Juno's Swarm Idea. Seriously, check it out. DPS and numbers can be balanced, but the base mechanics of the weapon need changed. Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
Cody Sietz Random Gunz RISE of LEGION 4338	Posted - 2015.01.23 21:22:00 - [56] - Quote Is there a reason we can't get a "flare" mod for pilots? Seriously, it had to has to have been mentioned before. to have a module that could scramble swarms( maybe make them detonate before they hit or something) would probably make drop shipping more enjoyable. I also think that the system we have makes it impossible to balance swarms. You need them then tanks and even LAVs become harder to kill. You buff them(to make them better be land vehicles) and drop ships of all kinds suffer. ADSs in PC annoy the holy hell out of me, but I have to give the guys running them respect when they force me out of a scout suit and into a sentinel. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Stupid Blueberry Pure Evil. Capital Punishment. 967	Posted - 2015.01.23 21:23:00 - [57] - Quote Sure, YOUR experience gets full credit while mine gets none, even though I am on both sides of the argument every single day. Seriously, soloing 3 Incubi back to ack to back is not ok. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Haajakin Kalen. Blueberry smokin' that crack y'all
Moochie Cricket Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 982	Posted - 2015.01.23 21:26:00 - [58] - Quote Calmando with assault rail rifle, swarms, and triple damage mods. Do not go hunting for vehicles, just play as if you are a slow assault and only pull the swarm launcher out when a vehicle is nearly on top of you. I consider that to be EZ mode and shudder to think how easy a minmando with swarms and a combat rifle would be. FOR THE STATE
Vesta Opalus T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K General Tso's Alliance 336	Posted - 2015.01.23 21:28:00 - [59] - Quote Stupid Blueberry wrote: Sure, YOUR experience gets full credit while mine gets none, even though I am on both sides of the argument every single day. Seriously, soloing 3 Incubi back to back to back is not ok. And the argument isn't really about the minmando, its about the commando. All fo you swarmers like to bring up the "fact" that you only have a sidearm to defend yourself when in reality most only use a commando and even then, the bolt pistol is still a thing. When you say something that is blatantly and obviously untrue, dont be surprised when your opinion gets completely discounted. But have fun killing those incubuses back to back and pretending that your experiences killing one absolutely ******** pilot represents the sum total of dust 514 game balance.
Stupid Blueberry Pure Evil. Capital Punishment. 968	Posted - 2015.01.23 21:38:00 - [60] - Quote You can say that it's "blatantly untrue" all you want. You're just trying to protect your wp farm. And yeah, they were **** pilots, but putting out that much dps in such a short amount of time from a weapon that was designed to be a deterrent is completely unreasonable. (To clarify, this wasn't one pilot who kept calling in Icububi, this was three guys circling over me trying to kill me at one time) Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Haajakin Kalen. Blueberry smokin' that crack y'all

Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 758	Posted - 2015.01.23 21:56:00 - [61] - Quote I think the issue is sort of like scans. Either swarms get in hits or they dont. If they don't dropships will always escape death, if they do Swarms have an abnormally high likleyhood of landing a kill. There is no grey area where either swarmer skill or dropship pilot skill will be able to negate one another. With the lock on style we have, Pilots aren't fightig the swarmer, they are fighting against A.I missiles in flight, that do 90% of the work. Swarmers root for the missile, and when the AI wins, they feel like they won, and the pilot feels cheated. Even if pilots had flares, the swarmer would feel cheated because he could do everything right the AI still wont land a hit. We should try to come up with some middle ground so that swarmers and pilots have a fighting chance that is within thier control and not th A.I. instead of, frankly, snitching about swarms or that once upon a time where an XT1 landed on your head. Core Mechanics have got to be tweaked before this issue can be resolved. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
taxi bastard Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 341	Posted - 2015.01.23 22:08:00 - [62] - Quote people talk about minimando...... its heavy suit with half the EHP and the same hit box. for me its far from an ideal front line suit as its so easy to hit and it has similar EHP to an assault.
Juno Tristan Obscure Reference 289	Posted - 2015.01.23 22:22:00 - [63] - Quote Aiwha Bait wrote: Nah, I totally get that. It gets really annoying for us swarmmies who take one shot (barely make a dent on some proto ships) and then they fly straight up. Maybe you just need to fly around the map more. Try flying between buildings. shrugs flying around buildings doesn't do ****, the swarms will follow the exact path you did it's different to fighting tanks where swarms are relatively low to the ground and can more easily hit into hills/obtacles
Vesta Opalus T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K General Tso's Alliance 338	Posted - 2015.01.23 22:23:00 - [64] - Quote Stupid Blueberry wrote: You can say that it's "blatantly untrue" all you want. You're just trying to protect your wp farm. And yeah, they were ** pilots, but putting out that much dps in such a short amount of time from a weapon that was designed to be a deterrent is completely unreasonable. (To clarify, this wasn't one pilot who kept calling in Icububi, this was three guys circling over me trying to kill me at one time) If it was such an incredible fringe case that three pilots that are that terrible all died to one swarmer in quick succession without killing him, then why even bother to mention it? Do you believe that that is actually representative of a typical AV/V interaction? And WP farm? Thats a joke. If I want to WP farm Ill do it in a logi suit and spam equipment/rep tool, like god intended. Who even gives a ** about WPs anyway? Aside from orbitals they get you nothing. You are being a stereotype of a shitheaded vehicle player: you assume every AV player is running optimized minmando or logi fits, never being killed by infantry, only there to farm WP, asserting that dropships are so weak that its reasonable to expect that you can solo three incubuses at one time with a single AV player. How unreasonable do you have to get to realize that you are being insane and actually think about what you type before you type it? I want these things to be balanced against each other and fun to use on both sides. I dont see how anything you've said in this thread helps to inform balance decisions in any way and it all sounds like a bunch of one sided bullshit.
Juno Tristan Obscure Reference 290	Posted - 2015.01.23 22:56:00 - [65] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: Copharus Arkana wrote: I think its funny how people defend the SL. Anyone can look at it crooked and see that no skill is needed to use it. The fact that people defend it just shows who the real scrubs are. Because most vehicle players only look at the direct interaction between their vehicle and the swarm launcher. What these people fail to realize is that running an AV fit is both ineffective (it is unlikely your swarms will kill the dropship if the dropship pilot is paying attention) and also that ALL THE TIME WHEN THE AV PLAYER IS NOT USING HIS SWARMS ON YOU IS TAKEN UP WITH HIM FRANTICALLY AVOIDING AND SCRAMBLING AWAY FROM INFANTRY THAT ARE CONSTANTLY TRYING TO KILL HIM. It takes virtually no skill to use a swarm launcher, it takes a great deal of skill to use a swarm launcher fitting. In this scenario you've gone from 1 vehicle v 1 swarmer to 1 vehicle + 15 infantry v 1 swarmer what are the other 15 guys doing on your team?
Echo 1991 Titans of Phoenix VP Gaming Alliance 700	Posted - 2015.01.24 00:25:00 - [66] - Quote Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: AV is designed to blow vehicles up not scare them. The correct terminology is "Repel". Anyway a snippet from another post Your Mom Has A Burger For You Downstairs In the Kitchen, But This Is A Quote From Dovallis, Whom wrote: Standard Swarm == Standard group of damaging projectiles 1. Vison Tracking --- If you want the swarms to hit, you've got to keep the target near the center of the reticule so that the swarms can "chase" your pinpointed target. 2.Auto Pilot -- When unguided, the swarms slow down and loose focus (spread out) but still follow target. I'm sorry, but is my AR only meant to 'repel' infantry? It is meant to make them go boom. Not scare them.
Vesta Opalus T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K General Tso's Alliance 339	Posted - 2015.01.24 01:30:00 - [67] - Quote Juno Tristan wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: Copharus Arkana wrote: I think its funny how people defend the SL. Anyone can look at it crooked and see that no skill is needed to use it. The fact that people defend it just shows who the real scrubs are. Because most vehicle players only look at the direct interaction between their vehicle and the swarm launcher. What these people fail to realize is that running an AV fit is both ineffective (it is unlikely your swarms will kill the dropship if the dropship pilot is paying attention) and also that ALL THE TIME WHEN THE AV PLAYER IS NOT USING HIS SWARMS ON YOU IS TAKEN UP WITH HIM FRANTICALLY AVOIDING AND SCRAMBLING AWAY FROM INFANTRY THAT ARE CONSTANTLY TRYING TO KILL HIM. It takes virtually no skill to use a swarm launcher, it takes a great deal of skill to use a swarm launcher fitting. In this scenario you've gone from 1 vehicle v 1 swarmer to 1 vehicle + 15 infantry v 1 swarmer what are the other 15 guys doing on your team? Hopefully something useful so that the swarm fit guy can use them to help him out. I didnt say the swarmers blueberries were doing nothing, but if you think active blueberries can save you from getting ganked by random enemies then Im not sure if you're playing the same game as me.
Juno Tristan Obscure Reference 293	Posted - 2015.01.24 02:03:00 - [68] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: Juno Tristan wrote: 1 vehicle v 1 swarmer to 1 vehicle + 15 infantry v 1 swarmer what are the other 15 guys doing on your team? Hopefully something useful so that the swarm fit guy can use them to help him out. I didnt say the swarmers blueberries were doing nothing, but if you think active blueberries can save you from getting ganked by random enemies then Im not sure if you're playing the same game as me. My point was it's not 1 v 1, it's 16 v 16. Chances are someone else has seen the tank/ads and is trying to kill it too
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 1064	Posted - 2015.01.24 02:39:00 - [69] - Quote There's no such thing as 1v1 with a tank. A tank is spotted and engaged by at least 5 people at any one time, regardless of whether they have AV or not. Many will switch to AV because it's no hassle to do so. I laugh at the people who cry that they are "unarmed" when they use Swarms. (looks back through thread for a laugh or two) I use a Scrambler Pistol and Bolt Pistol on a regular basis. If you can actually aim, you can usually kill the people attacking you, because they have to follow you into your range. http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU Dust to Dust Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.
Reign Omega T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K General Tso's Alliance 1139	Posted - 2015.01.24 02:48:00 - [70] - Quote All proto Av, forge, swarms, plc. I even fly up and put mines in conspicuous places. Its chesS not checkers. Mark a$$ tricks, and bags of dicks....

Vesta Opalus T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K General Tso's Alliance 340	Posted - 2015.01.24 03:06:00 - [71] - Quote Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: There's no such thing as 1v1 with a tank. A tank is spotted and engaged by at least 5 people at any one time, regardless of whether they have AV or not. Many will switch to AV because it's no hassle to do so. I laugh at the people who cry that they are "unarmed" when they use Swarms. (looks back through thread for a laugh or two) I use a Scrambler Pistol and Bolt Pistol on a regular basis. If you can actually aim, you can usually kill the people attacking you, because they have to follow you into your range. Ive never claimed that swarm users are unarmed, but if you think people fighting with sidearms are on an even level with people using light anti infantry weapons, you're not just wrong, you're mathematically wrong. Even the commando has to deal with having a slow, squishy, easy to scan suit to gain the ability to run an AV suit with a light weapon. AV is at a big disadvantage to normal infantry. Anyone who says they arent are insane. Anyone who says they are completely helpless is also insane.
Slave of MORTE Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic 189	Posted - 2015.01.24 03:18:00 - [72] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: REMNANCY 1 wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: When i fight a good forge gunner, its heart pounding. I see that glow on the ground and instantly take evasive action. I drop elevation, twist to the side, pop my AB and rotate up and sideways to roll over his first shot. It misses, i get two seconds to apply some damage, then i punch straight up while leaning forward. He connects and my ship lists to one side. Doin a full barrel roll with the impact, i quickly drop towards the ground, shaking his third shot as i haul ass away. Over 300 meters out, still flying eradically, he manages to hit me, and i silently compliment his tremendous aim and tenacity. Swarms? I punch my AB and run full speed away, STILL getting hit. Forge gunners, thank you for remaining and reminding us all what it means to be skilled at AV Why does every weapon need to have high skill requirements? After all user friendliness is it's own balancing and variety aspect. True, but a weapon that requires a fraction of the skill and effort probably shouldnt be doing similar amounts of damage. Skill vs skill battles are fun and balanced. Taking guaranteed damage because someone looked up....less so. What if they dropped the damage of swarms extended the clip drastically and increased the rate of fire Make you repeatedly lock and fire m.personally I say bring back swarm aiming add a laser sight and make it so you have to paint your target Yet another slave of Mortedeamor
Juno Tristan Obscure Reference 293	Posted - 2015.01.24 03:37:00 - [73] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: There's no such thing as 1v1 with a tank. A tank is spotted and engaged by at least 5 people at any one time, regardless of whether they have AV or not. Many will switch to AV because it's no hassle to do so. I laugh at the people who cry that they are "unarmed" when they use Swarms. (looks back through thread for a laugh or two) I use a Scrambler Pistol and Bolt Pistol on a regular basis. If you can actually aim, you can usually kill the people attacking you, because they have to follow you into your range. Ive never claimed that swarm users are unarmed, but if you think people fighting with sidearms are on an even level with people using light anti infantry weapons, you're not just wrong, you're mathematically wrong. Even the commando has to deal with having a slow, squishy, easy to scan suit to gain the ability to run an AV suit with a light weapon. AV is at a big disadvantage to normal infantry. Anyone who says they arent are insane. Anyone who says they are completely helpless is also insane. That's why its best to pair swarms with a scout suit, sneak around and get first mover advantage or a commando suit and switch to your other weapon
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 5637	Posted - 2015.01.24 03:49:00 - [74] - Quote I wish ADS pilots weren't whiny babies. But we can't all get what we want. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
iKILLu osborne Dead Man's Game RUST415 613	Posted - 2015.01.24 04:01:00 - [75] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: I wish ADS pilots weren't whiny babies. But we can't all get what we want. and i wish you as part of the cpm would look into it, to see if there is anything to make it a balanced ordeal. if you shoot me from the redline i will ensure your death will be a swift one
Bahirae Serugiusu Vendetta Reactionary Force 470	Posted - 2015.01.24 04:25:00 - [76] - Quote iKILLu osborne wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: I wish ADS pilots weren't whiny babies. But we can't all get what we want. and i wish you as part of the cpm would look into it, to see if there is anything to make it a balanced ordeal. If they balance it pilots will be complaining that they aren't the immortal killing machines of pre-swarm buff and AV will be complaining that they have to use forge guns to get kills. No one will ever be happy no matter what they do. The State will always survive.
Vesta Opalus T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K General Tso's Alliance 342	Posted - 2015.01.24 05:10:00 - [77] - Quote Juno Tristan wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: There's no such thing as 1v1 with a tank. A tank is spotted and engaged by at least 5 people at any one time, regardless of whether they have AV or not. Many will switch to AV because it's no hassle to do so. I laugh at the people who cry that they are "unarmed" when they use Swarms. (looks back through thread for a laugh or two) I use a Scrambler Pistol and Bolt Pistol on a regular basis. If you can actually aim, you can usually kill the people attacking you, because they have to follow you into your range. Ive never claimed that swarm users are unarmed, but if you think people fighting with sidearms are on an even level with people using light anti infantry weapons, you're not just wrong, you're mathematically wrong. Even the commando has to deal with having a slow, squishy, easy to scan suit to gain the ability to run an AV suit with a light weapon. AV is at a big disadvantage to normal infantry. Anyone who says they arent are insane. Anyone who says they are completely helpless is also insane. That's why its best to pair swarms with a scout suit, sneak around and get first mover advantage or a commando suit and switch to your other weapon I use a scout suit myself, commando tends to get shotgunned or you get bogged down in anti-infantry action and I forget what I am doing. Either way though you are at a disadvantage, since the commando suit is pretty bad in general and the scout suit without a light weapon is also in trouble against anyone with a light/heavy weapon.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2812	Posted - 2015.01.24 06:03:00 - [78] - Quote REMNANCY 1 wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: When i fight a good forge gunner, its heart pounding. I see that glow on the ground and instantly take evasive action. I drop elevation, twist to the side, pop my AB and rotate up and sideways to roll over his first shot. It misses, i get two seconds to apply some damage, then i punch straight up while leaning forward. He connects and my ship lists to one side. Doin a full barrel roll with the impact, i quickly drop towards the ground, shaking his third shot as i haul ass away. Over 300 meters out, still flying eradically, he manages to hit me, and i silently compliment his tremendous aim and tenacity. Swarms? I punch my AB and run full speed away, STILL getting hit. Forge gunners, thank you for remaining and reminding us all what it means to be skilled at AV Why does every weapon need to have high skill requirements? After all user friendliness is it's own balancing and variety aspect. Swarms are so easy a 5 year old can use them. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Yeeeuuuupppp Random Gunz 810	Posted - 2015.01.24 06:08:00 - [79] - Quote Sir Snugglz wrote: Bahirae Serugiusu wrote: I wish pilots would stop pulling words out of their butts to try and sound skilled. Before the swarms were buffed you just hovered around killing everything and if anyone hit you with anything you'd pop an afterburner and head to the top of the map and repeat. Last I checked derpships were still getting killed by RDVs, invisible walls/objects, null cannon missiles, MCC missiles, passive aggro blaster installations.... doesnt sound like hovering and killing everything. Passive aggro installations make me want to physically and emotionally harm children, especially missiles. Nothing more annoying than something that can't kill you but won't stop attacking you. Why can't installations be like the rails? Even when you're shooting the rail installations it's always like "Bro pls, you don't have to do this, bro nu" See you on the flip side brother PSN: GMANCASH Come on innnnn
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. 3199	Posted - 2015.01.24 06:08:00 - [80] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: I think the issue is sort of like scans. Either swarms get in hits or they dont. If they don't dropships will always escape death, if they do Swarms have an abnormally high likleyhood of landing a kill. There is no grey area where either swarmer skill or dropship pilot skill will be able to negate one another. With the lock on style we have, Pilots aren't fightig the swarmer, they are fighting against A.I missiles in flight, that do 90% of the work. Swarmers root for the missile, and when the AI wins, they feel like they won, and the pilot feels cheated. Even if pilots had flares, the swarmer would feel cheated because he could do everything right the AI still wont land a hit. We should try to come up with some middle ground so that swarmers and pilots have a fighting chance that is within thier control and not th A.I. instead of, frankly, snitching about swarms or that once upon a time where an XT1 landed on your head. Core Mechanics have got to be tweaked before this issue can be resolved. Or Just add a vehicle Module for "Flares" And scale the cool down with the tiers.... Add a feature in that tells the vehicle pilot they are being locked on by swarms.... Good to go... People are fine with getting hit... They just want a CHANCE to defend themselves and or their isk investment... They don't want one sided but a competitive chance on both sides... Where the swarm user has to actually fight off infantry or stay undetected to use the big noisy flashy gun that leaves you stranded and stuck with an inferrior suit and fitting... And vehicles with the chance of having an active module that they could use in unison with evasive maneuvers that gives them some consistency to defend themselves based around player skill and limitations of modules.

Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 1065	Posted - 2015.01.24 06:24:00 - [81] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: There's no such thing as 1v1 with a tank. A tank is spotted and engaged by at least 5 people at any one time, regardless of whether they have AV or not. Many will switch to AV because it's no hassle to do so. I laugh at the people who cry that they are "unarmed" when they use Swarms. (looks back through thread for a laugh or two) I use a Scrambler Pistol and Bolt Pistol on a regular basis. If you can actually aim, you can usually kill the people attacking you, because they have to follow you into your range. Ive never claimed that swarm users are unarmed, but if you think people fighting with sidearms are on an even level with people using light anti infantry weapons, you're not just wrong, you're mathematically wrong. Even the commando has to deal with having a slow, squishy, easy to scan suit to gain the ability to run an AV suit with a light weapon. AV is at a big disadvantage to normal infantry. Anyone who says they arent are insane. Anyone who says they are completely helpless is also insane. So you're saying that "normal" infantry are unable to aim? Cause 2-3 headshots and most suits are vaporware. I have a KDR of 1.0, so I'd assume people with higher KDR's would be more than capable of exceeding what I can do with these sidearms. Unless of course, that KDR is actually padding from using ADV and PRO gear (of which I don't use that often, if ever). They follow me, they usually die from my sidearm. Also, I've seen commandos absolutely vaporize people with a Combat Rifle in one hand, and a Swarm in the other. One guy practically held his entire team up.. :/ Not to mention he cleared out every vehicle that tried to enter the combat zone. Solo. http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU Dust to Dust Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.
jane stalin Ametat Security Amarr Empire 105	Posted - 2015.01.24 07:32:00 - [82] - Quote REMNANCY 1 wrote: [quote=Lazer Fo Cused] Sir that is clear nonsense mock the SL as you will for whatever perceived reason you believe but sl's do fail and in many ways the forge is just as easy to use. I have no problems hitting dropships with a swarm, Using the forge gun is very tricky.
Sigberct Amni Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 819	Posted - 2015.01.24 08:58:00 - [83] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: When i fight a good forge gunner, its heart pounding. I see that glow on the ground and instantly take evasive action. I drop elevation, twist to the side, pop my AB and rotate up and sideways to roll over his first shot. It misses, i get two seconds to apply some damage, then i punch straight up while leaning forward. He connects and my ship lists to one side. Doin a full barrel roll with the impact, i quickly drop towards the ground, shaking his third shot as i haul ass away. Over 300 meters out, still flying eradically, he manages to hit me, and i silently compliment his tremendous aim and tenacity. Swarms? I punch my AB and run full speed away, STILL getting hit. Forge gunners, thank you for remaining and reminding us all what it means to be skilled at AV stop flying dropships
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 766	Posted - 2015.01.24 09:43:00 - [84] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: I wish ADS pilots weren't whiny babies. But we can't all get what we want. I am sick of your attiude, since you are breaking the forum rules, reported. 5. Trolling is prohibited. Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote. 2. Be respectful toward others at all times. The purpose of the DUST 514 forums is to provide a platform for exchange of ideas, and a venue for the discussion of DUST 514. Occasionally there will be conflicts that arise when people voice opinions. Forum users are expected to be courteous when disagreeing with others. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
Mregomies Beer For Evil Mercs 324	Posted - 2015.01.24 09:49:00 - [85] - Quote but... If I take my ishukone AFG or IMP and swipe whole redteam vehicles+infantry you come here and whine about it also. with SL I can take only vehicles and I use it with ck.0 scout so I think that needs some skill to survive. Suomi, Finland, PERKELE! Logibro Logibro2
DUST Fiend Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 15647	Posted - 2015.01.24 12:56:00 - [86] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: I wish ADS pilots weren't whiny babies. But we can't all get what we want. I know youre incapable of putting forth a thought out argument, so please kindly go waste space somewhere else. Im sick of your childish trolling derailing my threads. If you want to be useless, do it in silence As to the guy above this post, ive just about never complained about forges, since they take skill to opperate efficiently My YouTube (currently inactive) Homeless Dropship Enthusiast "See You Space Cowboy"
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1901	Posted - 2015.01.24 13:28:00 - [87] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: I wish ADS pilots weren't whiny babies. But we can't all get what we want. I know youre incapable of putting forth a thought out argument the irony is strong here... you get what you seed out, karma strikes back... I have yet to see something else than whining from pilots.
DUST Fiend Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 15649	Posted - 2015.01.24 13:34:00 - [88] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: I wish ADS pilots weren't whiny babies. But we can't all get what we want. I know youre incapable of putting forth a thought out argument the irony is strong here... you get what you seed out, karma strikes back... I have yet to see something else than whining from pilots. Thats because all legiimate concerns fulter through your lite heads as whining. Its not our fault you cant grasp the concepts at hand My YouTube (currently inactive) Homeless Dropship Enthusiast "See You Space Cowboy"
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1901	Posted - 2015.01.24 13:47:00 - [89] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Jack McReady wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: I wish ADS pilots weren't whiny babies. But we can't all get what we want. I know youre incapable of putting forth a thought out argument the irony is strong here... you get what you seed out, karma strikes back... I have yet to see something else than whining from pilots. Thats because all legiimate concerns fulter through your lite heads as whining. Its not our fault you cant grasp the concepts at hand hey, you all heard it here first, whining is now a legit concern... ok bro, if you say so, please tell me more about your cool stories
Juno Tristan Obscure Reference 297	Posted - 2015.01.24 14:05:00 - [90] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: [about Jack McReady] Metaphors go over his head. NOTHING goes over my head!... My reflexes are too fast, I would catch it. I think we're at this level

Atiim Titans of Phoenix 15243	Posted - 2015.01.24 16:06:00 - [91] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: [Reported] Wow what a baby, can't even handle a simple insult. Not that it matters, the odds of Soraya getting banned are as much as CCP taking you guys seriously. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Aiwha Bait Demonic Cowboys 62	Posted - 2015.01.27 15:56:00 - [92] - Quote Juno Tristan wrote: Aiwha Bait wrote: Nah, I totally get that. It gets really annoying for us swarmmies who take one shot (barely make a dent on some proto ships) and then they fly straight up. Maybe you just need to fly around the map more. Try flying between buildings. shrugs flying around buildings doesn't do ***, the swarms will follow the exact path you did it's different to fighting tanks where swarms are relatively low to the ground and can more easily hit into hills/obtacles (apologies for the super late reply) Bullsht. If you fly around a building while my swarms are chasing you, the swarms will cut corners and hit the object you fly behind. "I went looking for trouble, and I found it." - Charles Ponzi
Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 651	Posted - 2015.01.27 16:15:00 - [93] - Quote 1. Experimental Swarm Launcher. +10% Damage, +1 Clip, +3 Ammo, -10% Reload Speed. - released on the 3rd of Feb 2. That kills the DS and anything else
Mobius Wyvern Sky-FIRE 5697	Posted - 2015.01.27 16:52:00 - [94] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: When i fight a good forge gunner, its heart pounding. I see that glow on the ground and instantly take evasive action. I drop elevation, twist to the side, pop my AB and rotate up and sideways to roll over his first shot. It misses, i get two seconds to apply some damage, then i punch straight up while leaning forward. He connects and my ship lists to one side. Doin a full barrel roll with the impact, i quickly drop towards the ground, shaking his third shot as i haul ass away. Over 300 meters out, still flying eradically, he manages to hit me, and i silently compliment his tremendous aim and tenacity. Swarms? I punch my AB and run full speed away, STILL getting hit. Forge gunners, thank you for remaining and reminding us all what it means to be skilled at AV At the very least, the lock speed and fire rate need to be reduced somewhat. Right now one person can put 3 volleys in the air in under 2 seconds. Given that the missiles commonly don't render or even make noise until after the first volley hits you, that means you're likely to be dead before you can escape. Right now the only way to survive is afterburners and having some kind of active regen. Also, lock-on warnings. NO other combined-arms game has vehicles with no lock-on warning. I support Keshava for Gallente Specialist HAV R.I.P. Kesha
Echo 1991 Titans of Phoenix VP Gaming Alliance 705	Posted - 2015.01.27 16:56:00 - [95] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: When i fight a good forge gunner, its heart pounding. I see that glow on the ground and instantly take evasive action. I drop elevation, twist to the side, pop my AB and rotate up and sideways to roll over his first shot. It misses, i get two seconds to apply some damage, then i punch straight up while leaning forward. He connects and my ship lists to one side. Doin a full barrel roll with the impact, i quickly drop towards the ground, shaking his third shot as i haul ass away. Over 300 meters out, still flying eradically, he manages to hit me, and i silently compliment his tremendous aim and tenacity. Swarms? I punch my AB and run full speed away, STILL getting hit. Forge gunners, thank you for remaining and reminding us all what it means to be skilled at AV At the very least, the lock speed and fire rate need to be reduced somewhat. Right now one person can put 3 volleys in the air in under 2 seconds. Given that the missiles commonly don't render or even make noise until after the first volley hits you, that means you're likely to be dead before you can escape. Right now the only way to survive is afterburners and having some kind of active regen. Also, lock-on warnings. NO other combined-arms game has vehicles with no lock-on warning. Lock time is 0.96. So 3 volleys is gonna take nearer 3 seconds. Also sound issues are a game problem, that doesn't mean the swarm is OP.
Copharus Arkana Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 33	Posted - 2015.01.27 17:01:00 - [96] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: When i fight a good forge gunner, its heart pounding. I see that glow on the ground and instantly take evasive action. I drop elevation, twist to the side, pop my AB and rotate up and sideways to roll over his first shot. It misses, i get two seconds to apply some damage, then i punch straight up while leaning forward. He connects and my ship lists to one side. Doin a full barrel roll with the impact, i quickly drop towards the ground, shaking his third shot as i haul ass away. Over 300 meters out, still flying eradically, he manages to hit me, and i silently compliment his tremendous aim and tenacity. Swarms? I punch my AB and run full speed away, STILL getting hit. Forge gunners, thank you for remaining and reminding us all what it means to be skilled at AV At the very least, the lock speed and fire rate need to be reduced somewhat. Right now one person can put 3 volleys in the air in under 2 seconds. Given that the missiles commonly don't render or even make noise until after the first volley hits you, that means you're likely to be dead before you can escape. Right now the only way to survive is afterburners and having some kind of active regen. Also, lock-on warnings. NO other combined-arms game has vehicles with no lock-on warning. Lock time is 0.96. So 3 volleys is gonna take nearer 3 seconds. Also sound issues are a game problem, that doesn't mean the swarm is OP. But that doesn't mean swarm is not OP. Are you that blind that you can't see its a crutch? I sware its like the AV community are related to heavys some how.
Mobius Wyvern Sky-FIRE 5699	Posted - 2015.01.27 17:03:00 - [97] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: When i fight a good forge gunner, its heart pounding. I see that glow on the ground and instantly take evasive action. I drop elevation, twist to the side, pop my AB and rotate up and sideways to roll over his first shot. It misses, i get two seconds to apply some damage, then i punch straight up while leaning forward. He connects and my ship lists to one side. Doin a full barrel roll with the impact, i quickly drop towards the ground, shaking his third shot as i haul ass away. Over 300 meters out, still flying eradically, he manages to hit me, and i silently compliment his tremendous aim and tenacity. Swarms? I punch my AB and run full speed away, STILL getting hit. Forge gunners, thank you for remaining and reminding us all what it means to be skilled at AV At the very least, the lock speed and fire rate need to be reduced somewhat. Right now one person can put 3 volleys in the air in under 2 seconds. Given that the missiles commonly don't render or even make noise until after the first volley hits you, that means you're likely to be dead before you can escape. Right now the only way to survive is afterburners and having some kind of active regen. Also, lock-on warnings. NO other combined-arms game has vehicles with no lock-on warning. Lock time is 0.96. So 3 volleys is gonna take nearer 3 seconds. Also sound issues are a game problem, that doesn't mean the swarm is OP. Skill into Assault Dropships and try to avoid dying to Swarms. I respeced my character almost entirely out of infantry and maxed out *every single skill* relating to Pythons and Small Missile Launchers. An investment of around 18 million skillpoints gives me the ability to *barely* survive 2 people with Swarm Launchers who only need to hold down R1 3 times, reload, and then do that again. I don't even get a warning when someone locks onto me, like you get in vehicles in EVERY SINGLE other combined-arms game on the ******* market. I support Keshava for Gallente Specialist HAV R.I.P. Kesha
Echo 1991 Titans of Phoenix VP Gaming Alliance 705	Posted - 2015.01.27 17:41:00 - [98] - Quote Copharus Arkana wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: When i fight a good forge gunner, its heart pounding. I see that glow on the ground and instantly take evasive action. I drop elevation, twist to the side, pop my AB and rotate up and sideways to roll over his first shot. It misses, i get two seconds to apply some damage, then i punch straight up while leaning forward. He connects and my ship lists to one side. Doin a full barrel roll with the impact, i quickly drop towards the ground, shaking his third shot as i haul ass away. Over 300 meters out, still flying eradically, he manages to hit me, and i silently compliment his tremendous aim and tenacity. Swarms? I punch my AB and run full speed away, STILL getting hit. Forge gunners, thank you for remaining and reminding us all what it means to be skilled at AV At the very least, the lock speed and fire rate need to be reduced somewhat. Right now one person can put 3 volleys in the air in under 2 seconds. Given that the missiles commonly don't render or even make noise until after the first volley hits you, that means you're likely to be dead before you can escape. Right now the only way to survive is afterburners and having some kind of active regen. Also, lock-on warnings. NO other combined-arms game has vehicles with no lock-on warning. Lock time is 0.96. So 3 volleys is gonna take nearer 3 seconds. Also sound issues are a game problem, that doesn't mean the swarm is OP. But that doesn't mean swarm is not OP. Are you that blind that you can't see its a crutch? I sware its like the AV community are related to heavys some how. OK then. Explain how its a crutch. I'm giving up a light weapon slot to only take on vehicles.
Echo 1991 Titans of Phoenix VP Gaming Alliance 705	Posted - 2015.01.27 17:45:00 - [99] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: When i fight a good forge gunner, its heart pounding. I see that glow on the ground and instantly take evasive action. I drop elevation, twist to the side, pop my AB and rotate up and sideways to roll over his first shot. It misses, i get two seconds to apply some damage, then i punch straight up while leaning forward. He connects and my ship lists to one side. Doin a full barrel roll with the impact, i quickly drop towards the ground, shaking his third shot as i haul ass away. Over 300 meters out, still flying eradically, he manages to hit me, and i silently compliment his tremendous aim and tenacity. Swarms? I punch my AB and run full speed away, STILL getting hit. Forge gunners, thank you for remaining and reminding us all what it means to be skilled at AV At the very least, the lock speed and fire rate need to be reduced somewhat. Right now one person can put 3 volleys in the air in under 2 seconds. Given that the missiles commonly don't render or even make noise until after the first volley hits you, that means you're likely to be dead before you can escape. Right now the only way to survive is afterburners and having some kind of active regen. Also, lock-on warnings. NO other combined-arms game has vehicles with no lock-on warning. Lock time is 0.96. So 3 volleys is gonna take nearer 3 seconds. Also sound issues are a game problem, that doesn't mean the swarm is OP. Skill into Assault Dropships and try to avoid dying to Swarms. I respeced my character almost entirely out of infantry and maxed out *every single skill* relating to Pythons and Small Missile Launchers. An investment of around 18 million skillpoints gives me the ability to *barely* survive 2 people with Swarm Launchers who only need to hold down R1 3 times, reload, and then do that again. I don't even get a warning when someone locks onto me, like you get in vehicles in EVERY SINGLE other combined-arms game on the ******* market. Are you really complaining that 2 people working together are killing you?
Copharus Arkana Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 33	Posted - 2015.01.27 19:20:00 - [100] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: Copharus Arkana wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: When i fight a good forge gunner, its heart pounding. I see that glow on the ground and instantly take evasive action. I drop elevation, twist to the side, pop my AB and rotate up and sideways to roll over his first shot. It misses, i get two seconds to apply some damage, then i punch straight up while leaning forward. He connects and my ship lists to one side. Doin a full barrel roll with the impact, i quickly drop towards the ground, shaking his third shot as i haul ass away. Over 300 meters out, still flying eradically, he manages to hit me, and i silently compliment his tremendous aim and tenacity. Swarms? I punch my AB and run full speed away, STILL getting hit. Forge gunners, thank you for remaining and reminding us all what it means to be skilled at AV At the very least, the lock speed and fire rate need to be reduced somewhat. Right now one person can put 3 volleys in the air in under 2 seconds. Given that the missiles commonly don't render or even make noise until after the first volley hits you, that means you're likely to be dead before you can escape. Right now the only way to survive is afterburners and having some kind of active regen. Also, lock-on warnings. NO other combined-arms game has vehicles with no lock-on warning. Lock time is 0.96. So 3 volleys is gonna take nearer 3 seconds. Also sound issues are a game problem, that doesn't mean the swarm is OP. But that doesn't mean swarm is not OP. Are you that blind that you can't see its a crutch? I sware its like the AV community are related to heavys some how. OK then. Explain how its a crutch. I'm giving up a light weapon slot to only take on vehicles. Its a crutch because no matter what, all you have to do is press R1, and your guaranteed to hit your target. You only have to look, then it dose the rest for you with no skill needed on your part. And unless you use a logi suit, your still perfectly capable of taking on other infantry. commandoes, thee dropsuit for AV has two light weapon slots. TWO. You shouldn't have any problem unless you stupidly fit two SL. And even if you using a medium or scout with only a side arm for infantry, you still have a weapon to defend yourself. People always use side arms as primary weapons with no problem. So you get no disadvantages, plus a weapon that guarantees the death of a vehicle, and you don't even need to aim to do it. That sounds like a pretty big crutch to me.

Aiwha Bait Demonic Cowboys 62	Posted - 2015.01.27 20:03:00 - [101] - Quote You arent guaranteed to hit anything, actually. All pilots have to do it turn a corner. "I went looking for trouble, and I found it." - Charles Ponzi
Echo 1991 Titans of Phoenix VP Gaming Alliance 706	Posted - 2015.01.28 09:18:00 - [102] - Quote Copharus Arkana wrote: Its a crutch because no matter what, all you have to do is press R1, and your guaranteed to hit your target. You only have to look, then it dose the rest for you with no skill needed on your part. And unless you use a logi suit, your still perfectly capable of taking on other infantry. commandoes, thee dropsuit for AV has two light weapon slots. TWO. You shouldn't have any problem unless you stupidly fit two SL. And even if you using a medium or scout with only a side arm for infantry, you still have a weapon to defend yourself. People always use side arms as primary weapons with no problem. So you get no disadvantages, plus a weapon that guarantees the death of a vehicle, and you don't even need to aim to do it. That sounds like a pretty big crutch to me. That's how I know you don't use swarms. Go ahead and see if a swarm guarantees the death of a vehicle.
Justicar Karnellia Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 906	Posted - 2015.01.28 10:13:00 - [103] - Quote Back in the days of the "God" HAV (1.7) I pumped all my skill points into my Forge guns as they were the only thing that could kill HAV's, and then if you were skilled and lucky and had a good line of sight, and if you weren't being shot by infantry, or tanks, and if the guy didn't recall his tank or activate his booster... anyway you get the picture. Now the effort required for a forge gun kill is disproportionate to a swarm kill. I find myself switching by default to a minmando swarm fit because it's just easier, you can defend yourself from infantry (with your second primary) , and it fires faster and doesn't require aiming. Although you have a heavy hit box in a minmando, you don't have heavy speed. I think the problem is we just need more AV weapons, starting with the other Heavy racial weapons. Then I think they can look at ths swarms again to find a happy medium until then my poor forge gun will just be gathering dust.. I do appreciate the problems you guys go through, I haven't yet started flying dropships but it doesn't sound like fun. :(
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1957	Posted - 2015.01.28 11:33:00 - [104] - Quote I am amused by the fact that some people claim you can fire 3 volleys in 3 seconds. everyone that used the swarm launcher once knows that is total BS also is just impossible to fire 3 volleys in 3 seconds due to the RAW stats of the swarm launcher (HINT: lock delay (not lock on time), burst delay, fire interval)
pumping up Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 113	Posted - 2015.01.28 11:34:00 - [105] - Quote Totally would love dumb fire swarms like in closed beta again :D Please help me on my quest to get the Recruiter C-II Dropsuit! https://dust514.com/recruit/S5kDan/ <3
Jack the Rlpper MONSTER SYNERGY 36	Posted - 2015.01.28 11:36:00 - [106] - Quote I stopped reading after the second page I feel both take skill but just standing there looking on in like 3 seconds and firing is kinda boring and is for those who have trouble with a forge gun and i myself have trouble with it so i have chosen in my respec to go full forge guns level 5 everything and use that because the thrill to charge it up and pray im not killed in that time seems more fun then swarms plus it hits harder which is nice for tank av and lai dia packed av nades for them pesky lavs
Echo 1991 Titans of Phoenix VP Gaming Alliance 706	Posted - 2015.01.28 12:24:00 - [107] - Quote Forge is harder to use, i wont ever say it isn't, however while swarms have a 400m travel range, it cannot fully utilize it unless it gets a lock within 175m. The forge could be at almost double the height of a tank compared to the swarmer and still score a hit, if a swarmer is in the same place as the forge he wont even get a lock. The swarm takes skill to be effective, (not to use) you have to get relatively close to ensure that all 3 volleys can be launched, Forge isnt guranteed to hit but has a larger area in which it can engage. The skill with forging is aiming whilst being quite far away. The skill with swarming isnt using the swarm itself but ensuring you can get close enough and not get killed whilst firing all three volleys.
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1960	Posted - 2015.01.28 14:21:00 - [108] - Quote ok, this thread amused me long enough. time to bust the bubbles of whiny scrubs, face your fate and git gud. with fire interval, burst interval, lock on delay (not lock on time which is also additionally to that) you will at best fire a volley per 2,55s and that is not accounting any UI delays we currently have. that is 489 base dps with proto swarms before reload and 326 base dps factoring in reload. need more evidence to bust your little small fantasy bubble? well here it is: STD swarms fired as fast as possible => https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEmCY4Qh0jk skip to 1:35 01:36:00 Start first lock 01:37:73 First lock complete 01:38:60 First swarm finishes firing 01:40:93 Second lock completes 01:41:63 Second swarm finishes firing 01:44:53 Third lock completes 01:45:47 Third swarm finishes firing in comparision: PLC has 0.5s fire interval additionally to charge up. with max reload skill and proto PLC that would be ~294 base dps. forge guns has 480 dps without reload and 365 dps with reload. it appears to have no fire interval at all, only charge up. all that anti swarm whining is just a pathetic farce. pilots are just that, littly whiny wimps. ninja edit PS: I wish pilots were skilled instead of whiny wimps.
Atiim Titans of Phoenix 15279	Posted - 2015.01.28 14:23:00 - [109] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: stuff Bookmarked <3 The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Xerth Frejer The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 7	Posted - 2015.01.28 14:49:00 - [110] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: [quote=Aiwha Bait] What you seem to be missing.is.that if.we.do ANYTHING other than fly straight up away from you...we die. Your chances of survival jump exponentially for every second that dropship isnt running away. You think its fun for us either? "Oh wow...sure is pretty up here, so glad im being 100% useless to my team right now. But hey, at least i can see this giant map and multiple sockets ill NEVER get to play on" Nevermind the fact that the first rule of piloting is: There is ALWAYS another AVer Now let me tell you a Story: Once upon a time (before the ADS firerate nerf) I stood on a hill with some other guys, all in heavy frames and armed with forge guns. We even had a logi. But there was a very good ADS Pilot in the enemy team, and he destroyed everyone and everything. And this one ADS won them the game. He was able to circlestrafe us as fast as we could turn, and the high angular velocity coupled with the ping delay (aka lag) made it almost imposible to hit him, while he was killing the logi first and then us with the splash damage from his front mounted missle launcher. When we managed to hit him several times in a row he just ignited his afterburner and flew away, to recharge his shields, repair his armor and/or reload. Even when I hit three shots in a row he continued to fly. And we were three forge gunners on that hill. If we had one or two swarms in that match, we may have won... The point is: Air Vehicles move so fast, that minimal ping/lag can cause a difference between the actual position of the Dropship, and what the AV'er may see. This causes an inconsistent lead-distance and makes hitting a fast vehicle nearly impossible. For example: A forgegun projectile (should) travel at 7000m/s (25200km/h) A Dropship traverses with 50m/s (180km/h) The Distance between DS and FG is 100m Then the lead distance should be: (Lead-distance = Dropship velocityforgegun projectle traveltime + Dropship velocityPing) 0.71m (with 0ms Ping) 1.21m (with 10ms Ping) 5.71m (with 100ms Ping) Swarms are necessary. For lowskill players, for high-ping players, for effectiv zoning. And they trade their ease of use with flexibility, since they are the only AV-only weapon. Heavys doing AV are also sitting ducks and an easy targets for Vehicles, while light AV weapons give the user the ability to evade incoming fire. Another important point you seem to ignore is that Pilots have the choice. They can control the engagement with superior speed, sustain and damage. Infantry can not hunt down a DS, they can only zone it away.

Twelve Guage Death Firm. 475	Posted - 2015.01.28 16:27:00 - [111] - Quote I posted this in another thread and is now re-posting it here. Twelve Guage wrote: After reading this reply I have to wonder if you have ever fired the SL before. I might be inclined to agree with all of the above if it was true but it is not. Is this what vehicle users think happen when people pull out SL? The SL is not a lock and forget weapon especially when everything and I do mean everything brakes your lock on. That is the ultimate troll with this weapon. There really is no negative to the vehicle users if they know what they're doing. EX#1: Vehicle user in tanks, unless super stupid will just drive behind any mid level hills / crates / building to get out of the way of swam shots. If that fails they hit their fuel injector and goes back to their red line to heal. Rinse and repeat for ultimate scrubness. EX#2: If a vehicle user is in a drop-ship, unless super stupid, only has to hit the up button to get out of range of any and all AV. In fact this is the number one thing I see most drop-ship divers doing. If they don't do that it's hit the fuel injector to fly to the other side of the map / into the red line until their healed. Rinse and repeat for ultimate scrubness. Vehicle user get no negative for doing things that most players can not. Now lets give infantry the ability to do that. It be would be great and very frustrating thing if the player could at the drop of a hat just move themselves 200 meters away from a tank / drop-ship when they are taking damage or under fire. The real problem vehicle users are having with the SL is that everyone uses it for their go to AV weapon not because it's easy but because every suit can run them. Don't believe me lets have all AV weapon unlocked for six months. So long as it is classified as Av it can be fitted into the light weapon slot. I guarantee you medium suites and light suites a like will run the forge gun more. Aim assist is the only weapon that needs to be removed from this game Lets focus on that first yes. Sandwich maker LVL. 5 You've been like by Twelve Gauge = her grabbing your @$$. My like button is back. C:<
Awesome Pantaloons Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 714	Posted - 2015.01.28 17:29:00 - [112] - Quote Bring back the dumbfire. Everyone will hate it, but everyone will LOVE it too. lol The vets miss the olden days. Seid ihr das essen? Nein! Wir sind der jager!
Twelve Guage Death Firm. 475	Posted - 2015.01.28 18:42:00 - [113] - Quote Awesome Pantaloons wrote: Bring back the dumbfire. Everyone will hate it, but everyone will LOVE it too. lol The vets miss the olden days. The whining would never stop then. Vehicle user don't really want skill to be involved in AV. What they want is an I win button. Even if dumbfire was brought back they would still say it requires no skill. Sandwich maker LVL. 5 You've been like by Twelve Gauge = her grabbing your @$$. My like button is back. C:<
Baal Omniscient Qualified Scrub 2138	Posted - 2015.01.28 18:43:00 - [114] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: ok, this thread amused me long enough. time to bust the bubbles of whiny scrubs, face your fate and git gud. with fire interval, burst interval, lock on delay (not lock on time which is also additionally to that) you will at best fire a volley per 2,55s and that is not accounting any UI delays we currently have. that is 489 base dps with proto swarms before reload and 326 base dps factoring in reload. need more evidence to bust your little small fantasy bubble? well here it is: STD swarms fired as fast as possible => https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEmCY4Qh0jk skip to 1:35 01:36:00 Start first lock 01:37:73 First lock complete 01:38:60 First swarm finishes firing 01:40:93 Second lock completes 01:41:63 Second swarm finishes firing 01:44:53 Third lock completes 01:45:47 Third swarm finishes firing in comparison: PLC has 0.5s fire interval additionally to charge up. with max reload skill and proto PLC that would be ~294 base dps. regular forge guns have 360 dps, the assault variant has even more. all that anti swarm whining is just a pathetic farce. pilots are just that, littly whiny wimps. ninja edit PS: I wish pilots were skilled instead of whiny wimps. I appreciate you putting my partner and I's swarm test video and data to good use, but a mention or reference would be nice. Copharus Arkana wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: OK then. Explain how its a crutch. I'm giving up a light weapon slot to only take on vehicles. Its a crutch because no matter what, all you have to do is press R1, and your guaranteed to hit your target. You only have to look, then it dose the rest for you with no skill needed on your part. And unless you use a logi suit, your still perfectly capable of taking on other infantry. commandoes, thee dropsuit for AV has two light weapon slots. TWO. You shouldn't have any problem unless you stupidly fit two SL. And even if you using a medium or scout with only a side arm for infantry, you still have a weapon to defend yourself. People always use side arms as primary weapons with no problem. So you get no disadvantages, plus a weapon that guarantees the death of a vehicle, and you don't even need to aim to do it. That sounds like a pretty big crutch to me. I don't even have the patience to lay out how uninformed this post is. Suffice to say, swarms can be easily outrun and blocked by using cover and their AI isn't.... well lets just say it's about on par with you and leave it at that. Echo 1991 wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: Skill into Assault Dropships and try to avoid dying to Swarms. I respeced my character almost entirely out of infantry and maxed out *every single skill* relating to Pythons and Small Missile Launchers. An investment of around 18 million skillpoints gives me the ability to *barely* survive 2 people with Swarm Launchers who only need to hold down R1 3 times, reload, and then do that again. I don't even get a warning when someone locks onto me, like you get in vehicles in EVERY SINGLE other combined-arms game on the ******* market. Are you really complaining that 2 people working together are killing you? No, he's complaining that two people working together are ALMOST able to kill him. That's somewhat worse however.... Edit: Though to be fair, I do think there should be a sound warning when a swarm's reticle passes over a vehicle. Winmatar Assault, Proficiency 5 SMG's & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0 I GÖú Puppies (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.*pâ+n+ín+ƒ.
Jammer Jalapeno BIG BAD W0LVES 167	Posted - 2015.01.28 19:26:00 - [115] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: When i fight a good forge gunner, its heart pounding. I see that glow on the ground and instantly take evasive action. I drop elevation, twist to the side, pop my AB and rotate up and sideways to roll over his first shot. It misses, i get two seconds to apply some damage, then i punch straight up while leaning forward. He connects and my ship lists to one side. Doin a full barrel roll with the impact, i quickly drop towards the ground, shaking his third shot as i haul ass away. Over 300 meters out, still flying eradically, he manages to hit me, and i silently compliment his tremendous aim and tenacity. Swarms? I punch my AB and run full speed away, STILL getting hit. Forge gunners, thank you for remaining and reminding us all what it means to be skilled at AV You know I really have to agree with you on this one.....i've been a dedicated AVer since beta and I have to say all these people with swarms are becoming quite the nuisance. Taking down a beefy tank or ADS should be a challenge......perhaps even a coordinated effort. I feel for you dudes. MmMmMm TanKs....delicious TanKs
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1983	Posted - 2015.01.28 19:45:00 - [116] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: I appreciate you putting my partner and I's swarm test video and data to good use, but a mention or reference would be nice. Jack McReady scrub busting post is sponsored by Baal Omniscient
Reign Omega T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K General Tso's Alliance 1157	Posted - 2015.01.28 21:19:00 - [117] - Quote Jammer Jalapeno wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: When i fight a good forge gunner, its heart pounding. I see that glow on the ground and instantly take evasive action. I drop elevation, twist to the side, pop my AB and rotate up and sideways to roll over his first shot. It misses, i get two seconds to apply some damage, then i punch straight up while leaning forward. He connects and my ship lists to one side. Doin a full barrel roll with the impact, i quickly drop towards the ground, shaking his third shot as i haul ass away. Over 300 meters out, still flying eradically, he manages to hit me, and i silently compliment his tremendous aim and tenacity. Swarms? I punch my AB and run full speed away, STILL getting hit. Forge gunners, thank you for remaining and reminding us all what it means to be skilled at AV You know I really have to agree with you on this one.....i've been a dedicated AVer since beta and I have to say all these people with swarms are becoming quite the nuisance. Taking down a beefy tank or ADS should be a challenge......perhaps even a coordinated effort. I feel for you dudes. Even though in beta and shortly after we could post up on a proper roof with swarms and deny a huge chunk of the map for a whole game because of how powerful swarms were? 400 meter 6 missiles 6 round clip damage modded terror.. Mark a$$ tricks, and bags of dicks....
Baal Omniscient Qualified Scrub 2142	Posted - 2015.01.28 22:57:00 - [118] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: When i fight a good forge gunner, its heart pounding. I see that glow on the ground and instantly take evasive action. I drop elevation, twist to the side, pop my AB and rotate up and sideways to roll over his first shot. It misses, i get two seconds to apply some damage, then i punch straight up while leaning forward. He connects and my ship lists to one side. Doin a full barrel roll with the impact, i quickly drop towards the ground, shaking his third shot as i haul ass away. Over 300 meters out, still flying eradically, he manages to hit me, and i silently compliment his tremendous aim and tenacity. Swarms? I punch my AB and run full speed away, STILL getting hit. Forge gunners, thank you for remaining and reminding us all what it means to be skilled at AV Don't worry, I still love you no matter how much hate you throw at my occupation Princess. <3 Winmatar Assault, Proficiency 5 SMG's & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0 I GÖú Puppies (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.*pâ+n+ín+ƒ.
TEBOW BAGGINS GREATNESS ACHIEVED THRU TROLLING 1584	Posted - 2015.01.28 23:02:00 - [119] - Quote Reign Omega wrote: Jammer Jalapeno wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: When i fight a good forge gunner, its heart pounding. I see that glow on the ground and instantly take evasive action. I drop elevation, twist to the side, pop my AB and rotate up and sideways to roll over his first shot. It misses, i get two seconds to apply some damage, then i punch straight up while leaning forward. He connects and my ship lists to one side. Doin a full barrel roll with the impact, i quickly drop towards the ground, shaking his third shot as i haul ass away. Over 300 meters out, still flying eradically, he manages to hit me, and i silently compliment his tremendous aim and tenacity. Swarms? I punch my AB and run full speed away, STILL getting hit. Forge gunners, thank you for remaining and reminding us all what it means to be skilled at AV You know I really have to agree with you on this one.....i've been a dedicated AVer since beta and I have to say all these people with swarms are becoming quite the nuisance. Taking down a beefy tank or ADS should be a challenge......perhaps even a coordinated effort. I feel for you dudes. Even though in beta and shortly after we could post up on a proper roof with swarms and deny a huge chunk of the map for a whole game because of how powerful swarms were? 400 meter 6 missiles 6 round clip damage modded terror.. but for whatever reason those swarms were coded to collide with buildings the new swarms usually bypass any obstacle either thru clipping or they will cluster at the obstacle before surging towards target again. AKA Zirzo Valcyn AFKing since 2012
DUST Fiend Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 15662	Posted - 2015.02.01 16:19:00 - [120] - Quote Xerth Frejer wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: [quote=Aiwha Bait] What you seem to be missing.is.that if.we.do ANYTHING other than fly straight up away from you...we die. Your chances of survival jump exponentially for every second that dropship isnt running away. You think its fun for us either? "Oh wow...sure is pretty up here, so glad im being 100% useless to my team right now. But hey, at least i can see this giant map and multiple sockets ill NEVER get to play on" Nevermind the fact that the first rule of piloting is: There is ALWAYS another AVer Now let me tell you a Story: Once upon a time (before the ADS firerate nerf) I stood on a hill with some other guys, all in heavy frames and armed with forge guns. We even had a logi. But there was a very good ADS Pilot in the enemy team, and he destroyed everyone and everything. And this one ADS won them the game. He was able to circlestrafe us as fast as we could turn, and the high angular velocity coupled with the ping delay (aka lag) made it almost imposible to hit him, while he was killing the logi first and then us with the splash damage from his front mounted missle launcher. When we managed to hit him several times in a row he just ignited his afterburner and flew away, to recharge his shields, repair his armor and/or reload. Even when I hit three shots in a row he continued to fly. And we were three forge gunners on that hill. If we had one or two swarms in that match, we may have won... The point is: Air Vehicles move so fast, that minimal ping/lag can cause a difference between the actual position of the Dropship, and what the AV'er may see. This causes an inconsistent lead-distance and makes hitting a fast vehicle nearly impossible. For example: A forgegun projectile (should) travel at 7000m/s (25200km/h) A Dropship traverses with 50m/s (180km/h) The Distance between DS and FG is 100m Then the lead distance should be: (Lead-distance = Dropship velocityforgegun projectle traveltime + Dropship velocityPing) 0.71m (with 0ms Ping) 1.21m (with 10ms Ping) 5.71m (with 100ms Ping) Swarms are necessary. For lowskill players, for high-ping players, for effectiv zoning. And they trade their ease of use with flexibility, since they are the only AV-only weapon. Heavys doing AV are also sitting ducks and an easy targets for Vehicles, while light AV weapons give the user the ability to evade incoming fire. Another important point you seem to ignore is that Pilots have the choice. They can control the engagement with superior speed, sustain and damage. Infantry can not hunt down a DS, they can only zone it away. Infantry cant hunt vehicles? You dont LAV much, do you? My YouTube (currently inactive) Homeless Dropship Enthusiast "See You Space Cowboy"



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