[Reported]

flying around buildings doesn't do ****, the swarms will follow the exact path you did

it's different to fighting tanks where swarms are relatively low to the ground and can more easily hit into hills/obtacles

When i fight a good forge gunner, its heart pounding. I see that glow on the ground and instantly take evasive action. I drop elevation, twist to the side, pop my AB and rotate up and sideways to roll over his first shot. It misses, i get two seconds to apply some damage, then i punch straight up while leaning forward. He connects and my ship lists to one side. Doin a full barrel roll with the impact, i quickly drop towards the ground, shaking his third shot as i haul ass away. Over 300 meters out, still flying eradically, he manages to hit me, and i silently compliment his tremendous aim and tenacity.

Swarms? I punch my AB and run full speed away, STILL getting hit.

Forge gunners, thank you for remaining and reminding us all what it means to be skilled at AV

At the very least, the lock speed and fire rate need to be reduced somewhat. Right now one person can put 3 volleys in the air in under 2 seconds. Given that the missiles commonly don't render or even make noise until after the first volley hits you, that means you're likely to be dead before you can escape. Right now the only way to survive is afterburners and having some kind of active regen.

Also, lock-on warnings. NO other combined-arms game has vehicles with no lock-on warning.

Lock time is 0.96. So 3 volleys is gonna take nearer 3 seconds. Also sound issues are a game problem, that doesn't mean the swarm is OP.

Lock time is 0.96. So 3 volleys is gonna take nearer 3 seconds. Also sound issues are a game problem, that doesn't mean the swarm is OP.

But that doesn't mean swarm is not OP. Are you that blind that you can't see its a crutch? I sware its like the AV community are related to heavys some how.

Skill into Assault Dropships and try to avoid dying to Swarms.

I respeced my character almost entirely out of infantry and maxed out every single skill relating to Pythons and Small Missile Launchers.

An investment of around 18 million skillpoints gives me the ability to barely survive 2 people with Swarm Launchers who only need to hold down R1 3 times, reload, and then do that again.

I don't even get a warning when someone locks onto me, like you get in vehicles in EVERY SINGLE other combined-arms game on the ******* market.

OK then. Explain how its a crutch. I'm giving up a light weapon slot to only take on vehicles.

Its a crutch because no matter what, all you have to do is press R1, and your guaranteed to hit your target. You only have to look, then it dose the rest for you with no skill needed on your part. And unless you use a logi suit, your still perfectly capable of taking on other infantry. commandoes, thee dropsuit for AV has two light weapon slots. TWO. You shouldn't have any problem unless you stupidly fit two SL. And even if you using a medium or scout with only a side arm for infantry, you still have a weapon to defend yourself. People always use side arms as primary weapons with no problem. So you get no disadvantages, plus a weapon that guarantees the death of a vehicle, and you don't even need to aim to do it. That sounds like a pretty big crutch to me.

stuff

[quote=Aiwha Bait]
What you seem to be missing.is.that if.we.do ANYTHING other than fly straight up away from you...we die. Your chances of survival jump exponentially for every second that dropship isnt running away. You think its fun for us either? "Oh wow...sure is pretty up here, so glad im being 100% useless to my team right now. But hey, at least i can see this giant map and multiple sockets ill NEVER get to play on"

Nevermind the fact that the first rule of piloting is:

There is ALWAYS another AVer

After reading this reply I have to wonder if you have ever fired the SL before.
I might be inclined to agree with all of the above if it was true but
it is not. Is this what vehicle users think happen when people pull out SL?
The SL is not a lock and forget weapon especially when everything and I do mean
everything brakes your lock on. That is the ultimate troll with this weapon.

There really is no negative to the vehicle users if they know what they're doing.
EX#1: Vehicle user in tanks, unless super stupid will just drive behind any mid level
hills / crates / building to get out of the way of swam shots. If that fails they hit their
fuel injector and goes back to their red line to heal. Rinse and repeat for ultimate
scrubness.

EX#2: If a vehicle user is in a drop-ship, unless super stupid, only has to hit the up
button to get out of range of any and all AV. In fact this is the number one thing
I see most drop-ship divers doing. If they don't do that it's hit the fuel injector to fly
to the other side of the map / into the red line until their healed. Rinse and repeat
for ultimate scrubness. Vehicle user get no negative for doing things
that most players can not.

Now lets give infantry the ability to do that. It be would be
great and very frustrating thing if the player could at the drop of a hat just move
themselves 200 meters away from a tank / drop-ship when they are taking damage
or under fire.

The real problem vehicle users are having with the SL is that everyone uses
it for their go to AV weapon not because it's easy but because every suit can
run them. Don't believe me lets have all AV weapon unlocked for six months.
So long as it is classified as Av it can be fitted into the light weapon slot. I guarantee
you medium suites and light suites a like will run the forge gun more.

Bring back the dumbfire. Everyone will hate it, but everyone will LOVE it too. lol The vets miss the olden days.

ok, this thread amused me long enough. time to bust the bubbles of whiny scrubs, face your fate and git gud.

with fire interval, burst interval, lock on delay (not lock on time which is also additionally to that) you will at best fire a volley per 2,55s and that is not accounting any UI delays we currently have. that is 489 base dps with proto swarms before reload and 326 base dps factoring in reload.

need more evidence to bust your little small fantasy bubble? well here it is:

STD swarms fired as fast as possible => https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEmCY4Qh0jk

skip to 1:35
01:36:00 Start first lock
01:37:73 First lock complete
01:38:60 First swarm finishes firing

01:40:93 Second lock completes
01:41:63 Second swarm finishes firing

01:44:53 Third lock completes
01:45:47 Third swarm finishes firing

in comparison:
PLC has 0.5s fire interval additionally to charge up. with max reload skill and proto PLC that would be ~294 base dps.

regular forge guns have 360 dps, the assault variant has even more.

all that anti swarm whining is just a pathetic farce. pilots are just that, littly whiny wimps.

*ninja edit*
PS: I wish pilots were skilled instead of whiny wimps.

Its a crutch because no matter what, all you have to do is press R1, and your guaranteed to hit your target. You only have to look, then it dose the rest for you with no skill needed on your part. And unless you use a logi suit, your still perfectly capable of taking on other infantry. commandoes, thee dropsuit for AV has two light weapon slots. TWO. You shouldn't have any problem unless you stupidly fit two SL. And even if you using a medium or scout with only a side arm for infantry, you still have a weapon to defend yourself. People always use side arms as primary weapons with no problem. So you get no disadvantages, plus a weapon that guarantees the death of a vehicle, and you don't even need to aim to do it. That sounds like a pretty big crutch to me.

Are you really complaining that 2 people working together are killing you?

When i fight a good forge gunner, its heart pounding. I see that glow on the ground and instantly take evasive action. I drop elevation, twist to the side, pop my AB and rotate up and sideways to roll over his first shot. It misses, i get two seconds to apply some damage, then i punch straight up while leaning forward. He connects and my ship lists to one side. Doin a full barrel roll with the impact, i quickly drop towards the ground, shaking his third shot as i haul ass away. Over 300 meters out, still flying eradically, he manages to hit me, and i silently compliment his tremendous aim and tenacity.

Swarms? I punch my AB and run full speed away, STILL getting hit.

Forge gunners, thank you for remaining and reminding us all what it means to be skilled at AV

I appreciate you putting my partner and I's swarm test video and data to good use, but a mention or reference would be nice.

You know I really have to agree with you on this one.....i've been a dedicated AVer since beta and I have to say all these people with swarms are becoming quite the nuisance.

Taking down a beefy tank or ADS should be a challenge......perhaps even a coordinated effort. I feel for you dudes.

When i fight a good forge gunner, its heart pounding. I see that glow on the ground and instantly take evasive action. I drop elevation, twist to the side, pop my AB and rotate up and sideways to roll over his first shot. It misses, i get two seconds to apply some damage, then i punch straight up while leaning forward. He connects and my ship lists to one side. Doin a full barrel roll with the impact, i quickly drop towards the ground, shaking his third shot as i haul ass away. Over 300 meters out, still flying eradically, he manages to hit me, and i silently compliment his tremendous aim and tenacity.

Swarms? I punch my AB and run full speed away, STILL getting hit.

Forge gunners, thank you for remaining and reminding us all what it means to be skilled at AV

Even though in beta and shortly after we could post up on a proper roof with swarms and deny a huge chunk of the map for a whole game because of how powerful swarms were? 400 meter 6 missiles 6 round clip damage modded terror..

Now let me tell you a Story:

Once upon a time (before the ADS firerate nerf) I stood on a hill with some other guys, all in heavy frames and armed with forge guns. We even had a logi.
But there was a very good ADS Pilot in the enemy team, and he destroyed everyone and everything.
And this one ADS won them the game.
He was able to circlestrafe us as fast as we could turn, and the high angular velocity coupled with the ping delay (aka lag) made it almost imposible to hit him, while he was killing the logi first and then us with the splash damage from his front mounted missle launcher.
When we managed to hit him several times in a row he just ignited his afterburner and flew away, to recharge his shields, repair his armor and/or reload. Even when I hit three shots in a row he continued to fly. And we were three forge gunners on that hill.
If we had one or two swarms in that match, we may have won...

The point is:
Air Vehicles move so fast, that minimal ping/lag can cause a difference between the actual position of the Dropship, and what the AV'er may see. This causes an inconsistent lead-distance and makes hitting a fast vehicle nearly impossible.
For example:
A forgegun projectile (should) travel at 7000m/s (25200km/h)
A Dropship traverses with 50m/s (180km/h)
The Distance between DS and FG is 100m
Then the lead distance should be:
(Lead-distance = Dropship velocity*forgegun projectle traveltime + Dropship velocity*Ping)
0.71m (with 0ms Ping)
1.21m (with 10ms Ping)
5.71m (with 100ms Ping)

Swarms are necessary. For lowskill players, for high-ping players, for effectiv zoning. And they trade their ease of use with flexibility, since they are the only AV-only weapon. Heavys doing AV are also sitting ducks and an easy targets for Vehicles, while light AV weapons give the user the ability to evade incoming fire.
Another important point you seem to ignore is that Pilots have the choice. They can control the engagement with superior speed, sustain and damage. Infantry can not hunt down a DS, they can only zone it away.