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Vesta Opalus
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
General Tso's Alliance
328
   |
Posted - 2015.01.23 18:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:When i fight a good forge gunner, its heart pounding. I see that glow on the ground and instantly take evasive action. I drop elevation, twist to the side, pop my AB and rotate up and sideways to roll over his first shot. It misses, i get two seconds to apply some damage, then i punch straight up while leaning forward. He connects and my ship lists to one side. Doin a full barrel roll with the impact, i quickly drop towards the ground, shaking his third shot as i haul ass away. Over 300 meters out, still flying eradically, he manages to hit me, and i silently compliment his tremendous aim and tenacity.
Swarms? I punch my AB and run full speed away, STILL getting hit.
Forge gunners, thank you for remaining and reminding us all what it means to be skilled at AV
While I probably disagree with the majority of vehicle cunts about swarms being overpowered (they arent), I do agree that fighting with and against swarms is boring and not very skill based for either party. I'd love to see this weapon reworked so that it wasnt just a fire and forget deterrent. |
Vesta Opalus
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
General Tso's Alliance
328
|
Posted - 2015.01.23 18:37:00 -
[2] - Quote
Echo 1991 wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:When i fight a good forge gunner, its heart pounding. I see that glow on the ground and instantly take evasive action. I drop elevation, twist to the side, pop my AB and rotate up and sideways to roll over his first shot. It misses, i get two seconds to apply some damage, then i punch straight up while leaning forward. He connects and my ship lists to one side. Doin a full barrel roll with the impact, i quickly drop towards the ground, shaking his third shot as i haul ass away. Over 300 meters out, still flying eradically, he manages to hit me, and i silently compliment his tremendous aim and tenacity.
Swarms? I punch my AB and run full speed away, STILL getting hit.
Forge gunners, thank you for remaining and reminding us all what it means to be skilled at AV While I probably disagree with the majority of vehicle cunts about swarms being overpowered (they arent), I do agree that fighting with and against swarms is boring and not very skill based for either party. I'd love to see this weapon reworked so that it wasnt just a fire and forget deterrent. AV is designed to blow vehicles up not scare them.
Im going to have to disagree with you there. AV in dust was specifically and deliberately designed not to blow up vehicles unless they were piloted by idiots.
You never saw all the discussions about AV being an area denial tool or a deterrent?
Or the windows of opportunity crap that basically gives vehicles a way to ignore AV to a much greater extent whenever their cooldowns are up?
In Dust 514, AV is not designed to kill vehicles. I wish this was not the case, because I think its stupid and it makes running AV suicidal and annoying as ****, but it is true. |
Vesta Opalus
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
General Tso's Alliance
328
|
Posted - 2015.01.23 18:39:00 -
[3] - Quote
Copharus Arkana wrote:I think its funny how people defend the SL. Anyone can look at it crooked and see that no skill is needed to use it. The fact that people defend it just shows who the real scrubs are.
Because most vehicle players only look at the direct interaction between their vehicle and the swarm launcher.
What these people fail to realize is that running an AV fit is both ineffective (it is unlikely your swarms will kill the dropship if the dropship pilot is paying attention) and also that ALL THE TIME WHEN THE AV PLAYER IS NOT USING HIS SWARMS ON YOU IS TAKEN UP WITH HIM FRANTICALLY AVOIDING AND SCRAMBLING AWAY FROM INFANTRY THAT ARE CONSTANTLY TRYING TO KILL HIM.
It takes virtually no skill to use a swarm launcher, it takes a great deal of skill to use a swarm launcher fitting. |
Vesta Opalus
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
General Tso's Alliance
328
|
Posted - 2015.01.23 18:45:00 -
[4] - Quote
Jack McReady wrote:rail turret tanks wreck dropships far quicker and with less chance of escaping. getting into rail tank is cheaper and requires less sp than a fully decked out proto swarm fit too. for some reason you never hear these people whining about swarms whine about that too. 
Mmm hmm. I wonder why. I guess it will always remain a mystery.
P.S. did you just read the post I made on this other thread, god damn I even thought you were replying to it  |
Vesta Opalus
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
General Tso's Alliance
332
|
Posted - 2015.01.23 19:38:00 -
[5] - Quote
Operative 1174 Uuali wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:Copharus Arkana wrote:I think its funny how people defend the SL. Anyone can look at it crooked and see that no skill is needed to use it. The fact that people defend it just shows who the real scrubs are. Because most vehicle players only look at the direct interaction between their vehicle and the swarm launcher. What these people fail to realize is that running an AV fit is both ineffective (it is unlikely your swarms will kill the dropship if the dropship pilot is paying attention) and also that ALL THE TIME WHEN THE AV PLAYER IS NOT USING HIS SWARMS ON YOU IS TAKEN UP WITH HIM FRANTICALLY AVOIDING AND SCRAMBLING AWAY FROM INFANTRY THAT ARE CONSTANTLY TRYING TO KILL HIM. It takes virtually no skill to use a swarm launcher, it takes a great deal of skill to use a swarm launcher fitting. Every time I catch a swarmer sitting back on a structure sipping beer the whole time. No one is messing with them. That should be the basis for weapon balance. Trading weapon for safety is necessary for playing the game. No one is any different than you are. I go scout I give tank, I go assault I give up stealth, I go ADS I give up being able to dodge in and out of cover with a smaller hit box. Cry me a river. Keep swarms as is and then let there sig light up when they fire on my ADS so I can have a fair chance at shooting them as they do me and then we'll talk about balance.
If hes sitting back on a structure sipping beer hes an easy target, and if you cant solo a swarmer then the swarms arent the problem. If the situation is that his team is completely stomping yours and giving him the leisure to just sit there and wait for you, then the swarms again arent the problem.
I love how ADS pilots pretend that running a swarm fit is just some WP farming picnic experience because they saw some guy alone one time. If I was in that game on your team that guy would be murdered within half a minute, just because your blueberries were **** doesnt mean running swarms is always equivalent to skipping through the meadows with your girlfriend.
And P.S. I agree that ADS needs a lock on warning, better rendering of swarms at distance, etc. Or better yet a complete reworking of swarm launchers so they are more fun for both sides. But seriously **** off with the running swarm launchers takes no skill bull. |
Vesta Opalus
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
General Tso's Alliance
336
|
Posted - 2015.01.23 21:20:00 -
[6] - Quote
Stupid Blueberry wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:Operative 1174 Uuali wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:Copharus Arkana wrote:I think its funny how people defend the SL. Anyone can look at it crooked and see that no skill is needed to use it. The fact that people defend it just shows who the real scrubs are. Because most vehicle players only look at the direct interaction between their vehicle and the swarm launcher. What these people fail to realize is that running an AV fit is both ineffective (it is unlikely your swarms will kill the dropship if the dropship pilot is paying attention) and also that ALL THE TIME WHEN THE AV PLAYER IS NOT USING HIS SWARMS ON YOU IS TAKEN UP WITH HIM FRANTICALLY AVOIDING AND SCRAMBLING AWAY FROM INFANTRY THAT ARE CONSTANTLY TRYING TO KILL HIM. It takes virtually no skill to use a swarm launcher, it takes a great deal of skill to use a swarm launcher fitting. Every time I catch a swarmer sitting back on a structure sipping beer the whole time. No one is messing with them. That should be the basis for weapon balance. Trading weapon for safety is necessary for playing the game. No one is any different than you are. I go scout I give tank, I go assault I give up stealth, I go ADS I give up being able to dodge in and out of cover with a smaller hit box. Cry me a river. Keep swarms as is and then let there sig light up when they fire on my ADS so I can have a fair chance at shooting them as they do me and then we'll talk about balance. If hes sitting back on a structure sipping beer hes an easy target, and if you cant solo a swarmer then the swarms arent the problem. If the situation is that his team is completely stomping yours and giving him the leisure to just sit there and wait for you, then the swarms again arent the problem. I love how ADS pilots pretend that running a swarm fit is just some WP farming picnic experience because they saw some guy alone one time. If I was in that game on your team that guy would be murdered within half a minute, just because your blueberries were **** doesnt mean running swarms is always equivalent to skipping through the meadows with your girlfriend.And P.S. I agree that ADS needs a lock on warning, better rendering of swarms at distance, etc. Or better yet a complete reworking of swarm launchers so they are more fun for both sides. But seriously **** off with the running swarm launchers takes no skill bull. It is, though. I literally have an AV alt that I hop on whenever I'm hurting for money. You guys seriously need to stop pretending "but I only have a sidearm" because the only swarmers that aren't minmandos are usually gallogis that are sitting on top of a roof scanning and swarming the occasional vehicle.
You hurt for money in this game? lol.
I prefer scouts for AV because I have more freedom of movement and can escape scans and am more evasive in general. Im not sure why you think minmandos are used by everyone using swarms, but since every post you make seems to try to pigeonhole all AV into some magical stress free WP farming masterrace that cant be harmed, I dont see why Im even paying attention to you in the first place.
I played my vehicle alt all day yesterday, and we saw a grand total of one minmando using swarms the whole day. Also we killed him 5 times or so before he managed to kill a single one of my dropships. Yeah swarms sure are OP. So amazing how even on the suit that is the best possible fitting they can go 1k/5d vs. vehicles which they are built specifically to counter, and he only killed me because he went double swarm launcher and I didnt feel like afterburning away. Saw many more forge gunners, logi swarmers, and free fit militia swarmers than minmandos, but yeah Ill totally believe your blank assertion that all swarmers use minmandos even though my experience on both sides of the equation are 100% disproof of that. |
Vesta Opalus
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
General Tso's Alliance
336
|
Posted - 2015.01.23 21:28:00 -
[7] - Quote
Stupid Blueberry wrote:Sure, YOUR experience gets full credit while mine gets none, even though I am on both sides of the argument every single day. Seriously, soloing 3 Incubi back to back to back is not ok. And the argument isn't really about the minmando, its about the commando. All fo you swarmers like to bring up the "fact" that you only have a sidearm to defend yourself when in reality most only use a commando and even then, the bolt pistol is still a thing.
When you say something that is blatantly and obviously untrue, dont be surprised when your opinion gets completely discounted.
But have fun killing those incubuses back to back and pretending that your experiences killing one absolutely ******** pilot represents the sum total of dust 514 game balance. |
Vesta Opalus
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
General Tso's Alliance
338
|
Posted - 2015.01.23 22:23:00 -
[8] - Quote
Stupid Blueberry wrote:You can say that it's "blatantly untrue" all you want. You're just trying to protect your wp farm. And yeah, they were **** pilots, but putting out that much dps in such a short amount of time from a weapon that was designed to be a deterrent is completely unreasonable. (To clarify, this wasn't one pilot who kept calling in Icububi, this was three guys circling over me trying to kill me at one time)
If it was such an incredible fringe case that three pilots that are that terrible all died to one swarmer in quick succession without killing him, then why even bother to mention it? Do you believe that that is actually representative of a typical AV/V interaction?
And WP farm? Thats a joke. If I want to WP farm Ill do it in a logi suit and spam equipment/rep tool, like god intended. Who even gives a **** about WPs anyway? Aside from orbitals they get you nothing.
You are being a stereotype of a shitheaded vehicle player: you assume every AV player is running optimized minmando or logi fits, never being killed by infantry, only there to farm WP, asserting that dropships are so weak that its reasonable to expect that you can solo three incubuses at one time with a single AV player.
How unreasonable do you have to get to realize that you are being insane and actually think about what you type before you type it?
I want these things to be balanced against each other and fun to use on both sides. I dont see how anything you've said in this thread helps to inform balance decisions in any way and it all sounds like a bunch of one sided bullshit. |
Vesta Opalus
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
General Tso's Alliance
339
|
Posted - 2015.01.24 01:30:00 -
[9] - Quote
Juno Tristan wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:Copharus Arkana wrote:I think its funny how people defend the SL. Anyone can look at it crooked and see that no skill is needed to use it. The fact that people defend it just shows who the real scrubs are. Because most vehicle players only look at the direct interaction between their vehicle and the swarm launcher. What these people fail to realize is that running an AV fit is both ineffective (it is unlikely your swarms will kill the dropship if the dropship pilot is paying attention) and also that ALL THE TIME WHEN THE AV PLAYER IS NOT USING HIS SWARMS ON YOU IS TAKEN UP WITH HIM FRANTICALLY AVOIDING AND SCRAMBLING AWAY FROM INFANTRY THAT ARE CONSTANTLY TRYING TO KILL HIM. It takes virtually no skill to use a swarm launcher, it takes a great deal of skill to use a swarm launcher fitting. In this scenario you've gone from 1 vehicle v 1 swarmer to 1 vehicle + 15 infantry v 1 swarmer what are the other 15 guys doing on your team?
Hopefully something useful so that the swarm fit guy can use them to help him out. I didnt say the swarmers blueberries were doing nothing, but if you think active blueberries can save you from getting ganked by random enemies then Im not sure if you're playing the same game as me. |
Vesta Opalus
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
General Tso's Alliance
340
|
Posted - 2015.01.24 03:06:00 -
[10] - Quote
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:
There's no such thing as 1v1 with a tank.
A tank is spotted and engaged by at least 5 people at any one time, regardless of whether they have AV or not.
Many will switch to AV because it's no hassle to do so.
I laugh at the people who cry that they are "unarmed" when they use Swarms. (looks back through thread for a laugh or two)
I use a Scrambler Pistol and Bolt Pistol on a regular basis. If you can actually aim, you can usually kill the people attacking you, because they have to follow you into your range.
Ive never claimed that swarm users are unarmed, but if you think people fighting with sidearms are on an even level with people using light anti infantry weapons, you're not just wrong, you're mathematically wrong.
Even the commando has to deal with having a slow, squishy, easy to scan suit to gain the ability to run an AV suit with a light weapon.
AV is at a big disadvantage to normal infantry.
Anyone who says they arent are insane.
Anyone who says they are completely helpless is also insane. |
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Vesta Opalus
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
General Tso's Alliance
342
|
Posted - 2015.01.24 05:10:00 -
[11] - Quote
Juno Tristan wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:
There's no such thing as 1v1 with a tank.
A tank is spotted and engaged by at least 5 people at any one time, regardless of whether they have AV or not.
Many will switch to AV because it's no hassle to do so.
I laugh at the people who cry that they are "unarmed" when they use Swarms. (looks back through thread for a laugh or two)
I use a Scrambler Pistol and Bolt Pistol on a regular basis. If you can actually aim, you can usually kill the people attacking you, because they have to follow you into your range.
Ive never claimed that swarm users are unarmed, but if you think people fighting with sidearms are on an even level with people using light anti infantry weapons, you're not just wrong, you're mathematically wrong. Even the commando has to deal with having a slow, squishy, easy to scan suit to gain the ability to run an AV suit with a light weapon. AV is at a big disadvantage to normal infantry. Anyone who says they arent are insane. Anyone who says they are completely helpless is also insane. That's why its best to pair swarms with a scout suit, sneak around and get first mover advantage or a commando suit and switch to your other weapon
I use a scout suit myself, commando tends to get shotgunned or you get bogged down in anti-infantry action and I forget what I am doing.
Either way though you are at a disadvantage, since the commando suit is pretty bad in general and the scout suit without a light weapon is also in trouble against anyone with a light/heavy weapon. |
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