First, cite your sources on this statement. Second, if it is true, they are blueberries who will most likely quit in their first 30 days of playing. People who stick around for the long haul find companionship in the form of corpmates and channels to squad with.

Please provide a screen capture of a scout dropsuit that gives a passive bonus to equipment other than a cloaking device. Scouts can fit ONE piece of equipment in addition to a cloak and they do not receive the dropsuit command bonuses for whatever they fit. Scouts also lack the CPU/PG reduction bonus, meaning they cannot field higher tiered equipment as easily.

I don't need to site a source on that claim I only need to play the game. In PC (an extreme minority) games are completely squad based. In FW there is an increase in squads, but its still a toss up. It is undeniable in public contracts that the majority are solo players and even if they weren't a squad wouldn't protect them from squads of Protostompers which is likely a large factor in them quitting. IF they quit.

"Please provide a screen capture of a scout dropsuit that gives a passive bonus to equipment other than a cloaking device."
Oh man this is a gem. "Provide a screen capture of a scout getting a bonus to equipment other than the piece of equipment I say!"

And scouts AREN'T required to use a cloak. The two equipment slots are available for any equipment they want.

Still no data or source to back up what you are saying then? Just purely anecdotal "evidence". Understood.

Because the scout's bonus with a cloak doesn't support his team in the same way a logi's bonus with uplinks, nanohives, repair tools, or active scanners does. It mostly helps the scout himself survive when crossing wide breaks in cover or flank unsuspecting hostiles. While the cloak is active the scout's scan radius actually drops, removing any shared passive squad scans.

Sure, logis get bonuses with equipment and scouts technically do to, but it's not comparing apples to apples and you know it, homie

Yes, but the scout's bandwidth is purposefully gimped so they can't fit two deployable equipment. He also doesn't recieve a single bonus with the deployable equipment he carries.

I'll also say again, if a scout wants to drop higher tier equipment he is going to eat through his CPU/PG. This won't leave nearly as much resource left to tank or fit decent weapons. In short, he's sacrificing much for the ability to carry two pieces of equipment that he doesn't even get passive bonuses for.

You seriously disagree that solo players make up the majority of public contracts? I never declared it to be evidence it is clearly stated as an experience.

I know its not apples to apples, but you said it yourself "logis get bonuses with equipment and scouts technically do to" you cannot say that scouts do not get a bonus to equipment.
Yet someone who is a scout can drop uplinks and equip a rep tool (perform two roles at the same time) and that is apparently ok when a scout does it.

A logi cannot run high tier equipment and expect to tank effectively either. Or equip decent weapons.

I have no data to make a statement one way or another. I don't interview every blueberry post-patch to see if they were in a squad or not. I simply don't know and neither do you.

I know its not apples to apples, but you said it yourself "logis get bonuses with equipment and scouts technically do to" you cannot say that scouts do not get a bonus to equipment.
Yet someone who is a scout can drop uplinks and equip a rep tool (perform two roles at the same time) and that is apparently ok when a scout does it.

A logi cannot run high tier equipment and expect to tank effectively either. Or equip decent weapons.

I have no data to make a statement one way or another. I don't interview every blueberry post-patch to see if they were in a squad or not. I simply don't know and neither do you.

A scout can fit a repair tool but he is going to suck in a big way. An assault can fit a nanohive, but those hives will never perform as well as those dropped by a Caldari logi.


Caldari logi I threw together vs. Caldari scout I threw together

Logi: 625.7 eHP, 6 total hives functioning with more nanites and higher resupply/repair rate plus an advanced needle for when the hives run out. Enough bandwidth to deploy 5 hives at once.

Scout: 582.2 eHP, 6 total hives with no bonuses, no needle for when the hives pop. Enough bandwidth to deploy 2 hives at once...

Scout walk/strafe: 5.43m/s
Logi walk/strafe: 4.61m/s

So you are saying that scouts are as good as being a logi because of... 0.82m/s walk/strafe speeds and an advanced weapon?

"It just stops you from WP whoring via playing multiple roles at one time"

This statement is complete BS and needs to die.

Assaults and scouts running rep tools are performing multiple roles at the same time.

Assaults and scouts running uplinks are performing multiple roles at the same time.

Assaults and scouts running nanite injectors are performing multiple roles at the same time.

Assaults and scouts running swarms (or plasma cannon), AV grenades, and a non AV side arm are performing multiple roles at the same time.

No other suit than the logistics suit gets their role penalized so harshly for adapting to the battlefield.

Your butthurt over bandwidth is noted.

But more to the point, if you consider using a non-AV sidearm as playing another role, you obviously don't understand roles. Roles are specialized.

Logistics have bonuses to specific pieces equipment, and reduction in CPU/PG on their equipment. They can equip a primary weapon and grenade, but does that make the logistic's role to kill people? Not at all. It is a secondary ability that is less effective than suits that are specialized for it.

Same goes for equipment on assaults/scouts. It isn't as effective as logistics, takes up more of your CPU/PG so you have to sacrifice more for it, and you don't get as many pieces of equipment at one time. It's all secondary to assault/scout roles.

So to make my point clear, no, assaults and scouts with equipment are not performing multiple roles at once.

How are they sacrificing cpu/pg when they drop there equipment then switch to a scanner/repair/injector or no equipment fitting while the uplinks/hives dropped before keep working? They are getting the benefits of the equipment without the cpu/pg sacrifice.
Logi can do the same thing. start in full uplink/hive/proximity fitting and drop all equipment then switch to a 2x scanners/repair/injector fitting and have tons of equipment on the field while not having to sacrifice nothing with the benefits of 4 different equipment. Its not just a assault and scout getting benefits of eq after switching.

Yes, logis are ten fold more touristy than any other role now. They just wanted exclusive rights to WP w horing.

Bandwidth doesn't get in my way of switching roles. If I play as a logi and set a bunch of uplinks, I can switch to an assault when I feel my team is doing alright enough, and still keep 2 of those uplinks active (an assault can support 2 uplinks). Often the value of the equipment deployed is outweighed by the value of the role you're switching to, so don't worry so much about losing some equipment, and just switch roles if you really feel you need to.

As much as it pains me, this is pretty much true.

When soloing (and sometimes when in squad) I am often required to play A LOT of the spontaneously-needed roles, and at such points in battle, I have to lose the majority of my uplinks in order to take down another threat to my team's success.

Sometimes this can hinder my team's ability to stay in the fight, until I can complete my task and switch back to my logi to replace my uplinks.

This has now stopped me from running links in anything other than DOM (where it is truly a game-deciding role).
Nowadays I pray before each match that someone else takes on the link-reinforcement role so I don't have to worry about bandwidth the whole match, whereas I used to pray that I was the only one doing links so I could farm them WP, lol.

I am still undecided about the whole bandwidth system but, as with all other changes, I just try to adapt as best I can.

Your butthurt over bandwidth is noted.

But more to the point, if you consider using a non-AV sidearm as playing another role, you obviously don't understand roles. Roles are specialized.

Logistics have bonuses to specific pieces equipment, and reduction in CPU/PG on their equipment. They can equip a primary weapon and grenade, but does that make the logistic's role to kill people? Not at all. It is a secondary ability that is less effective than suits that are specialized for it.

Same goes for equipment on assaults/scouts. It isn't as effective as logistics, takes up more of your CPU/PG so you have to sacrifice more for it, and you don't get as many pieces of equipment at one time. It's all secondary to assault/scout roles.

So to make my point clear, no, assaults and scouts with equipment are not performing multiple roles at once.

If Assaaults and Scouts who deploy equipment are not playing two roles simultaneously, then explain the argument how BW is to prevent people from doing two roles simultaneously. You can't have it both ways and use which ever argument suits you.

If Assaaults and Scouts who deploy equipment are not playing two roles simultaneously, then explain the argument how BW is to prevent people from doing two roles simultaneously. You can't have it both ways and use which ever argument suits you.

I think you are looking at this wrong, I'm still using the same argument.

Bandwidth is to stop people from going to logistics, spamming a very large amount of equipment that only a logi could be capable of spamming, and then switching to another class that has better killing potential and still keeping all of that equipment. BW has fixed this, now they only get to keep a small portion of that equipment, depending on the suit they chose.

Assaults and scouts get less equipment and less bandwidth, and as I mentioned, have to sacrifice more CPU/PG than a logi, and ultimately have less effective equipment. An assault deploying two uplinks is not a role, it's a secondary benefit. A logi deploying uplinks, nanohives, and running around with a nanite injector and rep tool IS a role.

Granted, as people have mentioned, they could deploy their assault, put down uplinks in it, then switch to the same assault with active equipment instead of deployable, thereby cheating the system, HOWEVER, they are cheating the system on a much smaller scale than when they could have 10 nanohives and 10 uplinks on the field and still run around in an HMG heavy tearing people up and whoring the WPs on a huge scale.

I never said BW was perfect, but it is definitely helping to quell the WP farmers.

People are fighting over bits and pieces of WP. The entire display is rather despicable.

We could make it that when you activate your cloak your BW goes to zero. :D :D :p

If I am running 2 scanners how many slots does my scout have left for a cloak? Come on IWS don't look it up answer from the top of your head. You been CPM for what 2 years you should know how many EQ slots a scout has. Head starting to hurt yet?
After you get done looking that up tell me how would making my BW go to 0 hurt me if and when I am running 1 scanner and a cloak. Do you need to look that up too?
:D :D

Let me summarize here. You're unhappy that you don't get team WP for scans, right? That seems to be the recurring theme in your posts. That's quite valid and understandable. I agree, you should get WP for team assists. Probably not 15, but 5 is totally reasonable.

So here's the thing... Why is this in any way related to BW? Where is the relationship? I don't really see one. Why not just push for a more equitable distribution of WP for other contributions rather than rail against the unrelated mechanic of BW and the red headed stepchildren of dust, the post-1.7 logi?


And good lord I have to lol at the people who somehow think it's even remotely problematic that you can switch to a different LOGI suit and still keep your EQ but use needles and reps or whatever. Common sense would like to have a word with you if your brain tells you that this is a) at all different than before or b) somehow unfair that EQ based suits can use EQ in a more effective manner than others.. That's just idiotic.

...Or you are unable to get past your prior ability to wh0re WP in your vastly more viable scout or sentinel suit while I hemorrhaged ISK in my logI suits trying vainly to perform a dying role.

So I wasnt referring to you personally about wh0ring WP since I already read you run scans and it doesn't take a genius to figure out you're a scout from your corp tag alone. Chill, I'm being less antagonistic than it seems... Towards you at least.

Anyway, since by your own admission this is better than before, what's the major problem here? Iteration is always good, you can always tweak from this point.
Also, if it's better, it had to have fixed something. In this case the "playstyle" or "skill" of crapping out 9 uplinks to steal my WP (yes, MY f*cking WP as an Amarr logi) and then switching to an HMG sentinel has died the can't-be-horrible-enough-for-its-crimes-against-humanity death it so richly deserved. That's a huge positive step for this game.

As for the other part, it's late and admittedly I'm not totally sure what you're getting at... But if I do understand correctly I've always felt that locking someone only to EQ that's actively on your suit is too restrctive in their current state.

That said, as a general rule I wouldn't argue against limiting EQ functionality on non logi suits to reduce spam so that's something to consider/debate.