Bandwidth is not forcing you to stay one role.

It is simply asking you to give up advantages of one role for another when you do swap just like any other role in existence.

You can't keep the sentinels HP

You can't keep the scout's movement

You can't keep the assault's well roundedness

You can't keep the commando's versatility

when you swap roles.

You are still an assault though. Even with the equipment deployed and proto weapon, you are an assault. Your role is the same.

A scout will never be as good at supporting their team with equipment as a logi. This isn't a debate. The speed might help in certain situations, but it does not trump the increased effectiveness logis receive with their tools of the trade.

Logis need more eHP to increase their survivability a tad. That is mostly unrelated to the topic but needs to be said.

Your butthurt over bandwidth is noted.

But more to the point, if you consider using a non-AV sidearm as playing another role, you obviously don't understand roles. Roles are specialized.

Logistics have bonuses to specific pieces equipment, and reduction in CPU/PG on their equipment. They can equip a primary weapon and grenade, but does that make the logistic's role to kill people? Not at all. It is a secondary ability that is less effective than suits that are specialized for it.

Same goes for equipment on assaults/scouts. It isn't as effective as logistics, takes up more of your CPU/PG so you have to sacrifice more for it, and you don't get as many pieces of equipment at one time. It's all secondary to assault/scout roles.

So to make my point clear, no, assaults and scouts with equipment are not performing multiple roles at once.

Yes, logis are ten fold more touristy than any other role now. They just wanted exclusive rights to WP w horing.

As much as it pains me, this is pretty much true.

When soloing (and sometimes when in squad) I am often required to play A LOT of the spontaneously-needed roles, and at such points in battle, I have to lose the majority of my uplinks in order to take down another threat to my team's success.

Sometimes this can hinder my team's ability to stay in the fight, until I can complete my task and switch back to my logi to replace my uplinks.

This has now stopped me from running links in anything other than DOM (where it is truly a game-deciding role).
Nowadays I pray before each match that someone else takes on the link-reinforcement role so I don't have to worry about bandwidth the whole match, whereas I used to pray that I was the only one doing links so I could farm them WP, lol.

I am still undecided about the whole bandwidth system but, as with all other changes, I just try to adapt as best I can.

If Assaaults and Scouts who deploy equipment are not playing two roles simultaneously, then explain the argument how BW is to prevent people from doing two roles simultaneously. You can't have it both ways and use which ever argument suits you.

I think you are looking at this wrong, I'm still using the same argument.

Bandwidth is to stop people from going to logistics, spamming a very large amount of equipment that only a logi could be capable of spamming, and then switching to another class that has better killing potential and still keeping all of that equipment. BW has fixed this, now they only get to keep a small portion of that equipment, depending on the suit they chose.

Assaults and scouts get less equipment and less bandwidth, and as I mentioned, have to sacrifice more CPU/PG than a logi, and ultimately have less effective equipment. An assault deploying two uplinks is not a role, it's a secondary benefit. A logi deploying uplinks, nanohives, and running around with a nanite injector and rep tool IS a role.

Granted, as people have mentioned, they could deploy their assault, put down uplinks in it, then switch to the same assault with active equipment instead of deployable, thereby cheating the system, HOWEVER, they are cheating the system on a much smaller scale than when they could have 10 nanohives and 10 uplinks on the field and still run around in an HMG heavy tearing people up and whoring the WPs on a huge scale.

I never said BW was perfect, but it is definitely helping to quell the WP farmers.

We could make it that when you activate your cloak your BW goes to zero. :D :D :p

Let me summarize here. You're unhappy that you don't get team WP for scans, right? That seems to be the recurring theme in your posts. That's quite valid and understandable. I agree, you should get WP for team assists. Probably not 15, but 5 is totally reasonable.

So here's the thing... Why is this in any way related to BW? Where is the relationship? I don't really see one. Why not just push for a more equitable distribution of WP for other contributions rather than rail against the unrelated mechanic of BW and the red headed stepchildren of dust, the post-1.7 logi?


And good lord I have to lol at the people who somehow think it's even remotely problematic that you can switch to a different LOGI suit and still keep your EQ but use needles and reps or whatever. Common sense would like to have a word with you if your brain tells you that this is a) at all different than before or b) somehow unfair that EQ based suits can use EQ in a more effective manner than others.. That's just idiotic.

...Or you are unable to get past your prior ability to wh0re WP in your vastly more viable scout or sentinel suit while I hemorrhaged ISK in my logI suits trying vainly to perform a dying role.

So I wasnt referring to you personally about wh0ring WP since I already read you run scans and it doesn't take a genius to figure out you're a scout from your corp tag alone. Chill, I'm being less antagonistic than it seems... Towards you at least.

Anyway, since by your own admission this is better than before, what's the major problem here? Iteration is always good, you can always tweak from this point.
Also, if it's better, it had to have fixed something. In this case the "playstyle" or "skill" of crapping out 9 uplinks to steal my WP (yes, MY f*cking WP as an Amarr logi) and then switching to an HMG sentinel has died the can't-be-horrible-enough-for-its-crimes-against-humanity death it so richly deserved. That's a huge positive step for this game.

As for the other part, it's late and admittedly I'm not totally sure what you're getting at... But if I do understand correctly I've always felt that locking someone only to EQ that's actively on your suit is too restrctive in their current state.

That said, as a general rule I wouldn't argue against limiting EQ functionality on non logi suits to reduce spam so that's something to consider/debate.

For the record, I don't think that is cheating at all. That's just smart. I do the exact same thing in my logi suit once I have reached my bandwidth threshold. It's a totally legit thing to do as it adheres to the limitations placed upon us by the bandwidth system.

Let's not mistake ingenuity with foul play.

I'm not sure what you're getting at.

Logistics
noun

definition: the detailed coordination of a complex operation involving many people, facilities, or supplies.

military usage: the organization of moving, housing, and supplying troops and equipment.

Bandwidth is allowing logis to truly be the masters of the supply line and quantity matters just as much quality. If you're a true logi, you should be thrilled by this and thriving in your intended role.

I shall do "slayer fit logi"

"What ho good sir, I have just dropped all of my hives and will now swap to my tanked fit with cheap equipment and help you push the objective!"

*enemy comes around the corner, sees bright yellow and opens fire. Bullets are exchanged, but alas, the logi fails to have the mobility or firepower of the enemy Assault and dies.*

"Must have been a fluke! Here we go again!"

*fatty belly flops on him*

"will..." *primaried, respawns.*

"you..." *primaried, respawns.*

"Bastards." *primaried, respawns.*

"Quit" *primaried, respawns.*

"Shooting..." *primaried, respawns.*

"Me..." *primaried, respawns.*

First..." *primaried, respawns.*

yeah. flashy yellow suits. Slayer fit logis are a HUGE worry as you can see with their lower tank than assaults.

There is advanced deployment and ongoing support. They are both necessary.

Advanced deployment happens less now because role-switchers are doing less of it. As a Logi, it made me all "jelly" to see a speed scout race in ahead and drop links and hives, then switch to a Sentinel for the rest of the battle. That job, I thought, was what a dedicated Logi should be doing and getting "credit" for. It just so happened that folks who did this also tended to spam those links and hives when they could get to a supply depot because they didn't take the role seriously and took advantage of every "feature" of the system. Perhaps only 25% of what they deployed was team-useful. Bandwidth threw this 25% out with the spam. Perhaps more Logi's will enter the game and make up the difference, but I certainly see less advance-deployed equipment now than before. I used to NEVER see a map that didn't have at least one uplink to fall back on. Now it happens, and the rare dedicated Logi is sore pressed to make up the difference when it does.

The ongoing support duty you describe is also essential to the team, and my favorite aspect of being a squad-support Logi. But it is very difficult to do given the harsh limits on # carried (not deployable) of equipment. There are several threads which suggest increasing this, particularly for Logi suits or skills. I think that needs to happen. It was suggested that a Logi revamp would happen right after Bandwidth, and would include something along those lines. Still waiting...

You are still going on with the bandwidth whining? Adapt.

In reality, bandwidth requires a team to have good role composition now. You can't have a super slayer player also pull double duty as a logi by flinging a dozen uplinks everywhere at the beginning of a match. With bandwidth in place the team needs that super slayer AND an accompanying player running logi to fling those uplinks, repair tool, etc.

The best way to ensure this is to join a squad OH NO I SAID THE "S" WORD!

In a squad, you and your squadmates can talk pre-match.

"I'll pack uplinks and so will Steve."
"I'm going to run scout with a scanner this time."
"Good. I'm going assault with needles."

You have done the pre-planning necessary to ensure the team has what it needs to earn a victory.

But solo players, they just derp around trying to guess what the team needs when half of the blueberries probably don't even speak your native language.

I love listening to real logis so easy to separate them from the tourists.

Also BW system was originally designed by the Dust 514 1.0 beta team on paper. Was not implemented until just recently. CPM only encouraged the logic and reasoning to develop it based on community woes the largest of which was that Logistic players were not being appreciated.

BW system is likely to never go away but instead evolve and adapt to newer equipment designs and game play methods from drones, more powerful deployables and interesting play and counterplay.

Imagine having BW expansion modules? BW jammers? 'Super powers' that come at the cost of shutting everything else off? Possibilities are limitless when BW becomes a conscious and up and forward subject similar to the ammo in your current gun's magazine