DUST Search - Play Only One Role == Boring

Z3dog wrote:

Logi Bro wrote:

Wow, this thread.

Bandwidth doesn't stop you from changing your roles, it just stops you from WP whoring via playing multiple roles at one time. You are welcome to change to assault at any time during the match, but you have to be assault if you are going to be assault, not assault plus all of the equipment you laid down as logistics, ya dig?

"It just stops you from WP whoring via playing multiple roles at one time"

This statement is complete BS and needs to die.

Assaults and scouts running rep tools are performing multiple roles at the same time.

Assaults and scouts running uplinks are performing multiple roles at the same time.

Assaults and scouts running nanite injectors are performing multiple roles at the same time.

Assaults and scouts running swarms (or plasma cannon), AV grenades, and a non AV side arm are performing multiple roles at the same time.

No other suit than the logistics suit gets their role penalized so harshly for adapting to the battlefield.


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Logi Bro Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 3393	Posted - 2014.12.29 17:58:00 - [1] - Quote Wow, this thread. Bandwidth doesn't stop you from changing your roles, it just stops you from WP whoring via playing multiple roles at one time. You are welcome to change to assault at any time during the match, but you have to be assault if you are going to be assault, not assault plus all of the equipment you laid down as logistics, ya dig? SP Sinks? Fixed.
Logi Bro Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 3394	Posted - 2014.12.30 04:09:00 - [2] - Quote Z3dog wrote: Logi Bro wrote: Wow, this thread. Bandwidth doesn't stop you from changing your roles, it just stops you from WP whoring via playing multiple roles at one time. You are welcome to change to assault at any time during the match, but you have to be assault if you are going to be assault, not assault plus all of the equipment you laid down as logistics, ya dig? "It just stops you from WP whoring via playing multiple roles at one time" This statement is complete BS and needs to die. Assaults and scouts running rep tools are performing multiple roles at the same time. Assaults and scouts running uplinks are performing multiple roles at the same time. Assaults and scouts running nanite injectors are performing multiple roles at the same time. Assaults and scouts running swarms (or plasma cannon), AV grenades, and a non AV side arm are performing multiple roles at the same time. No other suit than the logistics suit gets their role penalized so harshly for adapting to the battlefield. Your butthurt over bandwidth is noted. But more to the point, if you consider using a non-AV sidearm as playing another role, you obviously don't understand roles. Roles are specialized. Logistics have bonuses to specific pieces equipment, and reduction in CPU/PG on their equipment. They can equip a primary weapon and grenade, but does that make the logistic's role to kill people? Not at all. It is a secondary ability that is less effective than suits that are specialized for it. Same goes for equipment on assaults/scouts. It isn't as effective as logistics, takes up more of your CPU/PG so you have to sacrifice more for it, and you don't get as many pieces of equipment at one time. It's all secondary to assault/scout roles. So to make my point clear, no, assaults and scouts with equipment are not performing multiple roles at once. SP Sinks? Fixed.
Logi Bro Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 3395	Posted - 2014.12.30 15:15:00 - [3] - Quote Nothing Certain wrote: If Assaaults and Scouts who deploy equipment are not playing two roles simultaneously, then explain the argument how BW is to prevent people from doing two roles simultaneously. You can't have it both ways and use which ever argument suits you. I think you are looking at this wrong, I'm still using the same argument. Bandwidth is to stop people from going to logistics, spamming a very large amount of equipment that only a logi could be capable of spamming, and then switching to another class that has better killing potential and still keeping all of that equipment. BW has fixed this, now they only get to keep a small portion of that equipment, depending on the suit they chose. Assaults and scouts get less equipment and less bandwidth, and as I mentioned, have to sacrifice more CPU/PG than a logi, and ultimately have less effective equipment. An assault deploying two uplinks is not a role, it's a secondary benefit. A logi deploying uplinks, nanohives, and running around with a nanite injector and rep tool IS a role. Granted, as people have mentioned, they could deploy their assault, put down uplinks in it, then switch to the same assault with active equipment instead of deployable, thereby cheating the system, HOWEVER, they are cheating the system on a much smaller scale than when they could have 10 nanohives and 10 uplinks on the field and still run around in an HMG heavy tearing people up and whoring the WPs on a huge scale. I never said BW was perfect, but it is definitely helping to quell the WP farmers. SP Sinks? Fixed.
Logi Bro Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 3398	Posted - 2014.12.31 14:26:00 - [4] - Quote SirManBoy wrote: voidfaction wrote: Spam away everyone. The team with the most spammed equipment on the field while its not on their present fitting wins should be a game mode. I'm not sure what you're getting at. Logistics noun definition: the detailed coordination of a complex operation involving many people, facilities, or supplies. military usage: the organization of moving, housing, and supplying troops and equipment. Bandwidth is allowing logis to truly be the masters of the supply line and quantity matters just as much quality. If you're a true logi, you should be thrilled by this and thriving in your intended role. I have to disagree with you on this. If you are a true logi, you always carry your nanohives with you, to better expedite ammo to team-mates in need. You always carry your uplinks with you so you can create a new spawn point as the battlefield changes and enemy positions change. Spamming as much equipment as BW lets you then changing to pure active equipment is not, "a true logi." Deployable equipment isn't about having as many as you can on the field, it's about placing them is appropriate locations at appropriate times, and you are doing neither if you place it all at once in relative close proximity to each other. This is, simply put, the mentality of a WP farmer. SP Sinks? Fixed.
Logi Bro Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 3398	Posted - 2014.12.31 20:20:00 - [5] - Quote SirManBoy wrote: But seriously, you play your way and I'll play my way. My squads appreciate what I do--having numerous well placed proto uplinks placed on the field at all times, non-stop dual proto scanners, proto repping, frequent orbital strikes, etc.--and that's all the proof I need to support and justify my play style. No offense intended. Thing is, the way you play vs the way I play is irrelevant. The topic of discussion when you quoted me for the first time was cheating BW by changing to all active equipment, and it is cheating. Allow me to explain. Ask yourself this. What was it that BW was implemented for? To stop someone from playing multiple roles by deploying large sums of equipment as a logi and then changing to a slayer? To stop equipment spam? To buff logi's? I'd say all of the above. Now, obviously CCP was the one who put BW in the game, and continuing along that thought, that means CCP does not condone playing multiple roles at once, and continuing even farther with that thought, then if you are playing multiple roles at once, then you are cheating the game, since it conflicts with the game designer's intentions. Logical, right? So, with the tactic you described, what are you doing if not playing multiple roles at once? At most, a logi will hold 4 equipment. If you use a logi with 4 equipment for your tactic, then you have 8 equipment at once. Therefore, you are playing the role of two logi's at one time. And with the previous paragraph's conclusion, that means it is cheating. Undoubtedly your team likes your playstyle, how is that any justification to have it in the game? I liked my team-mates' playstyles when they spammed tanks in the days of god-tanks, did that justify god-tanks? No, it just means I liked it because I won the game with them on my team. Just like I hated it when they were on the enemy team. SP Sinks? Fixed.
Logi Bro Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 3399	Posted - 2014.12.31 21:07:00 - [6] - Quote Clone D wrote: Logi Bro wrote: [...] then you are cheating the game, since it conflicts with the game designer's intentions. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wxi-IUnCN_8 If CCP intended for the game to work in a particular way, then they should have put controls in place to ensure that the game works that way. There is no cheating; only what a man can do and what a man can't do. You would think so, wouldn't you? And yet we had the ability to recover all of our health by switching our fits at a supply depot for years, and CCP only just recently fixed it. God-tanks. Grenade spam. Slayer logi's. Swarm launchers that locked on to people. All were things that you were able to do, but CCP made changes to the game to prevent you from doing them, since you either weren't supposed to do it, or you were doing it too well. In a game like this, where updates and constant and never-ending, there are most certainly cheats and exploits. As another example: I don't play EvE, but I believe I have heard that you can be permanently banned from the game for evading Concord, since you aren't meant to be able to do it. SP Sinks? Fixed.
Logi Bro Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 3399	Posted - 2014.12.31 21:11:00 - [7] - Quote SirManBoy wrote: Clone D wrote: Logi Bro wrote: [...] then you are cheating the game, since it conflicts with the game designer's intentions. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wxi-IUnCN_8 If CCP intended for the game to work in a particular way, then they should have put controls in place to ensure that the game works that way. There is no cheating; only what a man can do and what a man can't do. You are a gentleman and a scholar. SP Sinks? Fixed.
Logi Bro Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 3399	Posted - 2014.12.31 22:41:00 - [8] - Quote SirManBoy wrote: You know what's interesting about my position on the CPM? I sometimes get a bit of insight into the game designer's intentions. Would you like me to specifically address why everything you just said is baseless conjecture, or would you prefer to take my word for it? Ah heck, here's a short, fact-based rebuttal, whether you like it or not: BW was designed to literally define the amount of deployable equipment you can place on the field at any one time based on your class, race, and suit level. Nothing more. All actions within that framework which adhere to that basic principle are permissible. A good way to tell if your actions violate the rules of the system is to observe whether or not your equipment starts popping. You see, nothing I'm doing pops my equipment, therefore I am in complete compliance with the system architect's exact intentions. Basically all that you've said is, "even though the introduction of BW points all signs to the developers not wanting a single person to play multiple roles, they've spoken to me and only me, and that isn't the case, so just trust me." As if you've ever at any point earned the trust of the community by doing anything at all. I've never even seen you making a presence in any thread besides this one and another dev thread where all you posted was, "In." Obviously I haven't read every thread ever made, but even the small number of threads I do read, I regularly see IWS, Soraya, and Zatara, and they actually contribute to the discussion instead of just saying, "I know what the devs want, and this isn't it." As to one of your specific statements, "A good way to tell if your actions violate the rules of the system is to observe whether or not your equipment starts popping," you see, I already broke that argument when I responded to Clone D. You aren't even arguing that I'm wrong(because you can't), you are just arguing that the game doesn't prevent you from doing it. I would've thought you would have understood that I was implying that there should be a fix implemented to this problem, like adding BW to active equipment as well, but maybe that went over your head. To top all of this off, you've stated that you use this tactic for your own benefit, so there's a conflict of interest if there ever was one. Obviously you wouldn't want a fix when you are actively gaining from this tactic. Maybe call up one of your CPM buddies to read my argument, and if they disagree they can actually give me an argument rather than, "I"m CPM I know what the devs want." SP Sinks? Fixed.