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Cross Atu
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
3036
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Posted - 2014.10.02 19:12:00 -
[1] - Quote
Input and feedback is being sought regarding the state of Commandos within Dust, and how to polish the experience.
When responding to this thread please note your primary role / primary context for use of each item being commented on so that proper context can be applied.
Cheers, Cross
PS ~ Commandos are something I know comparatively little about, so please do your best to be detailed and constructive so that I am able to provide the very best feedback and ideas to CCP. Thanks
See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
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Spademan
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
3913
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Posted - 2014.10.02 19:33:00 -
[2] - Quote
Okay, so I'm specced into the Minmatar Commando and use the CR and MD on it.
I remember I think either Adamance or Yassavi saying something along the lines of making them suppression units. I think the gist was to pump up the amount of ammo they can carry and the reload speed. A sort of "never stop shooting" kind of deal.
I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special.
Official Time Lord of the Scout Community
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Cass Caul
1186
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Posted - 2014.10.02 20:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
Primary role: gal scout/logi/assault, caldari Scout/logi/commando, Amarr Scout/logi/assault/sentinel, Minmatar Scout.
Honestly couldn't tell you which i use the most often, just that i use those more than the rest because they are my proto suits
Caldari commando: skilled it to 5 on day 1. Purpose was 95% because it's the only viable sniper suit. 5% because trail rifle was OP (now it's just really strong). Caldari commando: it needs a fifth module slot. there's a gigantic disparity in high slot vs low slot value. No suit in the game should only have 1 low slot.
Amarr commando. Lvl 3, use LP proto suits. Have it because i have a **** ton of SP. Amarr commando: 10% damage is less useful that 25% great build up reduction. HP difference between assault and commando is too close
Galmando: lvl 3, because Gallente fangirl. Galmando: short range on AR and slow make you an easy target. Shotgun without movement speed can be used for WTF moments but pretty useless. also as an alpha damage weapon 10% isn't significant. PLC, same problem as shotgun.
Minmatar: lvl 3 because i can Minmatar.: good, only because CR is still OP
Like the idea of added total ammo. Really think they need the same number of high/low slots as sentinel equivalents
On Hiatus.
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Bradric Banewolf
D3ATH CARD
367
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Posted - 2014.10.02 20:39:00 -
[4] - Quote
If we gave them the old assault suit slot layouts would that make them OP? Gal commando has the high slot crutch currently. Only one high slot at advanced and proto?! 3 high 2 low or 2 and 2 would be better, and I don't think it makes the suit OP. I could be wrong though.
"Anybody order chaos?"
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hfderrtgvcd
606
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Posted - 2014.10.02 21:21:00 -
[5] - Quote
All they need is a grenade slot.
You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
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Dremel wp
Shadow Company HQ Lokun Listamenn
37
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Posted - 2014.10.02 21:40:00 -
[6] - Quote
I'm thinking they need a third bonus, 20% max ammo/level to come out as a suppression fighter. They are usually at a disadvantage due to E-war and mobility. I think this would be step towards them being able to fight their way out of situations.
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DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance
563
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Posted - 2014.10.02 21:55:00 -
[7] - Quote
Im lvl 5 in gallente commando and caldari commando
i like a shotgun/AR combo with proxy scanner on the gallente and a rail rifle/sniper combo or rail rifle/ swarm launcher combo on the caldari commando
The shield stats on the caldari commando were intentionally desgined to nerf the suit. if you look at the shield stats of other commandos, theyre actually improved or equal to their racial assault suit. but the caldari commando is the only one thats made to be worse.
id like to see the commando damage bonus increased to 15% or extend the current damage and reload bonuses to racial sidearms
i know some people want more ammo or bigger clip sizes for a more suppressive role, but commanods have neither the HP to provided extended fire support while under fire, or good enough regen to get back into the fight.
the tight fitting requirements and limited module slot layout means each module slot must be maximized in terms of slot efficiency. we cant afford stacking penalties from multiple modules |
Alena Ventrallis
Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo
1862
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Posted - 2014.10.02 21:57:00 -
[8] - Quote
Specced I to Cal, Gal, and Min commandos.
First, we need to establish what commandos should do. Are they heavy assault? AV platforms? Until we give them a clear role, balancing them is moot.
Listen to my muscle memory
Contemplate what I've been clinging to
Forty-six and two ahead of me
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Vulpes Dolosus
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
2209
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Posted - 2014.10.02 22:31:00 -
[9] - Quote
Remove swarm damage bonus from Minmatar and give it to Caldari (just to troll Atiim).
Dust was real! I was there!
Dear diary, Rattati senpai noticed me today~
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Bahirae Serugiusu
Vendetta Reactionary Force
160
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Posted - 2014.10.02 22:51:00 -
[10] - Quote
Oh I see how it is the suit that can carry two light weapons and get a damage bonus gets the attention but Assault dropsuits get no attention |
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Derpty Derp
Dead Man's Game RUST415
487
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Posted - 2014.10.02 22:58:00 -
[11] - Quote
I use Commando suits, Gallent mostly now but Caldari (I think) before because I wanted to try out shields when all the new commando's were released.
Tac AR + Breach shotgun, 1 damage mod and an assortment of armour/reps depending on how I'm feeling. The shotgun is mostly for killing scouts or HMG's that get too close, but I have also pulled off some crazy scout-like jumps from high places to headshot people when feeling bored.
Have fun with both, come out with positive kdr using both... I think most of the complaints come from people who don't use commando because they like having their high speed suits, which can now have more hp anyway.
This leaves me confused though as although other suits do the job better, I'm still getting the kind of scores that caused ADS's to get nerfed. So even though it could use an increase to either hp or movespeed (to keep up with numbers on the assaults) or a grenade slot, I can't understand the thought process to what gets buffed/nerfed.
Perhaps the better idea would be to nerf (I know people hate nerf, but love buff, even though it does the same thing) the assault suit, drop the equipment slot so it doesn't do everything a commando does... PS the scout suit should also lose an equip slot to stop it doing the logi's job also. |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
3211
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Posted - 2014.10.02 23:09:00 -
[12] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:Specced I to Cal, Gal, and Min commandos.
First, we need to establish what commandos should do. Are they heavy assault? AV platforms? Until we give them a clear role, balancing them is moot.
(I've played around with all Commandos, heavy focus on Gallente with moderate on Minmatar. I'll avoid writing a multi-paragraph segment bragging about how many things I have trained.)
I fully agree that the Commando and Assault are largely redundant, and honestly in Legion they could combine most the bonuses/abilities into one suit and it would make a really solid role. But alas our bastard child that is the Commando exists, so we need to make due. I think it's fine that the Commando and Assault fill very similar roles, the important part is making each one fulfill a different facet of that role.
I think first we need to determine what the role of the Assault is under existing mechanics. Once we've determined that, we can see what other facets of the role the Commando could fulfill, without overly compartmentalizing the Assault role.
Assaults
Moderate-High Mobility: Well suited for closing distances and moderate flanking.
Weapon Support Bonuses: Offsets the weakness of Racial Weapons with Bonuses
Moderate Base HP-High Slot Count: Flexible yet capable of Moderate-High HP when fitted.
Medium Hitbox: Capable of relying on speed/hitbox to mitigate some incoming DPS
Weapon Fitting Bonus: Able to fit Higher tiered Light Weapons and Grenades with less cost.
So basically you have a role which is very mobile, and while not as quick as the scout, can still make use of less direct methods of getting from A to B. That is to say they are direct combat oriented, but not necessarily completely frontal assault.
They are not necessarily maximum damage dealers, as they don't actually boost the damage output of the weapon. Instead, bonuses offset negative attributes of their racial weapons, which in turn makes each weapon more flexible and viable in suboptimal situations.
In short, the Assault personifies direct but non-frontal combat, with a primary focus of flexibility and adaptability in the slaying role. Assaults are capable of putting focused DPS where it needs to go at the right time in order to get the job done cleanly.
So now what we've defined what the Assault does, let's look at some things that it doesn't do and discuss how we can tie those concepts into defining what the Commando should do.
Concepts to Consider and Discuss:
Direct Frontal Attacking (Higher Defense - Lower Mobility) Maximum Damage Output (Bonuses to Damage) Sustained Damage Output (Bonuses to Reload) Quantity Over Quality (Suppression Abilities) Less Flexible - More Focused Role (Buff Strengths of Weapons)
Additional Points of Contention: Little Incentive to use Prototype (Only 2 additional slots) and extremely Low Slot Count in general (2/3/4) when other suits have upwards of (4/6/8). Just as a starting measure the Commando should have the same slot layout as the Sentinels.
Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
3211
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Posted - 2014.10.02 23:10:00 -
[13] - Quote
Bahirae Serugiusu wrote:Oh I see how it is the suit that can carry two light weapons and get a damage bonus gets the attention but Assault dropsuits get no attention
*blinks* You don't really pay much attention to the hotfixes do you?
Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
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Chief-Shotty
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men.
283
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 23:47:00 -
[14] - Quote
I like to think commandos as a beefier or harder hitting assault..like a heavy infantry role. Not as a point defense or guard like a sentinel suit. Just an alternate form of an assault.
You can carry 2 light weapons for max flexibility and I prefer to use the 2 slots as one for infantry and the other for vehicle/long range support.
For example I routinely have an assault-support oriented fit CR with an Anti-Vehicle support -SWARM CR with a long range support- Mass Driver
The fast reload and higher damage offsets that im not really all that vulnerable if a i have to reload mid-combat and the higher damage offsets the needs for a secondary firearm or provide massive suppression ability against targets (Suppression is my focus). Unless you want to be flexible for attacking shield and armor tanked suits.
The problems i seem to have is for the role of heavier assault -its a bit slow and doesn't really pack the health for its size -The lack of customization really hurts because you have disadvantages in the suit but you can't offset it with modules much. (biotics,health etc)
-too slow to be a frontline pusher (CQC) -not EHP sufficient to be a sentinel (Guard or point holder)
I prefer to orient the commando towards assault, with that said. -Same H/L slot count of sentinels -Slight increase to movement/sprint speeds -maybe a grenade slot
The only thing i would be afraid of is highslot stacking (I know someone will stack damage mods to make them OP) So perhaps more low sots then usual....maybe this might fix your biotics modules being unused. I would love to put kin-cats/cardio enhancers on it. While still having the capacity to put internal reps. Although most will just stack more armor health because of the general brick-tank meta. At least that will stop the complaints that other suits can out tank a heavy suit.
I also think its is worst of when it comes to ewar. Its slow like a heavy but don't pack the health, the damage of an HMG, or the evasion movement to offset being surprised by a scout.
8-Time New Eden Mass Driver Champion
Min Commando Combat Rifle and Mass Driver = FUN and Tears
OMG the Tears!! :)
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Magnus Amadeuss
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
1118
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Posted - 2014.10.03 00:00:00 -
[15] - Quote
So I have pretty much always used amarr weapons as much as I possibly can. I have all amarr suits at proto and have had them like that since the amarr scout was released, and I only run amarr suits (well on occasion I guess I run my covenant C-1.
Believe me when I say the overheat from amarr weapons just kills using those weapons on any non-assault suit. Honestly, there is no other group of weapons in this game that are just completely hobbled outside of just one suit, except for amarrian weapons.
To this point, yeah one of the amarrian commandos bonuses goes mostly unused. Maybe for the lead charged shot with a scrambler but after that I HAVE to switch or I will overheat.
Fixing swarms
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TH1EFOFSOuLS
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
38
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Posted - 2014.10.03 00:20:00 -
[16] - Quote
I am a caldari mando and a minmatar commando.
CALDARI CAMMANDO My caldari commando I do not use for open combat even though it gets a a sick 10% bonus to my rail rifles which are at max prof and sniper rifles which are also at max prof. For the simple fact 3 low slots and 1 low is terrible on that suit. Should I put a shield regulator or an armor rep rate? I don't want a reactive plate. (more armor and a rep ****) because its simple to slow for all that even though its based as shields I cannot afford an penalty's on it. So then what should I do with a complex REG on?
Well I cant put a damage mod on it because we all know a caldri with no damage mods is the only real way to caldari, so I put on shields. 2 complex shield extenders puts me a little over 600 shield and a complex shield energizer puts shield regen a little over 35.00 so there goes all my high slots. I can forget fitting two proto guns let alone one without max skills
MINMATAR CAMMANDO
As for this thing it is fine. FIIIIIIINE. Max prof swarms max prof mass drivers prof 4 combat rifles wth sharpshooter 4. Is awesome
As for tanking mods well a enh armor plate (or complex) with a ehn armor rep and high slots your going to want 1 complex damage mod and some kind of shield ext add a basic nano hive to and your set
I cant tell you about the ammar and gal cammandos but if I had a alt fall in my hands with at least 8mil SP I would definitely spec into gal commando I love AR and I know they are beast (at least I can make them beast)
All and all if any commando will get buffed/changed it needs to be cal or people will just only use it for sniper and camping like I do. |
bogeyman m
Minmatar Republic
420
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 03:27:00 -
[17] - Quote
As someone earlier said, Commandos should be thought of as a 'heavy Assault' suit. As such, I think they (generally) only need a few tweaks: 1. Make the speed and movement for each race half way between their respective Sentinel and Assault. 2. Make the inherent EWAR stats (profile, range & precision) the same as the Assault suits. 3. Add a grenade slot.
I'll leave any interracial balancing for those with more experience with multiple suits as I have only spec'd into Minmatar.
Duct tape 2.0 ... Have WD-40; will travel.
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The Master Race
Immortal Guides
57
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Posted - 2014.10.03 05:51:00 -
[18] - Quote
It would be nice if they had grenades with increased supply and throw distance. I don't know if you guys would be able to do it, but if so this https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=176744&find=unread would be amazing.
New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
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Mossellia Delt
Militaires Sans Jeux
1652
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 06:03:00 -
[19] - Quote
I run them as mobile defence. I have the min commando.
I find the speed easier for city map defence then the the heavies speed. Also the MD being great at area denial is good for coving points being hacked.
Delt for CPM2
CPM1 MISSION : FAILED
Moss-delt on skype
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DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance
564
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 06:41:00 -
[20] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:Specced I to Cal, Gal, and Min commandos.
First, we need to establish what commandos should do. Are they heavy assault? AV platforms? Until we give them a clear role, balancing them is moot. (I've played around with all Commandos, heavy focus on Gallente with moderate on Minmatar. I'll avoid writing a multi-paragraph segment bragging about how many things I have trained.) I fully agree that the Commando and Assault are largely redundant, and honestly in Legion they could combine most the bonuses/abilities into one suit and it would make a really solid role. But alas our bastard child that is the Commando exists, so we need to make due. I think it's fine that the Commando and Assault fill very similar roles, the important part is making each one fulfill a different facet of that role. I think first we need to determine what the role of the Assault is under existing mechanics. Once we've determined that, we can see what other facets of the role the Commando could fulfill, without overly compartmentalizing the Assault role. AssaultsModerate-High Mobility: Well suited for closing distances and moderate flanking. Weapon Support Bonuses: Offsets the weakness of Racial Weapons with Bonuses Moderate Base HP-High Slot Count: Flexible yet capable of Moderate-High HP when fitted. Medium Hitbox: Capable of relying on speed/hitbox to mitigate some incoming DPS Weapon Fitting Bonus: Able to fit Higher tiered Light Weapons and Grenades with less cost. So basically you have a role which is very mobile, and while not as quick as the scout, can still make use of less direct methods of getting from A to B. That is to say they are direct combat oriented, but not necessarily completely frontal assault. They are not necessarily maximum damage dealers, as they don't actually boost the damage output of the weapon. Instead, bonuses offset negative attributes of their racial weapons, which in turn makes each weapon more flexible and viable in suboptimal situations. In short, the Assault personifies direct but non-frontal combat, with a primary focus of flexibility and adaptability in the slaying role. Assaults are capable of putting focused DPS where it needs to go at the right time in order to get the job done cleanly. So now what we've defined what the Assault does, let's look at some things that it doesn't do and discuss how we can tie those concepts into defining what the Commando should do. Concepts to Consider and Discuss: Direct Frontal Attacking (Higher Defense - Lower Mobility) Maximum Damage Output (Bonuses to Damage) Sustained Damage Output (Bonuses to Reload) Quantity Over Quality (Suppression Abilities) Less Flexible - More Focused Role (Buff Strengths of Weapons) Additional Points of Contention: Little Incentive to use Prototype (Only 2 additional slots) and extremely Low Slot Count in general (2/3/4) when other suits have upwards of (4/6/8). Just as a starting measure the Commando should have the same slot layout as the Sentinels.
i'd like to see these added:
module efficacy bonuses tailored to each suit( minimal slots is fine if we get bonuses to the modules we use)
increased damage bonus to 15%
better and more of a focus on regen tanking
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
3356
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Posted - 2014.10.03 07:47:00 -
[21] - Quote
Commandos lack a predefined role. Before any balance can be achieved a role MUST be defined. Suppression is bullsh*t because suppression is deterring enemis from acting. Unfortunately it requires range. Its why the HMG is not a suppression weapon. The ranges it operates at are so short that "advance and kill" is always the most efficient answer.
I use the commando as a substitute for bothering skilling into assault suits, because I have heavy frames already. Overall assaults work better because as "heavy attack" the commandos do not actually have any advantage over, say a gallente or amarr dropsuit. The damage outputs are similar even with stacking penalties because commando suits have less slots.
Adding a grenade is a bandaid. Adding another slot is a bandaid. It's not a bandaid when the commando role is defined and the suits reworked for that purpose. Right now they function as assaults except slower, easier to hit, with crappier scanning and the tightest pg/cpu in the game that I have seen.
It's in many ways more generic than the assault. It matches assaults for HP with no fittings, but usually fitting for tank on a commando is not an awesome idea.
Now the +damage feature of the commando is kinda neat, but in the case of the amarr commando the DPS output is anemic compared to the amarr assault because of overheat mechanics. The AK.0 COMMANDO TRADES 25% MORE FIRE TIME, or potentially 25% more rounds on target for 10% damage. The outputs of both laser weapons is terrible by comparison. My pre-buff A/1 assault suit was a better killer than my commando A/1 currently because of laser overheat.
Honestly I think commandos could make excellent door kickers and heavy attack if they had more slots, were bonused for biotics and sensors and could be spiked for "crash & smash" style play. But to be a shocktrooper they need to be able to compensate for slow speed, huge hitbox and anemic damage output on the amarr suits.
Now if we want to make commandos into suppression/support they need tank and they need RANGE. To be suppression units we would need to bonus them for range instead of damage, set them up for fast regen and shower them with ammo capacity and minimize the reload downtime.
Or we can make them infiltration and destruction, bonusing them for cloaks and demolitions gear.
But we need to pick a role. Nothing can be done except bandaid fixes until a role is chosen. |
CommanderBolt
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
1860
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Posted - 2014.10.03 08:17:00 -
[22] - Quote
They are too slow and too blind.
"Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones"
"Guns for show, Knives for a pro"
MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
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Alena Ventrallis
Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo
1866
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Posted - 2014.10.03 09:56:00 -
[23] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Commandos lack a predefined role. Before any balance can be achieved a role MUST be defined. Suppression is bullsh*t because suppression is deterring enemis from acting. Unfortunately it requires range. Its why the HMG is not a suppression weapon. The ranges it operates at are so short that "advance and kill" is always the most efficient answer.
I use the commando as a substitute for bothering skilling into assault suits, because I have heavy frames already. Overall assaults work better because as "heavy attack" the commandos do not actually have any advantage over, say a gallente or amarr dropsuit. The damage outputs are similar even with stacking penalties because commando suits have less slots.
Adding a grenade is a bandaid. Adding another slot is a bandaid. It's not a bandaid when the commando role is defined and the suits reworked for that purpose. Right now they function as assaults except slower, easier to hit, with crappier scanning and the tightest pg/cpu in the game that I have seen.
It's in many ways more generic than the assault. It matches assaults for HP with no fittings, but usually fitting for tank on a commando is not an awesome idea.
Now the +damage feature of the commando is kinda neat, but in the case of the amarr commando the DPS output is anemic compared to the amarr assault because of overheat mechanics. The AK.0 COMMANDO TRADES 25% MORE FIRE TIME, or potentially 25% more rounds on target for 10% damage. The outputs of both laser weapons is terrible by comparison. My pre-buff A/1 assault suit was a better killer than my commando A/1 currently because of laser overheat.
Honestly I think commandos could make excellent door kickers and heavy attack if they had more slots, were bonused for biotics and sensors and could be spiked for "crash & smash" style play. But to be a shocktrooper they need to be able to compensate for slow speed, huge hitbox and anemic damage output on the amarr suits.
Now if we want to make commandos into suppression/support they need tank and they need RANGE. To be suppression units we would need to bonus them for range instead of damage, set them up for fast regen and shower them with ammo capacity and minimize the reload downtime.
Or we can make them infiltration and destruction, bonusing them for cloaks and demolitions gear.
But we need to pick a role. Nothing can be done except bandaid fixes until a role is chosen. This.
Listen to my muscle memory
Contemplate what I've been clinging to
Forty-six and two ahead of me
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shaman oga
Nexus Balusa Horizon
2894
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Posted - 2014.10.03 11:10:00 -
[24] - Quote
In different charachters, i use all commando suits except the amarr. I always fit racial weapons to use my bonus (it's the only thing that really help commando)
Minmando: AV (with a LAV for better mobility) or MD+CR combo when i'm in a better position than my enemies.
Galmando: I use PLC+AR combo or double AR (2 different variants), this is more general purpose than the other commando i have.
Calmando: I use it to snipe, stop.
This is my stance on commando.
CPU/PG buff This is almost a must, with such low slot count in every slot you need to fit the better module you have. If not enough:
+1 slot count This would help to fit commando and gain a edge in HP over assaults If still not enough:
Nade slot This would be the non plus ultra and definitely would help commando to be a complete class which would handle different situation.
All this stuff will help commando to play its role which is the same of the assault but with less mobility.
PSN: ogamega
"Dust is full of communists who despise people with enough isk to buy expensive items"
LOCK REGIONS
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
3360
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Posted - 2014.10.03 11:40:00 -
[25] - Quote
shaman oga wrote: All this stuff will help commando to play its role which is the same of the assault but with less mobility.
herein lies the problem.
There is no clearly defined role.
It appears to be "assault with more drawbacks" at the moment.
There is no differentiation between the purpose of the assault and commando armor. |
Kierkegaard Soren
THE HANDS OF DEATH
528
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Posted - 2014.10.03 12:46:00 -
[26] - Quote
Hello. Just thought I'd add my input, thanks to the CPM for the chance to do so.
As my sig implies, I've been a commando since the suit was first introduced all the way back in early Uprising, back when the STD variant had no slots save for its weapons and equipment. As a pauper player, that suit was my bread and butter. It was how I learned to play the game, and die in it. On special occasions I would crack open the ADV and get giddy over the idea of armour repairing during the fight. Also, it was back when the suit bonus "enhanced" (that term being used with some strong irony there) any defensive modules that you did equip, if you could. It was widely derided, not least because, as noted above, the basic variant could not make use of it.
Still, the actual idea of increasing module efficiency was a sound one, and when the balance pass was made on tcommandos that turned the suit into the creature it is today, I was a little sad that the original bonus was removed in favour of racial damage bonuses. It made sense of course, but I think we were onto something.
You seem the fear back then was that increasing the slot count of a suit that could hold two light weapons would make assaults redundant and turn the commando into an unstoppable slayer of both clones and vehicles alike, and that is technically true; give it too many slots and the capability to hold grenades and suddenly the larger bit box and slow movement, long seen as a balance/crippling blow to the strength of the suit becomes distinctly less problematic. You can solve the deficiencies with modules should you choose to do so. But it is also still true that the commando has no defined role, and no real strength or viability in the meta of the game. So, my proposal would be two-fold:
1) Solidify the concept held by many of us in the community that the commando should be a suppression fighter that can put out more rounds down range than any other class in the game, giving his team mates the opportunity to press forward knowing that the commando has their back covered: 8% INCREASE TO RACIAL WEAPON MAGAZINE SIZE PER RANK.
2) To give the commando staying power without increasing the slot layout which would, in my view, make a specialised class too capable of flexability in its fitting,give it 8% INCREASE TO EFFICIACY OF DEFENSIVE MODULES PER RANK. Keep the slot layout the same for the suits, change nothing else.
Thanks for reading.
Dedicated Commando.
"He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." -Paul Atreides.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
3363
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Posted - 2014.10.03 13:08:00 -
[27] - Quote
Suppression without range is worthless. As I said before, at the ranges all weapons operate suppressive fire is meaningless. Advance and kill will always be the more meaningful choice. The only suppression weapon in the game that deserves the name is the laser rifle.
And your solution does not address the comparative worthlessness of the amarr commando compared to the amarr assault. The overheat will always mean thatt ammandos will always be less efficient combatants than amarr assault.
Making commandos into suppressors without giving them a range advantage will always be another bloody bandaid fix. |
Booby Tuesdays
Tuesdays With Boobies
869
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Posted - 2014.10.03 13:35:00 -
[28] - Quote
I only have Min Commando, but it too is PG starved like the rest of the Commandos. I primarily use it for AV and point defense. I can usually hold the fort solo long enough for reinforcements to arrive, and fend off dropships from reaching the high ground. This is the best use of the suit I have found so far. If anything, I would give all Commandos a bonus to AV, and give them a grenade slot for AV grenades. PC, SL, and AV nades would all get a bonus, something like 2 or 3% per level. This would then mean vehicles should get a SMALL buff to compensate for a dedicated pilot popper suit.
Day One Proto Minmatar Commando.
A Mass Driver IS My Sidearm.
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CamClarke
0uter.Heaven
154
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Posted - 2014.10.03 13:41:00 -
[29] - Quote
In their current state, Commandos are best used as an overwatch+AV suit parked on highground while sitting on the hives they equipped. It's very boring but helpful in the right position. If that's their intended role, then they do a fine job at it because there's no other suit that can do both at once.
That's also why the two considered the best are Caldari for the bonus to longest ranged rifle and Minmatar for the bonus to the best light AV.
They just cannot perform the same on the ground because there are too many anti-Medium predators (and really, a Commando is just a slower Assault with both a Swarm and a rifle). Sure, in skilled hands they'll do okay, but the ground pounding is simply done better by the more durable Sentinels and the speedier and stealthier Scouts.
If they're supposed to do something else than camp highground, then tweaks should be applied accordingly. Everyone needs to be on the same page regarding what that role is first, though.
General purpose ground combat? Assaults have that covered. In fact, if it weren't for the Swarms on the Commando, they'd be the ones in the Commando's place on highground.
Heavy breaching actions? Sentinels got that.
AV? Sentinels got that too if they have good aim.
Anything speed/stealth related? Not a chance in hell.
Logistical work? No. Just no.
Simply adding slots willy-nilly is a band-aid fix that won't really change anything. Look at Assaults. They had that exact thing happen to them not very long ago, and did that put them on level playing ground with Sentinels and Scouts? No, although it did reduce the gap a tad. The problem is much more deep-seated than that, however, as PC is still dominated by Sentinels, Scouts, and a couple Logistics keeping the Sentinels alive, and maybe a Commando or two doing the overwatch thing.
Though I would like to see them get a tad more CPU/PG at least, their fitting is damn tight.
For the record, I have Caldari Commando 5 and only one real fit for it. Specialist Swarms, Specialist Rail Rifle, 2 Damage Mods, Shield Recharger, Armor Plate, Rep Hives. Pub fit downgrades to Ammo Hives, Reactive Plate, isk proto Swarms/RR. |
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
3367
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Posted - 2014.10.03 14:13:00 -
[30] - Quote
Honestly I'd make the commando into a shocktrooper.
Screw suppression, give it bonusing for biotics for fast, sustained attack for the amarr and gallente while making the caldari aspected for better detection as a countersniper and long range hunter. Take the minmatar and give it a bit of HP module bonus because it's already faster.
Offensively just give them a 5% per level reload speed bonus.
Offensive power?
Caldari: reduce dispersion.
Amarr: reduce heat buildup
Gallente: more magazine capacity (assault rifle with more ammo. Hold down that trigger and go nuts)
Minmatar: reduce recoil.
Or something.
Let commando suits be SHOCK troops. Hit fast, hit hard, high casualty expectation. You throw commandos when taking the objective is more important than survival and ISK efficiency.
Lets the assaults enjoy cautious advance, let commandos be havoc balls that expect to just disrupt the enemy. |
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