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Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3356	Posted - 2014.10.03 07:47:00 - [1] - Quote Commandos lack a predefined role. Before any balance can be achieved a role MUST be defined. Suppression is bullsh*t because suppression is deterring enemis from acting. Unfortunately it requires range. Its why the HMG is not a suppression weapon. The ranges it operates at are so short that "advance and kill" is always the most efficient answer. I use the commando as a substitute for bothering skilling into assault suits, because I have heavy frames already. Overall assaults work better because as "heavy attack" the commandos do not actually have any advantage over, say a gallente or amarr dropsuit. The damage outputs are similar even with stacking penalties because commando suits have less slots. Adding a grenade is a bandaid. Adding another slot is a bandaid. It's not a bandaid when the commando role is defined and the suits reworked for that purpose. Right now they function as assaults except slower, easier to hit, with crappier scanning and the tightest pg/cpu in the game that I have seen. It's in many ways more generic than the assault. It matches assaults for HP with no fittings, but usually fitting for tank on a commando is not an awesome idea. Now the +damage feature of the commando is kinda neat, but in the case of the amarr commando the DPS output is anemic compared to the amarr assault because of overheat mechanics. The AK.0 COMMANDO TRADES 25% MORE FIRE TIME, or potentially 25% more rounds on target for 10% damage. The outputs of both laser weapons is terrible by comparison. My pre-buff A/1 assault suit was a better killer than my commando A/1 currently because of laser overheat. Honestly I think commandos could make excellent door kickers and heavy attack if they had more slots, were bonused for biotics and sensors and could be spiked for "crash & smash" style play. But to be a shocktrooper they need to be able to compensate for slow speed, huge hitbox and anemic damage output on the amarr suits. Now if we want to make commandos into suppression/support they need tank and they need RANGE. To be suppression units we would need to bonus them for range instead of damage, set them up for fast regen and shower them with ammo capacity and minimize the reload downtime. Or we can make them infiltration and destruction, bonusing them for cloaks and demolitions gear. But we need to pick a role. Nothing can be done except bandaid fixes until a role is chosen.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3360	Posted - 2014.10.03 11:40:00 - [2] - Quote shaman oga wrote: All this stuff will help commando to play its role which is the same of the assault but with less mobility. herein lies the problem. There is no clearly defined role. It appears to be "assault with more drawbacks" at the moment. There is no differentiation between the purpose of the assault and commando armor.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3363	Posted - 2014.10.03 13:08:00 - [3] - Quote Suppression without range is worthless. As I said before, at the ranges all weapons operate suppressive fire is meaningless. Advance and kill will always be the more meaningful choice. The only suppression weapon in the game that deserves the name is the laser rifle. And your solution does not address the comparative worthlessness of the amarr commando compared to the amarr assault. The overheat will always mean thatt ammandos will always be less efficient combatants than amarr assault. Making commandos into suppressors without giving them a range advantage will always be another bloody bandaid fix.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3367	Posted - 2014.10.03 14:13:00 - [4] - Quote Honestly I'd make the commando into a shocktrooper. Screw suppression, give it bonusing for biotics for fast, sustained attack for the amarr and gallente while making the caldari aspected for better detection as a countersniper and long range hunter. Take the minmatar and give it a bit of HP module bonus because it's already faster. Offensively just give them a 5% per level reload speed bonus. Offensive power? Caldari: reduce dispersion. Amarr: reduce heat buildup Gallente: more magazine capacity (assault rifle with more ammo. Hold down that trigger and go nuts) Minmatar: reduce recoil. Or something. Let commando suits be SHOCK troops. Hit fast, hit hard, high casualty expectation. You throw commandos when taking the objective is more important than survival and ISK efficiency. Lets the assaults enjoy cautious advance, let commandos be havoc balls that expect to just disrupt the enemy.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3377	Posted - 2014.10.03 16:28:00 - [5] - Quote There is no getting around the simple fact that the amarr heat bonus is the single most usefyl bonus in the game. And the ammando loses more damage potential to overheat than anything else. The 10% damage bonus does not at any point translate to even approaching that level of useful. No other suit can use amarr weaponry effectively. Just the amarr assault.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3382	Posted - 2014.10.03 20:14:00 - [6] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Keep it coming mercs, the more feedback the better. o7 Cross We could provide better feedback if there was a clear statement of intent on what CCP intends the commando to be. If they intended it to be a suppressor they will need to bonus it for +range or significantly overhaul the ranges and expand the map sizes back out. If they want a shocktrooper we can do that. We need a statement of intent or we're just plinking away at "this sounds cool" and "oops, another bandaid fix."
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3387	Posted - 2014.10.04 07:16:00 - [7] - Quote Let's go with the shocktrooper with a side of sustained "workhorse" support. If we change the layout to 3/2 for min and cal, and put 2/3 for amarr and gallente we can make them a bit more balanced and keep them from locking in sentinel level HP. Change the universal role bonus to 3% damage to racial weapon type per level. Galmando: built for sustained combat and "shock" +5% per level to base and sprint speed (offensive bonus) +5% per level to armor repair modules. (Defensive bonus) Ammando: optimized for shock and fire support. -10% per level from speed penalty from reactive and standard plates.(defensive Bonus) -3% per level reduction to heat buildup on laser weapons (offensive bonus), to keep amarr assaults as the bsst laser platform. Minmando: built for shock, and skirmish combat. +10% per level to efficacy of biotics. (Defensive bonus) +3% increase to ammo capacity and magazine capacity. (Offensive bonus) Calmando: built for long range suppression and counter sniper. +5% per level to shield rechargers and energizer efficacy. (Defensive bonus) -5% to recoil per level (offensive bonus) Build them to be able to either hammer the crap out of things by mobility and give them the recovery to sustain the combat. Do NOT give them more EHP.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3390	Posted - 2014.10.04 18:00:00 - [8] - Quote I'm bluntly neutral on the whole grenade issue. i don't care if commandos never get 'em. I never use them on my sentinels, because heavy weapons. I use sentinels so often that it never occurs to me to use the nades on lighter suits. And if we're rigging the Commandos for shocktrooper and sustainment "workhorse" combat, then I'd leave nades to the assaults, who are really the breach specialists. If you need nades use a mass driver or a plasma cannon. they're a bit more efficient. And nades have been nerfed into uselessness because people screamed like little girls who's brothers mutilated their barbie dolls because grenades used to be lethal and of course, anyone who uses a weapon that is EFFECTIVE at killing people is a cheap scrub, amirite? /sarcasm off. But grenades won't make much difference in the performance of the commandos, and my proposal is intended to be rather tight. if you add nades, then I'd say keep them to four slots rather than matching the sentinel 5. They need to sacrifice something for their versatility. And i don't want assaults pushed further from their core niche.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3397	Posted - 2014.10.05 16:17:00 - [9] - Quote Oops, accidentally bumped into this thread again. Any input from you, Cross?
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3415	Posted - 2014.10.06 14:20:00 - [10] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: They should all have an AV bonus. Give Caldari a swarm bonus (like min) and Amarr a plasma cannon bonus (like Gal). There we go, a defined AV role. Keep the current bonuses aswell so that AV isn't thier only role. I like the idea of an ammo bonus to promote a suppression role aswell. Again, this is a bandaid fix. Base your ideas around a role. My favorite roles to fit for: Shocktrooper (gallente does this best so far) Supporting fire (minmatar with mass driver is a great way to make enemies get out of the way of inbound assaults) Countersniper (amarr and caldari excel here) Saboteur (RE and prox mines) Wishlist: Detection bonusing. Logi hunter (spotting/clearing equipment)

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3444	Posted - 2014.10.07 16:14:00 - [11] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: @ Cross To what extent do performance statistics suggest that Commandos are hurting? I'm willing to guess they're about where I'm guessing. Not horrendously underused but really not used as much as more specialized suits.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3457	Posted - 2014.10.07 17:52:00 - [12] - Quote I would suggest that the slot layout be normalized to sentinel. Trading the grenade slot for the equipment slot seems ok, and honestly grenades are gimped anyway. The PG/CPU might need to be a bit looser because there is no 25% fitting reduction for weapons on the commando. Universal role bonus: +Damage to racial weapons. I'd go with 3% per level as 10% is more or less negligible as far as output goes. Defensive bonus: Significant bonuses for recovery following racial themes. Gallente: Armor rep mods, Amarr: Plate speed penalty reduction, Minmatar: regulator bonus or on-board ammo nano-regeneration systems (slower than hives/supply depots, but perhaps 1 bullet per second per level, mass driver shells at a rate of 1 every 6 seconds minus 1 per level, same for swarms), Caldari: boost to recharger/energizer/regulator efficacy. Offensive bonus: a unique attack bonus that will allow the suits to be used in sustained attacks This is where i think we should dip OUTSIDE normal racial thematics. EG gallente might get a flat bonus to speed by incorporating minmatar movement tech. Amarr might gain a bit of range by incorporating Caldari tech into their laser optics and targeting systems. (think long range suppression and counter-sniper) Minmatar might gain a bonus to biotics and become even MORE obnoxiously fast attack to complement the gallente allies. Caldari might seek to emulate amarr laser utility by deploying smaller, higher density ammunition allowing longer sustained fire and better battlefield longevity by carrying more rail ammunition.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3494	Posted - 2014.10.09 07:48:00 - [13] - Quote The post above is not bad. It also fits in the traditional vein of a "commando" being a specialist who can be expected to not only adapt to any odd situation, but overcome it. However, the soldiers we think of as "commando" in modern parlance such as SEALs and Marine Force Recon (thank you hollywood you bastards) actually fall short when placed on a main line in open ground warfare. In that situation they are no better or worse than a regular line soldier. But that is more the nature of war than a measure of their competence.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3539	Posted - 2014.10.10 06:37:00 - [14] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: give them high scan range and precision, so the commandos can see everything on a battlefield. dont make their passive scan shared. and give them terrible scan profiles so they cant hide. this lets the class react to threats as they emerge, but its balanced by their inability to to use cloaks, dampen effectively, and their lack of mobility. This would also be an acceptable option over putzing with fitting. It would also give me a.reason to max out my EWAR skills.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3558	Posted - 2014.10.11 07:50:00 - [15] - Quote Take the scout argument to another thread you dipwads. This is a discussion of commandos. Take the scout idiocy elsewhere. It is not relevant to topic.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3590	Posted - 2014.10.11 17:55:00 - [16] - Quote Role suggestions along similar thematics: Commandos should be able to fall into one of the four following depending on fit. 1: Shocktrooper. Mission is to locate, close with and destroy enemy hardpoints. This should include things such as breaking into areas heavily defended and being able to occupy sentinels while the assaults do the actual work. 2: Fire Support/Suppression: We all know how this works. Lob mass driver shells, laser rifles, PLC shells at enemy positions, etc. This includes counter-snipers. This is the AV blanket role. 3: assassin hunter: finding poorly damped single enemies who specialize in ambushes/knifing and killing them. 4: Saboteur: delivery of mines and remote explosives to enemy targets. Honestly I think commandos are best rigged for raw damage, recovery and detection instead of raw HP. The one thing I'm not wanting at all is more HP creep.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3595	Posted - 2014.10.11 20:06:00 - [17] - Quote there is absolutely no point in giving commandos a scan range/precision bonus if fully range modded they can only detect just outside the tiny inner ring, and they cannot fit enough precision to catch an undamped scout. that radar has a 120m range. the three rings correspond to 40 meter increments, the tiny ring is "under 20"
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3626	Posted - 2014.10.13 22:54:00 - [18] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Am not a fan of the EWAR Commando concept, feels like it's getting a little too weird. Last thing we need to do is throw more Commando-sized wrenches into the mess that is EWAR. EWAR needs to be killed with fire, seared to ash and used to plant the new field. My wishlist for a client update (Rouge throw us a bone here) is as follows: 1: add inertia to dropsuits. 2: rebuild EWAR. That is all
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3638	Posted - 2014.10.15 10:12:00 - [19] - Quote Blueprint For Murder wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Another heavy in an LAV? And vehicle surfing only works in pubs. And since both of those are compensating for the lack of speed that a heavy would need if they are to be buffed to fulfill a role then they should receive all pertinent buffs needed to fulfill that role, not be given a new role but only half the tools to execute it with. Well put someone on the forums once had written that pc was 1% of the games pop now I do not know if this is true, but even if it is not I would say the viability of said actions on any plain is situational and therefore debatable. let's consider you can only have one match per district per day. The top PC corps aren't exactly the majority of players. Each corp has designated teams who do PC battles. PC corps are not the majority of the players. PC combatants do not make up the majority of PC corp players. so while I'll admit 1% is an exaggeration, realistically you have one in 20 working PC at the most.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3640	Posted - 2014.10.15 11:13:00 - [20] - Quote back to the topic at hand: No one really agrees what the commando should be because everyone USES them for different purposes. no two answers have been alike, which tells me that the construction of the commando line was TOO open and the bonusing too generic. I would like to propose we set the primary purpose of the commando is the sustained application of focused destruction, allowing it to operate in a shocktrooper/doorkicker role as well as a fire support platform to accomplish this I propose 5 slot layout, with a different layout than the sentinels so the commandos are less limited at either end of the fitting spectrum. Gallente/Amarr share 2H/3L Minmatar/Caldari share 3H/2L PG/CPU increase to account for new slots and roles Universal Role Bonus: 50% increase to shield recharger/energizer and armor repair efficacy. If Commandos are expected to perform in sustained engagements their recovery is going to be a lot more important than a Sentinel's ability to soak fire. This will allow "rep tanking" that doesn't involve a logi, and cannot be spiked above the incoming DPS of ANY weapon. It is intended to allow the dropsuits to fade behind cover and recover rapidly whetehr between engagements or to avoid fire by timid opponents who won't chase. Gallente: 3% bonus to plasma damage per level 3% bonus to suit base and sprint speed per level The gallente are CQC fighters, pure and simple. if they cannot get into contact range, they're useless. Amarr: 3% bonus to laser weaponry damage per level 3% bonus to stamina amount and regeneration per level Amarr run longer, stronger and are the slowboats of the dropsuits, they're also the hardest to out-endure. Caldari: 3% bonus to Rail weaponry damage per level 3% bonus to weapon charge speed per level (excluding Sniper Rifles) Caldari Commandos are the long-range fire-support platforms. Their purpose in life is to reach out and touch someone. What they do best is hit harder and fire faster than their brethren. Minmatar: 3% bonus to Explosive Weaponry per level 3% bonus to projectile weaponry per level Minmatar are defined by the fragility of their armor and shields, the speed of their dropsuits and their unnatural ability to hit harder than nearly any other racial equipment in existence. They're the race who tanks by ganking you before you can react.

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3766	Posted - 2014.10.20 20:56:00 - [21] - Quote looking forward to see what you cook up cross. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3768	Posted - 2014.10.20 22:10:00 - [22] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: looking forward to see what you cook up cross. o7 Once iteration #1 goes up we can see what responses the merc here assembled can give, refine as needed Given that the discussion has remained civil and free of the usual freefire idiocy any chance of conning the devs into active discussion? Honestly I'd like to see their input as well as our weird agreeing in oddly different wasy discussion. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3783	Posted - 2014.10.21 07:57:00 - [23] - Quote If you can give us a vision statement we can give you more useful, systematic and targeted feedback. Right now our feedback is basically a shotgun when we need a tac rifle. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3795	Posted - 2014.10.21 16:13:00 - [24] - Quote Oh if you could get CCP to loosen the death grip on information you'd be my hero. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3833	Posted - 2014.10.22 09:10:00 - [25] - Quote It's a good start Cross. Please pass along my complements to theDev team. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3853	Posted - 2014.10.23 05:13:00 - [26] - Quote Amarr are all scrubby scout hipsters. Don't lie. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4005	Posted - 2014.10.27 07:57:00 - [27] - Quote Native reps are going to have minimal net effect upon actual gameplay. Mostly my opinion is that commandos are basically bonused as assaults for fatties without giving them a separate role. It's like they were designed so that heavy suits could assault without having to drop points into assault. I know that's not the design intent but it's what the default uses of the suits seem to drop into. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4021	Posted - 2014.10.27 18:01:00 - [28] - Quote Ku Shala wrote: its a heavy suit let it carry a heavy weapon and a light weapon at the cost of hp Because we all know NOTHING could possibly go wrong with this plan. Forge +swarms/PLC, here I come! EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4022	Posted - 2014.10.27 18:43:00 - [29] - Quote Ku Shala wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Because we all know NOTHING could possibly go wrong with this plan. Forge +swarms/PLC, here I come! good luck killing a scout with your swarms or a forge with no splash or any other infantry for that matter. Yes because the sidearm is so very effective. I use an assault forge. It's easier to splash the scouts to death than try to kill them with a bolt pistol. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4022	Posted - 2014.10.27 18:48:00 - [30] - Quote Ku Shala wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: [ Yes because the sidearm is so very effective. I use an assault forge. It's easier to splash the scouts to death than try to kill them with a bolt pistol. so you dont play this and/or haven't realized that the forge does not splash? direct hit only for the last goddamn time, Assault forge Guns have retained the splash. Keep up and don't try to correct me on anything regarding how sentinels and heavy weapons work. You're going to wind up looking like an idiot. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4026	Posted - 2014.10.27 19:06:00 - [31] - Quote Ku Shala wrote: or you could explain why my Idea would be op instead of being a troll all the time.maybe learn how to aim instead of spam splashing infantry to death with an av weapon. Allow me to break this down to you shotgun style. I use an assault forge gun with a fire time of 2.25 seconds. I can take a python's shields out in 2 shots, and while he's starting evasive maneuvers I can put two swarm shots away instead of having to connect with a third. He will never get away. period. end. Same with a Madrugar. Swarms do more damage. i can hotrack 3 light damage mods and thump him twice with a forge then annihilate it by flashing swarms. And finally, I only splash 1/10 enemy dropsuits with any forge. Almost every kill I get is a single-hit bodyshot that not even a bricktanked gallente sentinel can survive. I figured out how to use an assault forge as a CQC breach tool back when goons did PC. I do it every so often to enrage people. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4292	Posted - 2014.11.01 10:01:00 - [32] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Proposal link added to the OP. In light of the recent changes to native reps, and in the interests of iterative balance, I have kept the proposed changes to a minimum at this time. It is my intent to revisit the status of the Commando, with a specific eye to any need for polishing racial/role skill buffs after we have had a chance to assess the effects of these proposed changes. With that in mind, I look forward to your input on the status of my proposed first step. Cheers, Cross PG/CPU is too tight. Your proposal brings a net gain of zero. One of the problems endemic to commando is that CPU/PG is the tightest of any dropsuit due to two light weapons. Light weapons range up to 5x the fitting of a sidearm. In this case for most commandos the current fits wouldn't change usefully. Example: my amarr commando must completely forgo equipment. It is level 3. Advanced weapons + 4 advanced fittings eats every bit of available fitting. Granted I dont have the light weapon fitting optimization skills and the cpu reduction skill is at 3. Even at + your proposal doesn't allow enough leeway to fit for the fifth slots. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4292	Posted - 2014.11.01 10:14:00 - [33] - Quote Not changing PG/CPU to account for yhe new slots will exacerbate the problems with commandos. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4295	Posted - 2014.11.01 11:44:00 - [34] - Quote Honestly the suits need a PG/CPU increase sufficient to fit the preferred racial regen unit in a low slot at the appropriate tier with average skills. Gallente/amarr an armor rep or another reactive. Cal/min either a regulator or recharger/energizer. I don't have the numbers in front of me. Push my agendas cross and I'll make you do less math! EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4690	Posted - 2014.11.08 14:42:00 - [35] - Quote No Cross, the commando damage bonusing needs another pass. The DPS benefit over a similar assault is right around 2% given similar damage mods setups. The Amarr Commando is of particular note in that it cannot compete with the assault AT ALL due to tge assault heat reduction. People fixate on the commando damage bonus but all it does is allow offensive parity with assaults, not offensive superiority. You see the most egregious example of this when people talk about the minmatar commando utilizing swarms. A minmatar commando with two damage mods kills with explosives at the EXACT SAME number of shots as a triple modded assault suit. The damage bar seems to move faster, TTK does not change. The amarr commando is particularly obnoxious in that it gets only one damage mod slot where the assault gets 3. The assault also gets up to 25% heat reduction. This means the commando has lower potential DPS per shot as well as suffering lower sustained fire time. The damage bonus currently provides only a placebo effect, not an actual advantage. Until this is addressed in one form or another, or the commandos have a clear operational advantage that cannot be negated by a standard assault fit then the class will not be balanced. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.

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