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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
3211
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Posted - 2014.10.02 23:09:00 -
[1] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:Specced I to Cal, Gal, and Min commandos.
First, we need to establish what commandos should do. Are they heavy assault? AV platforms? Until we give them a clear role, balancing them is moot.
(I've played around with all Commandos, heavy focus on Gallente with moderate on Minmatar. I'll avoid writing a multi-paragraph segment bragging about how many things I have trained.)
I fully agree that the Commando and Assault are largely redundant, and honestly in Legion they could combine most the bonuses/abilities into one suit and it would make a really solid role. But alas our bastard child that is the Commando exists, so we need to make due. I think it's fine that the Commando and Assault fill very similar roles, the important part is making each one fulfill a different facet of that role.
I think first we need to determine what the role of the Assault is under existing mechanics. Once we've determined that, we can see what other facets of the role the Commando could fulfill, without overly compartmentalizing the Assault role.
Assaults
Moderate-High Mobility: Well suited for closing distances and moderate flanking.
Weapon Support Bonuses: Offsets the weakness of Racial Weapons with Bonuses
Moderate Base HP-High Slot Count: Flexible yet capable of Moderate-High HP when fitted.
Medium Hitbox: Capable of relying on speed/hitbox to mitigate some incoming DPS
Weapon Fitting Bonus: Able to fit Higher tiered Light Weapons and Grenades with less cost.
So basically you have a role which is very mobile, and while not as quick as the scout, can still make use of less direct methods of getting from A to B. That is to say they are direct combat oriented, but not necessarily completely frontal assault.
They are not necessarily maximum damage dealers, as they don't actually boost the damage output of the weapon. Instead, bonuses offset negative attributes of their racial weapons, which in turn makes each weapon more flexible and viable in suboptimal situations.
In short, the Assault personifies direct but non-frontal combat, with a primary focus of flexibility and adaptability in the slaying role. Assaults are capable of putting focused DPS where it needs to go at the right time in order to get the job done cleanly.
So now what we've defined what the Assault does, let's look at some things that it doesn't do and discuss how we can tie those concepts into defining what the Commando should do.
Concepts to Consider and Discuss:
Direct Frontal Attacking (Higher Defense - Lower Mobility)
Maximum Damage Output (Bonuses to Damage)
Sustained Damage Output (Bonuses to Reload)
Quantity Over Quality (Suppression Abilities)
Less Flexible - More Focused Role (Buff Strengths of Weapons)
Additional Points of Contention:
Little Incentive to use Prototype (Only 2 additional slots) and extremely Low Slot Count in general (2/3/4) when other suits have upwards of (4/6/8). Just as a starting measure the Commando should have the same slot layout as the Sentinels.
Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
3211
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 23:10:00 -
[2] - Quote
Bahirae Serugiusu wrote:Oh I see how it is the suit that can carry two light weapons and get a damage bonus gets the attention but Assault dropsuits get no attention
*blinks* You don't really pay much attention to the hotfixes do you?
Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
3215
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 16:00:00 -
[3] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:
Let commando suits be SHOCK troops. Hit fast, hit hard, high casualty expectation. You throw commandos when taking the objective is more important than survival and ISK efficiency.
I kinda have an issue with designing a suit around the concept that they're supposed to die more often other suits.
Plus the bonuses you listed are too similar to what the Assaults have/should have.
Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
3215
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 16:43:00 -
[4] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:There is no getting around the simple fact that the amarr heat bonus is the single most usefyl bonus in the game. And the ammando loses more damage potential to overheat than anything else.
The 10% damage bonus does not at any point translate to even approaching that level of useful.
No other suit can use amarr weaponry effectively. Just the amarr assault.
Then perhaps we should decrease the natural heat buildup of Amarr weapons and decrease the Amarr bonus so the end result is the same, but Non-Assault use is still viable?
Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
3216
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 22:26:00 -
[5] - Quote
Kaeru Nayiri wrote:
Gallente commando, how about a commando that is the hard counter to ewar? This commando, when maxed and fitted correctly can see most scouts cloaked or not to share on his tacnet with his squad.
Is this not supposed to be the role of the Gallente Logistics? 
Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
3221
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 16:58:00 -
[6] - Quote
Cross Atu wrote:Fittings improvements seem like the key area that needs to be looked at from what I am 'hearing' so far.
The how of that is a bit in dispute but most seem to agree that something needs done with it.
I like the concept of standardized slot counts that Rattati put out a few months back, which in turn drove much of the Assault overhaul project. I think in general suits of the same frame should have the same slot layouts, more or less. Balancing against lack of slot just leads to boring fitting, which in turn leads to boring gameplay. Commandos have a lot of elements against them compared to Assaults...a lack of fitting options is not a disadvantage they need.
As for defenses in general, one thing about Dust that I've always wanted but have never gotten is a suit specifically designed around 'active' tanking, in that you're encouraged to fit the suit to be more focused around HP regen rather than brick tanking. The Sentinel is obviously all about boosting its HP higher with HP modules and making use of its damage resistance bonuses. What if we took it the other direction with Commandos, giving them bonuses to HP regeneration instead of simply boosting HP?
Its been mentioned in this thread already, but essentially something like...
Caldari: +% to Rechargers/Energizers
Minmatar: +% to Regulators
Gallente: +% to Armor Repairers
Amarr: +% to Reactive Plating or +% Reduction to Speed Penalty for Armor Plates
It's very similar to a concept I proposed for Assaults a while back, but as we've already determined, Assaults and Commandos are shards of the same role, so I think it would also apply well in this case.
Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
3242
|
Posted - 2014.10.13 22:42:00 -
[7] - Quote
Am not a fan of the EWAR Commando concept, feels like it's getting a little too weird. Last thing we need to do is throw more Commando-sized wrenches into the mess that is EWAR.
Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
3242
|
Posted - 2014.10.13 22:59:00 -
[8] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Am not a fan of the EWAR Commando concept, feels like it's getting a little too weird. Last thing we need to do is throw more Commando-sized wrenches into the mess that is EWAR. EWAR needs to be killed with fire, seared to ash and used to plant the new field. My wishlist for a client update (Rouge throw us a bone here) is as follows: 1: add inertia to dropsuits. 2: rebuild EWAR. That is all
Binary EWAR was a horrible idea from the start. It was passable until they made an entire role built around it, and then it was just a total shitstorm. No amount of tweaking will make EWAR acceptable in its current form.
Whole damn concept needs to be rebuilt from the ground up.
Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
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