| Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
3526
   |
Posted - 2014.09.18 22:42:00 -
[61] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Just to make one point, I tried all night to just play swarm AV. Proto swarms, not full skills, triple dmg mods.
I lost more suits than I have ever lost in a night, and I didn't kill a single dropship, nor a tank. One time I swear the ADS wagged at me as I launched the 3 death swarm, turned around and blasted away and came back to kill me.
Admittedly, not the best AVer out there, but, it's not only about not being able to kill vehicles, it's all the times I am trying to chase a double hit dropship or HAV, and get shot by any other infantry. I died 50% from not being able to defend my self against infantry, and the rest by blaster tanks or missile turret ads's.
Militia swarms being a threat is class A bs. Good. A ridiculous free suit shouldn't be able to do anything to a million isk vehicle. There is a thing called value to consider. Now, had you friends helping out or god forbid a forge gun you would have killed all of your targets. And had you played commando you would've been able to fight off infantry threats and drive away vehicle threats. Now if an ADS is flying so fast he can't be hit by swarms, he can't hit his targets on the ground either. That means without killing him, you nullified him as a threat. If you want that to feel more rewarding I recommend you change the acceleration, but not the top speed, of an ADS. That allows quick blow-throughs to outrun all swarms, as they should be able to, but doesn't allow them to escape when they've been hovering around like jackasses because they won't be able to accelerate to that top speed fast enough. Just don't use a free suit and expect value, because you deserve none.
1) He was using PRO Swarms with 3x Damage Mods, he is toting the best AV weaponry available, not accounting for his skill (no offence - R), he should have at least made 1 kill against a vehicle over a nights worth of public matches.
2) So let me see if I understand this.
A MLT Frontline Dropsuit kiling a PRO Dropsuit - Fine (0:120,000)
A MLT Tank killing multiple PRO Dropsuits - Fine (70,000:5,000,000)
A MLT Swarm being barely a threat - God Forbid
3) Yes when you starting bringing up value you have to remember the value of the AV suits used against you too. My current Assault AV fitting at 65,000 ISK (ADV) is onlt good for ONE vehicle, if I'm successful in destroying a vehicle I must then FIGHT my way back to a suply depot so that I have enoigh munitions to take on another.
On average an AVer will die 3-4 for each vehicle he suppresses/kills, he can't engage the tank with a reckless regard for his own well being, he would be too ineffective. Chances are as you roll in in a tank , your tagged. But the AVer has to ensure he will do enough damage to kill.
4) Commandos make poor AV units, they lack many required traits that make other suits desirable for AV duties, he also receives no eHP bonuses over most medium suits and lacks the versatility required.
Commandos are a Jack of all trades class much more so than the Assault.
5) Finally mlt tank, mlt AV, why is one allowed to be as equally powerful as it's skilled variation but the other not?
They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank!
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
|
Atiim
12268
|
Posted - 2014.09.18 23:22:00 -
[62] - Quote
THUNDERGROOVE wrote:
Actually they aren't.
Yes, yes they are. CCP Rattati himself looked at the speed of the ADS and the Swarm Launcher, and noted that the ADS's top speed is faster. In fact, he himself said that the ADS is faster within this very thread.
THUNDERGROOVE wrote:What is happening is pilots who know what they are doing can fly in such a way to force the swarms to have to turn which slows them down. Generally this involves flipping backwards or turning on your side at very sharp angles often times I have to do this twice just to completely escape them.
That's not what's happening at all. I've tested with my very own Python, and I can confirm that Swarm Launchers can be evaded by simply flying in a straight line. In fact, Derrith Erador (highly experienced DS pilot, and a member of your corporation) himself confirmed that they can be out-run by flying in a straight line.
Though if you're up for loosing some hard earned ISK, I'd be happy to make a wager.
THUNDERGROOVE wrote:If an ADS flies straight up, the swarms will hit every single time unless they are so far away that they escape the flight range of the swarms in which case that's the swarmers bad call.
This is only true if the volley is fired from 0m of the ADS, which is the equivalent of begin parked.
THUNDERGROOVE wrote:Plus I'd argue that doing an evasive maneuver is a hell of a lot more difficult than:
Fire and forget
Fire and forget implies that you can fire your weapon, without having to worry about where the projectile travels. Given that the Swarm Launcher AI flies to where the target was as opposed to where it currently is, along with it's tendency to crash into obstacles, this is indeed false.
Unless of course, the target is standing perfectly still/parked. In which case, any Anti-Vehicle weapon (barring PLCs) would take 0 skill to use, as you're simply holding R1. Though I find the notion that SLs shouldn't be viable simply because of their ease of use* laughable considering how most (actually all) weapons that are currently competitive have AA, which removes the need to aim.
As for my asterisk, I would agree that fighting someone who's AFK or incompetent is indeed easy, but this is true for all weapons. Fighting someone with experience however, is not as you:
- Have to predict the Pilot's travel path
- Have to predict how long to delay the SL's travel, allowing for high Alpha Damage.
- Have to position yourself in a way that allows you to combat Pilots without being threatend by Infantry
- Have to time your shots, or risk them being repaired through.
- etc, etc, etc.
What should be questioned however, is the difficulty of sitting on a tower a good 200m away with enough Nanohives to be seen from space, while dealing so much damage that none barring the best of ADS Pilots or a Warbarge Stirke can remove you. If that's not considered EZ-Mode, then I don't know what is.
THUNDERGROOVE wrote:If anything just tone down the ridiculous RoF bonus and possibly skill stacking, ideally giving the gunner the best bonus. If the pilot has 4 and the gunner has 5, give them level 5.
Deritth mentioned that Zatara and other CPM members are pushing for the RoF to be reduced. However, this would not solve the SL's inefficiency against ADSs.
The biggest problem is so few people have been in a dropship and swarmed them. Heck, half of every PC I play I'm FG duty.
I've been Swarmed at Dropships several times over. Surviving them is beyond easy, even when I can't see them. The only time when they're actually anything more than insignificant is when I'm hovering in the city near a tower
Swarms are as effective as they should be for the type of weapon it is.
Anti-Armor (Explosive); Anti-Vehicle
For a type of weapon specifically designed to destroy vehicles, and be extremely effective against Armored Units, I'd say it's under-performing against Assault Dropships.
I mean, it really requires almost no skill apart from decent positioning.
+1 for creating a perfect synopsis on the Forge Gun and it's operation.
and considering I still can't see where I'm getting swarmed from because they still don't render from anywhere past 100 meters.
Rendering issues are not valid reasons to keep a weapon from underperforming against it's counter.
The 1st Matari Commando
-HAND
|
maluble
Vherokior Combat Logistics
Minmatar Republic
73
|
Posted - 2014.09.18 23:42:00 -
[63] - Quote
TH1EFOFSOuLS wrote:Vegetation Monster wrote:Rattati nerfs ADS because apparently the Skilled ADS pilots were too hard for lock on swarm users to kill. What is happening? Is COD getting to CCP's head?
It is sad to see dust reward skill-less players more than the ones with the skill.
Probably going to get banned because on these forums you are not allowed to express opinion or say even a minor bad thing about CCP. See y'all in Destiny!! WOO!!
At least Destiny isn't made by blind brainless apes. (Not specifically pointing at CCP). I know its pathetic man ive been feeling your pain for a while man, and how could this all be fixed? Making these COD tryhards understand nothing kills tanks or dropships better than a tank or a dropship. But I almost always forget they don't want to spec into their own tank or dropship they want easy mode AV and run off to a supply depot one the threat is taken care of an imedetly go back to proto stomping the majority of players that consist of lower than 5mil SP. (my guess is about 60%) from all my time playing
Or they just dont want to be the scrub who is to scared to weild a rifle in a fps game, shouldnt have to resort to being a vehicle scrub to take out other vehicle scrubs. |
Nothing Certain
Bioshock Rejects
1137
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 01:32:00 -
[64] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Just to make one point, I tried all night to just play swarm AV. Proto swarms, not full skills, triple dmg mods.
I lost more suits than I have ever lost in a night, and I didn't kill a single dropship, nor a tank. One time I swear the ADS wagged at me as I launched the 3 death swarm, turned around and blasted away and came back to kill me.
Admittedly, not the best AVer out there, but, it's not only about not being able to kill vehicles, it's all the times I am trying to chase a double hit dropship or HAV, and get shot by any other infantry. I died 50% from not being able to defend my self against infantry, and the rest by blaster tanks or missile turret ads's.
Militia swarms being a threat is class A bs.
I have to admit that picturing this gave me a chuckle. I run an ADV Minassault, protoswarm no dmg mods. I run an ASMG w/CPX dmg instead. I kill lots of tanks, I usually feel it is a fair matchup, they also kill me a lot. Dropships are a bit too easy to kill, except Pythons. You can't kill a Python even doing everything right, he has to do something wrong. The frustration is getting them with a sliver of life left, on fire, and they just fly away and come back fully healed right away. Two or three runs and I have no choice but to dance on hives trying to reload while he is shooting at me.
I hear people recommend Commando, Mincommando especially, for swarming. I have an alt. fit for this but don't like it. Yes, I hit harder but I lose too much speed and mobility and most of all grenades. A tank or an LAV can see you swarm, drive up to you well before you can seriously hurt him, and then blast you or hop out with an HMG. The ASMG lets me win a few of those but the grenades are my only chance of getting the vehicle kill and probably that is how I get most of them. No grenades, no kill.
Because, that's why.
|
Zindorak
1.U.P
916
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 01:34:00 -
[65] - Quote
Bahirae Serugiusu wrote:Zindorak wrote:There's a thing called a Forge Gun learn how to use it  Forge guns don't take enough skills. He wants the weapons that take the most skill to do the most damage then Plasma Cannon should be 1 hit kill on ADS buy a militia plasma cannon and try it out in a match and see how well you do compared to whatever you usually use. The projectile is slow, insanely visible, barely any splash damage, hit detection with it sucks, and it drops like crazy and you have to reload for a long time after each shot.
Igf it worksthis way then Swarms would do the least amount of damage. I like that
Pokemon master!
I suck at Tekken lol
|
Mobius Kaethis
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1819
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 04:39:00 -
[66] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Value based balancing is utter crap.
By that logic anyone who is facing my proto sents has no business being anything more than a slight distraction and free warpoints.
Except for my proto-logi which should find your proto-sentinel to be a slighly annoying gnat. Balancing based upon isk value of fits would result in logis being gods.
Now with more evil.
|
Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2120
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 04:43:00 -
[67] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:ADS are faster than swarms.
They're not. Have you flown an ADS? I do. They catch up.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
|
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
2844
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 06:39:00 -
[68] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:THUNDERGROOVE wrote:
Swarms are as effective as they should be for the type of weapon it is. I mean, it really requires almost no skill ...
Which is why we've decided to nerf the HMG. Looking back, we probably should've designed it differently; we didn't realize it'd be so easy to use and so powerful. Oh well! - CCP Wow that was weaker than the ADS whining. 1/10 New HMG Design Goals:Teamwork!The new HMG is all about squad play! Focused fire from two will suffice to kill almost any infantry. Individually it will be good at laying down suppressing fire, not unlike a Heavy Machine Gun! We expect Sentinels to find satisfaction in knowing they're keeping the enemy away. Fairness!Many infantry have expressed concerns about HMG range, so we'll be reducing it by three quarters. We'll also be reducing magazine size by 40% in exchange for faster HMG spool up time! So you can get to suppressing faster! Easy!We understand that these are big changes and that Heavies don't have many anti-infantry options. But don't feel bad! Its so easy use!
I know that Adipem, but that's an old wound. QUIT PICKING AT IT!!! |
Thumb Green
Raymond James Corp
1516
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 06:49:00 -
[69] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Joel II X wrote:ADS are faster than swarms. They're not. Have you flown an ADS? I do. They catch up.
ADS are faster than swarms.
We don't kick ass, we kick dick and we kick it hard.
Join us in our Pumpkin Crushing
|
|
CCP Rattati
C C P
C C P Alliance
7464
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 06:55:00 -
[70] - Quote
Nothing Certain wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Just to make one point, I tried all night to just play swarm AV. Proto swarms, not full skills, triple dmg mods.
I lost more suits than I have ever lost in a night, and I didn't kill a single dropship, nor a tank. One time I swear the ADS wagged at me as I launched the 3 death swarm, turned around and blasted away and came back to kill me.
Admittedly, not the best AVer out there, but, it's not only about not being able to kill vehicles, it's all the times I am trying to chase a double hit dropship or HAV, and get shot by any other infantry. I died 50% from not being able to defend my self against infantry, and the rest by blaster tanks or missile turret ads's.
Militia swarms being a threat is class A bs. I have to admit that picturing this gave me a chuckle. I run an ADV Minassault, protoswarm no dmg mods. I run an ASMG w/CPX dmg instead. I kill lots of tanks, I usually feel it is a fair matchup, they also kill me a lot. Dropships are a bit too easy to kill, except Pythons. You can't kill a Python even doing everything right, he has to do something wrong. The frustration is getting them with a sliver of life left, on fire, and they just fly away and come back fully healed right away. Two or three runs and I have no choice but to dance on hives trying to reload while he is shooting at me. I hear people recommend Commando, Mincommando especially, for swarming. I have an alt. fit for this but don't like it. Yes, I hit harder but I lose too much speed and mobility and most of all grenades. A tank or an LAV can see you swarm, drive up to you well before you can seriously hurt him, and then blast you or hop out with an HMG. The ASMG lets me win a few of those but the grenades are my only chance of getting the vehicle kill and probably that is how I get most of them. No grenades, no kill.
Agreed, Assault is probably the most efficient swarm hunter for me. Maybe an Amarr logi with a sidearm, hives and AV grenades but I don't have a single SP in Amarr and am not going to. My swarm/plc galmando was not good enough w/o grenades and slow, and no AV grenades. A tank hit by 2 swarms may get greedy and come after you and then you pop with grenades.
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
|
|
|
|
Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
3528
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 09:24:00 -
[71] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Joel II X wrote:ADS are faster than swarms. They're not. Have you flown an ADS? I do. They catch up.
Extra Extra! Dev is wrong because Spkr4thedead says so.
Unrelated Article: Community suggests Spkr4thedead should learn to read.
CCP Rattati wrote:ADS has a faster top speed than Swarms, fact
They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank!
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
|
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
2844
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 09:53:00 -
[72] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:
Agreed, Assault is probably the most efficient swarm hunter for me. Maybe an Amarr logi with a sidearm, hives and AV grenades but I don't have a single SP in Amarr and am not going to. My swarm/plc galmando was not good enough w/o grenades and slow, and no AV grenades. A tank hit by 2 swarms may get greedy and come after you and then you pop with grenades.
this is why I run all of the sentinels and commandos. You get eight flavors of a**hole, six of which are functional AV platforms (albeit barely in the case of the Galmando).
I've noticed that forge guns are the only truly viable ADS hunting tool for infantry, period. I killed a python with a plasma cannon once, but that was because the first shot tagged the engines and the second Hail Mary shot connected. I have never been able to duplicate the feat.
Im laughing my ass off at all of the recent vehicle driver posts claiming that infantry should not be able to kill their pet IWIN butans.
By the way, what is the diminishing return formula on modules? And do they stack so that two -20 means a -40% change or is it multiplicative, meaning I have to multiply by .8 twice? |
dzizur
6 dayz
99
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 10:18:00 -
[73] - Quote
As for problems with infantry when doing AV work - try using a scout with a cloak. when you get spotted (either by the vehicle or infantry) just cloak and run.
Speed tanking is also a good idea when trying to sneak on those armor tanks (shield ones are easy when using fluxes).
But the most important thing when fighting ADS and DS, fire the first volley AWAY!!! from the vehicle, this way the second volley that you fire directly will hit almost the same time as the first, giving the pilot less time to react, and netting you 75 wp almost every time.
Apart from that, IMO it's true that it's nearly impossible to kill a skilled python pilot alone with swarms (especially if he knows how to fit his ADS), but on the other hand they are a great way to boost your WP. |
Bright Cloud
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
312
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 10:50:00 -
[74] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Nothing Certain wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Just to make one point, I tried all night to just play swarm AV. Proto swarms, not full skills, triple dmg mods.
I lost more suits than I have ever lost in a night, and I didn't kill a single dropship, nor a tank. One time I swear the ADS wagged at me as I launched the 3 death swarm, turned around and blasted away and came back to kill me.
Admittedly, not the best AVer out there, but, it's not only about not being able to kill vehicles, it's all the times I am trying to chase a double hit dropship or HAV, and get shot by any other infantry. I died 50% from not being able to defend my self against infantry, and the rest by blaster tanks or missile turret ads's.
Militia swarms being a threat is class A bs. I have to admit that picturing this gave me a chuckle. I run an ADV Minassault, protoswarm no dmg mods. I run an ASMG w/CPX dmg instead. I kill lots of tanks, I usually feel it is a fair matchup, they also kill me a lot. Dropships are a bit too easy to kill, except Pythons. You can't kill a Python even doing everything right, he has to do something wrong. The frustration is getting them with a sliver of life left, on fire, and they just fly away and come back fully healed right away. Two or three runs and I have no choice but to dance on hives trying to reload while he is shooting at me. I hear people recommend Commando, Mincommando especially, for swarming. I have an alt. fit for this but don't like it. Yes, I hit harder but I lose too much speed and mobility and most of all grenades. A tank or an LAV can see you swarm, drive up to you well before you can seriously hurt him, and then blast you or hop out with an HMG. The ASMG lets me win a few of those but the grenades are my only chance of getting the vehicle kill and probably that is how I get most of them. No grenades, no kill. Agreed, Assault is probably the most efficient swarm hunter for me. Maybe an Amarr logi with a sidearm, hives and AV grenades but I don't have a single SP in Amarr and am not going to. My swarm/plc galmando was not good enough w/o grenades and slow, and no AV grenades. A tank hit by 2 swarms may get greedy and come after you and then you pop with grenades.
Assault or logi as swarm plattform? Thats lolworthy at best cause when you go AV you want to avoid infantry at all cost. You should run a scout with a cloak, nanohive and a swarm launcher. Thing is you can decloak when the ADS is not looking at you and start firing swarms into it. When it gets away just reload your swarm and use your cloak again. The ADS will have no way to spot you and you can repeat this without loosing suits. You can argue about a commando caus it can defend itself but the downside is every 1 can see you. The dropship can, the infantry can and as soon you fire swarms it attracts huge attention from infantry.
Bright is the opposite of dark! Who would have thought of that?!
|
NAV HIV
The Generals
2132
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 13:50:00 -
[75] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Just to make one point, I tried all night to just play swarm AV. Proto swarms, not full skills, triple dmg mods.
I lost more suits than I have ever lost in a night, and I didn't kill a single dropship, nor a tank. One time I swear the ADS wagged at me as I launched the 3 death swarm, turned around and blasted away and came back to kill me.
Admittedly, not the best AVer out there, but, it's not only about not being able to kill vehicles, it's all the times I am trying to chase a double hit dropship or HAV, and get shot by any other infantry. I died 50% from not being able to defend my self against infantry, and the rest by blaster tanks or missile turret ads's.
Militia swarms being a threat is class A bs.
Thank you... I must say, you have a New Fan :)
I have Prof 5 Swarm and I use Damage Modded Wyrkomi on my Commando ck0... (I dont have minmando because i don't like any Min Suits, just a Cal Loyalty) I have RR as a Second weapon, since it gives me Bonus damage... I killed two SOMAs so far with that suit and few LAVs... And the Cost of that suit can be very high for new players or players without a lot of ISK... A MLT Heavy + MLT Forge is More effective than that...
Honestly, my Madrugar + Blaster/Rail Costs less than My scout ck0 |
Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
107
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 14:19:00 -
[76] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Just to make one point, I tried all night to just play swarm AV. Proto swarms, not full skills, triple dmg mods.
I lost more suits than I have ever lost in a night, and I didn't kill a single dropship, nor a tank. One time I swear the ADS wagged at me as I launched the 3 death swarm, turned around and blasted away and came back to kill me.
Admittedly, not the best AVer out there, but, it's not only about not being able to kill vehicles, it's all the times I am trying to chase a double hit dropship or HAV, and get shot by any other infantry. I died 50% from not being able to defend my self against infantry, and the rest by blaster tanks or missile turret ads's.
Militia swarms being a threat is class A bs.
So nice, I wish I could like it twice.
I seriously was just browsing, you made me log in 
"Tossin uplinks and runnin fer my life" ~ Gunny blownapart
"Lets group up and push an objective" ~ No blueberry ever
|
Snake Sellors
Hellstorm Inc
General Tso's Alliance
483
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 14:33:00 -
[77] - Quote
Vegetation Monster wrote:Snake Sellors wrote:Foundation Seldon wrote:People in this thread are obviously underestimating the skill it takes to activate an afterburner, get out of dodge in 4-5 seconds, and come back to the same spot moments later fully healed and with your afterburner immediately out of cooldown.
When will AV learn that I'm entitled to murder any and everyone from the sky because so many skill points such skill wow. The problem is this.^ an ads pilot will post and complain about how powerful they are, how they should be "area denial weapons" and they should not be able to destroy an ads single handed... but yet for all that noise they will circle back to the same person, over and over and over: they know that if the first volley didn't kill them none of the others will either. they are not even doing area denial if the ads pilot does not feel the need to avoid a player that they know has swarms. there is literally no sense in approaching a genuine threat over and over again, therefore they are not a threat. as for people wanting av to destroy ads as an easy option.. a.v as in anti vehicle.. the ability for a single person to destroy vehicles has been around almost as long as vehicles in war have.. ww2. carrying swarms is not such an easy option, it leaves most players with only the option of using the sidearm against infantry. glad to see that rattati has tried to swarm for a whole night to get an unbiased view. You guys act like Sidearms don't do the job well. SMG is like one of the most powerful guns our there. Learn to use it. Also, if you are more skillful use ScP. It rewards you more.
Lol. Yes sure it compares really well to a rail rifle at range and outperforms hmgs and shotguns at closer ranges. I completely forgot that smgs are totally more powerful than light weapons and that they out range all of the rifles people use and that they are-áthe best way to play dust.
Y'know with two smgs in fact you don't even need swarms let's just sway those pesky ads down with those.
|
Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
4997
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 14:45:00 -
[78] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:
Easy!
We understand that these are big nerfs and that Heavies don't have many anti-infantry options. But don't feel bad! The HMG is easy use!
I know that Adipem, but that's an old wound. QUIT PICKING AT IT!!!
Roger that. My point is that double standards are no bueno.
A number of Pilots have conceded that Swarms are crap but immediately follow the thought with "... they're easy to use so they're supposed to be crap." This ease-of-use standard isn't applied to any other item in the game, yet Pilots point to it as justification for doing nothing to fix ineffective Swarms.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
|
Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
783
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 15:47:00 -
[79] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:i was going for ultimate max dmg to "prove a point"
Which you obviously were not doing, since a PRO MinCom has 2 highs...
Snake Sellors wrote:glad to see that rattati has tried to swarm for a whole night to get an unbiased view.
I look forward to seeing Rattati piloting to see what it's like from our POV. Y'know, s it's actually unbiased and not entirely biased by focusing on only one side of the argument.
Alt of Halla Murr.
|
|
CCP Rattati
C C P
C C P Alliance
7501
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 15:51:00 -
[80] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:i was going for ultimate max dmg to "prove a point" Which you obviously were not doing, since a PRO MinCom has 2 highs... Snake Sellors wrote:glad to see that rattati has tried to swarm for a whole night to get an unbiased view. I look forward to seeing Rattati piloting to see what it's like from our POV. Y'know, s it's actually unbiased and not entirely biased by focusing on only one side of the argument.
I was making sure my math wasn't wrong.
It wasn't.
I don't need to do anything else.
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
|
|
|
|
Jack 3enimble
Vengeance Unbound
Dark Taboo
391
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 16:38:00 -
[81] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Kallas Hallytyr wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:i was going for ultimate max dmg to "prove a point" Which you obviously were not doing, since a PRO MinCom has 2 highs... Snake Sellors wrote:glad to see that rattati has tried to swarm for a whole night to get an unbiased view. I look forward to seeing Rattati piloting to see what it's like from our POV. Y'know, s it's actually unbiased and not entirely biased by focusing on only one side of the argument. I was making sure my math wasn't wrong. It wasn't. I don't need to do anything else.
GG Rattati. People need to realise that taking jabs at the one Dev that actually makes the game better isn't the way to go.
As for the people who pilot (the true ones you know, like in pc). You all know that 2 ADS can dominate a game, plain and simple.
Although I respect ADS pilots for their skill , 2 ADS should not dominate a whole match. keep it real.
Dumbasses |
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
2861
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 16:39:00 -
[82] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:
I look forward to seeing Rattati piloting to see what it's like from our POV. Y'know, s it's actually unbiased and not entirely biased by focusing on only one side of the argument.
What,so he can spend a whole night training himself to pull the lunatic flight escape tricks while getting pasted left and right? Yes that will TOTALLY give a fair and unbiased view of vehicles.
New dropship pilots are flying money sinks for about a month before it fully clicks. |
Demandred Moores
Ghosts of Dawn
General Tso's Alliance
21
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 16:52:00 -
[83] - Quote
Tell me, why should you're 2k swarms be able to do anymore than detour my 1m dropship? |
Justin Tymes
Dem Durrty Boyz
General Tso's Alliance
757
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 17:05:00 -
[84] - Quote
Demandred Moores wrote:Tell me, why should you're 2k swarms be able to do anymore than detour my 1m dropship?
Why should my 250k+ Logisuit be melted by Militia and Standard Rifles under 1k? |
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
2861
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 17:07:00 -
[85] - Quote
Demandred Moores wrote:Tell me, why should you're 2k swarms be able to do anymore than detour my 1m dropship?
You mean the 130-150k dropsuit that has swarms on it?
Heres a reason: more ISK spent shouldn't automatically mean invincibility.
And the only swarms that cost 2k (actually 1500) are standard. Proto (which rattati was using) start at right around 50k. And if you're gonna pull THAT BS card, why does your 50k small missile turret do more than tickle my 150,000 ISK dropsuit?
Seriously, thats the argument that you are using. It's freaking childish. |
Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
784
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 17:10:00 -
[86] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:I don't need to do anything else.
Fine. Didn't say that you had to. But I love that you're willing to test Swarms but unwilling to test ADSs.
Jack 3enimble wrote:GG Rattati. People need to realise that taking jabs at the one Dev that actually makes the game better isn't the way to go.
As for the people who pilot (the true ones you know, like in pc). You all know that 2 ADS can dominate a game, plain and simple.
Although I respect ADS pilots for their skill , 2 ADS should not dominate a whole match. keep it real.
Dumbasses
Not jabbing him, though I am exasperated by the disparity between the willingness to test various approaches to the game. ADSs are as much a part of the game as Swarms: why does flying an ADS to better understand that side's point of view not constitute as much value as testing Swarms against said ADSs?
If both sides are to coexist, why does one take priority? Swarms definitely do not hold all of the cards, but they have some substantial advantages that should not be dismissed.
ADSs are too effective: most ADS pilots would agree. Most would argue against AV buffs, primarily because of experience fighting against them so much. There actually have been suggestions for altering ADS power balance - Numnutz brought up the idea of reducing missile damage, increasing clip size to normalise the damage and possibly tweaking ROF.
But no, let's focus on the ADS pilots not wanting AV buffed too much, and utterly ignore any suggestions that have been brought up...which is usually what happens.
Breakin Stuff wrote:What,so he can spend a whole night training himself to pull the lunatic flight escape tricks while getting pasted left and right? Yes that will TOTALLY give a fair and unbiased view of vehicles.
New dropship pilots are flying money sinks for about a month before it fully clicks.
Yeah, essentially. I offered every ISK/Dropship I have to give Rattati an ISK buffer such that he can experience what we have to do in the air. In doing so, I had hope it would provide greater insight into the ADS/Swarm/Forge balance, considering he is the Dev in charge.
But apparently wanting a balanced view on the situation is wanting to maintain the status quo, keep my oh-so-sustainable murder machine that can never die.
Buff away. I'll still fly, just like I did pre-1.7. I would just rather have a balanced approach rather than ramping up each side until we need to do the same again to the other/tear down what we did.
Alt of Halla Murr.
|
Demandred Moores
Ghosts of Dawn
General Tso's Alliance
21
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 17:12:00 -
[87] - Quote
My bad on a phone I meant 20k. And the amount of sp spent? And the skill it took to learn how to fly? As apposed to proto in one gun and auto lock? |
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
2861
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 17:13:00 -
[88] - Quote
How is making it so missiles can actually catch a dropship unfair?
Besides the plasma cannon projectile speed increase THERE ARE NO OTHER AV BUFFS IN THE WORKS.
Being able to outrun a missile is idiotic. Especially when the missile ability to pull a 180 degree turn instantly is going away. |
Demandred Moores
Ghosts of Dawn
General Tso's Alliance
21
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 17:30:00 -
[89] - Quote
I will have a sct so far up your proto swarming *** so fast if it makes my fully proto'd Derp drop you'll regret shooting it down. So whatever 7 proto roles ftw. |
Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
784
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 17:37:00 -
[90] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:How is making it so missiles can actually catch a dropship unfair?
Besides the plasma cannon projectile speed increase THERE ARE NO OTHER AV BUFFS IN THE WORKS.
Being able to outrun a missile is idiotic. Especially when the missile ability to pull a 180 degree turn instantly is going away.
Well, I actually don't think the current proposal is terrible, but there is a great bias towards the Swarms present in every discussion about ADS/AV balance which I wouikd really like to see be balanced out by having the dev responsible having actual experience own ADS.
Alt of Halla Murr.
|
|
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |