Well, I actually don't think the current proposal is terrible, but there is a great bias towards the Swarms present in every discussion about ADS/AV balance which I wouikd really like to see be balanced out by having the dev responsible having actual experience own ADS.

[quote=CCP Rattati]
By the way, what is the diminishing return formula on modules? And do they stack so that two -20 means a -40% change or is it multiplicative, meaning I have to multiply by .8 twice?

Just to make one point, I tried all night to just play swarm AV. Proto swarms, not full skills, triple dmg mods.

I lost more suits than I have ever lost in a night, and I didn't kill a single dropship, nor a tank. One time I swear the ADS wagged at me as I launched the 3 death swarm, turned around and blasted away and came back to kill me.

Admittedly, not the best AVer out there, but, it's not only about not being able to kill vehicles, it's all the times I am trying to chase a double hit dropship or HAV, and get shot by any other infantry. I died 50% from not being able to defend my self against infantry, and the rest by blaster tanks or missile turret ads's.

Militia swarms being a threat is class A bs.

I was making sure my math wasn't wrong.

It wasn't.

I don't need to do anything else.

How is making it so missiles can actually catch a dropship unfair?

Besides the plasma cannon projectile speed increase THERE ARE NO OTHER AV BUFFS IN THE WORKS.

Being able to outrun a missile is idiotic. Especially when the missile ability to pull a 180 degree turn instantly is going away.

Rattati, I triple dog dare you to go fly ADS's. Make sure you only put in about the same Sp you put into swarm suit. Try to kill at least 5 protos in a match.

If you do take this challange CCP Rattati, get your RoF skills to 3 and it'll be trivial.

Remember he can only spend = amount of sp that he spent on the AV fit. He's a dev. He has unlimited Sp right?

With that amount of SP it would be easy.

You seem to be under the assumtion that getting 5 kills with an ADS is difficult.

1) He was using PRO Swarms with 3x Damage Mods, he is toting the best AV weaponry available, not accounting for his skill (no offence - R), he should have at least made 1 kill against a vehicle over a nights worth of public matches.

2) So let me see if I understand this.
A MLT Frontline Dropsuit kiling a PRO Dropsuit - Fine (0:120,000)
A MLT Tank killing multiple PRO Dropsuits - Fine (70,000:5,000,000)
A MLT Swarm being barely a threat - God Forbid

3) Yes when you starting bringing up value you have to remember the value of the AV suits used against you too. My current Assault AV fitting at 65,000 ISK (ADV) is onlt good for ONE vehicle, if I'm successful in destroying a vehicle I must then FIGHT my way back to a suply depot so that I have enoigh munitions to take on another.

On average an AVer will die 3-4 for each vehicle he suppresses/kills, he can't engage the tank with a reckless regard for his own well being, he would be too ineffective. Chances are as you roll in in a tank , your tagged. But the AVer has to ensure he will do enough damage to kill.

4) Commandos make poor AV units, they lack many required traits that make other suits desirable for AV duties, he also receives no eHP bonuses over most medium suits and lacks the versatility required.

Commandos are a Jack of all trades class much more so than the Assault.

5) Finally mlt tank, mlt AV, why is one allowed to be as equally powerful as it's skilled variation but the other not?

Just to make one point, I tried all night to just play swarm AV. Proto swarms, not full skills, triple dmg mods.

I lost more suits than I have ever lost in a night, and I didn't kill a single dropship, nor a tank. One time I swear the ADS wagged at me as I launched the 3 death swarm, turned around and blasted away and came back to kill me.

Admittedly, not the best AVer out there, but, it's not only about not being able to kill vehicles, it's all the times I am trying to chase a double hit dropship or HAV, and get shot by any other infantry. I died 50% from not being able to defend my self against infantry, and the rest by blaster tanks or missile turret ads's.

Militia swarms being a threat is class A bs.

Rattati nerfs ADS because apparently the Skilled ADS pilots were too hard for lock on swarm users to kill. What is happening? Is COD getting to CCP's head?

It is sad to see dust reward skill-less players more than the ones with the skill.


Probably going to get banned because on these forums you are not allowed to express opinion or say even a minor bad thing about CCP. See y'all in Destiny!! WOO!!


At least Destiny isn't made by blind brainless apes. (Not specifically pointing at CCP).

I feel like I need to do a stream and show you how its done properly.

Please do! And do it VERY fast before every swarm user comes and slaps you with a ******* trout for your incredible stupidness.

And throw a proto Minmatar commando in the mix as well if you have one.

This has got to be the most boldest claim I've ever heard in the forums. Live up to it.

EDIT:

Ok I saw your 'report'. Still waiting for the video. Still waiting to see how you kill ADSs' with a swarms reliably.
Oh wait you are not supposed to kill dropships with swarms, only chase them away?

Just to make one point, I tried all night to just play swarm AV. Proto swarms, not full skills, triple dmg mods.

I lost more suits than I have ever lost in a night, and I didn't kill a single dropship, nor a tank. One time I swear the ADS wagged at me as I launched the 3 death swarm, turned around and blasted away and came back to kill me.

Admittedly, not the best AVer out there, but, it's not only about not being able to kill vehicles, it's all the times I am trying to chase a double hit dropship or HAV, and get shot by any other infantry. I died 50% from not being able to defend my self against infantry, and the rest by blaster tanks or missile turret ads's.

Militia swarms being a threat is class A bs.

edit: ..and just one thing to add - if players was chose to every match in way that allow for balance fight we wouldn't have balancing problems. Each time ADS pilot is getting to battle he should get decent AV in opposite team.

Not agreeing with this topic... But swarms and ads have the same top speed. Swarms also have better acceleration than the ads, only the afterburner allows the ads to reach it's top speed quicker.

fact is you can never pull away from swarms, only outlast them if going quicker... They also follow your exact flight path so they don't hit walls unless fired at one by a moron (like me.)

The only way I can outrun a swarm with my ads (no afterburner) is on a map with a big ass cliff that gives me room to pretty much fall for a good few seconds without hitting the floor, gives enough speed to stay ahead of the swarm if it was fired from a good distance.

So yeah, the afterburner is the main reason for this argument, but everyone shat on ads because they don't like getting popped by missiles when there's no av about.

However if the turn speed nerf on swarms is enough to actually allow me to fly behind cover without getting blown into it after the swarm does a nice instant 90 degree turn at the corner of a building, then I'm happy either way.



I had to lol... holding a rep tool and spamming uplinks/hives is difficult how?

yeah beacuse swarms look like a rail weapon to me too. Use a min commando if you want a swarm bonus.