DUST Search - Assault bonuses

All Channels

Feedback/Requests

Assault bonuses

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 4 :: [one page]

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 16809	Posted - 2014.08.12 22:55:00 - [1] - Quote In Hotfix Charlie the problems with the base assault suits are being addressed quite thoroughly. However, a major part of the assault role is the bonus provided by the suit. Historically, the Amarr assault has remained useful despite the subpar suit because of its useful bonus. The Minmatar also received an equally solid bonus in 1.8. The Caldari and Gallente assaults are a different story, I feel. I feel that the recoil and dispersion bonuses are negligible on the Galassault, and the reload bonus is minor at best on the Calassault. Both the Amarr and Minmatar assaults have unique bonuses which provide a solid incentive to spec those suits and a significant power boost for the relevant weapon. Neither the Caldari nor the Gallente get bonuses quite on par with those. Neither bonus is unique (both can be provided through speccing through the skill tree for that weapon) and both of them have comparatively little effect. Recoil in the plasma class is nonexistent unless you look at the TAR, in which case the reduction is almost unnoticeable. Hipfire reduction is likewise difficult to notice and not particularly useful as most plasma weapons either have strong hipfire or it unerring accuracy (plasma cannon). Look at it this way: Assault rifles - Do not benefit with the exception of the TAR, which receives a minor benefit Shotguns - Do not benefit. Despite the reticule, shots are centred anyway. Plasma cannon - Zero effect. The Caldari bonus is likewise pretty useless. It's basically a sub-par version of the commando bonus on the class that needs to reload the least (longest firing times per clip). There are a few possible bonuses I would suggest. For the Caldari, one bonus might be charge time reduction. This would certainly be unique and potentially useful - but it'd have to be quite a strong effect (perhaps even 50-75%) to really be worth using. Unfortunately that might have the side-effect of the suit massively buffing the charge sniper rifle, so I'd suggest the bonus not effect that. Much like the Amarr/Minmatar bonuses, this provides a strong compensation for the race's main weakness. The Amarr assault provides a reduction to overheat, the main weakness of the laser weaponry. The Minmatar assault provides an increase in clip size, the main weakness of projectile weaponry. Under this model, the Caldari assault would provide a reduction in charge time, the main weakness of rail weaponry. The Gallente assault bonus is a little more difficult. Other than a flat damage bonus or something marginal, there's not really anything that would affect all three plasma weapons, mostly because the plasma cannon is so different in function. I think it's easier to consider bonuses for it if the plasma cannon is ignored. I have two suggestions for the Galassault bonus. Suggestion 1: A RoF increase. A popular idea on the forums is a 2% per level increase in RoF. This translates to a decent increase in DPS, which would augment the function of the AR, it being a CQC rifle designed to do a large amount of damage at short range. The benefits are most obvious for the assault rifle (perhaps excluding the TAR) but the shotgun also benefits. The shotgun proficiency skill was previously (unusually) a rate of fire bonus. Shotgun users felt this was a useful proficiency. Suggestion 2: A range increase. This sounds a little more unorthodox. Let me explain where I'm coming from. The reasoning behind this is for it to be much the same as the other bonuses. The Amarr weakness is overheat. The Minmatar weakness is a short clip. The Caldari weakness is charge time. All of these would be compensated for by the assault bonuses, if this change were to go through. The Gallente weakness is range. Hence, a range bonus on the assault would offset that. Do note that the bonused AR wouldn't disrupt the normal range distribution much even if the bonus was 25%. With a ~40m optimal, a 25% bonus would still not allow it to exceed the ~55m optimal of the combat rifle, but it would be a useful aid. The shotgun is never going to outrange anything, but would benefit, especially the breach shotgun. The breach is a variant which has really fallen by the wayside lately, but having it be useful at perhaps even a 9m range would give it a little life support. Suggestion 2 is probably likely to prove unpopular, but failing that I would like to see suggestion 1. The Calassault bonus is really just terrible, unfortunately, and something really ought to be done about it. Thoughts? Other suggestions? You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. Enlist in XCOM
Malleus Malificorum Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 49	Posted - 2014.08.12 23:11:00 - [2] - Quote I think the current Gal assault bonus is wonderful, if the suit itself wasn't so bad for so long people wouldn't be trying to 'fix it' (by making it overpowered) and that all assault bonuses should stay as bonuses that aren't just flat dps increases. I'm all about performance related weapon bonuses on assault, mag size, heat reduction, accuracy improvements, kick reductions, reload speeds etc, these are all things that make your guns better without simply going "Nah dude, I get to kill you because my dps is 33% higher than yours and there's nothing you can do about it aside from skill into the same suit I'm in". I think a lot of people are pre-emptively trying to 'fix' something that isn't actually broken. The bonus is and always has been good on the gal assault, but the suit the bonus was placed on was terrible (like all assaults for a while in comparison to the huge passive suit benefits that scouts had), it's like "what's the point in having +9001% rifle damage on a suit that only has 1hp, moves at 1m a second and has the hitbox of a heavy". If you address the suit itself being bad, the bonus starts to stand on its own. If we get to a point where all other things being roughly equal, I want people to look at the assault and go "This is the suit I want, because it makes my weapon function better" without just looking at damage, that has more or less always been the case for the amarr assault - where the SCR/Laser can be used on other suits but if you want to be the murderking you really want the assault. My proposal is add kick reduction to the cal assault. That's really all that needs to be done, anything else should either be addressed on the suit stats, or on the weapons.
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6550	Posted - 2014.08.12 23:11:00 - [3] - Quote I'd be down for a range bonus. Might give the Gallente Assault the fighting edge it needs to stay relevant outside of a purely CQC role but then again I'd imagine all the "AR is OP" hound-dogs will come rearing their heads again. Even still, a 3% increase per level only equates to a 6m range buff - which puts it about on par with the ACR in terms of range capabilities but doesn't necessarily over-power it due to fitting costs, damage profile, etc. Caldari Assault, imo, could probably do well with a recoil/dispersion reduction allowing them to hit more accurately at range. The charge-up time isn't nearly as appealing, imo, because even with a 5% reduction you're talking about a 0.07 second difference on the Rail Rifle. It would only really benefit the Charge Sniper Rifle, in my eyes. It'd give the Cal Assault an interesting perk for long-range combat as well as make them a bit more effective at close range combat; but it's exclusive to the suit. Just my two ISK. No More Excuses
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6550	Posted - 2014.08.12 23:15:00 - [4] - Quote Malleus Malificorum wrote: I think the current Gal assault bonus is wonderful, if the suit itself wasn't so bad for so long people wouldn't be trying to 'fix it' (by making it overpowered) and that all assault bonuses should stay as bonuses that aren't just flat dps increases. I'm all about performance related weapon bonuses on assault, mag size, heat reduction, accuracy improvements, kick reductions, reload speeds etc, these are all things that make your guns better without simply going "Nah dude, I get to kill you because my dps is 33% higher than yours and there's nothing you can do about it aside from skill into the same suit I'm in". I think a lot of people are pre-emptively trying to 'fix' something that isn't actually broken. The bonus is and always has been good on the gal assault, but the suit the bonus was placed on was terrible (like all assaults for a while in comparison to the huge passive suit benefits that scouts had), it's like "what's the point in having +9001% rifle damage on a suit that only has 1hp, moves at 1m a second and has the hitbox of a heavy". If you address the suit itself being bad, the bonus starts to stand on its own. If we get to a point where all other things being roughly equal, I want people to look at the assault and go "This is the suit I want, because it makes my weapon function better" without just looking at damage, that has more or less always been the case for the amarr assault - where the SCR/Laser can be used on other suits but if you want to be the murderking you really want the assault. My proposal is add kick reduction to the cal assault. That's really all that needs to be done, anything else should either be addressed on the suit stats, or on the weapons. Other then the fact that, as he mentions in the first post, the Gal Assault's bonus only really applies to the Assault Rifles? Which already have a dispersion reduction from AR Sharpshooter? It -is- a useless bonus. I don't recall seeing constant threads and complaints about people "not being able to hit their target with the AR because the dispersion is terrible". Even if that were the case, why isn't any other role that uses the weapon (Commando, for instance) experiencing a dramatic shift in gameplay? Personally, I don't see any difference at all in the performance of my assault rifle between the Gallente Commando and the Gallente Assault. No More Excuses
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 16815	Posted - 2014.08.12 23:17:00 - [5] - Quote Malleus Malificorum wrote: I think the current Gal assault bonus is wonderful, if the suit itself wasn't so bad for so long people wouldn't be trying to 'fix it' (by making it overpowered) and that all assault bonuses should stay as bonuses that aren't just flat dps increases. I'm all about performance related weapon bonuses on assault, mag size, heat reduction, accuracy improvements, kick reductions, reload speeds etc, these are all things that make your guns better without simply going "Nah dude, I get to kill you because my dps is 33% higher than yours and there's nothing you can do about it aside from skill into the same suit I'm in". I think a lot of people are pre-emptively trying to 'fix' something that isn't actually broken. The bonus is and always has been good on the gal assault, but the suit the bonus was placed on was terrible (like all assaults for a while in comparison to the huge passive suit benefits that scouts had), it's like "what's the point in having +9001% rifle damage on a suit that only has 1hp, moves at 1m a second and has the hitbox of a heavy". If you address the suit itself being bad, the bonus starts to stand on its own. If we get to a point where all other things being roughly equal, I want people to look at the assault and go "This is the suit I want, because it makes my weapon function better" without just looking at damage, that has more or less always been the case for the amarr assault - where the SCR/Laser can be used on other suits but if you want to be the murderking you really want the assault. My proposal is add kick reduction to the cal assault. That's really all that needs to be done, anything else should either be addressed on the suit stats, or on the weapons. The Gallente bonus isn't good though, especially in comparison to the Amarr and Minmatar bonuses. It doesn't even approach the strength that those bonuses have. The Amarr and Min bonuses have hugely powerful and unique effects on their racial rifle. The recoil reduction is negligible, especially as recoil on most ARs is practically nonexistent. The hipfire reduction is minor, enough so that you can barely see the difference switching between a Galassault and a non-Galassault at a supply depot while you're looking for the crosshair change. Unlike the Amarr and Minmatar suits, the bonus is not something that would make you gravitate specifically towards that suit, nor is it as unique, as the effect is provided by training the operations skills. If you want a suit specifically to make the AR function better, you go Galmando. The damage and reload bonuses it gets are much more significant than the Galassault bonuses. The other assaults give a real reason to want to specialise in them to augment the relevant weapon. The Gallente assault doesn't. The suggestion of a recoil reduction for the Calassault might be decent, though. Rail weaponry tends to have high recoil, so it might be useful to see a reduction in that recoil. I don't think it'd have quite the same power as the Amarr/Minmatar bonuses, though. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. Enlist in XCOM
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 12807	Posted - 2014.08.12 23:19:00 - [6] - Quote I could see range working force actually. (I say this thinking of the Catalyst and how nasty its blasters can be out to scram range). I am not against either really. It suits just fine, the way I see it as long as it indirectly affects the suits capacity to apply damage it works. Amarr- Sustained DPS Caldari (proposed)- eliminates/ reduces the intial loss of DPS during charge up. Minmatar- Cannot speak for it Gallente (proposed)- aids in the application of damage "We were commanded us to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocent caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
Malleus Malificorum Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 49	Posted - 2014.08.12 23:38:00 - [7] - Quote Quote: The hipfire reduction is minor, enough so that you can barely see the difference switching between a Galassault and a non-Galassault at a supply depot while you're looking for the crosshair change. That's because nothing aside from movement/crouching changes crosshair size, I don't believe the game is currently coded in a manner that allows for sliding crosshair adjustments based on accuracy values. I think this has to do with the fact that initially nothing did affect accuracy, the sharpshooter skill affected range and when it was repurposed to affect accuracy there was no coding in the game to allow for sliding values to accuracy and CCP didn't want to expend the effort. Either that or weapons haven't been flagged to have their crosshairs adjust size based on accuracy. So while you may 'feel' that the bonus is negligible, the affects of gal assault 5 + sharpshooter 5 on say an ion pistol (because its the only weapon I can remember the accuracy values of offhand) change it from 46.65, to 46.65 * 1.25 = 58.3125 * 1.25 = 72.890625. The first improvement is about 11.8 points of improvement (making the Ion Pistol comparable to a breach SCP in terms of accuracy IIRC) and the second improvement is a whopping 14.5 points of accuracy. This makes plasma weapons absolutely insanely accurate when hipfired. Your proposed bonus of increased range isn't nearly as good as the dispersion / kick reduction when it comes to long range as without the reduction of dispersion even though you may have longer range less of your shots will land on target.
ZDub 303 Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dark Taboo 3193	Posted - 2014.08.12 23:46:00 - [8] - Quote As I commented in the other thread, as an avid user of the rail rifle I don't believe the charge time is long enough for it to really be a true weakness. However, kick is a problem with it. The charge time makes you unable to feather the trigger like other weapons making kick during ADS at range a real factor. For this reason, I don't think a charge time reduction would help caldari unless it was 20% per level which would make the RR overpowered. Instead a kick reduction would be a more appropriate bonus, at least imo. B C R U are letters, not words - Wierd Al Yankovich
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 16822	Posted - 2014.08.12 23:51:00 - [9] - Quote Malleus Malificorum wrote: This makes plasma weapons absolutely insanely accurate when hipfired. Your proposed bonus of increased range isn't nearly as good as the dispersion / kick reduction when it comes to long range as without the reduction of dispersion even though you may have longer range less of your shots will land on target. I think your conjecture as to how the accuracy works isn't correct - Although you can't see -much- of a change when you swap at the supply depot, there -is- a change. I'll take a few pictures with a capture card when I get on tomorrow and show you a superposition. I also don't think the accuracy values work that way either - While a standard assault rifle has an accuracy rating of 55.51 and a breach assault rifle has an accuracy rating of 56.92, the difference in spread is immediately apparent. That makes me believe that the scale isn't linear. I can bring more evidence on that front if you wish. If the accuracy rating was boosted 5% by a dispersion bonus then immediately on training sharpshooter the weapon becomes so insanely accurate at hipfire that you couldn't possibly need more hipfire accuracy. Obviously, that isn't the case. So putting the theories about how accuracy works aside for a moment, let's look at this quoted part of your post. Dispersion and kick is utterly meaningless at range. Why? Because you ADS. There is practically zero dispersion in ADS. Recoil is also irrelevant - unless you fire an entire clip at once, it has very little effect. Unless you're hipfiring at long range, then, it doesn't benefit you. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. Enlist in XCOM
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 16822	Posted - 2014.08.12 23:53:00 - [10] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: As I commented in the other thread, as an avid user of the rail rifle I don't believe the charge time is long enough for it to really be a true weakness. However, kick is a problem with it. The charge time makes you unable to feather the trigger like other weapons making kick during ADS at range a real factor. For this reason, I don't think a charge time reduction would help caldari unless it was 20% per level which would make the RR overpowered. Instead a kick reduction would be a more appropriate bonus, at least imo. Yeah, I think kick is increasingly becoming a very good suggestion. It's a real problem with a lot of rail weaponry. What strength do you think it should be at, though? I don't think 5% is as good as the Amarr and Minmatar bonuses. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. Enlist in XCOM

ZDub 303 Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dark Taboo 3196	Posted - 2014.08.13 00:10:00 - [11] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: As I commented in the other thread, as an avid user of the rail rifle I don't believe the charge time is long enough for it to really be a true weakness. However, kick is a problem with it. The charge time makes you unable to feather the trigger like other weapons making kick during ADS at range a real factor. For this reason, I don't think a charge time reduction would help caldari unless it was 20% per level which would make the RR overpowered. Instead a kick reduction would be a more appropriate bonus, at least imo. Yeah, I think kick is increasingly becoming a very good suggestion. It's a real problem with a lot of rail weaponry. What strength do you think it should be at, though? I don't think 5% is as good as the Amarr and Minmatar bonuses. EDIT: Edited in kick as a suggestion for the Caldari bonus. I think you start at 5% and if it turns out its not enough you bump it up from there. Always better to start off underpowered than to create OP FOTM fits right? B C R U are letters, not words - Wierd Al Yankovich
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 16830	Posted - 2014.08.13 00:11:00 - [12] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: I think you start at 5% and if it turns out its not enough you bump it up from there. Always better to start off underpowered than to create OP FOTM fits right? True enough. Although I have difficulty seeing things become FotM because of a lack of recoil, especially as we already have plenty of weapons that already do greater levels of damage than most rail weaponry without the recoil, although at a lower range. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. Enlist in XCOM
ZDub 303 Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dark Taboo 3196	Posted - 2014.08.13 00:19:00 - [13] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: I think you start at 5% and if it turns out its not enough you bump it up from there. Always better to start off underpowered than to create OP FOTM fits right? True enough. Although I have difficulty seeing things become FotM because of a lack of recoil, especially as we already have plenty of weapons that already do greater levels of damage than most rail weaponry without the recoil, although at a lower range. Maybe, but the rail rifle is quite powerful in the right hands. I could easily see a recoil reduction bonus making them too powerful. The SB-39 version is nasty at range ... and 25% is fairly noticeable (from what I remember of the AR Operation bonus in Chromosome). I might not be enough though, we could also explore differing numbers for light and sidearm weapons too. Something along the lines of 5-7% for light and 6-9% for sidearms perhaps? B C R U are letters, not words - Wierd Al Yankovich
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 16830	Posted - 2014.08.13 00:24:00 - [14] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: Maybe, but the rail rifle is quite powerful in the right hands. I could easily see a recoil reduction bonus making them too powerful. The SB-39 version is nasty at range ... and 25% is fairly noticeable (from what I remember of the AR Operation bonus in Chromosome). I might not be enough though, we could also explore differing numbers for light and sidearm weapons too. Something along the lines of 5-7% for light and 6-9% for sidearms perhaps? Starting to get a little convoluted there. I suggested a 7.5%, cumulative 37.5% bonus (as the middle ground between 5 and 10%). I don't think separate light/sidearm rail weapons categories is a necessary complexity, and I'm not sure if it's actually possible given the weapon tagging system and what can be done in a hotfix. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. Enlist in XCOM
ZDub 303 Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dark Taboo 3196	Posted - 2014.08.13 00:30:00 - [15] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: Maybe, but the rail rifle is quite powerful in the right hands. I could easily see a recoil reduction bonus making them too powerful. The SB-39 version is nasty at range ... and 25% is fairly noticeable (from what I remember of the AR Operation bonus in Chromosome). I might not be enough though, we could also explore differing numbers for light and sidearm weapons too. Something along the lines of 5-7% for light and 6-9% for sidearms perhaps? Starting to get a little convoluted there. I suggested a 7.5%, cumulative 37.5% bonus (as the middle ground between 5 and 10%). I don't think separate light/sidearm rail weapons categories is a necessary complexity, and I'm not sure if it's actually possible given the weapon tagging system and what can be done in a hotfix. I could see 7% working possibly. I would still suggest starting at 5% and if its not enough bump it to 7% in the next hotfix. I would stay away from decimals myself... only cause I don't trust the UI to handle it properly... Back to Gal for a sec... I worry about an optimal range bonus on the Gallente assault too. I think it will create the perception that the weapon is only good if its on a Gal Assault suit... which, I believe, is a level of balancing that would hurt the 'create your own fit' style of play this game tries so hard to preserve. Going from 40m to 53m (rounded) optimal is pretty substantial. A buff to effective range gives a similar effect without making it feel like the weapon is unviable otherwise. You still get increased damage at range. Actually... maybe say a balance between our two suggestions would be best. 3% to Optimal and Effective Range per level perhaps? That would put it at... Optimal: 46m Effective: 81m (rounded) I like the sound of that a lot myself. Edit: Option 4 on the Spreadsheet B C R U are letters, not words - Wierd Al Yankovich
Zindorak 1.U.P 597	Posted - 2014.08.13 00:31:00 - [16] - Quote Gal: More range Cal: Less Spool time or Increased Clip size Your welcome Pokemon master
Atiim Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11357	Posted - 2014.08.13 00:37:00 - [17] - Quote I don't use Gallente Assaults enough to comment on them, but if I had to suggest a bonus it would be: +2% to Hybrid - Blaster weapon RoF and + 3% Hybrid - Blaster Projectile Speed per level. The RoF bonus affects both the Ion Pistol and Plasma Rifle, and the Projectile Speed would make Gallente Assault will bring it on-par with the Gallente Commando in terms of how effective it is with the Plasma Cannon. Though those numbers are only examples and will most likely need adjustments. DUST 514's 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Ace Starburst is well hung 111	Posted - 2014.08.13 00:37:00 - [18] - Quote Dumb question, if there was a kick reduction for rail weaponry would or could that translate into a shorter pause between sniper rifle shots?
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 16831	Posted - 2014.08.13 00:38:00 - [19] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: I could see 7% working possibly. I would still suggest starting at 5% and if its not enough bump it to 7% in the next hotfix. I would stay away from decimals myself... only cause I don't trust the UI to handle it properly... Back to Gal for a sec... I worry about an optimal range bonus on the Gallente assault too. I think it will create the perception that the weapon is only good if its on a Gal Assault suit... which, I believe, is a level of balancing that would hurt the 'create your own fit' style of play this game tries so hard to preserve. Going from 40m to 53m (rounded) optimal is pretty substantial. A buff to effective range gives a similar effect without making it feel like the weapon is unviable otherwise. You still get increased damage at range. Actually... maybe say a balance between our two suggestions would be best. 3% to Optimal and Effective Range per level perhaps? That would put it at... Optimal: 46m Effective: 81m (rounded) I like the sound of that a lot myself. I think you're overestimating the strength of these things. Firstly, on the 'perception that a weapon is only good if it's on x assault suit' - This may already exist. The Amarr assault bonus has long remained the go-to suit for serious SCR users and the sheer strength of the bonus is almost unrivalled as bonuses go. I don't think either the recoil or the range bonuses would create that perception around rail or plasma weaponry. The Minmatar bonus to the CR is also very significant - 85 round ACR clips are hugely useful, but they haven't quite become 'use this if you want to use a CR'. There are already quite strong bonuses for specific weapons in existence. There's a 10% damage bonus (a pretty solid one, as they go) on the commando in addition to a fairly solid reload bonus. The commandos, despite all the advantages they have to specific light weapons, haven't become ubiquitous with them. As for the bonuses being too strong: Cutting the bonus down to a 15% range bonus equates to a 6m range increase. Is that seriously worth it? Compared to the strength of the Amarr/Minmatar bonuses, that's trivial. A cumulative 10% difference between a 25% and a 35% bonus in recoil is going to be unnoticeable by a human user. You won't notice the difference in use. It's already iffy noticing the recoil reduction on the TAR when used with a current Galassault, which has a 25% reduction in recoil. So I think the difference between 5 and 7% per level is really just semantics. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. Enlist in XCOM
ZDub 303 Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dark Taboo 3197	Posted - 2014.08.13 00:50:00 - [20] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: I think you're overestimating the strength of these things. Firstly, on the 'perception that a weapon is only good if it's on x assault suit' - This may already exist. The Amarr assault bonus has long remained the go-to suit for serious SCR users and the sheer strength of the bonus is almost unrivalled as bonuses go. I don't think either the recoil or the range bonuses would create that perception around rail or plasma weaponry. The Minmatar bonus to the CR is also very significant - 85 round ACR clips are hugely useful, but they haven't quite become 'use this if you want to use a CR'. There are already quite strong bonuses for specific weapons in existence. There's a 10% damage bonus (a pretty solid one, as they go) on the commando in addition to a fairly solid reload bonus. The commandos, despite all the advantages they have to specific light weapons, haven't become ubiquitous with them. As for the bonuses being too strong: Cutting the bonus down to a 15% range bonus equates to a 6m range increase. Is that seriously worth it? Compared to the strength of the Amarr/Minmatar bonuses, that's trivial. A cumulative 10% difference between a 25% and a 35% bonus in recoil is going to be unnoticeable by a human user. You won't notice the difference in use. It's already iffy noticing the recoil reduction on the TAR when used with a current Galassault, which has a 25% reduction in recoil. So I think the difference between 5 and 7% per level is really just semantics. Maybe... its hard for me to comment without a playtest. For recoil you might be right, absolutely... Its hard to know. For sharpshooter, all I can draw on was the Chromosome Sharpshooter at 3% per level and SS Prof at 2% per level. It was so powerful they removed it because it was gamebreaking. However... in the context of multiple light weapons, all of which out range the AR now, it might be a different story. However, we're nitpicking over numbers, which doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. Optimal/Effective range for the Gallente Assault and Kick Reduction for the Caldari Assault would be my suggestion for actually useful racial bonuses. Rattati and Logibro can figure out the numbers that make sense. B C R U are letters, not words - Wierd Al Yankovich

Jack 3enimble Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 165	Posted - 2014.08.13 01:45:00 - [21] - Quote Optimal/Effective range for the Gallente Assault and Kick Reduction for the Caldari Assault. That would be the best options I've seen. Spool up time reduction is too small of a bonus for the Cal to compete with the other suits, bonus wise. The added plus will be that the rail rifle on the Cal assault with the proposed bonus will outclass the players that use the the rail rifle on other suits. Again this is the case with the Amarr and Min so that would be more than fair for the Cal too. As for the Gal the AR with that bonus can compete better with the other rifles and will outclass players that use the AR on other suits. That way all the Assaults suits benefit from their respective weapons in comparison to other players using the racial weapons but not the suit. Not much to ask for if you put roughly 2.5 ml SP in your suit to make your weapon better.
Indy Strizer Like A Moth To A Flame 153	Posted - 2014.08.13 03:38:00 - [22] - Quote I don't like the idea of the bonuses mitigating the weaknesses of each race's rifle, I think such weaknesses should be inherent in each race's weapons, we should focus a bit more on bonuses that reflect each race's combat philosphies and lets players get immersed in that playstyle a bit more. I have Rapid Reload 5 and Caldari Assault 5, I like the bonus, although it IS outshined by Commando bonuses. I often reload my rail rifle while I'm regenerating shields or when people get behind cover to hide and I'm pretty much ready to put more rounds into enemies. Perhaps people would appreciate it more if it were just a bit faster or made more of a difference? In my caldari commando, which is skilled to 3 at the moment, I LOVE and praise my rapid reload privately very, very, very often because I have enough HP to survive and regenerate. I have enough survivability for it to make a difference. On a side note, I also think commandos should only get damage bonuses, or weapon handling bonuses, one or the other- not both, but that's a topic for another day. In comparison to armor tanked suits, shield suits are fragile. I think the issue is that caldari assault players die before they use rapid reload in a straight up confrontation, it's a bit more passive and it's not something that most players utilize DURING an engagement, but with Charlie around the corner... Let's wait and see. As for the proposed changes... I think doing enough may be too much. As somebody already pointed out, spool times on rail rifles are negligible- especially if you're using them as intended. Personally, if you do anything less than eliminate spool time, it'll feel a bit pointless to me and even if you do eliminate spool time, people will just start using them in CQC, which is something people are already complaining about... As for recoil, which I think is much better than a reduction in spool time, I hardly ever find myself struggling with recoil unless I'm in a situation that I feel I shouldn't be in anyways. I find myself strugging with recoil in CQC against heavies or heavily tanked suits in CQC situations or trying to put rounds non-stop into hoardes of enemies. Do you really want a Caldari Assault on the field that can negate the tactic of popping in and out of cover to pop shots back? Do you want a Caldari Assault that can engage in CQC? Do you want a Caldari Asssalt that can hold R1 and put rounds into people continuously? Do Caldari Assaults even want reduced spool time and all those things? Should they? Should they be stuck inside a box of "conventional caldari warfare dogma" and strive to be the best at that or do they want to run up to enemies and assault with the rail rifle in CQC? Even if they do, will it work out as well for a shield tanked suit which are weaker anyways? Will the new assault CQC oriented bonuses be pointless if Ratatti makes the rail rifle do less damage at smaller ranges like the laser rifle? If I remember correctly, he is considering it... These aren't rhetorical questions, I really don't know. I'd like to hear others' thoughts. I don't have numbers, but this is all just "gut feeling" so I wouldn't be surprised if my ideas where ignored and faded into obscurity like usual. Anyways... I figure that if any race is to get a bonus to rate of fire, it should be minmatar since they're the hit and run types. I'd love to see an assault mass driver even more... assaulty. Let Amarr keep their bonus, they're "brawlers" as some have said, so they need a bonus for sustaining fire combat in intense combat. Same for Gallente, many also refer to them as brawlers, who would get bigger magazines, since they're also brawlers, I also think it'd be a nice touch since Gallenteans are more humanitarian-esque and are resultingly better supplied. Caldari? I have no clue. Rapid reload is nice, but recoil reduction could also work.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 12825	Posted - 2014.08.13 03:54:00 - [23] - Quote Indy Strizer wrote: I don't like the idea of the bonuses mitigating the weaknesses of each race's rifle, I think such weaknesses should be inherent in each race's weapons, we should focus a bit more on bonuses that reflect each race's combat philosphies and lets players get immersed in that playstyle a bit more. I have Rapid Reload 5 and Caldari Assault 5, I like the bonus, although it IS outshined by Commando bonuses. I often reload my rail rifle while I'm regenerating shields or when people get behind cover to hide and I'm pretty much ready to put more rounds into enemies. Perhaps people would appreciate it more if it were just a bit faster or made more of a difference? In my caldari commando, which is skilled to 3 at the moment, I LOVE and praise my rapid reload privately very, very, very often because I have enough HP to survive and regenerate. I have enough survivability for it to make a difference. On a side note, I also think commandos should only get damage bonuses, or weapon handling bonuses, one or the other- not both, but that's a topic for another day. In comparison to armor tanked suits, shield suits are fragile. I think the issue is that caldari assault players die before they use rapid reload in a straight up confrontation, it's a bit more passive and it's not something that most players utilize DURING an engagement, but with Charlie around the corner... Let's wait and see. As for the proposed changes... I think doing enough may be too much. As somebody already pointed out, spool times on rail rifles are negligible- especially if you're using them as intended. Personally, if you do anything less than eliminate spool time, it'll feel a bit pointless to me and even if you do eliminate spool time, people will just start using them in CQC, which is something people are already complaining about... As for recoil, which I think is much better than a reduction in spool time, I hardly ever find myself struggling with recoil unless I'm in a situation that I feel I shouldn't be in anyways. I find myself strugging with recoil in CQC against heavies or heavily tanked suits in CQC situations or trying to put rounds non-stop into hoardes of enemies. Do you really want a Caldari Assault on the field that can negate the tactic of popping in and out of cover to pop shots back? Do you want a Caldari Assault that can engage in CQC? Do you want a Caldari Asssalt that can hold R1 and put rounds into people continuously? Do Caldari Assaults even want reduced spool time and all those things? Should they? Should they be stuck inside a box of "conventional caldari warfare dogma" and strive to be the best at that or do they want to run up to enemies and assault with the rail rifle in CQC? Even if they do, will it work out as well for a shield tanked suit which are weaker anyways? Will the new assault CQC oriented bonuses be pointless if Ratatti makes the rail rifle do less damage at smaller ranges like the laser rifle? If I remember correctly, he is considering it... These aren't rhetorical questions, I really don't know. I'd like to hear others' thoughts. I don't have numbers, but this is all just "gut feeling" so I wouldn't be surprised if my ideas where ignored and faded into obscurity like usual. Anyways... I figure that if any race is to get a bonus to rate of fire, it should be minmatar since they're the hit and run types. I'd love to see an assault mass driver even more... assaulty. Let Amarr keep their bonus, they're "brawlers" as some have said, so they need a bonus for sustaining fire combat in intense combat. Same for Gallente, many also refer to them as brawlers, who would get bigger magazines, since they're also brawlers, I also think it'd be a nice touch since Gallenteans are more humanitarian-esque and are resultingly better supplied. Caldari? I have no clue. Rapid reload is nice, but recoil reduction could also work. In regards to the proposed Gallente bonus it make total sense within the game as part of the Gallentean racial combat philosophy. A particular ship the Catalyst is a prime example of this, with bonuses to the range of Blaster weapons......... 400DPS destroyer hull that is terrifying. "We were commanded us to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocent caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1724	Posted - 2014.08.13 05:59:00 - [24] - Quote I like the direction the consensus is leading to at this point: Amarr bonus stays the same Gallente bonus switches to range (not a bad idea since it would make the weapon much more competitive) Min stays the same Cal Recoil/dispersion reduction. All great bonuses that would really give flavor and a buff to the needed assault suits. Anyone who says the Gal bonus is good as it stands, you know who you are, clearly have not spent enough time playing with the Gal assault. As many others have said the bonus makes absolutely no difference especially when you have sharpshooter 5. Fun > Realism
Malleus Malificorum Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 54	Posted - 2014.08.13 06:14:00 - [25] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: I like the direction the consensus is leading to at this point: Amarr bonus stays the same Gallente bonus switches to range (not a bad idea since it would make the weapon much more competitive) Min stays the same Cal Recoil/dispersion reduction. All great bonuses that would really give flavor and a buff to the needed assault suits. Anyone who says the Gal bonus is good as it stands, you know who you are, clearly have not spent enough time playing with the Gal assault. As many others have said the bonus makes absolutely no difference especially when you have sharpshooter 5. Lets not be petty simply because you disagreed with me (and other informed individuals) when you didn't know what you were talking about and were on a kneejerk weaboo witchhunt. The gallente assault bonus as it is is fine. If the AR's range needs to be adjusted I'd prefer it be adjusted on the rifle itself rather than making it so only one suit is 'viable' with it. Also, if we're still operating on past grievances, I'd suggest you read the thread again, Ceej Mantis has summarized it fairly well despite you and other 'entitled' individuals sucking the joy out of the idea.
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 3943	Posted - 2014.08.13 06:26:00 - [26] - Quote 2% increase in Rof for the gallente (and I'm sticking to that opinion) But I am really sad to see not many ppl want the charge time reduction on the Cal assault, I guess my dream of useful follow up shots using the CSR is a no go :( (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
Racro 01 Arifistan 501st Knights of Leanbox 403	Posted - 2014.08.13 06:51:00 - [27] - Quote i have been using my ar for a very long time and have both operation5 and sharpshooter 5 on the AR. when I use any suit with an AR the difference in the dispersion/kick IS very noticible. sure at operation/sharpshhoter 5 for AR 25% bonus is good...but the gall assault increase that to 50% which is a VERY large increase on top of that the ion pistol is devastating when on the gall assault. and due to the suits fitting/layout I can purpose it fro what ever I want it to do. but mostly I perform best with a breach assault rifle. so all I have to say is......LEAVE MY GALL ASSAULT ALONE AND GIVE ME MY CHARLIE BUFF'S. thank you. *Elite Gallenten Soldier*
Malleus Malificorum Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 56	Posted - 2014.08.13 07:03:00 - [28] - Quote Racro 01 Arifistan wrote: i have been using my ar for a very long time and have both operation5 and sharpshooter 5 on the AR. when I use any suit with an AR the difference in the dispersion/kick IS very noticible. sure at operation/sharpshhoter 5 for AR 25% bonus is good...but the gall assault increase that to 50% which is a VERY large increase on top of that the ion pistol is devastating when on the gall assault. and due to the suits fitting/layout I can purpose it fro what ever I want it to do. but mostly I perform best with a breach assault rifle. so all I have to say is......LEAVE MY GALL ASSAULT ALONE AND GIVE ME MY CHARLIE BUFF'S. thank you. It's a multiplicative bonus, not an additive bonus. [value1] * [skill1] = [value1] * [skill2] = [final value]. It amounts to being a 56.25% bonus.
Cody Sietz Evzones 3832	Posted - 2014.08.13 15:46:00 - [29] - Quote +1 "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1728	Posted - 2014.08.14 04:34:00 - [30] - Quote Malleus Malificorum wrote: Mobius Kaethis wrote: I like the direction the consensus is leading to at this point: Amarr bonus stays the same Gallente bonus switches to range (not a bad idea since it would make the weapon much more competitive) Min stays the same Cal Recoil/dispersion reduction. All great bonuses that would really give flavor and a buff to the needed assault suits. Anyone who says the Gal bonus is good as it stands, you know who you are, clearly have not spent enough time playing with the Gal assault. As many others have said the bonus makes absolutely no difference especially when you have sharpshooter 5. Lets not be petty simply because you disagreed with me (and other informed individuals) when you didn't know what you were talking about and were on a kneejerk weaboo witchhunt. The gallente assault bonus as it is is fine. If the AR's range needs to be adjusted I'd prefer it be adjusted on the rifle itself rather than making it so only one suit is 'viable' with it. Also, if we're still operating on past grievances, I'd suggest you read the thread again, Ceej Mantis has summarized it fairly well despite you and other 'entitled' individuals sucking the joy out of the idea. Where in my post do I make any reference to any other thread or disagreement we have had. Where do I even refer to you directly? While my statements did reference you they also touched upon the ideas of others with whom I disagreed. I think you really need to take a step back and realize that very little of what is said on these forums is in regards to you or your opinions. There are frankly other, more interesting, people with which to discuss Dust. As to the content of my statement I was from trying to be petty. I was actually making a statement based upon playing primarily as a Gal Assault since Uprising was released. The other 'entitled' individuals and I are all devoted Gal Assault players and really do know what we are talking about. Since you ADS when you are shooting at range (which is not affected by the bonus and is pin-point accurate anyway) having a tighter hip fire grouping doesn't really matter. If your firing from the hip outside of CQC your doing it wrong. Additionally, when firing from the hip, I do not notice any discernible difference between the AR's dispersion when in a Gal Assault or any of my other suits. If there is a difference it is far too minor to make any meaningful difference in the weapon's operation. Fun > Realism

Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 16941	Posted - 2014.08.14 20:53:00 - [31] - Quote I wonder if this is possible for Delta or for some discussion by a dev? You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. Enlist in XCOM
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 124	Posted - 2014.08.14 22:19:00 - [32] - Quote Range ? AR is a CQC weapon Not a big range weapon... Rof ? So more DPS ? Ok, but I want alsoo a DPS increasing for my RR. My question, if you can answer me correctly, I'll just have to agree with this bonus : Why could AR have a bigger DPS while the other weapons don't ? EDIT: Because the AR has been buffed, and don't need to get more and more buff (passive) to be a good weapon. Logibro, you're my boy
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 16943	Posted - 2014.08.14 22:37:00 - [33] - Quote Killer's Coys wrote: Range ? AR is a CQC weapon Not a big range weapon... Rof ? So more DPS ? Ok, but I want alsoo a DPS increasing for my RR. My question, if you can answer me correctly, I'll just have to agree with this bonus : Why could AR have a bigger DPS while the other weapons don't ? EDIT: Because the AR has been buffed, and don't need to get more and more buff (passive) to be a good weapon. The AR should have a greater DPS than the RR because it has a much shorter range than the other rifles. Other weapons have similar DPS levels while having a much, much greater range. I'm not really sure where you're coming from here. The Gal and Calassaults have useless bonuses. I'm proposing ones which are actually useful. It's not a discussion of ARs vs RRs. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. Enlist in XCOM
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 124	Posted - 2014.08.14 22:54:00 - [34] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Killer's Coys wrote: Range ? AR is a CQC weapon Not a big range weapon... Rof ? So more DPS ? Ok, but I want alsoo a DPS increasing for my RR. My question, if you can answer me correctly, I'll just have to agree with this bonus : Why could AR have a bigger DPS while the other weapons don't ? EDIT: Because the AR has been buffed, and don't need to get more and more buff (passive) to be a good weapon. The AR should have a greater DPS than the RR because it has a much shorter range than the other rifles. Other weapons have similar DPS levels while having a much, much greater range. I'm not really sure where you're coming from here. The Gal and Calassaults have useless bonuses. I'm proposing ones which are actually useful. It's not a discussion of ARs vs RRs. Ho no no no you haven't understood me You're proposal are great. The calda is great. The Gallente is also great, but so much great. DPS is DPS, ok, but have you ever rushed an ennemy with a burst RR ? I know what I say, it's much easier to rush someone with the AR than the RR Why ? Because the AR is made for CQC. Not the RR. The difference between short range and long range is already made. Just forget the difference beween light weapons... Those will NEVER be balanced... The Scrambler will always stay the best (for example) Imagine, an AR with MORE DPS than the Balac ? HAHAHAHA seriously... Galassault with Duvolle > others with Balac ? No... I think I've found the good example to show more RoF would unbalance the game... You have ideas, that's great, you want to improve the game, thank you for that, but more RoF isn't the good think for balance. That's not for anything this bonus idea has been deleted for 1.8 MY proposal for Gallente assault : + 5% reload time and +5% reduction kick per level => Stability, you loose your "bad hipfire", and you can reload fast. Logibro, you're my boy
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 16943	Posted - 2014.08.14 23:03:00 - [35] - Quote Killer's Coys wrote: Imagine, an AR with MORE DPS than the Balac ? HAHAHAHA seriously... Galassault with Duvolle > others with Balac ? No... I think I've found the good example to show more RoF would unbalance the game... With a 2% RoF bonus per level, a bonused Galassault with a Duvolle would not outDPS any other suit using a Balac's. Although I'm a little curious - why should that be such a problem? There are already several incidences of damage bonuses in the game as well as other bonuses which greatly enhance damage application. The Amarr assault bonus in particular is so fantastically powerful for its weapons and it has a colossal effect on how they play. In most semi-auto operation with the SCR, you can forget about the overheat almost entirely because of the bonus. There are so many useful bonuses that enhance killing power that I don't see how there's a problem with one that's actually comparatively mediocre. Quote: You have ideas, that's great, you want to improve the game, thank you for that, but more RoF isn't the good think for balance. That's not for anything this bonus idea has been deleted for 1.8 MY proposal for Gallente assault : + 5% reload time and +5% reduction kick per level => Stability, you loose your "bad hipfire", and you can reload fast. There's no real kick to plasma weapons, though. The AR doesn't kick, the breach AR doesn't kick, the burst doesn't, the TAR does slightly but judging by the already existing recoil reduction bonus there's not much of a difference, and shotgun recoil is completely irrelevant. Reload time is a poor bonus. Few people actually like it on the Calassault already, and this would be to a class of weapons with already fairly long firing times per clip and rapid reloads. It wouldn't be an effective bonus. It might have some minor effects, but it gets completely outclassed by the other assault bonuses. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. Enlist in XCOM
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 124	Posted - 2014.08.14 23:21:00 - [36] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: With a 2% RoF bonus per level, a bonused Galassault with a Duvolle would not outDPS any other suit using a Balac's. Although I'm a little curious - why should that be such a problem? You don't see the problem ? A Gallente would have a BETTER BALAC with ISK, hoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ! I'm sorry, I would like have it on my Gallente assault, woaw, but NOT BALANCED Seriously, it would buff too much the AR, really... The difference between better clip size (minma) or charge time (calda) and Gallente (RoF) would be too big. The problem : the AR is enought good at the moment (I wanna say : good hipfire, good kick, good clip size). So it's difficult to find a good bonus. But this one isn't the good one. With the RoF bonus, you could have the same DPS as the Commando. So, GalCommando would become usless. Less speed, stamina, regen, less mods and so less damager. Hummm... Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: There are already several incidences of damage bonuses in the game as well as other bonuses which greatly enhance damage application. The Amarr assault bonus in particular is so fantastically powerful for its weapons and it has a colossal effect on how they play. In most semi-auto operation with the SCR, you can forget about the overheat almost entirely because of the bonus. As I've said previously : The Amarr-scrambler bonus is too good, because the scrambler is too good at the begining. Logibro, you're my boy
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 16946	Posted - 2014.08.14 23:30:00 - [37] - Quote Killer's Coys wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: With a 2% RoF bonus per level, a bonused Galassault with a Duvolle would not outDPS any other suit using a Balac's. Although I'm a little curious - why should that be such a problem? You don't see the problem ? A Gallente would have a BETTER BALAC with ISK, hoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ! I'm sorry, I would like have it on my Gallente assault, woaw, but NOT BALANCED Seriously, it would buff too much the AR, really... The difference between better clip size (minma) or charge time (calda) and Gallente (RoF) would be too big. No, I don't see the problem. It equates to roughly a 10% DPS buff with the tradeoff that you run out of ammo quicker. There are already bonuses which have that much of an effect, for every weapon. It's just like a built in damage mod. Calling it a 'better Balac with ISK' is sensationalist and exaggerated. An AR bonused in such a way would still have lower RoF than the Balac, still have a lower damage per bullet than the Balac, still have a lower clip size than the Balac, and have a significantly lower DPS. It's worse than the Balac. And you're missing the point entirely. There are loads of bonuses out there that do things like this. There are already 10% damage bonuses which would have very similar effects to this one. And they're fine. Why wouldn't this one be? Quote: The problem : the AR is enought good at the moment (I wanna say : good hipfire, good kick, good clip size). So it's difficult to find a good bonus. But this one isn't the good one. With the RoF bonus, you could have the same DPS as the Commando. So, GalCommando would become usless. Less speed, stamina, regen, less mods and so less damager. Hummm... The Commando is not useless. The entire point of the commando is so you can carry 2 light weapons on the same suit. It's not to be a better assault, it's to carry two light weapons. It doesn't matter at all if it's outperformed by the Galassault in some other areas because it has a role that no assault can possibly do. Quote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: There are already several incidences of damage bonuses in the game as well as other bonuses which greatly enhance damage application. The Amarr assault bonus in particular is so fantastically powerful for its weapons and it has a colossal effect on how they play. In most semi-auto operation with the SCR, you can forget about the overheat almost entirely because of the bonus. As I've said previously : The Amarr-scrambler bonus is too good, because the scrambler is too good at the begining. Okay, and what if the scrambler were nerfed? It would still be a powerful bonus whether or not the scrambler was a good weapon. The Minmatar bonus is also very powerful. The only shortcoming of the CR is its short clip size and that's immediately overcome by that bonus. It's a great advantage. The Calassault and Galassault should have their bonuses brought up to that level, rather than nerf the quite unique effects that you have on the Amarr/Min assaults. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. 'Lucent Echelon' - Gallente FW channel
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 124	Posted - 2014.08.14 23:51:00 - [38] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Calling it a 'better Balac with ISK' is sensationalist and exaggerated. An AR bonused in such a way would still have lower RoF than the Balac, still have a lower damage per bullet than the Balac, still have a lower clip size than the Balac, and have a significantly lower DPS. It's worse than the Balac. I've said Gallente + Duvolle > Minmassault (example) with Balac. Balac is 852(I think) RPM. Duvolle would be 880 Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Okay, and what if the scrambler were nerfed? It would still be a powerful bonus whether or not the scrambler was a good weapon. Good bonus, but don't increase DPS. That's all. Improve the weapon use. Not the damage. Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: The Minmatar bonus is also very powerful. The only shortcoming of the CR is its short clip size and that's immediately overcome by that bonus. It's a great advantage. The Calassault and Galassault should have their bonuses brought up to that level, rather than nerf the quite unique effects that you have on the Amarr/Min assaults. Yes. I agree. But not RoF. Amarr bonus => you can shoot longer Minma bonus => you can shoot longer Calda bonus (futur probably) => you can shoot faster (don't wait charge time) Gallente => more RoF for more damage ? Hmmm... You want to have more RoF ? Give it to all assault, with it, all assault could become better I've just understand I've not said my reason -_- => Compared to all suit in this game, more RoF for Gallente is a good idea. My fear is about other assaults. You see, I'm a Caldassault, and between less cherge time or more RoF, my choose is already done... This bonus would not be balanced compared to others assaults bonus (except maybe the Amarr). More RoF ? Add this bonus to Assault. With that, all assault could have more RoF for all light weapon. And give particular bonus for race. Idea : Assault : +5% reductionPG/CPU for light/sidearm/grenade and +2%RoF of lght weapons per level Minma : +5% clip size projectil weapon and +1% explosive weapon per level Amarr : +5% heat reduction to laser weapon per level Calda: +5% kick reduction to hybrid/rail weapon and +5% reduction charge up time per level Gallente : +5% kick reduction and +5% reload time to hybrid/blaster weapon per level Assaults => buffed Race => buffed / stay like now For Amarr : not useless : - for cheated people who use hipfire : good - for Assault Scrambler : usefull Logibro, you're my boy
Jack 3enimble Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 168	Posted - 2014.08.15 01:10:00 - [39] - Quote What annoys me is that there isn't a reaction from a CPM or DEV on this topic. Clearly there is a lot of feedback by experienced players who point out something and give the solution. Could there be at least some feedback that a DEV or CPM recognizes this?
Malleus Malificorum Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 67	Posted - 2014.08.15 04:53:00 - [40] - Quote If you make the gallente assault bonus something like RoF or even optimal range, it makes it so that the only 'viable' option for using the weapon becomes the assault - which should never be the case, those are things that should be addressed on the gun themselves. Assault bonuses should always be about performance, and while you can argue for days about min + amarr assault bonuses neither of them actually alter the DPS of a weapon all they do is allow you to shoot for longer. If you were to add a kick reduction to the caldari, you still have a weapon with the same DPS, but improved performance. If you keep the current bonuses on the gallente, you have a weapon with the same dps, but improved performance. If the AR itself needs to be tweaked to bring it slightly more in line with other guns that's just fine, If SCR/RR/CR's need to be nerfed, that is also fine, but let's not shoehorn any one suit into outright being the best with them for any reason other than 'performance' or 'handling'.

Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 124	Posted - 2014.08.15 09:23:00 - [41] - Quote Malleus Malificorum wrote: If you make the gallente assault bonus something like RoF or even optimal range, it makes it so that the only 'viable' option for using the weapon becomes the assault - which should never be the case, those are things that should be addressed on the gun themselves. Assault bonuses should always be about performance, and while you can argue for days about min + amarr assault bonuses neither of them actually alter the DPS of a weapon all they do is allow you to shoot for longer. If you were to add a kick reduction to the caldari, you still have a weapon with the same DPS, but improved performance. If you keep the current bonuses on the gallente, you have a weapon with the same dps, but improved performance. If the AR itself needs to be tweaked to bring it slightly more in line with other guns that's just fine, If SCR/RR/CR's need to be nerfed, that is also fine, but let's not shoehorn any one suit into outright being the best with them for any reason other than 'performance' or 'handling'. +1 Logibro, you're my boy
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 16970	Posted - 2014.08.15 10:57:00 - [42] - Quote Malleus Malificorum wrote: If you make the gallente assault bonus something like RoF or even optimal range, it makes it so that the only 'viable' option for using the weapon becomes the assault - which should never be the case, those are things that should be addressed on the gun themselves. Should we remove the commando bonuses? All of them increase DPS. Does that mean they're the only viable option for using that weapon? No, it doesn't. There is no problem with the equivalent of 10% more damage. Quote: Assault bonuses should always be about performance, and while you can argue for days about min + amarr assault bonuses neither of them actually alter the DPS of a weapon all they do is allow you to shoot for longer. And yet they remain massively strong performance enhancers. If you're so dead set against DPS because somehow on the Galassault, unlike all other damage bonuses, it would make it 'the only viable option', optimal range doesn't increase DPS. It increases performance. Quote: If you were to add a kick reduction to the caldari, you still have a weapon with the same DPS, but improved performance. If you keep the current bonuses on the gallente, you have a weapon with the same dps, but improved performance. Except the current bonuses on the Gallente are so pathetic that it doesn't enhance performance. When has kick ever been a serious concern with the AR or shotgun? The hipfire difference is unnoticeable. Meanwhile, the Amarr and Minmatar bonuses are immediately noticeable as incredibly strong 'performance enhancers'. Quote: If the AR itself needs to be tweaked to bring it slightly more in line with other guns that's just fine, If SCR/RR/CR's need to be nerfed, that is also fine, but let's not shoehorn any one suit into outright being the best with them for any reason other than 'performance' or 'handling'. There are so many suits with strong bonuses to weapons that I genuinely can't understand how you can possibly think a 10% DPS increase would make it 'the only viable option' because it's blatantly not. The Amarr commando has a 10% damage bonus. Does that mean it's the only suit you see laser weaponry used on? No, it doesn't. Why would this one specific instance of a bonus break everything? You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. 'Lucent Echelon' - Gallente FW channel
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 124	Posted - 2014.08.15 11:42:00 - [43] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Should we remove the commando bonuses? All of them increase DPS. Does that mean they're the only viable option for using that weapon? No, it doesn't. There is no problem with the equivalent of 10% more damage. And if there's a problem with the bonus making weapons much more useful on the suit, perhaps we should remove the Amarr bonus? The bonus is so powerful that almost any serious SCR user goes to that suit. No, because it's COMMANDO ! Commando is made to have a big DPS. Not Assault. And if you look at all commando's bonus, each commando has more DPS with his racial weapon. Calda => +10% Rail Minma => +10 explosive and projectil Amarr => +10% Laser Gallente => +10% blaster & plasma So, with your proposal, JUST the Galassault would have a bigger DPS ? But not the other assaults ? Sorry, but that's not balanced... Gallente = more DPS but others = better using ? Like the other assaults bonus (Minma and Amarr) the Gallente should have a bonus which one facilitates the weapon using. Want more RoF for the AR ? Ok, but same thing for all other assaults. Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: And yet they remain massively strong performance enhancers. If you're so dead set against DPS because somehow on the Galassault, unlike all other damage bonuses, it would make it 'the only viable option', optimal range doesn't increase DPS. It increases performance. As I've said, AR is a CQC weapon, don't go it a long range weapon. Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Except the current bonuses on the Gallente are so pathetic that it doesn't enhance performance. When has kick ever been a serious concern with the AR or shotgun? The hipfire difference is unnoticeable. Meanwhile, the Amarr and Minmatar bonuses are immediately noticeable as incredibly strong 'performance enhancers'. Useless the Gal bonus ? The AR hasn't a lot of kick, so kick reduction => any kick. The AR doesn't move when you're shooting. I've tested that, and it's amazing, you can kill people at 60m without problem... Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: There are so many suits with strong bonuses to weapons that I genuinely can't understand how you can possibly think a 10% DPS increase would make it 'the only viable option' because it's blatantly not. The Amarr commando has a 10% damage bonus. Does that mean it's the only suit you see laser weaponry used on? No, it doesn't. As I've said, that's Commando. Commando = DPS. ALL commando = DPS. You, you want to do that : Minma, Amarr and Calda = more performance and Gal = DPS ? ... [quote=Arkena Wyrnspire] Why would this one specific instance of a bonus break everything? Because of the other race. The idea increasing RoF for Assaults is a good idea, but for all assault. That's not balance add mor RoF for Gallente and not for others... Logibro, you're my boy
Joel II X Dah Gods O Bacon 3022	Posted - 2014.08.15 11:49:00 - [44] - Quote I've always mention shorter spool for Caldari and RoF increase for Gallente. Those are my two iskies.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 16972	Posted - 2014.08.15 12:14:00 - [45] - Quote Killer's Coys wrote: Because of the other race. The idea increasing RoF for Assaults is a good idea, but for all assault. That's not balance add mor RoF for Gallente and not for others... Perhaps we should remove the Minmatar bonus then. Adding more clip size for them, but not others? The entire point of a bonus is to add something over other options... You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. 'Lucent Echelon' - Gallente FW channel
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 124	Posted - 2014.08.15 12:39:00 - [46] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Killer's Coys wrote: Because of the other race. The idea increasing RoF for Assaults is a good idea, but for all assault. That's not balance add mor RoF for Gallente and not for others... Perhaps we should remove the Minmatar bonus then. Adding more clip size for them, but not others? The entire point of a bonus is to add something over other options... Ok, I think we don't speak the same language (because of me I think) Clip size = shoot LONGER Rof = shoot FASTER See the difference ? Clip size is an "help" But RoF to AR = if you want to play with the AR, it's obligatory to have the Gallente assault And not. Assault bonus is hier to help the player, not to make him a better direct slayer. My other proposal Assault : +5% Clip Size light/sidearm weapon per vele + 5% PG/CPU reduction to light/sidearm/grenade weapon Caldari : +5% reduction kick to rail weapon per level OR +5% reduction charge time to rail per level Gallente : +5% reduction kick to blaster/plasma per level Minma : +10% max ammo to projectil/explosive per level Amarr : +5% heat reduction to laser per level Assault : Assaults are slayers, the are on the battlefront. Have a better clip size means you can kill more and more ennemies without reload, and so without risk to be killed Caldari : Rail has a lot of kick, reduce it and have a better stability Gallente : The Assault Rifle hasn't a lot of kick, so this bonus means AR would no have kick any more. Very usefull against far ennemies Minmatar : More clip size (assault bonus) but the problem with the CR is the ammo, The RoF is so large that you haven't ammo any more after a few fights. Amarr : I don't have to explain why, this is the same bonus as now. Thought ? Logibro, you're my boy
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 16976	Posted - 2014.08.15 13:20:00 - [47] - Quote Killer's Coys wrote: But RoF to AR = if you want to play with the AR, it's obligatory to have the Gallente assault See, this is where we disagree. How does this make it 'obligatory' to use the Galassault? You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. 'Lucent Echelon' - Gallente FW channel
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 124	Posted - 2014.08.15 13:26:00 - [48] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Killer's Coys wrote: But RoF to AR = if you want to play with the AR, it's obligatory to have the Gallente assault See, this is where we disagree. How does this make it 'obligatory' to use the Galassault? Because... CR vs CR+minma bonus => nobody is sure to win Scrb vs Scrb+amarr bonus => nobody is sure to win RR vs RR+calda bonus => nobody is sure to win BUT AR vs AR+Gallente bonus (RoF) => the Gallente assault is sure to win That's why I don't want this. Logibro, you're my boy
Francois Sanchez What The French Red Whines. 74	Posted - 2014.08.15 13:39:00 - [49] - Quote Personally I love the gallente bonus as it is now. For the Caldari I can't say, I don't use RR often, but as a commando I can tell you the reload speed bonus does make a difference on nearly all the guns. I still think a kick reduction would be fine though.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 16977	Posted - 2014.08.15 13:41:00 - [50] - Quote Killer's Coys wrote: CR vs CR+minma bonus => nobody is sure to win Scrb vs Scrb+amarr bonus => nobody is sure to win RR vs RR+calda bonus => nobody is sure to win BUT AR vs AR+Gallente bonus (RoF) => the Gallente assault is sure to win That's why I don't want this. It's not sure to win, though...? There are already several examples of 10% damage bonuses in the game and damage mods, but they don't make the player 'sure to win'. All of those bonuses give you an advantage. The Amarr one allows you to shoot much more freely without worrying about overheat and use a charge shot volley that's extended enough to kill more targets. The Minmatar one allows you to shoot more freely and because the CR's only weakness is a short clip, it often lets you get kills you otherwise wouldn't get with it. The Calassault bonus is in the same boat as the Galassault one - it's pretty much worthless. 10% damage bonuses already exist - but they don't make the suits they're on instantly win. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. 'Lucent Echelon' - Gallente FW channel

Jack 3enimble Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 174	Posted - 2014.08.15 13:49:00 - [51] - Quote Reducing charge time for the Caldari has one major downside, it wil affect the charge sniper too. The results will be insta QQ and that would be rightious. Reduce the kick for the RR as assault bonus and it will be on par. The RR on the Cal assault should be better handling than the RR on other suits. Much like the Scr on the Amarr in comparison to the Scr on lets say the Cal. Both the Gal and Cal bonus are not on the same level as the Amarr and Min.
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 125	Posted - 2014.08.15 14:04:00 - [52] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: It's not sure to win, though...? There are already several examples of 10% damage bonuses in the game and damage mods, but they don't make the player 'sure to win'. All of those bonuses give you an advantage. The Amarr one allows you to shoot much more freely without worrying about overheat and use a charge shot volley that's extended enough to kill more targets. The Minmatar one allows you to shoot more freely and because the CR's only weakness is a short clip, it often lets you get kills you otherwise wouldn't get with it. The Calassault bonus is in the same boat as the Galassault one - it's pretty much worthless. 10% damage bonuses already exist - but they don't make the suits they're on instantly win. Sorry, I wasn't enought correct 1 vs 1 don't move just shoot, they begin shooting at the same time same HP The Gallente wins But if you take the Minma and Amarr They aren't sure to win But Gallente is sure That's what I wanna say Logibro, you're my boy
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1730	Posted - 2014.08.15 15:15:00 - [53] - Quote Killer's Coys wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: It's not sure to win, though...? There are already several examples of 10% damage bonuses in the game and damage mods, but they don't make the player 'sure to win'. All of those bonuses give you an advantage. The Amarr one allows you to shoot much more freely without worrying about overheat and use a charge shot volley that's extended enough to kill more targets. The Minmatar one allows you to shoot more freely and because the CR's only weakness is a short clip, it often lets you get kills you otherwise wouldn't get with it. The Calassault bonus is in the same boat as the Galassault one - it's pretty much worthless. 10% damage bonuses already exist - but they don't make the suits they're on instantly win. Sorry, I wasn't enought correct 1 vs 1 don't move just shoot, they begin shooting at the same time same HP The Gallente wins But if you take the Minma and Amarr They aren't sure to win But Gallente is sure That's what I wanna say Yes, that is true but it is far from a realistic example. When, in a game, would two players ever stand totally still, aim at eachother, start firing at the same time, and only stop when one is dead? Using this as the basis for your argument really doesn't create a compelling case. Additionally if any suit did this vs a commando with their preferred weapon the commando would already win. There are already other suits that incentivize using one type of weapon over others. If you have such an issue with this concept shouldn't you be arguing for the removal of the entire commando class as well as the Amarr assault bonus? Honestly, a 10% buff to RoF (2% per level) would be about as effective as the Amarr assault's bonus and isn't that the gold standard we should be aiming for? Even when all the other assault suits were widely regarded as awful (until charlie dropped) the Amarr assault was usable for PC, the area of the game where only the most competitive gear gets brought out. Fun > Realism
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 125	Posted - 2014.08.15 16:10:00 - [54] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: Yes, that is true but it is far from a realistic example. When, in a game, would two players ever stand totally still, aim at eachother, start firing at the same time, and only stop when one is dead? Using this as the basis for your argument really doesn't create a compelling case. Additionally if any suit did this vs a commando with their preferred weapon the commando would already win. There are already other suits that incentivize using one type of weapon over others. If you have such an issue with this concept shouldn't you be arguing for the removal of the entire commando class as well as the Amarr assault bonus? Honestly, a 10% buff to RoF (2% per level) would be about as effective as the Amarr assault's bonus and isn't that the gold standard we should be aiming for? Even when all the other assault suits were widely regarded as awful (until charlie dropped) the Amarr assault was usable for PC, the area of the game where only the most competitive gear gets brought out. I've used this concept to show you the difference between minma & amarr bonus vs Gallente bonus I know nobody will kill like that, this was a concept But Commando is commando Assault is assault So, Commando has +10% damage Let's give 10% RoF to....... ALL Assault I'm sorry, but ALL my friend who are Gallente assault agree with me, a RoF increase just for Gallente Assault would unbalance this game bewteen assault the only solution, if you really want a RoF increasing for your little AR, is to put this bonus to ALL assault. You campare a RoF increase to the Amarr bonus, so Amarr will not ruin if we give this bonus to assault ? I say it again, increase DPS just for Gallente Assault (with AR) is just an unbalanced idea People only want a cheated bonus to be the best slayer in this game, personnaly, I want to have a BALANCED game. The AR is good like now. Any need to increase the RoF for Gallente. Seriously, I don't understand how you can want a bonus like that just for 1 race, that's crazy... I don't want to create any conflict, just I say my opinion, and I think I'm right. => any RoF buff => RoF buff for all assault (put this bonus to assault bonus) Logibro, you're my boy
Scout Hunter II Inner.Hell 36	Posted - 2014.08.15 16:14:00 - [55] - Quote I think the recoil bonus would be really cool to have for the cal assault. CEO of Inner.Hell > Those who sacrifice freedom in the name of security, deserve neither.
Myron Kundera The Generals Anime Empire. 77	Posted - 2014.08.15 16:27:00 - [56] - Quote If the ROF or Range Increase proposals don-¦t pass, which i like in that order for Gallente Assault, at least give the current bonus when youre not hipfiring too, cause at the moment i think it only applies when hipfiring. Gallente Assault: 5% reduction to hybrid - blaster light/sidearm hip-fire dispersion and kick per level. "Greed, the forgotten mental disease" "Spray and pray makes my day" "Will use proto gear in self defense"
NextDark Knight Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 454	Posted - 2014.08.15 16:43:00 - [57] - Quote Caldari Assault bonus is fine.. Only thing needed is more ammo capacity. I find myself having to go find more ammo at least half the game. I could nerf my fit to do a better nano hive cause I can only fit a compact hive. Which if I use a grenade I used all my ammo refill. Forge Changes needed Officer Splash 3.0, Proto 2.7 Advanced 2.5 Standard 2.1. Original ROF needs to return!
Jack 3enimble Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 175	Posted - 2014.08.15 17:42:00 - [58] - Quote NextDark Knight wrote: Caldari Assault bonus is fine.. Only thing needed is more ammo capacity. I find myself having to go find more ammo at least half the game. I could nerf my fit to do a better nano hive cause I can only fit a compact hive. Which if I use a grenade I used all my ammo refill. Nerf your fit a bit to accept adv hives. It's what I did and works fine. The Cal need a bonus like the Amarr and Min that affects overall weapon performance. Kick reduction would be the best imho
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 125	Posted - 2014.08.15 18:10:00 - [59] - Quote Jack 3enimble wrote: NextDark Knight wrote: Caldari Assault bonus is fine.. Only thing needed is more ammo capacity. I find myself having to go find more ammo at least half the game. I could nerf my fit to do a better nano hive cause I can only fit a compact hive. Which if I use a grenade I used all my ammo refill. Nerf your fit a bit to accept adv hives. It's what I did and works fine. The Cal need a bonus like the Amarr and Min that affects overall weapon performance. Kick reduction would be the best imho Yes, I agree, but a charge time reduction would be fine too. That's difficult to choose :p But I personaly prefer the kick reduction But, I've thought, if Caldassault get a kick reduction to Rail weapon, It would be fine more range for the AR so With it, all weapon (with each good racial suit) could be fine for short and long range. Thought ? Logibro, you're my boy
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 17001	Posted - 2014.08.15 18:19:00 - [60] - Quote Killer's Coys wrote: Jack 3enimble wrote: NextDark Knight wrote: Caldari Assault bonus is fine.. Only thing needed is more ammo capacity. I find myself having to go find more ammo at least half the game. I could nerf my fit to do a better nano hive cause I can only fit a compact hive. Which if I use a grenade I used all my ammo refill. Nerf your fit a bit to accept adv hives. It's what I did and works fine. The Cal need a bonus like the Amarr and Min that affects overall weapon performance. Kick reduction would be the best imho Yes, I agree, but a charge time reduction would be fine too. That's difficult to choose :p But I personaly prefer the kick reduction But, I've thought, if Caldassault get a kick reduction to Rail weapon, It would be fine more range for the AR so With it, all weapon (with each good racial suit) could be fine for short and long range. Thought ? I would honestly prefer to see the range bonus, but I had thought the RoF bonus a popular idea so I included that. Before this thread was created I hadn't seen much talk about range bonuses, but I'd seen a fair few posts about a RoF bonus. I feel that a range bonus is in line with the other bonuses because it compensates for the main weakness of the weapon - just like the Amarr bonus compensates for overheat and the Minmatar bonus compensates for short clips. The Caldari bonus also kind of compensates for the slow reload of rail weaponry but it's just a lackluster bonus. Recoil probably suits the Caldari better because their weaponry actually does suffer from recoil. So essentially: Amarr bonus - compensates for overheat, the weakness of laser weaponry Minmatar bonus - compensates for short clips, the weakness of projectile weaponry Gallente bonus (if changed to range) - compensates for short range, the weakness of plasma weaponry Caldari bonus (if changed to recoil) - compensates for high recoil, the weakness of rail weaponry. Sound reasonable? You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. 'Lucent Echelon' - Gallente FW channel

ZDub 303 Escrow Removal and Acquisition 3207	Posted - 2014.08.15 19:10:00 - [61] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: So essentially: Amarr bonus - compensates for overheat, the weakness of laser weaponry Minmatar bonus - compensates for short clips, the weakness of projectile weaponry Gallente bonus (if changed to range) - compensates for short range, the weakness of plasma weaponry Caldari bonus (if changed to recoil) - compensates for high recoil, the weakness of rail weaponry. Sound reasonable? I think it sounds very reasonable myself. I'm all for consistency between races for each class. Something Dust has struggled with for a long while... B C R U are letters, not words - Wierd Al Yankovich
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 125	Posted - 2014.08.15 19:19:00 - [62] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: I would honestly prefer to see the range bonus, but I had thought the RoF bonus a popular idea so I included that. Before this thread was created I hadn't seen much talk about range bonuses, but I'd seen a fair few posts about a RoF bonus. I feel that a range bonus is in line with the other bonuses because it compensates for the main weakness of the weapon - just like the Amarr bonus compensates for overheat and the Minmatar bonus compensates for short clips. The Caldari bonus also kind of compensates for the slow reload of rail weaponry but it's just a lackluster bonus. Recoil probably suits the Caldari better because their weaponry actually does suffer from recoil. So essentially: Amarr bonus - compensates for overheat, the weakness of laser weaponry Minmatar bonus - compensates for short clips, the weakness of projectile weaponry Gallente bonus (if changed to range) - compensates for short range, the weakness of plasma weaponry Caldari bonus (if changed to recoil) - compensates for high recoil, the weakness of rail weaponry. Sound reasonable? Finally, I agree with you. I thought it was impossible Great, so can I make it ? - Caldari : 5% kick reduction to hybrid/rail weapon per level - Gallente : +5% range to hybrid/blaster weapon per level Is it ok for you ? Logibro, you're my boy
Jack 3enimble Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 179	Posted - 2014.08.15 20:24:00 - [63] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Killer's Coys wrote: Jack 3enimble wrote: NextDark Knight wrote: Caldari Assault bonus is fine.. Only thing needed is more ammo capacity. I find myself having to go find more ammo at least half the game. I could nerf my fit to do a better nano hive cause I can only fit a compact hive. Which if I use a grenade I used all my ammo refill. Nerf your fit a bit to accept adv hives. It's what I did and works fine. The Cal need a bonus like the Amarr and Min that affects overall weapon performance. Kick reduction would be the best imho Yes, I agree, but a charge time reduction would be fine too. That's difficult to choose :p But I personaly prefer the kick reduction But, I've thought, if Caldassault get a kick reduction to Rail weapon, It would be fine more range for the AR so With it, all weapon (with each good racial suit) could be fine for short and long range. Thought ? I would honestly prefer to see the range bonus, but I had thought the RoF bonus a popular idea so I included that. Before this thread was created I hadn't seen much talk about range bonuses, but I'd seen a fair few posts about a RoF bonus. I feel that a range bonus is in line with the other bonuses because it compensates for the main weakness of the weapon - just like the Amarr bonus compensates for overheat and the Minmatar bonus compensates for short clips. The Caldari bonus also kind of compensates for the slow reload of rail weaponry but it's just a lackluster bonus. Recoil probably suits the Caldari better because their weaponry actually does suffer from recoil. So essentially: Amarr bonus - compensates for overheat, the weakness of laser weaponry Minmatar bonus - compensates for short clips, the weakness of projectile weaponry Gallente bonus (if changed to range) - compensates for short range, the weakness of plasma weaponry Caldari bonus (if changed to recoil) - compensates for high recoil, the weakness of rail weaponry. Sound reasonable? Yes. Now I would like a CPM or DEV to comment on this
ZDub 303 Escrow Removal and Acquisition 3208	Posted - 2014.08.15 20:25:00 - [64] - Quote Killer's Coys wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: I would honestly prefer to see the range bonus, but I had thought the RoF bonus a popular idea so I included that. Before this thread was created I hadn't seen much talk about range bonuses, but I'd seen a fair few posts about a RoF bonus. I feel that a range bonus is in line with the other bonuses because it compensates for the main weakness of the weapon - just like the Amarr bonus compensates for overheat and the Minmatar bonus compensates for short clips. The Caldari bonus also kind of compensates for the slow reload of rail weaponry but it's just a lackluster bonus. Recoil probably suits the Caldari better because their weaponry actually does suffer from recoil. So essentially: Amarr bonus - compensates for overheat, the weakness of laser weaponry Minmatar bonus - compensates for short clips, the weakness of projectile weaponry Gallente bonus (if changed to range) - compensates for short range, the weakness of plasma weaponry Caldari bonus (if changed to recoil) - compensates for high recoil, the weakness of rail weaponry. Sound reasonable? Finally, I agree with you. I thought it was impossible Great, so can I make it ? - Caldari : 5% kick reduction to hybrid/rail weapon per level - Gallente : +5% range to hybrid/blaster weapon per level Is it ok for you ? That is what I recommended as well, but I think Arkena has a good point in that 5% maybe not be enough to matter. Considering how useful laser heat buildup and clip capacity can be for Amarr and Minmatar, those values may need to be bumped to 7-8% before they can be considered an equivalent contribution as the Am and Min bonuses. However, whatever we come up with is largely irrelevant and is more up Rattati/Logibro to determine which numbers will great enough of an impact to make those values an actual contribution to the assault playstyle. Just throwing your hat in the ring for kick redux and range bonus is what really matters imo. B C R U are letters, not words - Wierd Al Yankovich
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 126	Posted - 2014.08.15 20:32:00 - [65] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: That is what I recommended as well, but I think Arkena has a good point in that 5% maybe not be enough to matter. Considering how useful laser heat buildup and clip capacity can be for Amarr and Minmatar, those values may need to be bumped to 7-8% before they can be considered an equivalent contribution as the Am and Min bonuses. However, whatever we come up with is largely irrelevant and is more up Rattati/Logibro to determine which numbers will great enough of an impact to make those values an actual contribution to the assault playstyle. Just throwing your hat in the ring for kick redux and range bonus is what really matters imo. I don't know Actually, the AR has 45m range ? with bonus, it would become 56.25m, I think that's enough With 7% = 60.75m It's maybe a bit so much... But ... If a DEV wants more than 5%, 7% is the maximum I think, otherwise, AR could become a long range weapon. The objective is to increase the range, but not make it a long range weapon For me 5% is good 7% is the maximum available Logibro, you're my boy
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 17010	Posted - 2014.08.15 20:36:00 - [66] - Quote I think he was referring to the recoil bonus. 5% is fine for the range, IMO. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. 'Lucent Echelon' - Gallente FW channel
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 126	Posted - 2014.08.15 20:39:00 - [67] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: I think he was referring to the recoil bonus. 5% is fine for the range, IMO. Ho... recoil bonus for Caldassault ? And yeah, 5% is fine. Good. A CCP DEV come here ! Look at our proposal ! You have our futur assault bonus lol ! Logibro, you're my boy
Jack 3enimble Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 181	Posted - 2014.08.15 21:06:00 - [68] - Quote I think it's great that people who play different styles are constructively sparring with each other about the suit bonus without any sort of QQ and BS about it. You know the regular: Git gud, Fix your gameplay etc. LOL
zzZaXxx The Hundred Acre Hood 424	Posted - 2014.08.15 21:44:00 - [69] - Quote Amarr: bonus is golden Minmater: extend clip size bonus to explosive weapons Caldari: add a kick reduction bonus for rail weapons Gallente: change the kick reduction bonus to a range bonus (which, for the plasma cannon, translates as a velocity bonus, allowing it to shoot farther, faster) That is all.
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 126	Posted - 2014.08.15 21:46:00 - [70] - Quote zzZaXxx wrote: Amarr: bonus is golden Minmater: extend clip size bonus to explosive weapons Caldari: add a kick reduction bonus for rail weapons Gallente: change the kick reduction bonus to a range bonus (which, for the plasma cannon, translates as a velocity bonus, allowing it to shoot farther, faster) That is all. That's what we have said previously, with numbers But that's cool to see other people agree with us. Thank you for your opinion old bro Logibro, you're my boy

Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar Silver Bullet Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 744	Posted - 2014.08.15 22:53:00 - [71] - Quote i like your ideas on the caldari suit but i kinda like my gallente assault suit how it currently is.
Malleus Malificorum Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 74	Posted - 2014.08.15 23:22:00 - [72] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Malleus Malificorum wrote: If you make the gallente assault bonus something like RoF or even optimal range, it makes it so that the only 'viable' option for using the weapon becomes the assault - which should never be the case, those are things that should be addressed on the gun themselves. Should we remove the commando bonuses? All of them increase DPS. Does that mean they're the only viable option for using that weapon? No, it doesn't. There is no problem with the equivalent of 10% more damage. And if there's a problem with the bonus making weapons much more useful on the suit, perhaps we should remove the Amarr bonus? The bonus is so powerful that almost any serious SCR user goes to that suit. Quote: Assault bonuses should always be about performance, and while you can argue for days about min + amarr assault bonuses neither of them actually alter the DPS of a weapon all they do is allow you to shoot for longer. And yet they remain massively strong performance enhancers. If you're so dead set against DPS because somehow on the Galassault, unlike all other damage bonuses, it would make it 'the only viable option', optimal range doesn't increase DPS. It increases performance. Quote: If you were to add a kick reduction to the caldari, you still have a weapon with the same DPS, but improved performance. If you keep the current bonuses on the gallente, you have a weapon with the same dps, but improved performance. Except the current bonuses on the Gallente are so pathetic that it doesn't enhance performance. When has kick ever been a serious concern with the AR or shotgun? The hipfire difference is unnoticeable. Meanwhile, the Amarr and Minmatar bonuses are immediately noticeable as incredibly strong 'performance enhancers'. Quote: If the AR itself needs to be tweaked to bring it slightly more in line with other guns that's just fine, If SCR/RR/CR's need to be nerfed, that is also fine, but let's not shoehorn any one suit into outright being the best with them for any reason other than 'performance' or 'handling'. There are so many suits with strong bonuses to weapons that I genuinely can't understand how you can possibly think a 10% DPS increase would make it 'the only viable option' because it's blatantly not. The Amarr commando has a 10% damage bonus. Does that mean it's the only suit you see laser weaponry used on? No, it doesn't. Why would this one specific instance of a bonus break everything? Well to address the largest error in your thinking here, for a brief point of time the commando was the only 'viable' AR user, but it still wasn't common due to the obscene passive benefits afforded by the scout suits. Assuming all other things being equal, the vast majority of people will opt to take more dps which means that the commando was the choice. Amarr bonus at this point is kind of apples and oranges, yes the SCR is powerful (and even more so in the hands of an assault) I don't think that's a function of the assault suit being too good, but more the case of the SCR being too good. Optimal range is so touchy of an issue that I'm not even sure how to handle it as a bonus, I don't think there should ever be a suit that gives a bonus to optimal range as I feel it would become the mandatory choice for being competitive - we all saw what happened when the rail rifle was introduced, everyone used until it was nerfed it because range is king. I will agree that the optimal on AR's is probably too low, and the optimal on RR's is probably too high, but if changes need to be made they should be done directly to the weapons. If you're using a variant weapon like the TAC AR, kick and dispersion are serious issues and I find that the gallente assault bonus is perfect for them. I will agree that it can be of slightly less use on standard AR variants, however I know that one of the things that I love about lasers and SCR's is that they don't kick, even a transition from 'negligible' to 'none' can be a rather big but subtle difference. This 'one specific instance' would break things, because both of the bonuses that you want are incredibly frighteningly powerful, and while the amarr/min bonus are both powerful they don't reduce time to kill, but increase the duration that one is able to fight for.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 7250	Posted - 2014.08.16 00:53:00 - [73] - Quote Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar wrote: i like your ideas on the caldari suit but i kinda like my gallente assault suit how it currently is. The Gallente Assault bonus is a placebo effect, unless it's the Ion Pistol the bonus doesn't mean jack. Not even the Jove can stop me! Come at me you sleeping cowards! You're all the same to me, dead.
The True Inferno Myrmidon Syndicate 50	Posted - 2014.08.16 02:15:00 - [74] - Quote Personally, I really dislike the current bonuses for Assault, not because they aren't very useful, mainly because they lock you in using 1 weapon/weapon class. And yes I know "You can freaken fit a different weapon" but the skill act like a mental barrier, say I use the AR, but I skill into Caldari for the shields and went full proto, there would be the sink of over 2 million sp into the bonus of RR reload, which however crap it is, I would still want to make the most of my sp, so would start using the RR so I get the bonus. Though I would not be using my preferred weapon. Bonuses should not to an area of weapon or type of equipment, they should give a bonus to a range of things. Say for Caldari Assault, they would get a bonus to range(possible better effecting shorter ranges better than longer ranges or being a set bonus, say 10m maxed skill, not percentage) and a slight bonus to accuracy for all weapons, or Minimatar Assault, they would get a bonus to clip size and weapon reload for all weapons, this would make them quite powerful not just with a CR but with a Shotgun and Mass driver as well. New skills like this would provide dust with more freedom and stuff to do, and make the game overall, quite a bit more fun. ScP = GÖÑ Recent fat scout (sentinel w/shotty and cin-cats)
Chit Hoppened The Exemplars Top Men. 349	Posted - 2014.08.16 02:28:00 - [75] - Quote Cal - x% Reduction to Kick/lvl Gal - Something to make the Plasma Cannon ******* useful. Bringing Heavy Metal to New Eden. Cannon Fever Representative
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1731	Posted - 2014.08.16 03:16:00 - [76] - Quote I feel like at this point, with the vast majority of us agreeing on the bonuses for Cal and Gal assaults the Min Assault needs some more looking at. Its bonus is a good one but the suit still seems lackluster. Is this because of the HP and fittings or is it its bonus? Discuss. Fun > Realism
Jack 3enimble Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 187	Posted - 2014.08.16 03:23:00 - [77] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: I feel like at this point, with the vast majority of us agreeing on the bonuses for Cal and Gal assaults the Min Assault needs some more looking at. Its bonus is a good one but the suit still seems lackluster. Is this because of the HP and fittings or is it its bonus? Discuss. You're kidding right? Now with charlie everybody and their mothers are skilling into it. Neither the HP, fitting or bonus are a problem on that suit. Beast of a suit
Lightning35 Delta514 48TH SPECIAL OPERATIONS FORCE 50	Posted - 2014.08.16 13:34:00 - [78] - Quote You have a point. SPAWN.KILL.DIE.RESPAWN.
Jack 3enimble Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 202	Posted - 2014.08.16 20:59:00 - [79] - Quote Still no reaction from a DEV or CPM. I'll keep bumping this till it happens. It's rediculous, Features and Ideas is here for a reason. I don't think a thread like this should be ignored.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 17068	Posted - 2014.08.16 21:15:00 - [80] - Quote Jack 3enimble wrote: Still no reaction from a DEV or CPM. I'll keep bumping this till it happens. It's rediculous, Features and Ideas is here for a reason. I don't think a thread like this should be ignored. I believe the devs go through a quiet period after each patch. Still, I'm no stranger to having my threads ignored and there's nothing we can do about it. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. 'Lucent Echelon' - Gallente FW channel

taxi bastard uptown456 Dark Taboo 209	Posted - 2014.08.16 21:23:00 - [81] - Quote meh, if you want a range bonus for the gal suit, start it at 3% per level. i know it does not sound much but 15% can really make a big difference. 25% is too big IMO and as has been stated in this thread its better to start low and see how it goes, rather than high and nerf. little numbers often determine the affect of a engagement. with the caldari again 5% less kick ..... i still feel this could be too much and the combo would come OP. that 25% less kick could mean 50% more hits because of the easier use which is alot more DPS. i would prefer to see a 10% reduction per level in charge time of the RR as kick is the balancing factor of the RR.
General12912 Gallente Marine Corps 216	Posted - 2014.08.16 21:40:00 - [82] - Quote no matter how much you appease a group, they will always find something else to complain about im a Lv 5 Gallente Assault, and i think the current bonus the suit has is wonderful. there relly isnt a reason to change it. the OP said something about the reduced spread not effecting anything but the assault rifle (assault variant, if you will). i have to say WRONG. it effects the Ion Pistol as well, and i actually enjoy using it as my sidearm. the Caldari assault bonus if fine too. it allows faster reload speed so you can re-engage your target before they take cover. the only thing this that the Caldari Commando has the same ability along with rail-weapon damage bonus too, so there is a minute reason to change it. if the Caldari Assault bonus is to be changed, i'd say give it the same bonus the Gallente have, only with railgun weapons. weapons such as the Rail Rifle suffer alot from inaccuracy. Every suit Gk.0 <3 Gallente Federation Patriot
Jack 3enimble Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 205	Posted - 2014.08.16 22:40:00 - [83] - Quote General12912 wrote: no matter how much you appease a group, they will always find something else to complain about im a Lv 5 Gallente Assault, and i think the current bonus the suit has is wonderful. there relly isnt a reason to change it. the OP said something about the reduced spread not effecting anything but the assault rifle (assault variant, if you will). i have to say WRONG. it effects the Ion Pistol as well, and i actually enjoy using it as my sidearm. the Caldari assault bonus if fine too. it allows faster reload speed so you can re-engage your target before they take cover. the only thing this that the Caldari Commando has the same ability along with rail-weapon damage bonus too, so there is a minute reason to change it. if the Caldari Assault bonus is to be changed, i'd say give it the same bonus the Gallente have, only with railgun weapons. weapons such as the Rail Rifle suffer alot from inaccuracy. Do you play with the Cal assault on a daily basis? I say the inaccuracy of the RR is due to the heavy kick that no other rifle in this game has. I think a reduction in kick as a suit bonus makes it more accurate in sustained and precise fire.
Alam Storm S.A.S 22nd Regiment 69	Posted - 2014.08.17 01:59:00 - [84] - Quote i think the change to both caldari and gallente assault suit bonuses is a great idea i like the idea that caldari gets the recoil reduction but i specially love the idea of the gallente getting a small range buff. i have been a gallente assault since closed beta and i have always used the assault rifle. range has always been an issue but i always thought putting a red dot sight on the auto AR would defo improve the rifle but having a range buff defo is a better idea
Jack 3enimble Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 207	Posted - 2014.08.17 15:35:00 - [85] - Quote Alam Storm wrote: i think the change to both caldari and gallente assault suit bonuses is a great idea i like the idea that caldari gets the recoil reduction but i specially love the idea of the gallente getting a small range buff. i have been a gallente assault since closed beta and i have always used the assault rifle. range has always been an issue but i always thought putting a red dot sight on the auto AR would defo improve the rifle but having a range buff defo is a better idea Range is what the AR needs on the Gal assault to compete with the other racial weapons.
Alam Storm S.A.S 22nd Regiment 69	Posted - 2014.08.17 17:17:00 - [86] - Quote Jack 3enimble wrote: Alam Storm wrote: i think the change to both caldari and gallente assault suit bonuses is a great idea i like the idea that caldari gets the recoil reduction but i specially love the idea of the gallente getting a small range buff. i have been a gallente assault since closed beta and i have always used the assault rifle. range has always been an issue but i always thought putting a red dot sight on the auto AR would defo improve the rifle but having a range buff defo is a better idea Range is what the AR needs on the Gal assault to compete with the other racial weapons. thats what im saying having a range buff even a small one for a bonus will defo make a huge difference
Ghost Steps G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 2	Posted - 2014.08.17 19:56:00 - [87] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: The Gallente assault bonus is a little more difficult. Other than a flat damage bonus or something marginal, there's not really anything that would affect all three plasma weapons, mostly because the plasma cannon is so different in function. I think it's easier to consider bonuses for it if the plasma cannon is ignored. I have two suggestions for the Galassault bonus. Suggestion 1: A RoF increase. A popular idea on the forums is a 2% per level increase in RoF. This translates to a decent increase in DPS, which would augment the function of the AR, it being a CQC rifle designed to do a large amount of damage at short range. The benefits are most obvious for the assault rifle (perhaps excluding the TAR) but the shotgun also benefits. The shotgun proficiency skill was previously (unusually) a rate of fire bonus. Shotgun users felt this was a useful proficiency. Suggestion 2: A range increase. This sounds a little more unorthodox. Let me explain where I'm coming from. The reasoning behind this is for it to be much the same as the other bonuses. The Amarr weakness is overheat. The Minmatar weakness is a short clip. The Caldari weakness is charge time/recoil. All of these would be compensated for by the assault bonuses, if this change were to go through. The Gallente weakness is range. Hence, a range bonus on the assault would offset that. Do note that the bonused AR wouldn't disrupt the normal range distribution much even if the bonus was 25%. With a ~40m optimal, a 25% bonus would still not allow it to exceed the ~55m optimal of the combat rifle, but it would be a useful aid. So I would suggest a 5% per level bonus to optimal range for plasma weaponry. The shotgun is never going to outrange anything, but would benefit, especially the breach shotgun. The breach is a variant which has really fallen by the wayside lately, but having it be useful at perhaps even a 9m range would give it a little life support. Suggestion 2 is probably likely to prove unpopular, but failing that I would like to see suggestion 1. The Calassault bonus is really just terrible, unfortunately, and something really ought to be done about it. I would recomend a reload speed bonus for the galassault and more bullets (not on the clip size of course).
Jack 3enimble Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 208	Posted - 2014.08.17 22:10:00 - [88] - Quote Still no DEV or CPM reaction. I posted a link to this thread maybe we can get a reaction that way..
Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD 205	Posted - 2014.08.17 22:32:00 - [89] - Quote CCP hates gallente?! "Anybody order chaos?"
Temias Mercurial Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 165	Posted - 2014.08.18 03:44:00 - [90] - Quote This post is along the exact same lines of what I suggested in another thread (5th post down and continues), and similar numbers as well, along with the same suggestions of skill changes... https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2285192#post2285192 My apologies if I come off as an elitist, but I try to view things objectively, logically, and factually.

True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 12936	Posted - 2014.08.18 03:54:00 - [91] - Quote Bradric Banewolf wrote: CCP hates gallente?! HTFU they gave you tanks, DS, LAV, sockets, all of your racial content for the most part and you are still bitching. This game practically is EVE: Gallente-Caldari War Simulator You are looking at a dude with 3 racial weapons, no vehicles, no sockets, and no faith left that any of this will ever be implemented. "We were commanded us to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocent caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
Sly Marb0 Screaming Falcons 12	Posted - 2014.08.18 13:22:00 - [92] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Bradric Banewolf wrote: CCP hates gallente?! HTFU they gave you tanks, DS, LAV, sockets, all of your racial content for the most part and you are still bitching. This game practically is EVE: Gallente-Caldari War Simulator You are looking at a dude with 3 racial weapons, no vehicles, no sockets, and no faith left that any of this will ever be implemented. What is Legion?
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 17130	Posted - 2014.08.18 14:16:00 - [93] - Quote Sly Marb0 wrote: True Adamance wrote: Bradric Banewolf wrote: CCP hates gallente?! HTFU they gave you tanks, DS, LAV, sockets, all of your racial content for the most part and you are still bitching. This game practically is EVE: Gallente-Caldari War Simulator You are looking at a dude with 3 racial weapons, no vehicles, no sockets, and no faith left that any of this will ever be implemented. What is Legion? Nonexistent? You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. 'Lucent Echelon' - Gallente FW channel
BlazeXYZ xCosmic Voidx Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 153	Posted - 2014.08.18 23:44:00 - [94] - Quote I'm interested in a ROF increase for the AR. The Blazing Intellect Machine
Joel II X Dah Gods O Bacon 3081	Posted - 2014.08.20 00:26:00 - [95] - Quote Bump
Jack 3enimble Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 223	Posted - 2014.08.20 03:25:00 - [96] - Quote UPDATE i've talked to Cross Atu and Zatara and they will discuss this. Here's my thread in the Counsil's Chamber: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=172184&find=unread I've messaged Cross ingame and he looked at it too
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 17251	Posted - 2014.08.20 10:54:00 - [97] - Quote I've talked with Zatara as well, yeah. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. 'Lucent Echelon' - Gallente FW channel
Scar Scrilla 337	Posted - 2014.08.20 13:11:00 - [98] - Quote Alam Storm wrote: i think the change to both caldari and gallente assault suit bonuses is a great idea i like the idea that caldari gets the recoil reduction but i specially love the idea of the gallente getting a small range buff. i have been a gallente assault since closed beta and i have always used the assault rifle. range has always been an issue but i always thought putting a red dot sight on the auto AR would defo improve the rifle but having a range buff defo is a better idea That's what I thought too... If there just was an idea to implement a kind of scope or smthg as a GallAss+AR only bonus would be interesting...maybe a zoom increase of X% when ADSing with an AR or smthng. i know it sounds weird but it would certainly benefit the AR (except the TAC versions) "Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses" " ... or grab a shotgun and REs." - UN1TE
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 7321	Posted - 2014.08.20 13:16:00 - [99] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Bradric Banewolf wrote: CCP hates gallente?! HTFU they gave you tanks, DS, LAV, sockets, all of your racial content for the most part and you are still bitching. This game practically is EVE: Gallente-Caldari War Simulator You are looking at a dude with 3 racial weapons, no vehicles, no sockets, and no faith left that any of this will ever be implemented. we only have that stuff because we are at war with Caldari. You can't give a bad guy nothing to work with in a movie. That's just a terrible plot design waiting to happen. Lucent Echelon -The Brightest Ranks Gallente Faction Warfare Chanel
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 17303	Posted - 2014.08.21 15:21:00 - [100] - Quote Bump. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. 'Lucent Echelon' - Gallente FW channel

Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 7470	Posted - 2014.09.04 22:42:00 - [101] - Quote A RoF bonus would be the most premier bonus option for the Gallente while building in the Current dispersion and recoil bonus into the plasma rifles itself. Gallente Weaponry across the board experience the same exact problem no matter if it's a Large Blaster Turret, Small Blaster Turret or a handheld weapon. They just don't apply enough damage in their close range to make them worth running when there are better, more versatile options out there. Lucent Echelon -The Brightest Ranks Gallente Faction Warfare Chanel
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1267	Posted - 2014.09.04 23:15:00 - [102] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: A RoF bonus would be the most premier bonus option for the Gallente while building in the Current dispersion and recoil bonus into the plasma rifles itself. Gallente Weaponry across the board experience the same exact problem no matter if it's a Large Blaster Turret, Small Blaster Turret or a handheld weapon. They just don't apply enough damage in their close range to make them worth running when there are better, more versatile options out there. So ask for a damage buff to the weapon itself. There's a thread where you can do that. The problem with a RoF bonus is that it flat inflates dps - throwing away the balance we're at - it drops the TTK of the weapon in every situation. Range also increases the ability to project dps (one of the often complained about issues with the rail rifle), in essence both range and RoF are such psychotically powerful bonuses that only the mad or people who don't have a good grasp on balance would suggest them. The current gallente bonus is quite good for keeping your effective dps high while strafing in close quarters. The biggest 'problem' with the current gallente bonus is that it is an 'invisible' bonus - with the scr and the combat rifle you can quite easily see how much of a bonus you're getting it feels good because you can notice it. It's a lot harder to notice the current bonus even though it is incredibly powerful, even the caldari's reload bonus is easier to notice (and thus by extension 'feels good')... when 'invisible' bonuses crop up in game design they have to get to a point where they're almost overpowered in order to actually be valued. I've seen this happen in all sorts of games from castlevania curse of darkness (where the best 'pokemon' had a ton of invisible bonuses, but from what you were told in the stats screen they looked like crap) to games like league of legends and beyond. I firmly believe that if the AR needs a DPS or Range increase it should be done on the rifle itself rather than using one suit to prop up a flawed weapon (especially in manners that seem overtly harmful)... The SCR, Laser, Combat rifle and SMG don't require one to be skilled into the respective assaults in order to be good, it almost seems like it's mandatory to be good with the AR currently. When I mention overtly harmful, given two suits that have relatively similar HP values and assuming relatively similar accuracy and neither has the 'drop' on the other, you never have a clear favorite in a fight between the bonused suit and the unbonused suit (sure it might favor the assault slightly if a fight drags out) but if one were to give the gallente either a range or rof increase it would always be favored to win fights... This would not be balanced. I'm in favor of kick reduction for the Caldari, as it gives them a slight performance edge with their rail weaponry that applies fairly well to rr, sniper, magsec and bolt pistol. As for the gallente, I feel that their current bonus is powerful for cqc though if weapons change so that kick + dispersion provided by the suit (practically necessary for the ion pistol and the TAR right now) reload + dispersion would be an acceptable substitute (allowing you to still be accurate while strafing in close quarters). Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11985	Posted - 2014.09.05 04:59:00 - [103] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: A RoF bonus would be the most premier bonus option for the Gallente while building in the Current dispersion and recoil bonus into the plasma rifles itself. Gallente Weaponry across the board experience the same exact problem no matter if it's a Large Blaster Turret, Small Blaster Turret or a handheld weapon. They just don't apply enough damage in their close range to make them worth running when there are better, more versatile options out there. So ask for a damage buff to the weapon itself. There's a thread where you can do that. The problem with a RoF bonus is that it flat inflates dps - throwing away the balance we're at - it drops the TTK of the weapon in every situation. Range also increases the ability to project dps (one of the often complained about issues with the rail rifle), in essence both range and RoF are such psychotically powerful bonuses that only the mad or people who don't have a good grasp on balance would suggest them. The current gallente bonus is quite good for keeping your effective dps high while strafing in close quarters. The biggest 'problem' with the current gallente bonus is that it is an 'invisible' bonus - with the scr and the combat rifle you can quite easily see how much of a bonus you're getting it feels good because you can notice it. It's a lot harder to notice the current bonus even though it is incredibly powerful, even the caldari's reload bonus is easier to notice (and thus by extension 'feels good')... when 'invisible' bonuses crop up in game design they have to get to a point where they're almost overpowered in order to actually be valued. I've seen this happen in all sorts of games from castlevania curse of darkness (where the best 'pokemon' had a ton of invisible bonuses, but from what you were told in the stats screen they looked like crap) to games like league of legends and beyond. I firmly believe that if the AR needs a DPS or Range increase it should be done on the rifle itself rather than using one suit to prop up a flawed weapon (especially in manners that seem overtly harmful)... The SCR, Laser, Combat rifle and SMG don't require one to be skilled into the respective assaults in order to be good, it almost seems like it's mandatory to be good with the AR currently. When I mention overtly harmful, given two suits that have relatively similar HP values and assuming relatively similar accuracy and neither has the 'drop' on the other, you never have a clear favorite in a fight between the bonused suit and the unbonused suit (sure it might favor the assault slightly if a fight drags out) but if one were to give the gallente either a range or rof increase it would always be favored to win fights... This would not be balanced. I'm in favor of kick reduction for the Caldari, as it gives them a slight performance edge with their rail weaponry that applies fairly well to rr, sniper, magsec and bolt pistol. As for the gallente, I feel that their current bonus is powerful for cqc though if weapons change so that kick + dispersion provided by the suit (practically necessary for the ion pistol and the TAR right now) reload + dispersion would be an acceptable substitute (allowing you to still be accurate while strafing in close quarters). So... Either you keep your existing damage on target (Gallente), or you get an extra 500-600 damage per clip effectively allowing you to miss quite a few times and still have the same damage the rifle applies normally. If you don't miss, then you get an extra 500-600 damage. See the issue? I do not see how a ROF or a range increase is more powerful than an extra 500-600 damage per clip. Both have their uses. What I see in your post is someone being touchy over previously large issues (TTK and Sharpshooter), which in this situation, won't really be a problem. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Indy Strizer Like A Moth To A Flame 157	Posted - 2014.10.08 05:00:00 - [104] - Quote Bump. After letting my thoughts on this ferment, the hotfixes and balance passes for assaults were implemented have passed, I'm leaning more towards the idea of making the bonuses compensate for each racial rifle's weakness. My previous ideas were basically modeled around my perception of the Amarr bonus, that is, it enables you to spam that laser goodness a bit more. I think my ideas would get too powerful and we'd end up at square one all over again, but even more importantly, it would not necessarily make the assault any better at... Assaulting... That is... Aggressively taking on people on such. The bonus for Amarr enables the Amarr to use the scrambler a bit more aggressively and confrontationally without having to worry about overheating. I really like the idea of range extension for Gallente and I'm personally leaning more towards reduced spool time for the Caldari than reduced recoil. I would miss the rapid reload honestly. I'm curious what others think of possibly getting two bonuses? I know it sounds selfish, but hey, it only applies to one weapon after all.
The Master Race Immortal Guides 89	Posted - 2014.10.08 05:48:00 - [105] - Quote Decreasing dispersion does increase range while it doesn't change the damage drop off it does make it able to hit. Dispersion is still the biggest issue when looking at the AR and ionp; I would rather the current bonus increased. As it is the Ar and ionp are completely unreliable even at close range increasing there range in taking away the current bonus would just be a cruel tease. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 156	Posted - 2014.10.08 05:48:00 - [106] - Quote Decreasing dispersion does increase range while it doesn't change the damage drop off it does make it able to hit. Dispersion is still the biggest issue when looking at the AR and ionp; I would rather the current bonus increased. As it is the Ar and ionp are completely unreliable even at close range increasing there range in taking away the current bonus would just be a cruel tease. The miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.Im a wizard
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1904	Posted - 2014.10.08 07:28:00 - [107] - Quote The Master Race wrote: Decreasing dispersion does increase range while it doesn't change the damage drop off it does make it able to hit. Dispersion is still the biggest issue when looking at the AR and ionp; I would rather the current bonus increased. As it is the Ar and ionp are completely unreliable even at close range increasing there range in taking away the current bonus would just be a cruel tease. The thing is, at ranges where dropoff becomes a factor, you can simply aim down your sights and remve all dispersion and kick for up to 25 rounds. if you feather the trigger, you never have t worry about dispersion. Range is a good area, because part of what makes the rifle underperform is every other rifle can kill it before it gets into optimal. This alleviates that. I'm all for a recoil reduction on CalAssault. Listen to my muscle memory Contemplate what I've been clinging to Forty-six and two ahead of me
The Master Race Immortal Guides 90	Posted - 2014.10.08 08:08:00 - [108] - Quote Did you guys just act like the rail rifle isn't retardeadly op jesus get real guys I would take a mil RR over my gal assalts proto AR any day in fact I often do. Jesus stop fronting you have no skill and your over power weapon carries your fail asses. Now we should talk about bad the dispersion, range, and recoil is on the CR. 8b I am tired of when I wave my hand in front of the screen people are not die jesus ccp you nerfed it to death. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 156	Posted - 2014.10.08 08:08:00 - [109] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: [ The thing is, at ranges where dropoff becomes a factor, you can simply aim down your sights and remve all dispersion and kick for up to 25 rounds. if you feather the trigger, you never have t worry about dispersion. Range is a good area, because part of what makes the rifle underperform is every other rifle can kill it before it gets into optimal. This alleviates that. I'm all for a recoil reduction on CalAssault. Range would be very helpful, but depending on rng you can't even hit someone in front of you half the time as it is with the current bonuses. The very best part is their are so many variants of the AR and they are all so bad. I bet the tac is great if you cheat with turbo though. Did you guys just act like the rail rifle isn't retardeadly op jesus get real guys I would take a mil RR over my gal assalts proto AR any day in fact I often do. Jesus stop fronting you have no skill and your over power weapon carries your fail asses. Now we should talk about bad the dispersion, range, and recoil is on the CR. 8b I am tired of when I wave my hand in front of the screen people are not die jesus ccp you nerfed it to death. The miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.Im a wizard
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game RUST415 1329	Posted - 2014.10.08 17:17:00 - [110] - Quote I won't rant Vs the playerbases view... I'd just be ganked Ck,0 Assault - Reload Bonus If you fight CQ with Caldari weapons (Rail/Assault Rail and Bolt/MSMG) The reload bonus is good. It allows me to empty my ARR clip, reload and engage again without giving the enemy time to close the range As the first reply to thread states .. mercs want slaying power way to much.. That is shown by the players constant ask for Buffs to anything they can't slay with. I use the Ck,0 to support my team in fire fights, covering them as they advance.. and I like it The only Issue is fitting layout, making a fit to match the other assaults 1v1 can be tricky As they will all HP tank better than the Ck,0 while having more use of Armour rep support Prior to the Cal Assault having the reload bonus I had no SP invested in it or the Cal weapons, Upon originally using the Bolt Pistol, I specc'd into L5 Rail L5 Bolt L5 Assault.. To combine the weapons with the suit bonus and it is a good fit with the exception Of Heavies/Scouts being the bane of Assaults at times.... most of the time CCP please consider fools like me before altering the Assaults, I don't want to be punished for spending my SP on something that is not OP (prior to hotfix: EZ modeBP) and take note that some mercs want DPS, kill, kill, kill, but a rare few actually enjoy 'fighting' as opposed to ... DESTROY ALL CLONES with OP weapons within 5 minutes .. followed by asking, 'why does no-one play Dust anymore' Innapropriate Irrelevence... Welcome to the Dust Forum, hang around to see why everyone else left :/

Atiim 13142	Posted - 2014.10.22 17:30:00 - [111] - Quote Bump. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1431	Posted - 2014.10.22 17:46:00 - [112] - Quote Atiim wrote: Bump. Let the thread stay dead, it doesn't need to exist when there's Cross Atu's thread. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Atiim 13142	Posted - 2014.10.22 17:49:00 - [113] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Atiim wrote: Bump. Let the thread stay dead, it doesn't need to exist when there's Cross Atu's thread. Truth be told, I bumped the wrong thread. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND


Pages: 1 2 3 4 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online/DUST514, the EVE/DUST514 logo, EVE/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to OMG Labs to use EVE Online/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, OMG Labs. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.