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Tanks and Dropships take the same damage. Explain CCP

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Sir Snugglz Red Star. EoN. 848	Posted - 2014.06.27 17:32:00 - [151] - Quote vehicles in general are suppose to have special resistances to certain weapons. Unfortunately that is not the case. They all have the same resistance to every weapon. Similar to the dropsuits, heavies have resistance to explosive stuff, i think commandoes have resistances to hybrid weapons... you get the idea. Derpships and tanks were suppose to have special resistances to swarms and forges. where one did less damage while the other weapon did a bit more to one vehicle than the other. These numbers were never fixed. But back in 1.6-1.7, the "correct" resistance (effectiveness) number would show even though the damage did not coincide with that number because the actual resistance was not being applied. Currently only the shield and armor resistances exist, no vehicle resistances. The vehicle resistances need to be added. -Pro AFKing LVL 5 -Luck is just one of my skills -Just because I make flying look easy doesn't mean it is
Atiim NoGameNoLife 9913	Posted - 2014.06.27 19:47:00 - [152] - Quote Sir Snugglz wrote: vehicles in general are suppose to have special resistances to certain weapons. Unfortunately that is not the case. They all have the same resistance to every weapon. Source? Sir Snugglz wrote: Similar to the dropsuits, heavies have resistance to explosive stuff, i think commandoes have resistances to hybrid weapons... you get the idea. Commandos don't have any resistances to weapon damages. However, if we were going to base resistances on how they are with Dropsuits, only the HAVs would receive resistance bonuses, not the ADS. Sir Snugglz wrote: Derpships and tanks were suppose to have special resistances to swarms and forges. where one did less damage while the other weapon did a bit more to one vehicle than the other. Again, source? Sir Snugglz wrote: These numbers were never fixed. But back in 1.6-1.7, the "correct" resistance (effectiveness) number would show even though the damage did not coincide with that number because the actual resistance was not being applied. If your referring to the 55% efficiency Swarm Launchers had against Dropships, then the resistance was indeed being applied. However, that was (openly stated by CCP) a glitch, and was fully addressed in Hotfix Bravo. Sir Snugglz wrote: Currently only the shield and armor resistances exist, no vehicle resistances. The vehicle resistances need to be added. And why do they need to be introduced? What purpose would that serve other than to make AV ineffective against Dropships (and other vehicles as well). I'm starting to think that ADS pilots are becoming a bit too entitled. NoLifing DUST for the Officer Swarm Launcher. "Many things in life are subjective, morality is one of them..." -HAND
Atiim NoGameNoLife 9914	Posted - 2014.06.27 20:03:00 - [153] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: Swarms haven't changed. You just take normal damage now. If you stick around you should die why is that a hard concept to grasp? Why is it a hard concept to grasp that a weapon that requires no aim shouldn't be incredibly effective? Should it be useful? Sure. Should a single ADV swarm neuter a dropship? Or anything? No. At least forge guns require skill to operate Swarm Launchers do require skill to use. NoLifing DUST for the Officer Swarm Launcher. "Many things in life are subjective, morality is one of them..." -HAND
trollface dot jpg The Bacon Corporation 167	Posted - 2014.06.27 20:06:00 - [154] - Quote Atiim wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Can I ask you this question : If AV hits tanks and dropships for the same damage. Yet one can have vastly more HP than the other does this seem like a fair balance or not? I think it's fair in the sense that the ADS is better in terms of speed and maneuverability, while the HAV has less speed and torque in comparison. A similar balance model is found in Infantry, where weapons deal the same amount of damage to a target regardless of frame, but is balanced in the sense that the lighter the frame, the better the chances it has at evading danger. What exactly are you trying to say? ^This. Also, why are you trying to make CCP bust the game again by messing with damage resistances again? If you want an eHP bump, don't beat around the bush by calling it a resistance bonus, ask for a freakin' eHP bonus. Also, no to flying vehicles with comparable eHP to tanks, OHK missiles (2HK's with rails) that can out run swarms and GTFO of AV's reach in less than 5 seconds. Lastly, slow down tanks. Working at cutting through all that eHP means jackshit when it can get gone almost as fast as an ADS and has full advantage of all ground objects for catching swarms and blocking forge/ PLC shots. (granted the tank's options for directions to leave by are much more limited) RIP MAG, you will be missed. MAG Vet ~ Raven
Baal Omniscient Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1842	Posted - 2014.06.27 20:24:00 - [155] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: Difference is it only hurts vehicles and installations, so it should be as effective as it is. It would just be nice if they had to try, even just a little. Sorry buddy, but I DO try. With an SMG I have to try to beat every Cal-Scout, Gal-Scout, heavy, RR roof camper, ScR cloaker, RE Minja and armor tanked assault that see's me firing my giant flare gun off into the air hoping to scare a vehicle off of my team because these days only 1 out of every 20 vehicles actually sticks around to fight, and that 1 is usually a triple hardened Gunloggi. 90% of my time spent in my AV fit is spent fighting off infantry so I can TRY to get a shot off before getting RE'd or cloak-shottied in the back. If it was a straight up fight between a vehicle and 2 AV guys I might agree (or if the swarm had SOME form of anti-infantry use I might agree) but it never is unless the ADS's team is just plain terrible. The swarm is a tactical AV weapon, requiring you to position yourself in a "safe" place and be smart about when and where and in what direction you fire. You have to be good enough to survive against infantry with only a sidearm and be especially careful (or lucky enough) not to get surrounded by or to turn the corner on a group of enemies, meaning you have to have GREAT situational awareness to do really well. In the sky you have to worry about vehicle turrets, forge guns, swarms and the occasional PLC hotshot. On the ground, the swarmer has to worry about all of that PLUS every other weapon in the game, including campers using the same AV that's hitting you in the air, without a main weapon to fight back with. PSN ID: AlbelNox2569 Cross Atu for CPM1 Winmatar Assault & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0
DUST Fiend Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 14481	Posted - 2014.06.27 20:35:00 - [156] - Quote Vehicles don't stick around because they're dead if they do. You have to just make passes and gtfo or everyone and their grandma will blast you into nothing. The things you mention for swarm launchers generally apply to forge guns as well, though in some cases you can slug it out with infantry using a forge gun. It would be really nice if every actual AV weapon wasn't anti armor lol. It's just disheartening when a single ADV swarm launcher can punch straight through all your armor in no time flat because hardeners are a joke and even reps are pretty pointless now. I rarely ever hug the flight ceiling, and now you basically have to. There's no reason to act as troop transport in most cases in this game, as it's just a liability to you as a pilot, now more than ever. You can't sit still at all, so yet again, missiles rain supreme because you will never ever be able to use rails or blasters against infantry effectively, even with a proper first person cam. As if it wasn't bad enough trying to run side guns before with paper fits, now you're just begging to get shot down by anyone with 200k sp and 50k ISK. I'm really thankful for the ISK Baal and I'm not trying to bash on your craft, but after watching how fast my armor vanished to an ADV swarm, I have lost all desire to fly right now. Go Python or go home.
ZDub 303 Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dirt Nap Squad. 3071	Posted - 2014.06.27 20:43:00 - [157] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: I see absolutely no reason to increase dropship resistance to AV other than to make things inconsistent and confusing for non theorycrafters. Or decrease.... A tiny tweak in resistance can really help the fine tuning, It helps add to the variables other than say just missile base damage, or missile count. I understand your point about using resistances as a tool for fine tuning ehp... but resistance has some serious consequences that need to be taken into account before being changed. By changing base resistance you mess with the efficacy of almost every module that exists. HP modules become worth more automatically, repair modules the same. Resistance modules become worth less as base resistance acts in a similar manner as natural diminishing returns on hardeners. I would highly suggest the devs to be very careful when tuning based on resistances vs. base hp. Is it a tool? Possibly, but it may be more trouble than its worth to deal with. If anything I would support adding in skills to increase base resistance. HAV Operation should have one for sure, possibly Dropship Operation as well. Or Marauder variants should be added instead, either way. In this case though, its easy to see where that resistance is coming from and why its there. Just saying a vehicle should have modified resistance simply because its a specific type of vehicle? I think its a bad idea. If there was different classifications of AV, I could see it. Light AV vs Heavy AV for example, with associated resistances based on vehicle type. Once again, there is a clear distinction for its presence and not 'just cause I felt like it'.
Delta 749 Kestrel Reconnaissance 3052	Posted - 2014.06.27 20:43:00 - [158] - Quote Anyone else like how he flip flopped saying now drop ships should have less defense against swarms since the crowd turned against him
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 2342	Posted - 2014.06.27 20:46:00 - [159] - Quote Delta 749 wrote: Anyone else like how he flip flopped saying now drop ships should have less defense against swarms since the crowd turned against him GO read the OP. Stop, then read it again. Then explain to me, so I know you read it the difference between damage profiles and Defence and why they are so different when it comes to balance. Judge For CPM 1 youtube Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
ZDub 303 Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dirt Nap Squad. 3072	Posted - 2014.06.27 20:50:00 - [160] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Delta 749 wrote: Anyone else like how he flip flopped saying now drop ships should have less defense against swarms since the crowd turned against him GO read the OP. Stop, then read it again. Then explain to me, so I know you read it the difference between damage profiles and Defence and why they are so different when it comes to balance. You need to better explain your original post. If AV is balanced around one vehicle vs another. How is it unbalanced? Your thread would go over with even some basic quantitative explanation of your post. It just sounds like you're whining that AV is OP against your ADS.

DUST Fiend Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 14482	Posted - 2014.06.27 20:52:00 - [161] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Delta 749 wrote: Anyone else like how he flip flopped saying now drop ships should have less defense against swarms since the crowd turned against him GO read the OP. Stop, then read it again. Then explain to me, so I know you read it the difference between damage profiles and Defence and why they are so different when it comes to balance. You need to better explain your original post. I've AV is balanced around one vehicle vs another. How is it unbalanced? Your thread would go over with even some basic quantitative explanation of your post. It just sounds like you're whining that AV is OP against your ADS. Double the cost of HAVs with less HP. Seems everyones answer is fly around in circles with an AB the whole match.
Delta 749 Kestrel Reconnaissance 3053	Posted - 2014.06.27 20:52:00 - [162] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Delta 749 wrote: Anyone else like how he flip flopped saying now drop ships should have less defense against swarms since the crowd turned against him GO read the OP. Stop, then read it again. Then explain to me, so I know you read it the difference between damage profiles and Defence and why they are so different when it comes to balance. "If AV hits tanks and dropships for the same damage. Yet one can have vastly more HP than the other does this seem like a fair balance or not?" First page, from you, saying things are unfair for drop ships because they take the same damage and the rest of the thread is you saying it needs to be fair Only when people are overwhelmingly speaking against arbitrary bonuses to drop ships do you specify that you want DS defenses nerfed and say it was all just tweaking damage profiles and you didnt really want a buff in which case that was something that could have been clearly and easily specified in your OP rather than saying it after the fact which looks bad on you Got caught with your hand in the cookie jar mate, you could at least man up to it and not try this mealy mouthed BS to worm your way back to public favor
Atiim EnvyUs. 9917	Posted - 2014.06.27 20:56:00 - [163] - Quote trollface dot jpg wrote: Also, no to flying vehicles with comparable eHP to tanks, OHK missiles (2HK's with rails) that can out run swarms and GTFO of AV's reach in less than 5 seconds. [...] To put this into a more detailed perspective, lets look at the numbers. Air Speed of Incubus: 50m/s Air Speed of Python: 75m/s Air Speed bonus given by Afterburners: 150%m/s Lock Range of Swarm Launchers: 175m Absolute Range of Forge Gun: 300m Absolute Range of 80GJ Railgun: 300m Absolute Range of 80GJ Blaster: 300m So with that in mind, an Incubus with an Afterburner moves at 75m/s, and a Python moves at 112.5m/s. Meaning, that it takes an Incubus 2.3s to evade SLs, and 4s to -completely- (I put emphasis on the completely because being hitting an ADS at ranges such as 290m is not likely) evade every other AV weapons. As for Pythons, they can evade a SL's lock range in 1.5s, and completely evade every other AV weapon in 2.6s. Now let's compare that to HAVs. Movement Speed of Gunnlogi: 19.5m/s Movement Speed of Madrugar: 22.5m/s Movement Speed bonus given by Fuel Injectors: 25%m/s Now with that in mind, the Gunnlogi can evade a SL's lock range in 7.2s, and every other AV weapon in 12s. Madrugars on the other hand, can evade a SL's lock range in 6.2s, and every other AV weapon in 10.6s. Now that I've done my explanations, I'll quickly recap on what the numbers I've given. Evasion time of vehicles (Swarm Lock Range / AV Absolute Range) Incubus (2.3s / 4s) Python (1.5s / 2.6s) Gunnlogi (7.2s / 12s) Madrugar (6.2s / 10.6s) What does this mean you ask? It means that the Assault Dropship has a far greater than the HAV, because it can evade fire (or lock) from AV weapons far faster (and easier) than the Heavy Attack Vehicles. This, is what justifies the lower HP A/DSs have when compared to their HAV counterparts. Just like the Scouts/Light Frames (though in correlation to Dropsuit Frame sizes, ADSs would actually fall under the Medium Frame category), you sacrifice HP for an increased ability to evade danger. If you want to have resistances which allows you to "tank" through more damage, then you should be forced to sacrifice more speed as well. [Source: ProtoFits] NoLifing DUST for the Officer Swarm Launcher. "Many things in life are subjective, morality is one of them..." -HAND
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 2342	Posted - 2014.06.27 21:13:00 - [164] - Quote Delta 749 wrote: First page, from you, saying things are unfair for drop ships because they take the same damage and the rest of the thread is you saying it needs to be fairr Nope. You still don't quite get it. Look at the op. I never mentioned dropship weakness in it at all. Then look at my next post where I offer more clarification. I did not mention that things were unfair for dropships. None of those words are there. I never flip flop either. My posts on the first page clearly outline my topic. The stuff you are talking about is from other people putting their words into my mouth. I actually say this " If swarms or Forges are balanced against tanks, then they are not against dropships. If they are fair against dropships then they are not against tanks." See how I do not favor tanks or dropships here. I am talking about total vehicle balance. Judge For CPM 1 youtube Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
Delta 749 Kestrel Reconnaissance 3054	Posted - 2014.06.27 21:19:00 - [165] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Delta 749 wrote: First page, from you, saying things are unfair for drop ships because they take the same damage and the rest of the thread is you saying it needs to be fairr Nope. You still don't quite get it. Look at the op. I never mentioned dropship weakness in it at all. Then look at my next post where I offer more clarification. I did not mention that things were unfair for dropships. None of those words are there. I never flip flop either. My posts on the first page clearly outline my topic. The stuff you are talking about is from other people putting their words into my mouth. I actually say this " If swarms or Forges are balanced against tanks, then they are not against dropships. If they are fair against dropships then they are not against tanks." See how I do not favor tanks or dropships here. I am talking about total vehicle balance. From the rest of OP "So a forge or swarm does the same damage to a dropship as it does to a tank. So CCP. Explain how you feel that two vehicles that have vastly different effective Hit Points should take the same damage from AV? I defies logic." This combined with the rest of OP which you were so kind to quote clearly implies you think there is an imbalance and unfairness in the system because both vehicles receive the same amount of damage despite having different EHP totals Of course this is all ignoring the fact that differing EHP totals means there is absolutely no need for damage resistances to be implemented at all to make DS more vulnerable as you later tried to say since by virtue of having a lower EHP they have a lower defense against these weapons which kills the argument that you tried to make later on in this thread leaving only you saying, essentially, I dont want to die as much and heres some convoluted reasoning to hide that fact Hand, cookie jar, etc etc
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 2342	Posted - 2014.06.27 21:22:00 - [166] - Quote I give up. If you can get that from the OP then I do not think it is possible to continue this discussion with you. YOu seem to be reading words that are in your head,not on the screen. Judge For CPM 1 youtube Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
Delta 749 Kestrel Reconnaissance 3054	Posted - 2014.06.27 21:26:00 - [167] - Quote See now try bowing out with less self righteous whining, people will respect you more
Baal Omniscient Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1844	Posted - 2014.06.27 21:51:00 - [168] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Vehicles don't stick around because they're dead if they do. You have to just make passes and gtfo or everyone and their grandma will blast you into nothing. The things you mention for swarm launchers generally apply to forge guns as well, though in some cases you can slug it out with infantry using a forge gun. It would be really nice if every actual AV weapon wasn't anti armor lol. It's just disheartening when a single ADV swarm launcher can punch straight through all your armor in no time flat because hardeners are a joke and even reps are pretty pointless now. I rarely ever hug the flight ceiling, and now you basically have to. There's no reason to act as troop transport in most cases in this game, as it's just a liability to you as a pilot, now more than ever. You can't sit still at all, so yet again, missiles rain supreme because you will never ever be able to use rails or blasters against infantry effectively, even with a proper first person cam. As if it wasn't bad enough trying to run side guns before with paper fits, now you're just begging to get shot down by anyone with 200k sp and 50k ISK. I'm really thankful for the ISK Baal and I'm not trying to bash on your craft, but after watching how fast my armor vanished to an ADV swarm, I have lost all desire to fly right now. Go Python or go home. I completely understand where you are coming from with this, as I've been toying with ADS's myself using only basic modules and next to no core skills. I try my best to not bash ADS pilots (I've failed a few times recently due to a couple of them being overly arrogant and snooty, but i digress) as there is a lot of frustration for us to be had on the ground as well. Here's a story about life on the ground:You are engaging the enemy with your squad. It's a drag out fight, the enemy keeps spawning back faster than you can kill them off but you are holding your ground and keeping them pinned inside the letter.... and here comes an ADS blasting your squad to pieces from behind. You regroup with a couple of you pulling AV on a letter nearby ready to hit that letter as fast as you can, and in comes said enemy squad to the letter you just regrouped on ready for revenge, only now you have 2 guys with only sidearms. After some back-and-forth fighting to hold the point and the squad softens you up..... here comes the ADS again.... enemy squad takes the letter before you can all spawn back. So your whole squad pulls out AV in the ground spawn, hops in LAV's to go take out that ADS, and the forge camping a roof takes out one of your convoy and a tank pulls up to your other car as it gets into cover from the forge. The swarmers get 2 volley's off a piece, the forger stands too close to the LAV while charging and gets blown up with the car when the tank kills it, then the tank takes off. The swarmers attempt to chase the tank down... and then missiles start raining from the sky again.... Here's a story about life in the air, in the same battle: You see a group of blues having trouble with an enemy squad that is pushing in on their position, so you fly low and start pounding them with missiles, getting a kill and a couple of assists. As soon as the last red dies you are rocked hard to the side as a forge gunner on the roof next to you that hadn't rendered until just then charges another shot. You take off right as you hear swarms fire behind you. You activate your afterburner and make for the flight ceiling... right as the forge hits you again. It rocks your ship hrd to the side again, slowing it just enough that the swarms catch you and brush off what armor you had remaining. So you go pick up a forge gunner from your squad and set him on a HIGHER roof and he forge guns the other forger off of the other roof. Hooray, freedom! You see a scuffle around a letter below and drop down to give some cover fire, scoring a couple more assists and a few equipment kills. Suddenly, a large rail turret that no one blew up starts auto firing on you, tagging you twice before you can react and hit your afterburner. You tell your tanker squadmate about it as you hover at the flight ceiling recovering your HP. He rolls out and blows up the turret, only seconds later to request help with a bunch of AV chasing him down.... The life of ADS pilots and swarmers is pretty much the same. We could both choose to just run on the ground as infantry, but the playstyle we WANT is not here. As I said in another thread, this games needs either AI or capsuleer controlled drones of various sizes attacking the infantry on both sides. THIS would breathe life into the game as well as give vehicles and AV players something to do other than the same boring crap we do now (shoot at eachother). AV players AND vehicles could fight drones as well as each other, and bring some real utility to tanks, dropships and AV players in this low match-size game. Swarms and ADS currently: "I can grab a few points here and there, loose a crapton of ISK, MAYBE end up top 10, and be frustrated all match long unless the enemy completely sucks because I'm pretty much useless to my team." And after (Ik, not gonna happen...) Drones:"I'm fighting to keep the drones off of our infantry and to keep the enemy's vehicles and AV from killing drones near THEIR players. I have purpose!" PSN ID: AlbelNox2569 Cross Atu for CPM1 Winmatar Assault & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0
DUST Fiend Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 14484	Posted - 2014.06.27 21:57:00 - [169] - Quote I wish I had never immersed myself in the EVE universe. I would have picked Python instead of Incubus as its hands down 100% the superior ship. Flying Incubus now just feels like pain. As I've said numerous times before, you're one of the few swarm launchers I've ever feared because you actually use tactics and teamwork. I'm just disheartened by the state of things and I'm just counting down the days till the Destiny beta at this point. I'm just tired of this constant teeter totter that is DUST and I honestly just want off at this point. It's too much.
Baal Omniscient Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1845	Posted - 2014.06.27 22:08:00 - [170] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: I wish I had never immersed myself in the EVE universe. I would have picked Python instead of Incubus as its hands down 100% the superior ship. Flying Incubus now just feels like pain. As I've said numerous times before, you're one of the few swarm launchers I've ever feared because you actually use tactics and teamwork. I'm just disheartened by the state of things and I'm just counting down the days till the Destiny beta at this point. I'm just tired of this constant teeter totter that is DUST and I honestly just want off at this point. It's too much. Also, I came to DUST for Drones and massive planets, both of which will never happen in DUST I understand. If I had the IRL money I'd be on Destiny too when it hits.... unfortunately it's likely I'll be stuck in Dust until PS2 hits ps4..... There's so much wasted potential here, and so much capacity for community among the players, even with such a simple chat system setup. That in my opinion was the biggest success of CCP, putting this chat window system into an FPS game. If it weren't for it, this game wouldn't have lasted half as long. The connections that grew between the playerbase because of it is what has kept most of us here as long as we have been. And don't compliment me like that, you'll make me blush.... =( ^,_,^ )= PSN ID: AlbelNox2569 Cross Atu for CPM1 Winmatar Assault & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0

Yokal Bob NoGameNoLife 495	Posted - 2014.06.27 22:09:00 - [171] - Quote laughing that this thread actually exists assualt vehicle > heavy assault vehicle ^flies out of range > ^TANKS damage (duh) If its not anime, its not real
DUST Fiend Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 14486	Posted - 2014.06.27 22:17:00 - [172] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I wish I had never immersed myself in the EVE universe. I would have picked Python instead of Incubus as its hands down 100% the superior ship. Flying Incubus now just feels like pain. As I've said numerous times before, you're one of the few swarm launchers I've ever feared because you actually use tactics and teamwork. I'm just disheartened by the state of things and I'm just counting down the days till the Destiny beta at this point. I'm just tired of this constant teeter totter that is DUST and I honestly just want off at this point. It's too much. Also, I came to DUST for Drones and massive planets, both of which will never happen in DUST I understand. If I had the IRL money I'd be on Destiny too when it hits.... unfortunately it's likely I'll be stuck in Dust until PS2 hits ps4..... There's so much wasted potential here, and so much capacity for community among the players, even with such a simple chat system setup. That in my opinion was the biggest success of CCP, putting this chat window system into an FPS game. If it weren't for it, this game wouldn't have lasted half as long. The connections that grew between the playerbase because of it is what has kept most of us here as long as we have been. And don't compliment me like that, you'll make me blush.... =( ^,_,^ )= You only need $5 to get into the Destiny Beta, assuming you have a PS4. I actually thought PS2 was already on PS4, maybe I'll check it out on PC after all. I'm just getting a little bitterness out before I wander away from the game and forums again. I used to be this wicked fan of CCP and would talk them up to everyone and now I can't even stomach the thought of CCP lately. They have entirely turned me away. There are just too many awesome, high quality games coming down the pipe for me to care anymore. NO MANS SKY HAVE MY BABIES!!!!
Rubber Banndit Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2014.06.27 22:39:00 - [173] - Quote I think the biggest problem here, is that Dust Players are not, have not been, and will not be in a position to understand what the hell you are talking about if they have not played EVE. They just aren't versed in the Damage Resistance knowledge that would make proper balances possible to Dust(Legion). Especially the CoDbags who think "shoot gun=kill everything" they don't know about Amarr/Caldari and Minmatar/Gallente Alliances or what that means unless an EVE player told them or they did independent research. So, to the point, any discussions regarding: Balance, Resistance, or Effective Damage are lost on players who still haven't even left Beta testing and don't understand that this game will NEVER be a polished product, EVER. It's not OP or imbalanced because it's hard to kill with the weapon you choose to use as ALL the items that should be in the game simply aren't (Precision Rifles?) We probably will never have Amarr, Gallente or Minmatar Heavy AV (HMG is b a r e l y AV) not to mention any other Light AV other than Swarms and to a degree Plasma Cannons. remember, the current state of vehicles is only half finished because of the rollback a few months ago. so why are we trying to balance half a puzzle box? where's destructable environment, Mtacs, deployable turrets, 36v36 combat, player market, vehicle locks(real ones), NEW MAPS? Balance is not possible without a complete roster of assets
Baal Omniscient Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1845	Posted - 2014.06.27 22:42:00 - [174] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I wish I had never immersed myself in the EVE universe. I would have picked Python instead of Incubus as its hands down 100% the superior ship. Flying Incubus now just feels like pain. As I've said numerous times before, you're one of the few swarm launchers I've ever feared because you actually use tactics and teamwork. I'm just disheartened by the state of things and I'm just counting down the days till the Destiny beta at this point. I'm just tired of this constant teeter totter that is DUST and I honestly just want off at this point. It's too much. Also, I came to DUST for Drones and massive planets, both of which will never happen in DUST I understand. If I had the IRL money I'd be on Destiny too when it hits.... unfortunately it's likely I'll be stuck in Dust until PS2 hits ps4..... There's so much wasted potential here, and so much capacity for community among the players, even with such a simple chat system setup. That in my opinion was the biggest success of CCP, putting this chat window system into an FPS game. If it weren't for it, this game wouldn't have lasted half as long. The connections that grew between the playerbase because of it is what has kept most of us here as long as we have been. And don't compliment me like that, you'll make me blush.... =( ^,_,^ )= You only need $5 to get into the Destiny Beta, assuming you have a PS4. I actually thought PS2 was already on PS4, maybe I'll check it out on PC after all. I'm just getting a little bitterness out before I wander away from the game and forums again. I used to be this wicked fan of CCP and would talk them up to everyone and now I can't even stomach the thought of CCP lately. They have entirely turned me away. There are just too many awesome, high quality games coming down the pipe for me to care anymore. NO MANS SKY HAVE MY BABIES!!!! Oh, and I have to buy an Xbox One for one game, which upsets me.....Phantom Dust is coming back....other than Morrowind, that was probably the best Xbox game I ever played, and it was $20 brand new. I am so god damn pumped for that game. My disability payments just ended, so I'm jobless and pennyless. 5$ to me is like 20 packs of ramen, not a beta code. I have a ps4 I got with income taxes though, so ps2 is within my grasp. I shudder to think that Xbox might actually make a game I couldn't live without. Unless they come out with a Darksiders 3 or a Mercenaries 3 as an Xbox exclusive, there's no way I'd even entertain the idea. I'm very, VERY biased. PSN ID: AlbelNox2569 Cross Atu for CPM1 Winmatar Assault & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0
DUST Fiend Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 14490	Posted - 2014.06.27 22:51:00 - [175] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: My disability payments just ended, so I'm jobless and pennyless. 5$ to me is like 20 packs of ramen, not a beta code. I have a ps4 I got with income taxes though, so ps2 is within my grasp. I shudder to think that Xbox might actually make a game I couldn't live without. Unless they come out with a Darksiders 3 or a Mercenaries 3 as an Xbox exclusive, there's no way I'd even entertain the idea. I'm very, VERY biased. I've been on the poor train the past 2 years so I understand completely. People look at you like you have 3 heads when you tell them you have no income, at all. Diplomacy was my income >_< Getting a ****** job and starting to pay down debts, just hoping my back holds out. Phantom Dust was basically one of the coolest, most original games I've ever played, and I definitely don't want to miss out on a new one. Hopefully it's still a year or so away so I have plenty of time lol.
Temias Mercurial Knights Of Ender Proficiency V. 98	Posted - 2014.06.28 03:01:00 - [176] - Quote In the likelihood that we'll never receive a HAV air-based vehicles (or gunships) this is worth discussing... but people seem be to a tad too ignorant of intellectually based and objective conversation. An idea and possible explanation to adjusting forge gun damage towards dropships could be calculated into kinetic force from the forge projectile. As the dropship is airborne, the kinetic damage could possibly be reduced, as it is not being slammed into the ground. With this, dropships may need to be shoved in the direction of the launched forge projectile (not bounced around like swarms, just moved in a single direction). In accordance to this, tanks and LAVS are more susceptible to forge gun damage, as the kinetic force is not dispersed into the air, but is absorbed through the vehicle and the ground, taking the full potential damage. Locking times for swarm launchers could be adjusted towards vehicle speed and type. Tanks, as a large vehicle, naturally will have short lock-on times, dropships would be longer, and LAVS could be a pain to do so. However, this should only apply when the vehicle is moving. A default lock-on time can be applied for stationary vehicles. To clarify, even if a tank is moving faster than a non-stationary LAV, the LAV will still have a longer lock-on time, which is in accordance to it's type. A default time can be applied towards vehicle types, and their speed simply stack onto or multiply them (nothing beyond 2 or 3 more seconds). This could present new skills and varients for both weapons, such as increased missile speed and decreased lock-on time when a target has achieved a certain speed (sounds goofy, but think of it as a temporary power-up that requires a prerequisite). Thoughts?
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 11314	Posted - 2014.06.28 03:07:00 - [177] - Quote The more I think about it....the less I think anything will actually change in terms of ADS gameplay. If you will indulge me for a second and suggest that AV is not balanced against ADS as it is designed to directly combat tanks.... the only ways of balancing it aside from the varying lock on timers for swarms is to start applying specifically designated roles for AV weapons. However when you consider that an Anti Dropship weapons will need to be designed when the split emerges the weapon will do tis job effectually against Dropships and no other targets, in the end you will still be downed in 2-3 shots...... If you seek resistances for your vehicle on the grounds that you have less total HP and swarms are balanced against HAV all you are doing is seeking to make ADS the HAV of the Skies essentially in my mind make them the most OP vehicle ever to have existed in this game...... HAV durability on a vehicle that can fly....... Correct me if I am wrong because that is how this thread has been conveyed to me.... I haven't actually been able to find a Rhadamanthus post where he expresses options on what he wants. " We need to reclaim their fates and envelop them in ours. And we need to love them, no matter how much it hurts."
Riptalis Horizons' Edge Proficiency V. 28	Posted - 2014.06.28 06:24:00 - [178] - Quote For my Python I would like more PG & CPU with an extra High slot module. That would be nice. Or at least just the increase of PG & CPU. Logistics ak.0 ADS Pilot PSN: Riptalis
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 298	Posted - 2014.06.28 07:14:00 - [179] - Quote Not being a vehicle person, this entire conversation is a bit lost to me. However, It seems I am not the only one confused. Judge, your OP post may be clear to you, but I think you need to clarify further what your getting at, preferably with a proposed solution to the problem. You know, CCP Rattati absolutely loves spreadsheets and numbers
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 2347	Posted - 2014.06.28 07:40:00 - [180] - Quote Regis Blackbird wrote: Not being a vehicle person, this entire conversation is a bit lost to me. However, It seems I am not the only one confused. Judge, your OP post may be clear to you, but I think you need to clarify further what your getting at, preferably with a proposed solution to the problem. You know, CCP Rattati absolutely loves spreadsheets and numbers The conversation has gone all over the place. What is has shown is that people don't quite understand vehicle HP/EHP/Resistance and how it has been and is being used as a balance tool. I know how much each missile does for each swarm build. I also know the shield to armour crossover damage of a swarm missile. This particular value of 259 damage (minmando), as a result of a tanks base 1200 armour is one large cause of balance problems. This threshold itself is very important but I am not sure how many people are aware of it. This is where adding or subtracting as little as 50 points from Armour can keep a tank alive for 1 whole volley more. This is why the tank vs dropships issue is rally important, because an incubus has 960 shields. I have looked thorough this thread and the forums, and have not seem the correct damage numbers anywhere. People have strong opinions, but need more information. My video on it, sitting on my desktop, is pretty boreing. I wonder how many people would care to watch another math filled video? Judge For CPM 1 youtube Twitter @Judge_EVELegion



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